If you domesticate a fox does that mean it's a dog?

When did this Zodiac meme start? It doesn't make any sense because the 2nd generation didn't follow the "pattern" meaning there was no pattern in the first place.

>>26283530
No, it is a domesticated fox.

>>26283568
It seems to be a general "place to start" for GF when designing the Fire starters. Doesn't mean that they all follow the pattern, but 5/7 fit in it pretty well

A lot of fire types are fitting the zodiac, not just starters.
Ponyta
Growlithe

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>>26283572
>you'll never own a domesticated silver fox because they're like $10,000

I would kill to have one of these adorable fuckers as a pet

>>26283600
Magcargo, Torkoal, Magmar, Heatmor

Zodiac!

>>26283618
Aren't they bred at some research facility in Russia?

>>26283627
Well, people keep throwing Fennikin and Charmander in it, so why the fuck not?

>implying that there's a partten
>charizard counts as a chinese dragon
>using a edited image of a dragon and not the original
>cyndaquil is now somehow a rat
>fox=dog

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>>26283530
Why did you change the dragon picture ?

>>26283635
Yup, they were developed as part of a domestication experiment I think.

>>26283635
Yeah and they're not inside pets. They piss everywhere.

Also, OP, please take a basic biology course. They're totally different species.

>>26283627
Slugma slithers like a snake
Magby looks bull headed
Heatmor is actually covered with wool

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>>26283530
Look at Fennekin! You call him a dog, but everyone can clearly see that that thing's a fox!!

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>>26283530
>using the wrong one

>>26283715
Well, Growlithe has tiger stripes.

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I still don't understand some people's reasoning for charamander not being in the zodiac, I mean uhis final stage is a dragon so does that not make it a baby dragon.

>>26283686
I remember reading about it in Nat Geo a few years ago

they also bred super-aggressive foxes that went so far as to bite their offspring

>>26283731
It's only a dragon in the sense that one of it's megas is a dragon.
It's just a winged lizard.
Like a Pteranodon.

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>>26283731
This is what a Chinese dragon looks like

Gyarados is a Chinese dragon charizard isn't
Also foxes aren't dogs

>>26283530
Depends on how you define "dog." Most people don't use dog as a generic term for all canines, the same way we use cat as a generic for all felines.

I hear people refer to lions, tigers, and leopards as "cats." I don't often hear people call foxes, wolves, and coyotes "dogs."

>>26283770
Gyarados isn't a fire starter

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>>26283568

>>26283770
龍 refers to both kinds of dragon.

>>26283530
No its a Dox

>>26283731
the anti-charizard fags are the only ones that say charizard is not a dragon.

>>26283775
Well foxes and dogs are in the same genius so that's something
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canidae

>>26283926
No shit


>>
>>26284034
>Current form developed in large seal script, with serpent’s body on right (tail at upper right, legs on right), whiskered/fanged mouth at lower left, and eyes/crown at upper left.
Yeah that sure looks like a western dragon description

http://www.icr.org/article/how-did-wolves-become-dogs/
http://10e.devbio.com/article.php?id=223

>>26284181
Yeah so what


That doesn't make them the same animal

>>26283530
wtf is that dragon picture

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>tfw zodiac master race

>because honey badgers are totally rats

>>26284182
>All chinese characters are always pictographs
>月 radical is totes a mouth
>立 radical is both eyes and crown

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>>26284182
Doesn't matter were just going to count it anyway. The only way is zodiac fags will give up is if a fire starter is completely different from anything on the zodiac, it could be a goat and we would put it under sheep, it could a mule and we would put it under horse, fuck it could even be moose and we'd put it under Cow, as long as there are enough similarities it's going to count for us, so unless the gen 8 starter is a jellyfish or something like that this will never stop

>>26283530
>LOOK MOM I MADE THE THREAD AGAIN HEHE
>that's wonderful dear but could you please use your inside voice?

>>26283530
If this is true then Pokemon will only have five more gens, how does that make you feel?

>>26283530
"taming" and "domesticating" are very different things

>>26284405
Relieved

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>>26284405
>Only 5 more gens of this hell
I fucking wish

>>26284503
The best part is we're still six months out. This is only the beginning.

>>26284405
the only reason people think this is because they made some fire fighting starters based on jttw. none of the other starters fit unless these retards make a huge leap in logic and if they hadn't made a tribute to the origin of dragon ball z, these autists wouldn't be posting.

Part of the Zodiac is that cat's can literally never be a part of it, and the Gen 7 starter is a cat.

That alone is the nail in the coffin. Doesn't matter what it evolves into.

On TOP of that, Fennekin is not a dog, or even part of the canine family (do some research on foxes you fuckers)

And Cyndaquil is not a rat. The PokéDex lists it as a mouse, which I think is a stretch in of itself. But definitely a completely different type of rodent.

And lastly, Charmander is a lizard, not a dragon. Charizard is also not a dragon. Only 1/2 of it's mega forms even scratch the dragon typing.

Anybody who is unironically still pushing this Zodiac meme is retarded.

TL;DR - Fuck you, read the post. If you're autistic enough to believe this shit, then you can handle 5 sentances.

>>26284913
>On TOP of that, Fennekin is not a dog, or even part of the canine family
Animalia Chordata Mammalia Carnivora Canidae Vulpes
It's literally the same family.
It's a different genus though, that's the important bit

>>26284982
Ok, roger that, point still stands though

>>26285000
Oh yeah, you're totally right other than that.
And there's 6 sentences before TL;DR but yeah.

>>26284913
>Charizard is also not a dragon. Only 1/2 of it's mega forms even scratch the dragon typing.
I hate the Zodiac thing ever since people started trying to stretch Delphox to fit the dog, but that's an even bigger hoop of logic you're trying to jump through to call Charizard not a dragon.

Even ignoring the fact that it's in the dragon egg group and clearly meant to be designed as a dragon (what the fuck kind of lizard have you seen that actually looks like Charizard?), "half its mega forms barely scratching the dragon typing" isn't a very good description of the situation of "Literally has a mega that 100% has a dragon typing"

>>26285053
And one that doesn't have a Dragon typing, and its regular form is not Dragon either.

Pretty compelling evidence to say Charizard shouldnt count as a dragon if you ask me.

>>26283731
>I still don't understand some people's reasoning for charamander not being in the zodiac, I mean uhis final stage is a dragon so does that not make it a baby dragon.

And Cyndaquil's final evo is a badger, so Cyndaquil is a baby badger, not a mouse.

You can either have Cyndaquil or Charmander in the zodiac, not both, since their inclusion contradicts each other in every way.

>>26283726
Squirtle has a squirrel tail

>>26285088
THIS

SOMEONE WHO UNDERSTANDS

You can clutch straws all you like, but you literally cant defend both Cyndaquil and Charizard being there because the excuses contradict.

>>26283731
Wait, so you use some with the final evolution and others without it? If you're going to do this at least keep it consistent. Fennekin stops being a "dog" at the end.

Just because you can stretch them to fit an arbitrary pattern doesn't mean that's what Gamefreak bases them off.

>>26284343
>it could be a goat and we would put it under sheep
You're a fucking moron. The tiniest bit of reassure would tell you that goat is an equally valid translation of 羊.

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>>26284913
So if the cat turns into a tiger would it not count? This is Pokemon for gods sake a clam turns into a fucking eel fish thing! All this extremely literal stuff doesn't mean anything. If a echidna and badger represent the rat, and a western dragon represents an eastern dragon what's it's matter? The similarities are still there, for both the animals and the chart.

>>26283530
Squirtle counts as a rat because it sounds like squirrel and squirrels are rodents like rats.

Totodile counts as a dragon because crocodiles are some of the oldest reptiles in the world.

Mudkip counts as a snake because there are sea snakes and Mudkip is partially based on an axolotl which also live in water.

Piplup counts as a rooster because penguins are birds like roosters.

Oshawott counts as a rabbit because it's small and fluffy.

Froakie counts as a rabbit because frogs and rabbits are well known for hopping.

Popplio counts as a tiger because sea lions are like lions which are like tigers.

See? I can do it too.

>>26285368
*Oshawatt counts a sheep I meant

>>26284181
>Well foxes and dogs are in the same genius
What the fuck are you saying?
Assuming you meant "genus" and not "genius", you are fucking retarded because Dogs are in the genus Canis while the Red Fox is in the genus Vulpes.
They're in the same family. So are apes and humans. Infernape is a human confirmed? Sheep and Oxen are also in the same family, and I don't know how zodiacfags will squirm around that when we get a gazelle.

>>26285148
Eh I got this pic off the google images I would have added delphox but I'm on my phone so I cant

GF can use the zodiac as inspiration without literally following every particular bit.

>>26285487
Yeah, it's called "not using the zodiac as inspiration"

>>26285451
At least click on the wiki entry before blurting that so you'll know if your talking bull shit or not

>>26285148
That image was around before Delphox was revealed.

>>26285487
So it doesn't use the zodiac?

>>26285451
>Infernape is a human confirmed?
I know this was supposed to be rhetorical, but Infernape is literally in the human-like egg group.

If the Zodiac had a human there instead of a monkey, it wouldn't be that far of a stretch to put Infernape in that slot.

>>26285539
It's got litten in it so...

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>>26285526

>>26285556
>implying niggers are human
Zodiacfags have hit a new level of stupidity.

>>26285451
I'm on my phone I got auto correct

>>26283731
>his final stage is a dragon so does that not make it a baby dragon.
No it doesnt, because Charmander is a Salamander. And I dont mean the reptile either, I mean the monster.

>>26285559
Oh, well I guess whoever made that one just copypasted it on the original photo without thinking.

>>26285559
>what is mspaint

>>26285495
>>26285549
>/vp/ doesn't know what the word "inspiration" means

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>>26285572
All you had to do was click on it

>>26285706
>family, species, and genus are the same thing
>Im retarded as fuck
pick both

>>26285706
Stop being retarded.

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>>26285088
the actual contradiction here is that its the RAT zodiac sign, not the Mouse. They're similar species but ultimately different. Just like Fennikin's line (Fox =/= Dog) and Charmander/Charmeleon (Lizard =/= Dragon). Close but no cigar.

I say, there's no pattern until Gamefreak says there's one. Or, if Gen 8's fire starter heavily resembles one of the "unused" zodiac signs.

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>>26285706

>>26285787
You idiots that can't be bother to do the slightest bit of research are annoying as hell.
Chinese and Japanese make no distinction between Rats and mice.
More importantly the word use in the Japanese Pokédex entry is the same on use in the Japanese translation of the Chinese Zodiac, ねずみ.

>>26285814
I gotta be honest I don't know if your saying that I'm try to bait you or you baited me but ether way you clearly have no idea what the joke is in this meme and are just some memespouting faggot

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>Pokemon
>100% accurate
Pick one

How will they do another fire horse?

>>26287139
How will they do another water frog

>>26287166

>toads are frogs

baka

>>26287139
How will they do another fire cat?
How will they do another water sea lion?

Species anon. There's more than one type of horse out there.

>>26283530
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canidae
They kinda are dogs even if you dont.

>>26287278
ZEBRAS AREN'T HORSES!

>>26287262
All horses look the same though

Zebra and pony are not horses

>>26287304

Horses and related animals

Zebra are Equidae, horses are Equidae

But zebra are not horses.

Like all squares are rectangles but not all rectangles are squares

>>26287315

People say koala bear but they know damn well they're not bears.

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>>26287302
>All horses look the same though
But that's wrong

>>26287312
The Chinese and Japanese name for zebra is literally "stripe horse" using the same character as the Zodiac.

>>26287324
Or they could just keep it a zebra and it would still relate to the zodiac idea because no one ever claimed the species had to match exactly. Only that there's influence.

Honestly, the deniers seem more autistic for thinking it all has to be an exact match.

>they could use a zebra instead so you'd have rapidash with stripes

Sounds great guys.

>>26283599
Only 2/7 fit if you're consistent, actually, and don't flip between justifications while ignoring the exact same thing when it goes against you

>>26283530
if you catch a bird, does that mean it's a chicken?

>>26283661
Some people consider the fact that Cyndaquil is a nezumi and that Fennekin is a canine to be close enough to represent the rat and the dog, respectively. Some people would need them to be exactly a rat and exactly a dog, so they don't believe the zodiac pattern. Both sides understand the arguments, so repeating that Cyndaquil is based on a porcupine and Fennekin a fox won't really convince anybody of anything either way.

The same goes for Charmander being a dragon. The fact it's not a Chinese dragon doesn't mean anything to some people, but it does to others. There are also people who don't think it's a dragon at all. Since dragons aren't real, the interpretation here seems a little more open.

There's no point arguing either side. Everyone's made their decisions based on the same evidence. Both sides should just accept that already.

>>26287535
Pretty much this.
Some people think it needs to be exact representations to work as a theory (because why wouldn't they just make a rat and a dog?)
Some people think it's just inspired by the Zodiac. (Cindaquil and Earhair stand out because Gamefreak wanted to be creative with the ideas, adjusting them to fit the theme of the game more.)

there is no pattern, people just see whatever they want to see. like finding illuminati symbols on media.

>>26285071
I cannot believe these people are so desperate to disprove the zodiac theory that they would resort to deny Charizard is clearly based on a dragon.

>>26289026
I don't believe that people are so desperate to prove the zodiac theory that they call a fox a dog


Even when they have nothing in common

>>26283530

>zodiacfags still at it

cmon people.

at this point, its even more likely that they've caught on the whole zodiacfaggotry and are intentionally just now making fire starters based on things that will make this shit go on longer without confirming ot deconfirming either side, than that they actually ever gave 2 shits about the chinese zodiac in the fire starter decision process.

>>26290822
>inb4 next fire starter is a water buffalo
Yeah nintendo has been more connected with its community lately so I wouldn't be surprised if there's someone in there trolling us

>>26289026
A western dragon not an eastern one you know like the chinese dragon in the chinese zodiac

>>26283726
Totodile dragon typing when?

>>26284305
Wolverine. Honey badgers are meme animals and what Linoone is based on. Typhlosion is clearly a wolverine. Typhlosion's snout isn't long enough. Both are Mustelidae, though.

>>26287139
Make it a Pegasus.

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>>26287535
Fennekin isn't a canine, it's based off of a fennec fox, which is of the vulpes genus.

>>26283530

According to zodiac memers, they're basically the same thing

>>26283661
>>26287535
Cyndaquil is literally a shrew
And since mice and rats are pretty close...

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>>26291283
It's a canidea which means it's in the same family as the domestic dog

>>26284181
>foxes and dogs are canidae
Litten is a cat, cats and oxen are both chordata, therefore Litten is OBJECTIVELY an ox.

If a dog becomes feral does that make ita fox?
>>26283690
The point is that Fennekin is clearly a fox, not a dog.

>>26291384
Being in the same family doesn't make them the same thing


Just like you and your brother are a family but unlike you he doesn't make your parents cry with shame at night

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Foxes belong to the vulpes genus.

The vulpes genus (commonly known as vulpines) is a totally different subfamily than the canis genus (commonly known as canines). Therefore, vulpines are not canines.

Vulpines are far-off cousins to canines through a much larger family known as canids or canidae, which also consists of coyotes, jackals and tanukis.

Of all canids, vulpines and canines are the most distantly related. Just to drive this point home, vulpines are more closely related to tanukis than canines.

The branch split that would eventually lead to vulpines and canines occurred more than 30 million years ago. Just take a second to digest that - canines and vulpines have been biologically distinct for MILLIONS of years.

Ergo, scientifically, foxes and dogs are heavily distinguished. Culturally in Japan and in every other relevant part of the world, foxes and dogs are also heavily distinguished.

Pass it on. Tell your friends.

>>26291471
Chordata is a fucking phylum, smartass. His point was that foxes and dogs are very closely related, in the same family. Foxes are very close to dogs and wolves, they're all canines. Every fucking pokemon on the zodiac thing would be considered a chordate you dense fuck

Phylum and family are two drastically separated concepts when it comes down to how closely things are related

>>26291483
FUCK YOU

>>26291550
Nitpick: Foxes are canids, but not canines, canine specifically refers to members of the genus canis, whereas canid refers to members of the family canidae.

>>26283568
Pretty sure it started in gen4, maybe early gen5

>>26291550
>3rd degree separation


>"""""""Closely related""""""""

>Being in this much denial

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>>26284305
>Cyndaquil is a honey badger

Eric
Simply eric

>>26291575
lol my bad, that's what I meant

Thanks dude

>>26291550
>His point was that foxes and dogs are very closely related
>Foxes are very close to dogs and wolves

If you knew anything about canids at all, you'd know that the relation between foxes and dogs is actually pretty fucking distant.

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>>26291633
I don't even subscribe to the stupid zodiac thing, that post was just kinda idiotic. And yes, foxes and dogs are closely related animals, CERTAINLY closer than cats and oxen

but surely nobody's retarded enough to need that explained to them, right?

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>>26291648
>implying Typhlosion isn't

>>26291711
Yeah foxes and dogs are closer than humans and whales but that doesnt make them the same thing
And yeah that needs to be explained since half of this thread thinks that foxes and dogs are considered the same thing

>denialfags used to sput that the next starter will disprove the zodiac theory
>it doesnt
>still in denial

When the next starters continue to prove the theory RIGHT what will you do?

>>26291711
>CERTAINLY closer than cats and oxen

Dumbest analogy I've heard all day.

No, they're obviously not as distant as humans and, say, cats. They're still the furthest apart within their own "millions of years long" family tree though.

It's like comparing a porcupine with a squirrel.

>>26291813
>animal that is specifically NOT part of the zodiac proves the zodiac theory

>>26291813
>has to literally change for complete what animal the Mon is so it fits your autistic theory

>hurr durr they are the ones in denial

>>26291813
>it doesnt

It does so far, but that's irrelevant either way because it doesn't NEED to. Cyndaquil already disproved it until you mouthbreathers starting yapping about its Pokedex entry, and then years later Gen 6 comes along and THOROUGHLY demolishes your argument with Fennekin.


So no, your """""theory""""" was disproven some time ago.

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>>26291679
Why do denialfags keep bringing up the fox=dog thing, it's not even that far of a stretch. The only one you kinda got is the rat

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Have you retards ever thought that maybe, just maybe, Gamefreak is choosing random animals for fire starters? That they aren't going by some zodiac wheel, and there's no big plan? That maybe this is all one big awkward coincidence?

Zodiacfags are the fucking worst.

>>26291879
>it's not even that far of a stretch

It objectively, biologically IS that far of a stretch.

>>26291879
>not that far of stretch


That's actually what they believe

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>>26291865
You just keep being wrong and we'll keep on being right okay

>>26291939
Holy shit you are delusional

>>26291813
>When the next starters continue to prove the theory RIGHT what will you do?

I'll tell you what: if Litten evolves into a tiger AND the next fire starter matches a zodiac animal exactly, then I'll finally admit you faggots are right. If Litten turns into any other kind of cat and the next fire starter is only in the same family as a zodiac animal then I'm still going to insist you're grasping at straws due to autism.

>>26291894
>That maybe this is all one big awkward coincidence?

And even then, at best it's just a coincidence of animals that are RELATED to the zodiac animals but aren't even the same species, like Fennekin and Cyndaquil.

They just don't know when to let go. I remember also ridiculing their "Grass starters = reptiles" theory back in the early days of /vp/ and they still tightly held on to it as if it was never going to be disproven at any point.

>>26291964
He is right tho.

>>26291970
>Litten evolves into any other large cat species that isn't a tiger

>B-BIG CATS ARE LIKE TIGERS ZODIAC WINS AGAIN

>>26291980
Hhahahahhahahah


>thinks that foxes and dogs are the same thing
>right

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>>26291964
Denialfags are gold

>>26291972
The fact that the zodiac has an animal that you can stretch to fit any other land animal(see fox=dog) and the fact that gf is very unlikely to make a fish fire starter just make those autist think that they are somehow right

>>26283726
Undarated post

>>26292007
>doesnt have the balls to assume that your autistic theory was wrong so stretch the facts at a laughable point
>"you guys are the one in denial"

>>26291970
Okay and if he doesn't turn into a tiger and the next starter is just like you said and not remotely close to the zodiac (luckily the only animals left are pretty straightforward)
I'll admit zodiacfags are wrong. Ill even join you in calling them autistic.

Do you guys realize this is just a theory, not a fact. If you believe in it, fine. If you don't that's fine too but don't ruin everybody else's fun.

>>26291988
>implying that's not the case

>>26292149
Ok big boi tell me 5 land animals that you faggots can't stretch to fit your autistic theory

>>26283568
I can remember it since generation 4

>>26292199
Tell me one place where the dogs=foxes would be taken for a fact outside the autistis who believe this theory

>>26291520
>Culturally in Japan and in every other relevant part of the world, foxes and dogs are also heavily distinguished
This is probably the most damning. You can play off "mouse pokemon" as "rat" because of China and Japan not being able to tell the difference, apparently (which again, bring us back to this: >>26285088).

But Foxes and Dogs have very different symbology and cultural connotations. They've never been used as replacements for one another. They're distinct species not only biologically, but in the cultural mind of everyone in the world.

>>26292207
Are you stupid?

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I want one.

>>26292394
No,but if you think that zodiac theory is true I can say for sure that you're autistic

FOXES ARE NOT DOGS

>>26292394
How am I stupid ?

You faggots consider that foxes should count has dogs


With that big fucking stretch you can make any land animal fill that theory

>>26292410
It looks more like a dquirre than a dog

>>26291364

Shrews aren't even rodents you idiot.

>>26291972
There are many animals that can be said as inspiration for the Cyndaquil line and none of them are even close to rats, let alone rodents.

It's not a big coincidence fire starters are related to animals on the Zodiac, because the Cyndaquil line literally isn't. The closest any of the animals of the Cyndaquil line has in relation to a Zodiac animal are Honey Badgers to dogs, and that's a pretty fucking distant relation at that.

>>26290998
hopefully with the gatr mega, waterbros need their 'reptile starter with dragon type tacked on mega' still

>>26292699
>a mouse isn't close to a rat
Are you stupid?

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Year of the Horse cock coming through.

>>26292474
No? With that big a stretch you could make any canide fit that theory.

>>26292474
Theyre both canides, dont see how "big" a stretch that is

>>26292523
The japanese don't use taxonomically differentiated common names, "nezumi" refers to rats, mice, shrews, hamsters, even guineapigs. Its etymology derives from "Hidden Place" refering to the fact that they live in burrows and inside walls and such. It's literally any/every small fuzzy vermin.

>>26292738
>implying that it isn't a laughably big stretch so it fits your autistic theory


>>26292771
That's because you're either stupid or don't know shit about basic biology

Anyway


It's around a 30 million years stretch

I know you dumb so ill make it simple:it's a big fucking stretch

>>26283530
>DelphOX

>>26285362

>whole point is based on cultural similarities
>disregards a quintessential aspect

How can can zoadiac fans be so desperate?

>鼠
here's the kanji for Nezumi, go ahead and see what google or yahoo image search comes up with

>狗
>犬
alternatively here are the two different kanji used for Inu

>itt people saying a fox is a dog

literally the most retarded thing I've read ever.

>>26292809
>implying that it isn't a laughably big stretch
Certainly not to the degree of "any land animal" at least.

Why are you so autistic that ypu have to assume it needs to be an exact match and not just a loose influence?

>>26292837
Take note of how the nezumi search is full of things other than mice and rats.
Take note of how inu produces not a single image of foxes.

>>26292860
>a loose influence

the zodiac doesn't say "maybe a dog" it says "dog"

if they wanted fennekin to be a dog they would have made it a dog

>>26292860
You understand literally nothing about taxonomy or basic linguistics do you? Has your middle school English and Science curiculum not covered that yet?

>>26292884
What do you think "loose influence" means?

>>26292884
>>26292898
Rekt

>>26292890
Educate me motherfucker

>>26292860
Are you that dumb ?
Can't you interpret what you read or what
By "any land animal will fill the autistic theory "he meant that with that big fucking stretch that makes a fox counts as a dog you can make any other land animal go into the fucking zodiac

Aka you would say that a horse is a ox

>>26292898
>L-LEAVE MUH HEADCANON ALONE!
That's what it means, apparently.

>>26292898
in this case, it means "I'll make anything fit my headcannon because I think a fox is a dog"

>>26292947
Horses and oxes arent in the same family.
Horses and oxes do not look alike.

>>26292947
But his point is that a fox and a dog are much much much closer than an ox and a horse. Stop being a retard

>>26292898
>What do you think "loose influence" means?

It means "I've been so thoroughly disproven and BTFO by both logic and common sense that I have to say it's """"""loosely""""" based to even make a slight modicum of an argument and I enjoy grasping at straws to validate my youtube-tier theories".

>>26292977
If someone said that gorillas are humans everyone would call him a retard.

Saying a fox is like a dog is the same thing.

That's why you are a retard.

>>26292724
Hi. None of those Pokémon exhibit any traits of a mouse, I assume you're referring to Cyndaquil's Pokédex specie being 'Fire Mouse' as your reasoning for it being a Mouse, I mean, this is the same Pokédex that claims Blastoise is a clam or a Lobster, but I'm sure that's a legitimate source for the real world inspiration of Cyndaquils design.

Please remove Charizard from dragon for that claim to be valid. Charizard's specie in the Pokédex is 'Flame', since according to your wonderful logic, Pokédex specie > appearance when it comes to determining the real world inspiration of a Pokémon.

I will admit Cyndaquil is a mouse when you admit Charizard is not a dragon at all but merely a piece of errant fire and thus not applicable for the Zodiac.

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>>26292151
>Do you guys realize this is just a theory, not a fact.
A GAAAAAME THEORY! SANS IS NESS!

>>26292151
I'll stop when they stop ruining my fun by shitting my board with this idiotic fox = dog posting

>>26292990
What the hell are you even talking about?
The theory is that the fire starters are based on the Chinese Zodiac. Most of the pokemon match exactly, and those that don't at least look like and are based on animals in the same family. I don't get why having to be the exact animals is such a big deal for you guys.

>>26293019
Yeah. Poor Darwin.

>>26292910
The purpose of unique words is to highlight distinction between concepts by relevent differences. A fox is called a "fox" and not a "dog" because it isn't a dog. Taxonomy classifies foxes as different from dogs because they aren't dogs. You're too stupid to understand not only why the specific terms/labels being used are relevent, but you fail to understand the entire core principle of the systems in place leading to the specific terminology.

>>26292151
it is just a theory, a theory that is provably wrong

>>26293087
>Most of the pokemon match exactly, and those that don't at least look like and are based on animals in the same family

Cyndaquil's line is based on the Mustelidae family, more commonly known as mustelids. These are a totally different family than rodents.

Foxes and dogs are in the same family, but that family is so genetically varied and they're so far apart in that family that they're extremely distinct as a species. Fucking TANUKIS are closer to foxes than dogs, or are you implying you would've called a Tanuki Pokemon as being representative of the dog if it was created in Fennekin's place?

The problem with Zodiacfags is that they start at a conclusion and work backwards.

>>26283530
STOP TRYING TO APPLY REAL WORLD LOGIC TO A GAME THAT FEATURES A HAUNTED LAWN MOWER

>>26293041
I love how easy it is to spot the people who shitpost on /v/

>>26293224
>The problem with Zodiacfags is that they start at a conclusion and work backwards.
Some people call that a hypothesis.
I'll stop considering it when they stop giving me animals based on it.

>>26293229
>Chinese Zodiac
>Real world logic
It's just a fun theory anon.

>>26293260
>I'll stop considering it when they stop giving me animals based on it.

They already did and I just explained why.

>>26283726
>trying this hard to deny

>>26293087
>Most of the pokemon match exactly
Three. Three out of currently seven match exactly: Torchic, Chimchar, and Tepig. Charmander's line is heavily associated with dragons, but only because of Charizard. If the final one was just a bigger Charmeleon, they'd all be salamanders. Cyndaquil "counts" as a rat because it's the "mouse" pokemon but its evolutions are not even remotely mouse-like. Fennekin is not a dog, nor are foxes and dogs commonly conflated in any field, either biologically or culturally. At this point, Litten is just a fire cat. Even if it continues to just be a cat, Zodiac fans will assume it's a tiger, despite the cat explicitly being removed from the zodiac.

The problem people have is Zodiac believers like to believe it's a sure thing, despite the amount of qualifiers it needs to have. Burden of proof rests on people making a claim, and right now the claim has different rules for different examples. Charmander counts because of its final evolution, but Cyndaquil counts only because of its base form. Torchic, Chimchar, and Tepid all fit exactly and do through out the entire line, but Fennekin has to pretend its another species and Charmander and Cyndaquil only count for some of the evolutions.

And for what? What does the zodiac serve? It's just another bullshat pattern to make someone feel "right" when a new example comes out that they can pretend they predicted. And because of this, they finagle any example into fitting it, despite needing to apply different standards to each, the hallmark of a shitty theory.

And because of how starters are chosen, the only thing that will stop the bullshitting is getting a proper dragon, dog, or rat starter line. Because there's literally no way to bullshit TWO of a zodiac into the "theory."

>>26285144
Cyndaquil is a Fire Mouse. There is no debate unless you want to debate with Game Freak

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>>26293224
>Fucking TANUKIS are closer to foxes than dogs, or are you implying you would've called a Tanuki Pokemon as being representative of the dog if it was created in Fennekin's place?

Holy shit, this.

Answer his question, zodiacfags: if gen 6 had a fire tanuki starter instead of a fox one, would you still have said it was inspired by the dog in the zodiac?

you know, since it's in between the dog and the fox in the family tree

>>26293327
>we get a legit chinese fire dragon
>hurr durr we never said that they wouldn't make replicates the theory still apply


Arguing with autistis that have God complex is impossible

>>26293395
Hell fucking yes. A tanuki would have been better than Delphox tbqh

>>26293292
Look. I get that foxes arent dogs, but i still think that they're close enough that it doesn't matter for the theory.
>>26293395
A tanuki?
The racoon DOG?
Probably.

>>26293397
>it's serpentine, so it's actually the Snake
>denial fags BTFO

Why can't people stop saying that this theory is shit. Foxes seems related to dogs. Just one search and it will immediately show that foxes are a mix of several genera of the family Canidae. So, what to argue?

>>26293445
I always wonder what the point is of posting in a thread you haven't read while acting like you're so much smarter than everyone else.

>>26293431
>The racoon DOG?

The Japanese conflate tanukis with dogs about as much as they conflate foxes with dogs, i.e. not at ALL.

Just because it has "dog" in the English name doesn't mean it's a dog.

>>26293431
right, and a red panda's a bear

>>26293438
>snake with wings ,jaw and proper teeth
>autistis would say that it somehow is

>>26293327
>What does the zodiac serve?
Its fun?

I'm willing to let the idea go when I get something like a duck or something way too far from the animals for me to bother, but that hasn't happened for me yet. Fire rodent works fone for me and foxes look enough like dogs. May not be close enough for you for some reason, but it's enough for me to see artistic influence.

>>26293506
I don't think red pandas are related to bears. However, bears are related to dogs.

>>26293431
>I get that foxes arent dogs, but i still think that they're close enough that it doesn't matter for the theory.

And I still think that you're retarded, so I guess our opinions aren't changing anytime soon.

>>26293508
You mean a Tsuchinoko? We already have one of those.

>>26293523
Red pandas are also called bear-cats, despite being neither bears nor cats. Just accept that English common names borrowing from unrelated animals are retarded and meaningless.

>>26293527
Guess so.
Not sure why you feel the need to be an ass about it, but I guess that's your own deal.

>>26293512
being fun doesn't stop it from being wrong

>>26293571
I'm probably not wrong. The more fire starters that are at are based on them, the more credence I get.

>>26293567
If all zodiac fags did was
>ha ha, isn't it kind of funny how it sort of looks like all the fire starters are zodiac animals if you squint?
>isn't that amusing?
then there wouldn't be a problem. Everyone laughs at the vaguely sort of maybe partially true pattern and goes "sure, yeah, why not? It's interesting." Instead, we get shit like this: >>26293631
Where every starter is some how evidence and "totally definitely for sure based on them."

You can't both pretend it's just for fun and say "well, they're obviously based on them why can't you see that?" You don't get to go "hey you're opinion is fine, it's all cool" and "I'm still totally right, though."

You think it's fun? Fine, no problem. You going "but it's totally fucking true and they're all definitely based on the zodiac animals" is.

>>26293698
Pretty sure the anti-zodiacs are taking this way more seriously than the supporters.

>>26293512
The entire cyndaquil line isn't based on rodents at all you dumb fuck.

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>>26291970

The only autism here is thinking that a zodiac inspired theme has to PERFECTLY match the animals.

This is a series where a name pun can justify a pure mammal becoming a Dragon type. The Fire starter Zodiac is obvious to anyone with a brain, and has been ever since Tepig was revealed. Grasp at straws and argue about semantics all you want, but it won't change anything.

>>26293698
Probably=/=for sure anon.
I've said it before, if I think the connectionis far too tenuous, like a duck or bug, I'll drop the theory. But a dog like creature and a rodent that's not exactly a rat arent enough for me to give it up.

>>26293749
Far as gamefreak is concered it seems to be.

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>>26293730
>Pretty sure the anti-zodiacs are taking this way more seriously than the supporters

I like you faggots just keep backpedaling more and more and more every single time you get your pathetic asses handed to you in a debate, as if your countless "antizodiacfags BTFO" threads and serious autism over the years was JUST A PRANK BRO.

>W-we were just PRETENDING!

Pure comedy.

>>26293327

>And for what? What does the zodiac serve?

Ritual conditions. Pokemon's wild success comes from a deal with occult forces. One of the stipulations was that Fire starters would follow the Eastern Zodiac.

Note that the lowest point in popularity came after so many liberties were taken with Cyndaquil.

>>26293811
Whatever dude.
Clearly neither of us will change our minds, so I don't think this conversation can really go anywhere from here.

>>26293805
No, as far as Gamefreak and Japan is concerned "Nezumi" can either be a species or a broad term that covers a wide range of several different families.

They still recognize the rat in particular as being a distinct species though.

>>26293730
>a good chunk of the thread is people trying to argue that, scientifically, foxes are close enough to dogs to count
>the general tenor of zodiac fags isn't "yeah, it's okay, it's just for fun no need to be so serious" but this: >>26293768
It's only "for fun" when it's hard to argue serious and then it's serious when "it's just obvious and you're all stupid."

Also, dumb shit like this: >>26293805
Which patently ignores that the Cyndaquil line is definitely not even rodents past Cyndaquil. Cyndaquil's like is "obviously" rodent inspired. Why? Because Gamefreak meant for it to be. Why did they mean for it to be? Because the Zodiac pattern is true and means all fire starters are zodiac inspired.

Why do we know the theory is true?

Because Cyndaquil's line is based on the rat.

I hope you can see the problem here.

>>26293847
And yet searching 鼠 gives me plenty of mice and rats as well.

>>26293871
We only start using the canide example because people get so adamant about foxes not being dogs. It's an example to show why we think it's related.

>>26293886
And yet Cyndaquil's line isn't even in the same family as mice and rats.

>>26293946
Then thay shouldn't have called it a fire mouse.

>>26293905
Ok I bet you think that aliens constructed the pyramids too

>>26283568

>Cyndaquil
>Mouse Pokémon

Get fucked, the final phase might not be one but it's based off one in a way.

>>26293971
>Then thay shouldn't have called it a fire mouse.

Then you shouldn't have ignored my post that as far as Gamefreak and Japan is concerned "Nezumi" can either be a species or a broad term that covers a wide range of several different families.

>>26293979
Nah.
>>26294012
Including rats and mice

>>26293992
Yes the same way that blastoise is based on a shellfish

>>26293905
>people get so adamant about foxes not being dogs
People get adamant about foxes not being dogs, because foxes not being dogs, comrade.

They're related, sure. But that requires stretching the theory to fit, and it's a different stretch than was needed before, which was "the final starter is a dragon, so it's a dragon" and "the first form is a mouse, so they're all rats." Oh and "these next three don't need any qualifiers." It's a basic example of poor logic and circular reasoning.

The only reason to believe Fennekin is a dog, and all the other qualifiers, is because you believe the Zodiac theory is true. But the only reason to believe the Zodiac theory is true is because all of the examples justify it. If you want to argue the zodiac theory, you can't also argue the starters are something other than what they are because that fits the theory.

Evidence cannot be justified by the thing that very same evidence is itself being used to justify.

>>26293905
You use the canid/canidae example without understanding what that MEANS, how genetically diverse the family is, and how far back the species divergence goes.

Honestly, you people are beyond fucked. What are you gonna say if the cat turns out to be something different than a tiger?

>>26294046
Then it will be a feline, a family from which tigers are part of as well. Still close enough to confirm the zodiac theory.

>>26294043
>But that requires stretching the theory to fit
The theory is that they're based on/take influence from the zodiac. Not that it's an exact match.

>>26294071
Even though there's a specific legend about how the CAT was excluded from the zodiac despite being in the fame generic family as the tiger? How far are we regressing here?

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>>26291894
little late on the response, here. but I agree, this whole thing seems arbitrary. like how those 4 masks in Majora's mask are somehow homages to Star Fox just because they're based on common animals.

>>26294111
I doubt it will just stay a domesticated cat.

>>26294111
the theory is not about the legend, it is about fire starters being inspired on the zodiac. INSPIRED, which means they don't have to be exactly the same animals but at least something that's related or looks like them.

>>26294089
But why is that the theory? And why do 3 of them match nearly exactly? What made you look at Cyndaquil and Fennekin and go "yeah, those are kinda rat-like, only the first one though, and those are kinda dog-like?"

What was your reasoning for thinking of them that way, and not "yeah, those are vaguely badger-like, just the 2nd and 3rd though, and those are vaguely tanuki-like?

>>26294131
So, assuming it doesn't become a tiger, what if it's a panther?

Are you seriously going to argue that a panther represents a tiger? Are we really going there?

>>26294138
>INSPIRED

So then you concede you don't actually have any solid evidence for your theory since the Chinese zodiac contains 12 extremely common animals that a gigantic chunk of OTHER animals are related to in some way.

>5 out of 7 clear matches, 1 that has rat/mouse in its species name, and 1 that that's in the same family as dogs.

Why do Anti-Zodiacfags even bother at this point? There's a obviously a pattern.

You probably wanted something that didn't match the zodiac at all like a bat or scorpion, and you lost hard when Litten was revealed. Stop being so salty and admit defeat.

>Gen 4: Charmander isn't a Dragon type and Cyndaquil looks nothing like a mouse. Next gen with crush this theory.
>Gen 5: Muh Charmander and Cyndaquil.
>Gen 6: It's only related to a dog! Zodiacfags BTFO!
>Gen 7: It's a cat, not a tiger! The Zodiac story says that cats were disqualified because the rat tricked them!

>>26283775
>I don't often hear people call foxes, wolves, and coyotes "dogs."

Two of those species can mate with dogs.

>>26294162
>But why is that the theory?
Because it's what matches the evidence closest. Like any Hypothesis.
>And why do 3 of them match nearly exactly?
Creative interpretation. Again falls under the "based on/influenced by" part.
>What made you look at Cyndaquil and Fennekin and go "yeah, those are kinda rat-like, only the first one though, and those are kinda dog-like?"
The pokedex and that foxes look enough like dogs and are in the same family.

>>26294179
There's only 3 that really fit you faggot


Not even bother to read the rest of the post

>>26294179
yeah 7,1,5,3,5,8,13... is totally the Fibonacci sequence. 5/7 is enough, right?

>>26294176
>Are you seriously going to argue that a panther represents a tiger? Are we really going there
They're both big cats. I'd still consider it an inspiration. That beins said, I'm pretty confident the striped kitty's going to be a tiger.

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>>26294179
Charizard totally look like a chinese dragons.
Also the zodiac theory didn't start before gen V, before that people didn't notice anything, if they was really a pattern people would have found it before.

>>26294182
Hahaha No they can't you fucking tard

>>26294179
Anon. You're not helping. I was finally starting to get the point across when you had to rile them up again.

>>26294176
>So then you concede you don't actually have any solid evidence for your theory

Theory: Fire starters are inspired on chinese zodiac
Evidence: all 7 of them have been inspired by the animal or families in the chinese zodiac, or at least referenced as such

>>26294279
>Charizard totally look like a chinese dragons
Like all of gen 1 is based on East Asian animals only

>before that people didn't notice anything, if they was really a pattern people would have found it before.
>>Literally failing pre-algebra at school
You cant find a prttern before it is stablished, anon-kun. You need to see it being played out

>>26294182
Great but foxes can't breed with dogs what makes your argument useless

>>26294024
did you back pedel so hard you forgot the point? Cyndaquil isn't a mouse or a rat. You fall back on the species name as if it that somehow changes it. Others point out that there's no contradiction. Now your next move is...?

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>>26294227
The "creative interpretation" argument you Zodiacfags keep depending on is so fucking bad I don't even know where to begin.

Like, now we've come to the point where anything that is even tangentially related to any of the 12 animals is now acceptable.

The remaining animals left is snake, horse, rabbit, ox, and sheep. There are literally dozens of different animals in the same family as those animals.

You're making the qualifiers for your argument broad to the point of being questionable. If the next fire starter turns out to be an antelope, you'd say it represents the ox since it's in the same family. If it's a gecko, you'd say it represents the snake.

>>26294322
Theory:your mom fucked a gorilla multiple times

Evidence:all her known sexual partners look somehow like gorillas and share the same family and her son is retarted

>>26294369
>The "creative interpretation" argument you Zodiacfags keep depending on is so fucking bad I don't even know where to begin

>depends on the "you might get proven wrong in the future" argument

wew

It's funny how zodiacfags and owlfags have the same reasoning. Remember when the trademark leaked and only roothoot really corresponded owlfags tried really hard to make the two other fit the leaked trademark, remember when they tried to say that the rocky fire thing was a chinchilla and that chinchillas are called dragon cat in chinese?

>>26294369
The theory is that theyre influenced by the zodiac. Of course they can be tangentially related!

>>26294411
I'm not depending on that at all, I'm specifically laying out hypothetical examples of things that you've already done with Fennekin and Cyndaquil.

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>>26294369
GECKOS AND SNAKES ARE NOW ON THE SAME FAMILY

OH WOW

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>>26294322
When you put that way it looks way more stupid

>>26294436
Too bad that there isn't a Fox in the zodiac

>>26294462
That's the theory you're arguing against.

>>26294461
Mustelids and rats aren't in the same family either, yet here we are.

Let's make it simple: If the next 5 fire starters are 1 snake, 1 rabbit and 3 ungulates; then zodiac fags win.

Can't be simpler than that.

>>26294483
No one said it was.
But foxes are very dog like, so the theory of influence still fits.

>>26294505
Cyndaquil is a mouse/rat what are you on about

>>26294514
Or we can just ask Masuda on twitter and end this once and for all without waiting 15 years.

>>26294514
Fine with me.

>>26294520
>foxes are very dog like

To the extent of being distant cousins, sure.

>>26294539
Then do it already

>>26294537
Cyndaquil's design is based on a mustelid.

>>26294539
>haha i dont know

>>26294557
I don't have a twitter account

>>26294520
They aren't close at all

Also there's 0 people in this world who would think:wow I need do something dog related

I know I will make a Fox


Holy denial desu

>>26294544
Yeah. What part of "influence" arent you getting?

>>26283530
FIRE RABBIT FUCKING WHEN ?
I need this in my life.

>>26294514
>the next gen it's a it's a fire cow
>hurr durr it's inspired by the sheep

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>>26294560

doesn't matter. It's still a mouse Pokémon.

>>26294571
The part where your definition of "influence" covers anything even slightly related to the animal in question, making your whole theory flimsy by default.

Pokemon is filled with more retarded asspulling theories than anything else in media, and this is one of them.

>>26294560
That's a bit of a stretch.
If you say the whole line, sure.

But cyndaquil looks like a shrew spot on. Even has the long nose.

>>26294586
Nope. See: >>26293847

>>26294567
Then make one if you think it will do anything. It's your idea after all.
>>26294569
Why not? It's been said before they're in the same family, and most people don't seem to care about the differences. Maybe GF thought the fox better fit france.

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>>26294615
No. It's a mouse Pokémon.

>>26294614
Shrews aren't in the same family as rats either.

>>26294621
It's you who want to prove that your theory is true, I don't really care, I'm just tired of seeing thread like that.

>>26294598
Being in the same family isn't what I would call "slight".
They have very similar features. The biggest differences are that foxes are smaller, thinner, and hunt alone.

>>26294628
>not reading the post

So then you admit that you have no argument.

>>26294621
>They are in the same family
So fucking what that it's a 30 million separation degree ,it doesn't mean shit

>Most people don't see to care about the difference

No only autistis that accept the theory ingnore the big fucking difference so it fills their retarted theory


Most people would say that a fox isn't a dog

>>26294638
Then either deal with it or hide the threads.

>>26294652
Humans and sharks have very similar features
Thus sharks are now on humans

>>26294652
>Being in the same family isn't what I would call "slight".

Only because you don't understand what a taxonomical family actually is, how varied it is in regards to species diveristy, and how far back it goes.

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>>26294655
You can't argument against canon info.

>>26294569
>Kalos is based on France
>Need something dog like
>The fox is a popular animal in French culture (e.g Reynard)
>Similar looking to a dog

Guys guys guys, I know, guys I KNOW.

Let's make a list of animals that would disprove this hypothesis. I mean, it is the scientific way of doing it.

I'll start with some.

Whale (which is an ungulate, but noo)
Dolphin (same as above)
Platypus
Equidna
Kangaroo
Koala
Hippopotamus (which is an ungulate but ehhh)
Any reptile besides a snake OR a legless lizard at most
Any amphibian besides a caecilian (highly doubt they would choose this animal e/w)
Any fish
Porcupine
Hedgehog

Help me here famiglia

After we got this list sorted out we just need to play the waiting game

>>26294682
If you remove the dog part it makes sense

>>26294659
>Big fucking difference
That foxes are basically just smaller loner dogs? Most people can see a fox and say "yeah, that's pretty dog like".
Hell, the canide family is described as consisting of "dog-like" animals.
Why are you so obsessed over them having to be exact representations?

>>26294680
>still not reading the post

"Nezumi" is its dex classification in Japan, and I've already covered why that word is not always used to refer to the rat species.

>>26294697
Any other bird woukd immediately kill the theory as we already have our chicken.

>>26294697
Cut all the fish/sea related mons since I highly doubt they will make a fire/water starter

>>26294701
yes but it also makes sense with the dog part since it covers both the French culture and the Chinese Zodiac

>>26294697
Any plant or man made object obviously.

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>>26294706

>>26294705
Ok you're fucking dumb


1-Most people see a fox and say:hey that's a fox I'll take a pic of it for facebook


2-you would call a monkey human? Because what are monkey other than humans with more hair

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>>26294706

It says the same thing in Japanese.


It's a fire mouse Pokémon.

>>26294603
/co/ related theories are by far worse.

>>26294736
It would make sense too if you say cat,wolf and coyote

That doesnt prove shit


Just prove that you don't have any good argument

>>26294759
>wikipedia

it's like you want to be wrong

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MFW the Chinese zodiac word directly translates into canine, and Westerners changed it to dog.

Foxes are canines, sorry.

>GATDAYUM BILLY BOB, THIS AIN'T NO DAWG. WE WERE TOLD TO HUNT FOR DAWGS!
>SHUT THE HELL UP CLETUS, IT'S A FAWX IT'S CLOSE ENUFF! MOST FOLKS IN THESE PARTS DON'T EVEN KNOW THE DIFFERENCE!

Pic related, average Zodiacfags.

>>26294706
Nezumi is the japanese name for the rat in the zodiac.

>>26294767
Monkeys are primates like humans. But we cant exactly have a human starter can we?

You tell the comon person Foxes are related to dogs and they'll say "yeah, I can see that".

And yet again sense you seem to keep ignoring it, no one ever said the zodiac had to be exact. Just that it's influenced by it.

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>>26294821
Forgot my pic.

>>26293631
Haha, wow. You actually don't know how logic works.

>>26294826
Nezumi is the Japanese name for a rat or a broad layman's term referring to multiple species and families. You're not disproving my point.

>>26294848
How so? The more evidence I obtain for my theory, the more I can back it up. Simple as that.

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>>26294808
Wrong


At least make some research before shitpost

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>>26294697
You should add shrews, honey badgers, foxes, and cats to that list.

Oh wait.

>>26294833
If I say to people that foxes and cats are related most people would say"yeah , I can see that"

Also as I said

When being influenced by a dog you get something like arcanine not a pokemon that is a fox

>>26294870
And you are just ignoring my point. The japanese call one of the animals in the zodiac Nezumi, Cyndaquil is the fucking hi nezumi pokemon. It can't get more straightforward than that.

>>26294826
No it isn't. The Japanese use different kanji for the zodiac than for the common names for the same animals. The zodiac rat is 子, common name is 鼠. They do not share phonetic readings.

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>>26294833
>But we cant exactly have a human starter can we?

>tfw you will never get to pick your pokegirl when you become of age ;-;

>>26294874

犬 or Quǎn directly translates into "canine" which is the word used in our zodiac. Yes the word 狗 or Gǒu is used but we prefer 犬. I'm fluent in the language, so I see this as really stupid from a Westerner's viewpoint.

>>26294705
It's not a matter of "exact," it simply either is or it isn't there is no half measure, that's the entire point of taxonomic classification.

>>26294933
>And you are just ignoring my point

No, I'm directly refuting your point. Nezumi isn't a straightforward term in Japan.

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>>26294940
Nope

>>26294940
Too bad that foxes aren't canines

>>26294951
But pokemon and the theory arent based on taxonomy. The fox looks enough like a dog that the influence is obvious to anyone not adamantly against it.

>>26294940
>I'm fluent in the language, so I see this as really stupid from a Westerner's viewpoint.

Then you must also see it as stupid from a Japanese standpoint since the Japanese specifically use the term "inu" when referring to the Chinese zodiac's dog.

Also, a fox isn't a canine either so you wouldn't have a leg to stand on even if you were right (which you aren't).