Why did smogon ban Shadow Tag? Mega Gengar's already in

It countered stall, and smogon only knows how to stall.

Because Gothitelle Stall was overwhelmingly good, and it was a pain in the ass to deal with.

>>26714784
See >>26714789
Also do us all a favor and go away, >>>/v/erlisify

>>26714784

Shadow Tag was banned BECAUSE of stall.

The typical stall team had Gothitelle on it.

>>26714784
You're a dumbass. Shadow Tag was what made stall so strong too.

>>26714770
Gothitelle on stall was way too over-centralizing. You had to run shit like Shed Shell Manaphy to deal with it. Gothitelle ruins your stallbreaker. Part of the reason Hoopa-U was only recently recognized (and banned) for its exceptional breaking was that when Goth was around, they could trap it and click Signal Beam.

Even HO can use Goth to decimate walls. Specs Gothitelle with Energy Ball murders Mega Slowbro, to let setup sweepers and big offense mons run around freely.

Wob wasn't as big of a problem, but it basically gave the user a free move since you're likely going to use Encore-bait when it traps you. Wob + Goth on the same team was a pain in the ass since after they Encore you into a non-lethal move, they could switch in Goth, Trick lock you into a Choice item to keep using the non-attacking move, Calm Mind to +6, and then if Scarf, Trick it back to go on a Psyshock/Psychic sweep if your Darks were out of the way.

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>>26714770
>Why did smogon ban Shadow Tag?
Showdown will ban anything that requires critical thinking.

>>26714770
>smogon
who cares?

>>26714880

You, since you bothered to reply to the thread.

>>26714770
It prevents switch spam which kills most strategy in singles, its basically useless in doubles and triples.

>>26714869

Shadow Tag doesn't require critical thinking, though.

>This Pokemon threatens my team, let me trap it and kill it

>>26714889
Its not official so fuck em

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>>26714905
>Shadow Tag doesn't require critical thinking, though.
Countering it does, hence why smogon bans it.

>gee the same 12 OU pokemon and only a small handful have roar or whirlwind.
>lets ban mega gengar

>>26714952
Phazing moves are shit because for some reason GF gave them negative priorities if they had higher or even regular priority they would be spammed more and prevent shadow tag in the first place.

>>26714952

By the very definition of counter, you have to be able to switch out into something that can deal with the threat.

Since Shadow Tag prevents switching, countering it is impossible.

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>>26714973
>Since Shadow Tag prevents switching, countering it is impossible.
>he doesnt have any pokemon with dark moves

>>26714984
Dark only hits Psychic and Ghost which is horrendous coverage done by the Ghost type itself.

>>26714973
Ghost type and switching moves can switch out.

>>26715014
>Dark only hits Psychic and Ghost
Dark type is versatile and gengar is weak to dark.

>>26714984
>implying someone would switch in on that

I think Smogon can be full of shit sometimes but this you cannot play around on every Pokemon

>>26714971
>for some reason
Picture a VERY fast pokemon spamming dragon tail at incredible hihg speed. Your one and only hope is a fairy type. Ghost type if circle throw.

>>26715032
>implying someone would switch in on that
If its shadow tag you might be stuck. Thats why youre supposed to have a good team.

Not ban things.

>>26715022

No one is going to send their Shadow Tag user in against a Ghost type or U-turn/Volt Switch user

>>26715034
Well at least it would ruin set up sweepers.

>>26715048
>i come up with excuses for every point you have therefore the ban is correct

>>26715040

Yeah, people should totally run moves that are otherwise a waste of a slot just to counter one thing

>>26715048
>No one is going to send their Shadow Tag user in against a Ghost type or U-turn/Volt Switch user
Problem solved.

But then Showdown would have to use something other than the same 12 OU pokemon.

So ban shadowtag instead. Why not!?

>>26715040
>having a dark/ghost/bug type move on every goddam Pokemon on your team for one ability as type coverage

>>26715061
>same 12 OU pokemon.

Nice meme.

OU has over 50 Pokemon.

>>26715053
Shadowtag prevents swtiching and it cant be magic bounce so its broken.

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>>26715060
>people should totally run moves that are otherwise a waste of a slot just to counter one thing
>People should ban pokemon because they cant play with Gamefreak rules.

>>26715066
>choosing a team that doesnt include a ghost/dark or bug

>>26715070
Not all mons are equal. I like showdown but OU uses Lando 33% at all rankings on OU

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>>26715070
>OU has over 50 Pokemon.
I never said it didnt, you smogon fags are really desperate now huh?

>>26714971
Yeah, about that, remember copycat/roar riolu?

>>26715075
>having a dark/ghost/bug type move on every goddam Pokemon on your team for one ability as type coverage

To

>choosing a team that doesnt include a ghost/dark or bug

What don't you fucking understand that shadow tag can be used at any time and you can't fucking switch out.

>>26715131
>Extreme speed Dragonite

Feels good

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>>26715133
>What don't you fucking understand that shadow tag can be used at any time and you can't fucking switch out.
You should have a better team, then you wouldnt need to switch. Im sorry Gamefreak wont cater to your inability at the game.

>>26715145
Alright now I know you're baiting

>>26715157
>wont use whirlwind
>or roar
>or u turn
>or dragon tail
>wont give shed shell
>wont use bug type
>or ghost type
>or dark type
Alright, now I know you're baiting.

>>26715167
>Having a counter for one ability on every single Pokemon on your team

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>>26715195
>not giving your pokemon type coverage

>>26715167

>Roar/Whirlwind/Dragon Tail

Negative priority, offensive Pokemon have no room for thes moves

>U-turn

Not every Pokemon gets it

>Shed Shell

Waste of an item slot, you're gimping yourself against anything that doesn't have a trapping ability

>Bug/Dark

Get trapped.

>Ghost type

Only thing that's immune to Shadow Tag

>>26714770
Wobbuffet is a gimmick Pokémon. Using it in a serious battle is shitposting. Same thing with Gothiloli apparently >>26714852

>>26715226
>I don't want to use all these options that remove the threat because I don't like anything but hyper offensive turbo crying

>>26715226
Being trapped doesn't mean you can't make hits. Stop making excuses for the ban and learn how to play.

>>26715209
>>26715209
>Using "type coverage" on every Pokemon of your team for one type.

I think you're used too having only HO, whereas I'm a fan of balanced team with hazards and sweepers and defogers def tank and special def. Should all of the people be prepared for one ability

>>26715249
>Should all of the people be prepared for one ability
If you're so afraid of 1 ability that you must resort to banning it; you need to reevaluate how you play.

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>>26715243

Anti smogonfags are literally retarded.

They don't understand that having just one counter doesn't mean something isn't overpowered or over centralizing.

>>26715243
Odds are they'll trap in a special attacker and start boosting their special defense

>>26715239
You are actively saying every single Pokemon should be prepared for a direct counter to a single ability and psychic type. It breaks the follow of the game, same with sleep clause

>>26715239

In Pokemon, your team is either offensive, balanced, or defensive. Having both offensive and defensive Pokemon on the same team is bad teambuilding.

Shadow Tag shits on all three of these playstyles, therefore it was banned. Not hard to understand.

>>26715285
How the fuck is that bait?

Dumb shitposter.

>>26715289
>They don't understand that having just one counter doesn't mean something isn't overpowered or over centralizing.
GET MORE THAN 1 COUNTER YOU FUCKING IDIOT.

Honestly learn how to pick a team.

>>26715309
YOU ARE YELLING AT US TO GET 6 COUNTERS FOR ONE POKEMON YOU FUCKING RETARD

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>>26714770
hi Gothorita

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>>26715314
You're the newb complaining about shadow tag.

You want to know how to take it out, but you wont use any of the options. You could use 1 or 2 or 4 of the options.

Instead you want to ban shadow tag.

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>>26715325
NOPE.

CANT HAVE A BUG ON MY TEAM.

>Smogon are shit, they just can't play the way it is intended.
>Smogon only allows Pokémon that are part of the OU clique! Everything that stops them gets banned!
>Official Pokémon ruleset tournament
>Literally only 6 Pokémon are used on over half the teams, depending on legendaries yes/no for the past 3 years

EVERY TIME

>>26715309
>GET MORE THAN 1 COUNTER YOU FUCKING IDIOT.

That's the problem.

If something requires you to have more than one counter for it, then it's broken.

It's overcentralizing and restricts teambuilding.

>>26715327
But the 5th or 6th Pokemon are all they need to switch in and trap you and proceed to boost then sweep you fucking retard

>>26715327
Too overcentralizing not worth it anon, why do you think evasion spam is banned as well?

>>26715327
Because "countering it" would require a dark/ghost/bug move on every single mon on your team, which restricts team building.

Why do anti smogonfags refuse to accept that out of the hundreds of Pokemon, moves,abilities etc SOME of them might be overpowered or unfair?

>>26715327
If it takes more than one counter, than it's busted.

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>>26715338
?

>>26715282
This.

>>26715289
Ban entry hazards then.

>>26715296
>You are actively saying every single Pokemon should be prepared for a direct counter to a single ability and psychic type. It breaks the follow of the game, same with sleep clause
I'm saying that you need to git gud. You know what I do when I lose a battle? I save the recording and go over it and figure out where it went wrong and what I could have done to change the outcome, and then work until I get it to where its not a problem anymore. You, ont eh other hand, run intoa problem and want to ban it because you don't want to change anything about your favored team to get past an obstacle. You're effectively trying to ban drinking fluids because you hate having to find a bathroom when you need to pee.

>>26715306
If you're not using a balanced team then you are part of the problem. When I do wifi battles I have no real problems against anything, and when I inevitably lose (because losing is a good thing and shows theres room for improvment), I save the battle recording and rewatch it and learn how to be better. Wanting to ban things because they make you change things is just being a spoiled brat. Youre literally going "I don't want to change anything about my party to beat this problem so i'm going to cry about it until it gets banned." It's no better than banning scissors because it beats paper and paper is your favorite and you don't want to use rock.

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>>26715352

Because everything that counters evasion spam is either shit, or has bad distribution

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>>26715345
>>26715365
>If something requires you to have more than one counter for it, then it's broken.


>>26715348
>>26715352
>>26715357
>look how triggered they got
>OMG I CANT USE 1 POKEMON TO TAKE IT OUT

>>26715374
Exactly so not worth using.

>>26715377
The problem is that it's so centralizing that you HAVE to run a counter to it. Not because it's a specific threat to the basis of your team, just because fuck you, prepare for it. And it made building stall even more dull than it already was because there was no reason for stall not to run Goth.

>>26715377
Yes you need all 6 to be ready for it.

THATS WHATS BROKEN ABOUT IT

>>26715377
So there isn't a pokemon that's overpowered is what you're saying?

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>>26715397
>>26715402
>>26715405
>the butthurt
>i cant kill it with 1 pokemon
>quick ban it!

>>26715424
Do you really think something that needs every single fucking team to run a counter to it is healthy for a metagame that would appreciate to be as diverse as possible ?

>>26715377
Good luck using that Prankster Volbeat against a Lum Berry Extremespeed DD M-Rayquaza faggot

>only checked by Focus Sash WoW Sableye assuming no chip damage. Will still fail if Ray has Subs or Heal Bell cleric on hand

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>>26715424
>asking if you think there isn't an OP pokemon is butthurt
Shouldn't have bitten the bait

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>>26714869

> Critical thinking

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>>26715444
>>26715448
>>26715454

>>26715480
Smogon tiers are serious cancer.

>OU
>Only 1 baton pass
>No evasion moves
>babiescry.jpeg

>>26715480
Aegislash would've been fantastic for OU if it just needed Protect to swap. King's shield is stupidly punishing and one fail could be too much of a game changer, and it should've been purely physical or special. Then it would've been really interesting to play around without being annoying to build against.

>>26714784
It WAS stall, you idiot.

>>26715506
Yeah I was hoping for that too when it came to the ban. Oh well.

>>26715506

I can't believe GF thought 150 defenses AND offenses with a great typing and signature move that cripples virtually all Physical attackers was a-okay.
Granted, it got fucked hard if you had Taunt.

>>26715506

On the other hand. King Shield doesn't block status. But honestly, wouldn't have mind seeing King Shield ban and see how it'd play w/o it.

>>26715576
Or will o wisp.

>>26714770
Wobbuffet is a gimmick Pokémon. Using it in a serious battle is shitposting. Same thing with Gothiloli apparently >>26714852

>>26715499
Baton Pass is beatable and bullshit

But evasion is just fucking RNG

>>26715576
Masuda literally said in an interview that they never thought about Nidoking or Aegislash using special moves.

>>26715587
>shadow ball + flash cannon

get rekt scrub

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>>26715592
Thats why you use both ;)

>>26715587
>what is special aegislash

>>26715593

Goes to show they really don't understand their own game.
Not that there was any doubt after ORAS and its M-Sala, P-Groudon, P-Kyogre and fucking M-Ray

>>26715592
>Baton Pass is beatable and bullshit

Not consistently. A Baton Pass team will tear through nearly everything like butter, even in the hands of unskilled players.

>>26715614
>>26715605
>using a special att aegislash
>missing out on 100 acc moves and priority

>>26715482
good lord this thing looks even worse from the front

>>26715640
hes cute

>>26715628
>Baton Pass
Just use a phazing move.

Friendly reminder that most of the super-rabid Smogon hate on /vp/ comes from contain underages who think it's part of le ebon board culture.

Secondary friendly reminder that most of /vp/ is terrible at Pokemon and doesn't understand the concept of a metagame

>>26715635
Or you can use special aegislash which has less counters than normal aegislash. Special aegislash being what got the damn thing actually banned

>>26715592

Stored Power/Dazzling Gleam/CM/Sub Magic Bounce Espeon is literally unstoppable if it ever gets a +Spe (& +Def) boost from a Scolipede though.

Can't be phased, can't be Taunted, you can only hope for consecutive priority crits.

>>26714770
Smogon tries to employ blanket-bans whenever possible, in order to avoid slippery slopes and technicality arguments as much as possible.

With the special exceptions of post-Platinum Wobbuffet and Wynaut, Shadow Tag has been a pain in the ass thats hard to prepare for, for all existing playstyles. Gothitelle, Mega Gengar and probably Gothorita have now gained the special ability to specifically check, gimp or counter any one Pokemon.

>>26715635
Special/Mixed Aegislash was the best set iirc. Flash Cannon and Shadow Ball have 100 acc, what are you on about ?

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>>26715661
>the super-rabid Smogon hate on /vp/ comes from contain underages
>people who dont ban pokemon are underage

>>26715653
Nigga, look at the baton pass team that ended up getting baton pass banned.
It had answers for phasing.

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I've been playing smogon OU for well over a year

You all just idiots and need to accept it

the bans are voted for by the community, if a lot of people dislike a thing, it's banned

I didn't want to ban hoopa because it was great at shitting on stall but it was too good and had to go

>Daily reminder that mega sableye is the best mega

>>26715653
Here you go.

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/glorious-pass-standard-baton-pass-chain.3506272/

This is the guy who got Baton Pass popular and banned (he himself agreed to the ban actually).

>>26715664
>>26715666
I believe in a swords dance Aegislash

>>26715693
I will except that you've played smogon for over a year.

>>26715693
>Sableye has been the prankster archetype since Gen 5
>Game Freak made it the face of stall, creating the ultimate troll

POTTERY

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>>26715707
>you will never have a real baton pass jolteon

>>26715678
heh...your a 1000 years to early to trick me with such obvious bait...kid...!!!!

>>26714892
>What is Perish Song

>>26715665
Dragon tail? I see what you mean though because then you run into Sylveon

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>>26715727
I run an unconventional mega sableye on an offensive balance team. actually, I despise stall players

Rest of the team is Garchomp, amoongus, manaphy, Tornadus-T and a Heatran

the core of the setup is the sabletran, and since I run offensive baloon tran I can cover all of the pairs weaknesses easily, 252 spa tran's flash cannon absolutely shits on clefable and he can counter other trans by holding the balloon and using EP

I spent a lot of time building this team actually, Used to have a latios but I was too weak to bulky waters and fairys so I put on the amoongus

>>26715693
I fucking hate that thing with a passion and should be banned, you need a fairy type move or M-Lopunny, which Clefable and Chansey complement too well

>>26715755
Dragon Tail doesn't Phaze if you have a Sub up.

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>>26715770
Mega lopunny truly does counter sableye well, my only hope really is to burn it as it swaps in because sableye cannot eat a HJK

as for other sableye counters, Heatran eats fairies for days and the only thing the perfectly walls my sableye set >>26715764 would be a pyroar, which still loses to garchomp and heatran and would never be in OU anyway

>>26715802
Super multi battles with a friend are fun af

My m8 brought a specs rotom with discharge and I brought a classic OU garchomp EQ spammer

>Caring about Smogon

Learn to think for yourselves and stop forcing their stupid rules on others.

>>26715824
If it comes down to Lopunny vs Sab in the very beginning, Stall players will sometimes take the fake out with normal sab and then prio willo on the second turn. Mega Sab then lives HJK with about 20% and you have a burned Lop.

>>26715824
So it should be banned?

It destroys HO, Balance, and stall itself

>>26715707
HAHAHA THEY ACTUALLY BANNED PASSING BOOSTS

AND YOU FAGGOTS ACTUALLY ACCEPT IT

Funny how nobody gave a shit about Swagger and Baton Pass until Smogon said they were bad.

>>26715833
Sorry I want to be in a place where I can quickly change my teams and avoid shit like OHKO moves or spore spam

>>26715874
>avoid shit like OHKO moves
Literally the easiest kind of move to avoid.

>spore spam
Also possible. Safeguard, grass type, a bunch of abilities, restalk sets, good old killing while being faster or having priority...

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>>26715845
Neat, Usually I already have sableye megaed before the lopunny comes in though, that works to burn the lopunny but sableye still needs to swap out afterwards and heal on some setup fodder later, usually has a nice time coming in on status due to the magic bounce

My awnser to lopunny is usually just a tornadus hurricane, which can miss sometimes, but torn can take one ice punch from lop

>>26715847
Mega lopunny still is pretty frail, despite being a problem for a lot of teams, I see it a lot on low ladder teams as a fake out and then swap to repeat later and then come in at the end and sweep the weakened team down, and it's effective without much effort due to the scrappy ability making it unable to be walled by normal/fighting counters like sableye

It's a good solid mega, powerful, but still has weaknesses and suffers move slot syndrome a lot when it needs to pick between coverage or being able to priority or use things like encore to shit on setup sweepers like zard X

Mega lop is good but not banworthy

>>26715907
He was being facetious. Also, it's hilarious when you switch in Tankchomp on fake out Lop and it loses 25% of its health for nothing.

>>26715907
I was taking about Sableye being banned.....

M-Lopunny's good but not too good by any means

>everything that gets shadow tag is a shitmon with one exception
>said exception has all the defense of a piece of paper and dies to a light breeze
Then there's also a plethora of abilities, moves and items that directly counter it, the fact that ghosts are imminue to it and all the taggers are weak to dark, psychic and bug. Shadow tag is hilariously easy to deal with compared to Prankster, Gale Wings or even Magic Bounce for starters. You might have an argument if something like Skarmory got Shadow Tag but it don't.

>b-but you always have to carry a counter SE attack!
The fuck? All 3 users can be 2HKO'd by strong neutral attacks.

You always have to carry a counter to stealth rock and eviolite and we don't see those getting banned.

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>>26715924
I oughta try out rocky helmet chomp, but I'm really having too much fun with the lum berry swords dance set

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>>26715950
Well mega sableye isn't banworthy at all, it's been suspected already and you can go read that if you want to know why

Sableye has a lot of counters that you need to be prepared for

>It's still my favorite mega aside from gardevoir, but that base 80 speed on the first turn is painful to use

>>26715907
>pic

C-cute! Lopunny and Sableye are in the same egg group

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>>26715979
Huh, I never really memorized egg groups since I started playing smogon, I don't need to breed shit anymore. There's still plenty of improvment to be made to my team anyway, I think my garchomp setup with EQ/Dclaw/SD/SR is kinda lacking and I'm thinking of running the rocky helmet chomp now anyway, maybe scrapping the SD

Sableye is adorable as hell

People care too much
Stop feeling like smogon is canon or enforced on you? If you don't like smogon you don't have to care about it?

The only problem I really see with smogon is that for some reason it convinces the community that they're entitled to their safehaven boxing culture outside of smogon (same with pokemon showdown). I have friends who won't battle just because sometimes my team will have a legendary or 2 in it, just because they know smogon classifies them as uber. I don't know why it happened but for some reason people have this weird autistic anti-legendary mindset. So when it comes to choosing favs or a team people get upset because they only want to use non-legendary shitmon that they like. They then try to validate their loss to stronger pokemon like legendaries by saying "oh you used a stronger pokemon". Well, no fucking shit I used a stronger pokemon, it's not my fault that the pokemon I like are better than yours?

What smogon is doing is giving people who like shitmon a chance, they don't have to be legendary pokemon they ban either. For example Gothitelle was banned because it's pretty solid against many, many special attackers. It's in the same boat as some other legendary ubers for just having stats or abilities that overshadow 90% of the pokemon in the game. (not accurate numbers, just an exaggeration)

If you play against random people or friends, and you support smogon - do NOT force your shitty smogon culture on to them. If they want to use ubers, then get over yourself. Chances are they just want a fun battle with things they genuinely like, it is these types of people who enforce smogon rules or think they apply everywhere that are the problem. You're the ones trying too hard to win, you're the ones purposely running teams that "ruin" people's fun.

>>26715653

>What is Ingrain
>What is Magic Bounce

>>26716102
tl;dr "that's an uber" - no, it's not, it's only uber in smogon and you need to keep that shit to yourself.

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>>26716102
When skill is the deciding factor in a match, you can;t have people bringing teams of Darkrai and mega rayquazas

They ban things to promote more skill based play and less reliance on OHKOs and just retarded button mashing

If you don't believe that, look at the fucking mess that is VGC right now, every team has the same 10 or so mons and there is no skill or variety whatsoever, primal don and kyogre on every team with a mega fug and a xerneas

It's absolutely awful and I prefer smogon over VGC any day

TLDR; you're a cheap faggot for liking the ubers, go play ubers and don't complain when nobody wants to deal with your bullshit mons

>>26716102
People not wanting to play against legendary Pokemon has nothing to do with Smogon. That mindset has (justifiably) been around since Gen 1 and Mewtwo.

It feels (and is) a cheap way to play, and if you want to use your donutsteel legendary Pokemon find yourself some idiot who plays along.

>>26715052
>It would ruin setup sweepers
DD or SD and the dragon tail spam becomes real, you can't ruin setup sweepers with a new kind of setup sweepers. That only becomes the problem bigger.

>>26715040

You're the exact type of person to shit on Smogon for having a lot of stall while shitting on Smogon for banning Gothitelle and heavily weakening stall.

Do you not understand that you can't use 24 moveslots to beat every Pokemon in the game? You people come in here and say "oh just beat it instead of banning it" but you never say how. The truth is there is no way of beating Gothitelle stall effectively without losing to every other team on the ladder.

People saying just use Bug Ghost and Dark are fucked in the head. Basically they're saying always have one Pokemon in at all fucking times so that when Gothitelle traps it you can be crippled with a Choice Scarf but remove Gothitelle.

The point of Stall is to have a Pokemon to counter everything. The Pokemon that give this trouble (Rain Dance Manaphy, Heracross, Clefable, Talonflame, NP Togekiss, Serperior) all rely on their ability to switch moves and to not be trapped, outsped and OHKOed in the case of Heracross. Not only do you have to predict on the 50/50 literally perfectly for an entire game to be able to use them (which is just completely luck based), you can't knock anything out or they can switch into Gothitelle on the revenge. The alternative of running Shed Shell means that you're often completely wasting an item that is usually vital (mainly Leftovers on stallbreakers).

>>26715233
What is a "Gothiloli"?

>>26714984

>when the autism takes over

>>26715764
Wouldn't Dark Pulse be better in this set?

>>26714770
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-189149327

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>>26717735
DP is resisted by a lot of things, where shadow ball is simply immuned by normal types, the two moves have a lot of overlapping coverage anyway, but the things that are immune to shadow ball still eat a burn anyway (exception being pyroar, but when is pyroar in OU?)

You could also run snarl

Reminder that Charizard X can body a Mega Sableye if you get it in soon enough.

>>26716173
LOL what skill? The entire game is RNG and the only skill you can hope to have is lessening that.

You have no idea what the opponents pokemon are before initiating battle. You have no idea which one theyre sending out, you have no idea what 4 moves they have, the item theyre holding, the stats theyve distributed. To say there is any skill in pokemon is a complete farce. Then it's people like you who run the same broken shit again and again, like yeah you might be battling in OU but what's the difference if you're going to spam the saaaaaaaaaame top tier pokemon again and again and again. It makes you literally no better than people who spam legendary pokemon.

Yeah, I use legendary pokemon and you cant fucking deal with them so you have to retreat to your safehaven so you're not triggered. Yeah, we know the VGC randoms are retarded af, but holy shit you take this game way too seriously? "I play pokemon competitively on smogon bc vgc is too unfair" whoop de fucking shit, put that on your resume.

I'm not a cheap faggot, nobody has to vs me, and I barely bother with it. But when someone does want to vs me well fuck you, you get to use your fav pokemon so im using mine. Fuck off and get a grip.

Also for the record I never once said smogon was awful or unfair, I said don't take your shitty mindset and made up rules outside of smogon. If you're not in smogon you're not entitled to feel ANYTHING about someone beating your ass with ubers, using ubers or whatever they decide. You lost because you choose to continue using OU or less shit outside of smogon for your autistic ocd about being "fair" or somehow "better". If you can't beat a team with 1 or 2 ubers then maybe you should realize there is no "skill". Like fuck, we all know you have tabs open to see what common sets and stats are. SO MUCH SKILL. SOOOOOOOOO GOOD. Can I be like u daddy?

>>26719798
>That sentence construction
>It's just a game bro
>I don't take this seriously anyway xD
>Whoop de fucking shit
>"vs" being a verb

Say it with me now, /vp/

You
Have
To
Be
18
To
Post
Here

>>26715309
spoted the retard

>>26714770
they are shit at the game and don't know better

>>26719798
You

>>26720120
have

>>26714770
who cares what smogon does? I go to real tournaments and play real competitive pokemon. you should try it unless you think you can't compete with the best players in the world

ITT: a bunch of retards who think a Pokémon shouldn't be banned because it can be countered by a trashmon in some circumstances, and don't understand that this is exactly why it was banned

Literally every Smogon sheep post reads as:

BAA BAA BAA

>>26720163
There are multiple ways to get out of Shadow Tag though

In the end, you beat Shadow Tag by outplaying your opponent and not making shit teams. Apparently this is too much for Smogon.

>>26720163
It's fucking Wobuffet, Gothitelle and Mega Gengar

Two of them are terrible Pokemon and one of them has the defenses of a paper bag alongside a massive helping of weaknesses.

If you don't know how to beat these 3 pokemon I don't know why you would even bother to play competitively.

>>26720182
You beat shadow tag by spamming phazing moves which are complete shit anyway and a waste of a moveslot for one pokemon.

File: fuck you vp.png (525KB, 1564x771px) Image search: [Google]

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Take home messages:

1. Fuck Smogon because they only use Stall. Fuck Smogon because they banned Stall's best asset.

2. Fuck Smogon for using the same few Pokemon in every game. How can I use my favorite shitmon? If only they had multiple tiers that allowed the use of different Pokemon no matter how shit! Instead I'll play VGC where every Pokemon is used abundantly.

3. If
>>26720165
you
>>26720119
have
>>26720182
no
>>26715424
clue
>>26715377
how
>>26715327
competitive
>>26715325
Pokemon
>>26715243
just
>>26715209
be
>>26715086
>>26715061 (these 2 are important to read together)
vague,
>>26714869
dismissive
>>26714784
and stupid, without any real arguments because if you hate on Smogon, a nice man on Youtube lets you be part of his Wolf Pack. Honestly, I would like to see someone actually provide an example of a team that operates in OU without anything that Gothitelle traps and beats.

>this entire fucking thread

>>26720195
The opponent chooses what it wants these Pokémon to confront unless you're using a shed shell, sure you can counter it but how exactly do you stop them from killing exactly what they know their Goth or Gengar can handle? Perish Trap Gengar is very good in the VGC also for that very reason.

>>26720195
Gothitelle had more than enough to cripple teams severely and teams specifically made to beat it couldn't handle lots of other threats, and Mega Gengar is sanic as shit, hits like a nuclear bomb with disgusting coverage, has tons of sets (including Perish Trap without needing Mean Look) with various ways to cripple you. It was by far the best mega in Ubers before Mega Croissant came along.

>>26720195
Too overcentralizing you goddamn retard.

>>26720231
>e-everyone who shits on smogon must be a casual and be as retarded as Verlisify!
>projecting this hard
Maybe if you played outside of your meme simulator for once you'd come to understand why Smogon's mentality and reasonings are a joke

>>26720254
Just stop anon, you're embarrassing yourself.

>>26720226
Are you aware that Pokemon is not a one-dimensional game, where countering and beating something is far more complex than just "use this one move"

>>26720254
I think most people on Smogon forums are fucking assholes, but to say they have no competitive idea and that people who claim that literally every Pokemon on your team of 6 should not be beaten by Gothitelle (meaning they are basically all scarfed or some shit) know more than them is fucking retarded. There's a reason the voting process is only for players that actually win games.

>>26720271
>There's a reason the voting process is only for players that actually win games
This might have mattered 5 years ago, these days smogon's playerbase is full of scrubs, as evident by many things that have happened throughout gen 6

>>26720270
How the fuck do you something that prevents switch and cant be magic coat or bounced? With phazing moves obviously or oneshotting the gengar but who the fuck actually runs ghost moves for coverage unless they have terrible special movepools?

Also to all you antismogonfags plz for once play a tier that isnt OU you fucking retards.

>>26720285
...so what are you saying? They still need to get a really good win/loss. The one time I bothered to go for reqs (coincidentally on the Sableye Goth ban) I had to get something like a 50 and 10 win loss before I broke 2700.

>>26720182
>>26720195
What don't you guys fucking understand
(M-Gengar was already banned, and banning the ability Shadow tag kept Gothitelli out of Ubers)

You need to have all 6 of your Pokemon to be ready for a gothielli trapping you in and sweeping your Pokemon which forces you to to prepare all 6 of your team members to handle one ability or you will be trapped and then proceeded to be boosted against

>>26720303
The point is that being successful at Smogon doesn't mean you have an understanding of competitive as a whole. They have outdated philosophies that have been passed down since like gen 3/4 and because of that have a very rigid way of playing the game.

>>26720231
Not him but OU really Isn't that all that diverse and I like it, Lando at all levels is used 33% of the time

>>26720396
>muh evasion
>muh swagplay
>muh item clause

Fuck off faggot, it's not like you can't just play Battle Spot or AG.

>>26720368
Why can't you adapt your team so that it doesn't crumble to a Gothitelle so easily? It's not like you need a team of 6 dark types, just a little bit of thought to handle it

>>26720396
Only OU and Ubers are rigid godddamit why do you fucking retards never play UU or NU where there is nothing but diversity in strategy?

>>26720404
I'm talking about general mentality and playstyle, not the rules specifically

Thinking item clause is bad however proves my point exactly

Because that's not fun, why play a kids game if I can't have fun?

>inb4 Stall

Stall is fun for me

>>26720408
No. You do fucking need 6 coverage moves. It will switch in and trap you. All it needs is one opening

>>26720408
Why must you change your team to counter one fucking pokemon? Teams are made flexible to counter a number of things but specific counters are out of the question and ruin flexiblity.

>>26720408
>Why can't you adapt every team you make to beat one Pokémon

Hell, this is exactly what the first comment of the chain is saying, it's stupid and that's why it's banned.

>>26720403
This is a very important thing that very few people seem to understand - Pokemon by its very nature results in certain Pokemon being used a ton. VGC is the same as Smogon (probably worse due to the whole 2 Ubers thing) in that some Pokemon get all the usage.

You ban Landorus, Garchomp or Gliscor spike in usage. It's not something you can ever fix. The simple fact of the matter is that some Pokemon are good and some are shit. To say that someone is bad because they only know how to use the best Pokemon is a terrible argument. It's like trying to win an NBA game with a bunch of 5 foot white guys guys because "the others are overused"

>>26720408
It's not about trying not to "crumble to Gothitelle," it's about not crumbling to Stall after Gothitelle removes your best anti-stall Pokemon.

>>26720428
>>26720434
>adapting to the metagame is a foreign concept
Only on fucking Smogon. No other competitive community has this garbage mindset.

You don't need to overhaul your whole team just do you don't get swept by a Gothitelle

>>26720449
See >>26720445

Gothitelle stall is cancer of the highest degree. He beats your stall breaker and then you lose.

>>26720449
Shut the fuck up faggot you dont know shit about balance at all, Shadowtag Gengar is a pain in the ass to get rid of when you cant one shot it and the inability for strategic switching makes it a game of the opponent buttong mashing Shadow Ball over and over.

Im very serious anon plz commit suicide for the sake of this discussion you pile of human excrement.

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>>>autistic faggots not even getting the reiqs and voting: the thread
If you want to play with your "not OP" mons go out and actually fucking prove that they are fit for OU by doing the suspect tests if you're so good. Enough with this "Smogon bans because they aren't good" meme.

>>26720454
>oh no I have to put thought into teambuilding and can't just click the switch button whenever I get outplayed :(
get gud

>>26720449
Yes you do. Gothitelle IN THIS VERY SCENARIO (of GothStall teams) could, as long as the player wasn't so retarded, eventually trap your Stallbreaker(s) as soon as you brought them out, forcing you to run shit niche stuff like Shed Shell 'Phy. If you have to be prepared for it on any team, if it entirely MOLDS the way you teambuild, it is too much. Adapting to the meta is one thing, being forced to counter a specific piece of fuck with unusual sets on any team archetype, essentially lowering diversity and restricting what you can use is another.

>>26720457
You are limited to four fucking moves you stupid faggot, each pokemon member has a defined role and once it cant do the role it needs to be swap to something that can do the role that needs to be done instead learn to team build you stupid fucking pile of monkey faeces.

>>26720449
Yes you do. One chink letting it trap you and boost, and then sweep. What don't you understand

>>26720453
>>26720460
Then get a better stallbreaker. Goth is a generic psychic type with average defenses and low speed, good offensive Pokemon should never be shut down by it straight away

This sounds more like an issue with Smogon making their meta so stall oriented

>>26720469
>use a Pokemon that can't touch Gothitelle
>MOM I GOT TRAPPED AND SWEPT WHY

>>26720470
The thing is, with Goth around, you couldn't hope to setup once. You'd get trapped, tricked a scarf, Goth would boost, get its scarf back, and sweep the fuck out of you if your darks were gone. One wrong predict, one attempt at boosting or using anything that isn't an offensive move, or a weak one like HP, and you were fucked. Gg no re git gud.

>>26720470
YOURE FUCKING FORGETTING WE CANNOT SWTICH OUT TO OUR FUCKING STALL BREAKER UNTIL THEYVE BOOSTED THEIR FUCKING STATS AND GAVE THEMSELVES A FUCKING CHOICE SCARF AT MAX SPECIAL ATTACK

>>26720470
Name ONE Pokemon that threatens standard Stall (Chansey, Sableye, Skarm, Amoonguss and Quagsire) without being beaten by Gothitelle

>>26720438
This.

Furthermore, just because something is used more, its not a 1 to 1 indicator that it's better, just more consistently reliable.

Landorus is used so often because it's a fantastic back bone. It's consistent. It's easy to fit on teams. That doesn't mean other pokemon can't do certain similar jobs better. OU has a really huge viability pool, you can easily build a team without Landorus that works perfectly find.


If anything, having pokemon see consistent usage despite being not necessarily "the defacto best" is healthy for the metagame. It gives everything something to pivot and revolve around without it becoming too potent of a threat. Again, Landorus is a great pokemon, but it doesnt require team specialization to take down, pretty much any typical Ice or Water attacks will get the job done, easy.

>>26720470
But you cant swtich once Goth is on the field you goddamn retard, and the opponent isnt stupid enough to not kill your anti gothmon before spamming goth afterwards.

>>26720483
A stallbreaker shouldn't need to switch out, you retard

>>26714789
>>26714824
>>26714852
It's always a pleasure seeing showderp sets being banned by smogon. It makes smogon so fucking ridiculous.

>>26720470
>a better stallbreaker.
>everything on my team has to be stronger than something with 100 Sp. Attack and the ability to go to +3 in a single turn and also STAB Scald
+3 252 SpA Manaphy Scald vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gothitelle: 184-217 (53.4 - 63%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

>low speed

Gothitelle Thunder Wave vs. Manaphy

>>26720474
I could literally have 5 dark types and I would still get swept because that last Pokemon doesn't have any counters to one Pokemon

Get swept

>>26720505
You should always have it in? When you are forgetting you have a rest of a team to worry about?

>>26720468
>each pokemon member has a defined role

they don't all have to
use your dark types in a more unpredictable way and you'll see gengar is just a little faggot

>>26720754
Gengar can just Focus Blast you. Or disable your sucker punch prediction. And then good luck beating the rest of the team with your monotype armada.

>>26720754
>use dark type
>on gengar
Hope you like Focus Miss.

>>26720758
>focus miss
>hitting

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>>26720769

>>26720539
If you really think Choice Gothitelle was a showderp-only or showderp-original set, you're in some sort of bubble cut off from the world.

Gothitelle is a Psychic type, there shouldn't be any problems at all.

Literally every single argument in this thread boils down to stall being the problem, not shadow tag. Why am I not surprised.

Today I learned Smogon users are too stupid to kill a mono-psychic type with mediocre defenses and don't how how to handle trick.

They must fumble like retards any time they infestation or a trick Reuniculus. Must be hard to be so inept.

>>26720947
Today I learned anti-Smogon kids are so dense they assume the matter of fainting the Goth was the real obstacle.

They must fumble like retards any time they have to bring up how actually knowledgeable of competitive they are.

>>26720947
Oh so you must be one of the top 200 trainers, right? Or are you one of those "I'm really super good at Pokemon battling I only lose because I dont like those ugly broken mons like Lando and Ferrothorn"

>>26720858
Showderp's Gothitelle has Confide, Charm, Rest and Flash with Leftovers.

>>26722088
Yes, I know. I'm from Showderp.

>>26722092
ayy haha

>>26722110
me too thanks

Can anyone explain why Smogon bans actual game mechanics? Like the game was made like that, don't fucking edit it for your gay needs.

>>26722279
.....? Are you calling gf competent?


They made a mega Fug with 780 stats 180/180 attack with dragon dance at 115 speed. That thing broke fucking Ubers

>>26722288
With NO MEGA STONE

>>26722279
Because the game is unbalanced and Smogon tries to tidy it up to make it suitable for single player 6v6. Did you ever wonder why GF made the official format doubles? They don't know what the fuck they're doing competitive-wise either (and admitted it with their handling of Mega Kang and Aegislash for example) so the doubles format is a means of discouraging setup and stall, which would dominate the game without bans and make the game un-fun.

Smogon tries to make as many Pokemon coexist as possible in a competitive environment, at the cost of having to cope with stall when banning and cope with HO when not banning.

Have you seen how many Dislikes the Battle of Hoenn competition finals match got? It's because a Moody Sheer Cold Glalie was on the victor's team, and the win execution was disgusting.

>>26720125
aids

>>26720163
agreed

>>26715707
>something used haze
>something used taunt

>>26723135
>magic bounce

>>26723146
haze goes through magic bounce

>>26723135
Hey you disgusting pile of shit, did you even bother reading what moves and abilities that the pokemon on that team had? Neither of that would work.

>>26723154
>impying any sane person would use one of their 24 for moves on fucking haze which less than 30 lines can get

>>26723135
Taunt doesn't work because of Magic Bounce.

Haze Quagsire was the ONLY pokemon that could reliably deal with it. You had to start running quagsire every single fucking game if you were above 1600+. Most haze users are goddamn terrible and were just destroyed by this team.

This damn team had an answer to everything. Even quagsire wasn't completely safe.

You guys are being baited

He's just trying to be el ebic trole.

>>26723223
I use it on my Mega Altaria and I got to 1800 easily before the Hoopa-U ban.
Man it feels good to not be a shitter.

boom

>>26715968
why would you use verlisify thumbail

>>26715306

>Having both offensive and defensive Pokemon on the same team is bad teambuilding.

Are you new to competitive or something? That is simply not true, in fact that's exactly what the balanced playstyle is: a team that uses anything from bulky attackers, to full on defensive mons, offensive mons, pivots, hazard setters/removers.

Plus most every offensive team has some kind of pivot or defensive mon that can get up Rocks or Spikes.

There's also a popular stall team that uses 5 defensive mons + Weavile.

You don't know what you're talking about.