Smogon frog is broken?

>>26996042
It has checks and counters. Smogon just wasnt ready for more than one moveset on a pokemon.

>>26996042
Smogon wanks it's stall. Anything that interferes with that is removed.
Greninja can check alot of Pokemon and is difficult to predict the moveset it's running.

>>26996170
Greninja was banned because it destroys balanced and offense you faggot. Stall had the least problems with it.

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>>26996042
>float stone empoleon

>listening to memegon

>>26996042
The problem is that you posted only two mins people would actually use in OU, and the rest would probably die in a few turns to other threats.

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Oh, look, it's the daily smogon hate thread!

>Float Stone Empoleon

Tentacruel beats Greninja without Extrasensory, but Greninja would probably use Ice Beam or Gunk Shot against some of the mons in your calcs.

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>>26996042
>Assault Vest Skuntank
well memed good sir

>>26996252
Is this the pinnacle of fainting animations?

>>26996199
That implies Smogon runs Offense and Balanced Teams.
Which, we all know they don't. Because they only run Stall.

The idea is that Greninja could counter most Pokemon in the game with SOME combination of Hydro Pump/Ice Beam/Low Kick/Gunk Shot/Dark Pulse/U-Turn.

But it's not like people really ran more than 1 set on it anyway. I think they should test it again in OU now that the meta's had time to adjust to all of the newness.

>>26996353
And therefore Greninja wouldn't get banned, since they wouldn't even blink an eye at it.

Stupid shit.

Porygon2 has little use outside of countering frog, Chansey is only viable on fat stall, defensive Gyarados is okay, Umbreon is shit, Float Stone Empoleon is ayy lmao, so is Skuntank
Greninja couldn't do very much to fatter teams, sure, but offense had a lot more trouble switching into it, and it could pressure your team throughout the whole match with just a little prediction. Sure, its power was underwhelming against fat balance and stall, but offense struggled a lot more with it, and there was little reason not to run it. It was just centralizing and unhealthy for the meta. Being forced to run niche shit or one-dimensional niche counters is not a good thing.

>>26996375
But it is banned. Since it is banned and Smogon only runs stall then it had to have been banned because it interferes with Smogon's precious stall.

>>26996372
It will get unbanned with SM anyways, which will be in a scant few months, so I don't get all the hate. Yes, smogon has been banhappy this Gen, but that's because of the huge general power creep.

>Skuntank
>Float Stone Emploeon
eric, simply eric
Also love these threads
>Hah! Look at this handful of Pokemon sets with EVs made specifically to deal one Pokemon! Therefore, X Pokemon is easily countered! Chew on THAT, Smogoons!

>>26996042
>228 HP / 136 SpD Assault Vest Skuntank

what the fuck

OP doesn't understand the difference between a check and a counter

>>26996252
honchkrow and fucking toxicroak had the best single animations in any 3d pokemon game

>>26996042
>float stone empoleon
>av skuntank
do these even exist in ou after greninja left

>>26996839
A counter can switch in to any move the pokemon can throw and proceed to wall it or threaten it out.

What pokemon is 2hko'd there? I think its you that needs to look up the definitions.

>>26996422
all it really needs is max hp but i guess since it runs 136 speed in w/e yier it sits at it was just thrown into sp. def.

>>26996199
>offensive frail mons trying to switch into anything
>offensive teams not having a scarfer
>offensive teams not having priority
if you didnt get the hint offensive teams dont really try to counter threats, just pack a ton of checks which greninja has

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>>26996280
Gunk shot actually does a bit less to the theings being hit by Low kick and

>216 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 156+ SpD Gyarados: 125-148 (31.8 - 37.6%) -- 0.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

>>26996353
>>26996403
>Smogon is a person

Also,
>Gothitelle is banned because it makes stall overpowered
>"S-smogon only bans things that t-threaten stall!!!!1"

Fucking kill yourselves newfags

>>26997133
Gothitelle was also used to beat stall or force it to run a shit ton of shed shells.

Things weak to any of the moves it learned were locked in and ko'd, and if goth couldnt find anything to kill then itd just cripple a mon with a choice item.

It goes both ways here.

>>26996042
most of these pokemon are mediocre or garbage outside of the context of countering or checking greninja

>>26997598
This. Anti-Smogonfags don't understand that bans happen because things overcentralize the meta, not because they can't be beaten.

Except for Mega Gengar lol

>>26996335
I always liked Kadabra hitting itself with its spoon.

>>26996042
>Porygon2
Nigger it takes a Close Combat from a Machamp or Conkeldurr to one shot that thing unboosted.

>>26996353
Not even involved in this thread but this logic is so circular you could ride it for a circus act. It'd be about as ridiculous as someone actually believing it

I think the point of this thread was to point out that not having any counters was an argument used by the pro ban people.

Its obviously not true as shown by the OP.

>>26998298
Legitimate question then - is Talonflame overcentralizing?
Heck, is Stealth Rock overcentralizing?

>>26998448
Talonflame has fuckall attack and is demolished by rocks or anything that doesn't die to its narrow coverage, while rocks don't even need you to have a spinner to play around unless you have many rock weaknesses on you.

Both of them are strong, but barely as strong as people who don't play (like you) think.

>>26998523
>rocks
>in rapid spin + defog the meta

people who run that broken piece of shit bird will go to the extreme of scarfing their hazard removal mon

>>26996042
Smogon's reasoning was that with the additions of Gunk Shot and Low Kick, Greninja now had a theoretical answer to everything.

During XY, steel and fairy types were solid answers to greninja every time, now it wasn't the case.

Drawback was that this is bad 4MSS. The unpredictability on whether the Greninja you were facing was Gunk Shot/Ice Beam/Dark Pulse/Grass Knot or Low Kick/Ice Beam/Extrasensory/Hydro Pump.

Smogon users have stated before that they want the metagame to be like chess, with one piece doing the same thing every time. Greninja is a mon that doesn't do one thing perfectly, but it does a lot of things really good. and that diversity was enough for people to rage at it.

that and it's speed tier is fuckin' NOICE. outspeeding Scarf Tyranitar is always an excellent speed tier.

tl;dr: people didn't want to have to think about what SmogFrog could be packing in its arsenal, and gave it the boot.

>>26999573
>tl;dr: people didn't want to have to think about what SmogFrog could be packing in its arsenal, and gave it the boot.
aka lets not adapt and just ban things, yup thats smogon logic

I can't believe that people still think that this frog wasn't cancer.

It shit on most playstyles and even if you were packing a niche counter you had to pray thtat your counter was the CORRECT counter.

I feel like a lot of people misunderstand Smogon's bans. Greninja's not going to sweep teams. It can be revenge killed, like every other Pokemon in the game.

But that's not what Greninja was supposed to do. Greninja's role was to punch holes in your team so that its teammates could wreak havoc.

Then there's the fact that people think that dedicating an entire teamslot for "shaky greninja counter that may or may not be able to take on greninja" is not overcentralizing at all.

>>27000063
I told you yesterday that greninja wont be punching any holes if i carry one of the hard counters (yes it will be correct).
You never responded.

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Smogon chicken is broken?

I was told this thing had no counters.

>252+ Atk Mega Blaziken High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 226-267 (42.3 - 50%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

>252+ Atk Mega Blaziken Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tentacruel: 131-155 (35.9 - 42.5%) -- 95.3% chance to 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery

>252+ Atk Mega Blaziken High Jump Kick vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Chople Berry Solid Rock Rhyperior: 163-192 (37.6 - 44.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

>252+ Atk Mega Blaziken Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Jellicent: 126-149 (31.1 - 36.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

>Mega Blaziken High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gastly Gastly: 0-0 (0 - 0%)

Did smogon lie to us?

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>>27000202
Porygon2 and Chansey are the only two "hard counters" that exist that have recovery and thus can switch in more than one time. Both of those kill momentum and are at best mediocre outside of countering Greninja/Stall, respectively. Do you think that being forced to run a specific Greninja counter is not overcentralizing? Sableye is a hard counter to Mega Kangaskhan, wow I guess Mega Kangaskhan is balanced and should be retested, fuck the Smogon bureaucrat!

>>27000202
The problem is that if you NEED to carry a hard counter to avoid getting rekt, you're fucked. And most hard counters like the ones OP mentioned are niche pieces of fuck.

>>27000400
So Umbreon cant heal and lets be real here gyarados is a counter. If you waste a moveslot on grass knot then more shit walls you.

>>27000493
Well Umbreon is just shit that's way too passive to pressure anything, and its bulk is great but it's not ridiculously high, and dark isn't the best defensive typing even if it's not awful.

>>26999705

oh boy, the most retarded and common argument for antismogon tards

>>27000436
You dont NEED a hard counter, offensive teams checked it left and right with priority and scarf pokemon.

Thats the thing, people think they need a counter for all million pokemon combinations when this just isnt possible.
Accept the fact that some things have few counters and check them, it doesnt deem them broken.

>>27000537
Right, its not like smogons the same community that tried banning mega gengar from ubers multiple times (even rigging votes) just because they didnt like it and couldnt adapt.

>>27000548
The thing is, and I'm an offense player who hated playing against Greninja, it highly restricts teambuilding because obv HO is all about saccing, and Greninja WILL make you sacc, or your potential check risks taking a bunch in its face, and it has very little to no opportunity cost. It's sanic, hits way harder than you expect, and HO was probably one of the least damaged playstyles, balance absolutely loathed Greninja because switch-ins were common but easy to pressure with other teammates. Greninja had absurd synergy with practically anything and was highly splashable, making teambuilding pretty redudant.

>>26999705
You probably thought the mega Lucario ban was a stupid one too

>>27000493
Umbreon, again, kills momentum and is shit outside the context of countering Greninja. It's a sitting duck that can only Wish-Protect and wait for Greninja to off itself with Life Orb recoil, which it isn't going to stay in to do.

>Gyarados is a counter
if it's offensive it gets 2hkod by ice beam after rocks and cannot switch in, meaning it's not a counter
the fact that you advocate running _specially defensive gyarados_ proves that greninja is overcentralizing, dude
what the fuck is specially defensive gyarados going to accomplish in OU other than proving a point
greninja is overcentralizing, get over it

>>26999705
>aka lets not adapt and just ban things, yup thats smogon logic
the meta did adapt while it was there. what ended up happening was that we started seeing pokemon that don't work well when dealing with non-greninja situations

>>27000536
>Well Umbreon is just shit that's way too passive to pressure anything
this also applies to porygon2 in a sense

>>27000548
most of these pokemon didn't punish greninja for switching out. since its at such a high speed tier, its also easier to predict when a check is carrying a choice scarf. when another pokemon on said offensive team couldn't threaten greninja, it arrives in some manner and gets demolished or severely damaged

>>27000721
Eh, Porygon2 has at least a bit of offensive presence outside of Foul Play, but yeah it's kind of a sitting duck brb killing self

>>27000720
Defensive gyarados with rest has been a thing since like gen 4, where have you been?

>>26996042
>cherry picking this hard