Let's Settle This

This thread is gonna end the same as it always does, a lot of pointless bickering over semantics and the realization that nobody on /vp/ knows what any animals are.

Also it's probably true but Game Freak are really pushing it my making the "Dog" Pokemon a fennec fox.

I find it strange that after 7 pokemon where only two do not properly fit into a max of only 12, someone is definitely certain that there is absolutely nothing in this theory at all
They could've made a fire moose, or a rhino or an elephant or a kangaroo or sloth, nobody would've been able to say they fin in with the zodiac, but they didn't

>>26797667
How is Fennekin a dog when it's literally the Fox pokemon

>>26798012
because they are still in the same family, both canines
in a way they are cousins
this one is not hard to understand, it's cyndaquil you should be questioning

>>26797854
Fire elephant would be sweet.

>>26798027
See, this is the kind of shoehorning bullshit we're talking about. If you have to make up this many "it's sort of the same thing, of you ignore that it isn't" excuses, how is it a pattern? If GF wanted there to be a pattern, there's no reason why they wouldn't have done a dog instead.

>>26798027
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_in_Chinese_mythology
>Other members of the canidae family also figure in Chinese mythology, including wolves and foxes. The portrayal of these is usually quite different than in the case of dogs.
>Tales and literature on foxes is especially extensive, with foxes often having magical qualities, such as being able to shift back and forth to human shape, live for incredible life spans, and to grow supernumerary tails (nine being common).
Fuck off. When talking about mythological representations, "close enough!" is simply not enough.

>>26798044
>this many
>literally just two

>>26798027
Actually, they aren't. Please, go back to biology class, and study more.

>>26798080
This.

>>26798748
>Biology student
>Some kid on vp tells me the world

Kek

>>26798080
>autism

>Literally cat banned from calendar because rat tricked it.
>Cat starter
>I-It's a tiger.

So we should expect litten, according to this theory, to evolve into a Tiger?

>>26797667
cyndaquil is ABSOLUTELY NOT a rat! hello...

>>26798809
If it doesn't then >>26798801 applies, the cat was literally excluded from the Zodiac.

Related, everyone brings up that foxes and dogs are really similar, but they're completely different genus, can't remotely breed (unlike dogs and wolves), and in almost all mythology, foxes and dogs are VERY distinct in their representation. It's silly to say fox=dog

>>26798824
Fire Mouse.

>>26798824
I don't understand what's so hard for zodiac supporters to understand here. Yes, Cyndaquil is the "Fire Mouse" Pokémon, even though it and its evolutionary line are based on an echidna, a stoat, and a badger. Using the Pokedex species logic for Cyndaquil actively excludes Charmander from being the dragon, as he's the "Lizard" Pokémon at all points, even Charizard. If we allow Charizard because it's based on a dragon (which it is) we have to exclude Cyndaquil because it's not based on a rat. You can't use two sets of logic for two different entries, or the pattern breaks.

>>26798861
See >>26798862, fuckwad

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Can't wait to rabbit

>>26798748
Ok, so it's called "canid" but it's the same family
cousins once removed

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>>26797667
>not posting the right one

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>>26797667
I mean, of course it's not 100% accurate with literally the same species, but it's close enough, and that's the whole point. Fennekin isn't a dog, but a dog is definitely "close enough" to a fox, and I'm pretty sure Litten's last evo is going to be very tiger-like since Litten already has the red and black coloring going on with it. The people who dismiss the zodiac theory are basically saying that there just has been seven coincidences in a row, and that seems highly unlikely to me. I'm positive that we're going to get subtle zodiac Fire-starters in the future too, and with "subtle" I mean things like a zebra instead of a horse or maybe a goat instead of a sheep.

>>26799109
/thread
this anon gets it.

>>26798899
There is something truly, heinously wrong with you.

>>26799109
Pretty much. When is OP's image going to be updated with Litten, anyways?

>>26798027
>foxes are dogs
That's as retarded as saying giraffes are whales because they are both mammals.

>>26799153
Foxes are similar to dogs. Giraffes are not similar to whales. You are similar to retards.

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>>26799153

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10 hours in gimp

>>26799153
I didn't say foxes are dogs, i said they are closely related, which they are
It'd be more like saying horses are related to zebras, if you have to have a comparison

>>26797667
>http://www.strawpoll.me/10524740
Fennekin not a dog, end of the theory.
Cyndaquil is also not a rat, but a porcupine

If you didn't chose "No, definitely not true", you are an autistic faggot and you should consider killing yourself.

>>26799640
10/10

I know this board is retarded, but how the FUCK are there so many Zodiacfags?

>>26799725
I think it's just shitposting.

I can't accept there are so many people who actually believe in that.

>>26797667
> patiently waits for fire bunbun

>>26799776
>people don't share my opinion
>they must be trolling hurr durr
This is the most retarded thing I have read today.

>>26799787
Here's your (You).

>>26799795
>implying I'm not right

>>26799777
Thank god Habanero exists; too bad its not real

>>26799815
You're defending the Zodiac nutcases, so you can't be right.

>>26799815
>implying I'm not right

Charmander is not a Chinese dragon.

The zodiac thing was never a thing.

>>26799823
>>26799835
I'm not defending the zodiac. I said that if you think that people with different opinions about something are shitposting, you are retarded.
I personally don't care about the zodiac, if it's true, fine. if it's not, that's fine too.

>>26799871
You are a cool guy then

>Fire snake

>>26799871
That's basically defending the Zodiac. You're legitimising something this fucking ridiculous to make some half-assed point.
It's the same as saying that flat earthers are trolls is a bad thing.
Fuck off retard.

>>26797667
Litten will evolve into le tiger.

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hoping sheep fire starter is a Chimera

>>26799640
The fire version has only two that don't fit completely, this one has none that fit at all
come back when you can come up with a zodiac that have no more than two wrongs
hint: try non-chinese zodiacs

>>26800105
>If you're not with me, then you're against me
fuck off

So what are we going to do when we run out of Zodiac animals?

>>26797667
>Torchic/blaziken
>rooster

>>26797854
This.

>>26797667
Who you betting on next?
>Ox/Cow
>Rabbit
>Snake
>Horse
>Sheep

>>26799109
Why can't anyone on vp be as reasonable as you?

>>26799330
or like saying sheep are close to oxes. Because that's exactly how close foxes are to dogs.
To make it short: I Fennejin is a dog, then sheep/goat will be represented by the same fire starter.

>>26799835
Since when did the Chinese buy into the western vs. eastern dragon dichotomy? The dragons they came up has the same name as what they call western dragons.

>>26800180
goat ≠ sheep

>>26798080
This guy knows.

>>26802620
I want a Rabbit or a Snek, but we might actually see a Sheep or an Ox/Cow if Gen 8 is based on North Eastern Europe/Nordic Countries

Ekans for snake and ponyta for Horse and why is fennekin the FOX-pokemon here as dog? I know foxes are in the same "family" (dont Know the english word for it) as dogs but wouldnt growlithe or lillipup fit better? or the new pokémon iwanko?

Haha oups sorry i didnt saw it big so i dient saw that There where just fire pokemon but ponyta is still the horse one and growlithe would fit better than fennekin as dog in my opinion

>>26797667
>Chimchar is a chimpanzee.
>Monferno is a chimpanzee.
>Infernape is a chimpanzee.
>year of the monkey

Wake up people.

Grass starters are prehistoric megafauna
Water starters are amphibious
Fire starters allude to the Chinese zodiac

It doesn't have to be hard

>>26803163
Patterns are boring. I'd rather let Gamefreak do their own thing than try to stick to an autistic pattern.

Besides, the Megafauna thing is blown out of the water by Rowlet, unless you're implying that giant owls used to rule the skies.

>>26802651
>sheep/goat represented by the same starter
>implying this is bad or breaks the theory

>>26803085
They have tails.

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>>26797667
Look at Fennekin! You call him a dog, but everyone can clearly see that that thing's a Fox!!!

>>26803760
Yes, i agreee, fennekin is obviosuly a fix,
but the poit is that they're clostely related, relativverly from our perspecive, at least
i know it's not perviect but it's nit a very big stretchof what we already understansdd,
if you wrer to be criticaal,m you coulld really be askign about cybndaqul, cince that thing isn't even a mouse, or rat or rodefnt at all,
cyndaqul is the biggest strech in th fiermon zodiactheroy ovbiously, so xtart with that instard of fennerking

>>26797667
until I see a fire snake this is bullshit
I even buy delphox as a bipedal fox/dog because canine but
>rat pokemon without a long ass tail, just a mouse
thats bullshit

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>>26804304
>nezumi pokemon without a long ass tail, just a nezumi

>>26799089

Its kinda funny though, cat is the 13th zodiac

>>26803760
Male Foxs are called dogs occasionally
>>26804304
Pokedex calls it a fire mouse

I can't believe you faggots are still posting in my thread.

>>26804351
>>26804373
not even memeing but mouse aren't rats
at least not without the disgusting long, gross, thick tail, aside of the size difference

>>26797667
>didn't put the 'dog' final evo up

>>26799316
Sorry no one's replied to you. If you actually made this, congrats. This is awesome, and will be the image used until next gen.

>>26797667
1. Neither mice nor badgers/wolverines are rats.

2. Foxes are not dogs.

3. Salamanders, mythical or otherwise, are not dragons.

4. Cats are not tigers.

>>26798801
We have absolutely no idea what species of feline Litten will evolve into but a tiger is the best bet due to its markings. Therefore if it does actually evolve into a tiger it would still fit into the theory.

>>26803648
>breaks the theory
The """theory""" was broken nearly 17 years ago.

>>26799142
As soon as we have Litten's final evolution revealed would be when it would be updated.

>>26799640
but anon, seals are caniform pinnipeds. plus popplio looks like a dog

>>26804466
1. Cyndaquil is the hi nezumi pokemon. Nezumi is the name for the rat zodiac in japanese.
2. And ponies are not musketeers and birds are not mexican wrestlers. Your point?
3. Purposefully ignoring charizard
4. Litten will evolve into a tiger. The circus theme makes it obvious.

>>26804426
>nezumi are not nezumi because I say so

>>26804550
1. I thought it was Hinoarashi
2. >bait
3. Charizard isn't a dragon either
4. I'm willing to concede this point.

Honestly though I'm so fucking pumped for a fire snake, fire ox, and fire sheep (but I hope it's more of a ram).

But of course the next one will be a horse or a rabbit. :|

You know, actually, a rabbit could be really cool too.

>>26804666
1. Hinoarashi is its name, hi nezumi is its species
2. I see you have no argument
3. going full retard here

>>26804674
I'd like a fire rabbit based on the wolpertinger, but if it ever happens it'll probably evolve into some shitty furbait.

>>26798862
You literally can use both sets of logic, because you have to look at it as a whole. Also, look up Hinezumi. That's partially what Cyndaquil's design is based off of.

>>26804550
>>26804666
>>26804703
Greentext you fucking newfags.

>>26804728
They directly contradict each other, you zodiacshitters are fucking delusional.

>>26804762
Where's your argument?

>>26804703
1. Fair enough.
2. You implied that Fennekin was based on a dog in its design/theme. And if Fennekin turned into a big dog thing then it would be okay, but it doesn't; It stays a dog. And since foxes are not dogs, then it doesn't belong representing the dog.
3. Possibly. But convergent evolution is a thing that exists. A dragon is not a dragon just because it flies and has scales.

>>26804782
*stays a fox

fuck me i got dogs on the brain today

CAREFUL! Here comes the fire cow!

>>26804703
Its species name is Hinezumi because the japanese are unimaginative fucks who just add [adjective][animal] to name new things. Do you know what the name for a Hedgehog is in nip? Harinezumi.

I'm pretty sure it's intentional now, but I don't think it was intended at first which is why Typhlosion is hardly a rat.
Gamefreak probably noticed around the fourth or fifth gen and then kept to pattern they unintentionally began.

>>26797667
When it says Canine instead of Dog, then we'll talk.

I think that anyone who sees a pattern related to the zodiac needs to go to the doctor to be checked out for autism. You're seeing patterns that aren't really there guys, and trying too hard to shoehorn pokemon into the categories.

If they wanted a dog starter for the zodiac, there would be a dog starter. If they wanted a rat starter there would be a rat. Why would the Pig, Chicken, Monkey and Dragon "fit" perfectly without some convoluted reason but the Dog and Rat need a full wiki search to try and validate a reason.

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>>26797667
It is called the DOG Talisman! not the FOX or the CANINE Talisman! You are supposed to be looking for a Noble DOG, not a fox!

>>26804837
>rats aren't nezumi

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>>26804903
Fox -
Male - reynard, dog, dog fox, or tod
Female -vixen
Baby - kit, cub, pup
Group - skulk, leash

>>26803188
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ornimegalonyx

>>26799640
>not putting popplio as the dog and samurott as the ox

am i the only one that thinks this shit was never a thing but now gf is pushing it just because you are all crazy?

>>26805048
I'm of the opinion that it was never a thing and still isn't a thing. It just seems like a coincidence.

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>>26799640
>spiteful anti-zodiacfag unwittingly shows how little zodiacfags actually have to stretch to prove their theory right, the picture

>>26797667
But this EXACT thread settled THIS EXACT issue seven times in the past 3 days.

And that's just counting 3 days.

,,,

Faggot,

>>26805080
sauce

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>>26804941
And female cats are called queens but that does not meant hey are Royalty

>>26799640
but squirtle tail its a fluffy blue colored squirrel tail

>>26805249
squirrels kinda look like rats
therefore squirtle counts as a rat

Canidae is the higher classification for both Vulpini (foxes and other canidae with feline qualities) and also Canini (Dogs, literal dogs without the feline qualities)

So no, Foxes =/= Dogs, and they're separated by millions of years of evolution. Don't give me this nonsense about them being "close enough" because they are not. Maybe at some point they were classified as dogs, until people realized there were distinct differences. Maybe people still confuse them, maybe some people aren't educated on this, maybe there are cultural differences due to language.

Yes, they come from the same line, but they most definitely are not close enough or the same thing. To say they are is like saying all fingers are thumbs.

>>26805230
I also wanna say what really matters is the Genus and Species not the family.
Dogs and Foxes are in the same family because of some similarities in their biology, but Dogs are classified as Canids in Genus, while the majority of foxes are in the Vulpes Genus.
We gave animals different Genus to further separate them to know the difference. Same goes for Species.
I mean, Humans are in the same Family as Monkeys, Chimps and such ,but we don't go around call ourselves monkey's do we?

>>26805390
This guy gets it.

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>>26799089
>ponyta
>growlithe
>victini
>fake starter

m8

>>26805408
>I mean, Humans are in the same Family as Monkeys, Chimps and such ,but we don't go around call ourselves monkey's do we?
Just because we don't commonly call ourselves monkeys doesn't mean we aren't.

>>26805086
Fuck you get the fuck out of my thread you piece of shit if you don't like it.

We're getting some good ass discussion here, fuck off with your shitty attitude.

>>26798027
This is like saying giraffes are like zebras or elephants are like rhinos

>>26804817
Only smart anon in the whole thread. Take note everybody, this is probably it

>>26806580
For your sake I hope you're joking.

That wouldn't make any sense due to Fennekin being recent and Cyndaquil being very, very old. If they were going to "force" it they would have clearly made Fennekin an obvious dog, their logic is very flawed and you agreeing with them makes you look mentally challenged.

>delphOX

>>26805598
>>26805408
Humans are neither monkeys nor in the same family as monkeys.

All of this is really easy to find on the web; I don't understand why there are so many ignorant statements about taxonomy in this thread.

Feel bad for the kids who will get a Fire sheep.

>>26805598
Humans are Great Apes, not monkeys.

>tfw the majority of /vp/ has answered wrong
The correct answer is "I have no idea" if you would have signed any "yes" or absolute answer and "probably not" if you are skeptic about gf following patterns.

>>26806767
Okay, you got me.

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>>26808734
You got something against sheep m8?

>>26808875
I would've prefered if OP had made the option "I think so" and "i don't think so" rather than "Probably" and "probably not"
But since he didn't, i voted for what was closest to my opinion

But yes, i agree that anyone voting "Definitely" or "definitely not" are taking it a little too far

>>26797667
>"once and for all"
>strawpoll
No, you will continue to post this thread every goddamn day for the rest of your life.

> Cyndaquil
> Has no tail
> is definantly a rat.

Also
> fox = dog uknow
> cat = tiger uknow
> lizard = dragon uknow

So, 7 starters, 4 flaws in theory.
Gg patternfags.

> but you can't tell anything before we saw the 12 starters
Neither you can, actually. But you need it, to prove ur theory.
As we already have four out of seven (i.e. majority) counter examples, your pattern theory is disproven.
Actually, it was since gen 2, if you loosely consider the charmander line as dragon.

> Pollipo is a weapon
> Rowlett is dinausor

>>26797667
>Implying a poll will change theories into facts
The Earth doesn't suddenly becomes flat when the majority believes in it you know.

Anyhow, I'm surprised that no one brought up the fact that both porcupines and rats are rodents, when they already did the "foxes are related to dogs" thing.

Of course, when you need to stretch it that far, the theory pretty much falls apart.

>>26809627
>falling for the nezumi translates to rat meme
>implying the genus draco, consisting of winged lizards, represents all lizards
>you can't make the presumption if either side is right if there were more examples
>yet, I can make the presumption that the theory is wrong in Litten's case when the only example of the line is Litten itself

>>26810374
> calling every translation ever of the rice zodiac thing a meme
> implying a genus draco
> makes sentences with word but no sense
> assuming litten is not a cat bc i don't want it to be cuz mah pattern

>>26810015
> implying that's not exactly how meme magic works

>>26808875
>>26809348
No, stop giving these fucking autists the time of day.

>>26810723
The time of day? What the hell do you mean?
Also, are you actually this mad because some people disagree with you?
I don't give a fuck if you support or oppose the zodiac theory, but you should at least accept that people don't share your views

>>26807651
>>26808844
Apes are monkeys. While we classify them differently, the differences are arbitrary. In evolution nothing really becomes something else, when it comes down to it we are not own monkeys, but highly specialized fish.

>>26804728
If you can't apply the same standard of logic to all entries, it's not a pattern, it's coincidence. This is basic stuff, man

>>26810948
>The time of day? What the hell do you mean?
It's an idiom, underage.
>Also, are you actually this mad because some people disagree with you?
Yes, because they shit up as many threads as they can with it.
Fuck off.

>>26811604
Well right now, you're shitting up this thread, and i've only seen zodiac discussion in zodiac threads

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I'll leave this here

>>26812323
>flower
>flower
>branch
>whole tree
>ivy
>fruit
Nice pattern fags. Can't wait to see you guys force fibonacci or something in there. Also every single animal would fit the prehistoric part.

>>26812558
Those are clearly specific types of plants and flowers. They're grass type so they have to have some kind of random plant that each starter is based on.

>>26811105
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monkey
> Hominoid apes (gibbons, orangutans, gorillas, chimpanzees, and humans), which all lack tails, are also catarrhines but are not considered monkeys.[3]

>>26797667
i like to believe its just loosely based on it

>Cyndaquil
>no tail
>no ears
>no teeth
>narrow snout
>spikes
>looks like a fucking echidna
>TOTALLY A RAT GUYS!!!

>>26815818
>Cyndaquil, the Fire Mouse Pokémon
;^)

>>26815853
Biologically it's not a mouse, and mouses are not rats.
Also
>Charmander, the Lizard Pokemon
>Fennekin, the Fox Pokemon

Congratulations, now two other starters don't fit!

;^) ;^) ;^)

>>26800486
Totodile fits prefectly, honestly.

And Oshawott technically fits Rat just as well as Cyndaquil does.

Everything else is just stupid though.

>>26797667
until I see fire jafar its bullshit

>>26797667
>most people voted variations of yes
It's all settled then. Thread is over.

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Sorry for the unneeded bump, but here is the current poll standings for anyone who wants it saved

>Wolverines/Badgers are rats
>Foxes are dogs
>Salamanders are dragons
>Cats are Tigers

Haha! No.

>>26817030
Still not making this bullshit true.

>>26812323
A cannon would work better for blastoise
How is Feraligatr a brassknuckle?
how is Swampert a warfan?

>>26797667
Fennekin is a dog and Cyndaquil is a mouse there is no argument unless you want to buy game freak and rewritte history

>>26798829
A cheetah cant breed with a lion. So who isn't the cat?

>>26820396
>being this much in denial

>>26812323
All fire types have visable flame

>>26799640
What a completely pathetic strawman. Yet another reason why anti-zodiacfags don't know shit about anything.

>>26806743
>what is artistic liberty

Remember, GF don't have to follow the pattern 100%. They just have to be inspired by the zodiac. Fennekin is directly inspired by the zodiac.

Foxes aren't dogs you morons

>>26821185
Foxes and dogs are both in canidae. It's good enough, and shows that Gamefreak definitely had dogs in mind when they designed the Fennekin family.

>>26805390
>Maybe at some point they were classified as dogs
Good job, you just unwittingly proved that it is entirely possible for a fox to fit into the dog piece of the zodiac. Great job. You're truly a cunning mastermind. A man of intelligence. Exceptional job.

>>26804903
Because as we all know, Gamefreak obeys the laws and rules of an irrelevant western cartoon show. No way that Gamefreak is allowed to put their own spins on the zodiac.

>>26820962
the cheetah, this fucker can't even retract its claws

>>26797667
If we'd had a humanoid fire-starter instead of Infernape, Zodiac-fags would tried so hard to fit it into the Monkey column

Anti-zodiacfags are just in denial, and will be BTFO in gen 8.

>>26822269
Again. They will be BTFO again.

>>26822265
No we wouldn't.

>>26822315
Then why do you try hard to make a rat from something with no tail ? A dog from a fox ? A dragon from a lizard ?

>>26822360
this is bait

>>26821190
>definitely has dogs in ming
Nope. It was fox.

> oh mah they made a thing but they absolutely must have had something vaguely loosely related in mind.

>>26820947
Except they're not.
Why buy GF when even they don't acknowledge the """pattern""" ?
Maybe u patternfugs should buy gf to twist all the designs ?

>>26821183
> Remember, we just have to found an ultra farfetched link bc otherwise our pattern is broken since beggining so let's say it's not a pattern but more some kind of guide but still a pattern

>>26822269
Actually whatever is the inspiration for gen 8, as soon as it is new (and it will be ; cause here's the pattern : no doubles, starters must be unique), zodiactist will find a way to make it fit.

>>26822368
This is refusing to answer.
Why ? You can't face logic nor reality ?

>>26822467
Not really. Read the fucking thread.

>>26822478
>>26822478
I did. All i found was retards pretending animals were other animals.
> tfw gen VIII fire starter will be a squirell
> Totally a Snake tho
> even identifies as a snake
The autism is strong here. Once again, you can't make animal be other animals just bc you want to.
Foxes are foxes, not dog.
Echnida are as close as hedgehos than rats. Cats are not tigers, or Lizards are not dragons.

Come on we know GF can design fire dogs. If they wanted a dog they would've made a dog. They didn't. They made a fox.

>>26822562
>GF can design fire dogs
This may be true. Just look at Arcanine.
>pup evolves into tiger beast

>>26822647
>tiger

>>26797854

They might've been doing that before, but there's nothing to say they won't simply say "fuck it, I'm bored of this now" next time. The zodiac covers a broad range of animals. You can just easily say they're based of warm-blooded animals, since aside from Dragons all of them are warm blooded.

>>26803085
CHIMchar is a chimp
MONferno is a monkey
and infernAPE is an ape
???

Are people seriously and unironically implying that GF don't base the fire starters on the zodiac? What's wrong with you to make such retarded claims?