Why do these games get so much hate?

>>27159704
Because Unovabortions can't accept that more people care about Gen 1 and Lucario than their shit generation.

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>>27159738

new game

>>27159704
Because Pokemon has always been easy and the kids that grew up are just realizing it now.

>>27159704
Only 70 new pokemon, bad story, bad characters, handholding, excessive gen 1 pandering and no postgame

Because they're shallow garbage that lack anything of worth to do, the mons are almost equally bad, and the only memorable locations in the region are a cave and Anistar City?

The main reasons are:
-only 72 new pokemon
-story is pretty linear and all the interesting plots are left unfinished and a lot of questions are unanswered
-the champion is boring and has undeveloped character
-no postgame

Grabbed Wiltering Y, never played the originals. We'll see just how much better these games are when they're challenging, like Super Mystery Dungeon.

Because they came directly after the game that had so much side stuff to do among other issues.

>>27159788
>excessive gen 1 pandering
There is nothing wrong with this. Gen 1 is the most memorable and iconic.

>>27159704
Because its the latest geneartion, wait tll December when people will suddnely "realize" that Sun and Moon "are absolutely worst Pokemon games to date because.."(insert reasons) and "pokemon is dead" like always

>>27159824
only because it was a fad once, get over yourself

>>27159704
>>27153156

>>27159788
So besides the 70 Pokemon thing it's literary the same as all the games that start a gen

>>27159850
Thats like saying gen 4 was a test for gen 5 and gen 1 was a test for gen 2

>>27159840
thisthisthisthisthis


People hate Gen VI because they ran out of things to feel entitled about and because they're long standing fans of pokemon they choose to associate themselves with the series in such a way so as to make it a part of their identity, thereby choosing to attack anybody also a part of the more hardcore fanbase who disagrees with their views because like a kooked out zany ADD kid, they think of it as being a direct insult to them

>>27159744
i mean, he didn't lie

>>27159704
Because it's a beta test for their 3D engine.

>>27159861
No because Gen 5 was still bad and Platnium and HG/SS were better than BW and B2W2

>>27159853
With nothing to follow it up and make Kalos good.
Even then, it lacks more to do than your average first games.
GS had National Park.
RS had contests AND secret bases.
DP also had contests plus underground.
BW had the Pokémon Musical thing that no one did but it was there.
Not to mention Game Corners pre-gen 5.

>>27159876

What is the basis of that comment? Oh wait, there is none.

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>>27159890

>>27159704
This is just my opinion, but I felt the games were unfinished.

There are certain places that looked like they were meant to be accesible, but that ended being left out at the last minute, like the other half of the power plant and the Ryhorn race tracks.

Speaking of Ryhorn races, I was also a bit dissapointed that there wasn't a mini game about it. Or a mini game in which you had to ride any other Pokémon, for that matter, given these games introduced that feature.

The plot was also a let down. I know, I know, Pokémon games in general have simple storylines, but XY's one was just a mess. Team Flare's goal were way too similar to Team Galatic's, and when it seemed that the box legendaries weren't playing any role in the plot, they shoehorned them at the last minute, having Profesor Sycamore talk to you about them for no reason at all, and then them somehow appearing in Team Flare's base. The place where they originally found them is nowhere to be seen, and maybe it was another of the locations that got scrapped out. Not to mention X's plot makes no sense at all: Hey, let's use the Pokémon of life to... to kill everyone!

All in all, the games felt as if they were unfinished. They definitely had potential for much more.

>>27159744
I bet you were waiting all day to use that image, weren't you?

Cause SM so far is looking like not shit as compared to XY? Even if we only have trailers that amount to moving screenshots of the game, SM has been ticking all the boxes XY should have been ticking from the start. Bringing back XY features that are greatly expanded don't help either.

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>>27159897
Fuck your post game side content shit. I'm more pissed at how shallow XY's main game was.

>>27159906
>Speaking of Ryhorn races, I was also a bit dissapointed that there wasn't a mini game about it. Or a mini game in which you had to ride any other Pokémon, for that matter, given these games introduced that feature.
Yet another thing Alola has cucked Kalos with.

>>27159704
Well common arguments include
>I'm a big boi and it's too easy wahhh
When they could just do a restrictive challenge

>Waah 70 pokemon
They fail to include mega evolutions which definitely count as new content

>Games are too linear
How is this a problem when it's story driven for the main game and not like any Pokemon games were open world, you could explore like two cities with fucked up level scaling, wow

>No post-game
Yeh maybe by their own definition, the competitive scene is its own postgame as well as filling the national dex. Many people can get 100s of hours out of it

>Panders to <insert gen>
This makes it bad how? Marketing towards an older generation, recreating certain elements for the younger. I fail to see how that ruins a game.

>Too kiddie
It's a fucking kids game

>Lack of a good story/characters
That's really the only thing I can agree on but you're doing something wrong if you expect a good story or characters from a Pokemon game. The characters just lacked Le edgy nothing personnel rivals. You can also argue the story and characters were barebones because the games were appealing to younger shitters but yeh it was a let down

>>27159853
Not really. RB, GS and BW didn't have all of these problems

>>27159906
harnessing the pokemon that grants life's power means you can do with it as you choose, and surely the forced concentration of the power to grant life being applied to a machine of some sort can alter that power to fit its purpose

>>27159911
Only thing that I see SM doing right so far is bringing back EXP scaling. I don't see any other indication of it being a good game, what am I not seeing?

>>27159917
Funnily enough, nothing I posted was post-game. If we go by first versions DP has the most side content and post-game alone, as an entire island to explore is unlocked.

>>27159934
LOL sure, the story in gen 1-2 was the shittiest there is

>>27159897
And instead you get a really fast way to get BP which is actually useful but people still complain.
>>27159917
So again, like every game that starts a new generation

>>27159911
>SM has been ticking all the boxes XY should have been ticking from the start

Like what?

>>27159959
>LOL
Underage detected.
And the good thing about RB and GS's stories is that they weren't intrusive and didn't get in the way of actual gameplay.

>>27159911
Good optimism but no proof

>>27159897
gen 6 had amie, super training (all minigames), pr videos

>>27159965
>BP
How does that make up for side content at all?
That's another problem with XY, Sneasel and Gligar's evolution items are locked until post-game.

>>27159977
Which means they were shit and shouldn't of been there

>>27159977
>And the good thing about RB and GS's stories is that they weren't intrusive and didn't get in the way of actual gameplay
Yeah and the bad thing was that they were absolutely shit with the shittiest and easiest evil team out there

>>27159985
>Amie
Not side content. It's a neat little feature, but isn't on the scale of what was listed.
Same with Super Training and I'm genuinely shocked that someone remembers PR videos.

>>27159992
I agree, this can be applied to every mainline Pokémon game.

>>27159997
See above.

>>27159934
Hello?
-All those games were easy
-2/3 of those games had no post game or good post game at the very least
-shallow story
-2/3 of those games have Gen 1 pandering

Sure, they lacked handholding but that's irrelevant as the games are already easy.

>>27160008
>Listed actual side content
>"I dont like it so it doesnt count!!!"

Lel

>>27160008
You can't argue lack of post game, just lack of GOOD post game

>>27160023
Eh I guess so, at this point I just skip through all of it

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>>27159704
>Why do these games get so much hate?
Because /vp/ is full of contrarians. That's literally the only real reason. XY were extremely well received everywhere outside of /vp/, being the best selling 3DS games of 2013 worldwide and the best selling games altogether in Japan that year. The reviews that these games got were pretty much exclusively positive and overall better than /vp/'s waifu games BW2 (pic related).

The truth is that the people who actually play Pokemon games and don't just whine enjoy XY. For example, I've been watching PokeaimMD and Shofu's XY Nuzlocke videos and in many episodes they just talk about how great games XY are and how awesome it was to play these games for the first time. Even on /vp/, if you go to the threads where people actively trade and battle (/wfg/ being the most important recurring general of this kind), you'll see that the people who frequent those threads enjoy XY very much due to the major improvements on online battling and trading as well as breeding and EV training.

The truth is that XY are well liked games everywhere among the Pokemon community outside of /vp/. If you look closely, you'll see that a very large part of /vp/ doesn't seem to enjoy any Pokemon games other than BW2, so I wouldn't put much value on their opinions. XY and ORAS are my favorite Pokemon games and there are many people out there who agree with me. They just never visit this contrarian shithole.

>>27159991
How is the side content relevant though? Does it benifit PvP? No?
Are those things actually fun or useful in any way? No
I mean since we can include shitty side content, what about the building by the daycare that's so irrelevant that i forget the name but you battled people for a higher rating and extreme amounts of money? At least it benefited you in some way

I liked it. To me Gen 5 was the dead gen. No notable features from it persist, with Eviolite being the only new concept I actually enjoyed in it.

>>27160053
>i need critics to tell me what's good or bad

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>>27159704
Sinnohfoeti are the board majority right now, which is also why Platinum and HGSS are so meme right now despite being subpar games. But the Kalosperms are rising, and BW2's popularity with them, so we may soon see a paradigm shift.

>>27160179
Not him but meta critic scores are composed of user reviews too and you ignored the main points

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>>27160100
>No notable features from it persist
Repel wore out! Use another?
Unlimited TMs
HAs
Triples and Rotation

>>27160197
Doesn't matter. You dismiss a group of people's opinion in favor of another to form your opinion.

>/vp/ doesn't seem to enjoy any Pokemon games other than BW2, so I wouldn't put much value on their opinions

But somehow random critics that may pr may not have been paid to give good ratings are okay. Yeah no

>>27159931
>When they could just do a restrictive challenge

Not all players have fun by limiting themselves. That's creating artificial difficulty. As for my personal experience, I'm not a competitive player so I found BW2's difficulty to be decent enough so that I'm not either completely wrecking or getting wrecked. Having bought Y on release day, I didn't know whether the game was balanced around EXP share or not so I let the game decide for me and left it as I got it and realized too late that my pokemon were overleveled. Not to mention trying out amie, I unknowingly got my pokemon got the 1.2x bonus exp. Combined with the fact that they removed exp scaling and the old exp share, and catching point still yeilds exp, I found it annoying and hard keeping my team both underleveled and balanced.

I think the main issue would be solved if they made exp scaling into a key item as well as reintroduce difficulty settings.

>70 pokemon
Never bugged me that much. The design's were mostly pretty well done except for a few.

>How is this a problem when it's story driven for the main game and not like any Pokemon games were open world, you could explore like two cities with fucked up level scaling, wow

Agreed. Pokemon games were never open world, they've always been linear. All you do is go from one map to the next, sometimes you get a choice between going to 2-3 maps but 2 of them will have roadblocks.

>Yeh maybe by their own definition, the competitive scene is its own postgame as well as filling the national dex. Many people can get 100s of hours out of it

Not everyone is into competitive. It's easy to get disappointed at XY's post game coming from BW2, which had a TON of quality content for post game.

(Cont.)

>>27159931
>>27160252
>This makes it bad how? Marketing towards an older generation, recreating certain elements for the younger. I fail to see how that ruins a game.

I wouldn't mind it so much if they didn't shove it in our faces. They needed to be more subtle about it. If you focus too much on the pandering, it starts feeling shallow.

>It's a fucking kids game
Agreed. Why am I still playing the series? Why are you still playing this series? Why does this board exist? We're all fucking autistic. No really though, it's possible to strike a balance between both old players and new players but GF clearly doesn't give a shit.

>That's really the only thing I can agree on but you're doing something wrong if you expect a good story or characters from a Pokemon game. The characters just lacked Le edgy nothing personnel rivals. You can also argue the story and characters were barebones because the games were appealing to younger shitters but yeh it was a let down

Seriously, GF is rolling in cash. Why can't they hire a decent writer? There have been tons of stories that appeal to all ages.


As for my personal gripe with XY, it's how they handled the box legends. Ever since XY was announced and we got details on them and theories were being formed left and right, I was so hyped for all the possibilities that they could go with Xerneas and Yveltal. But in the end we find them in the fucking lab of all places. They barely get to be in the story or have significant role. Catching them felt underwhelming and forced.

>>27160197
>you ignored the main points
Just like you choose to ignore those who point out why Gen5 games are good. Wow. It's almost like everybody has bias and opinions

>>27160197
Well you sure showed me with that high quality reply.

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>>27159965
>So again, like every game that starts a new generation

I found BW's main game to be the best though because of all the convention breaking they did.

>>27160199
The only one up there people really enjoy is the inevitable TM reusability. Triples and Rotation are gimmicks; only Doubles has ever been a genuinely captivating mode with some depth to it. Repel replacing is nice but a minor QOL change. HA is a glorified addition of Abilities: it's the Dream World that would actually count as a legacy of sorts and it's dead.

Megas and the shift to 3D overshadows anything done in Gen 5, which just felt like a weird extension of Gen 4 to me.

>>27160235
Not really
Majority opinion > A few shitposters with weak arguments

Yes I'm dismissing spergs that spout the same shit in every thread and then when people who like the games explain why, they go into a fit of autistic paragraphs and try to point out logical fallacies here and there without actually trying to comprehend that yes a majority of people like this and I don't
And no I played the game from release and didn't touch any reviews, still loved the game. Is it so hard to believe that other people can 'think' for themselves and come to the conclusion that it's a good game

>>27160272
Oops, meant to reply to >>27160179 obviously.

>>27160008
>I'm genuinely shocked that someone remembers PR videos.

Only one I remember was don't drop that dedenne.

>>27160268
Did I ever say they were bad faggot, I enjoyed gen 5 and 6 neither were bad

>>27160252
>>27160266
I can agree with your arguments

But yeah Pokemon is something I could never grow out of, just like how bronie fags can like a little girl cartoon, we can like a kids game. It's just a weak argument when someone complains the game doesn't cater towards them when they're aware of the target audience

>>27160199
>HAs
I love how unovabortions are so desperate that they actually count Hidden Abilities as a major new addition. Hidden Abilities are literally just Abilities that are a bit harder to get. That's it. That's not a big addition, we've had Abilities since Gen III. Unlimited TMs and "Would you like to use another Repel?" are very convenient, sure, but even together with HAs and the two gimmick battle formats they're nowhere near the level of introducing new types, natures, abilities, held items, breeding, special stat split, physical/special split and mega evolutions. The fact is that Gen V didn't bring much to the table.

Because Nintendo stop giving a fuck about the actual game and started focus on the competitive fags and the whole "eSports" shit, I mean, being able to manipulate that IV EV shit on ORAS and that easy as fuck mode of EXP. Share + nerfing the fuck out the gyms and elite four really killed the game for me as a hoennfag.

>>27160368
But there were new abilities and held items introduced? And all nature combinations are used up you nigger. I guess you mean to say there weren't any actual mechanical changes on the level of D/P. The game introduced in battle Sprite animations and improved graphics on handheld which was pretty hype at the time.

>>27159906
>There are certain places that looked like they were meant to be accesible, but that ended being left out at the last minute, like the other half of the power plant and the Ryhorn race tracks.
>Speaking of Ryhorn races, I was also a bit dissapointed that there wasn't a mini game about it. Or a mini game in which you had to ride any other Pokémon, for that matter, given these games introduced that feature.

It's right there and they introduced the concept in a way where it was clearly supposed to be something.

I just don't get why it was cut. 90% of the work on it is in the game.

Personally I loved XY. They were fun games and at the end of the day that's all I can ask for.

>>27160293

Rotation battles can be fun, but triple battlers were pretty shitty.

I hated the reusable TMs myself. I get that they're nice from a competitive standpoint but they kind of ruined a lot of the fun of figuring out what to do with a TM when you get it.

>>27160435
>But there were new abilities and held items introduced?
That's not what I meant. I was talking about held items and abilities altogether as new game mechanics.

>>27160411
They buffed the E4 not nerfed

>>27160471
Eh I guess so, but you can't argue that it wasn't a big technological improvement. Gameplay felt smoother and faster than gen 4 and below. It felt like a 'testing the waters, playing it safe' game before GF coming out with bw2 then Gen 6

>>27159704
>mostly boring and generic music that has short loops
>0 post game
>easy as piss
>NOT EVEN THE ELITE 4 REMATCHES CHANGE
>incredibly empty overworld
>shitty story and characters that felt like it was trying to be like bw but failed
>too many rivals
>to many pokemon shoved into one dex
>least amount of new Pokemon out of every generation
I could go on

>>27160297
> A few shitposters with weak arguments
You mean to tell me having an actual
viridian forest 2.0 AND a saffron gym 2.0 in the same game is shitposting to you? Those are valid complaints. You buy a new game, you expect new content.

I have played all games and grew up with RBY--the Kanto pandering isn't funny anymore. It's fucking tedious.

Only 16% of the dex are new mons--I guess that's just shitposting to you, too, huh? Again, people expect new stuff. Not saying there shouldn't be any old pokemon but at least fix the damn ratio that new ones aren't fucking diluted by pokemon i've seen and caught for the 87th time. Scripted pidgey as first encounter? Free kanto starters? Free lapras? Snorlax subplot rehash? They aren't bad individually, but all together they're cheap. And just because you don't feel the same way doesn't make any of these complaints any less valid. They are objective attempts at nostalgia--you're just lucky you haven't grown tired of them yet

The EXP/level curve is atrocious even without Exp share and this is a legitimate complaint. BW scaled exp so you arent boosting 20 levels ahead of the trainers around you. You think that's shitposting?

Villainous teams have ambiguous goals and are not fleshed out as well as Plasma. Admins are literally whos and the leader has such weak dialogue and pacing that you face him like 3-4 times during the culmination of their plot. Leaders go back to being bland cutout characters after Unovan leaders actually helping you in their respective cities AND the climactic battle. The champion is such a nonfactor in all these. The box legends have bare bones lore and shoehorned last minute in the weapon instead of being sought out/tracked into the wildest, most forlorn locations with immense lore and history around it. Still think it's all shitpost and weak argument?

>>27160495
That is not even going through crap like useless Sky Battles that completely fail as a new battle format, empty as fuck buildings like that aquarium, wasted potential of rhyhorn races ans that race track in cyllage that had absolutely nothing but aesthetics

>>27160470
>they kind of ruined a lot of the fun of figuring out what to do with a TM when you get it
Nothing. Most players did nothing with the TMs when they got them because they could be used only once

>>27160495
This will be ignored because no criticism is valid towards Kalos in the mind of these idiots.

>>27160495
Yes I think you're trying hard to present personal gripes as hard evidence of the games being bad, if you take in to account the target audience, normal teens, normal kids or people who haven't played the games since RBY the "pandering" would be refreshing and nostalgic. Remolding parts of their most successful games with current technology is fine, it's a throwback, you act like its a personal attack m on you. Literally no one except /vp/ Autists complain about which is why I said it's a shitpost, they bring nothing new and fail to explain why exactly it's bad other than oh umm yeh it just sucks!! Regardless, that made up only 10% of the actual game, the rest was new content.
Nothing is wrong with 70 Pokemon, the number is fine, there's a good amount to catch and you'll use like what 20% of that on a single play through? Not to mention the introduction of Megas. The exp curve was fine because it meant you didn't have to grind, you complained about tedium?
And yes complaining about a shitty story in Pokemon is tired and old, they can't formulate a story for shit but it gets the job done, not everyone plays the game for the story butt rather for the Pokemon themselves so that's your own personal gripe.

TL;DR -- A majority of people liked XY and they have the right to

>>27160495
I swear, Gen 6 felt like it was made by a different team than Gen 5. The amount of backward steps they took was unbelievably disappointing.

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>>27160494
>>0 post game
I want this meme to die. Gen VI has pretty much infinite post-game at the moment since you can battle other people online. That's the real post-game at least for me. Why would I want to fight the same AI sets over and over again when I could be having real battles that are not only more challenging but infinitely more rewarding? When you have beaten the Pokemon League in BW2, there's honestly not much to do. You run through a couple of towns and then you can battle those same AI sets that you've already fought a billion times, but I guess that's good post-game according to /vp/. I had over 800 hours clocked in my first X save file because I bred and trained competitive Pokemon and battled people on Battle Spot and Wifi General. How's that for "zero post-game"? I didn't even participate in any online competitions even though those would have given me even more stuff to do. It would be great if all the whiners actually played the damn games. Besides, Gen VI also has infinite amounts of repetitive AI battles in the form of Battle Maison. The thing is that having more battle facilities that do pretty much the exact same thing doesn't make the post-game any better.

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>>27160495
>It's a unova kid shitting the bed because nobody takes his garbage gen seriously post

I cannot stop loling tbqhwy

>>27160601
>TL;DR I actually don't care about your personal opinion but my own opinion is right

FTFY

>>27160601
>not everyone plays the game for the story butt rather for the Pokemon themselves
But it's OK when Kalos loses focus on the Pokémon themselves and only introduces 72.

>>27160613
>brief answer
Lel no argument!
>detailed explanation
Lel shitting the bed

>>27160623
That's the point you spaz. More people liked the game than hated it

>>27160636
How the fuck does that make them good?

>>27160649
You said or poster said that 'Le critics don't matter they're probably paid' when you can't accept that people just like something you don't then you preach the same shit

>>27160636
Yes and? The thread asked why people hate the games. We gave the answer.

Even if you're so sure about that fact, why do you have the need to do a virtual crusade against the haters if they're the minority?

>>27160663
That doesn't explain why that makes them good.
>preach the same shit
Maybe because they're valid fucking arguments and you're dismissing them like a child because you can't accept that XY have flaws?

>>27160601
>The exp curve was fine because it meant you didn't have to grind, you complained about tedium?

Even kids will get bored if all they do is 1 shot everything with the press of a button. Especially in a turn based game.

>>27160669
Ah no you gave irrelevant cry baby logic and a personal opinion, which was refuted with other personal opinions do you know discussions work. Have your opinion but don't be a hypocrite about it. The point was, the game was well received, you said wah critics don't matter but you can't see outside your little bubble. I acknowledge that it has flaws but I don't believe those flaws make it a bad game which I argued

>>27160663
>Critics give out personal opinions
Yaaas. Objective truth! Preach it!
>players give out personal opinions
That's just your own personal problems with the game

This is how you sound especially in >>27160601

>>27160674
No I never said they don't exist I argued that they weren't as bad as presented

>>27160691
>irrelevant cry baby logic and a personal opinion
Opinions on a game--how do they fucking work?

>>27160697
I never said critics were objective truth I said argued that just because they give good scores doesn't mean they're paid

>>27160714
So it is cry baby logic?

>>27160691
>Have your opinion but don't be a hypocrite about it.
No, you're the hypocrite. I am answering based on my personal opinion. The critics are, too. And that's their right. It's you who chooses whose opinion is "right".

Fur fag pandering

>>27159704
Newest games syndrome

>>27160724
If that makes you feel better, sure.

>>27160495
>BW scaled exp so you arent boosting 20 levels ahead of the trainers around you
Funny that you say this since literally every single time I've played BW my team has been overleveled starting from the third Gym. The games give you way too much xp when compared to the low level differences between Gym Leaders. This is not an issue in XY if you turn off the Exp Share.

>Only 16% of the dex are new mons--I guess that's just shitposting to you, too, huh?
Quality > quantity for me please. I don't mind the small amount of new Mons introduced in Gen VI since most of those Mons have great designs. It's not really a good thing that Gen V introduced so many new Mons since it had pretty much all of the ugliest designs in the entire series along with the worst starters and most pointless legendaries.

>They are objective attempts at nostalgia
How is this a bad thing?

>Villainous teams have ambiguous goals and are not fleshed out as well as Plasma. Admins are literally whos and the leader has such weak dialogue and pacing that you face him like 3-4 times during the culmination of their plot.
Nice opinions

>The box legends have bare bones lore and shoehorned last minute in the weapon instead of being sought out/tracked into the wildest, most forlorn locations with immense lore and history around it
Xerneas and Yveltal are greats designs tho unlike the bland dragons in Gen V. Besides, what's this "deep lore" you're talking about? It's literally just "one side is for truth, the other for ideals". Damn, that's some deep lore right there.

>>27160731
Jesus Christ do you listen, you can't except the fact that a large majority of people like the game and argue all this to convince me what exactly? I never gave my opinion on the game except for explaining how I thought the flaws didn't detract the overall experience. I thought it was mediocre but I can see why it is well received

>>27160749
>Quality > quantity
Truly a shame that Kalos had neither.

>>27160769
I wish I could use that "Free reply" picture right now but your post has less than 10 words.

>>27160749
>nice opinions
Nice non-counterargument

>>27160778
Honestly, you should be happy you're getting (You)s at all, drone.

>>27160778
Gen 5 gave Bug fans a ton of quality designs while XY only left them with another generic Butterfree clone. Let that sink in for a moment.

>>27160769
It was a high quality game with a shortage of -quantity-

>>27160495
Approaching anti-greninja guy there

>>27160819
Many typefags were shafted for the fairy meme.

>>27160823
Kalos has a total of 7 quality mons out of 72.

>>27160835
>>27160633

>>27160788
What counter arguments do I have if someone doesn't like the villains? That's your opinion and not a real reason for the games being bad. Personally I think the Looker sidequest storyline is great and it really made Xerosic one of the most interesting villains in the series, but that's just my opinion.

>>27160835
>>27160846
Fuck off retard.

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>>27160749
>Xerneas and Yveltal are greats designs tho unlike the bland dragons in Gen V. Besides, what's this "deep lore" you're talking about? It's literally just "one side is for truth, the other for ideals". Damn, that's some deep lore right there.

>he's actually defending one of the most universally claimed flaws of XY

I mean, I agree that Xerneas and Yveltal have much better designs than minimalist dragons but you'd need brain damage to be able to think that they were implemented even a fraction of how well BW's box legends were.

>>27160848
>That's your opinion and not a real reason for the games being bad
But your opinion becomes a reason for the games being good? Got it!

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Posting here too, just for added Unova kid tears.

>You fell for the "Unova isn't shit!!" meme

Embarrassing to be honest.
As somebody who is an actual adult that grew up playing each gen, I can without a doubt say gen 5 is by far the worst gen we've ever had. Easily.

>Absolutely garbage dex
>99% of that dex is filled with abominations
>Literal kids embarrassing themselves by saying trash designs like Krookodile and Hydreigon are good
>Piss poor difficulty no matter how you play the game
>Unmemorable as fuck characters (I cannot remember a single gym leader/elite 4 member)
Only character that is the exception to this is N who is alright.
>Garbage team with garbage ideals

Gen 6 is far better. While both are piss easy playing normally, gen 6 is universally agreed upon as providing the hardest challenge as far as Nuzlocking goes.

The only legitimate praise I can give to gen 5 is that it has the best OST. That's literally it.

As somebody who had lost faith in Pokemon when gen 5 reared its ugly head, X&Y were a breath of fresh air and instilled some hope into me. Sure, ORAS sapped a portion of that hope away but at least Sun and Moon are shaping up to be pretty good.

Gen 6 as a whole isn't great, but X and Y are. I speak as somebody who, at first, was furious that we were getting such a tiny amount of new pokemon.
Color me surprised when almost the entire dex is filled with 8+/10 pokemon, minus 1-2 designs.

>>27160849
Retards* and nah you're really approaching anti-greninja

>>27160749
>Funny that you say this since literally every single time I've played BW my team has been overleveled starting from the third Gym. The games give you way too much xp when compared to the low level differences between Gym Leaders. This is not an issue in XY if you turn off the Exp Share
Not true, in gen 5 being overlevelled by more than 5 levels requires grinding, while in Gen 6 is achievable by simply playing the game, even with exp share on off

>Quality > quantity for me please
Opinion

>How is this a bad thing?
It removes uniqueness from the game and instead of using references it just recycles thing from previous games( mostly the Gen 1 ones)

>Nice opinions
These are facts. Can you tell me all the names of Team Flare Admins?

>Xerneas and Yveltal are greats designs tho unlike the bland dragons in Gen V. Besides, what's this "deep lore" you're talking about? It's literally just "one side is for truth, the other for ideals". Damn, that's some deep lore right there.
The search for Reshirm/Zekrom was part of the main plot and their backstory was fleshed out( you may not like it, but that's not the point), while Team Flare just has the legendary as an energy source without any explanation on how they found it

>>27160877
Except that wasn't me. Which you'll dismiss anyway. Whatever

>>27160871
Not poster, but yes a nitpick does not make a game objectively bad. Opinions --- how do they work. Your logic is convincing no one

>>27160876
Delete this post right now

>>27160907
Well the way you're going, ALL complaints against XY are nothing but personal petty nitpicks. It must be so nice riding that high horse.

>>27160871
It's clear to me now that you haven't even read my posts. From the very start I've been saying that XY have been received extremely well everywhere outside of /vp/, and that's the truth. I honestly can't explain the contrarian rage of this board against Gen VI, but it's a phenomenon that's happening only here. Not once have I said that the games are good because of my opinions. Maybe you mistaking me for some others poster, maybe you're just fishing for (You)'s, I don't know and I honestly don't even care much at this point.

>>27160876
>my other thread failed so i'm going to join the shitshow here

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>>27160876
Holy shit, how will gen 5 autists ever recover?

>>27160916
That is actually true since majority opinion outweighs minority, exponentially
Keep trying to change the world buddy, nearly everyone thinks it's a solid game

>>27160937
>Rinfag
>Fatefag in general
What a shock.

>>27160939
Cont

Not to mention the entire argument started with a factual statement that it was well received
>>27160929

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>>27160876
>mfw I didn't fall for the gen 5 meme
>mfw the only person I know irl who likes gen 5 is some kid with literal down syndrome

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>>27160876

>Absolutely garbage dex
Also true for XY

>99% of that dex is filled with abominations
Objectively False
>Literal kids embarrassing themselves by saying trash designs like Krookodile and Hydreigon are good
Opinions

>Piss poor difficulty no matter how you play the game
True for every game

>Unmemorable as fuck characters (I cannot remember a single gym leader/elite 4 member)
Only character that is the exception to this is N who is alright.
Also true for XY

>Garbage team with garbage ideals
Also true for XY

Thank you for confirming that both gen 5 and gen 6 are garbage. Platinum and HGSS are the best game and nothing else will ever come close to them

>>27160939
>majority opinion outweighs minority
Yeah just like when everybody believed the earth was flat. Or that it was the center of the solar system. No. That statement is not absolutely true

>>27160929
>contrarian rage
Yes, everyone that disagrees with you is simply a contrarian. There is no valid reason to dislike XY. They have no flaws, after all. I'm

>>27160965
Except that it's a game and all information was present around it. You had lets plays, seribii guides, many many reviews, strategy guides. You can't compare the retarded age of humanity to now where everything is on the Internet for research

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It felt like a Pokemon theme park, or a single-player MMO. It's hard for me to describe, but I had a hard time taking Kalos seriously.

>>27160894
>Not true, in gen 5 being overlevelled by more than 5 levels requires grinding
I just replayed Black a while ago and I was around three levels above the gym leaders even though I actively avoided trainer battles. This has happened in every single playthrough.
>while in Gen 6 is achievable by simply playing the game, even with exp share on off
Confirmed for having never played XY.

>Can you tell me all the names of Team Flare Admins?
No, but that doesn't really count for much since I don't think I can name any admin from any team let alone recognize them. They're all forgettable.

>>27160968
No retard, anyone that disagrees with the MAJORITY is contrarian how hard is it to understand in your small mind

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>>27160964
>Unova underage literally now false flagging as a different gen lover because he has just been well and truly blown the fuck out
Pottery.

>>27160968
>Yes, everyone that disagrees with you is simply a contrarian
That's not what I'm saying, but I know you want your (You)'s. Obviously when the rest of the Pokemon community (fans and critics alike) like XY a lot while pretty much everyone on this board hates those games, there's some sort of contrarianism going on.

>>27160837
>Kalos has a total of 7 quality mons out of 72.

>>27160998

>The game is too short and barebones compared to HGSS, DPPt, BW, BW2 and ORAS.

>Making the game story driven made it boring.

>Competitive is great but can't sustain all the game. That's why ORAS has tons of stuff to do.

I think the game is great but ORAS blows it out of the water and has everything XY has and more.

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>>27160964
>Also true for XY
Wrong.
The entirety of gen 6's dex besides the Aromatise line is amazing.

The entirety of the gen 5 dex is pure dog shit besides Crustle, Volcorona, Haxorus and Reuniclus.

The rest of your post is just you crying your eyes out lmao.

>>27160876
>gen 6 is universally agreed upon as providing the hardest challenge as far as Nuzlocking goes
stopped reading there

>>27161084
He's right though. Gen 6 is by far the hardest to nuzlocke as far as mainline games go.

>>27161084
This is how far the denial reaches

>>27161084
>shitter who has never nuzlocked a pokemon game in his life chimes in
Why would you make it so easy to spot?

>>27161084
BTFO go back to your tear stained Gen V shrine

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>>27161054
Wrong.

The entirety of Gen 5's dex besides garbador and vanilluxe lines is amazing.

The entirety of Gen 6's dex is pure dog shit besides Pangoro, Noivern, and Xerneas.

Also your opinion is shit and objectively false.

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>>27161084
Good job outting yourself as an assblasted Unova kid.
If there's one thing that he said that is correct, it's that X and Y are harder to nuzlocke than pretty much any other official game.

>>27161084
Guys I don't think he can handle anymore roasting

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>>27161113
>You will never be as shitter shattered as this fanboy right here
Lads, I'm gonna need you to help me locate my sides.

>>27161145
Ah where's this image from-- This is my fetish

>>27161145
>he can't handle his own ad homenum being used against him so he continues to hide behind his le smug animu reaction pics

Holy shit, anon. How much of a cookie cutter assblasted faggot can you be? I'm curious to see how long you can keep this up.

>>27159704
Everything in XY, that wasn't copypasted from Gen 1, was done better in Gen 4
>Lysandre is just Cyrus but worse
>Diantha is just Cynthia but worse
>Korrina is just Maylene but worse
>Lumiose City is just Jubilife city but worse
>Route 13 is just the Great Marsh but worse
>Kiloude City is just Fight Area but worse

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>>27161204
Please nigga, you've copied every single one of my posts and said it back in a desperate attempt to save face.
It is pure comedy gold to watch if I'm honest.

>>27161118
>>27161111
>>27161100
>>27161099
>>27161089
>"I have never nuzlocked Pokemon Red or Blue"
Original rules, 1 pokemon per route, the first one, none of this species clause bullshit.
Also
>Implying I'm defending gen 5
Get over yourselves Kalosperms.

>>27161235
>Desperate research, grasping at straws to recover from anal annihilation

>>27161235
Except I have nuzlocked the originals you stupid unova loving child.
X&Y are factually the hardest games in the main series to nuzlocke. It isn't even close.

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>>27161235
>"I-i-i'm not even a gen 5 autist, p-p-p-please believe me"

>>27161009
Or maybe /vp/ actually, truly cares about pokemon to some degree unlike the tasteless masses.

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>>27161232
>he thinks I've given him more than 2 (You)'s

Jesus, how many of those have you been fishing for?

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>>27161276
And those two yous you have given me have consisted of nothing but ass hurt because I hurt your feelings lmao

>>27161255
You think 5 replies is "anal annihilation. that's adorable.
>>27161256
No, that's opinion, not fact, stop trying to make Gen 6 look better than it actually is.
>>27161268
>Le stuttering meme makes the guy I don't agree with look bad XD!
At least try. We're on /vp/, so we're all autists, but at least put some effort into shitposting.

>>27161334
>"W-w-w-w-we're all autists, r-r-right guys xD?"

>>27161334
The only autists on this board are gen 5 loving scum like yourself.
Don't put the rest of us in the same group, autismo.

>>27161305
Not at all. I only tried to make you realize how retarded you sound with your own medicine but it was my mistake, I didn't realize there'd be someone THAT desperate for (You)'s. Now I'm only here to see how long you can keep this up.

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>>27161334
>Damage controlling this hard on an anonymous imageboard

Yeah you are definitely near tears IRL if you're still here trying to save face after getting blown the fuck out.

>>27159704
Well guess what i loved them.

Their main issue was no third version and im serious.

Basically every first Pokemon game felt flawed or incomplete, maybe except gen 1 (because it was the very beggining) and gen 5 (because how heavy story-based BW were). And each game got third version of some sort to fix the issues, add content and improve region, characters and story.

Gen 6 didnt receive that even though it needed it as much as DP needed Platinum for example.

Well it didnt receive it YET. I dont think its likely that Kalos will be in Sun and Moon post game (allthough Zygarde is an obvious link) but its not impossible. Also doing for example X2Y2 after Sun and Moon, focusing on new formes for Xerneas and Yveltal would be both unexpected and shocking, just like GF likes it recently. We'll see

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>>27161054
>The entirety of the gen 5 dex is pure dog shit besides Crustle, Volcorona, Haxorus and Reuniclus.

2/10. Apply yourself.

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>>27161390
>I only tried to make you realize how retarded you sound with your own medicine
Aka
>Waaaah your post fucking ruined my anus because it was completely right, I'm going to make a mockery of myself and post a list that is hilariously wrong to try play it off like I'm not flustered

>>27161395
Yes. The more you assert someone is assblasted, the more factual it is. That's how discussions work.

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>>27161439
>Post some dumb shit because you're not thinking and instead are just desperately trying to defend gen 5
>6 people immediately laugh at said dumb shit you posted
>"I-I'm not assblasted, stop it, this isn't supposed to be happening"

Loving every laugh.

>>27161439
As stupid as it sounds, that is in fact how the internet works. Moot himself carved it into the stone tablets he used to record his innermost thoughts.

>>27161431
Ah, the classic "take anons post and make him sound dumb" reply. Come on anon, you can do better.

>>27161457
You keep using those words, "defend gen 5". Literally nowhere have I done so. Do you know what the word mean? If anything I should be asking you why are you defending gen 6 this hard.

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>>27161470
>Ah, the classic "take anons post and make him sound dumb" reply.
>The entirety of Gen 5's dex besides garbador and vanilluxe lines is amazing.

You did such a fine job of it yourself that I don't even need to put any effort in at this point.

>>27159704
Because theyre first versions. it's always the 3rd game that gets the least hate per gen.

too bad because they finally got it right when they did BW2 buy making a brand new game instead of an improved remake

>>27161346
Why the fuck are you using quotation marks when you are already greentexting you fucking newfag?

If every retard misusing the quoting function was permabanned this whole website would be like 100 times better.

>>27161485
Anon 1 had a factual statement, you were wrong and you got ass blasted by 5~6 anons. Leave while you can save yourself some dignity or pretends you're our side since its anonymous

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>>27161489
So anon, how many times do you fap to this thing on a daily basis?

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>Walk into thread
>Bitter Unova faggots shitting the bed AGAIN

Are they the muslims of our fanbase?

>>27161537
Less than you and zoroark

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>>27161537
>>27161546
Holy shit, blown the fuck out.

>>27161545
The gen 5 autists have quite literally only recently turned 18. They're the plebs of /vp/.

>>27161510
>The easiest game to date is the hardest to nuzlocke
>Fact
Maybe for you, but for someone who doesn't suck it's still piss easy. Try again.

>>27161597
everything you post is cringe worthy. feel free to stop anytime, thanks.

>>27161597
Everyone else agrees with that fact, might want to clean your sheets after shitting the bed so much

>>27161489
>he still thinks I've put any kind of effort into the (You)'s I've given him

I'm starting to think you're not just baiting and that you're actually brain damaged.

>>27161612
>Everyone else agrees
Literally no proof has been given whatsoever.

>>27161597
It is a fact.
Tell me, faggot, what encounters in whatever game you're going to defend (since we know you're too scared to admit you're a unova autist) have more threatening encounters than X&Y?

>Machoke and Mr Mime
>Double Furfrou
>Sawk Trainers
>Hawlucha Trainers
>Lysandra
>Doublade
>Random Kadabra that is multiple levels higher than you early on
>Double Lucario
>Every arena trap style pokemon in the series
>DD Gyarados
>Wobbuffet cave

>>27161621
Anyway, I'm heading to bed. 3/10 baiting anon. I'm sure you can do better next time. Good luck with your future baitings, have fun, try not to kill yourself. Bye.

>>27161643
Nobody is defending you.
Everybody is against you.

There's your proof.
I don't even agree with most of what the anon that made that initial post said since it's obviously a bait post, but X&Y are factually the hardest games to nuzlocke. It is something most people agree on.

>>27161521
If you go back to plebbit I will cry for you as much as you want me to.

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>>27161621
>>27161661
>Now I'm only here to see how long you can keep this up.
>Tucks tail and runs away

gg easy

>>27161676
>nobody is defending you
On an anonymous image board. Yes. that's just the epitome of proof, isn't it. Grow up.

>>27161708
Literally, figuratively no one is defending you or claiming to defend or doubled up replies on counter arguments.
>Holy shit clinging this hard to being wrong

>>27161708
You're pitiful. Take your own advice and grow up.

People need to stop pretending XY has flaws.
It's embarrassing seeing you try so hard.

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>>27161738

>>27161708
List of youtubers who have nuzlocked basically every gen that failed their X&Y Nuzlocke
>Shady Penguin
>Adrive
>Projarad
>MunchingOrange
>Adrive AND Shadypenguin in their cagelocke (Both wiped to Lysandra)

>the tears ITT
6 confirmed for best with 5 as worst?

>>27161769
Nah, 6 is still shit

>>27161773
Nope, /vp/ came to a consensus that gen 6 is factually the best.

>>27161769
I've been defending the 6 nuzlocke thing but I don't think gen 6 is the best.

5 is admittedly quite bad though.

>>27161769
5 is worst yes.

>>27161787
>>27161797
At least you admit this. Well enough.

>>27161784
>one thread
>the entierty of /vp/
nice one. also, factually is not a word I'd use there, but I'm not a liar.

>>27161787
Well at least we can agree on that.

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Purely in terms of Pokemon designs this is how I'd rate the gens.

Gen 1 > Gen 6 > Gen 3 > Gen 2 > Gen 4 > Gen 5

Gen 5 is truly nothing short of abomination tier.

>>27161784
No it didn't. Assblasting one retard doesn't move a board. You need a Strawpoll for that.

>>27161809
Fuck off and die Unovabortion. You have literally been nothing but a cancer on this board.

>>27161840
This.
Seriously, these kids have single handedly dropped the quality of this board immensely with their dog shit taste that they feel the need to parrot every single day.

I would hate to be a part of such a pathetic fanbase.

>>27161784
Gen 5 always wins favorite gen polls here.

>>27159970
Like actually having a proper scale for the overworld, not having it boxy and conformed to the grid despite being in 3D. Or bringing back exo scaling, havng the trainer show up in the battles, which now have the Pokemon fight really close to each other, feeling like an actual fight between animals. The game feels and sounds out fucking standing so far, I really can't see GF actually nailing the presentation for once and completely botching the gameplay at the same time, that would require unparalleled levels of fucking incompetence.

>>27161840
>Unovabortion
Anon, I'll have you know I'm a Johtoddler.

>>27161852
You're right, it does, but this is the only place on the entire internet that likes gen 5 because 4chan is always filled with loud, obnoxious contrarians.

If we were to have another poll here, gen 5 would win again.

>>27161881
So the consensus only matters when you like the outcome.

>>27161892
he's right though.

>MM is the favorite Zelda game on here despite it being shit
>FFX is the favorite FF
>Mario World is the favorite Mario
>BW are the favorite pokemon

this site is filled with people who like things because everybody else finds them shit.

>>27161769
6 is shit whether it's better than 5 or not.

>>27161829
In terms of overall enjoyment. I rate them like this: Gen 2=4>5=3>1>6
Of course this just bast on my personal enjoyment. Don't get your vaginas knot kalosperms. I just did not enjoy gen 6 as much as the rest. Here's to Gen 7 being the best of them.

>>27161892
I never said that though.
Gen 5 was ridiculed for it's piss poor dex for quite a while. It was only after that, that people started to spam their hot opinions on how everybody is wrong and how the games are the greatest things ever.
Then everybody jumped on the bandwagon, as per usual.

>>27161911
I'm glad that shit doesn't happen with the Ys series. Everybody agrees that OiF is the best even now.

>>27161911
It sounds like you just can't handle other people forming their own opinions without following the masses.

>>27161961
How do you know they are the same people? Even if they were are they not allowed to change their minds?
>Gen 5 was ridiculed for it's piss poor dex for quite a while.
So was gen 4 and gen 6 but I don't see them winning any polls.

>>27161911
>Majora's Mask
Lot's of people loved that game. They only look contrarian because of the Ocarina nostalgia fags who won't stop sucking the game off.
>FFX
I cannot comprehend how people can enjoy that game
>Mario World
It's not people are saying Mario is missing is their favorite.
>BW
I think what turned people around is B2W2. the PWT was loads of fun and it was the first time they EVER introduced a difficulty mode, even if you had to unlock it via a retarded and convoluted process.

>>27161961
>actually has refined enough taste to like/even bother looking into Ys
>spouts all of this nonsense about gen 5
What a disappointment of a person you are.

>>27162018
>Gen 6
>Ridiculed for its dex
Stop talking out of your ass.

>>27162034
Gen 5 is god awful. I'm sorry that you're an underage bandwagon faggot.

>>27162045
When isn't gen 6 ridiculed for having the smallest dex? That's point number fucking 2, right after being the easiest game in the series.

>>27159704

It introduced megas, the worst idea ever devised for Pokemon.

>>27162065
Small dex with an extremely good ratio of good to bad designs.

>>27162045
>>Gen 6
>>Ridiculed for its dex
Literally the main complaint. It was fucking tiny.

>>27162045
>Stop talking out of your ass.
>only 70 new pokemon
>all those horrible megas
>lmao keychain
>lmao a sword

Go fuck yourself. I personally don't have a problem with gen 6's designs, but you can't argue that it gets shitposted to death.

>>27162045

If defending gen 5 makes someone underage, you must be extra underage for defending gen 6.

>>27162085
>extremely good ratio
Epic meme, friend.
Fuck off.

>>27162111
/thread

>>27162111
Gen 6 has excellent designed pokemon.

Gen 5 has god awful deviant art tier dog shit.

There's a big difference.

>>27162114
Every single design besides Aromatise is at least an 8/10.
Every single Gen 5 design is horrendously bad besides 4 pokemon, despite having a dex double the size.

>>27162148
(You)

>>27162085
We got Tyrantrum, Hawlucha, Aegislash, Zygarde, Trevenant, Gourgeist, aaaaand...? Unless you are going to add in Baconburd and Memefrog, in which case we know you're full of shit.

>>27162176
Dragalge, Clawitzer, Heliolisk, Malamar, Noivern, Meowstic, Barbaracle, Avalugg.

Combined with the ones you mentioned, that's almost the entire dex.

>>27162227
>Avalugg
also, the fact that it almost the entire dex is fucking sad.

>>27162252
At least he wasn't lying about the ratio. Maybe.

>>27162252
True, it is sad that the dex is that small, but we are specifically talking about the ratio of good to bad, which X&Y has one of the best ratios of all of the games. If not the best.

>>27162264
>>27162268
While I agree that a lot of them are good, that isn't a fact, it's an opinion. So the ratio is meaningless.

>>27162148

Explain how things like Serperior, Archen, Carracosta Braviary, Krookodile, Minccino, Swanna, Zebstrika, Liepard, Sawsbuck, Emolga, Leavanny, Scolipede, Galvatula or Volcarona are "deviant art tier" when they're basically stylized elemental animals like lots of older gens and most of Gen 6 which you seem to love so much?

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>>27159965
>And instead you get a really fast way to get BP which is actually useful but people still complain.

This is false...somewhat aside from crazy long streaks. Kalos doubled the BP item prices after bw2 cut them in half

>bw1
>BP items are expensive like usual but somewhat cheaper than Platinum/HGSS(2/48 min max)
>BW2
>Some sane person at gf slash BP item prices in half making getting them much faster(1/24 min max)
>Introduces PWT with makes it even easier to get BP goods
>XY is out
>BP items are doubled again for some asinine reason.

I mean what the hell man? How do you go from full price to half price and then back to full price BP items the very next gen???

>>27162365
No, over half of those you mentioned are overly cartoony shit.
Compare them to the likes of Dragalge and Clawitzer and they look like shit.
Volcarona is good, it's very moth-like.

Shit like Krookadile and Scolipede are just straight up garbage.

What a shame. Centipedes and Millipedes are some of my favorite insects too.

>>27162417

>overly cartoony shit

Oh, you mean like most fucking Pokemon since Gen 1?

>Krookadile and Scolipede
>garbage

That's some bad taste if I ever saw it

>>27162417
Krookodile's body shape is literally charizard without wings.

>>27162648
I don't like Charizard though.

>>27159704
Newest + used as scapegoat by unovabortions to try and make people forget how shitty gen 5 was

>>27160252
>I didn't know whether the game was balanced around EXP share or not so I let the game decide for me and left it as I got it and realized too late that my pokemon were overleveled

Lmao, should have guessed
Why is it always retards on that side of the debate?

>>27162417
>overly cartoony shit
Welcome to the world of pokemon newfriend. Enjoy your stay. Careful though. If you get caught up in those pesky gen wars you'll just embarrass yourself.

Because it's still the current generation and these are the most hated one because the fans of the previous generation got pissed by the hate of their generation and now piss on the next one for that matter. Gen V also got hated a long time, especially the new pokemon.

Gen VI is longer as a region, but both are equal long in terms of game time because Gen 5 was story heavy. While BW had more post game, the main game was only 11 towns and 10 routes long while XY was 22 routes and 16 towns long.

>>27162724
It's still the worst thing to happen to the games. Had they given it to you as a reward for doing, something, anything, not just being there, maybe it would get less hate. Especially if it was only available for the postgame. That would make sense. You get rewarded for accomplishing something. Not just the "here take this" attitude that the entirety of gen 6.

>>27162111
Trips of truth

I love them, personally. My only problems with it are the roster, the fact that the elite 4 doesn't grow in levels, and the rivals/friends.

>>27159911
S/M is EXACTLY like X/Y.
Hence the gen 6.5 meme.