THE GREAT DEBATE

DORAGON KUROU

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>>27989516
They are both lovely

>>27989516
Y is cooller, X is edgier

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>>27989516
Charizard is the best mon

Y, because sleek features and encourages you to finally use Charizard's special attack.

>>27989516
Y is the natural one
X is the gene manipulation one

>>27989516
Y because the shiny looks really nice with the velvet wings.

>>27989516
They should've had Y with X's typing. That's the only reason X is favored.

>>27989665
Everyone wants that typing, anon. It's elder god tier.

Unfortunately this means that any other pokes that get it naturally will be shit tier to stop them from being overpowered.

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Charizard Thread?

Y

Flamethrower
Roost
Solar beam
Focus blast

>>27989516

X battles Y, X wins.
But overall Y > X

The one with DORAGON KUROU

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>>27989909
>X battles Y
>Y used Dragon Pulse first turn, does 93% damage
>X sets up DD for dat OHKO
>Y uses Quick Attack
Nothing personell kid

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>>27990092
>meme situational battle

>>27990092
> Charizard
> Quick Attack

>>27990129
Mega Charizard Y has higher speed it'll always hit first and if it's a super effective sp. attack it'll get OHKO on X.

>>27990493
> Y has higher speed

Both Y and X, AND Normal Zard have base 100 Speed. It's a matter of Nature, EV spread, IVs and speed tie if one has to outspeed the other.

>>27989516
Y easily. It looks like a charizard, but evolved further.
i hate it when evos disregard the prevo design and just takes a full 180, instead of building on the features that are already there.

>>27989546
This.

>>27989546
This

They both serve different purposes, so comparing them makes no sense

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>>27990129
>not having a gen IV event Charizard with Belly Drum
weak

>>27990092
>not retaliate

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>>27989516
I was more into Y at first because of muh natural progression. But X has the typing, ability, stats, and look that I like more.

Also I'm a dragonfag and I've always bred and run Dragon Dance Charizards in the past, so it only makes sense that I prefer X.

X becuase it has incredible typing and ability. Its like a Garchomp with dragon dance and it cant get burned.

>>27989891
>Roost
>not using Charizard as a full offense pokemon

>>27989516
Y is better. Gets boost for fire attacks with Drought and does better at doubles and keeps it's typing.

X is for braindead genwunners.

>>27990092
Can a single DD really let X OHKO Y?

>>27991968
Charizard itself is for genwunners the mega doesn't matter

X is for shiny-fags.

>>27991968
>X is for braindead genwunners.

I bet you had a lot of friends growing up.

>>27989516
X since it triggers animefags
FURAMOU BURST

megazard x is a lot weaker due to its typing.

>>27992011
Why would you doubt? It almost does that without the DD.
Y has paper thin Defense stat, while X has paper thin Sp Defense.

>>27989516
I prefer Y in most ways. X is cool I guess.

>>27992295
Are you stupid?

>>27992295
>>27992295
Yeeeah you don't know what you're talking about.

Y is much more frail in terms of physical defense, can be OHKO'd by a very common attack type (rock), which is especially common in the format that it shines in (doubles).

X's typing allows for it to get a lot of use out of both of its STAB attacks, has no 4x weakness, and can afford to run bulkier sets, and sets that include boosting moves, which Charizard Y cannot.

X is far more versatile and by no means weaker overall.

Don't get me wrong, they're both good, but to say X is "a lot weaker" is foolish.

>>27989891
I ran solar beam, air Slash, heat wave and protect on my doubles zard-y. I used to have fun pairing him with my Exeggutor (when I didn't fuck up and get punished)

X is my favorite in the whole Charmander line. Y makes for a better shiny, though.

>>27992786
Not to mention a better ability.

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Y to deal with all those pesky rotom-W

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>>27989516
I like the fact that X is more bulky and with more usable arms.

It basically has no flaws.

>>27993140
Being weak to Electric?

>>27990493
>Mega Charizard Y has higher speed
Who told you this?

>>27993906
Solar Beam son.

>>27992011
X could probably one shot without it.

>>27993952
To be fair, Zard Y is much more likely to run Timid than X is to run Jolly.

>>27993971
Doesn't change the fact that they both have the same speed stat

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both

at the same time

>>27993966
Flare Blitz in the sun kills about 12% of the time I think. But that's Adamant.

>>27994001
Is that taking into account tough claws and Y's lower defence?

>>27994016
Yes, of course. Y isn't THAT frail lads. Making me calc shit on my phone...

252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Charizard Y in Sun: 256-302 (86.1 - 101.6%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

There. So if Zard Y knows Dragon Pulse and is Timid AND Zard X doesn't set up, Y wins. Very situational.

>>27993956
It will never OHKO a Rotom-W max HP.

>>27989891
>attack missed

This is why I hate Y and also Noivern.

>>27989516
Y because its not a fatty

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>>27989516
Fucking perfect

>>27994103
>There. So if Zard Y knows Dragon Pulse and is Timid AND Zard X doesn't set up, Y wins. Very situational.

So if the standard X faces the standard Y, X wins. One Dragon Dance + Dragon Claw is all it takes, guaranteed barring crits and other nonsense.

>252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Dragon Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard X: 248-292 (83.5 - 98.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
>+1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard Y in Sun: 352-414 (118.5 - 139.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

>>27989516
the cool one

>>27994335
X has that legendary vibe that Y has not, it's so normal.
I had my girlfriend trade me that Charizardite X since I had Y version for Yveltal. She likes Charizard Y anyway.

>>27994103
Jolly ZardX can guaranteed OHKO it with Outrage considering it's a 1vs1 scenario. It doesn't even need to use DD.

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> implying this isn't penultimate charizard

I like Y a lot more. X is just far too busy and more anatomically bad where Y is a big orange dragon with a long-ass tail.

>>27989516
the inevitable alolan charizard, of course

>>27994482
Except Shiny Charizard Y is purple. You just used the colors from Shiny Charizard, that is way darker.

>>27989516
Charizard Y's sleek appearance looks cooler than X's spikes. I really like those arm wings.

Why does Charizard X have equal sp.atk and atk when it's suppose to be a physical mon given it's ability? Why didn't they dump it into speed?

Has anyone even use a mixed Charizard X?

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>>27994218
I don't think you understand how much 159SPATK+120bp+1.5xSEDAMG+252SPATK investment actually means to even the most of the resilient Rotom W.

Let me tell you, it's a OHKO nearly every time unless you're holding one berry to reduce the SE damage, but let's be honest, why would you?

>>27989709
>elder god tier
>gets ravaged by ground, rock and dragon

not really no. if you're gonna have weakness to ground and no levitate might as well have dragon/steel.

>>27994959
>ravaged
Not really. X has pretty decent bulk.

And after a single boost it can take out most things that would threaten it with Super Effective attacks.

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>+6 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Quick Attack vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard Y: 278-328 (93.6 - 110.4%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO

Belly drum + Quick Attack ftw

Y

>X is great in singles.
>Y is just OK in singles.

>X is okay in doubles.
>Y is a BEAST in doubles.

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>>27994948
Except not, even on 0 SDef Rotom-W and with Modest Charizard. While Rotom-W does 122% minimum with Thunderbolt.

>>27994948
Use a calc, you stupid Flanders. It's never OHKO except on offensive Rotom-W.

>>27994998
>Y is a BEAST in doubles.
It's ok in doubles, at best. It was better in VGC15 with way less Mega Evolutions, but now you'll never going to waste your Mega slot on it when you can use creeps like Mega Salamence.

>>27994985
problem is, while it boosts others can boost as well.

i'm not gonna make all the calculations right now, but wouldn't a garchomp with speed/attack EV's, good nature and good i'v both outspeed and OHKO it with a single EQ? or an outrage?

and that's regular chomp, mega chomp, even though it's slower would very probably be a guaranteed OHKO with EQ with that 170 base atk. not to mention it has some good defense as well, so i'm not sure zard x would OHKO it without boosting first.

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>>27989516
They're both really good, but I just like smiting shit like an angry sun god with Y-Zard.

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>>27995186
Enjoy being raped by Talonflame, since your thin figure also means your defense. Charizard X not only has better typing and 2 useful STABs, but is also bulky and as fast.

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>>27995058
>level fifty
Don't play VGC.

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>>27995228
You need a bigger pic, Anon.

>>27995246
68% OHKO vs 100% OHKO from Rotom-W (that could just add like 16 EV in SpD if Charizard Y was a threat) is pretty far from "deal with".

Plus VGC is the official meta, I don't care about any personal ruleset you may use.

>>27995184
>while it boosts other can boost as well
You're going to have to explain this more. I mean, no kidding? That's like saying "This Pokemon can use Thunder Wave... but other Pokemon can use Thunder Wave as well..."

>i'm not gonna make all the calculations right now, but wouldn't a garchomp with speed/attack EV's, good nature and good i'v both outspeed and OHKO it with a single EQ? or an outrage?

Why would you leave it in if you haven't boosted yet and your opponent brings out Garchomp? Why would you not boost or eliminate the Garchomp first? I mean, that's Battling 101. Most Pokemon have counters. You eliminate the counters or at least set up first. The same way a Charizard Y generally loses against a Heatran. That doesn't mean Y is a weak Pokemon.

And to say "it gets ravaged by Ground and Dragon" but then the opponent needs one of the strongest Ground or Dragon (in this case both) in the entire game (while Charizard is unboosted) doesn't do anything for your argument.

>>27995287
I don't have to compensate.

>>27995360
>I don't care about any personal ruleset you may use.
There it is! He reveals his true colors.

90% of in-game battles are singles format. Battlespot Singles exists. Who says it has to be "muh tourney!"

Show me usage stats for Tbolt on Rotom. He runs Volt Switch far more often.

>>27995376
WHAT IS FOCUS BLAST

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>>27995360
>68% OHKO vs 100% OHKO
You mean 68% OHKO versus Rotom-W's 3HKO with Hydro Pump in the Sun. Don't use two different calcs to try to prove a point.
It's an OHKO after Stealth Rock, or any form of chip damage from something like, say, Landorus-Therian's U-Turn.

>VGC is the official meta
Okay, sure, we won't argue about this. But you know that the original poster said: "Mega Charizard Y, to deal with all the pesky Rotom-Ws".

Rotom-W is not being used in the current VGC format, nor was it used last year. If someone was referring to "all those Rotom-Washes", they're obviously fucking referring to OU.

Y is a much better design. X is just the shiny Charizard that we already had.

>>27995421
Do you even understand that it's not even important? You can't OHKO Rotom-W. The fact that you play with your own rules is just the cherry.

>>27995442
An unreliable 2HKO on most Heatran, and a 25% OHKO on an uninvested Heatran, assuming it hits. But sure, I'll give you Focus Blast, why not.

Now what does Y do against Blissey?

>>27992487
>>27992473
no you fucking tards

X has a double weakness to ice, and almost every team runs an icebeam or a blizzard.

also the the dragon typing makes it weak to other dragons, If I'm able to set up a Dragonite with a few DD's I can OHKO it no problem.

Sure Y can be OHKO by rock, but X has overall more weaknesses.

>>27989891
>roost
how do you use recovery moves effectively? i'm considering using air slash over this

>>27995685
>double weak to ice

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>>27995058
>VGC

>>27989516

Charizard Y would be perfect if its hands were like base Charizard/Charizard X's instead of degenerating into little nubs.

>>27995601
2 fire blast

>>27995724
oh fugg i keep forgetting that It's fire-dragon and not flying-dragon

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>>27995685

>X has a double weakness to ice

>>27995757
>252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Blissey in Sun: 202-238 (30.9 - 36.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

nah

Blastoise

>>27989516
>Y
Still has a ×4 weakness to rock, which is common, but when mega evolved, it turns sunny. Although the Weather Wars is no longer a thing, Charizard has access to Solar Beam, a 1 turn attack in the sun, which takes down 2 of its weaknesses. Unfortunately, if the opponent sets up stealth rocks, and Charizard has to be put into the battlefield, it's game over.
>X
Loses its ×4 weakness to rock, and its fire type makes fairy type moves do neutral damage. Even though Charizard gains a dragon typing, it unfortunately makes it weak to ground type moves and EQ is a very common move. But it does gain tough claws which increases its physical moves by ×1.3.
I think Mega Charizard X is the better choice since it gains it can take down things very well with tough claws and dragon dance.

>>27995727
(You)

Y was only used as a one trick pony to set up the sun. X is overall better, less used in doubles only because there are better (unbanned) Mega Evolutions and setup is more difficult.

>>27995376
>why would you leave it in if ...

maybe because you have no choice? i'm not talking about a full 6/6 battle and taking all the nuances into consideration, i was talking about 1v1 and purely in regards to chances to OHKO. and the fact that it's one of or the strongest counters to it around is irrelevant when garchomp is widely used, and since EQ is also used by lots of pokemon in all sorts of team.

there's also his weakness to rock, with stone edge being part of multiple movesets and let's not forget it's def is good but it's spdef is shit so all in all it really isn't as all-around godly as people make it to be.

as for boosting, the point was that it hardly makes him unstoppable (which is what it sounded like), when others will also be boosted or will already have hit it hard to then finish him with a prio move.

>>27996029
Most important thing is that has 2 STABs on a very good type combination. Fire+Dragon is almost unresisted and requires precise double types like Empoleon and Azumarill or Steel types with Fire immunity through trait.

Charizard Y basically has only 1 STAB since he doesn't learn good special Flying attacks, and his trait can only power up 1 move, unlike Tough Claws. The fact that you lose Life Orb makes his non-Fire attacks weaker than many other non-mega.

This is a really stupid question but are Mega Zard Y' arm wing things blue on the underside? Like you know, its actual wings?

>>27996190
Your initial comment was "it gets ravaged by its 3 weaknesses." You gave one example of a Pokemon it loses to 1v1. But there are plenty of Pokemon Charizard Y loses to 1v1 as well, which is the comparison we're making ITT.

It sounds to me like you're more concerned with the fact that people think "it's godly" than you are with actually making a sound argument. Because like it or not, X is one of the strongest Pokemon in the game. Not THE strongest, but certainly up there. There's no point in trying to make it sound weak, let alone weaker than Y.

>>27995985
>Blissie +256 sdefense

kek

>>27996337
i don't care about Y though. i get that the thread was about X vs Y, i was just arguing that X isn't all that. and while i only gave the example of garchomp, EQ and Stone edge are common enough for it to not have all-around free passes, and outrage and dragon pulse aren't all that rare either. dragon pulse being particularly problematic thanks to X's weak special def.

besides it really isn't "one of the strongest pokemon in the game". it's strong, very much so, but you gotta remember it's a mega, so it's expected to be strong, and in regards to that it's far from the best mega around, which actually makes it rather unimpressive if not for it's good ability and small amount of weaknesses, compared to something like mega salamence, which is arguably a better mega albeit more limited in use.

>>27989516

I like cool and dark colors, so X.

Don't really care otherwise.

>>27990092

>Blast Burn
>gg

All three of them are shit

>rotom-w
>being used
>ever

>>27991947

Don't blame him he copied that moveset from Smogon

>>27994482

>Second to last Charizard

what? Do you know what penultimate means?

>>27998114
The fuck? It's literally the most meta Rotom.

Ppl would like Y better if he had been pushed like X in every anime and the rest of fighting games