>Clefable is STILL the king of OU

>>26550954
Good.

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>>26550954
>anons will still claim that fairy doesn't need a nerf

Bravest bird only at A? This is blasphemy!

>>26550954
Why is Shitcanion A? Shitcanion is C tier at best.

>>26551011
>implying it does need a nerf

>>26551033
>why does a pokemon with a better version of hydro pump that burns and a higher sp.atk stat than keldeo, a water immunity, a 4x resistance to fire, and decent coverage have an A ranking?

>>26550954
Thunder Wave is cancer.

How do we fix Fairy type, lads?

The obvious answer is giving it more weaknesses, but what?

I think Normal is fair.

>>26550954
Smogon's "viability rank" chart is the most retarded and senseless shit they have ever made beside the fanfic tiers, complex bans and lack of Item Clause.

Smogon's "viability rank" is:
>unreliable amd debatable
>strictly biased because of their staff circlejerk
>keeps changing deapire the meta and tiers remain costant
>it is only applied to their own meta which isn't perfect either
>it is only applied to 6v6 battle modes which explains clefable andnother defensive cores being so common as well as No Item clause mattering again
>same Pokemon that were S rank are now A range and even lower
>they always fall for the new toy bait like Mega Altaria and friends
>it doesn't directly influence or changes their meta in any way, no importance and effects in general compared to the tiering that has actual "real" usage statistics and meme bans that affect their meta

It's pretty much just something they have pulled to distribute and grab more forum badges for their own pride. Worthless feature because their dex and analysis already offer useful tools and tips for beginners and noobs that want to join their "competitive" scene and competitive battling in general although using their set and spreads only won't really bring you so far, you are required to do some logical plays and use personal set edits and fixing too.

>>26550954
>no one ever will use Serperior
>doesn't matter if it gets Contrary
>it's still shit
good old days of /vp/

>>26551159
Dont bew fucking stupid.

The viability rank is based on usage alone.

>>26551101
>>26551011

Fairy doesn't need a nerf you dumb fucks, Clefable is up there because of its bulk.

Fairy definitely should be weak to bug or something though for balance reasons

>>26551208
Clefable went from RU to top of OU solely because of Fairy typing, moron, it didn't gain more bulk in gen VI.

>>26551101
Grass getting a resistance or immunity to Fairy could help.

>>26551207
No it's not. I think you need to stop being stupid.

If it were based on usage those BL mons wouldn't be there.

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>>26551208
>Fairy doesn't need a nerf you dumb fucks, Clefable is up there because of its bulk.
Gen V meta. Clefable is Normal type and in RU
Gen VI meta: Clefable is Fairy type and in OU
Are you sure you don't want to change your affirmations?

>>26551159
>the meta and tiers remain constant
No
>it is only applied to their own meta which isn't perfect either
Well no shit the OU viability list is only meant for OU.

>>26551033
95 accuracy hydro pump with a 30% chance to burn.

>>26551159
someone's mad their shitmon got D-ranked

>>26551231
more like it went to OU because its stopped being a shitty normal type mon

>>26551231

It's more the fact than when it was Normal-type, there was simply no reason to use it over Chansey/Blissey, both of which did it job better

Now that it's a Fairy-type though, it has a niche

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>>26550954
Mfw I only have one pokemon from the list (A-) on my team and I still wreck everything. Not a single legendary.
Learn to play faggots.

>>26551101
>Add Psychic weakness
>Change the Bug resistance for a Ghost one
>Resisted by Ice
Psychic and Bug need an offensive buff, wile Ice needs a defensive one and Fairy needs a nerf in both, so now they all got better

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>>26550954
>my all time favorite Pokemon is top tier

Feels good man

>>26551231
This,

Fairy + Reliable Recovery + 2 Perfect Abilities + Offensive / Defensive / Pivot / Support versatility + perfect partner for defensive cores + extra 10 Sp.Atk in Gen 6

Fairy is very good in both offenaive and defensive spectres, I don't know what was their nerfing Fighting and Dragon amd eventually Knock Off users idea, making a new genuinely better type in everything only became their current susbstitute. Also Fairy type Pokemon often have similar stats distribution and roles as well as even better double type combinations.

I'm okay with Fairy type itself but I dislikethe unnecessary Bug type resistance and Moonblast being suddenly stronger than elemental beams, Psychic, Tri Attack and Dragon Pulse. Especially when elemental beams and Dragon Pulse lost 5BP, Dragon lost them for no reason and now has an odd 85BP, Moonblast instead has better offensive type, 95BP, useful side effect with 30% chance to decrease opponent's Sp.Atk and almost everytime receives STAB power.

I'm okay on how it did help Steel and Poison offensively and defensively, those are still uncommon as types amd existing Pokemon in general tho.

>>26551159
>smogon's viability ranks only apply to smogon's metas

no fucking shit, sherlock. That's like getting mad at Canada's Prime Minister for not having enough clout in Japan you stupid fuck.

>>26551326
Ice does not need a defensive buff.
Ice needs more offensive Pokemon like Weavile and Kyurem-B. It's a fragile, glass cannon type and one of the best offensive types in the game and every time someone suggests buffing it defensively I want to pull my hair out.

>>26551326
Psychic doesn't need any more buffs. It's dangerously close to being overpowered again as is.

Psychic + Fighting + Ghost/Dark is already hard to switch into, and having bulky Fairy types able to take such coverage on is great.

>>26551231
>>26551246

You guys are forgetting about it's movepool, which is the only real reason to use it over wigglytuff. Fairy type alone didn't send it up to OU because it isn't a broken type.

Iron head can literally one-shot Clefable every time, fairy type isn't that great.

>>26551033
rkt

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Reminder that Thunder Wave is what's currently keeping Clefable relevant. Fairy type was just a small bonus, but Clefable will work just as well with as any type mainly not named Normal, Grass, Ice, Rock, or Bug.

>>26551320
Clefable and Chansey/Blissey are built for completely different things. The problem was that Clefable had a shitty offensive typing that couldn't take advantage of its attacking stats. Giving it STAB fairy attacks pushed it over the edge.

>>26551272
The meta and the tiers remained the same, the only minor changes haven't affected the already top ranked mons in their past list yet Mega Altaria suddebly left the top rank, not like it ever deserved them but still shows how unreliable is their list. It's more based on their opinions rather than facts, funny enough there aren't real basis to accurately define and list a Pokemon rank either.

>>26551283
Not an argument, no thesis, no explanation. You are just projecting in order to make an obvious shitpost through hominem attacks.

>>26551410
>>26551410
>this pokemon is only good because of the features that make it good

thanks for your critical analysis, professor

>>26551011
It's not just the type, it's Clef's movepool, stats, and abilities.

>>26551159

>It is only applied to their own meta which isn't perfect either

Boy, I wonder why the OU viability rankings would only apply to OU?

I swear to god you retards never cease to amaze me

>>26551366
Ice is the only type to have only one resistance(itself), so he really needs a defensive buff(two more resistances would be fair), having new offensive mons wouldn't fix shit, but I agree that would be a nice addition.

>>26551362
Considering people think Smogon is official and reliable that was a good point to be reminded, which doesn't clash with the rest of the the points.

>>26551474
Smogon never claimed to be official. It's it's own meta. If you want official then there are Battle Spot and VGC ladders on showdown that you can shitpost about.

A Smogon thread that describes a Smogon metagame is not a criticism

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>>26551375
Ember can literally one-shot Scizor every time, Steel type isn't that great.

Close Combat can literally one-shot Chansey every time, Eviolite type isn't that great.

Icicle Crash can literally one-shot Landorus-Therian every time, Intimidate type isn't that great.

>>26551470
Ice has two resistances, Water and Ice. Ice does not need fixing, Blame Game Freak for making the majority of Ice types slow and "bulky" (what the fuck is Avalugg). More offensive Ice-types would most certainly fix the type.

>>26551495
>Ice has two resistances, Water and Ice.
senpai

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>>26551495
>ice resists water

>>26551159

Yeah, how dare the OU VR only apply to OU! The injustice!!!!

And also, of course things are gonna drop and rise when meta trends pick up(or the meta shifts towards a certain playstyle), people either start preparing more for certain things(or less) things will become more or less viable. I would assume that would be common sense. Altaria for example lost viability because teams were preparing for it more, with bulky steels becoming a lot more common, as well as mega venusaur/amoonguss around the time of its drop.

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>>26551515
>>26551520
I misread that as "Ice is only resisted by one type", FUCK
I even typed out that Ice resisted Water what the fuck is wrong with me.

>>26551531
>wasting your time explaining this to someone who couldn't take the 15 seconds of critical thinking to arrive at that conclusion

literally why

>>26551495
>what the fuck is Avalugg
Unfair bullshit in Inverse battles

>>26551457
t. smogon apologist and mod in charge of ranking

We have all visited the forums and know how those debates are done. Stop embaassing yourself.

Also a (biased) opinion based rank list related to an actual statistics and ban affected tiering system (therefor the meta deriving from said tier) doesn't help or justify its existence either.

There haven't been new bans or incredible changes since ORAS and late XY, Hooopa Unbound and Volcanion are the only relevant once so far in their meta. Except Hoopa Unbound being banned has restored the same meta as always while Volcanion hasn't really affected the meta either, just another offensive mon.
Yet the same S Rank mons from past tier seasons now have a difference that goes from 1 and even 2 rank leaps. Non sense that clearly shows the whimsical nature of this rank feature.

>>26551589
you are fucking retarded if you cannot fathom that people play the game differently from month to month

>>26551453
Then why was it RU last gen?

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>>26551589
>Volcanion hasn't really affected the meta either, just another offensive mon.

Wow, you really are clueless.

>>26551324
What's your ladder, tough guy? If you can't give an account name and replay you're full of shit, if you're below 1600 you're bad.

>>26551589
>Hoopa-U was banned, therefore the meta has to revert to whatever it was before Hoopa-U
>Volcanion is not relevant
>there is no reason for the meta change unless something is added or removed from it, even though pokemon being added and removed is how the meta changes

On a scale of "very" to "completely", how retarded are you, exactly?

>>26551589

I don't even know where to start with this autism

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>>26551645
He's someone who automatically thinks legendaries are always the strongest, don't bother feeding him.

>>26551666
>feeding
yeah, here's your (You).
Can't provide a replay so you just samefag.

>>26551531
>meta "shifts"
If a playstyle is actually solid it's viability and popularity would't change. Same for the individual Pokemon ranking, a so claimed to be S rank would't drop for a mere playstyle pandering change which isn't on the same level of importing a new whole Pokemon by official release, new event or unban from BL.
In fact there was no reason to put mons like Mega Altaria, Charizard X and friends in S in the past if they were able to be managed the same way they are still managed right now.

>>26551549
Very insightful post, really makes you think, huh? Ironic considering you are the one talking about critical thinking and doing he opposite.

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>>26551677
I don't know who you thought you were responding to. Maybe you misread my post.

>>26551081
I'd say it's a better version of Scald, really.

>>26551680
>Mega Altaria
>balanced stats
>capable of running a variety of sets
>by virtue of it being new, few teams know how to prepare for it
>no reason for it to be S-rank

stop posting desu

>>26551699
Its Hydro Pump + Scald mixed together

>>26551709
it has more accuracy than hydro pump tho

>>26551693
yeah, misread. Excuse me. brb while I kill myself

>>26551729
That's alright, I posted >>26551495. We're both retarded.

>>26550954
I'm just glad that no matter what happens, which new Pokémon appears or how the play styles change; Tyranitar is still up there.

>>26551636
Is barely present in the high ranked battles that still use the same teams as before. How's the ELO hell for you?

>>26551660
Hoopa didn't even have the time to affect the meta for long time considering its ban was quite fast.

>>26551663
Not an argument.
Worthless post, are you waiting for someone else to agree with and put likes to? Bad news those aren't the Smogon forums.

>>26551617
Usage stats (you are probably talking about UU and below mons becoming OU due to usage) won't really affect those resident and solid OU Pokemon that are already very high ranked and aren't subject of bans. How could an S rank be affected by them? If it really is then it's because it never deserved said rank to begin with, which leads again to the fact that viability rank lists aren't reliable.

>Unaware is literally capable of bringing the most shittiest of shitfucks out of RU because dragon dance is retarded

>>26551520
It should goddammit

>>26551703
All of its sets show significant problems in either coverage or EVs spread, Amoongus and other easily stop it after a simple scouting or was still slower han some scarfmons.

It is as much of a one trick pony as Serperior.

I'm sorry if you are a fan of Mega Altaria, is good but not S rank if theor ranks evenmatter at all.

>>26551748
>Is barely present in the high ranked battles that still use the same teams as before. How's the ELO hell for you?

You're bluffing and I don't know why I'm replying to you, maybe for others reading this. The Specs set is common to see on the high ladder, and players have already topped with it on their team. Gastrodon, Chansey, and Latias have been seeing more usage with Rotom-W and Slowbro beginning to run more SpDef to be able to take it on.

>fairy type is op in a metagame where offensive steel types are extremely prevalent and people still disregard poison types

ou is so fucking trash lmao

>>26551802
Ferrothorn occasionally using gyroball and Bisharp using something other than knock off doesn't count as offensive steel types.

Mega-Steelix could have been the hero we need if it had gotten Magnet Pull. Jesus.

>>26551813
but muh iron head excadrill and muh mega memegross

>>26551802
What Poison types are there to use? Tenta, Venu, Gengar, Amoong... Gar gets cripped by twave, tenta cant touch clef without acid spray, and amoong and venu are the only reliable poison type clef checks, both get shredded by garde


Amoong and Venu are still pretty common since they still counter clef, but they don't counter fairies as a whole.

>>26551852
Venusaur is a fullstop to Azumarill at least

>>26551860
>Azumarill used Bounce!

>tfw you liked clefable before it was good

>>26551425

You could literally say this about any tier list in any game you gigantic retard. Yes, it's a consensus of opinions. You can't objectively measure a mon's viability, only argue it based on analysis and usage. It has value in giving a fairly accurate notion of which mons accel in the meta and how. Same as their dex, in fact supplementary to it.

>>26551159
>unreliable and debatable
Yes, no shit it's debatable, but the onus is on you to debate it with either rationale or results. It is reliable when these mons consistently perform well.

>it is only applied to their own meta/6v6
Wow, you're telling me this smogon viability analysis pertains to the smogon metagame? Stop the fucking presses.

>meta and tiers remain constant/pokemon ranks change
Metas are not static, even in otherwise static games. If you think this isn't the case then you don't play enough games. New strategies develop, especially when they actually add new options like event mons.

>>26551895
Who the fuck uses Bounce?

>>26551977
your mom on my dick

>>26551977
It's a joke.

>>26551635
It actually got a sp attack buff from last gen, from 85 to 95, then add on Fairy typing, good fairy moves, ability that abuses life orb, etc, etc.

Don't get me wrong, fairy typing definitely helped, but it's not the only reason that it's strong.

>>26552004
it's had magic guard since gen 4 imo

>>26550954
I'm happy to see one of my favorites on the top.

>>26551680

If managing one mon cripples your team against a variety of other mons, then it's not very cost effective management. It takes time to discover and develop these strategies in practical ways. But that's not the point.

A mon's rank just represents the current consensus in the community as to its viability, which is subject to change based on their aptitude at using and dealing with it. You can claim this has no value but it obviously does at creating a visual framework for the state of the meta, and encouraging meta discussion and development. You're the one choosing to look at it superficially rather than a result and catalyst of discussion.

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>>26550954
>All those megas

Proof that they're power creeped cancer.

>>26552074

There are more megas than non-megas. All it proves is those mons wouldn't compete at those ranks without their megas, but with them they add diversity to the top tier.

>>26551792
They are common mons in OU and devoted stall and balanced teams always relied on them, such shock wow, clearly Volcanion's behind it.

>>26551925
You are talking about OU and not any tier below that is actually influenced more since it gets costant swingings from higher and lower tiers respectively. A top ranked OU will hardly be affected by some UU and below becoming OU for a while (unless a devoted nichemon that would be used regardless of its tier).

It affects their metas yet people costantly take these ranking to prove a Pokemon is always good in general regardless. What's your point?

The OU meta is definitely static and has been like that for months.

And something like an S rank by their own made definition cannot swing so hard because of "new" strategy when those already existing options would have prevented it to be said rank to begin with.

>>26551925
>viability can't be objectively measured
>defends this rank system by listing its biggest flaws
Hmm...

>>26552070
>implying state of the meta cannot be seen from the tier usage itself
Must be really hard for some people to deduct the current status of the meta without using a lunatic chart that changes at least twice faster than the tier season itself.

>>26552506
Are you being intentionally dense? I said their usage went up, not that it's the first time they're showing up.

Besides, Latios overshadowed Latias until Volcanion showed up. Chansey was hardly seen outside of stall/semi-stall. Gastrodon was incredibly rare.

Chansey's the only realistic counter it has.

>>26551246
it's not just fairy typing, it's the increased prevalance of dark-type moves (mostly knock off) and a decent STAB attacking move that made it good. Fairy was an integral part of it but it doesn't mean the type is OP.

>>26552694
Usage went up, cannot prove it is strictly related to Volcanion and not because of the last trendy RMT instead. Chansey, Latias and both phys and spec def Rotom-W are still used as before. Didn't influence the S or A+ tiers either.

>tfw fairy will be nerfed soon
Thank god.

>>26551246
It would have been mid OU if it was Fairy and nothing else would have changed like intro of megas, Knock Off, Dark / Ghost buff. I mean, dud weather wars, lmao! Gen 6 is more of a boosting and stalling: the experience.
Trace Gardevoir and Togekiss would be there showing competition against Dragons too.

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>>26550954
WHY THE FUCK HASN'T SERPERIOR DROPPED YET!?!?!?!?!?! VP SAID IT WAS SHIT

ITS NOT FAIR WHY ISNT MY BRO SWAMPERT OU

>>26552891
>Listening to /vp/ on competitive
Your own fault. The only competitive players on /vp/ are either legitimately shit (i.e. Randbats, AG, or under 1200 rating on a real ladder) or they battle "ironically" (i.e. showderp)

>it's an anon is STILL mad about fairies episode

>>26553920
That's not true. There are good players on /vp/, but anti-smogonfags are so rampant that a good portion of them, /cpg/, secluded themselves to Pokemon Showdown where they became a circlejerk. Every time someone made a thread here for it, it quickly found its way to Page 10, so people rarely try anymore.

I'm not part of /cpg/ and there are still competitive players who lurk the board, but we kinda get the same treatment as they did. Whenever there's a replay thread and someone complains why there're no high-level games, I point out one of my replays and the thread dies down pretty fast, like when someone provides sauce in a nsfw thread. But then the process repeats itself.

>>26553920
But anon. Serperior IS shit.

>>26554386
desu your only hope of serperior dropping at this point is if unaware clefable and sap sipper goodra become improbably popular

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>>26552891
>mfw all those weather based shitmons you like would have been good during weather wars, but never, ever again

>>26554266
>tfw no /cpg/
>tfw stuck at 1400 rating and can't expect to get any help from here because i'm already better than most of the players, or better than all the loud ones here, at least

>>26554444
Nice 4 4's.

And if you want help, you could always just go on Pokemon Showdown and watch battles, since they tell you the Elo of the lower of the two players in a battle now. There are some chats for tutoring, but I think that's unnecessary. Watching in real-time and watching good Youtubers is how I got gud. I wouldn't recommend monitoring the OU chats since it's mainly bottom feeders talking about non-issues, unless there's a good player on that happens to be sharing serious insight.

>>26554443
At leasr Swampert isnt a shitmon. Although infinite rain would be nice for it.