There will never be a villain this great in pokemon again.

I am getting tired of edgy jrpg villains in pokemon.

>>28114533

Literally autistic.

Thats not Ghetsis.

>>28114533
so tell me OP
How did he form Team Galactic and how did he get away with telling them nothing but lies from the beginning?
Because we all know if anyone heard his real plan, they'd peace out.

>>28114550
Blame Masuda.

>>28114533

I'm fine with it, since his greatness was the smallest in the series!

>>28114574

Charisma. Anyone will believe bullshit if you present it in a believable way. Unless you're that cynical; which members of Team Galactic were the complete opposite of. He probably told them that they were going to be rich or some shit.

>>28114533
>what is your boy guzma

>>28114621
he has literally zero charisma
the guy is an emotionless robot hell-bent on world destruction

Every other villain I get, Cyrus just makes no sense nor his team.

>>28114581
why don't we kill him instead?

>>28114621
He has no charisma.

>>28114551
>>28114735
The guy is a good guy, just misguided.
He got a Crobat, but dont tell me he got it from a grunt. They probably just use pokemon as their tools, while Cyrus says he uses the power of Pokemon for himself, he clearly has emotions. He gets angry after he lost, he is sad that he can't live in his "perfect" universe without emotion, which you might think would lead to a paradox, but it actually does not. Emotions are the main reason for conflict, war and pain, but while there are good things you could not experience without emotion, the bad outweigh the good heavily. The man may or may not be misguided or just anguished and dissapointed by life, see the story from his grandpa.
Inb4 my name is not important

>>28114735
That is so wrong, but I will explain.

First, Cyrus is -not- an emotionless robot. He WANTS to become an emotionless robot, but he admits at the very end of the game that he isn't one, that the very emotions he despises he still holds inside of him, and he will stop at nothing to rip them out of himself.

Cyrus' goal isn't world destruction, and it isn't even to become a god (in Platinum anyway; in DP he's more the standard "all the power for me" type of villain): Cyrus just wants to remake the universe i the way he feels is "perfect". No emotions in his mind means no strife or flaws, because everybody will act logically.

Cyrus' entire plan is based around the flaws of emotions: he plays up Team Galactic's most basic sentiments of superiority, of wanting to be better than everyone else, and wanting to have the entire world just for them. Cyrus is just feeding Galactic members what they want to hear, just like any cult leader, promising them they'll receive their just rewards for being so much better than anybody else, when in reality, he just needs -these- particular idiots because he -knows- they're too stupid to question or figure out his master plan.

>>28114533
Yes there will. Cyrus is coming back.

>>28114925
I would not go so far as to call Cyrus a good guy, since his ultimate goal is still to deprive people of their emotions regardless of what they want, and he has no qualms in torturing pokemon to reach that goal.

However, what I find the most interesting thing about Cyrus is: he is both a massive hypocrite, and the perfect justification for his plans all at the same time.

Hatred is what drives Cyrus. Hatred for his emotions, hatred for the emotions of others, hatred for a world he deems incomplete and flawed. The emotions he tries so hard to ignore are the same ones that keep him going forward with his plan, so he's no better than all the people he finds disgusting for succumbing to their emotions, because he's doing the exact same thing.

Yet, it's because of those emotions that he's become so dangerous, not just to the planet, but the entire universe. So, technically, he's not -wrong- when he says emotions are the cause of strife and conflict, he's living proof of just how badly emotions can screw somebody up and drive them to ridiculously dangerous feats, for themselves and everyone around them.

>>28114533
I still love how he lost in DP, all because of Saturn letting you release the lake trio.

>>28114533
Literally the worst plot in pokemon
gen IV jumped the shark
even worse than gen III

>>28114925

He was definitely not a good guy by any means but I sorta see where you're coming from

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>>28114533
You are all wrong, he just wanted a quiet life.
Daily reminder he is STILL floating in the Distortion World

>>28114533
I liked Lysandre. He believed in his ideal to the extent of willingly becoming the villain to reach a better world after his philanthropy failed.

>>28115720
In platinum you can't leave the place until he tells you too or something.

Also he just walks away in DP like whatever man

Platinum he's stuck in hell forever because he was too stubborn for your help

>>28115911
>stuck in hell forever

Both the playable character and Cynthia are able to leave the Distortion World just fine after facing Giratina. There's really nothing implying Cyrus was trapped inside afterwards.

Granted, you can argue Giratina's power is what allowed the other characters to leave, so it can either keep Cyrus' trapped if it's still in the Distortion World, or leaving it with the trainer causes the door to close, but it's open enough that Cyrus' return is still possible.

Seriously this. Cyrus is an emotioned run human deep with flaws that wants to erase everythinf and anything that resembles humanity so that it can be a cold caculated world without reason. His self exile to the Distortion World is also the only time a villain sort of achieves his goals, that was the sourest god damn happy ending jn a game ever. Yes you technically beat the evil guy who wants to destroy the world, but the smug mofo got exactly what he wanted and you just leave the place without any sort of closure or joy in this event. I pray to god Platinum sequels never happen, the thought of a truly emotionless Cyrus fueled by the power of the Distortion World is downright terrifying.

>>28115998
Also forgot to mention this is why B2W2 is so good, Ghetsis becoming a psychopath calable of murder only to turn into a babbling loon after his second defeat is in the same WHAT THE FUCK TIER as Cyrus, its almost a Pyrrhic Victory despite their efforts to kill you. Its why Lysandre's demise falls flat, being crushed underneath the rubble of his own devices is so cliched compared to what thw last 3 games before it brought, except for HGSS. And even then the Celebi Event is some good mindfuckery. Is there even anyone left alive for an Evil Team meetup besides friendship forever Maxie and Archie?

>>28115820

And if you're going by the anime he's either floating around in his empty new world or dead because it collapsed on itself.

>>28115998
I honestly don't quite get why so many people have this thought that Cyrus got what he always wanted, and is happy just chilling out in the Distortion World.

If Cyrus only wanted to be alone he would've bought a cabin in the woods, or built himself an underground lab where he could live as a recluse with his machines until he died.

Yes, different interpretations and all, but the way I see it, Cyrus isn't just a guy who wanted to escape the world. Maybe at some point he was, but by the time Platinum rolls around, he's driven right off that canyon into insanity.

>"Why should I run and hide from the world and have to wait quietly? My aim is to rid our world of the vague and incomplete thing we call spirit. By freeing ourselves of that, our world can be made complete. That is my justice! No one can interfere!"

This line pretty shows what was explained earlier: Cyrus isn't thinking logically anymore. Whatever internal logical that drove him before, it has long since broken him to the point that his sole purpose is to achieve his perfect world. A world, mind you, where not only everyone else is a spiritless being, but also himself. Even in the Distortion World, he'll still feel happiness, anger, boredom, etc, so he hasn't really reached his ultimate victory. It's why he promises to return at the very end of the game, because he's not happy and doesn't feel like he's won. There's still emotion and spirit somewhere out there, and he won't feel complete until it's all removed.

At least, that's my interpretation.

>>28116185
Yes, but when taking into account how the series never returns to a character in the sense that sequels are nearly nonexistant, Cyrus is going to be stuck there, plotting for eternity. At the very least he is in the Distortion World waiting in self exile, never lnowing when that return will happen. The only way its going to be literally open ended is if they takenthe multiverse to heart, and DS-Verse Cyrus enters the Megaverse. Something I am not entirely against to be honest with, would be insane to see a villain with that knowledge.


DP Remakes, Cyrus is revealed without any redesign, looking a bit ragged. Trailers have him mention how this all feels too familiar. How fucking hype would that be?

>>28117756
>sequels are nearly nonexistant
I wouldn't think so pessimistically.

GSC were sequels to RBY, and BW got direct sequels with BW2.

Granted, yes, those were directly followed by one another, while DPPt is years old, but the possibility is still there! Maybe... Hopefully...

As hype as I am for some sort of return by Cyrus, I'm equally nervous. It's very easy to ruin what makes Cyrus such a good villain, either by having him act like an idiot, or give him a half-assed redemption arc or something.

In any other media I'd be excited to see his return. In Pokémon, I'm much more wary.

>>28114735
Being an antisocial sociopath has no bearing on your charisma>>28114925
>The guy is a good guy, just misguided
No, the game makes no indication this is how yo uare meant to percieve him. They give him motivation for his actions but that doesn't make him a good guy with bad means. What he wanted was "bad" to the world at large even if he thought it was for the best. Lysandre is the good guy with bad means. Many characters in the game agree with his issues and what he stands he for but think he is in the wrong for dealing with it the way he does. Cyrus has a crobat because they gave him a crobat. Not every crobat is significant like Silver's

>>28114565
Came here to post this.

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>>28114533

Pokespe Cyrus is a miracle of the universe.

>>28114533
Lysande was better

>>28119736
Best Trio. I really loved their dynamic together.

>>28119736
Dia is a god amongst men, fucking slaps the shit out of Cyrus like its nobodies business. Seroously can't wait for the Pokespe remake chapter, you kust known they are going to make the Pt sequel we deserve.

>>28117756
>DS-verse Cyrus meets Mega-verse Cyrus

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>>28114735
>>28114918
You get to see one of his rousing speeches in the game. Did you even play it?

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There will never be another villain THIS great in pokemon again.

>anime version excluded but everything anime related is dumbed down to near down syndrome levels anyways

He was in charge of a well established crime ring, not just some thrown together terrorist group or some cult. Raked in sick bank in the Pokemon black market, laundered the cash flow through his own casino like a boss, dabbled in creating super pokemon using the most advanced scientific techbology, AND ran a gym on the side.

Show me another pokevillain that has done half as much as Giovanni.

>>28114565
>>28118941
Cyrus had an unrealistic goal but his plans were brilliant and effective.

Ghetsis had a more realistic goal but his plans were almost completely retarded and just waiting to blow up in his face. He was a hyper-competent idiot.

>>28123433
He was certainly the most sane of them.

>>28123433
Well, if you want to compare feats:

>Cyrus
>assembles a surprisingly devoted cult
>gets rich enough, whether by criminal means or not, to build his own headquarters
>successfully captures three legendary pokemon
>uses those three pokemon to successfully capture two more legendary pokemon

He pretty much would have won right then and there if Giratina hadn't shown up and interfered as a forced deus ex machina.

Giovanni is definitely one of the most successful criminals in Pokemon (although Ghetsis was rich enough to afford a -castle-, so who knows what was going on there), but in terms of what he actually accomplished within the game itself, Giovanni gets pushed around more regularly by the protagonist than any other team boss, to the point where he just quits being evil because he can't beat you.

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>All this talk about villains and their C O M P L E X motives

I hope the complexity skips our boy and Team Skull are just a bunch of thugs.

>>28123433
>gets beaten by a 10 year old, realizes he'd rather be training Pokemon again and fucks off to a waterfall
Not gonna lie, I'd love to enjoy training Pokemon so much that I throw away my crime syndicate.

>>28123895
There's definitely more to them than just 'thugs'
>Guzma was told he could never be a trial leader, is still bitter about it
I don't think he'll C O M P L E X to the level of "I want to destroy the universe using the legendary's power" but he's not JUST a gangbanger. He probably formed Team Skull to make a point and prove his worth and ends up fucking around with the legendary to that end.

>>28123887
>Ghetsis was rich enough to afford a -castle-, so who knows what was going on there
He stole N's inheritance by adopting him, or something like that. N is the rightful king, Ghetsis just used his wealth as his caretaker by claiming it was for the good of N and then manipulated him when he was old enough to actually rule.

>>28124325
Wasn't the official story that N was an orphan Ghetsis found in the woods?

I don't think it's ever implied N was in any way royalty, that's just what Ghetsis wanted him and all of Plasma to believe to make him a Jesus figure.

>>28124433
It's also implied that N is descendant of the king that ruled the underwater ruins, who could also understand pokémon. His most faithful subjects genuinely treat and refer to him as royality.

It's all vague.

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>>28114533
False.

>>28124573
>It's all vague.

The biggest problem when trying to decipher pokémon lore.

Anyway, I was unaware of that. It's pretty interesting, actually. I guess that's a good explanation of how Ghetsis got so filthy rich.

Also let's not forget Lysandre in the list of rich villains, who was already a very famous and wealthy inventor and philanthropist in his own right.

I never understood why people like Ghetsis so much. Seriously, what the fuck was his endgame?

Everyone would release their Pokemon, Ghetsis would have all the power and take over the region, and then what? What would he do about N slapping his shit with the legendary dragon? How would he prevent people from just capturing more Pokemon? Someone explain this to me, if there is an explanation.

>>28127383
I don't think Ghetsis is all that great either, but you have to keep one thing in mind when it comes to him: the guy is patient as hell.

I'm assuming Ghetsis ultimate goal, after N successfully got all the pokemon in the world released, would be to find some way to control the legendary dragon himself like he ended up doing in BW2. Until then, he'd just be chilling being the second most powerful man on the planet, acting as N's eyes, ears and hands throughout the land, but keeping his true shady deals hidden from him as he's done for years before.