>It now gets Icicle Crash. Is it good now?

>>26651792
Yes.

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Can you imagine how embarrassing it must be to be a cover legendary that isn't an uber? I bet Kyurem-B gets bullied so much.

>>26651792
Good in what regard? It'd be dominating in OU and still flat out ass in ubers.

>>26651810
not only that but it has a higher BST than most legendaries.

>>26651792
It's already good. It's pretty dumb that's not in Ubers. Might as well bring Lugia down to OU since Mega Sableye and Bisharp beat it. Oh and don't forget Yveltal, who's walled by Clefable. And I've had my eye on Giratina...

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>>26651991

>>26652013
Feel free to dispute anything I said. Kyu-B does more than they do considering there is no counter in its tier (or below) for all its sets.

>>26651792
Outrage and even Dclaw are still better physical nukes on it. What it really wants is earthquake

>>26652035
It is hindered by it's own moveset and defensive typing, shut down by burns, and has problems with Ferrothorn, Latios, Lanorous-T, Scizor, and the problems associated with thoughtless Choice Item Spam.

>>26651991
kyube doesn't have good enough coverage on its main attacking stat to be good in ubers. Kyurem-w gets both its stabs (one of which is draco meteor and the other of which is ice beam), and two fantastic coverage moves on its main stat.

B is great mixed because of its special movepool and ridiculously high base attack (which makes outrage and fusion bolt rather fearsome even uninvested), but its physical movepool is still garbage and that holds it back enough for it to merely be one of the best nukes in OU.

Lugia walls even most Uber pokemon, and Yveltal is basically a bulkier mandibuzz with a draining move. Kyube isn't even in the same league as that. Hell, white kyurem is barely decent in ubers, despite being able to play to its stats so much better than black kyurem.

>>26653008
Its moveset is good enough.

Its typing is quite valuable since it allows it to take just neutral from Ice, and stand up to Tail Glow Manaphy as well as Mega Manectric and Raikou.

Saying it's shut down by burns is laughable when you can say that about most broken physical attackers. 'Mega Rayquaza is shut down by burns, why is it banned lol'

It can and sometimes does run HP Fire since people like to switch in Ferro and Mega Scizor so easily on it. Iron Head catches Fairies.

Latios is a check, not a counter.

>>>>>>>Lando-T

The Choice set is probably its worst set unless facing HO. The LO set with the option of Roost to render mons like Raikou useless is what's the most successful.

>>26651792
>>26651907
Cube doesn't have a way to break through shit like Ferrothorn with physically oriented sets. Icicle Crash grants it the ability to run Scarf/Band/Physical(-Mix) LO and break a lot of walls it couldn't break before. Crash/Bolt/Earth Power/Roost as a set by itself would be enough to but Cube in Ubers.

>>26651991
>>26652035
You asked.

Cube isn't hard countered by anything other than Defensive Mega Scizor, but its effectively countered by every one of its sets having a good number of counters and 20+ checks. Cube has difficulty switching in, dealing meaningful damage, and still surviving. Ferrothorn and Chansey (yes, Chansey counters something with 170 Attack) are effective counters since they can beat the sets that cube pulls off most effectively. they don't beat Specs or Band (respectively), but that doesn't really matter since those sets have many more counters than mixed roost kyurem.

Lugia's been discussed and rejected quite often considering it'd have near 100% usage since it's viable on every team type and has no downside to use, any stall mirror becomes whos Lugia falls first, etc.

I've never seen Yveltal talked about since it shreds through the tier effortlessly. Clef and Diancie Counter, TTar and Klefki check, but unlike Cube... that's pretty much the list. Yes, there's stuff that can revenge Yveltal (you can revenge Mega Ray even as low as NU), but nothing else in the tier can actually touch it. Every single Cube set has at least as many counters and ten times as many checks as Yveltal does, and that's ONE Yveltal set. Your counters might not even apply to other sets!

Giratina was actually tested! Even if it was a joke. We saw the meta with Giratina in it. It wasn't THAT broken, and it was kinda interesting. It was still clearly above the power level of everything in the tier (and this was when there were less bans/higher power level in OU), but it was an interesting ladder to play.

>>26651991
Giratina has been brought down before as a joke newfag. Might as well argue why it should be banned instead of that shitty analogy.

>>26653023
So what? Since when has Ubers needed to be a balanced tier where everything is perfectly viable? It's a ban list first and foremost.

Lugia isn't going to be doing much in OU with Rocks up and Bisharp running around other than being another Cresselia. Yveltal still isn't a threat in OU where there are more Fairies.

>>26652035
>it has no counters
So what? Hydreigon had no counters back in Gen 5 and it barely made the OU reqs every tier shift.

>>26653169
>Since when has Ubers needed to be a balanced tier where everything is perfectly viable? It's a ban list first and foremost.
Not him but since a while oldfag-kun. That shit changed over a year ago.

>>26653208
That's still only for banning things FROM Ubers. Banning things TO Ubers has nothing to do with Ubers balance.

>>26653216
No shit. Everyone is already useable there. Ubers is still no longer the universal ban list and only OU's.

>>26653080
>Its moveset is good enough.
The Tao Dragons in general have tiny movesets compared to their peers. White Kyurem and Reshiram have compact but effective movesets, Zekrom has 4MSS, Black Kyurem has mostly suboptimal options, Kyurem itself probably is the worst.

>Its typing
Dragon/Ice is bad defensively, it has 5 common weaknesses and only resists Water, Grass and Electric. Everything you've outlined as an attribute is mostly due to its massive stat bulk.

>burns
Is a major problem when you have little meaningful physical attacks, no good attack boosting options and a weakness to Stealth Rock. Meanwhile,

>+2 252 Atk Life Orb burned Mega Rayquaza Dragon Ascent vs. 252 HP / 56+ Def Primal Groudon: 188-222 (46.5 - 54.9%) -- 69.5% chance to 2HKO

>HP Fire, Iron Head
It has 170 attack and a cover legend, it should NOT need a Hidden Power at all. It only uses Iron Head because its what it can scrap up.

>Latios
True.

>>26653123
HP Fire sets break Mega Scizor, and we don't use the idea that 'several Pokemon exist so it can't hit everything' as a precedent for deeming it to have no counters, otherwise Greninja wouldn't be a problem.

>Cube has difficulty switching in, dealing meaningful damage
I beg to differ. It comes in for free on the most common Electric types, as well as Grass types like Tangrowth and Amoonguss or more passive mons like Hippowdown.

Chansey gets 2HKO'd by Outrage, which can appear in lieu of Roost or just in general.

>Lugia's been discussed and rejected quite often considering it'd have near 100% usage since it's viable on every team type and has no downside to use, any stall mirror becomes whos Lugia falls first, etc.
That's just a mentality that you see when things enter the tier. It would mellow out after time if it remained since it's basically free setup from Bisharp and quite often Taunt bait. Whenever something new becomes playable, people go to it to play with and it turns into a matter of Lugia + whatever counters its counters in a back and forth, at the start.

Clef and Diancie are all you need (although I'm sure there are more) when you consider the only sure Mega Pinsir answers are Zapdos and Skarmory and people deal with it fine enough.

>>26653141
And I know about the Giratina suspect test. It was an April Fool's joke and they had no intention to bring it back. It did well enough with OU mons.

>>26653169
Since Mega-Fug, my man. Ubers is a proper tier now.

>>26653298
>common electric types
>using outrage
>lugia is fine in OU because Bisharp exists
Your opinions are beyond worthless but I'd really like to know your elo

Someone pull out the bingo. This thread is a classic.

>>26653186
Chansey, takes Superpowers

>>26653208
Isn't Primal Groudon like 70+% usage? How is that balanced?

>>26653292
The typing and the bulk go hand in hand to make it part of the reason it's so good. It doesn't need to boost Atk but has Hone Claws if it ever wants to. Mega Ray has a Stealth Rock weakness.

>It has 170 attack and a cover legend, it should NOT need a Hidden Power at all. It only uses Iron Head because its what it can scrap up.
It'll stop when people stop assuming Mega Scizor and Ferro are safe switch-ins for it, since it can adapt to whatever the meta best uses to deal with it. I've literally seen them being used since it's the best lure, and I use one with HP Fire myself just because of how effective it is at drawing them in every time. It can do Iron Head with a Magnezone in the back if it really wants to.

>>26653415
>Chansey, takes Superpowers
still wasn't a counter at that time
>Isn't Primal Groudon like 70+% usage? How is that balanced?
Said nothing about it being balanced.

>>26653415
Chansey didn't even guarantee the counter with rocks.

PGroudon holds back Xerneas too, so choosing between banning both or banning neither, they've chosen to ban neither. Groudon isn't oppressing the tier really either, it's just preventing huge attackers from running out of control.

HP Fire doesn't even 1 shot the sets that are generally used to counter Cube, Scizor can force a dumb BP/Roost 50/50 still, and HP Fire sets open themselves up to even more counters since you're not running something else. The more checks/counters you have, the better your odds a random mon on your team is one of them.

>>26653298
See above for HP Fire.

See >>26653353 for pretty much everything else. All the points here are joke clearly thought up by someone who's never really played the tier.

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>>26653353
Zapdos, Raikou, Mega Manectric, or even Rotom-W if you predict a non-WoW move

>not using LO Outrage when it can get a free kill against non-resists or at the least a 2HKO

And yeah I gave you an example of something that exploits Lugia. You know what else does? Mega Sableye. You know what else does? Clefable. Even Heatran just shuts it down hard until players start adapting with running Water moves on it.

>Your opinions are beyond worthless but I'd really like to know your elo

You say that as if it'd make a difference in your mind. A low Elo you'll probably just call typical and a high Elo you'll probably just say 'wow this guy can get that high and he sounds retarded to me!'

>>26653415
>The typing and the bulk go hand in hand to make it part of the reason it's so good.
Ice is holding it back. Most of what you outlined as benefits of Dragon/Ice it can do while just being Dragon. Even if it can come in on Ice Beams and HP Ice its vulnerable to all hazards.

>It doesn't need to boost Atk but has Hone Claws if it ever wants to.
It would goddamn help a couple of magnitudes if it had some of the more popular stat boosts that Dragons usually get. Anything to abuse Teravolt.

>Mega Ray has a Stealth Rock weakness.
Insignificant in the wake of its wrath.

>I've literally seen them being used since it's the best lure
I agree, it does do that well.

>>26653292
>It has 170 attack and a cover legend, it should NOT need a Hidden Power at all. It only uses Iron Head because its what it can scrap up.
Goddammit anon. Just when I thought you knew your shit. It has one of those two moves all the damn time. It still isn't ban worthy of the slightest anymore tho.

Again /vp/ showing why its terrible at competitive lol

>>26653487
>still wasn't a counter at that time
Yeah well it was.

>Said nothing about it being balanced.
I did.

>>26653530
>Chansey didn't even guarantee the counter with rocks.
Did you not account for Superpower being weaker on the second hit?

I imagine Aegislash held Xerneas down anyway.

>HP Fire doesn't even 1 shot the sets that are generally used to counter Cube, Scizor can force a dumb BP/Roost 50/50 still, and HP Fire sets open themselves up to even more counters since you're not running something else. The more checks/counters you have, the better your odds a random mon on your team is one of them.
2 is all that matters, since Bullet Punch from the defensive set won't kill Kyu-B. And Ferro's recovery options are limited so it's not that big a threat. SpD Jirachi is the closest thing to an answer to the majority of Kyu-B's sets, but you'd literally be stuck Wish+Protecting on Earth Powers.

>>26653596
>Yeah well it was
Check =/= counter
>>26653596
Did you not account for Superpower being weaker on the second hit?
Still 2HKOed after hazards.

>>26653596
Chansey only lives vs 0 Atk Hydreigon. Just because that's the current analysis doesn't mean it's how its always been, since BW HAS had ban changes since Gen 6 hit.

Aegis/MSciz barely held down Xerneas. Sometimes it'd blast past them anyways. PDon isn't even that great of a Xern counter and it still fares better, which is a good example of how stupidly overpowered Xern is and how it absolutely requires as many counters in the tier as possible.

Yeah, the 2hko is all that really matters, but it means you still lose to them on the double (so much for beating your counter!) and with rocks chipping at cube, you still only trade 1 for 1 AT BEST by predicting an HP fire on a scizor switch and losing 1 50/50 guess on the bp/roost mixup, at the cost of being countered by many more mons and very easily worn down due to lack of roost (you're not fitting hp fire and roost on the same set without being completely worthless).

>>26653553
>It has one of those two moves all the damn time.
That's correct. I'm making a case that Kyurem-Black is in OU instead of Ubers primarily because it has a small and ineffective movepool.

>It still isn't ban worthy of the slightest anymore tho.
True.

>>26653584
Can we get an A for effort?

>>26653537
That list is only relevant when it gets to +2. There's the whole part of it needing the SD first. The big Ubers are pushing 4 counters/checks total from the word go. Not to mention even at +2 Pinsir has more checks than Yveltal does (Talon is a good example). Yveltal is just one of the worst examples you could've pulled for this because even among Ubers, it's really fucking strong. Reshiram would be a lot easier to defend since it's actually comparable to some OU threats, Yveltal is just so far beyond anything in OU it really shouldn't even be discussed.

Lugia's check and counters kinda show why it's broken though. Games come down to Lugia/Sableye/Clefable/3 filler. Almost every team runs this. The entire meta IS Lugia. Why not run Lugia when if your opponent's team isn't Lugia/Sab/Clef, you auto win? There's simply no sufficient way to beat a team revolving around Lugia without making a team revolving around Lugia. Mega Sab was a few votes away from a ban for the very same reason and its leagues weaker.

That photos pretty clearly legit, but it's hard as hell to really very if its yours since it's old as shit. The elo on that acc has long been trashed with a shit winrate as of right now so it's impossible to tell.

>>26653693
I'm not saying it was a check. I'm saying it was a counter.

I get,
(48-57) + (32-38) = (80-95) before Rocks with 4 HP
(43-52) + (29-35) = (72-85) before Rocks with 248 HP

It's a roll with 4 HP and a guaranteed live with 248.

>>26651792
Kyurem really needs one physical move for every special move it has. Earthquake for Earth Power, Icicle Crash for Ice Beam, or the elemental punches. Hell, all three members of the Tao Trio need better movepools.

>>26653737
I just imagine you'd drain away a lot from Hydrei's SpA to be in range of knocking out Chansey, which is on par with your statement about Kyu-B compromising moveslots. And doubles work both ways.

>>26653770
It doesn't need to go to +2. Hitting things twice does the job just as well and you lose a mon or weaken your team.

And I'm not following on your discussion of Yveltal, since it's not like it can boost and it gets walled by fat Fairies. It's basically dealing with XY Greninja. You can even use Mandibuzz to hold it off.

Reshiram is more of a problem since it only gets held back by the likes of the Chansey family and Azumarill.

And see that's what we have anyway with Mega Sableye, so it's nothing unsuitable for OU is what I'm saying.

After I made Top 10 I used the account to run unorthodox teams on the high ladder because I like showing the viability of underseen mons. It's also why I like to think I have a good idea of how the meta functions/would function.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-364533254

>>26653965
Fuck that nigger and his stall team