Pokemon Stats

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>this thing has 130 base attack
i knew it was pretty good but holy shit

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>This thing had base 165 attack

>>27777488
Still useless for some reason.

>>27777498
>it has 58 base speed
>it has defenses bellow 70
>it has rock monotyping
gee I wonder why

>Abra has 105 base Sp.Atk

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>this monster has 45 base attack
i knew it was pretty good but holy shit

>>27777368
>Amoonguss has better attack stats than Talonflame

>>27777522
>Giant rock snake
>A bug can hit harder than it.

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>This thing has 140 base Attack

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>Cresselia has 120/120/130 bulk
Can someone remind me why this thing isn't in OU again?

>>27777566
Psychic is a horrible type defensive wise.

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>this thing has 150 special attack
Holy fuck, how is this not in Ub-
>it has 60 base defense
>it has 70 base speed
...oh

>>27777582
That doesnt make sense, unbound has only 10 more points in speed and higher offenses, and its banned to Ubers. Its dark/Psychic that much better of a typing?

>>27777566
>only recovery move is Moonlight

>>27777566
Psychic
It can't really do much offensively so it just ends up as set-up bait

>>27777604
Well it's not 4x weak to knock off

>>27777368
wew

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>This thing has 136 attack, 135 speed, and 94/96 defenses
Is lopunny the best mega?

>>27777475
how can it punch? it's arms are so tiny

>>27777916
They work like elastic

>>27777926
prove it

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>>27777943

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>This thing has 160 mixed offenses, 110 speed and mixed bulk
Why is this allowed?

>>27778038
waifu bait

>>27777582
>>27777604
Because regular Hoopa is Pursuit weak, really

>>27778038
Diancie doesn't really have mixed bulk though. That HP sucks.

>>27777566
If it was part Fairy, you can bet yout candy ass it would be OU.

>>27778112
I meant to say defensive bulk, my bad

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>>27777943

>>27777901
Can confirm it is. I love using this thing.

>>27778145
thanks, I was just too lazy to google

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>this thing's everything

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>>27777901
>>27778148
>best mega
Please
>Amazing bulk in those defenses
>one weakness (2 with scrappy)
>amazing non-mega ability, great mega ability
>excellent movepool
>decent attack stats
Sableye is the best of megas

>>27777566
Because smogon meta is retarded?

Cresselia is deservedly top tier in all official formats except rotations

>>27778157
It's neat for sandstorm/infestation cheese, and it can use power trick to decent effect. I pair it with Mega Tyranitar.

>>27777566
Move pool is support only, and smogon belongs to sweepers (and they'll ban anything that says otherwise)

>>27778188
play her in OU, she is useless

stop saying "smogon meta is retarded" when it's dicted by usages, and usages are dicted by what is strong and what is not

if you cant understand that, you're retarded

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>>27778176
>Adaptability
>Speed ties with mega sceptile
>Base 150 attack
>Base 145 speed
>Wide coverage

If it successfully knocks something out with fell stinger, it's pretty much unstoppable

THIS is the best mega

>>27777506
Eh, just get it a focus sash.
Or a quick claw and hope for rng.

>>27778250
>priority moves
Its amazing, but its very easy to shut down

>>27778260
I'd suggest choice scarf rather to be used as a revenge killer, but I'm not sure how usefull that would be

>>27777901
>lopunny has been my bro since gen 4
>included in all my competitive teams in gen 4 and 5
>had a lot of gimmicky sets and useful moves
>suddenly its a good pokemon and become mainstream
>people call me a waifu shitter or bandwagonner

Kinda pisses me off but I'm still using it.

>>27778244
Usages are dictated by everyone netdecking each other.

Just because it's not discovered and copypasta'd to oblivion yet doesn't mean it sucks. It could just mean only a few guys recognize it's potential.

>>27778176
>>2778250
We can all agree do these are top three.

Still would've loved do if Sableye got two Megas, one exclusive to OR which is the hell imp we know and one in AS purelly offense oriented.

>>27778278
Is choice enough to catch up though?
Also, sash is confirmed revenge kill 99% of the time.

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>>27778287
>shitmon gets good in a new generation
>there's always that special snowflake hipster who crawls out of his hole and claims it was his bro all along and hates how he isn't special anymore
just off yourself

I don't understand people who shit on smogon.

1. nobody forces you to use their rules, make your own if you don't like them
2. if you play OU you can use like 98% of all pokemons. If you want to use your shit tier bromon, just use it. If it's part of the 2% that's uber, just play uber.
3. OU doesnt mean it's stronger, it just means its more used. If everyone starts using weedle, weedle will become OU.

It's not the only competitive pokemon community and each community has it owns rules

>>27778352
I don't hate that I'm not special anymore.

I hate that I get shit for using a pokemon I've been using since it was introduced

>>27778400
>I hate that I get shit for using a pokemon
literally never ever happened, stop making up stuff you retard

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This guy has 130 base attack!

>>27778400
>I hate that I get shit for using a pokemon I've been using since it was introduced
But you can always just ignore them you know. Are you one of those people that refuses to use certain pokemon because of stigmas associated to them, like lucario and the eevees? I hope not. The people saying that are probably waifufags themselves if thats the first conclusion they come to.

>>27778416
>alomomola has 165 HP
Holy fuck

>>27778244
Never said she's good in OU, I just wanted to point out that Cresselia is actually an amazing Pokemon incase that post was implying Smogon's meta reflects how good a Pokemon is

>>27778411
Happens fairly often. Mostly getting shit because it's a waifubait.

>>27778443
I still use it, I'm just getting shit since the mega evo was introduced. It's still my favorite.

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>>27778328
>It could just mean only a few guys recognize it's potential.
It's funny because that just recently happened to Tangrowth. Nobody gave a shit, then people discovered that it's actually pretty good, everybody started using it and it jumped from RU to OU

>>27777522
actually had to look that up. christ they could at least swap its attack and speed

>>27778381
>It's not the only competitive pokemon community
Fine, name another with more than 100 users and an online battle sim to boot.

>>27778519
VGC

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>both defenses above 100, 135 attack
It's pretty much guaranteed to attack after your opponent but at least he can still take a hit

>>27778519
There's my city's facebook group
about 1000 people in it, uses it own sets of rule

There's also a league at my university with about 80 regulars.

Never went to any of them but some of my friends do.

>and an online battle sim
Since when is this required? They just use a 3ds and a pokemon game

>>27778509
Snakes are fast but not powerful because the have no arms so can only limply flop against things. Which is why they typically have fangs, to take advantage of their speed and make them dangerous again. Except onix has no teeth, so he's just a flaccid flopper. Seems right to me.

>>27778574
>doubles
>exclusively

>>27778519
this>>27778574
>>27778620

Also you could start your own if you really hate smogon, can't find a community or are too autistic to meet people IRL.

>>27778643
you only wanted me to name a community with more than 100 users and an online battle sim

>>27778643
You didn't ask for a good comunity, you asked for another one

>>27778620
Sim is for ease of team making.

>>27778643
>hate smogon
>ask for another community with his own set of rule
>someone points out vgc who has ''double battle'' in his own set of rule
>''I iwish it was more like smogon''

>>27778620
Should we make an anon's-city-fb-group-derp?

>>27778188
>>27778328

Smogon also does tours! Which means if there's a top tier strategy, even if it's only something a few top tier players can utilize, it sees tour usage.

Tangrowth was extremely common in tours. It took a long time for ladder to catch on, which results in >>27778492

Cresselia, on the other hand, gets zero tour usage. Pure Psychic is an awful typing and it's horridly slow. It's enormous defenses still aren't high enough to not get 2 shot by the hardest hitting threats in the game. Against weaker mons Cressy tanks pretty well but against those mons you don't need a wall dedicated to them.

Resistances and abilities >>> raw stats for defensive mons. Cress has none of the former, leaving it outclassed despite the fact it has tons of the latter. The reason it's so good in doubles formats is because so many moves have their power reduced by splitting, it's EQ immune, set up sweepers don't exist, it can be paired with intimidate users to more easily bolster is defenses, raw stats are better defensively in doubles than singles because there's less time to switch making resistances less useful, and it has insane speed control because of Icy Wind, Trick Room, and Thunder Wave. Singles and Doubles are significantly different metagames, and Cressy is UU because of that.

>>27778660
3ds is probably the best sim available

>>27778582
Unless, you know, its a fire type attack

>>27778659
The intent was for you to name a replacement/superior alternative for smogon

You can't say "we'll if smogon ducks play a different one" if the rest suck worse than smogon.

>>27778687
Give him the fire berry

>>27778701
sucking is subjective, I prefer vgc to smogon

Find something you like or create it

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>This thing has 81 Base Attack
i knew it was pretty good but holy shit

>>27778730
Occa isn't going to save him if the Fire move has STAB.

Ledian

>>27778701
...but you've been answered by others. Its not like you specified you wanted that kind of replacement, you just said "show me another comunity" and there are hundreds of comunities you'll find supperior to smogon. The only difference is smogon has much larger reach becuase it is more popular.

You need to find them yourself, and as someone else said, you wont find a community if you're socially retarded

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>>27778736
>tfw cranidos outclasses that by 40 points
It is really a miracle talonflame got gale wings, nothing else could've saved it.

>>27778582
i love the thing but its litteraly just a worse scizor

>>27778765
talonflame ruined the line

>>27778765
People say that, but 126 speed is still a lot. If Fletchinder can be RU with Gale Wings, Talonflame probably could've been RU without them.

>>27778188
t. VGC shitter

I don't care how good it is in your retarded 4 vs 4 doubles meta dominated by two megas and two genies.

Pokemon as a franchise was built on 6 vs 6 singles, everything else is hipster shit for people who are too stupid to play a real match of Pokemon. Been that way since Gen 1.

>>27778801
>competitive pokemon
enjoy your unbalanced rng shitfest

>>27778801
You're really not making a better case for smogon when there's pokemon in every tier with 30%+ usage like the genies, and the excesive use of P-Groudon dooms Ubers as nothing else than 9 year olds: the meta.

I like smogon, but it isnt "the true way pokemon was meant to be played". Pokemon was never meant to be competitive

>>27778789
Fletchinder has gale wings and eviolite, Talonflame without those two would be mediocre at best

>>27778681
>Resistances and abilities >>> raw stats for defensive mons.
Quagsire is probably the best example of this. It has a meager bst of 430, but has only one uncommon weakness and unaware as its hidden ability.
Quagsire is OU, whereas the 600 bst Cresselia is UU.

>>27778801
>Pokemon as a franchise was built on 6 vs 6 singles
>disregard the fact that this was 20 years ago and the serie has evolved
>literally moves and abilities designed to be use with or agaisnt multiple oppenent

D E N I A L

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>>27778856
>Quagsire is OU

>>27778145
Is this canon? That's cool as fuck.

>>27778840
Fletchinder doesn't actually use eviolite! It's only viable RU set is SD Acro (it doesn't learn Brave Bird), so Talon actually gets to have an item where Fletchinder doesn't.

>>27778681
>>27778801
Can smogonfags read?

"all official formats except rotations" doesn't mean doubles only, it includes singles and triples. In all of those Cresselia is one of the best Pokemon. Fact of the matter is, Smogon has way too many rule differences and quirks compared to the real game to use its meta as indication of how good a Pokemon is

>Pokemon as a franchise was built on 6 vs 6 singles
In-game =/= competitive

>>27778882
In his defense, it's spent a considerable amount of time in OU in Gen 6, and only dropped fairly recently.

>>27778287
tfw blaziken fan from gen 3

>>27778935
Didnt it just get moved to OU in may though

>>27778928
Nobody plays rotation or triples, so I don't know how you could even imply something is good there. Cressy probably IS good in trips based on its kit, but there's no actual evidence of it because those metagames don't exist.

She's decent in battle spot singles but for the same reason as doubles. Games are (usually) over in a matter of turns. Cressy's power increases the fewer turns available in the game because there's less turns you can switch. Smogon has the longest games out of any format, so Cressy becomes a lot worse.

>>27778801
>everything else is hipster shit
>official competitive format is double

hopefully they see how they fucked up and don't allow legends next time, I can't fathom why they thought it was a good idea

>>27778983
It's been in and out. It depends on the meta. It's spent more time in OU than Cresselia has, to say the least.

>>27779011
>but there's no actual evidence of it because those metagames don't exist.
Please tell me you don't actually believe this

This is why showdown is serious cancer to competitive play outside of Japan

>>27778801
>Pokemon as a franchise was built on 6 vs 6 singles
>the OFFICIAL format is vgc

>>27779074
There's going to be more people in an average bar tonight than there are people on the planet that play Rotation or Trips on Wifi.

Those metagames, by any reasonable definition, are dead. If nobody enjoys those metagames, and they're not sponsored, nobody plays them.

People enjoy 6v6. Doubles are sponsored. Battle Spot is probably the easiest format to play on cart. These are the formats people play. These are what people enjoy. Other metas don't exist because people don't want to play them. This is fact.

>>27778188
cringe

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>>27779140
>triples and rotations aren't a part of Battle Spot
You want to keep going or are you done being stupid?

>>27777522
>Weedle has more HP than Onix (40 vs 35)

>>27777522
>Onyx can reach 690 def with eviolite

>>27779207
There can't be a metagame for something that no one plays seriously. If you desagree with this, you simply do not understand the concept of a metagame.

How would you feel that a base 145 special attack stat would go to a possessed chandelier?

I used to run a team of slow but bulky walls like Porygon2 but I'm getting tired of moving second and I'd like to try out some speed-focused mons (I'm not a fan of trick room)

I'm already planning on using my bro Ninjask, and perhaps Yanmega
What are some mons (non legendary) with good speed and decent movesets? Nothing spectacular I just want to have fun

>>27778491
>happens fairly often

Where? Where are you getting shit for using it?

>>27777522

>Onyx's second highest stat is speed

I never would have guessed.

>>27779622
alakazam and gengar are a lot of fun, since they're very good for hyper-offensive teams. Garchomp is excellent too,, and maybe mega-beedrill would be a lot of fun for you. Try stuff and see what works and what doesn't feel good, that's how I make my teams anyways. I win 50% of the time if I'm lucky but I always have fun

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>>27779633
>Onyx
I want summer go fags to leave and stay gone

>>27779802
>falling for it

>>27779802

>Someone makes a spelling error
>FUCKING SUMMERFAGS REEEE

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>>27778904
Canon since day one dude. Check its attack animation in Gen 6.

>>27779519
And triples and rotations do have a serious metagame on Battle Spot, Japanese competitive scene especially play all formats. They obviously aren't as active as singles and doubles but they are most certainly there. It's sad that simulator culture has actually made people like you think otherwise

>>27779648
>Gengar
>Garchomp
Yeah, I was looking at those two as well. Isn't Alakazam pretty bad if you're not using his mega?

I always get fucked by faster mons, what would you say is a decent enough base speed stat to prevent that?

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>>27778145
I can't believe it, it's grass typing actually makes sense now.

>>27781010
>a fucking mushroom with legs
>didnt think it's grass typing made sense

>>27778840
>Pokemon was never meant to be competitive

It is in a doubles format, if VGC is anything to go by. Balance is still nonexistent, though.

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>>27778038
>Scizor used bullet punch

>>27781221
>mushroom cap on it's head = instantly grass type
C'mon now, it's a weird ass fighting mushroom dinosaur.

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>140 base speed
up to par with mega mewtu y

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>>27781221
>>27781010
>Fungus
>grass

literally shaking

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>not a single stat above 85
life is suffering for corsola

>>27781411
grass-type does not equal a plant
There's only 18 types to categorize all pokemons and fungus are part of the grass type.

>>27777566 knock off

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This thing is faster than Arcanine, Dragonite and pre-gen 6 Pidgeot.

>>27777506
Just run max SpD in Sandstorm and do SubPunch, Head Smash, and Pain Split obviously.

>>27777566
>>27778188
Because, y'know, Cresselia has better things to do besides being Knock Off bait and throwing out Thunder Wave and overall ineffective attacks

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>>27781449
>shit stats
>shit typing
>great ability
I have a level 100 one, it's my bro.

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>>27781010
Breloom is an example of a strange concept with brilliant execution. You make non-animal a fighter, and give it traits that no animal fighter would have.
>>27781452
>>27781411
Gamefreak only categorizes Fungi with plants as they're immobile organisms that sprout from the ground.
>>27781337
And Shroomish was a dinosaur egg mixed with a mushroom. Really makes you think.

>>27778145
wtf I love Breloom now.

>>27781631
Its a mushroom + kangaroo

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>125 special attack

>>27780845
120 and up is very good speed, but since 100 is the average anything above that is usefull. Weavile is a lot of fun too. And alakazam isn't as weak as you think, have you tried running it with magic guard + life orb?

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>>27777565
>70 at half hp

>>27781367
I want to see its rolling animating. Is it like Sonic?

>>27778352
Fucking this

>>27777522
That just proves that Pokemon are crazy strong compared to humans. A 30 feet snake made of boulders is one of the weakest Pokemon in the game.

>krabbys attack stat

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>same Attack as its final evolution

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>>27778801
>everything else is hipster shit for people who are too stupid to play a real match of Pokemon

>>27782201
>has better ability than final evolution too

Why is Flygon so cucked?

>>27782228
>>27782228
Muh u turn and hazard control :^)

Needs to hurry up and be dragon/bug and Become a sp. attacker

>>27778620
That actually sounds kind of cool if they didn't make any retarded rules for it.

>>27782228
Pisses me off, flygon is my favourite Pokemon from Hoenn but it's so fucking bad in RSE and future games

>>27782310
I don't know what are the rules exactly but I know they have an item clause, and the only things that are banned are legendaries excluding trios and low power legends (like articuno, moltres, zapdos or mew, etc)

>>27778622
except that onix is a heavy pile of stones which i always imagine to move kinda slowly but hit like a truck once it hits you

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>a wingless, furry Charizard that can't mega evolve

>>27777522
>alakazam has higher base attack

>>27782455
Why were the Johto starters so meh. Will they get redeemed?

>>27782542
Feraligatr is pretty good

Typhlosion and Meganium especially need mega evolutions to be saved

I highly doubt they would get alola forms

>>27781984
Wrong, it's less because your EVs and IVs get halved too. At full investment, it will go down to the equivalent of a fully invested base 45 Attack.

>>27782542
Megas so let's hope.

>>27782455
I-It gets Eruption

>>27778145
GET OVER HERE

>>27782455
thankfully the gen 4 starters are even shittier so we'll probably get gen 2 megas

>>27782581
>>27782455
It had Extrasensory until Delphox came along.

>>27782611
i don't like you

>>27781337
>>mushroom cap on it's head = instantly grass type
that's kind of how pokemon works yeah

I'm surprised Richard hasn't come here yet to say that base stats aren't canon

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>>27782725

>>27778244
Nope, you're just stubborn, and frankly, kind of dumb. Smogon tiers are directed by BST and typing, and sure I get the reason behind that, but you've been playing yourself if you haven't been playing anything goes.

The best tier is no tier.

>>27782894
>Smogon tiers are directed by BST and typing
Different anon here, surely Slaking is Uber then, and Archeops is OU? While a normal type shitmon with pathetic BST like chansey is stuck in NU?

>>27782986
Dont forget sableye and breloom must be so awfull. I bet regigas is baned too.

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>140 base attack

>>27778260
Bullet and Mach punch say hello

>>27778133
That would make sense considering she's supposed to represent the crescent form of the moon, but then again Lunala, the pokemon based on the moon, isn't stated to be Fairy type.

>>27783372
Darkrai also represents the moon and he's not Fairy typed, so yeah.

>>27778736
>>27778765
>>27778789
>>27778840
>>27778918
>Unfezant has higher attack and Super Luck
>is shit ONLY because of its movepool

Literally a miracle.

does rng matter more in singles or doubles?

>>27783475
Doubles because Dark Void.

>>27778582
Use it on a rain team. It's pretty nice.

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>>27781449
>We're going to a Hawaii based region, teeming with coral reefs
>Corsola STILL wont get the evolution(s) it deserves.

>>27778260
>Entry hazards, and multiple striking attacks especially skill link users.
Focus sash or Sturdy aren't without counters.

>>27783600
Plus, It's only found at the very end of every game it's available in, despite being shit.

>>27783656
>Olivine is the very end of GSC

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>>27778622
>not powerful because the have no arms so can only limply flop against things.
What are constrictors?

>>27778701
But it is superior

>>27783774
>he thinks hug tubes are threatening

>>27783720
I should have said 'late' instead of 'at the very end of'

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>154 special defense
>20-30 points shaved off SpD could have gone towards speed or defense
>doomed to be degenerate bait

Goodra is just simply missed opportunities incarnate.

>>27784066
The worst pseudo stat wise for the worst pseudo design wise.

>>27784092
This. Even worse than goofy Dragonite. What is it with Sugimoris mons having god tier first and second stages and then shitting the bed?

>>27783310
>forgetting Aqua Jet

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>>27783372
>>27783429
I believe representing the moon is more of an astrological/space thing than a Fairy thing. Clefairy and Clefable don't represent the moon, but dedicate themselves to do rituals for the moon. Similar to a village tribe who try to be the ones with nature. And Fairy is one of the "nature" associated types.

Worshiping the moon and it's powers = Fairy
Looking like the moon ≠ Fairy

>>27783517
>fullproof

>>27778328
Then you surely could get to the top of the laddee with cresselia. We're waiting

>>27781335
>magnezone didn't give a shit
>rip sciz
Seriously diancie + magnet cores are annoying to play against

>>27785257
That's why you don't use Bullet Punch family

Or use Choice Band Scizor for that matter unless you're running another Mega

>>27777522
>one of the smallest Pokemon known to man at this time has higher attack than Onix

>>27785257
>predict switch
>use U turn, Knock Off or Superpower

That hard, sagrada familia?

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>125 attack
>71 speed
>505 BST

>>27782611
The Gen 4 starters actually have unique typings and niches. Even Feraligatr is just Bad Gyarados unless you rock out with Swords Dance.

>>27785671
>fire/fighting
>unique

>>27784066
I'd have liked Goodra if it had a Poison sub-typing.

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>>27785757
>Mad Blaziken baby that ran to Game Freak crying about Infernape so that Blaziken could be overtuned to fuck
But seriously what Infernape offers is relatively unique and it sets itself from other Fire pokemon. Hell Game Freak could have done the right thing and made Blaziken the higher risk/reward alternative to Infernape and instead opted to give it Speed Fucking Boost.

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>65 attack
how can other pokemon even compete?

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>This thing has 112 Base Speed.

>>27777506
does it have any good priority moves?
trick room?
focus sash?

>>27785671
>unless you rock out with Swords Dance.
Then your just a less powerful Crawdaunt thats more walled. Even though the latter is harder to use...

>>27785897
The only thing outstanding about rampardos is its attack stat and its special movepool. Its a fucking walking joke

>>27785522
And yet it's still so shit that it's an inside joke among OU analysis writers to completely reject it an analysis on-site.

>>27777522
> give a careful nature
> EV train SpD
> give it eviolite
> still can't take any special hits

>>27782455
> implying charizard wouldn't be better without it's flying type

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>This motherfucker has 30 in every stat

i knew it was pretty good but holy shit

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If shuckle got double the hp it has now would it be broken?

>>27786071
No because Shuckle has a shit typing and doesn't actually do anything.

>>27786071
Still can't actually do shit except lie around and lay out hazards and status.

>>27786071
no, shuckle is taunt and setup bait incarnate

>>27786099
What about toxic/infestation?

Is Shuckle really that bad? It has spectacular defensive stats despite its low HP and mediocre typing. Is it really useless, even as a wall?

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Is there anyway to make poliwhirl, or any prevo not named chansey, useful?

>>27786220
Porygon2 is useful, mostly because PZ is a sidegrade rather than a direct boost.

Also no.

>>27786179
yes

>>27786173
That's an okay strategy at best, but chances are if the opponent switches in something to Shuckle, it already has something to circumvent that (Steel-typing, super effective moves, etc).

>>27786179
When calculated, Shuckle's overall defenses are merely equal to that of Phione. Even Klefki has better overall defenses.

That said, Stealth Rock + Sticky Web shenanigans is pretty good in its own right and got Shuckle banned from RU, so it's at least good at something.

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>>27786243
Fug

At least I have swift swim I guess.

>>27786220
>gligar
>fletchingder
>porygon2
>duscolps
>scyther
>sneasel
You're just stuck in OU, these pokemon can function amazingly in their own tiers, and might even serve nieches in other tiers. An you can run poliwrill ok, but its really hard to do so. I imagine with a rain team he can function as a utility pokemon given its speed, invest in bulk and hope for good aim while spamming usefull moves.

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>>27778176

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>120 attack

Shadow ball on him or Flareon was cool in gen 2-3 since it was phys

>>27786044
Charizard gets reliable recovery thanks for being part flying though. Sneaky Pebbles both fuck Typlosion and Charizard up anyway. With the former loosing Eruption's power and the latter getting half its health stripped away.

>>27786287
Infestation prevents switching though, unless they initially sent out a steel/poison type you could infestation/toxic. Not trying to argue shuckle is some unknown god but I imagine it has its uses.

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>115 attack
>115 special attack

Could have dropped the sp.atk for some speed or bulk. Most mixed attackers are lacking

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>>27786350
>not showing lopunny getting blocked completely by sableye before cheating to win
Deciever

>>27786315
Yeah I guess your right, I typically just imagine OU is what most people discuss.

>>27786451
Its the problem of being created in gen III. The special split was begining to limit how pokemon could run certain sets, so things like sceptile, blaziken, absol and cacturne were made this way to avoid this problem.

Nowadays they all needed improvements to be usefull, we just have to wait for cacturn's

>>27786469
Its alright, its an ok mistake. But you should check out those tiers, some pokemon can be real menaces with the right sets and equipment, even if they're not evolved. All you have to do is serach. For example: Vullaby is an amazing PU wall, there's a start

>>27782822
Seriously? It was important enough to mention it can't learn Crabhammer?

>"This Pokemon is so rare, our top scientist have deducted that it's probably a myth. What we can discern, however, is that it absolutely without a shadow of a doubt NEVER learn Crabhammer."

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>>27786552

>get rock
>description doesn't really fit
>whatever
>decide to fuck around and try to get steel
>can't figure out which answers are steel for the life of me

>>27786451
Good special attack helps. Sucker Punch is unreliable as your only Dark STAB move.
But like what >>27786511 said, it was designed to take advantage of both it's STABs when offensive categories where based on types.

>>27786552
hownew.ru

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>this thing has 125 speed
>and 120 attack
This is why you they make bulky ice types: they live in fear of what a second weavile might do to the meta

>>27786705
>>27786573
>falling for bait

>>27786667
Wrong thread

>>27778733
Making a format I like would require making my own monster-raising game from scratch, because i'm pretty sure it's not possible within this mess, but there's also nothing better on the market that i'm aware of.

>>27786744
Just imagine if Aurorus had Garchomp's base stats.

>>27783774
Onix doesn't learn constrict, wrap, or even coil. It's not a constrictor.

>>27783774
Constrictors have very powerfull fangs all over their mouth, they use those to stick to their prey too.

>>27786744
I almost think that Ice (and Freeze) being good in Gen I scarred Game Freak for life.

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> 555 base stat total
> fucking 555 base stat total makes it the highest non-legendary, non-mega pokemon you can readily get via fire stone
> its counterpart is a 9 tailed fox that has 50 points less than it

>>27778519
Pokemon Online used to be pretty popular, but it's faded in recent times.

>>27778250
>Meowstic used thunder wave
>Weezing used will-o-wisp
>Swampert used earthquake

>>27787336
>Higher Stat is 110

>>27787336
Archeops has higher BST. Not that it matters, there's plenty mons around the 500 range that are better than Arcanine will ever be. This has been true since Gen 1.

>>27787803
Min maxed 500 BST >>> spread out 600 BST all day ery day basically.

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>145 Base attack
>tough claws
>80/150/110 bulk
>110 speed
>that design
>that movepool
Jesus christ how horrifying is this thing

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>>27778381
>Isn't the only online Pokemon community
Those of us who use showdown 90% of the time will respectfully disagree

>If your favorite Mon is banned to Ubers, just play Ubers
This is retarded, because Greninja is now outclassed by everything in Ubers and sees zero usage. There should at the very least be an AG no-legends tier or something

>It's not the only competitive community, each one has its own rules
Sure, but the only other community is VGC which is very slow in comparison to showdown.

So, you know. Go fuck yourself.

>>27787849
Mediocre typing and offensive coverage though

>Hammer Arm

Ugh

>>27787849
Not to say it isn't amazingly good, but its also very easy to shut down. I specailly keep a will-o-wisp sableye with rocky helmet and it works perfectly against this guy, and I'm sure many more ways can stop it, loads of stuff walls it and being weak to knock off and earthquake doesn't help. It is outclassed by other megas for a reason right?

>>27787856
You can play VGC on showdown if you want to you faggot. Second biggest board on the smogon forum directly behind OU.

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>this thing only has 50 Base Attack

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>>27787849
>Bisharp used Suckerpunch

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>>27787922
>Huge Power lets it hit almost as hard as Groudon

>>27788089
not him, sorry but
252 Atk Life Orb Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Metagross: 234-276 (77.7 - 91.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

And

252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Hammer Arm vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Bisharp: 612-724 (225.8 - 267.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

So... yeah

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>giant fucking robot
>BST doesn't even reach 500

>>27784092
>>27784208
B-but I like Goodra's design.

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>535 BST
>Amazing HP
>everything else is average as fuck
I wish they had at least made lapras more fitting to its own inspiration and unique, by making it water/dragon. Its preposterous to believe in gen 1 they cared about balance so much they didn't make it that.

>>27788186
Well, not everyone has good taste. Goodra looks fucking terrible, what's worse is goomy and sligoo are great.

>>27788174
>caring this much about BST
Need I remind you a pokemon with 380 BST and mediocre stat distribution is know for being able to shut down whole teams in OU and UU?

>>27787881
Hammer Arm lets it beat Skarmory 1v1 without Whirlwind.

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>>27777916
>not knowing breelom elastic arms

>>27788261
sableye is a perfect storm of great typing and great ability covering it's low stats. How many other low bst shitmons can hold their own competitively?

>>27782369
It's good in RU if it means anything

>>27787774
Still better than Ninetales' 100s.

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>Base 150 HP

>>27788438
Breloom, gligar, quagsire, talonflame, chansey, skarmory, heliolisk and staraptor of the top of my head. All it takes is decnet typing, good spreads or a good ability. Golurk has 2 of those.

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>120 Attack

>Guts

>180

>The strongest Physical electric type Pokemon, even more than Zekrom

>>>>>>>>Strongest STAB move is 90 BP with Recoil

Why is this allowed

>>27788671
Luxray is shit because it's slow and brittle.

>>27788670
How is Gligar even good in competitive play? Gliscor has much better ability and can be paired with Toxic Orb

>>27788671
>120 Attack

>Guts

>180
That's not how stats work. You're looking at somewhere between base 189 and base 205.
>>27788733
Eviolite.

>>27788733
Gligar works as a defogger with no rock weakness, inmune to spikes and with reliable recovery, and stalling wall with eviolite and the inherent toxic inmunity. I don't really use it but it has its niche that no other pokemon can fit.

>>27788786
Well, Gliscor can do it better with Status inmunity and better HP

>>27788700
its got pretty decent defenses just a point off of arcanine. speed sucks though.

>>27788670
staraptor, heliolisk, and talonflame are definitely not low bst, but I'll give you the others.

>>27788845
Yeah I was wrong, it gets Intimidate and that shit actually does make a difference.

>>27788824
gliscor isn't allowed in uu

>>27788824
But gliscor serves another purpouse. It works better as anti-stall or as stall itself. The thing is its less bulky than gligar with evilite meaning he cant perform gligar's role as effectively.

Besides, Gliscor is OU for a reason

>>27788860
>talonflame has no stats over 81 except speed
I'm sorry for those two, I fucked up, but talonflame without gale wings would be RU/NU garbage

>>27788906
following up >>27788860
He asked for pokemon with less than 500 BST, so those all fit in, even talonflame.

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>>27788670
Don't forget this asshole.

>>27788931
One guy wanted golurk to have more than 500, then sableye was brought up with its 380, and I asked for other similar low bst pokes that were good, expecting sub 450 or so. There was never really a well defined number for "low"

Also need to add azumarill and diggersby to the list

>>27777475
>>27778145
reasons this guy is my fav

>>27789028
Oh, ok. I guess then those count, but there really are a lot of pokemon with low BSTs in the higher tiers. honestly, archeop's and sableye's positions singlehandedly prove abilities and typing trump BSTs and stat distributions.

>>27788238
This hurts me.

>>27786071
I would love for him to get leech seed

>>27783656
>>27783720
its at the end of emerald, at least

>>27785475
>Diancie predicts the U-Turn and uses HP Fire

>>27789244
>Scizor predicts the HP fire and uses bullet punch
The worst part is that this can happen and people will just say it was thoughtless button mashing

>>27788671

Tapu Koko will hopefully give Electric types the boost they need with automatic Electric Terrain

>>27788700

Speed isn't a problem if you set up good with things like Electroweb or boosts

He needs stronger attacks

It's better off using Facade over Wild Charge

>>27786071
if it had an ability that made it immune to taunt smogon would ban it

>>27788745

I was talking base stats alone

Guts increases attack stat by %50

Half of 120 is 60

Making 120 to 180

This isn't counting IV's and EV's and nature

>>27789428
Speed is a big ass problem. Luxray is a pokemon that largely fails because it's slow as shit. Wild Volt isn't even a bad move, the problem is that Luxray has fuckall for coverage options and can't set up well on its own either.

>>27789565
>Shucklefags

>>27789570
Actual stats and base stats are different. Guts calculates actual stats, not bases.

>>27786673
>>27786673


Both Grass and Dark were special in Gen III though so Cacturne didn't need high attack. Though every Dark attack move from gen II & III and Bite became physical after the special/physical split.

I always wonder if Dark was made special in Gen 2 by mistake and they just stuck with it during the 3rd gen..

>>27789570
But you can't discount IVs and EVs, since those get boosted too, along with the flat 5 points that go into every non-HP stat. Guts would never give a Pokemon with 120 base Attack an effective base attack stat of 180, since its actual attack stat would be higher than that of an unboosted base 180 Pokemon with the same level, EVs, and IVs.

With no EV investment, Guts would boost Luxray's attack to be equal to an unboosted base 189; with maximum EV investment it would be equal to an unboosted base 205 or so.

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>>27777522
Onix is a joke
>>27781460
Somehow I never looked at Miltanks stats, the things an absolute monster wtf

also
>5 less total stats then reuniclus
>outclassed in distribution as well as abilities

>>27787148
GF needs to make Ice types great again

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>this fucking cheater

>>27790415
What was gamefreak's thinking

>>27788261
Anything can be shut down with wildly broken abilities like Prankster no matter how low its stats are.

>>27791195
The point is abilities >> stats. Golurk has no guard, which is a very good ability, since it gives him 100% accuracy dynamic punch and stone edge. You just need to know when and how to use it.

>>27785946
No, shedinja having points in SpD and Def and learning substitute, endure, and final gambit is a walking joke.

>>27791492
I'm pretty sure that's balance. Well, the defense and special defense stats that is, maybe not the same about the substitute and final gambit.

Endure is usefull for weakness policy shenanigans. But not even specs can make a rampardos usable specially.

>>27787803
It's also got a gimp ability.

Lugia is the fastest box legendary.

>>27779633

Onix was a hip and happening Pokemon in Gen 5 NU, because of its high Speed + Taunt.

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>it has actually a pretty decent defensive stat spread of 75/90/90

>>27778287

>bro

ha ha

>>27787917
Is there a VGCderp? I kinda wanna see someone play that...

>>27778038
>>27777582
>these 160atk monsters learn skill swap
>>27788100
>huge power makes this tiny rabbit a fearsome beast

Guys? Guuuuys??

>>27792116
What do you want us to say? "Wow, that's so OP"?

>>27791246
Golurk is shit precisely because his stats are so bad and he doesn't actually get a ton of mileage out of No Guard.

>>27792147
Nah, that's for when I point out that M-MewtwoX with its 190 gets skillswap too.

>>27792216
This.

Everytime I look at golurk, I look at its stats and go "why?" For something so large, its defenses are actually kind of shit, No Guard doesn't do anything outside of boost one notable move, it gets no good Ghost attacks, and its burdened by a million weaknesses.

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I'm surprised how well this thread turned out, thanks everybody for actually keeping consistent interesting discussion all throughout the day. Its such a rarity nowadays on /vp/.

>>27778643
Doubles is more skill based. You can't solve everything by switching to chansey and using toxic on the switch in.

>>27792392
You can however solve everything by spamming Dark Void and hoping for a moody evasion boost, so fuck you and your "skillz".

>>27786350
BTFO

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>>27786552