Ice Weaknesses

The heat of the water melts it OP, thus the heat would be labled as fire.

Well, crushing a bug with a rock is super-effective, but crushing a bug with a fist is not very effective. The Type chart is largely arbitrary, anon.

>>27818467
>mfw rock isn't super effective against rock

If ice can freeze water why is it resistant and not at least neutral?

If poisons can be water solvent why isn't poison immune to water or super effective against it (or vice versa in the case of watering down)

>>27818529
The heat of water is not a fire type quality. If that were the case, Scald and Steam Eruption would not be Water type moves.

>water melting ice = erosion

protip: it's HEAT that melts ice, not water

>>27818555
my thought process for that was always that strongmen are afraid of bugs. maybe it's just because I have two meathead friends who run away from spiders that this makes sense to me

>>27818636
>Pro tip: It's friction that causes erosion, not the water

I know it's the heat of water, but the water is still what is melting the ice.

Most water pokemon are aquatic, shouldn't dry earth (ground) be effective against them rather than the other way around?

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>>27818782
>a meme for ants

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>>27818782

The one I never understood is Dark being super effective against Ghost.
Ghosts thrive in dark environments, so it can't be the actual darkness that harms them. Ghosts are also generally depicted as cursed beings summoned by evil forces. So a malevolent attacking type would make ghosts stronger, not kill them.
If anything, a type that produces light, such as Electric or Fire, should be super effective against Ghost.

>>27818686
>Put ice cube in a glass of water
>it melts
>Put glass of water in freezer
>it freezes
checkmate

>Freeze-Dry's your pokemons ass

>>27818861
I assume it's because they needed to balance psychic and ghost types in gen 2 since they were so good in gen 1

if the ice is sufficiently cold it will freeze the water right?

Flying should not be immune to Ground only NVE.

You can throw a rock or blow ice at a bird but you can't kick sand in its face or trap it in a sandstorm? The only moves Flying should be immune to are Earthquake-based.

>>27818861
I always saw it as the dark types could sort of manipulate the ghosts types making them weaker

>>27821682
yeah hence freeze dry

>>27821732
Go outside and slap a bird with mud. See how that works

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>>27821732
>bonemarang can't hit flying types

>>27818611
>ice can freeze water
No it can't

>>27823589
I feel like Bonemerang should be one of those moves that ignores immunity.

>>27818622
>>27818686

Scald and Steam Eruption should be super-effective against Ice.

>>27818861

Evil-types aren't above attacking the deceased, and in fact relish in it.

>>27821732

Absolutely agreed.

>>27823763
No doubt, you're launching a bone into the air to strike your target, having flying types or levitating mons just completely ignore it is silly, its honestly not much different to launching a rock move.

>>27823730
We're not looking at an solitary ice cube freezing a cup of water.

Pokemon are sources of energy, meaning that it would be more like the refrigerator freezing water to make ice cubes.

Ice types aren't just cold, they make other things cold and freeze them.

>>27823730
I find it weird that this is true.

>>27823799
Well by that logic Earthquake should still hit flying types because they're visibly hovering just a few feet off the ground and Quake throws up jagged hunks of earth taller than that.

Work from the assumption that the game visuals are placeholders; a boomerang only travels a short distance before returning to its source. It can't get far enough up.

>>27818467
>why isn't Water super effective against Ice
>>27818611
>If poisons can be water solvent

Why isn't water the ultimate most unbeatable type to match it having the best distribution?
>>27818654
Actually like how Dark is evil, Fighting and Bug types are considered heroic. Heroes don't do well against each other. Look it up.
>>27821664
>ghost types
You mean the Gastly line which were already weak against Psychic, Ghost, and Ground due to their typing. The only other ghost was Misdreavus, which you didn't get until you completed the post-post game and reached Mt. Silver.

>>27818467
>erosion

Or maybe you forgot to mention resistance and weight? You know how hard it is to swim in clothes right? Well imagine being a fucking boulder and drenched, with any trace of dirt soaking it up. Furthermore, fresh water is even harder to swim in due to density.

The reason why water doesn't beat ice is because of its state, it's a liquid. Meaning that if it loses that state (becomes gas or solid) it become useless. Ice should beat water for this fact alone: Ice pokemon can lower temperatures to the point of instantly freezing virtually anything, thus it should be able to freeze any exit points a water type has.

The same could be said about fire, however water requires a fuck ton of heat energy to instantly vaporize - and there's not telling just how much water a pokemon magically contains. Another fact to look at is how fire types require oxygen for most of their abilities, water essentially suffocates fire types.

In low temperature, water always turns to ice, not back to water.

>>27823959
Forgot to add

You need to also remember that ice pokemon are "cold" generators, it's not like the pic you posted. Both the ice AND the water are meeting room temperature. However if that ice stayed that temperature, or absorbed heat energy like a vaccum then that water would freeze instead of the ice melting.

inb4 scald
hot water freezes faster. true story.

>>27818467
Ice picks/ Ice breaker ships

rock being strong on Ice is fucking stupid though

>>27818467
>Water type
Is essentially the vapor condensation type

>Ice type
Is essentially the liquid nitrogen type

Put boiling water into -15 frigid air and it becomes snow instantly. Which for most ice types with a cold core or weather control would mean nothing but a shower of snowflakes or at worst the water did manage to land on them only to fortify their icy defense without negative impact whatsoever

>>27824010
>what is shock absorption

ground and water should have thee best shock absorption in the game. Ignore steel because that's more about weight and momentum, but rocks will crumble to an earthquake which is what the ground governs. Ground isn't weak against ground because they "deal" with it via great shock absorption. Rock beats Ice because Ice is most definitely more fragile, especially due to the bonds between the water molecules, which is more of a halo and actually quite weak. That's why the same amount of water when frozen is larger, because it increases its volume by instead of being layers of individual molecules, it's more of an actual structure with pockets between the halos.

Both Ice and Rock are weak to ground for this very reason.

>>27824073
*oh and ice being weak to rock makes sense due to rock having the better shock absorption than ice. Ice will shatter when hit with that shit.

>>27818636
>>27818686
And Scald and Steam Eruption already melts Frozen targets. I think this "issue" was already solved.

>>27818467
I don't think ice pokémon are like ice cubes in a glass of water. I always just figured they were real fucking cold, and the water would be reduced to a much lower temperature nearing contact.

Dose bug resist fighting because bugs are seen as 'unclean' and 'dirty', thus not something you would touch?

>>27818555
>>27818654
also these are giant bugs and it would probably be very difficult to punch through exoskeleton exoskeleton

>>27825212
Both Fighting and Bug are like Heroic types in Japan because Sentai (like Kamen Raider) and generic Shonen anime.

In fact, thinking about it, Bug is resisted by almost everything yet nothing is inmune to it because they're supposed to be underdogs. Like the weak character that grows stronger over time. While Fighting types are those role models who are already strong yet they don't have that much space to keep growing.

Fighting-Type match-up could fit with this yet Bug- should have at least more resistances to make it up for its poor offensive performance and fit the archetype of underdog: A lot of things can make them fall, but few can really beat them.

Pokemon is a game of quantities here, where the attacking type is in a much smaller quantity than the defending type. In addition to this, while attacking types usually mean the pure element (Ice Beam), the defending types can mean either (Cryogonal made of Ice, Dewgong just acclimated to Ice environments). These three things should be taken into account.

Ergo, effectiveness should be:
Water NVE vs Ice
Ice SE vs Water

And while we're at it some other changes would make sense:
Ice SE vs Fire because fires are prone to going out easily, hot blooded creatures get their shit wrekt in the cold
Fire NVE vs Ice because fire easily goes out when in contact with the freezing air around a large body of ice

There's also some other stupid things, like Electric should be ineffective against non-grounded Flying Pokemon because they're not even grounded and wouldn't feel a thing. Birds sit on powerlines all the time. Thunder should be an exception though, as a bolt straight down from the sky to the ground with something caught in the middle is the only way to electrocute something midair. Ground types shouldn't be immune to Electric either, they should be weak to it. It makes sense a grounded Ground type Pokemon would draw in electricity the most, and would hurt like fuck, doesn't matter if you're a massive fucking hippo with sand coming out of your arsehole. Ground weakness doesn't really make sense for Electric types though because they're either on the ground already, or having sand thrown in their eyes. Yeah keep it neutral. Water on the other hand, short circuit the shit outta dat Electric type fo sure

Another thing that grind my gears is Fighting being SE vs Steel, Rock, and Ice. Have you tried to suplex a Golem? Well what about a 4ft tall rock that weighs 300kg? Yeah good luck with that. NFE unless you use Brick Break or some shit, problem solved. Fighting should be SE vs Psychic tho because brain haemorrhaging and shit

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>>27825375

>>27825375
Also it's hard to concentrate when Machamp has you in a four arm submission hold with your face in his dick.

Psychic should also be immune to Dark, Ghost, and Bug, because mind over matter, they can tune that shit out. Should be weak as fuck to Fighting and Poison though because that shit fucks your brain up. Maybe also be NFE vs Rock and Steel because they are literally as dumb as box of rocks. Unless you use a move like Psychic (Psychokinesis in Japan) which should be SE.

Dark should be SE vs normal because normal people can get bullied, and don't put up with that satanic shit and all that. Ghost SEness makes sense because darkness manipulates ghosts into doing weird shit like opening cupboards until a psychic comes along to make the evil fuck off. But should be immune to Bugs and Poison because bugs are just a minor annoyance, and they know full well what they doing with that poison

Bugs should be immune to Normal because they don't give a fuck what you doing on a Monday night they got bug shit to do. Oh did you want to use a Normal type move like Body Slam? Well shit looks like you missed because that's a fucking ant. Should be SE vs Steel, Rock, and Electric though because those bugs can infiltrate anywhere and fuck shit up, like damn short circuiting and finding weaknesses in your armour.

Grass should also resist Fairy because Fairies live there and keep them alive to live in and shit

>>27818467
Water and Ice should hit each other for neutral damage with only scald and freeze dry doing super effective damage on each other