What went wrong? Why is modern gaming so casualized?

>>26194641
>use exp share
>HURR WHY AM I SO OVERLEVELED THIS GAME IS FOR CASUALS

>>26194641
Yeah, three attacks Exeggutor is so hardcore and challenging!

>>26194656
but you could use the exp all in gen 1 and not end up overleveled. So what went wrong?

>>26194656
When someone leaves their DS around me, sometimes I'll go in and switch off their EXP share and not tell them about it.

I have fun.

>>26194665
Yeah, four-fo-....wait? How many moves does Diantha's Gardevoir have again? I couldn't tell because I 1HKO'd her with my overleveled Pokemon. Oops.

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>>26194641
>naming your Vaporeon Mila when gen 1had no genders

I ended up underleveled in both gen6 games while being on par with the rest except for the ridiculous jump of B/W

>>26194641
Because you turned on EXP share.
Even with a level difference Diantha's team is way stronger than Blue's anyway.

>>26194641
this isn't even that greninja player's highest level pokemon either, his highest is a lv75 sylveon

>>26194677
>overlevelling your Pokemon
Yes, the "*'game'*" is casualized

>>26194641
While I won't necessarily disagree that gaming is getting casualized, it actually makes sense for the differences in levels getting smaller. Back in the days of RBY, the movesets for all the Pokemon were fucking garbage except your rival's last Pokemon. With AI and enemy movesets getting better, there's less of a deficiency to make up for in the player vs the AI with raw stats.

Also, I only play through XY with the exp share off, and my teams are usually in the low-mid 50s at Diantha.

>>26194698
>Yes, the "*'game'*" is casualized

Yes because the game is what overleveled my Pokemon.

>>26194704
>the game overleveled you Pokemon
Have you tried.... not overleveling your Pokemon?

>>26194666
Exp all in gen 1 works different than exp share in gen 6. Exp all split all the experience points equally amongst the members. If the fight should give 60 exp, all members would only get 10 exp. The same as if only 1 pokemon got any exp. In gen 6, the exp share gives all your non battling pokemon half the exp. So if the battle gives 60, your main pokemon will get 60, and then all your other pokemon will gen 30. Which is 350% of the exp you'd get in gen 1.

>>26194688
Oh you, Diantha is the most pathetic of all the champs even being lower leveled. She isn't even worthy enough to be a Gym Leader. Shit Brock is harder than Diantha is.

Also Gen 1 had the same EXP Share.

>>26194714
no because I'm just playing through the game normally. I'm not going out of my way to grind pokemon.

>>26194732
>Exp all in gen 1 works different than exp share in gen 6.
Exactly. So gen 6 is more casualized.

>>26194641
Too be fair its not like the level curve is the issue in X and Y, the main problem is the dreadful exp system.
>inb4 hur duh don't use expshare
Don't lie to your self, the levelling is way too broken even without exp share.

>>26194734
Alder and bird keeper Lance

>>26194734
>Brock is harder than Diantha is
>game throws you a bunch of Pokemon that beat his right beforehand
>can win in RBY with Charmander anyway since lelnorocktypemoves
Also, not counting Alder, who is effectively a postgame boss, Diantha has the highest-leveled Pokemon of any champ

>>26194669
dafaq

>>26194677
I lost to Diantha on my first try. What now.

How would rank the Elites 4's difficulty? For me its

Gen 4 > Gen 3 > Gen 2 > Gen 1 > Gen 5 > Gen 6

>>26194753
Diantha is still easier.
>>26194778
Higher level doesn't make her harder, or is Red the hardest trainer because he has the highest level Pokemon?

She's still a pushover on ridiculous levels. I like X/Y too, but Diantha is an awful Champion because of how easy she is.

>>26194751
You could have just cut off the exp share. But you purposely overleveled yourself instead of cutting it off.

>>26194799
>Diantha is an awful Champion because of how easy she is.
Guess someone was playing with the exp share...

>>26194788
4 > 3 > 1 > 5 > 2 > 6

>>26194799
depends on your team but seriously who doesn't have boltbeam on their team? Lance's types are horrible

>>26194787
You're fucking horrible at a children's game. The only Champion that should ever beat you before rematches is Cynthia.

>>26194641
MY STARTER POKEMON IS A HIGHER LEVEL THAN A POKEMON I GOT FREE AND EVOLVED WITH A STONE MID GAME

>>26194825
1 > 2 > 3 > 4 > 5 > 6 > 7

>>26194817
Didn't play with it actually, turned it off. Nice assumption there though, I was actually about 6-7 levels under-leveled going into the E4. I had problems with the actual E4, Diantha as Champ though, not a single one. It was almost as sad as running through Sinnoh's E4 prior to Cynthia with Torterra and Luxray EQ/Crunch combo.

>>26194809
I didn't "purposely" do anything. The EXP share is automatically turned on and nobody tells me the game isn't balanced around it. It's the game's fault, not mine, GF shill.

>>26194839
>1 > 2
How to spot a poser bitch

>>26194734
Nice meme.

Diantha is stronger than Blue and Lance.
Gen 1 had a vastly different EXP share.

>>26194701
In my most recent run, my highest was at 63 against Diantha, and that's mostly because I only used 5 pokemon on my team, so more exp per team member, Seibold kept KOing me with his damn Gyarados (I didn't have an electric type or someone who could use electric moves), so I grinded a bit with the other e4 members. Team range was probably 57-63

>>26194817
Literally all the Exp. Share does is remove any grinding. If you end up underleveled, you didn't fight every NPC and ran away from every encounter.

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>>26194842
>he had trouble with Cynthia
Ah, OP is a Sinnohfetus. That explains everything.

Come back when you graduate high school and I'll explain things more clearly.

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>>26194839
You clearly failed math class.

>>26194842
But that all depends on your team. When i had Abomasnow with me i one shoted Garchomp with Ice Shard, same goes for Diantha. If you have a very fast Pokemon that can hit hard you'll destroy her Gardevoir. Same goes for any other champ.

>>26194846
Actually, if you ignore all optional trainer battles, run from all wild Pokemon (bar 5 to catch), you will be underleveled. You chose to overlevel.

>>26194734
>Gen 1 had the same EXP Share.
Gen1 EXP share only helped one other pokemon, not the whole team.

>i-it's not casual if you purposely handicap yourself!

How is this a valid defense for anything? By this logic no game is ever casualized because you can just handicap yourself in some arbitrary way.

>>26194846
>I trained all my pokemon to level 100 on the first route and the game was super easy afterwards! It's the game's fault! They should have never given me the option fucking stupid game!

Fucking retard.

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>>26194641
Fuck off, OP.

>>26194863
Running away from wild pokemon saves time.
I can't KOing every goddamn zubat. I'll be old and gray by the time I make it to victory road.

>>26194876
There is literally, physically, logically no possible way to ever make a main-line Pokemon to ever be remotely difficult in any way, shape or form.

>>26194875
Underage fag detected. No, it affected every Pokemon in the party. The difference is that it splits the EXP literally six ways (if you have six Pokemon) instead of giving extra 50% exp out no where like gen 6 does.

gen 1 is 100% exp
gen 6 is 350% exp

>>26194884
nice cherrypicking.

>>26194890
Nah, if you restrict yourself enough you can make even super casual games like Pokemon or Dark Souls difficult.

>>26194890
Finish a Splash-only run, you memeing sack of shit.

>>26194898
>>26194641

>>26194893
>No, it affected every Pokemon in the party.
Really?
Well it's been 18 years sense I played it, I'm bound to forget some things.

>>26194877
Not the same thing. The game discourages you from grinding on wild Pokemon the first route because you get less and less relative EXP from it. But nothing is discouraging me from not using the EXP share. Retard.

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>>26194898
It's two-way road, motherfucker.

>>26194898
Why OP's picture wouldn't be cherrypicking either ?

>>26194907
OP's isn't cherrypicking because almost every playthrough ends up like that.

That other guy was just like
>sh-shit how do I prove OP wrong
>oh I know I'll find a playthrough with no exp share and find a gen 1 playthrough with an overleveled mon that may or may not be a rematch

>>26194868
>implying Cynthia doesn't have the most competent team out of every Champion especially in Platinum
Not him, but I'll say this as someone who has played since Gen 2.
>>26194885
Well yeah, but I usually fight the ones with decent Exp. yields.

>>26194915
>Retard.
>>26194877
>Fucking retard.
DELETE THIS

>>26194899
>dark souls
>casual
Nah, it's just got a gentle learning curve. Beginners are fucked relentlessly, but they get their footing pretty quickly, and learn fast how to avoid bullshit.

Kind of like pokemon actually.

>>26194932
But OP's image aligns with his opinion so it's not cherry picking.

>>26194656
>>26194665

Stop being mad that your first pokemon games were Ruby or Sapphire. Just move on already, jesus fuck. This gen 6 defending and sucking cock to justify your shitty childhood is pathetic.

>>26194641
Gee, I sure haven't seen this thread before.

>>26194933
>I'll find a playthrough with no exp share
Maybe because that's how you're supposed to play the game if you don't want to be overleveled in the end
Play like this and you'll be far from overleveled, the game is still piss easy but still

>>26194951
Trying to prove gen 1 was challenging is proof of a brain damage

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Pokemon was never difficult
the closest it got was BW2 Challenge Mode but even then it's really not that tough

>>26194951
Presumptions to discredit your opposition a good argument does not make.

>>26194868
I graduated highschool 8 years ago and still have my original cartridges of Red, Blue, and Yellow, Red I bought a month after release. But again, good assumptions. Keep spouting those memes though.
>>26194870
Agreed, it does depend largely on team composition, but personally I haven't had much of any problem with Diantha or Lance as far as Champions go, because I feel it's easier to cover them than it is say the other Champs.

It's just personally I find her the easiest overall, and I've played her several times with different teams since it's been out, still find her easy personally. I find it odd that some people are taking such offense to it honestly.

>>26194951
Now this is shitposting.

>>26194960
>Maybe because that's how you're supposed to play the game if you don't want to be overleveled in the end

no it's how you're supposed to play the game if you're a GF shill and want to defend the game's easiness somehow.

It's like defending a casual game by going "y-you're supposed to nuzlocke it!"

>>26194972
It was never difficult but it was also wasn't always piss easy ultra casual mode like it is in gen 6.

>>26194846
>the game starts with the cursor on easy, why would I move it to hard?
>THIS GAME HAS SHIT DIFFICULTY DEVELOPERS WHYYYY
Retard.

>>26194834
Iris can be a cunt if you're a bugfag finally happy to use a bunch of good bugs.

>>26194890
- Challenge mode = On
- Gym Leaders/Elite Four switch their Pokemon
- Gym Leaders/Elite Four Pokemon hold items
- Gym Leaders/Elite Four Pokemon have amie bonuses
- Gym Leaders/Elite Four can use Megas
- Ace Trainers & Veterans can use the above except no amie bonuses
- Rising Stars can do all the above except no megas and no amie bonuses

Boom, a challenge.

>>26194902
Overlevel to 100, spam Max Revives and Potions until the opponent struggles to death.

Not difficult, just time consuming.

>>26194933
>making up excuses to justify OP's cherrypicking
Hilarious.

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>>26194951
>Y-you didn't start with gen 1 you underaged fag

>>26194991
That's different because the game is explicitly showing you difficulty options.

Nobody ever tells you the exp share is easy mode and the player is going to assume the game is balanced around it. Just like any tool in any video game.

The exp share isn't a difficulty toggle so stop acting like it is.

>>26194997
Still easy as absolute fuck. Just level any random 6 mons to 100 and you win. Time != challenge

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>>26194990
>it was also wasn't always piss easy ultra casual mode
But it literally was

>>26194997
There's no challenge here.
>grind Pokemon 5-10 levels above
>also use legendaries
How is it difficult?

>>26194998
>Not difficult, just time consuming.
As in every turn based RPG to exist?

>>26194890
That's because RPGs cannot be difficult.

>>26194893
Still kinda wrong. It would give the active pokemon 50%, then split the other 50 six ways between the party. If you had more than one pokemon fight, the formula got fucked and everything ended up getting even less.

>>26195013
>Time != challenge
It challenges my patience.

>>26195017
No it wasn't.

Unless you want to point me to the part in any gen that's not gen 6 where you're given a free legendary, a free 350% exp share, and free stones that turn your pokemon into legendary tier pokemon.

>>26195023
>>26195025
Many RPGs actually use max limits, in terms of max level/stat/damage caps, to make it more akin to a puzzle.

Or, some use enemies that are so incredibly overpowered that it forces you to use tactics. Many Fire Emblem games do something like that.

>>26194990
I'm not dumb enough to go cry about a game easyness if I selected the easy mode, disabling the multi exp is litteraly common sense if you want a little bit of challenge.
You should be smart enough to know that if the game is handling you a item to help gain more experience, it's to help casual player. Unless you need more handholding texts to tell you that you have to deactivate it to have a more challenging experience ?

>>26195036
None of that matters when you could steamroll Gen 1 with a Rattata.

>>26194997
>Amie bonuses
>Steven's Metagross read his mind and avoided the move!
>Diantha's Gardevoir is so in sync with its Trainer's wishes that it landed a critical hit!
>Steven's Metagross managed to hang on so that its Trainer wouldn't worry!
No. Fuck no. Adding more RNG never adds real difficulty.

>>26195050
How to tell that someone didn't actually play gen 1 and they're just on the anti-genwun bandwagon: the post

Beside of OP put a overleveling image (exp share), this is something true. Now playing a game is more popular but ppl get mad more easy, so how make ppl happy? Make your game accsesible for everyone, so more ppl would buy it. At least pokemon "still" have competitive, but sadly now is more easy than before. All this "gamer" complex start with the MOBAs and FPS

>>26194687
I tend to end up underleveled in RSE and FRLG.

>>26195019
>grinding lvl 5-10 lvls above
>using legendaries

you forgot
>be an underage faggot

>>26194890
Make opponent's Pokemon's levels be relative to your own, like in Pokemon Stadium/2. Now it's impossible to grind to beat them. Then give them great moves, stats and AI. Boom a challenge.

>>26194732
Then why not do it this way? It's stupid to add a comfort option that at the same time completely unbalances and ruins the game, if you even remotely try to catch most new pokemon you can, while traveling. You don't even have to train.

>>26195055
But you can. Rattata can learn Bubblebeam. With that, and dig, it can KO every Pokemon the game will throw at you.

>>26195066
That's a Stadium/PBR game, not a mainline game.

>>26195066
>Level scaling
Why have levels at all?

>>26195055
Dubs confirm. Gen 1's lack of endgame challenge is due to GF's laziness as opposed to Gen 6 being purposely toned down to keep smartphone kiddies on a powertrip.

>>26195066
Am I the only one that actually enjoyed PBR? I would actually consider getting a Gen 7 version.

>>26195080
Because you learn moves at certain levels. Plus wild pokemon.

>>26195080
Because they allow you to gain new moves and evolve.

You're obviously not suppose to grind anyway especially in the new games so they're already kind of obsolete.

>>26195066
That can be gamed by using powerful, but low levelled, mons with moves like Dragon Rage and Sonicboom.

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>>26194641
Nothing. They were only made to have high levels early on to compensate for shitty movepools.

>>26195100
>>26195106
This just in: breeding and TMs no longer a thing.

>>26195066
Fucking yes please. Level scaling and a nonlinear region, that is the dream game.

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>>26194933
Here you go then. Defeats the champion with the whole team at this level and doesn't face a single loss against it. You can't tell me this is hard.

>>26195064
>not using the tools the game provides you
Why?

>>26195109
Put a cut off limit to how low opponent's pokemon can be like in Stadium/2. Their pokemon were always at least level 50, but then if you had pokemon higher than that, then they'd be higher.

>>26194968
>>26194985
>>26195005
>>26194973

You guys completely missed Pokemon in its glory days. Youre just jealous you didnt experience that so you're grasping at straws to refute the argument that gen 6 isn't made for casuals. Of course it is fucking for casuals. X and Y were piss easy for the new players. I cant describe how much of a disgrace it was to the people who have been playing for at least a few years. Absolutely zero challenge at all. All pokemon games are easy but X/Y took it to another level.

>>26195100
>>26195106
Why not just reveal TMs at certain points in the game and make all evolutions stone based?

>>26195124
???

>>26195133
Again, then it would not be a mainline game, it would be a PBR/Stadium/2 game.

>>26195139
That'd be retarded.

>>26195141
According to the posters I quoted, a Pokemon must be a certain level in order to learn a certain move.

That is actually false. Both breeding and TMs allow Pokemon to learn moves earlier than just be levels.

>>26195137
>You guys completely missed Pokemon in its glory days.
I am 27 years old. My first game was Pokemon blue in 1997. I agree gen 6 is way too easy even without EXPshare.
But you're just throwing out assumptions to try to discredit someone's argument. That's a very childish move.

>>26195144
All they have to do is add those things to a mainline game. If they really wanted it to make it always challenging. Ofcourse the whole thing about just grinding to beat everyone is stupid anyway since most people don't want to/don't do that.

>>26194656
It's right though.
If it wasn't casualized, the new Exp. Share wouldn't exist

>>26195137
>You guys completely missed Pokemon in its glory days.
How would you know that ? I started with Yellow and played every gen since then. Of course I struggled on this game the first time, but it was just because I didn't know how the mecanics of the game worked. Once you get that in hands every game is piss easy. Kids who play XY as their first games experience exactly the same things as us

>>26195151
Elaborate.

>>26195139
Well no because then there's no feeling of 'training' or progression. Trainers having set levels just linearises the game and allows you to minimalise challenge by just grinding in the grass for an hour.

>>26194688
No, he didn't turn it off.
Which is reasonable, because it being turned on from the get-go implies the game is balanced around using the thing.

>>26195080
>Why have the feeling and pride of your Pokémon growing stronger at all?
Fuck off, retard.

>>26195094
I liked it. The problem was how barebones it was. It was considered a flop and they'll never do another one because:
>we already have Pokémon in 3D on handhelds xD
>a barebones Pokémon game on the Wii didn't do well because people obviously didn't want one, not because it was barebones or anything
>too much work to make HD quality renders of 720+ Pokémon with even more to come in Sun and Moon's Gen VII

>>26195155
But you also can get them by gaining levels. A lot of times, earlier than the tms are made available in the game. And most moves aren't tms and are learned by level up.

>>26195137
I've been playing since R/B came out. It's the easiest gen. Gary's pokemon may be level 60 - 65, but their moves are shit. Ember, Wing Attack, moves that don't even do anything in trainer battles like Whirlwind and Roar? And the whole game is like that. You rarely ever find a trainer in that game with any kind of coverage or with moves with more than 40-50 base power. You're an idiot if you think that's challenging. This series has always been easy and Gen 6 isn't even the easiest one yet.

They had to make the opponent's levels higher since they weren't willing to give em good movepools.

>>26195184
>>26195187
>The feeling of progression and training would be lost
But if trainers and wild pokemon scale with you, you wouldn't really get that feeling of becoming stronger would you?

>>26195137
>all those that contrast my opinion are underage fags that didn't play gen 1 at release and thus their opinion is irrilevant are you jelly? haha xD
No, fuck off. People have been playing since then and the only way it was hard was because many were kids at the time.
As Miiverse proves kids of today don't find RBY challenging either.

There's still no game easier than GSC.

>>26195093
>laziness
>first game was in production for 6 years
???

>>26195192
Pokemon in general had shit movepools. Zapdos was one of the few electric Pokemon to have more than just Electric and Normal moves.

>>26195198
Why would wild pokemon scale. Even random trainers don't have to scale just gym leaders, rivals and the elite four.

>>26195119
/thread

>>26194874
>ignore optional trainers
You don't think there's a problem with balancing the game if you have to avoid optional content?

>>26195198
But the whole point of levels was to allow for a difficulty curve in the game, which grinding completely nullifies.

>>26195137
Here's your (You). You're a retard if you think Pokémania was when the games were at their peak.

>>26194656
I am so tired of seeing this. You are most definitely NOT going to be overleveled if you use the Exp. Share. During all of my playthroughs of the Gen 6 games I was NEVER overleveled even though I had full teams of 6, grinded a few times when I felt I was actually underleveled, and I battled a majority of trainers. By the time I got to Diantha/Steven I was actually underleveled by at least 5-8 levels. Unless you are deliberately TRYING to be overleveled you aren't going to be, stop spreading this nonsense.

>>26195217
>avoid optional content

Avoiding enemies is considered avoiding optional content? Well fuck me silly, I did not think of it like that. Next time I play Nethack, I will be sure to man up and punch every lich I see and quaff every potion. I would not want to avoid optional content.

>>26195214
I guess that would be fair.
>>26195220
So would level scaling. If it where applied to the whole game at least.

>>26195210
You think the small dev team didn't get tired toward the end? Why else would Blue have such good Pokémon with such shit movesets? Why else were they somewhat fixed in FR/LG?

I have a question to all of you guys saying the games are too easy, do you guys actually grind in the game to beat gym leaders and trainers? Because the games can actually be kind challenging if you stay like, 5 levels or so behind each gym leader.

>>26195256
I only get exp by fighting every trainer I see once. That's it. I don't go out of my way to grind on wild pokemon.

You are a bunch of retards, every champion is easy if you bring the right guys to the battle.

>>26195256
My pokemon where getting too strong by X and Y's second gym, so I started avoiding various battles.
Was still overpowered by the time I got to the E4.

>>26195253
No it wouldn't because it forces you to fight Pokémon at higher levels than you, plus game freak can decide how many levels higher each trainer is.

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>Just turn the Exp. Share off!

A lot of us played the game blind, you know.

>>26195275
You can bring anyone to the champ of X and Y and still clear it with little issue.

>>26195240
Do said liches respawn/are limitless? (I wouldn't know, so this is a serious question) Because if they do, they're more like wild Pokemon (Which I didn't say to not skip)
Optional trainers are a different story, as they're finite in numbers, at least initially.

>>26195129
>not using the tools the game provides you
you're a fucking imbecile, in every RPG you can grind thousand fucking levels and use cheap tactics, that doesn't mean you have to resort to do that just cause you're a scrub who can't get good at the game

>>26195269
I'm currently playing HGSS by only fighting trainers and its actually challenging. Most gym leaders kill like 4 of my Pokémon which is a first for any playthrough I've done.

>>26195278
>Here is a thing that will exp boost your whole team
I'm sorry but I played blind too, and turning off the Exp share seemed logical to me

>>26195291
grinding isn't even cheap so much as it's just a complete waste of time if you're even remotely competent

>>26195256
I did a challenge run with stupid restrictions on the Pokemon in Diamond and SoulSilver.
Most of my team was in the low 40's against Cynthia, and my team was in the 60's against Red, respectively.
Red ended up being surprisingly easy honestly.
Outside of very few extreme instances, where I possibly threw a few extra levels to a specific Pokemon, I never grinded during these.

In normal runs, never grinding.

>>26195291
>Hey guys, I'm cool because I beat a game with out using things that the game developers put in game to help me progress smoothly
>I'm so much cooler than you losers
>Time to post on a forum about how much cooler I am
Do people actually care about in-game? I thought people on beat it to play online

>>26195253
My idea was that only gym leaders and certain bosses were level scaled

>>26195313
Since it's automatically turned on, it would be reasonable to assume the game is balanced around the use of it.
If it was initially turned off, or the game explictly told you that this is not the case, it'd be fine.

I did that. After I realized the gam ewasn't balanced around it, I still didn't turn it off, but made use of it to make a 12 Pokemon team instead, and that actually worked out pretty decent.

>>26195256
>challenge
Here's this buzzword again.

If you lower your levels, the difficult remains the same until it hits a point where it is impossible.

Think about it like this:
In gen 1, a Bulbasaur had to be level 15 to OHKO all of Brock's Pokemon. If you were level 16, would that be "easier" than being at level 15?
Conversely, would being level 15 be "harder" than level 16?

But, let's say you have a Charmander. At level 5, Scratch only does a single point of damage to Onix. However, Onix's tackle does almost half of Charmander's health. Is that a "challenge," or just nigh-impossible? Would being at level 6 make it easier? Would being at level 7 be easier? At a certain point, it goes from "nigh-impossible to win" to "nigh-impossible to lose."

Oversimplification, but the point remains. Pokemon as a game, due to the level system, is either nigh-impossible to win or nigh-impossible to lose.

>>26195278
Blind to all the other games, apparently.
>i gave exp.share to this Magikarp
>man getting Gyarados was easy as piss, Magikarp didn't fought once so i didn't have any problems training it

>>26195291
But i thought the game was challenging? Other RPGs use unique stuff like instadeath spells, voiding attacks or whatever to still keep the game mildly challenging despite the levels(though it applies more to action RPGs than turn based). Why can't Pokemon do the same?

If the game is easier just because i leveled up 5 or 10 more times than i should, then it isn't a difficult game. The game provides me with powerful Pokemon, why shouldn't i use them?

>>26195315
that's what i'm saying, only someone who doesn't have a single clue of what the fuck he's doing would waste his time grinding in pokemon games, maybe 1-2 levels to adjust your team before a boss fight but that's basically it

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>>26194641
>Why is modern gaming so casualized?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mMG096UqE0

>>26195277
>>26195348
I honestly didn't consider these possibilities. Yeah, that would totally be more fair.

>>26195342
>battle spot
All luck. And 90% played by kids.

>everything else
Full of hackmons and also kids.

Only way to play online is showdown.

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>>26195342
>forum
i'm not even gonna comment the rest, you have no clue of what i was talking about

>>26194641
That number meant nothing. It dies to any weakness.

>>26195375
Imagine if GF released a Stadium game with a buil-in Pokemon generator. You could make any team within minutes, just like Showdown.

Overall, I think nothing would change, just the whole pretense of "Yeah, I totes trained all these pokemans. Especiall this dreamball Aegislash." would disappear.

>>26195166
>>26195177

Why are you guys lying? It just makes you more pathetic. It doesn't matter what your first pokemon games were. Its ok that you missed gen 1 but you guys have to understand it is a lot easier to not struggle in XY than RBY.

>>26195426
Bait me with more effort please.

>>26195234
You're a fucking retard. Stay being mad that you missed gen 1. You will never get another chance to engross yourself in the prime of pokemon.

>>26195350
Fair point but I don't understand why would someone think that. If the game was built up around the Exp share use, then, turning it off would make the game impossible to play.
So what would be the point to balance the game around the use of an item that you can disable but would make the game a grindfest ?

>>26195352
>If you lower your levels, the difficult remains the same until it hits a point where it is impossible.

Thats retarded. Have you even played the game before. As your level go lower, your attacks do less and less damage. Making the game more and more difficult. There's not just a point where it's easy and a point where it's impossible. As I have and many other people have before, lost to someone, and then without training, played them again, and beat them using a different strategy. Thats what difficulty is, where you have less and less options to make you win. If you can just do whatever you want and win, then it's easy, if there's only a few or just one strategy that would make you win, then it's hard.

>>26195192
You haven't been playing since Red/Blue if you have an opinion like that. Stop lying like a huge faggot.

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>>26195352
>Challenge
>Buzzword

>>26195436
I don't need to because you keep replying like a retarded faggot.

>>26195426
>W-why are you lying
Okay, now that's some low quality bait there, or you're really dellusional

>>26195352
Do you also think when you lose to someone online, that the match was just impossible to win? And not just that you suck?

>>26195444
Prime!? I'll prime your ass! Experiencing a fad is not a requirement for anything. I bet you're one of those people that follow trends because you think you have to.

>Charmander was supposed to be the hard mode
>Brock in RB had no rock moves and such low special you could just kill them with Charmeleon's ember despite nve
>Almost every gym after that offers you one or two perfectly typed Pokemon to beat it in the wild right next to it
One of the only things making RBY hard were the shittiness of the Pokemon, their movepools, and TMs until they could duped. That's more like bad design rather than legitimatete difficulty. Besides obvious pandering to make the games easier like free heals mid route, more item drops, and etc., the games could only get easier by bring improved because of the shitty design of RBY.

Why was turning of exp share off called out but not the stuff suggested later to make Pokemon games harder?

>>26195313
"Will exp boost your whole team" is vague enough that it might not mean giving you extra experience points, especially considering that's not how it worked in literally every game prior to this. I was also probably not paying full attention to the text at the time because of XY's rivals never ever shutting up.

>>26195354
How the hell is Magikarp having a gimmick where you raise up a useless Pokémon by feeding it Exp., which takes away from other Pokémon's Exp. (you could have at least used the Day-Care as an example instead) remotely comparable to EVERY Pokémon on your team always getting bonus experience to the point of a total 250% increase, if you don't turn it off, which as I said you may not if you're playing blind?

>>26195457
So, having a level 15 Bulbasaur, where you OHKO each of Brock's Pokemon, it would be harder than having a level 30 Ivysaur? That certainly is an... interesting way to think of it.

>>26195485
Is that all you wanted?
I'll respond to you if you just ask dude. No need for all this other stuff.

The thing is, even if you're way lower then Blue, he's still super easy. I'm pretty sure most of my team were late 40's in my last playthrough.

>>26195528
No I didn't say that. You said
>If you lower your levels, the difficult remains the same until it hits a point where it is impossible.

Without referencing anything so you just mean in general. So you're saying that the game is always just easy or impossible. Which makes no sense.

>>26195352
>impossible
>not beating the game without ever leveling up

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFVSk7oTHBw

>>26195447
It would make it harder, possibly grindier (but if you needed to grind, that's when the item would be useful. To decrease the amount of time you need to spend on said grinding)

>>26195352
What? What a shit argument, obviously the lower you level your pokemon the harder it becomes, that's the nature of fucking maths not Pokemon.

I'm currently playing Soul Silver for the 4th time doing a run where I don't grind on any wild pokemon, only fighting trainers, most of my Pokémon have been 5 levels below each gym leader and it's much more difficult than any other time I've played the game, and I've still beat 3 leaders.
Tl;Dr: just gitgood fagit.

>>26195523
It's comparable because you're giving exp to a shitty Pokemon without making it fight, evolving it without it fighting, which is hard considering it's a shitty Pokemon, thus making the process easier. I said Magikarp but "level up without fighting" applies to every single Pokemon.

>>26195669
Again, it's literally the point of Magikarp. It's phsyically incapable of fighting when you catch it, since it doesn't learn Tackle until like Level 15, so you have to carry its bitch ass and let it siphon Exp. if you want to make it useful. That's its gimmick, it's not comparable to every Pokémon getting a giant automatic boost in every battle.

>>26195528
You're making this argument as if there are no inherent differences between bulbasaur and charmander; you're making a comparison between a level 15 bulbasaur and a level 5 charmander against an onix without even mentioning type advantages. Of course its impossible but if you fight brock with a level 10 bulbasaur it's still beatable without being impossible.

>>26195256
I stay around 10 levels lower than gym leaders in every game I play and it's fun as shit.

>>26195256
Outside of Steven (both as Champion and bonus boss), Cynthia and Red, no.

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>>26194641
Why don't you go to the battle maison or fight online if you want to get a challenge? It's a game for kids. It's hard as it has to be.
PS I'm still ashamed I play this game but fuck it

>>26194641
How much you think that trainer in your pick named his Frog "Riku" Because he's a fan of Kingdom hearts?

>>26195532
Respond to me idiot.

>>26195491
Why are you trying so hard pretending to be older on the internet?

>>26195733
I know right? You actually get a challenge, I feel like that's how the games are suppose to be played.

Why are you fuckers even arguing about difficulty? Pokémon has always been an easy as balls series. XY is no different once you remove your nostalgia glasses and bias.

The games are made casual to appeal to a wide fanbase. You have the option to not use all the tools available. Not every tool has to be used. There are dozens of items in the game too that I've never used. So fuck off with the "it's meant to be played using all the options" bullshit.

If you want a hard game to brag about your e-peen, go play Ni-Oh or Dark Souls and stop trying to change pokemon to cater to your needs. Don't like it don't play it. Not every game has to be "challenging" to be a good, enjoyable game.

Pokémon is a casual series and always will be.

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>>26194641

>make trainers switch if there is a clear type mismatch
>make more people use items instead of maybe a stirus berry on their final pokemon
>make some people use hazards, like rock gym setting up sneaky sediment or bug gyms using sticky web or toxic spikes for poison dudes
>IV train pokemon properly

You could also make there be a limit on the amount of items you use in a battle so you can't turtle with 60 full restores.

I would like different trainer classes to have different levels of AI, with gym leaders or ace trainers having the best AI and youngsters and karen and preschoolers having terrible AI. It'll probably never happen though.

>>26199076
>Dark Souls
>Challenging

>>26199125
I also would like the game to actually scale up to 100 instead of around 70 or so, but that might kill the postgame. Maybe have the rematch have a level 100 on the champion's final pokemon

>>26199125
This. I think one of the main issues in this game is its shit tier AI. Trainers rarely use moves that are actually effective against you and fucking never switch out.
It makes moves like pursuit basically pointless in game.

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The levels can be a few lower with good movesets.

But there aren't any trainers with hold items in gen 6, save for mega stones and a couple non-story extra battles.

>>26199158
In the maison the chick with the scarf lando won't switch even if she's locked into something that can't hit you

>>26199161
Gamefreak know they can make good teams like Wally's rematch team in OrAs. They're just too afraid to put them into the main game.

>>26194641
Who the fuck cares? It's a turn based RPG for children.

Gen 1 had inflated levels to compensate for the shit A.I.

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>>26194641
the ingame of pokemon was never
ever
ever
ever
EVER challenging

>>26194641
Except the Gen 1 E4 had pokemon with shit movesets that didn't pose a problem, even with the 10 level difference. The only gen I remember where you were underleveled and it really sucked was Gen 3. If you evenly leveled a team of 6 from the start of the game, fighting every single trainer, you are level 40 at the start of Victory Road.

>>26195013
>>26195019
Added challenge: levels no longer matter; all enemy Pokemon are the same level as your highest leveled Pokemon and Pokemon do not gain experience from battles (only wild encounters) PWT style.

>>26199388
Then why level at all? Just get something with a good moveset and fuck shit up.