>Baton Pass Clause: Players cannot have more than one Pokémon

>strong woman
>straight OP
>competitive pokemon

Enjoy playing against Scolipede Smeargle Espeon chains.

So does Ninjask fall under this?

>Speed Boost ability
>Baton Pass
>Swords Dance

>>28255572

How isn't this doable?

>look mom I posted the exact same thread from a few days ago

>>28255591
Yes, scolipede too

>>28255722
But Speed Boost is an ability, not a move.
Do Smogtards even play the game?

>>28255793
They don't know how to explain their bullshit rules correctly

>tfw baton passing was the only niche Torchic had in LC
>tfw you can't use your favorite Pokémon anymore
Thanks smogon, you fucking cunt.

>>28255546
k verlisfag, time to go to bed.

If you don't like Smogon's rules, you're not forced to play by them.

>>28255847

I don't play by them and I've never had an issue with a baton pass team.

>>28255819
LC doesn't have the Baton Pass clause if I'm not mistaken.

>>28255546
I don't get it, last time I played, baton pass wasn't a viable team comp, and why is the clause so specific ?

>>28255919
When I tried to play time ago the clause was active for LC too. Glad they change it.

Espeon is entirely responsible for this. There are a million ways to disrupt a BP chain. The problem is that Espeon's Magic Bounce negates a very large chunk of the most accessible and broadly applicable methods: Prankster Taunt, Phazing, and Hazing. There ARE still methods- Scarf Ditto is a good example- but Espeon became such an overcentralizing figure that Smogon decided to find a way to nerf it.

They did very fucking poorly with that ban, quite honestly, but their reasoning WAS sound.

>>28256051
>problem was espeon
>ban baton pass and not espeon
This is just stupid

>>28256051
SmogonBird destroys BP teams too, since you can just ignore their speed boosts and OHKO Ninjas / Scolipiede / Smeargle / Espeon

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>>28255847
actually yes i am if i want to play with all my friends and everyone else who plays Pokemon I know

>>28256252
>>you're not forced
>yes I am
>if I want to play with friends

>>28256207
If they get off a single Iron Defense on Scolipede you've lost.

>>28256207
Unless Scolipede gets up an Iron Defense boost on the turn you switch the burd in. Then a Porsect for an extra Speed Boost turn, BP to Espeon, dude Stored Power lmao. That CAN be outplayed with a Flare Blitz on the BP turn, granted.

>>28256099
Don't forget.
>Gothitelle was broken as fuck
>Ban Shadow Tag instead of Gothitelle

>>28256322
It was the inverse of the exact problem they had with Speed Boost Blaziken. The problem was in the exact combination of Pokemon and Ability, not in the Ability or the Pokemon on their own. Banning either one broadly is fucking retarded. They can't even say WELL WE WANT TO DO SIMPLE BANS anymore after this fucking BP debacle.

I love Smogon's tiering system which allows me to successfully use the Pokemon I like against those of similar power, but their bans are fucking moronic. It's obvious that the people who run it don't have the slightest fucking clue what they're doing, and only the automated usage stats are successful in moderating the systems.

>>28256207
Baton pass team:
>Scolipede: Iron defence/sub/protect/pass @ mental herb
>Smeargle: Quiver dance/spore/ingrain/pass @ focus sash
>Espeon: Sub/Pass/Calm mind/Stored power @ Leftovers
>Vaporeon: Acid Armor/Sub/Scald/Pass @ Leftovers
>Sylveon: Hyper Voice/Sub/Pass/Calm Mind @ Leftovers
>Zapdos: Sub/Thunderbolt/Whirlwind/Charge @ Leftovers.

>S-Smogonbird beats them all I swear guiz

>>28256300
>That CAN be outplayed with a Flare Blitz on the BP turn, granted.
this does the same damage as brave bird why would it do anything. Besides they're passing to Zapdos here.

>>28256322
Something something ghothorita did the same thing something something shadow tag is the issue less the pokemon (which is a shitmon otherwise)
RIP wobb though. Nigga didn't need to die for this.

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The most effective way of disrupting a BP chain is instant brute force. Always has been, always will be. Really skilled BP players can overcome it, but it's difficult. It's really hard to set up when you're getting punched in the face all the time, and the vast majority of BP mons are crazy frail before the boosts.

Of course, since stall teams get rekt by BP it had to get nerfed. The sad thing is, the whole thing had the simplest solution: ban scolipede or ban espeon.

Without Scolipede, they have to rely on nice things like ninjask, or even Combusken to use speed boost, which makes them crumble even harder under offensive pressure. Without Espeon, they're hella vulnerable to phazing, and one good link break makes them cannon fodder.

This ban is one of the many reasons 6th gen Smogon was a gigantic train wreck. Glad to see it go, but I don't have hopes for 7th gen

>>28256322

Gothorita also exists. And yes, people did test thing out. It wasn't all just theory.

>>28256361
Let me clarify. You can outplay a pass to Espeon with a Flare Blitz. Lacking the priority, it will go after the BP and hit Espeon on the switch-in, weakening it enough to finish with a priority Brave Bird. If they have a Zapdos to pass to, your Birb is fucked, but you can at least Whirlwind it out with a Sashed Skarm.

>>28256387
and the moment skarm comes out, espeon goes in.

>>28256394
Which is fine, as you just negated all their boosts.

>>28256365
>rely on nice things
That should be "niche" things. You could probably tell by context though

>>28256403
Are you fucking retarded

>>28256403
oh shoot I forgot to put baton pass on the zapdos didn't I, anyhow zapdos does learn baton pass.

>>28256426(me)
>>28256429
Ok I can see >>28256403 's mistake now. Also ingrain

You can't make this shit up.

Smogon fags defend defend defend. Really, what were the usage stats?

>>28256426
I believe he thinks you meant that they had to hard switch into Espeon as opposed to BPing to him.

Though in this case, you'd have to fuck up your play to even get skarmory in there

>>28256440
Ingrain passes through BP? Jesus feck.

>>28256445
when it got popular? 95% of all teams were identical.

>>28256445
"That's just the trouble with all you morons. You never want to discuss anything. That's the way you can always tell a moron. They never want to discuss anything intelligent"

-Salinger

>>28256445
>Smogon fags defend defend defend.
We're stalling the discussion :^)

>>28256453
That's the thing that really makes it officially broken

>>28256455
This was entirely because everyone dickrode Denisss's BP team into oblivion, even though only he had the skills to properly utilize it.

I do recall hearing that that was his plan from the get go though. He got gud at BP in order to get it banned.

>>28256481
The absolute madman.

>>28256481
Except it took almost zero skill to use his team to get to 1650, which is all that really mattered.

>>28256500
1650 isn't even good though. That's like the point where you get semi competent people instead of complete retards

>>28256518
1650 IS the point where statistics start being recorded however. Which is why I used that.

>>28256526
I thought it was 1850, or did they change it recently? I quit Smogon once Mega Mawile got banned.

>>28256544
it's been 1650 ever since they had a minimum elo for stats.

>>28256567
What the hell was the 1850 metric then? Tiering? Eh, I'm probably just misremembering something. I'm taking your word for it however.

I know they used to always take action if one team comp got too dominant. Like how they fucked up Deo-S/Bisharp hyper offense cause it was always the same handful of mons.
Damn if that wasn't some of the most fun I've ever had in a fight though

>>28256594
1850 is just there because they can, not usually any different.

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>>28256603
Oh. Welp. Fuck it then. Thanks for the education

Fuck rules use any poke you want with any move. Rules are for losers. TEAM ROCKET

>>28256703
Team Rocket always loses.

>>28256718
That's just Jesse and James and manga team rocket not shit ass anime

>>28256252
>2012+4
>Still letting your friends dictate how you play Pokémon

>>28256758
I beat their asses four times over four generations.

>>28256812
Again the non manga team rocket. Read the comic and the cool team rocket that has more than one gym and legendary birds and shit

>>28256365
I disagree. There's a reason Iron Defence Scolipede into Calm Mind Espeon was the BP go to - it directly counters the strategy you've stated.

>>28256823
>literally using PokeSpe to argue any kind of anything
Please end yourself.

>>28256703
You've never seen the evil that comes with no rules though.

>Prankster Liepard
Moveset:
spore (through assist at 100% chance)
swagger
Foul play
substitute

swagger, substitute, and spore all have priority because of prankster so your speed doesn't matter.
They heal with leftovers while you sit there sleeping and killing yourself. They can foul play to make it go faster.
You can't touch them because of the substitute priority.

>tfw this is allowed in battle spot.

>>28256871
Knows what pokespe means and you want me to die you useless category naming faggot

>>28255546
>a Pokémon cannot have Baton Pass while also a move that boosts Speed and a move that boosts another stat.
Isn't that the entire point of Baton Pass?

>>28256952
>instead of banning prankster+swagger they banned swagger as a whole because no complex bans
Sasuga Smogon.

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How many times must we discuss this bullshit? Do you shitters just want to complain about bans without actually reading into them?

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-110739069

>>28257124

>This fucking match again

Not only is it a SINGLE match out of all the matches that have ever been played, but the only reason he lost (At least so convincingly) is because he was an absolute retard and put Charizard in on Scolipede.

>>28255546
>Implying smogonfags browses and discusses on other boards than their forum

Smogon is a huge circlejerk were the meta is defined by who played what, they are the true meaning of meta herd, dont lose your time trying to trigger them, they will never defend anything outside their shitty safe space

BP ban is too contentious and basically bait.

Smogon's actual fuckup is banning pokemon that can run too many good sets.

>>28255546
I can''t even follow their tiering anymore. They now have one below never used and one above uber and what does borderline mean and why are there FOUR OF THEM?

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Can someone please decipher what
>>28259327 is trying to say

>>28258943
I'm sure you're more well-versed in the game than a person with 2000 points.

He had to go out to Charizard because the BP player could easily PP stall the Quagsire and the Amoonguss as boosting moves have a ridiculous amount of PP.

Going to copypaste something another anon said regarding the issue:

>No, he played as well as he could. You don't see how fragile the stall player was to a Baton Pass at potentially any moment after the game-winning chain started. Sylveon threatened the Quagsire and going to Amoonguss was a risk each time because of the potential to Baton Pass to Espeon, giving him a free Sub or Stored Power. The stall player paid for when Quag ended up getting knocked down to half. He probably could have sacked something else, but was probably predicting the Sub or Calm Mind, which would have been plays to expect too.

>Not to mention, the BP chains expend a shit ton of PP since each Pass is 64, so he could have stalled the stall player out if he wanted. That's why the stall player decided to be a bit more aggressive with Charizard.

>And the reason he stayed in with Chansey to keep hitting was that a wrong move in switching to Quag or Amoong on the turn of a Baton Pass into Espeon would be checkmate either way.

I don't think people realize that
>Smogon tried less restrictive bans but those failed to work
>The current Baton Pass clause was created by dEnIsSsS HIMSELF.

>>28259973
PU is for the absolute lowest of the low. Kinda necessary given how many Pokémon there are now.

BL are the banlists for every tier below OU. Staraptor is not used enough to be considered OU. But Staraptor has been deemed far too powerful for UU. So it's been banned to BL. You can use it in OU and higher. BL2 IS the banlist for RU, and so on.

I have the feeling that most people who complain about the clauses never actually were in a format where a fuckload of people were using what got banned.
Fuck, I used some of the many banned things in ORAS and XY myself, and voted to ban one of them.

>>28260228
A good chunk of people who complain about Smogon do so to fit in or to make themselves feel better about the way they play. There may be bans I disagree with at times, clauses I disagree with (putting Endless Battle clause in Anything Goes is idiotic), and methods of going about dealing with a particular problem I disagree with, but it tends to be that the changes made by Smogon are beneficial, if not necessarily optimal.

>>28260228

The problem is that Smogon can't justify their ruleset anymore.

Is BP bulletproof in 6v6? Maybe. Should it have been gutted? Probably. Should it have taken the form of such an extremely specific ban that takes double the steps to solve the problem and THEN ends up ruining a niche for two other Pokemon in the process? I don't think that's acceptable and exactly what Smogon claims to be against.

>>28260659
See >>28260089

If BP could have been stopped with simpler bans, those bans would have been enacted. They fucking tried to limit it and dEnIsSsS kept thwarting it.
The first BP ban was limiting BP to three Pokémon on a team. When that didn't work, it was limited to just one Pokémon on a team. When THAT didn't work they finally implemented the Speed + other stat BP ban that dEnIsSsS himself recommended as the only way to stop Baton Pass completely.

Please do your research before you disparage Smogon.

>>28256252
>if i want to play with all my friends and everyone else who plays Pokemon I know
You mean you don't all play on cart together like actual self respecting individuals?

>>28255546
Wasn't this a thread last week?

>>28260741
>it was limited to just one Pokémon on a team. When THAT didn't work

Why didn't that work? Because it wasn't shit?

>>28255546
It exists because baton chain teams are too overpowered in a singles meta.

it has nothing to do with Smogon, you retard. Smogon doubles exists and it doesn't have the BP clause.

>>28256952
And? I have seen a lot of bullshit, but that's just life, i use evasion, baton pass and i don't care, if i see a liepard like this(i use dark void mewostic) i will just salute him and break through his defense, it's just part of the game.

This remind me a team in pokemon Stadium 2 where they give swagger to all their poke and move that reduce defense and thunder wave and other bullshit, it's just life.

>>28256322
>mediocre pokemon
>broken ability
>lel gothitelle is broken

What did he mean by this?