Can we discuss the cost-benefit relations of hp, def and sdef?

>>27940201
It depends on the severity. The likes of Shuckle can function despite having 20 hp and 230 defenses because the defenses outstrip the offensive stats of literally all pokemon. Mix with his awkward typing and he's in good shape.

Meanwhile Deoxys-D, while bulky is not incredibly durable in the long run because his defenses aren't higher than all offensive stats from the get go, and he has a vulnerable typing.

Generally speaking though, Health = Def + SpDef. This is why most bulk builds dump EVs into HP instead of into the defenses first.

>>27940336
>The likes of Shuckle can function despite having 20 hp and 230 defenses because the defenses outstrip the offensive stats of literally all pokemon

It really, really, really doesn't. The only string to Shuckle's bow is being able to set up Spider Web without dying to a lgiht breeze, but that doesn't make it good.

>>27940201
It's all largely moot unless you start off with this:
>Can the Pokémon easily heal up?
If not, then it doesn't matter, it will be a shit defensive Pokémon.

>>27940875
...Are you serious? Shuckle dying to a light breeze? You're joking, right?

Spede

>>27940201
Both types of spreads, high HP/low defenses and low HP/high defenses, can thrive depending on the stats themselves.

For example, Vaporeon and Alomomola have tremendous HP with very average defense, so they can take hits. Wigglytuff has tremendous HP with pisspoor defense so it feels weaker. Then you have shit like Hippowdon with both high HP and high defense, where attacks just bounce off. Blissey line is the special opposite. Cresselia is the best of both worlds, where nothing can really have a good shot at OHKOing it on the invested side barring I think Banded Escada lier.

High defenses low HP works similarly, with the floor limit for HP being like 50 to still function, with Shuckle being an extreme exception. Low HP is generally desired for Pain Split users since that's just the mechanics to their efficient recovery.

Like the other guy said, if you don't have reliable recovery, you're not really a wall anyway. The exceptions are setup mons that function very linearly.

>>27941350
He's exaggerating but Shuckle isn't as bulky as some people claim.

Something like LO Starmie can almost ohko it and 100 spatk isn't very impressive.

>>27941350
No he's not. Literally every offensive non can 2HKO Shuckle.

>>27940336
LOL are you saying Shuckle>Deoxys D?

>>27940201
There are pros and cons to each. Low HP with high defs means decreased HP recovery for the opponent through Leech Seed and a more effective Pain Split and a better resistance to draining moves. Just the opposite applies. Final Gambit is better on a Pokemon with a large HP stat, as is Wish passing. They also have a better resistance to Night Shade, Psywave, and Seismic Toss.

>>27941350

You're either underestimating his poor HP or overestimating its defences.
Even without it, though, Shuckle is shit. It's passive as hell, Shuckle has no threatening powers whatsoever. Set-up a Substitute on it and it can't do shit, set-up a Taunt and it can't do shit. Toxic/Burn it or start setting up because about the only thing Shuckle can do is Toxic and try to stall you it (protip: it can't).

I rejoice every time I see a Shuckle because it's basically free set-up. As I said, Shuckle has a niche in setting up Sticky Web as most of the others (Ariados, Kricketune, Leavanny) are even more shitty than Shuckle. The one exception is Galvantula.

>>27940875
>>27941458
They're purely talking defense, not the other things like attack or move pool