Why would you use a toxic orb over a flame orb?

>>25820253
Poison Heal and Toxic Boost

>>25820253
burn = less damage (physically)

>>25820253
>>25820253
Toxic Boost and Poison heal

Also over 2 turns, Toxic orb does less damage than Flame Orb, so if you plan to switch your Swellow or whatever in and out a lot, Toxic Orb is superior

>>25820253
Toxic does less damage in two turns than Burn.

>>25820276

This.

Burn cuts Attack.

>>25820253
Both

>>25820275
>>25820310
>A Pokémon with Guts does not lose Attack due to burn.

If only Flareon and Zangoose learned U-turn to better counter Toxic.

>>25820330
allegedly

So a flame orb would be better on a tank like Milotic since it only cuts physical attack?

>>25820348
Of course, and Milotic can heal the damage anyway.

>>25820348
Leftovers would be better on a tank like milotic, what's wrong with you? Why would you want your tank to lose HP each turn when it could gain hp each turn?

>>25820253
I guess you'd be more susceptible to attacks like Venom Drain and Venoshock.

>>25820380
>Marvel Scale
>Defense is 1.5x if statused

>>25820402
>What is ReSTalk

>>25820380
Marvel Scale.

>>25820348
Never use a fucking flame orb to activate Marvel Scale. One of the biggest noobtraps ever. Like I remember sooooo many people posting shit like that when gen 4 came out. It was a hilarious time of experimentation and wonder.

>>25820411
>>25820402
Don't.

>>25820444
Why though? It can learn recover.

>>25820469
Because it's a tank. A tank losing hp each turn is unacceptable. It doesn't matter if you have 450 defense. It's fucking useless if you kill yourself. And you'll never have the time to use recover every other turn in order to sustain your self-damaging tank.

>>25820469
>>25820516
Oh and just for the record. Milotic would lose 12.5% HP per turn from Flame Orb, when it would have recovered 6.25% with leftovers, a difference of 18.75% when Milotic is not at full health. Just think about that for a second. That's all you really need to know to understand that Flame Orb is counterproductive to Milotic.

>>25820253
I run zoroark with trick. It switches toxic orb to the opponent. Then I have gengar with sludge bomb and venusaur with leech seed.

I try to play like a hybrid karen/smogon fag using my favorites competitively so my tactics revolve around tricky bullshit.

>>25820561
Its not only the defense boost, also makes Milotic not be affected by poison, bad poison, paralysis and sleep, increasing its tanking capabilities at the cost of some hp that can be restored via recover or aqua ring. Plz git gud

>>25820338
one of the most autistic things ive read in a long time

>>25820935
allegedly

>>25820625
or you could just use toxic, which virtually every pokemon can learn

If you aren't a guts user, wish to use facade, and have other attacks as well.

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>>25820910
>advises using aqua ring
>tells someone else to gid gud

>>25820253
Flareon is a guts attacker that's immune to burn, so you'd have to use toxic. Also, burn nerfs physical quick feet users.

>>25820253
It's very situational.

Do you plan on playing hit-and-run? or do you plan on staying in for more than two turns to sweep?

Toxic does less damage over a couple turns than flame orb. However, you are limited to 6 turns of staying power, assuming you don't even take any additional damage in those 6 turns. It's good for if you plan on doing damage, swapping, doing damage, swapping, rinse and repeat, because the damage counter resets every time you swap. So you could potentially keep your self alive for more turns per battle, just not consistently.

With flame orb, you can sit in for the long hall and not have to worry AS much about increasing damage, or even taking additional damage, potentially.

As a side note, if your guts sweeper has a form of sustain, like roost or drain punch, then flame orb is superior because you don't have to worry about the increasing damage over time from toxic.

However, as rare as the situation is, I have seen few pokemon running the flame orb/guts strat have their abilities suppressed. That means that they just burned themselves and deal significantly less damage output as a result. Not really something that you should be worrying about, but the possibility is still there, in which case toxic orb would be better because hey, your ability might be gone, but your base attack isn't cut in half an is still solid enough to put up a decent fight without guts.

>>25820253
> Guts
> Poison Heal

Among other reasons already posted

>>25823633
Guts users don't mind the burn from FOrb aswell

>>25821394
My espeon has toxic. There's the added benefit of throwing a wrench in the opponents strategy by taking their item

>>25821394
Fun Fact: If a poison type uses Toxic it bypasses any sort of acc. check. It even hits through semi-invulnerable turns like during fly, dig, dive, and sky drop.

Meaning your poison type could be at -6 acc., your opponent could be at +6 evasion, while "in the air" or "underground/ underwater" that shit will land EVERY TIME NO MATTER WHAT. assuming they aren't a poison or steel type...semantics

>>25820253
Fire type Guts users (Flareon)

Put it on a Gengar opr other poison type/magic guard pokemon and Trick it onto a Chansey or some other wall. Burn won't kill it fast enough, but Toxic would quicken the death.

>>25820330
And what about Quick Feet?

>>25823853
Huh does it really even hit when they are using fly, dive etc?

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>>25820348
>>25820380
>>25820402
>>25820411

>not using best milotic

>>25820408

This guy knows

>>25823894
This

Guts Urasing: Give it flame orb
Quick feet Ursaring: Give it toxic orb

>>25824090
>leftovers

So, why are you not using best Milotic?

>>25824237

>Guts Ursaring: Don't use

Fixed

One Swords Dance is equal to a Guts boost, and Ursaring needs the speed boost

>>25823934
>Not doing the research yourself

But yes. Bulbapedo confirmed.

>>25824302
>Samefag here

Also forgot to mention that the Acc. Bybass was a recent mechanic introduced in 6th gen.

People complained about evasion for so long that GF decided to use that as one of evasion's "nerfs."

Unfortunately, the GF developers suck at their own game and don't know how to properly balance shit.

>Oh we'll just give some random old pokemon a +10 in an arbitrary stat, while also reducing a few powerful moves' BP by 5 or 10.

>Items were huge in previous games. Lets buff the fuck out of knock off.

>Parental Bond, -ate abilities. Those sound powerful, and surely they will help old pokemon find a new light.

>Uh oh. Parental Bond is more powerful than we thought. Surely by adding even MORE powerful shit, it will make Parental Bond less appealing to use. Also, lets make a mega that is faster than Kanga and give it an ability that prevents Kanga from faking it out. It'll surely be the PERFECT counter and very widely used....

>Priority Brave Bird....GENIUS.

Fuck you GF. You better not fuck up Sun and Moons' competitive scene more than you for gen 6. Jesus Christ...

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>>25824268

>Using anything else on rest talk milotic

>>25824474
>Let's give Azumarill +10 Sp. Atk

what in the literal fuck were they thinking

>>25820625
>3 OU mons
>I need to resort to gimmicks.
Ok...

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>>25825010

>Zoroark
>OU

>>25825029
I haven't followed the meta since ORAS came out, but nontheless, Zoroark isn't as shitmon...

>>25825040

It wasn't OU in 5th gen either....

>>25820625
>sludge bomb
>not sludge wave

I guess you feel like you don't need those extra 5 bp?

you'll understand your mistake when you "git" "gud".

>>25820253
several reasons
tox orb does less damage the first two turns than flame orb, so if you're using a hit and run guts/facade mon, that could be better
poison heal / toxic boost
if youre using, say, ursaring and want to use quick feet, flame orb will hurt your attack

>>25825147
Sludge wave is only available on gengar through a event

>>25824474
>h oh. Parental Bond is more powerful than we thought. Surely by adding even MORE powerful shit, it will make Parental Bond less appealing to use. Also, lets make a mega that is faster than Kanga and give it an ability that prevents Kanga from faking it out. It'll surely be the PERFECT counter and very widely used
Which one is this?

>>25825375
Mega Gallade.

>>25825147
> I rather have 5 more bp instead of 3x more chances to do 1/8 each turn
Stop pretending to be stupid man. If you keep doing it, I'll believe you.