why was it banned again? it's slow as shit and you have

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why was it banned again?

it's frail as shit and you have to be a massive scrub in order to get done by air slash

>>24961803
The Sub Punch set, I think. It's been a long time since it's been banned.

>>24961803
You never played against it, did you?
With Huge Power, Sucker Punch is a 160 Base Power priority attack, coming from a Pokemon with respectable attack stat.

>>24961825
scrub confirmed

muh 50/50s

>>24961803
>have to be a massive scrub in order to get done by sucker punch
or actually try to attack Mega Mawile, you tard

Mega Mawile is fully countered by Mega Aggron
Pokemon with perfectly reliable counters should never be banned IMO.

>>24961868
have fun wasting your mega for aggron in OU or ubers.

>>24961885
You see, this is the reason pokemon like M-Mawile get banned. You only use top pokemon conducive to operating against a very specific set of other top pokemon and wonder why some outlier is able to sneak in and wipe away your shitty hyper-offense team. And even though options exist for it, you simply refuse to use them, and ban the problem instead to keep "muh meta" rolling strong.

>>24961908
if you are basically forced to use a certain mega to counter another certain mega, that IS banworthy

Rocky Helmet suicune beats M-Mawile so hard it's not even funny. And before someone says so it is not an obscure pick.

>>24961908
>have to use a pokemon that beyond countering a single OU pokemon is dead weight
>you're basically playing 5v6 if your opponent doesn't have Mawile
>especially bad because it locks you out of using other megas

>>24961933
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 181-214 (44.8 - 52.9%) -- 27.3% chance to 2HKO
>becomes 100% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
>Gets 2HKOed by standard move
>Counter
kek

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>>24961933
wow that's not obscure at all
btw suicune's 64 in usage, right below meloetta and mandibuzz

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Why was it banned again?

it's predictable as shit and you have to be a massive scrub in order to get done by shadow ball

>>24961954
this but unironically

aegislash dindu nuffin

>>24961803
The whole "as strong as fully invested 260 base attack" thing as well as 50/125/95 bulk with Intimidate may have something to do with it

>>24961868
>252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Focus Punch vs. 252 HP / 16+ Def Filter Mega Aggron: 199-235 (57.8 - 68.3%)
Right.

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Why was it banned again?

It's predictable as shit and you have to be a massive scrub in order to get done by Dragon Ascent.

As for counters, you can just always run fully physical defensive Fairy Arceus - and youre fine!

>>24961985
>>252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Focus Punch vs. 252 HP / 16+ Def Filter Mega Aggron: 199-235 (57.8 - 68.3%)
>Right.
dont forget it will also KO with just Superpower after SR and the second switch in

and, even more important: it will fvcking OHKO the first time you switch Vanilla Aggron in, if it predicts right!

counter, my ass

I've given up on caring about Smogon this gen.

>>24962035
you cared enough to shitpost

I always used Will-O-Wisp with Sableye, even with Aegi. Seriously, what was the problem? I like using stallmons

>>24962127
Aegislash doesn't get wow.

>>24961885
>>24961939
>wasting your mega
>dead weight
>mega-aggron
You niggers don't know just how good mega-aggron really is.

>>24962556
>y-you just don't know how to use it!

typical shitter excuse

It gets fully countered by agility shedinja
>use agility once
>shadow sneak to victory

>>24962633
Or you could use will o wisp and then nothing else.

>>24961825
Git fucking gud

>>24962600
>I d-don't know what I'm talking about so I'll just greentext! T-that'll show him
No, you just don't know what you're talking about at all. It's certainly not perfect, but a reliable counter to a large amount of common threats. It's especially effective against smogonbird, and in general is great on stall. If you play Trick Room it's absolutely devastating, but you don't even need that to wreck shit with it.

>>24961803

It completely fucked over offensive teams

There are three playstyles in singles; Hyper Offense, Balance, and Stall

Variety is very important, so when a Pokemon fucks over an entire playstyle, it gets banned

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>>24962633
>agility shedinja

>anything used will-o-wisp
>mega mawile is now shit and useless since the attack stat is all it have

See? It's easy as hell to hard counter Mega Mawile. Smogon just don't know how to use this simple and easy thing called "thinking".

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>>24961868

>Wasting your mega slot on a wall with no recovery

>>24962748

le substitute faec

>>24962753
>no recovery
>what is rest

>>24962748
thats sarcasm, right?

>>24961815
>Snover used Ice Shard!
into PU it goes X^D

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>>24962765
>implying rest mega aggron is a viable pokemon in 2016 ou

>>24961803
Hard countered by Swagger / W-o-W Shedinja :^)

>>24962772
If you run with toxic, it is since a good chunk of pokemon struggle to take out a full HP aggron in time, or will either be damaged enough for an easy revenge kill by toxic.

>>24962765
Not reliable.

>>24962639
But it's behind a sub.

>>24962915
If it used sub, you already won if you have a brain because it lost 25% of its health as a pokemon that already had little HP to begin with. Only smogonshitters can't take advantage of that.

>>24962556

Mega aggron is shit. Stfu

Lrn2burn fuckin loser

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>>24963058
>assblasted smogonfags mad because Talonflame can't handle THE WALL

>>24962652
>There are three playstyles in singles; Hyper Offense, Balance, and Stall
Wrong.
Offense is a blanket term for anything that's more offensive than Balance. It comes in a lot of variants, including niche ones. Hyper Offense is a term for teams that have zero defensive Pokemon, period, and it also comes in several sub-variants. Standard offense always carries one defensive or semi-defensive gluemon and that's what you usually see these days.
Balance has three defensive Pokemon. When it has four, it's called Fat/Bulky Balance. When it has five, it's called Semi-Stall.
Stall has no variety. It's a completely reactionary playstyle whose teams are molded by the metagame around it.
tl;dr stop throwing the term hyper offense out of context like a scrub

>>24963077
Better have dragon tail or I could just set up on you.

>>24963217
After lots of playing with it, I've concluded dragon tail is absolutely shit for mega aggron. It's a better choice to run with roar if you really need it since the number one thing that's going to fuck him over is a bulky sub-user.

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>>24963077

Damn right, Aggron is a fucking beast on my team. These faggots also don't see Aggron makes up his lack of recovery outside of rest with great utility in Thunder-wave, stealth rock, Toxic, and Roar.

>>24963248
b-b-but anon! muh taunt on everything :(
Dont you know, youhave to make sure you can phaze the 2 people who use a shitty move like Taunt on more than one thing

>Swagger was banned
>Stealth rocks isn't

>>24961821
SubPunch, Fire Fang, immunity to toxic, and SubFocus Punch.

not to mention it still has Swords Dance

>>24963252
I actually have run into taunt a decent amount of times. Only problem for them is, most of the things that bother to run taunt isn't something I'd need to have to switch out on, so they just loose a turn to an earthquake or heavy slam. The defense is obviously the main attraction with mega aggron, but people forget it's a pretty fucking strong attacker too.

>>24963272
Well to be fair you posted Mega Aggron specifically in response to Talonflame, and Bulk up/acrobatics/taunt/roost is a really fucking common set that despite acrobatics' low damage output is going to win in the end unless you have stone edge too.

>>24961803
I'm new to Pokemon on the 3DS. What is this, why was it banned, and by whom?

>>24963249

>what is taunt?

>>24963057
>that already had little HP to begin with
So then it doesnt really matter unless youre retarded and using a physical attack.

>>24963074
Lrn2sub fuckin loser

>>24962646
in the wrong situation, however, Aggron cannot switch in on Tflame.

>+2 252 Atk Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 16+ Def Filter Mega Aggron: 184-217 (53.4 - 63%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Youre better off not mega evolving actually. the extra defense isnt worth taking 75% more damage

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>>24963291

>what is every single move in the game
>what is being prepared for each and every one.

>>24963283

>Smogonfags can't adapt

They adapted to Mega Metagross and Hoopa-U

>>24963296
Except that Mega aggron is switching in the turn that Talonflame swords dances, so it's only taking 1 +2 attack.

>>24963320
Or if TFlame boosted and took something out first... ? And if Aggron isnt carrying a rock move it cant do anything to Tflame in 2 turns.

Its a counter, yes, but only if you have a moveset that counters every single possible Talonflame

>>24963283
>VGC
>ever
>especially in CURRENT YEAR

>>24963283
VGC is so stale though
every match is the same 4 pokes, with some variation in the last two mons

>all these aggronfags pretending their mon is cool because it looks cool

>>24963077

Yeah, well too bad aggron is garbage

>>24963283
>VGC
le fug moondeer meta XDDDDDDDDDD

What exactly is the SubPunch set? Focus Punch/Substitute/Sucker Punch/Fire Fang wih 252 HP/252 Atk/4 Speed?

>>24963590
I think Focus Punch/Substitute/Iron Head/Play Rough

>>24961803
muh 50/50

>>24963288
They are not banned in game. They are banned by an austistic community that play Pokemon competivive like an e-sport and shit.

No true counters defensively, one of the best typings in the game, good bulk, strong priority, etc.

>>24965949

What about M-Lucario? Or Noivern? Shit, Infiltrator Noivern wrecks M-Mawile. People just don't use it because >muh brave bird of flames

>>24965960
Since you are a retard I will lay this out for you.

Counter: Can switch in on any of its moves and either force it out, or KO it.
Check: Can come in on a free switch (IE after you lose a mon) and force it out or kill it.

Those two are checks (not even good ones) but not counters.
Learn the fucking difference, the only counter to mawile is arcanine, and even then, mawile can use rock slide.

>>24961803
That thing was broken af lmao

>>24964537
that was swagplay which was actually complete eblolashit cancer

>>24963590
there was a few speed EVs to outspeed something. That meta is ancient history I can't remember.

>>24966083
Camerupt is a better counter.

>Aegislash and M Mawile get banned
>Always used Garchomp to tear them a new asshole because of how terribly predictable they were

Why is Smogon full of autists?

>>24966118
camerupt has the same bulk as greninja

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>>24966118
>Camerupt
No it was not.

>>24966120
Only autists won't read the thread, anon.

>>24961803
why do you care about meme rules made by kids who are mostly garbage at the game?

>>24966089
Swagplay wasn't 50/50. M. Mawile's subpunch set is pure 50/50.

>>24966120
Garchomp was decent, there were other pokemon that did a better job at tearing them up.
>Why is Smogon full of autists?
Because you were stuck in ELO hell

>>24966208
>Swagplay wasn't 50/50
What? That was the first that argument was thrown around, It wasn't 50/50 if you manage to paralyze.
>M. Mawile's subpunch set is pure 50/50
No that set was pretty straightforward and hit like a truck.

>>24966220
Or not subpunch, but SD/PR/SP/FP I think

>>24966226
Yes, I can't deny that set forced 50/50s although I disagreed back then. I remember it was either get the check in on the SP miss or get blown the fuck out.

>>24961825
>Talonflame

>>24966314
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 163-192 (45.2 - 53.3%) -- 36.3% chance to 2HKO

How in the hell are you supposed to use Mega Mawile in ubers? Yeah opportunity cost, but Mawile's my fave mon, so it's a sin to me to not use it at its best

>>24966710
Intimidate mega with passable bulk. It's pretty shit in ubers lad.

>>24966722

Only because of Primal Groudon

>>24966208

Aww poor guy pissed off people are talking about smogon

>>24966731
Yeah.

This doesn't make it not shit. It's the equivalent of being weak to normal before megamon was banned.

>Talonflame used Flare Blitz
>It's super effective
>Mega Mawile fainted

It's easy to counter M-Mawile. Git gud.

>>24966756

I swear some of y'all are becoming like vegans.
>Imagine two meat-eaters discussing their favorite places to eat at and then some vegan comes along saying "I'm vegan, you guys aren't allowed to talk about this". That's literally how some of u autists sound like. Kek

>>24966783

Never heard of sucker punch or the concept of being pressured by rocks have you. Poor guy

>>24966786
what? Who's stopping you talking about anything. I'm sorry you're bro is shit.

Better than fucking reshiram.

>>24966790
Never heard of Sucker Punch being unspammable and the reality that it is easy to predict when Sucker Punch is being used. Poor guy

>>24966792

Wait, what's shit? What are we talking about here

>>24962646
Dude I'm playing in spl and already have another trophy, and I can guarantee you that aggron is complete garbage in this tier.

>>24966805
>b-but it can counter m-mawile
>except it runs a fighting move
>which it often does
>then youre cucked
>but well, you used mega aggron in ou.

>>24966795

Well if talonflame(specifically that kind of talonflame) is your only answer to mega mawile, then I feel sorry for you buddy. It's ok tho, you can go ahead and pretend that's a reliable answer

>>24966120

Remember when Garchomp was an aegislash, mega mawile counter? Yeah, me neither.

>>24962127
>STILL thinking Aegislash was dangerous for its special attack

>>24962646
>It's certainly not perfect
Trashed.
Welcome to OU. Now get the fuck out.

>>24966840
One day people will know the difference between a check and a counter, today is not that day sadly. Maybe one day people will know what the difference between a soft and hard counter is too.

>>24966956
But it was. Coupled with its attack, support and defence. :^)

>>24966840
by definition of those guys, anything that has a resistance to a STAB or a super effective attack counters it

as such, talonflame & megaggron counter mawile
garchomp counters aegislash
electrivire counters kyogre

etc.

>>24966722
I know it sucks, but it's the only singles option by smogon standards

>>24966956

Yes it was, and if you don't, you didn't play OU.

>>24966956
>Yes it was, and if you don't, you didn't play OU.
>>24966956
>>STILL thinking Aegislash was dangerous for its special attack

formulating it like that is really a bit mistaken.
aegislash was feared for its special attack amongst other traits (!), such as typing with a lot of resistances, versatile offense, unique mechanics (kings shield & form change).

so was aegislash feared for its special attack? yes, it was.
would it be feared if it had only (!) its special attack? no.

>>24961838
>What is burn

>Thundurus used Will-O-Wisp
>Mawile is burned and loses half of its attack power

There's your counter Smogon, now unban based Mega Mawile.

Can someone tell me why the hell vanilla Blaziken is still banned?

>>24967558
because smogon doesn't like complex bans (even though chatter and swagger are banned because circular logic)

>>24967558
Can someone tell me why Darkrai without Dark Void is still banned?

I miss Greninja. Was Greninja banned because it shit on balance teams too much, because I really liked how unpredictable its movesets were. I like having pokemon with more than 2 movesets.

Either way, I never really had a problem with Greninja, and it seemed pretty fair to me. I always just revenge killed it or sent in Porygon-2 to wall it and throw around Thunder Waves. Why did they ban it?

>>24967854
>le "I never had a problem with it" argument

Every time I see a thread like this I just think "why is this such a problem. I see this all the time" and then I remember that it's a singles thread.

>>24967446
>Thundrus
>counter
Since when can a Thundrus switch in on an attack from a Mega Mawile?

>>24961803
Because Smogon is faggotry

>>24967857
But I can't even really understand how someone CAN have a problem with it. Yeah, it's good, but all you really need to do is hit it back. Can't switch in on it? There's tons of shit that's nearly impossible to switch in on, like Charizard-X, Mega Medicham, and Kyurem-B. You think it's too fast? Mega Lopunny is faster, and is just as hard to switch in on. Seriously, where's the problem here?

>>24968039
The point is charizard x still does have switchins. Greninja had several of them too, most notably clefable and some other bulky steels and fairies. With the addition of gunk shot and low kick it pretty much had no switchins at all, and was thus banned

>>24968095
What OU pokemon can switch in on mixed Kyurem, though? What can switch in on Medicham? Hell, even Landorus-T can't even switch in on Medicham since it still OHKO's with Ice Punch even after the Intimidate drop.

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>>24967558
>>24967668
>>24967691
>back in gen 4 days
>smogon bans garchomp because sand veil + yachechomp didn't have any reliable counters
>just bans the whole mon because just banning yache on chomp would be too complex
>shortly after, latias drops from ubers to OU but soul dew latias remains banned
>there remain a host of pokemon who are banned because of one ability they have when they could just ban the use of the ability itself
>half the time they say a complex ban would be too difficult and the other half they have no issues making complex bans like no swagger + foul play at the same time

>>24968125
Not to mention the complicated mess of the baton pass clause.

>>24968116
>kyurem
quagsire
>medicham
sableye

more than likely others as well but fuck if im going through the pokedex for it

>>24968125
>>shortly after, latias drops from ubers to OU but soul dew latias remains banned

soul dew as a whole is banned. That's not complex.

>>there remain a host of pokemon who are banned because of one ability they have when they could just ban the use of the ability itself
Like what? Speed Boost and Protean aren't inherently OP so banning the entire ability is stupid. Banning the specific ability on the specific Pokemon is complex.

>>24968136
clefable for both, just don't be a tard and know when cham is going to zen headbutt and not hjk

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>>24968142
>unbanning blaze blaziken and torrent greninja is too complex for smogon to implement
>meanwhile at swagplay and BP bans

>>24968136
Nobody but stallfags use Quagsire in OU. name something COMMON that's actually in the tier that can switch in on it.

I'll give you Sableye, though. However, you don't see people putting Sableye on teams JUST to deal with Mega Medicham. So clearly, being almost impossible to switch in on isn't really that big a deal. Greninja never should've been banned.

>>24968161
>>unbanning blaze blaziken and torrent greninja is too complex for smogon to implement
yes because then they have to consider every single pokemon in every single tier to drop down just because they have one ability that's too good. You can't just make an exception for "M-MUH BRO STARTER POKEMON"

Swagplay and Baton Pass are clauses so they're universal. The rules in the clauses themselves may be a bit more complicated than previous clauses but they don't open a retarded can of worms like unbanning specific abilities on specific Pokemon do.

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>>24968174
>your valid example doesn't count!

>>24968174
medicham didn't and still doesn't see the near-overpowering usage that ninja did in its prime

>>24968178
>yes because then they have to consider every single pokemon in every single tier to drop down
kind of like the recent separation of pokemon who can mega evolve when you use them in a team without a megastone???
clearly banning the combination of a certain pokemon with a certain ability is too hard to implement
please keep strawmanning though, I've never used blaziken or greninja but the idea that it'd be too hard to unban a pokemon if it uses a certain ability is horseshit of the highest degree

>>24968144
Most Kyurem run Iron Head now. Clefable can't do shit since it doesn't oustspeed and is 1 or 2 hit KO's y Iron head. Standard set for Kyurem right now is:

Kyurem-Black @ Life Orb
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 104 Atk / 252 SpA / 152 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power
- Outrage
- Iron Head

2HKO's Chansey with Outrage, OHKO's Clefable with Iron Head. No known switch-ins, as far as I know.

>>24968174
Being impossible to switch into on its own isn't what pushed gren over the line. For instance, rampardos is shit while hitting like a truck.

No, gren got banned for a combination of its wallbreaking prowess, speed, coverage and shitting on any playstyle that wasn't stall.

>>24968182
You don't see Quagsire on Balance teams or Offense teams the way you see shit like Sableye and Landorus, though. You only see them on dedicated Stall teams, which are rare. If Quagsire were a valid example, it would be at least in UU by usage.

>>24968203
Grininja shit on stall too, though. The Taunt and Spikes set wrecked stall's shit if they thought it was just a standard ordinary Greninja.

>>24968193
They're banning the forme (or the item, depending on how you want to look at it). It's still not complex. It's not any different from putting Kyurem and Kyurem-B in different tiers.

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>>24968219
Gyarados is UU. If you have Gyarados holding a megastone, it's OU.
The item isn't banned, it's just useable in a seperate tier. Why couldn't they do the same for abilities, exactly? I'm not asking for Smogon's personal definition on what makes a ban simple or complex. You say that changing a tier based on a pokemon's ability opens a massive can of worms? I'd say we're only one step away from that with the aforementioned mega change.

>>24968231
>Why couldn't they do the same for abilities, exactly?

Because EVERY Pokemon has an ability, and some of them share abilities, while not every Pokemon can mega evolve and even then each mega evolution is specific to that Pokemon. The abilities by themselves aren't broken. Why the fuck should I not be allowed to use Protean Kecleon in OU just because it's broken on Greninja? Or I can't use Speed Boost Sharpedo in UU just because it's broken on Blaziken? That doesn't make any sense. It makes more sense to just ban Greninja and Blaziken because it's less restrictive for other Pokemon. Meanwhile there's nothing complex about treating Mega Evolutions as formes.

>>24968270
>it's less restrictive for other pokemon
it's less work for smogon*

>>24968231
Are you suggesting to expand the tiering to treat each Pokemon+Ability combination separately? As in, Cute Charm Clefable, Magic Guard Clefable and Unaware Clefable are now tiered separately?
No, it's not a difficult concept to implement. But nobody other than you would ever want this to happen, so it won't.

>>24968039
>>24968116
>>24968136
wrong btw lol Quagsire gets downed by Ice Beam
>>24968174
I used it on my Balance team
>>24968194

There are 7 things that can switch into the common variants of Kyurem-B and heal off.

Avalugg
Mega Scizor
Mega Slowbro
Cresselia
Porygon2
Umbreon
Mew

Even then, they have to run certain spreads. I didn't include things like Mega Audino or Mega Sableye because those are rolls to be 2HKO'd.

Scizor is the most prevalent answer, which is why some Kyurem-B pack HP Fire for it.