How do we fix stall?

>>26824933
>Everyone just leeches off whoever comes up with a new stall team by simply copying it.

This is true of any competitive though

Everyone just copies what the top players are doing, because it works

>>26825165
True, but it's much more annoying with stalling in Pokemon, because even in all the other copied teams you at least need to think a little.

What meta do you run? Plenty of stall breakers if you play pokemon on cart and don't sim.

>>26825204
I mostly sim, when it comes to carts I mostly just play for fun. On the rare chance I decide to battle there I run across some stallfags here and there, but you're right that it's more diverse on carts.

When I play on Showdown I use mostly NU and PU but even there I'm bound to find something annoying.

It seems GameFreak is trying to get rid of stalling with all this crazy shit they've been releasing. Hopefully SM allows for more balanced teams.

>>26825165
All stall temas run Chansey, either Quagsire or Clefable as an unaware wall, Mega Sableye, a trapper and some filler. Balance and Offense have more options when asembling a team.

Just delete Eviolite and Stall will receive a major blow in OU, but It's not going to disappear anytime soon. As long as you can check every threat in the metagame, Stall will be a thing.

Smogon bans thing that centralizes the meta. Hoopa fucked everything that didn't have an offensive response to it, forcing bulkier teams (Balance, bulky offense, Semi-Stall, Stall) to run trappers and depend on 50/50s if they didn't want . Alakazan in UU did pretty much the same thing and now is BL.

So yeah, just run more breakers and outpredict Stall and you should be good to go.

>Stall is useful for the first time since gen 2 after hyper offense has had a strangle hold all that time
>everyone loses their mind

I don't know.

As much as I can appreciate stall teams that are meant to wear down the enemy team with poison or status or weather effects, the ones made just to force people to quit are really gay.


It's not the way the game was meant to be played, it shits all over the spirit of pokemon.

Can you imagine in the anime if he fought a stall team?

>>26825405
Stall is not fun to play against

>>26825417
Anime stall wouldn't really work since switching is handled differently

Stall isn't a problem in Anything Goes, Doubles, VGC or Battle Spot. It's only a problem in Smogon metas because they purposely make it unbeatable and ban anything that compete with it while also never banning a single stall mon. No point in asking "how do we fix it" when they are purposely going out of their way to make sure stall is unbeatable. They don't want it fixed.

File: Majin Buu.jpg (144KB, 700x401px) Image search: [Google]

144KB, 700x401px

>>26824933
High ladder player here,

the solution is banning Chansey and Blissey.

The argument to keep them has been that they're relatively passive and are setup fodder, susceptible to Knock Off and physical moves, and are walled by Ghosts.

The problem with them though is that they wall any mon that targets Special Defense, and Chansey especially takes a good deal of physical hits. Chansey walls half the game, and can't even be broken by Special Fighting moves, whereas Skarm can be broken by Physical Fire moves.

I'd rather stall players substitute them for Audino, which doesn't take like 10% from a Raikou's Thunderbolt like they do. With Special Attackers able to take on stall, the playstyle would be better held in check.

Mega Sableye is far from a problem in comparison.

>>26826924
>but Muh psyshock

I like Smogon, but OU is cancerous

>>26826991
OU is fun when you play with the intention to realistically make underseen mons work. Or when you put together a team meant to handle something and you get the matchup that lets it shine. The triumph is a great feeling.

>>26824933
If you think Mega Fugs and Mega Moms and hazards are strategies then you are the dipshit.

>>26825468
The OP literally pictures a Pokemon that was banned for being overly beneficial to stall.

>>26827221
Well it just broke the game if it switched in on anything that couldn't kill it. It broke everything really

>>26827265
No, it was explicitly banned because of it being too powerful for stall. As you said it's fine in VGC and etc. where stall is not the dominant playstyle.

>>26826991
UU is great though.

>>26827307
Well, it broke singles at least. It just was too good really it broke everything but HO on Smogon singles, but it can be thought of like stall when you can't do anything but wait for it to boost. It's a common misconception that it's stall, but it isn't.

It's not stall but it feels like it

>>26827324
I'm a fan of NU personally

>>26827364
Actually, it broke HO too. Things like Keldeo got trapped and removed with Psychic, Hoopa-U removed with Signal Beam, Manaphy Tricked to cripple its stallbreaking capabilities. It was extremely unhealthy.

>>26827135
Dis

>>26827324
Galvantula, Mamoswine, Crobat, Tentacruel, Florges, and Doublade. Only team I have legitimately built right now, and I have a blast with them, even beating OU and the occasional Uber team.

>>26827059
I do it the first way. It's so much fun watching teams get fucked by Rhyperior or M-Aggron, or just watching Darmanitan fuck shit up.

>>26825386
outdated archetype, anon. modern stall is pretty much: m-sab, skarm, chansey, amoonguss, quagsire, filler (usually pursuit support)

otherwise this guy is right. a decent stallbreaker+1-2 potent wallbreakers are usually enough to break common stallcores. it's usually only lazy teambuilders that slap fat lando or tankchomp on their team with random sweepers and call it a day that complain about stall. there's a reason why high level tournament play only rarely uses stall - a well built usually has enough countermeasures to make such a matchup dependent playstyle too risky to bring.

Stall falls in the face of powerful mixed attackers. Plenty of stuff you could unban that wouldn't really be a problem for stuff other than stall.

In OU you could have Zekrom. Zekrom only has 90 speed (OU is too fast for it), is weak to really common moves like Earthquake, hard countered by Mega Altaria, both its STABs have immunities, it really wouldn't be that much better than Garchomp, but Stall couldn't handle it because it 2HKO's most of the tier. Deoxys-Neutral would be good too, but it shits on HO as well, so I'd say Zekrom.

UU I'm not so sure of. Victini maybe? Not much can switch in on it, but the damn thing has 100speed, so Scarf sets would shit on HO too much. Togekiss destroys stall too, but para-flinching is just as retarded as full stall. Maybe Mega-Pidgeot? It has a nice stallbreaker set, and the main reason it was banned was for people getting butthurt over Hurricane causing confusion.

Unbanning Pangoro, Dragalge, or Mega-Abomasnow (I'd go with Pangoro personally) would end most stall in RU.

>>26827425
Don't know about that, the fact that it checked that gay ass horse and sweepfish doesn't mean it's bad. I mean it's not like scald sacred sword is healthy for the meta. Wanna ban talonflame now too?

>>26828903
Victini was UU once upon a time.

>>26828903
>Zekrom
nigga

please

The objective best unban would be giratina-o, they tested it as a 'joke' for april fools once and you know what? It was fine. It was fucking fine. Just remember it MUST hold a specific item like megas must. It's a pretty shit item to boot. spooky/draco plate combo, wow.
Absolute boon to balance.

The real solution though? When SM rolls in, unban everything rather than starting with box legends out. Then you can just knock out the titans (xern, kyogri, primals, great walls, ho-oh, megamence) and it'll probably be ok from there. About time they gave ubers a chance.

As for UU, it's not really stall central anymore as far as I know. I mean, their most used mon is a fucking dragon dancer, hydreigon is allowed to exist, mamoswine is allowed to exist.

>>26824933
wait what does the koala's ability do?

>>26829661
It fixes the game

>>26829661
Immune to all status but sleep.

Really overhyped considering this is essentially what guts and poison heal do.

>>26824933
>No suicune
>No blissey
As a UU fag this upsets me

>>26824933
>stop being a Smogon sheep

>>26829689
Poison Heal only prevents one status, and Guts just raises your Attack stat, but you still can get all the annoying shit that comes with status effects.

Nekkoala's ability shits all over most stall teams because they run shit like Toxic and Thunder Wave. If that ability also protects Nekkoala from minor statuses like confusion and Leech Seed then it further makes stallfags obsolete.

>>26829916
>Poison Heal only prevents one status
I want you to think long and hard about how wrong you are.

The problem with Smogon is they try to make every playstyle viable. However the metagame is really binary, if something hits hard enough to beat any stall team then it will be considered too much for OU and will be banned while otherwise stall becomes the safest playstyle since it's easy and hard to fuck up with.

>>26828903
>Zekrom
Hell to the no. He's bad enough with a band/scarf, even with ground/fairy cores everywhere. OU would give him leeway to run gimmicky shit like hone claws/roost and he would literally end games.

I fuggen love Zekrom, but he'll never be balanced in OU.

>>26832217
PEople said the same thing about Crawdaunt before it dropped form UU, which, like zekrom, is a slow wallbreaker with very few switch-ins. Turns out the gimmicky sets like Dragon Dance were all shit, and Crawdaunt was outclassed by fucking Hydreigon at the end of the day. I think Zekrom would be like Crawdaunt. Shits on stall but an competently built team could deal with it.

Kyurem-Black is legal, it has better stats than Zekrom with an only slightly worse movepool (no physical Ice STAB really doesn't hurt it as much as people think. Aside from Togekiss, who no one uses anyway, what would you need to hit with Icicle Crash that Ice Beam or Outrage doesn't already kill?)

If Kyurem-Black is fine, Zekrom should at least get a suspect test. I think a lot of people would be surprised at how much of OU can deal with it.