>but first we need to talk about parallel universes

>>25084454
In one, Pokemon exist and are shitposting about us all anons.

Zinnia was a terrible character.

>>25084465
>people complain about pokemon being too childish
>finally a complicated, hard to read character appears
>"its terrible"

Vp prefers kiddy characters like Blue and callim them good lol

How old is Zinnia? I only fap to characters of age.

>>25084501
>a complicated, hard to read character appears

Here's your (You)

>>25084526
old enough to read old enough to breed

>>25084501
>hard to read

Her battle pose gave me a chubby

>tfw no spinarak jamboree

>>25084546

but some people learn to read by the age of 12, anon...

In a alternate universe Pokemon Z is already out and fixes all the problems of the past games

>>25084454
You're a generation too late, dragonfucker.

Alternate universes were confirmed back in Black and White.

Do you think she was QPU misaligned?

>>25084581
Alternate universes were confirmed in RBY, when I picked Bulbasaur, but my friend picked Charmander.

Go back to /v/

>>25084501
>hard to read is not shorthand for emotionally stunted
I miss when it was just called "childish"

>>25084526
If she's old enough to pee, then she's old enough for me.

Origin>Pokemon TSME Act III>OR/AS>XY

>>25084624
I'm not even from /v/, but this is a good meme. It's based on a rad guy, has just enough content, and can be related to a lot of things.

>>25084626
>not smarter than you

>>25084626
Emotions are just chemicals triggered by your surroundings, only an animal responds to them

so can someone dump some pics plz???!

>>25084753
Watch this instead https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpk2tdsPh0A

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>>25084552
>>25084753
Only one I need brie

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>>25084758

>this video

This is THE most autistic thing I've legitimately ever seen this week/spoiler]. Have some Tifa.

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Zinnia is so bad she singlehandedly lowered the game's review scores.

>>25084758
People really do not know the buttons are pressure sensitive

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>>25084753
Sure, I'll post Super Mario 64 images.

>>25084803
Would Tifa be a lopunny?

>Tfw you use Agility for 12 hours

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>>25084825
You raised your Ariados first, right?

>>25084807
But she's legitimately one of the best characters in the franchise.

>>25084848

OK, how? Why?

>>25084501
Zinnia is not complicated.
However, I do agree that the pokemon fanbase hates any attempt at writing something more complex than the teletubbies.

>>25085092
>Fanbase ate the shit out of N

The difference was they gave N an entire game for an Arc, while all she had was a postgame ditty to do her part.

>>25085122
>Fanbase ate the shit out of N
Lots of people called him a Mary Sue. /vp/ in particular did so.

But yeah, it's an odd exception.

>>25085092
That's just some of /vp/, it's considered Gen V's saving grace for a lot of fans. The main issue is that for the story to work with a silent self-inserty protagonist you need a lot of talkative party members, which is an issue given that your party members are Pokemon. Or, they give in and make the protagonist their own developed character. That wouldn't sit well with a lot of the fanbase.

If they want to tell grander stories they should break the team villain formula more than anything.

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>>25084454

She was a retard, but that was an interesting take on remakes. Also the reason why pokemon like Palkia are showing up from mystery rings.

>>25084848

Fuck no, I hope we never see her again.

>>25085139
>That's just some of /vp/,
>there's literally an anime general thread
yeah, no, that's not how it works

>Or, they give in and make the protagonist their own developed character.
Gen V did that. N was the story protagonist, Hilbert/Hilda where the player characters.

>If they want to tell grander stories they should break the team villain formula more than anything.
You can still pull it off with villains, but you need to execute it correctly. Gen V, Emma and Zinnia's plots shows they want to do it, which is why I hope they never listen to the pokemon fanbase.

>>25084454
She is a good character and there is nothing wrong with talking about parallel universes you fucking autists. You all need to play Mystery Dungeon and the shut the fuck up.

>>25085170
It may make sense from a Doylist point of view, but from a Watsonian perspective anyone not from Unova would've said that it's impossible and that Zinnia is fucking retarded.

>>25085168
>>there's literally an anime general thread
>yeah, no, that's not how it works

This response is a non-sequitur from my perspective. I don't know what you're getting at. What I was saying is that people, even a lot of /vp/, liked the story in the one story focused gen.

>>25085196
I said the pokemon fanbase in general doesnt like stories (not only gen V)and then you said that that's a part of /vp/ and proceeded to talk about Gen V. There being an anime general proves they dont like stories, as I said.

That said, I think you probably replied to the wrong post, hence the confusion.

Notice how in this thread, and in pretty much every Zinnia-related discussion, anyone who defends Zinnia is completely incapable of explaining what makes her a good, complex, or well-written character. They just say she is and you're dumb for questioning it.

>>25085308
Zinnia is a good character in the same way that every character in pokemon can be considered "good". She is liked by some and not by others for whatever reasons.There are only like 6 characters in the games that are actually "complex" or whatever. Like N.

>>25085308
She is good by virtue of having an actual backstory, an actual personality that drives her actions and has to go through actual development until the conclusion that she's not who Rayquaza wants to save the world with, but you.

She's not a complex or great character per se, but for this franchise, she's golden.

Most haters just hate her because she's featured on a part of the game that requires reading and having basic reading comprehension skills, so they prefer to diss her as "badly written". Like it usually happens everytime the franchise tries to do something that's not "Ash's retarded adventures".

>>25085334

That's got nothing to do with what I said, asshole. I don't give a shit how shallow Pokemon is or for your false equivalencies.

If Zinnia is so complex and such an admirable effort and a "good character" then it should be easy for people saying it to explain why, right? But they can't.

Also the overwhelming response to Zinnia has been negative, it's not "some people like her, some people don't." Her entire Pixiv page is a chronicle of why people hate her existence. So fuck off.

>>25084454
Sure, there are a few parallel universes where my dick is inside your ass right now.

>>25085236
>Everyone visits the anime general

>>25085347

You are so full of shit it hurts.

>She is good by virtue of having an actual backstory,

Which is not given, which you have to learn from sources outside of the game.

>an actual personality that drives her actions

What is her personality? How is her personality somehow more valid than that of other characters? You even admit that she isn't a complex character, so how does she have an "actual personality" when apparently everyone else doesn't?

>and has to go through actual development until the conclusion that she's not who Rayquaza wants to save the world with, but you.

1- She doesn't "go through development," she literally just runs around being everywhere and forcibly stealing shit. Zinnia does not learn new things during this time period or grow in any way, she's just jerking everyone around and when scientists tell her she sounds crazy she just says "lel w/e gonna do it anyway."

2- And then what happens? She almost fucked over the world twice and she just says "welp gonna go find myself SEEYA" and everyone shakes their head. You think that's somehow complex. No wait, even you don't think that's complex, it's just you set the bar that fucking low.

You are such pretentious human garbage. You think everyone hates Zinnia because they all like the Ashnime and fear her dark themes. In reality she's just a shitty character, poorly implemented.

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She had the same "development" as Maxie and Archie, where she realized she messed up and had to go off to atone. But we all acknowledge that Maxie/Archie were fucking retarded. Somehow, though, Zinnia is deep? Yeah no.

>>25085236
>not filtering the anime general

>>25084559
>missing the joke

>>25085236
What even goes on in the anime general?

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>>25085463
>where she realized she messed up and had to go off to atone
Not even close

>spends most of the main game dealing with his evil plans
>throws grunts at you occasionally leaving you to play catch-up throughout most of the game
>has the gall to actually come at you face to face instead of playing hide and seek
>realizes 3/4 of the way in that he just fucked up just as it becomes too late to go back
>regrets his decisions immediately and does everything in his power to help you set things straight

versus

>spends the entire delta episode fucking you and the gang over
>goes everywhere being a fucking spaz and bitching about "muh aster"
>is so dead set on her shitty plan she destroys the only possible contingency available
>all because of fucking hypothetics
>her plan falls through, predictably
>leaves it up to you to mop up the massive trainwreck she's caused
>gets in your fucking way on top of that
>the only thing she does to "atone" is piss off indefinitely

fuck zinnia

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>>25085347
>actual backstory

The one we didn't learn about until Ohmori got interviewed because they're nothing in the game about it?

>an actual personality

More like ten different personalities. One minute she's all-knowing and wise, the next she's rash and impulsive, the next she's crying about "Aster" (again, we didn't even know who Aster was until an interview months later), the next she's swinging around like a wild ape like in >>25084782

And she doesn't find out she's not who Rayquaza wants until after her plan completely failed and she destroyed the only alternative plan. If you weren't there the whole world would've been destroyed, and she's just all "lol oops that was close, I'm glad my plan worked!!!"

Zinnia is shit and you probably defend her just to try to get her to come back so you can fap to her, but I expect her to be back anyway, Ohmori wrote her in such a way that I think she's his OC and I can see him pushing her into every game from now on like Looker.

>>25084454
No first let's talk about "furry" and why you help them by perpetuating their terminology

>>25085388
It exists

>>25085401
>Which is not given, which you have to learn from sources outside of the game.
Only Aster's identity is not explained in the game and may be done in a later game. And not revealing the full story doesnt make her a bad character.

>What is her personality?
Her obsession with fulfilling the goal bestowed upon her, her closedness regarding her feelings, her apparent obsession for the MC, and that's only remembering out of the top of m head, I havent played ORAS since release.

> How is her personality somehow more valid than that of other characters?
Because most of what we know of them are from the dialogue, they are for the most part, very passive or just there for exposition like Scott.

>She doesn't "go through development," she literally just runs around being everywhere and forcibly stealing shit. Zinnia does not learn new things during this time period or grow in any way, she's just jerking everyone around and when scientists tell her she sounds crazy she just says "lel w/e gonna do it anyway."
You clearly havent paid attention, so you have proven my point. Haters cant fucking read. She in the end has to accept she's not the chosen one, it's the player.

>No wait, even you don't think that's complex, it's just you set the bar that fucking low.
Yes, because I play the pokemon games. Don't you?

>You are such pretentious human garbage.
nice logic

> You think everyone hates Zinnia because they all like the Ashnime and fear her dark themes. In reality she's just a shitty character, poorly implemented.
Yes, it's what I infer from discussions regarding the game's writing, pokespe or the spinoffs, people cant deal with something that requires the IQ of an 8 year old.

>In reality she's just a shitty character, poorly implemented.
And you have yet too post why.

>>25085463
>She had the same "development" as Maxie and Archie, where she realized she messed up and had to go off to atone.
Maxie and Archie werent raised on a Magma and Aqua clan or anything, it's a different thing. And she also didnt mess up anything, the world was saved, she didnt bring the meteor to Earth.


>. But we all acknowledge that Maxie/Archie were fucking retarded.
How do you think most people define Zinnia anyways?

> Somehow, though, Zinnia is deep? Yeah no.
No one said she's deep.

>>25085641
>It exists

That's like saying everyone on /vp/ has a furry hypotism fetish because aura time was a thing.


And he just explained in detail why she's poorly implemented, to which you reply with "ugh you just can't read."

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>Zinnia will never lewdly whisper in your ear her entire plan for over 20 minutes in incredibly autistic detail

Why live?

>>25085593
>The one we didn't learn about until Ohmori got interviewed because they're nothing in the game about it?
What interview?

>
More like ten different personalities. One minute she's all-knowing and wise, the next she's rash and impulsive, the next she's crying about "Aster" (again, we didn't even know who Aster was until an interview months later), the next she's swinging around like a wild ape like in >>25084782
So she's not a one note character? I dont see how that's a bad thi...oh, wait, pokemon fanbase. The only actual issue you pointed out is the gif.

>And she doesn't find out she's not who Rayquaza wants until after her plan completely failed and she destroyed the only alternative plan.
You mean the alternative plan that was going to destroy the RSE Hoenn?

>If you weren't there the whole world would've been destroyed, and she's just all "lol oops that was close, I'm glad my plan worked!!!"
Yeah, because you are who Rayquaza wants, what's even your point here.

>Zinnia is shit and you probably defend her just to try to get her to come back so you can fap to her
I'm not defending her because she's a great character, I'm defending her because the haters are fucking idiots and one of the main reasons the fanbase sucks.

>>25085657
>That's like saying everyone on /vp/ has a furry hypotism fetish because aura time was a thing.
But some people does, which is what I meant.
Also, I feel the pokemon anime is a tad more popular than aura time, but that's just a hunch.

>And he just explained in detail why she's poorly implemented, to which you reply with "ugh you just can't read."
Yeah...if you ignore the entire post, then yeah.

>>25085641
>>25085686

You got rekt and your only comeback is "wah wah this fanbase sucks." Perhaps you are not as smart as you believe you are.

>>25085725
>You got rekt
how?

>and your only comeback is "wah wah this fanbase sucks."
>cherrypicking this hard

>Perhaps you are not as smart as you believe you are.
But I'm not smart. I'm not braindead retarded either.

>>25085748
There's only the two

>>25085641
>or just there for exposition like Scott.
Her entire purpose was to let the player get Rayquaza when it really wasn't needed to save the world. That was her exposition purpose.

>>25085758
>A character used for exposition can only be used for that

Have you ever watched/read like, any media ever?

>>25085758
you didn't use rayquaza to destroy the meteor?

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>>25085686
>oh wait, pokemon fanbase
>the haters are fucking idiots and one of the main reason this fanbase sucks

>this fanbase is shit because people don't like my waifu!


To actually answer your points though,
>So she's not a one note character?
No, she's a sloppily written character who shifts from personality to personality without any correlation or reason. I'd go so far as to call her "lolsorandum" but I chose not to do that at first so you didn't dismiss me as shitposting.

>You mean the alternative plan that was going to destroy the RSE Hoenn?

Yes, and it's a better plan than not having one at all. If I could destroy a planet in another dimension that I've never met and never will meet in the future to save my world, and there wasn't any other method of doing so, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

Zinnia did offer a plan, but before she even had her facts checked and without even asking "hey let's try my plan first, if it works we can save both dimensions!" she destroys the only alternative because she's lolsorandum.

>what's even your point here

My point is that developing a "oh shit I fucked up" isn't anything meaningful when it's entirely your fault and you deliberately led things the way they are, then you leave without any atonement and a general tone of "oh hey my plan worked, I'm the best!" in your dialogue. Maxie and Archie have dumb plans but you know what? When their plan failed, they

>1) Worked to their full power to undo it, giving you the deep sea/lava suit
>2) Decided to try and dedicate their lives to doing good and actually appeared again
>3) Were portrayed as villains and their dumb plan as being a dumb plan, while Zinnia was portrayed as being a hero just because her plan was able to be salvaged by you, despite dooming the world with a crazy fucking idea the same way a Maxie and Archie


Zinnia is shit, and I'm wondering if you play and watch nothing but Pokémon to have such low standards at what is a "complex" character.

>>25085641
>And you have yet too post why.
>too
>the entirety of the post he replied to was explaining why

Show's over fellas, someone needs to put the retard back in his cage

>>25085780
>this fanbase is shit because people don't like my waifu!
She's not my waifu, and I never meant that. But that only goes to prove my point so thanks.

>No, she's a sloppily written character who shifts from personality to personality without any correlation or reason. I'd go so far as to call her "lolsorandum" but I chose not to do that at first so you didn't dismiss me as shitposting.
Her only inconsistency is her attitude in battle, you can mourn a lost friend AND be rash. You seem to want her to be a one trick pony.

Again, she's not a complex charatcter by any means, but you seem to want her to be dumbed down.

>
Yes, and it's a better plan than not having one at all. If I could destroy a planet in another dimension that I've never met and never will meet in the future to save my world, and there wasn't any other method of doing so, I'd do it in a heartbeat.
That's pragmatic cynism. Did you really expect fucking pokemon to do that?

>
Zinnia did offer a plan, but before she even had her facts checked and without even asking "hey let's try my plan first, if it works we can save both dimensions!" she destroys the only alternative because she's lolsorandum.
Do you know what's lolsorandum means? You literally explained why she hijacked the only alternative.

>>25085780
>My point is that developing a "oh shit I fucked up" isn't anything meaningful when it's entirely your fault and you deliberately led things the way they are
She didnt fuck up anything though, what are you on about?
Her plan was to use Rayquaza to destroy the meteor and save both worlds( which is, you know, an actual thing) and it happened that way. She wasnt the chosen one, but she didnt mess up anything, only her own expectations.

>and I'm wondering if you play and watch nothing but Pokémon to have such low standards at what is a "complex" character.
I seem to be the only one in this thread who did watch something that;s not pokemon. What I do wonder, however, is that if you actually played pokemon or just read /vp/ shitposts. And, if you were able to read, you would know that I didnt say she's a complex character, just one of the closest thing to that this franchise has. And, again, you proved my point.


>>25085811
And I argued why those are wrong.

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>>25085853
It's not that I want her to be dumbed down, it's that I want her to not be a shit character.

>Did you really expect fucking pokemon to do that?

Considering this is the generation that had Fashion Hitler about to fire a genocide ray to kill all of France, and that ray being confirmed to have been fired before, why not? If they didn't want it to be an option, they wouldn't've written it to be an option. They did so anyway, then removed the option via a retard doing so because "my plan is totally gonna work guys!"

>You literally explained why she hijacked the only alternative.
It's lolsorandum because she destroys it BEFORE checking if her plan would work.

>she didnt mess up anything
You fucking idiot.

I'm out, I can't argue with this guy anymore, my sanity can't take it.

>>25085896
>Considering this is the generation that had Fashion Hitler about to fire a genocide ray to kill all of France, and that ray being confirmed to have been fired before, why not?
Lysandre's plan failed and was evil to begin with, not the same case.

> If they didn't want it to be an option, they wouldn't've written it to be an option.
It wasnt an option, you're the MC, you're the good guy, good guys tend to find ways to save the most people possible. I cant believe you're seriously arguing this.

>It's lolsorandum because she destroys it BEFORE checking if her plan would work.
But she DIDNT want the other plan to work, she didnt see it as an alternative, because it wasnt. If you're an edgelord that considered destroying RSE an option that's fine but not everyone is, less so on a kiddy game.

And, if anything, that makes her an idiot(which I partly agree), not lolsorandumb, that would be if she did it for no reason without any care for anything, which is clearly not the case.

>You fucking idiot.
How did she mess anything up? Did she summon the meteor? Was the world saved?
Explain why.

>I'm out, I can't argue with this guy anymore, my sanity can't take it.
>sanity
>the guy who wants a kiddy game to go full edgelord
Kek, but I least I wont have to deal with your idiocy anymore I guess.

>>25085775
I'll spell it out more

>they could've zapped the meteor somewhere else with this timeline's tech
>the player is told that it would've hit RSE Hoenn
>in game, this make horseshit sense to anyone because some mountain bitch is rambling without any context
>a non-retarded character would've sat down and explained the situation, which would've just ended in them warping the meteor literally anywhere else to save the day
>all of her retardation is to railroad the story so that the player gets a Rayquaza by destroying all the other options

The other chucklefuck was saying that her personality was special because it wasn't just there to drive a plot point into place, like Scott. He's wrong, because her purpose was to push the player into getting a Fug when there were plenty of other ways to handle the situation.

Does that make sense?

>>25085961

You are the one defending the full edgelord character, and you have been exposed already as a retard by two guys. It's simply not worth further effort to argue with you.

You got told and you're waifu a shit.

>>25086001
>You are the one defending the full edgelord character
She's not edgy though, I explained why

>and you have been exposed already as a retard by two guys
Again how?

>You got told and you're waifu a shit.
But she's not my waifu, as I said, and as you would know if you bothered to read.

>>25085992
>in game, this make horseshit sense to anyone because some mountain bitch is rambling without any context
And, you know, the fact that the plot of every game after gen 3 is based on the fact that legends are true and Steven is really dedicated to that.

>a non-retarded character would've sat down and explained the situation, which would've just ended in them warping the meteor literally anywhere else to save the day
She's retarded, yeah, but that doesnt make her a badly written character.

>all of her retardation is to railroad the story so that the player gets a Rayquaza by destroying all the other options
Which is, you know, how the world is saved.

>He's wrong, because her purpose was to push the player into getting a Fug when there were plenty of other ways to handle the situation.
Zinnia doesnt have meta knowledge you retard. She's a character.

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>>25086028

Steven never says "lel the legends are all true" you retard. He is researching them and wondering if the legends fit into the context of what he's already investigating.

Zinnia comes out of nowhere and says "guys what if there's like, another universe?" and when everyone says "where is your proof of this?" she says "YOU LACK IMAGINATION LOL" and smashes the Link Cable, thus 100% wiping out the only proven method they have of diverting the meteor on the basis of something even she herself has no knowledge of.

How is this, in any way, good writing? How is she a complex character who develops when all she does is fucking skip around going LA LA LA I'M RIGHT EVERYONE ELSE IS DUMB and then only at the very fucking end when it all blows up in her face she goes "hmmmm well I guess I was wrong" and just wanders off? Are you legit retarded?

There is a reason fans from literally all nations shit on this bitch.

>>25086100
>Steven never says "lel the legends are all true" you retard. He is researching them and wondering if the legends fit into the context of what he's already investigating.
Legends are true in the pokeverse regardless.

>
Zinnia comes out of nowhere and says "guys what if there's like, another universe?" and when everyone says "where is your proof of this?" she says "YOU LACK IMAGINATION LOL" and smashes the Link Cable, thus 100% wiping out the only proven method they have of diverting the meteor on the basis of something even she herself has no knowledge of.
She believes that, she was raised to do so, did you pay attention?

>How is this, in any way, good writing?
For pokemon, it is. You also have to explain why its bad, because your point seems to be "she isnt 100% smart and doesnt think the same way I do so...BAD WRITINGGGG".

>How is she a complex character
She's not, as I said multiple times.

>when all she does is fucking skip around going LA LA LA I'M RIGHT EVERYONE ELSE IS DUMB and then only at the very fucking end when it all blows up in her face she goes "hmmmm well I guess I was wrong" and just wanders off?
Her being stupid doesnt mean she's a badly written character anon, yo have no clue about writing.

> Are you legit retarded?
Well, I can interpret a game for 8 years old correctly, so I'm at least the less retarded one here.

>There is a reason fans from literally all nations shit on this bitch.
>caring about the opinion of pokemon fans
Pokemon fans are seriously retarded anon, I dont really care about their opinions. They are the same people who will do anything to prove a character that hasnt progressed in 20 years is the best thing since sliced bread.

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Okay I'll come back to address one more thing

>>25085961
Good guys do NOT always find ways to save everyone, and it isn't edgy to think that. Hell, if saving everyone was the only way to go, Lysandre would've been saved at the end of XY, he's a sympathetic villain who once did a lot of good and was close friends with Sycamore, there was a chance there. Is XY edgy for killing him offscreen (supposedly at least, I fully expect him to come back if there's a sequel to XY, probably with him rebuilt as a cyborg from offscreen injuries)?

You don't throw your hands up and say "we either save EVERYONE or all of us die, no middle ground!" That's the idealogy of a lunatic extremist. You try to save everyone and if you can't you go with the next best plan. You don't actively thwart anyone trying their own thing just because it has more collateral damage than yours; if people have to die to save you and your entire planet, then that's simply the way it is.

If Zinnia told them to postpone their plan until Rayquaza was summoned, then that would have been a different scenario. Hell, she could have come up front and said "wait, I know a better way" and she probably would've gotten less resistance and more support than she did beating everyone up and refusing to spill the beans about her plan until AFTER she fucked up the only other chance of the world not being destroyed.

It's childish to assume saving everyone is the ONLY option, and it isn't edgy for me to say that. There have even been other Pokémon games with sacrifices, PMD2 has you cast away the future world to nonexistence to save the present (until a bonus story in Sky reveals the future world survived because reasons; you didn't know that though). Is PMD edgy for this reason, because it made you choose (in-character, not a game choice) to throw away one world to save another? Do you call any game series where not everyone makes it and the heroes have to sacrifice something "edgy?"

>>25086226
And to add to the PMD2 example, you KNEW about the future world, saw it, knew some of the people from it, when you made that choice. Here, you only hear about the RSE dimension because Zinnia tells you, you never see it or see any characters from it, there's literally no proof that it exists. Throwing the meteor into the RSE dimension has far less impact on you or anyone in ORAS than the other choice, so if using the Link Cable is edgy then PMD2 must be like Coldsteel-tier edgy.

>>25086226
>Good guys do NOT always find ways to save everyone
They often try. More so on an idealistic game like pokemon

>and it isn't edgy to think that.
Letting a whole universe die and thinking is the right thing is very edgy. Specially since there's another solution that worked.

> Is XY edgy for killing him offscreen
No, because Calem and Serena dont exactly go and shoot him.

>You don't throw your hands up and say "we either save EVERYONE or all of us die, no middle ground!" That's the idealogy of a lunatic extremist.
Or, you know, a heroic character on an idealistic kids game.

>ou try to save everyone and if you can't you go with the next best plan.
Zinnia had a better plan that sort of worked out though (even if not the way she expected)

>If Zinnia told them to postpone their plan until Rayquaza was summoned, then that would have been a different scenario. Hell, she could have come up front and said "wait, I know a better way" and she probably would've gotten less resistance and more support than she did beating everyone up and refusing to spill the beans about her plan until AFTER she fucked up the only other chance of the world not being destroyed.
I agree she should have explained things from the getgo, even if she wasnt believed. That makes her sort of stupid. But stupid!=badly written.(unless the character in question is supposed to be smart of course, which is not the case here)

>Do you call any game series where not everyone makes it and the heroes have to sacrifice something "edgy?"
Sacrificing an entire universe is sort of edgy anon, or at least cynical, and not really the usual fare for this things.
Heck, why do you thing they stated the future survived in PMD2?

>>25086226


>>25086287 here
All of that said, I congratulate you for being able to present a coherent point based on actual proof and arguments unlike most people ITT.

I'm tired of arguing against a circular retard who's too mentally deficient to greentext responses correctly. Peace out. Zinna a worst.

>>25086309
AKA "I have no arguments left".

But good, at least I wont argue with a retard who cant even read and completely misinterpret the events of a kids game.

Zinnia is literally one of Rayquaza's 'chosen people' who rejects the modern world's solutions to her problems and instead sticks by her wilfully deluded beliefs in the face of the destruction of the entire world.

She's the Pokemon equivalent of those Orthodox Jews who want to ethnically cleanse the Middle East (including Israel itself, and all the moderate Jews) in order to fulfil the prophecies of the Torah.

How does /vp/ hate a story in which a Jew is a bad, dumb character who has to be defeated by the strong, ideologically pure (aka fascist) protagonist in order to save the world? You should love Zinnia, because she's shit.

>>25086287
>(unless the character in question is supposed to be smart of course, which is not the case here)
She was portrayed as a mastermind who set Archie and Maxie on their courses for the sole purpose of awakening the ancient Pokemon so that Rayquaza would get off its green scaly ass so she could say "while you're at it, smash this space rock". But her character switches every three sentences and she goes from mastermind to ninja to retard to yandere to gorilla to parent to emo with absolutely no cohesiveness. THAT is a badly written character.

>>25086287

She's badly written because she's an annoying "wacky" cunt who serves no purpose other than to force you through the shitty Delta Episode, which is nothing but backtracking. And then despite literally ruining everything, having no proof behind anything she said, and being purposely vague the game has the gall to portray her as some sort of sympathetic anti-hero and everyone just laughs the shit off.

You don't even have an argument. You're basically saying "well it all worked out though right?" Yes, because you were there, by sheer luck. If you weren't, everyone would have been annihilated, because of this dumb fucking clown of a character who shows up in her big clown shoes to force you to play through a poorly written mess of her own creation.

And I will not reply to you from now on, because frankly you're a retard and not worth it. But yeah, you're a retard, and you're wrong, and your argument is weak.

>>25086337
>actually points out something that happened in the game
Fair point, I dont feel like her being a ninja or yandere, or "emo" is against her being supposedly smart or retarded, but yeah, her being such a mastermind for Rayquaza's awakening and then not being able to solve the problems with Devon faster is very contradictory. If anything she should have also manipulated Devon to never even try launching the rocket. I agree, that is bad writing.

>>25086364
>She's badly written because she's an annoying "wacky" cunt who serves no purpose other than to force you through the shitty Delta Episode, which is nothing but backtracking.
That's not bad writing.

>nd then despite literally ruining everything
She didnt ruin anything and helped save the RSE world

>having no proof behind anything she said
the legends she was raised with

>You don't even have an argument. You're basically saying "well it all worked out though right?"
Because your "argument" is that she caused a mess, when the entire trouble wasnt caused by her, she didnt summon the meteor, she was trying to SAVE both worlds. And even then, she fucking made it(even if not the orthodox way), she didnt go the smartest way about it which another anon proved was bad writing by actually paying attention to facts in the game.

>But yeah, you're a retard, and you're wrong, and your argument is weak.
great argumentation skills

>>25085992
No because the answer is never, "just fling it somewhere else" fucking destroy it already
I haven't even played and she dun gud

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>>25084454
>Imagine another Hoenn, similar to this one but not identical, where Scuttlebug is a Pokémon and you can use it to reach the star in 0.5xA presses...

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>>25086287
>They often try.

Before Zinnia came along they didn't even know about the other dimension, after she came along she didn't even give them a chance; if she was more open they could've potentially come to an agreement of the "we'll try your idea and if it fails then we'll go with ours" sort. They weren't given a chance to do so before she crashed their plan, they weren't in the wrong at any point because they weren't given a chance to accept Zinnia's plan before she made it the only plan.

>there's another solution that worked.

One, it barely worked, and if you weren't at that specific place at that specific time it would've failed entirely, as has been said by myself and others countless times. Second, as I stated above, they weren't given a chance to research or attempt the other solution before she fucked up the only alternative.

>Zinnia had a better plan
AGAIN, first, it almost didn't work and wouldn't have if you weren't in the right place and the right time, stop calling it a good plan when the execution ruined it. Second, if Zinnia was open and they tried her plan first, and it worked as intended, they wouldn't have needed to teleport the meteor, thus saving everyone. Instead she didn't give them the chance to do so in the event her plan failed, dooming them all by default.

>Heck, why do you thing they stated the future survived in PMD2?
Because they were doing special side stories in the third version and wanted a happier ending for the future than the one originally written. In Explorers of Darkness and Time, Dialga only saves the main character, and that's after months of being dead. No statement is ever made about Grovyle, Dusknoir, Celebi, and the rest of the future not being wiped from existence as the plan went. It's similar to the movie adaptions of Mobile Suit Zeta Gundam changing the ending to be less happier.

>>25086471
>less happier

*more happy, I rewrote that sentence partway through and fucked up

>this piece of shit thread
>this much arguing over a simple pokemon character
Kill yourselves. All of you.

>>25086485
The other guy started it.

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>>25084454

The meteor ended showing up in Explorers (the one rayquaza destroyed)
This confirms Mystery Dungeon series happen on an alternate dimension with no humans, also that said region is Hoenn as well.

Now, the Primal Dialga which appeared on Explorers of Sky hints there's yet another dimension both without humans and with mega evolutions, as well as hinting a Primal form for Dialga on the main series.

We need to go deeper

>>25086471
>They weren't given a chance to do so before she crashed their plan, they weren't in the wrong at any point because they weren't given a chance to accept Zinnia's plan before she made it the only plan.
You seem to think Zinnia's mindset is the same as yours and it isnt, she doesnt even consider Devon's plan to be a valid course of action.

>One, it barely worked
It worked literally as how it was supposed to be with the only exception being that Brendan or May used Rayquaza instead of her.

> if you weren't at that specific place at that specific time it would've failed entirely
And Zinnia made you be there, yeah.

>stop calling it a good plan when the execution ruined it.
How was it ruined? How did Zinnia ruin her plan? How does a plan to save the world that does save the world get ruined?

>Second, if Zinnia was open and they tried her plan first, and it worked as intended, they wouldn't have needed to teleport the meteor, thus saving everyone
I havent played ORAS since release, but didnt she stop Devon nearing their execution?

>nd wanted a happier ending for the future than the one originally written
Exactly my point.

>>25086428
You are faced with a world-ending meteor moving straight towards you. You can:

A) Warp it anywhere else in the vast emptiness of space where it will do no harm.
B) Try to summon a dragon from a 3000 year old story to smash it headlong and hope the pieces don't kill everyone, with no guarantee of being able to summon or control the dragon, or even that the dragon is still powerful enough to do the job.

>>25086524
Try the dragon. It's better than letting it wreak havoc on another world lacking either option.

>>25086512
>How was it ruined? How did Zinnia ruin her plan? How does a plan to save the world that does save the world get ruined?
Because the thing that ended up saving the world wasn't her plan at all. She thought she could whistle up Rayquaza and it would obey her every command and go Mega and smash the rock.

What actually happened:
>Barely summons Rayray
>It doesn't give a shit about her
>Couldn't go Mega if it tried

That's where her plan ended. Everything after that point was the protagonist being extremely fortunate that they had a magical bag capable of holding entire meteorites and space suits.

>>25086512
>the only exception being that Brendan or May used Rayquaza instead of her.

That's a pretty big fucking exception. What if you never showed up to the tower? At no point did Zinnia say "you know we might need you," she just brings you there to watch her since you support her due to the game forcing you to.

>she doesnt even consider Devon's plan to be a valid course of action.

Because she's fucking awful like that. How the hell can you consider "no fuck everyone's plan that isn't mine! I don't care if my plan might not work, we gotta protect those people that we don't know for sure exist!" a good character? You keep saying she was in the right for destroying the alternative because her plan worked by will of a fluke, a fluke she didn't at any point consider being necessary and was only fulfilled by luck and railroading (since you don't have any choice but to side with her and go to the Sky Pillar). She wasn't. Risking the entire world end because someone's plan isn't 100% ideal is not being in the right, at all. She had no proof that it worked, and as I have repeatedly stated, it didn't work as she intended, the fact that the world was saved by her plan was a fluke of coincidence lining up properly.

>>25086552
If you honestly think that, you're as dumb as Zinnia. I regret going back into this conversation.

>>25086552
Zinna pls hush your contrarian whore mouth. Just let them teleport it to the other side of earth and let it zoom away.

>>25086524
You forgot the part where teleporting on that size was a huge risk to begin as it was entirely experimental and that Ray not only is the protector of the region that comes out in times of need but had previously destroyed a meteor.

Both ideas were retarded but ultimately there's more reliability in Ray than the warp tech especially when you come from a clan directly tied to it that knows the methods of summoning it. That said, she shouldn't have removed the other option entirely.

>>25085092
That's because the writing is usually terrible. And yes, that includes N.

>>25084526
old enough to clap, old enough to fap

>>25085863
>but she didnt mess up anything, only her own expectations.

What expectations? Her saving Hoenn? If the player character wasn't with her, the whole region would've been destroyed.

>I didnt say she's a complex character, just one of the closest thing to that this franchise has.

What is N?

A universe is a universe, you can't have more than one universe.

>>25086638
>What is N?
Not complex but had better lines.

>>25086645
Equal and opposite reaction my friend.
Either way pokemon has multiple worlds anyway.

>>25086582
>>25086594
You're only telling us that you personally would let others die rather than yourself
You must be eighteen to peruse this site

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>>25086645
By definition of the word you're right, what we once considered our universe is just a bubble alongside others in the true universe

>>25085641
>in the end she has to accept she's not the chosen one, it's the player.

I think that concept may not actually be there in her character, I dunno, I felt like she too quickly accepted the player as being "the one." Her only concern at first was that she couldn't save the world with rayquaza, but when it turns out you have a meteorite for it, she basically just says "oh ok, here let me just battle you while you have rayquaza to make sure you're strong enough." and that's it.

If anything, all the shit she did just hindered the player in the end. The only useful thing she ever did was teach your rayquaza dragon ascent.

>>25086676
I can admire someone willing to sacrifice themselves to save the life of a stranger, though I wouldn't do so myself (and it isn't edgy to think that no matter how many times you call me underage; I'd probably do it for a family member or a close friend at least).

Zinnia isn't doing that, though. She is sacrificing herself and THE REST OF THE WORLD to save people that we don't even know exist. You can sacrifice yourself, fine, but don't sacrifice other people without their permission. If you think it's okay to kill other people to save the lives of different people I don't even know how to express my exasperation.

And Zinnia never at any point, not before smashing the device and not after, proved that this parallel dimension actually existed. She might as well have been saying "if we use that device all the pixie people who live in the trees will die!" and it would've had the same effect because she presented no proof.

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>>25086695
This is a scan of the background microwaves from our universe, they say the spots are where we touch other bubbles

>>25086732
Spooky. I wonder what it would be like in those areas.

>>25086723
>She is sacrificing herself and THE REST OF THE WORLD to save people that we don't even know exist.
Correction, she's sacrificing the world to save people only she and her clan knows exists.

>>25086752
Not him but I imagine there would be some crazy physics there.

>>25086723
>probably do it for a family member or a close friends
>If you think it's okay to kill other people to save the lives of different people I don't even know how to express my exasperation
Yeah the distinction between monkeys is a little fucked up either way

But sure we're talking about saving a planet of people that already know they will die vs anything else that may be coming up

>>25086723
>You can sacrifice yourself, fine, but don't sacrifice other people without their permission.
So what you're saying is that the warp option was morally wrong because it's sacrificing people without their permission or even a warning at that.

>>25086788
We don't even fucking know if they exist. And in the case where it's true, it's more like "do I let my country and all its inhabitants be murdered or do I do so to another country to save my own," in which case I'd vote for saving my own country. It's not morally perfect but it's the better option of the two for me and my people.

>>25086780
Could you rephrase your post? Everything you wrote sounds like a non-sequitur.

>>25086723
>>25086732

The Great Silence is terrifying. The fact the universe is so massive that in all probability it should be teeming with life just like our own, yet we barely receive any signals

>>25086808
Eh, it doesn't bother me, I think we can make the assumption that there are others out there but they're too far away for us to ever notice their existence. Also consider how different evolution probably is for them, it's possible that they have a completely process of thought and completely different senses than ours, we probably couldn't communicate them if we tried even if we did find someone. It's a moot point overall.

>>25086808
There's actually a lot good and in-depth answers to the Fermi Paradox. Chilling stuff too. It's way too much info to condense in a single post. I'd look it up if I were you.

>>25086806
You mean nonsense? Maybe we have a different sense of sense. Different beliefs. I believe we are monkeys that convinced ourselves of otherwise, that we are greater than the rest of life because we can do more than live. The only thing the human animal has going is the "knowledge" that it will die. The belief. Even though belief fueled their upbringing. They base all of society on the belief in death. They want you to believe it too
Illuminate

>>25086806
>We don't even fucking know if they exist.
Except for Zinnia, her clan and possibly AZ.

In any case you would rather go for the option of having a slim chance of removing the meteor and placing it on someone else instead of the equally slim chance of destroying or and saving both?

>>25086818
Shit man you just reminded me
https://youtu.be/7tScAyNaRdQ

>>25086844

Why do you fucking Zinnia buttboys make it sound like the Link Cable plan was some slim shot?

They launched a rocket successfully before they were going to shoot the portal rocket.

The teleportation technology is 100% proven to work. You even experience it in-game, and have since Gen 1.

But it's all a "slim hope?" Stop lying. Zinnia didn't even tell anyone about her dragon plan. She just smashed that shit and danced away.

Only the mentally ill defend this.

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>>25086844
>Except for Zinnia

Who has NO PROOF. If a madman came up to me and started rambling about shit like parallel universes with no proof and told me I had to do some crazy shit to save the lives of the people in them why would I believe them?

We weren't given any hints that the Link Cable would fail, and this isn't a "one or the other" situation. You can try the dragon, and if the dragon fails then use the Link Cable. There was nothing forcing them to fire the Link Cable device at the meteor the second it got finished, and if Zinnia was upfront from the start she probably could've had extra time to wake Rayquaza and give a better confirmation of whether her plan was going to work or not instead of having to do it at the last second. If you can't save both dimensions, then you still have the backup plan of saving your own, and the fact that she destroyed it for the sake of "don't worry guys because my plan is totally gonna work!" makes her an idiot and a radical.

>>25086878
You mean teleporting little balls, and we're seriously debating them shooting it out of your link cable port? Would you really have wanted that?
>>25086888
So you're mad a character has flaws now?

>>25086901
She has severe flaws, ones that would make her a well-intentioned VILLAIN in most works, yet she's portrayed as the de facto good guy in the situation despite her fucking everything up and only not dooming the world by fluke, as has been explained in great detail in this thread by several people. I think being a horrible person with severe flaws who is treated as great by the narrative is a symptom of being a Mary Sue, we're just missing the self-insert part of the trait.

>>25086878
Who knows how many that rocket killed?
>spurred the creation of Team Rocket

>>25086910
First of all is about fucking time we move past Good guys and Bad Guys Jesus Christ
Now let me read the rest

>>25086910
>treated as great
Does she have a statue or something?

>>25086927
You're calling it edgy to have a morally ambiguous work where you can't make the most idealistic choice, and NOW you want to move into "okay guys let's stop talking about good guys and bad guys, there's some moral ambiguity here we can't all be idealistic here?"

>>25086939
Well killing yourself is always the best option, if I've learned anything lately

>>25086946
Making suicide threats isn't making your argument better.

>>25086939
I meant in pokémon in general, but I was kinda wrong since the E4 aren't necessarily bad guys. I just want a new kind of story that isn't about evil teams, we were talking about a relationship driven game earlier but they will never that since they expect you to have kids for real. My kid would be six if I had mated at twenty, she would have gotten XY the same as I had gotten Red, same age. In some parallel universe she did

>>25086878
>They launched a rocket successfully before they were going to shoot the portal rocket.
They were unsure about the power necessary to control it anon and it was completely untested on that scale. You can't compare a rocket launch to a rocket launch that's supposed to rip a hole In reality.

They were placing all of their hopes on a theory that might not even hold true.

>>25086988

Yes but they had scientific proof behind it.

Zinnia had a legend and literally just some shit she guessed.

>>25086888
>Who has NO PROOF.
Her clan has literally been monitoring the other hoenn for generations. Did you not pay attention?

>>25086971
I'm only saying any adult knows to waste the known instead of risking the unknown, not that I am implying you are underage anymore than I implyied anything between you and I.

>>25087004
And the pope has been talking with God for millenia.

>inb4 fedora tipping

I'm saying don't start a nuclear war or other situation that would destroy the world just because someone like the pope says to.

>>25087001
So you would take scientific proof and untested technology over a legend that was confirmed true right before your very eyes prior to those events?

You are the hero that saved the planet from half of the disaster contained within the legend mind you.

>>25087004

Nowhere in the game does it say her clan was "monitoring the other Hoenn" chucklefuck. Where in the game does Zinnia's clan have a magic spyglass that lets them see into Gen 3? You are making shit up now.

Also if they DID have that, how come they never told anyone that alternate dimensions exist so all the scientists were just flabbergasted going "the fuck is this slut saying?" because alternate worlds were incomprehensible to them? How come they had knowledge of Mega Fug and the meteor and just sat on that shit for thousands of years?

Bad writing, that's why.

Conclusion: I'd fuck Zinnia

>>25087025
>Nowhere in the game does it say her clan was "monitoring the other Hoenn" chucklefuck.
Literally right after she takes the dimensional shifter from the admin you fight.
Did you even play the game?

>>25084610
What if all cannon Pokemon games are QPU aligned and call non-cannon/spin-offs were misaligned?

>>25087025
>Also if they DID have that, how come they never told anyone that alternate dimensions exist so all the scientists were just flabbergasted going "the fuck is this slut saying?" because alternate worlds were incomprehensible to them? How come they had knowledge of Mega Fug and the meteor and just sat on that shit for thousands of years?
Because people tend to invade, take over or destroy the things they don't understand or pose a risk to them.
Just look at how many times the pokemon world has been put at risk already.

>reminder that Zinnia joined TM/TA and helped resurrect Groundon/Kyogre just to summon Rayquaza.

>>25086676
Listen here you dense nigger. I'm saying they should teleport it to the other side of earth in THIS universe. Literally no downside.

>>25087287
Man, physics crush dreams every time
Look I don't know how big or how fast, but that wouldn't have been safe with the gravity and shit

>>25087287
They had no control over the destination.

>>25087220
Was rayquaza summon more important than just stopping a meteor?

>>25085541
Rampant shitposting.

>>25087359
Would it matter because all of Hoenn would've drowned or been burnt to a crisp before that meteor came.

>>25087493
Not if Rayquaza came and stopped them.

I mean her plan worked perfectly with no complications in the Delta Episode, I'm sure the same would happen here.

>>25087509
>Not if Rayquaza came and stopped them.
Was it supposed to come when both Groundon AND Kyogre are fighting?

>I mean her plan worked perfectly with no complications
Expect for part where she couldn't get Rayquaza to Mega-evolve.

>>25087955
Anon, that second line you quoted was sarcasm.

>12 HOURS

>>25084454
I'd fuck Zinnia with the force of a billion Mega Rayquazas.

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anyone feel like crying at the end of the Delta Episode? The whole bit about Zinnia's daughter, and the draconid elder telling her "it's time to rest," over and over again? it felt very tragic

>>25084464
What sort of game would pokehumans be?

I heard that if you bike into a wall on the biking bridge for 12 hours your home updates into the Pokémon world and Pokémon become real!

>>25085593

>but I expect her to be back anyway

With how much the Japanese fans(aka people Gamefreak actually listens to) utterly hate her, the odds are against Zinnia ever coming back.

>>25093786
I'm telling you man, it's going to be a Lightning scenario as long as Ohmori's around.

I have basically been completely ignoring everything Pokemon related since a few months after XY came out, and I've only just in the past two weeks gotten around to playing ORAS.

-What is this backstory people are talking about? Is Aster really Zinnia's child somehow?
-Why the hell did Zinnia even help Team Aqua/Magma resurrect Kyrogre/Groudon if should could just summon Rayquaza in the first place?

I do agree that Zinnia and everything about the Delta episode was poorly done. The Looker sidestory from XY was similarly disappointing; I love the idea of Pokemon finally doing something that doesn't involve the usual Pokemon League/Team whatever setup, but Gamefreak just seems incapable of actually writing anything else.

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>>25093929

In the game Zinnia calls Aster her daughter. This makes her age really confusing and also makes her seem mentally retarded. It confused many people. Later it was clarified that Aster was the original dragonborn or whatever the fuck, but then she died and Zinnia had to take up the mantle, and she's all buttblasted because she was gay for Aster and took her death really hard, hence naming Whismur after her. None of this is even hinted at in-game, thus making it super shitty writing.

Zinnia wanted everything to get all fucked up to summon Fug. Fug did not appear. Turns out she could summon Fug without having to do all that anyway. Ultimately it was due to shitty writing, they wanted to have Zinnia have a deeper involvement in the plot so she doesn't seem like she came out of nowhere. It failed and it just makes her seem like more of a cunt.

Die Zinnia die.

>>25094027
Thanks, that's about what I thought.

At least she's cute, there's always that.

>all this over a meme thread about a meme character referencing a meme

>>25095900
Nice meme number

>>25084454
She was able to break that science device with only a half A press

the multiverse shit was the stupidest fucking thing ever

When's Frontier DLC?
When's XY patched for ORAS compatibility?
When's Delta Emerald/Z?

>>25084454
Zinnia was the best thing to come out of ORAS.

Zinnia is only fit to eat my vomit

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>>25090285
No doubt about that. This might as well be every thread in by default.