Middle Evos that are stronger than Last Evos

>>27801024
...I think you listed them all. And porygon is debateable, since they function different roles.

>>27801024
I think Rhydon is at least close to Rhypherior.

Wartortle is bulkier than Blastoise

I disagree with Porygon2. I used a Porygon-Z and it destroyed, Adaptability with Nasty Plot and Tri-Attack made it a fucking nigtmare. Even if instead of using Nasty Plot you gave it a Choice scarf it still tore through teams.

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>>27801128
Its an amazing surprise revenge killer, and it can OHKO almost anything not completely specially defensively-oriented with adaptability hyper beam. I use one a lot and its amazing

Clefairy and even Jigglypuff for doubles and triples because of Friend Guard

can't think of much else

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You all forgot Vigoroth

>>27801128
I have to agree. Z is a surprise whenever I use it on my mono normal type team. I getc asked sometimes why I use Z instead of 2 whenever I send him out. The main answer is because I like Z better, but also due to the fact that it is so satisfying to take out some of their team when they don't expect it.

Maybe my luck with Tri-Attack is kicking in though, if they don't die to it they end up with at least one of the statuses usually. Most of the time they just die though.

>still no offensive eviolite

>>27801179
Yeah, with eviolite. I think OP means stronger by natural means.

>>27801239
I don't think so.

>>27801231
>eviolite
>viol is rape in french
>rapeite

>>27801239
You mean to say Chansey, Dusclops and Pory2 are stronger without the eviolite? How?

>>27801239
What,there's no such thing as pre-evo that's better without Eviolite

>>27801239
>better even without the eviolite
Anon, I've got news for you, eviolite is the only way, other than abilities, that a prevo has to be better than its evo.

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>>27801268
>>27801271
Well no shit eviolite makes nfe stronger. What was the point of the thread then?

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>>27801108
Wha? Give me a set right now!

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>>27801239
>CHECK IT OUT GUYS IM FUCKING RETARDED

>>27801300
Read properly, it's about what pre-evos are better than their evolutions

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>>27801337
Yes and most of you said that it's virtually impossible without the Eviolite which would make almost all of them better.

Nigga YOU read.

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>>27801337
Ok then:
None.
There isn't a single prevo that, by its own merit and no items, is more viable/usefull or better in almost any way than its evolution. Wanna know why? because the point of evolution is to make them stronger, its completely counter-intuitive to think the second evo line would ever, without items, be better than the evolution.

Scyther gets better bst with evolite

>>27801357
When Scyther evolves, its stats are just swapped and gains steel type.
While steel type pretty much improves any other existing type, it's one case of an evolution that doesn't improve the strengh of a pokémon.

>>27801357
>>27801295
I don't know, to be honest. I'd still say Vigoroth is (arguably) better than Slaking, because it doesn't have the worst ability ever.

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>>27801378
It does though. the reasigning of the stats to fit actually usefull roles and the retyping into a much, much better type combination makes it so much stronger it jumps several tiers with those things alone.

Evolution ALWAYS makes the pokemon stronger, regardless of how it does it. Its the whole point of evolution you dense motherfucker.

>>27801356
The fuck are you talking about, why would you not factor in Eviolite when talking about how good an NFE is?

>>27801357
>I know nothing about Pokemon battling

>>27801378
holy fuck you're retarded if you think Scizor isn't in every way better than Scyther.

>>27801024
Porygon2 is stronger than Porygon-Z? What?

>>27801395
Not really. Without eviolite its stats are very mediocre. Its offensively average and everything else is bad. Slaking is much better at what he does: revenge kill.

>>27801411
Its up for debate, given how different they are, but with eviolite porygon2 is one of the bulkiest pokemon there are, and porygon-Z's role as a wallbreaker or revenge killer is very good, but quite frankly I don't know who does their job better.

>>27801403
>I'm going to greentext and provide no logical arguments
that's how you know someone is fighting a pointless argument, or baiting.

>>27801411
Porygon-Z has almost nothing that makes it viable while Porygon2 is one of the best anti-offensive pokes in the game

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Okay, okay. Let's forget about Eviolite for one fucking second here. Is there ANY Pokémon that has LOWER stats than it's preevolution. Anyone? No?

Then there you go.

>>27801300
you're a dumb nigger lol

>>27801435
Oh yeah well you're a double nigger.

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>>27801433
You're wrong, faggot.

>>27801433
Even without eviolite, there's certain pokemon that are better than their evos in a lot of situations.
Riolu and Murkrow come to mind.

>>27801426
>Porygon-Z has almost nothing that makes it viable
Are you braindead? What about the fast it has an enormous 140 Special attack? what about adaptability for massive STAB damage and coverage or download for easy sweeps? Are you this unaware?

>>27801433
Alot of sinnoh evos lose speed when they evolve
electabuzz has higher speed and SpA then electivire

>>27801433
Vibrava has less Attack than Trapinch, and Flygon has equal attack to Trapinch.

>>27801458
>Riolu and Murkrow come to mind
But that's wrong, without eviolite they're worse than their evos.

Does pika count?

>>27801472
Prankster

>>27801479
>prankster perish song is enough to make it better than sucker punch moxie evo
No, its a gimmick at best, its only usefull with eviolite in PU

>prankster copycat or swords dance into baton pass without eviolite works, or is in any way better than a mixed sweeper with great typing and amazing coverage
Sure, good luck with that.

>>27801433
>>27801449
>>27801458

Get rekt you autistic faggot >>27801433

>>27801396
Scyther is surprisingly viable

>>27801419
Oh yeah I forgot about eviolite. Honestly between the two I really think it depends on the kind of team you have and how the strategics work into it. I'd say they're mostly equal, just with different strengths.

I dont think porygon2 is, but kadabra and weepinbell are

How viable is evolite Gligar?

>>27801461
There is way more to an offensive Pokemon than its attacking stat. PorygonZ's speed is shit considering how frail it is, and it's heavily focused on normal type attacks which you can take care of with any bulky steel or even ghost type

>>27801507
It is, but its not better than scizor, not by a long shot.

>>27801504
>quoting the original post twice
>quoting shedinja, the literal "special scenario" pokemon
>thinking the murkwo and riolu thing is true
Wow, you really ARE delusional

>>27801516
Very, it works wonders as stall, wall and defogger with reliable recovery and no rocks weaknesses. Gliscor can somewhat pull of its role but itsnt as good at it due to less bulk.

>>27801516
Compared to Gliscor it's not viable at all

>>27801523
Porygon-Z has the ability to use an item, something 2 can't use. Using a choice scarf turns it into a dangerous revenge killed with things like 300 BP hyper beam or the safer 150 BP tri attack. And if you think having counters means its bad, then porygon2 is dogshit because it has many, many counters. Besides, porygon-Z has access to dark pulse for ghosts, and thunderbolt for steel types anyways.

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>115 base defense
>100 base sp. Attack
>Access to amnesia and reliable recovery
Probably a better ball of vines than that fatass Tangrowth

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this whole thread

>>27801552
No, it has no special defense or reliable recovery.

>>27801557
>game grumps
Because you're any better

>>27801552
Too little HP compared to Tangrowth for Eviolite to matter, plus Tangrowth isn't forced to carry Eviolite so it can use Leftovers or AV.

>>27801503
Murkrow also gets Twave Roost and Quash for doubles hes a great prankster mon

>>27801583
1. Its a good utility mon, but without eviolite its worse at its job than honchcrow, which is the whole point of the argument. I like murkrow and think it works, but without eviolite it isn't as good as its evo.

2. I thought we were talking about singles smogon. Doubles is way to different and has a lot of changes compared to singles.

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>>27801560
>getting upset at my post

goddamn your salt is making me hard

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>>27801631
Wait, you're the arin poster? alright, jack off to my post more if it pleases you.

>>27801535
Fuck off. PorygonZ is worse than Porygon2 in every format. Porygon2 is A- in Battle Spot Singles for example, while Z is too mediocre to even be ranked there.

It's really that simple. Chansey and Porygon2 are just flat out better than their evos.

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>>27801713
No, you fuck off. You said Porygon-Z has nothing that makes it viable, I just listed a paragraph of reasons as to why it IS. You can't compare the porygons because THEY AREN'T THE SAME. You can't compare chansey to mega medichamp either, it just stupid. To make matters worse, you aren't even saying your orginal point anymore, your argument has dulled down to "its used this way so its better!", when you spoke absolutely about the pokemon initially.

Should I use Adaptability or Download on Porygon-Z?

>>27801780
Adaptability no questions.

>>27801776
Find us one successful competitive team in any format that used Porygon-Z

It's a fun mememon but is not very viable

>>27801780
Depends, I recoment adaptability on a revenge killer and download on a set-up set. Its better to have the power to kill easily as soon as you swap in with adaptability, since its reliable. Download can help you set up pory when getting ready for a sweep or to deal with a pesky wall.

>>27801799
UU revenge killer. It has >1% less usage than regular porygon2.

>>27801713
AWW did the little pussy get triggered?

>>27801458
>Riolu is better than lucario
Bwahahaahahh kill urself

>>27801828
>Smogon tier anything below OU
>specifically made for Pokemon that aren't very viable
hmm

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>>27801883
So you're saying Blissey isn't viable?
So you're saying infernape isn't viable?
So you're saying mandibuzz isn't viable?
So you're saying mienshao isn't viable?
So you're saying metagross isn't viable?
So you're saying sableye isn't viable?


So you're saying Porygon2 isn't viable?

>>27801883
Pretty much everything in UU is viable in OU senpai
Every month there's mons swapping places between OU, BL, and UU.

>>27801433
In terms of BST:
Nincada: 266
Shedinja: 236

In terms of specific stats:
Magneton has higher speed than Magnezone.
Electabuzz has higher speed than Electavire.
Magmar has higher speed than Magmortar.
Scyther has higher speed than Scizor, but lower attack and defense.
Porygon2 has higher defenses than Porygon-Z.
Trapinch has higher attack than Vibrava, but is equal to Flygon.

In terms of abilities:
Riolu gets Prankster to spam a Mimicked High Jump Kick.
Murkrow can massively extend its bulk by Prankster.

>>27801147
Wonderful sweeper with agility, tri- attack, dark pulse, and ice beam/thunderbolt

>>27801433
Metapod has higher Defense than Butterfree, Magneton has higher Speed than Zone, Scyther has higher Speed than Scizor, Larvesta has higher Attack than Volcarona

>>27801076
Rhydon eviolite is tankier than ryperior by a lot.... It sucks how stupid it actually is

>>27801024
>Chansey
Pretty much the only one where there is universal consensus. Blissey has some niche uses, but 90% of the time, Chansey is the better choice.
>Dusclops
Both are garbage anyway.
>Porygon2
They perform different roles, so there isn't one that is inherently better than the other. However, Porygon2 has a more useful and difficult to replicate niche, while even something like Nidoking can easily replicate what Porygon-Z does just as well, if not better.

>>27801076
While Rhydon is bulkier than Rhyperior on neutral and resisted hits, Solid Rock cancels out the advantage on supereffective ones. And obviously, Rhyperior gets to run other items like Leftovers or Choice Band, which makes it a more versatile Pokémon, and able to sponge a Knock off in an emergency. Maybe if Rhydon got Head Smash there would be an actual reason to use it over Rhyperior.

>>27801458
>Riolu
Copycat Roar is dead. Copycat HJK is nothing more than an awful gimmick, LO Extreme Speed from Lucario isn't even much weaker and doesn't require any setup to be used.
>Murkrow

Not really worth using over other Prankster mons, Honchkrow is way more threatening right off the bat.

>>27801477
Despite Light Ball, Pikachu is still less viable than Raichu, which has an amazing 110 base speed and can take a weakish hit. LO Raichu isn't even significantly weaker compared to Light Ball Pikachu.

>>27801516
Not at all, Poison Heal is too good to pass up and vastly makes up for the loss in bulk.

>>27801552
It's barely bulkier than Tangrowth, can't use moves like Earthquake or Knock Off, nor items like Leftovers, Rocky Helmet or Assault Vest.


Nobody mentioned Magneton, which is faster than Magnezone and thus a better Choice Scarf user. However, Scarf is still a mediocre set, and Specs is the better Magnet set by a long shot, which makes Magneton a niche choice.

>>27801024
Some Pokémon this anon didn't cover >>27802172

>Trapinch
Trapinch fills the very odd niche of Trick Room revenge killer/arena trapper with its base 100 Attack which is equal to Flygon's. Not a very good niche though, but it's better than Vibrava.

>Larvesta
Larvesta works completely different from Volcarona because of its higher base 85 Attack. It's not OU by any means, but it can work on certain teams in the lower tiers.

>Zweilous
Like Larvesta and contrary to Hydreigon, it is a physical sweeper in the lower tiers. Hustle boosted Outrage is strong. It used to be the strongest Outrage in the game iirc? Or maybe that belonged to Rivalry Haxorus prior to Black-Kyurem or something.

>Clefairy
Similar to Chansey vs Blissey argument in doubles. Friend Guard + Eviolite makes things fairly bulky.

>>27801128
Porygon2 is bulkier then Lugia and Trace is an amazing trait.

Porygon-Z has just more offensive capabilities. They serve different roles, but at least Porygon 2 has been OU at some point, while Porygon-Z probablt never.

>>27801024
Please polygon z is a glass Cannon and in terms of strength can mop the floor with 2.
2 is better all around though with recovery and high def

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>>27801024
This one..