Dota 2

>>12606
because anything thats popular equals bad.
also most of the people who hate it never even played it or went past 15hs

>>12606
because theres no sejuani clone

>>12606
Because it's really fucking hard to get into. I love it, but it took me several hundred hours to even somewhat "get" Dota.

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Last hitting minions is the worst gameplay mechanic ever invented

>>12609
Okay that makes sense, the learning curve is pretty crushing.

Because there's not enough lore.

The community is toxic and the game is difficult to get into. That being said, 2k hrs in and I really wish I could find a more reliably enjoyable game

Because they are not good at it
Everyone who played dota 1 is into dota 2.

jungle isn't a dedicated role like it is in league. literally the only thing stopping me.

>>12615
>roles and lanes should be dedicated
get out

>>12614
2k hours into Dota 2.
I hate it.

>>12615
>jungle shitters are not playing
fucking great.

it takes too much effort to keep playing imo. you need to read about changes and feel them to know what's good and what isn't, as well as watching streams or competitive games every once in a while. way too high upkeep imo. also the matches take too long, if you have like 2 hours to game a day or something, you can barely squeeze one game in

i played it for more than 5k hours (not counting time spent on twitch, other accounts etc) but it's way too much of a burden. at this point i only keep going back out of habit/addiction

Despite having 1.5k+ hours on it, it causes me physical and emotional pain to play it. I genuinely doubt that anyone who has more than 500 hours can say that they enjoy it.

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>>12619
the matches lasting too long is actually why i quit, i still watch tournaments from time to time, and read patch notes to kind of have a grasp on stuff when i watch the streams, but that's about as much as i want to commit to the game

>>12620
>1.5k
fuck off newbie.

>>12617
I do too, but then I play a game with friends that is well-fought and we win, then I can't bring myself to quit

>>12615
>He wants to PvE for the first 10 minutes while his retard teammates fuck things up

Play a roamer and go around making other people have a bad time. Why the FUCK would right clicking creeps be a dedicated fucking role?

>>12606
Literally a buzzword. Someone started calling it 'assfaggots' and now everyone on /v/ hates mobas.

Who /5kmmr/ here?

>>12624
Well desu if your team picks a hard carry like spectre I pretty much expect them to be doing exactly that while the rest of the team roams and shit

>>12606

because /v/ is casual.

¿jajaj compres los wardas idiota? FK GRINOS, XDDDD REPORTA

>>12606
Russians

>>12629
repor supor caca no wars, taco :v

>>12607
i hate it and i had 5k hours before i dropped it 2 years ago

but to be frank, the game itself is great, its the players and valve that killed it for me

>>12632
thats my problem with it. if valve cared it would be one of the best games.
Sadly valve are fucking jews who pander to reddit tards. Reborn was a mistake 7.00 was a SUPER mistake.

>>12631
CTM GRINGO NO WAR FKKKKKKKKK xD ;v jaja

>>12606
Moba community

>>12633
t. 2k mmr

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oтвaли, мyдaк, бля!
мид op фид))))))))))))))
caппopт???????

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One or two good waifus. Ugly graphics. Cyka blyats. Character's have no personality. Boring lore. Dotafags are easily triggered and really annoying on /v/ and /vg/. No Skeleton King

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Just strolling by.

>>12636
t. 3k mmr

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Community is full of trash that can't speak English and icefrog doesn't work on the game anymore

Because over half of the games or just not funny to play.

Game is only fun if you win or/and play a carry role.
So if you support the game will not be that fun, if you lose it will not be fun. Only way to have fun is to win and play a carry, which is a minority of the games you will play.

>>12615
that's the whole point of dota

you don't HAVE to do anything.

jungle if you want to
lane if you want to
roam if you want to
or just skip it all and lvl 1 rosh into lvl 3 deathpush

"anything can work"

>>12607
>Dota 2
>Popular

Game's fucking dead.

>>12644
True, I couldn't find anything but all pick last time I played it. The game has lost all the charm it used to have. The real question isn't why don't you play dota 2, it's why are you STILL playing dota 2

>>12641
>and icefrog doesn't work on the game anymore
What? Since when?

>can't play the game anymore
>instead of 10k+ hours have my shitty 6k hours
>all I have left is fapping to fem-Meepo
I want to play the game again and I also want the game to return to its 2012-2013 state

Thank god I've stopped playing this shit 2 years ago. The game itself is fun as fuck but the community is crap and it's not fun waiting 1h to lose a match that you know you will lose in the first 5 mins.

It's also not fun when the enemy can finish the game by 25~30 mins but keeps farming untill 40+ minutes 'just to be sure they can't lose' or wait almost 10 minutes for the roshan to respawn when they don't even need the aegis.

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>>12606
>rubber band game
>deep

holy shit, reminder that everyone praising this game is a 3rd worlder. Dota is DEAD in 1st world country and long burred in the west, if you talk about dota with some one there is a massive chance he is a peruvian or mexican

I enjoy Dota 2
I'm not Russian and I play for the team Instead follow the k/d score.
I-is that bad?

>>12646
rubber band patch

>>12648
Good news!

The way the comeback gold system works now is that the longer the enemy fuck about instead of winning, if you manage to kill one of them, you gain a lot of gold and experience, enough to turn the game around.

Who are your favourite comeback heroes? NP has gotta be mine.

>>12610
T. Hots player

>>12630
>t. Hillary

>>12653
Hots is growing while dota2 is shrinking

Sorry valvecuck

Because the first 300 hours of the game is learning, and your average /v/irgin doesn't have that kind of brain function required to put forth that kind of effort

To be honest, the game is most fun when you're dogshit at it. Starting Dota back in 2012 was some of the most fun i've ever had with a game.
When you become decent and then have to team up with people that are worse than you is when it gets frustrating

I play solo and it was a nightmare.

I don't care I wasted 60+ hours on Dota 2, because now I can watch Dota 2 much easier.

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A lot of the time the reasons i see boil down to things that have easy workarounds or can be ignored.

>The players all suck/are all foreign
get your own team together of people who don't

>Farming is monotonous
Then group up and fight

>Games take too long/can't concede
Strap in and man the fuck up. You almost always can come back if you play your cards right

>Too steep learning curve
Git gud

Also post Favorite hero.

>>12606
/v/ doesn't, there are pretty common dota threads here with just a few of the same memeing shitposters.

LoL is the game /v/ universally tends to hate

>>12653
Last hitting minions is boring I think most people would agree that they don't play/watch Dota because last hitting minions is so fun.

It's not Half Life 3 and lacks any sort of 'valve' identity.

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>>12615
Why the fuck would you want this?
In what way is that stopping you?

>>12659
hello steam support shill

>>12655
>no source

>>12650
you're one of the good ones

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>>12664
Not that anon but yes, Dota is losing more and more players each day.

Absolutely low chances of having fun without friends and even then, you probably will be out of luck

It's so deep and dependent on team play that I don't like playing with friends since they're not that great and I don't want to sperg on people for not dedicating themselves to a fucking videogame. I don't like playing with strangers either as everyone is devoid of personality since when things go south they regret making a connection and/or they are afraid of being stuck in low priority even if they feel like they are being helpful. It's a good game but on a regular player's level it is quite shit. Your grand reward for climbing the ladder to 9k is really long queue times and really stupid skill disparity.

>>12666
That's only half of the equation.
Are there HotS stats anywhere?

HotS's art direction looks like shit.

Awful character design.

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>>12666
I don't know, looks like it's doing OK to me

>>12670
>HotS's art direction
That's the only good thing about the game, the art direction is top tier but everything else is shit

>>12671
>graph showing 4days
really? Are you even trying?

>>12655
Meanwhile, Dota still has infinitely more players than HotS

it felt like dota/hon/lol was more fun when you were exploring the games and gaining an understanding of all the different heroes and items

playing dota 2 right now can be pretty fun but it feels like treading old ground

I wish valve made a dota 3 with a bunch of new heroes and systems and shit

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>>12606
>hadn't played since beta. no idea how many years ago
>started up again a few days again but with cheats
>pretty fun so far desu

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>>12672
>graph showing 4days

Am I getting trolled

>>12655
You wanna hear a joke?
Hots 2.0
Still better than 7.00 btw

>>12660
>I think most people would agree that they don't play/watch Dota because last hitting minions is so fun.
Just because it's not the core mechanic of the game that people point out enjoying the game for doesn't mean they hate it.

I personally think it's satisfying, but that's just me. Even if you're not in love with the act of last hitting/denying itself, what it does for zoning and resource denial is core to the game and it's not something its players want to see gone.

Your shitty opinions aren't facts, anon

>>12660
Oh yes but you know LOL has the last hit too and has millions of players so no, that's not the problem sherlock

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>>12606
>really deep game
Depth through obscurity and choice
> great replay value
Again,by depth through choice
>completely free
Just to fit valve's business model

Dota is an inheretly flawed game and genre since it's inception.
http://www.learntocounter.com/why-dota-sucks-introduction/

>>12672
>graph showing 4days
That's Blizzcucks for you

>>12680
>learntocounter
shitty insomnia clone, avoid at all costs

>>12606
Because multiplayer games are as good as their playerbase.

peruvians and russians

>>12606
LoL is more popular and normies play it. It's socially acceptable to play and it's easier to get into. It also has more/better waifus, it's sjwism that's cropped up lately is killing that though.

Dota mainly just has Russians and BRs. It's gross.

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>>12680
>>really deep game
>Depth through obscurity and choice
>> great replay value
>Again,by depth through choice

Is this not how depth and replay value works for everything? By having more content to interact in different ways making for a higher quantity of significant unique gamestates? By having a lot of choices in playstyles and characters so you can play it longer before you're forced to repeat anything? Are you retarded?

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>>12673
>free to play game has more people playing it in the worlds poorest countrys

fun fact, dota2 has as many players in the northwest as hots. Whites dont play this game

>>12606
I like the game but the community is the worst I've ever seen.

>>12606
Holy shit the animations/UI on this game are so ugly. It looks like a cashgrab Unity game compared to lol.

>>12680
>http://www.learntocounter.com/why-i-dont-like-dota-introduction/
yawn

>>12680
>obscurity
like what

>choice
>doesn't count as depth!

Also why doesn't choice count as a great thing for replay value, over 100 heroes, a bunch of items, toss in talents and any other variable like a Rubick or synergies then you can see anything happen.

>just to fit

You mean the best F2P business model in the industry? What's wrong with this?

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>>12687
>no source

>>12655
>Playing Blizzard games

Enjoy your bi-yearly patches, which will inevitably introduce new paid content.

>>12680
http://www.learntocounter.com/the-order-1886/

On the exact same website.

>>12672
Actually 365 that. Retard

>>12672
>HotS art direction
>Good
If your idea of a good looking video game is something that looks like you're playing with a bunch of chunky little tykes figures with zero-impact spell effects, I guess it might look good

>>12692
Google, you don't provide sources for things that are considered general knowledge. If you're so ignorant of finding simple information its your own issue.

>>12680
so this is some sort of blog website disguised to look legitimate right

>1 guy
>Proudly powered by WordPress

It's a moba and the genre of moba is inherently a bad game.

>>12699
that thinking is flawed because Awesomenauts is a 'MOBA' and it's a good game.

Also 'MOBA' as a label is flawed because it counts things like CS:GO as a 'MOBA'

>>12697
That's not how this works, you don't just blindly make claims and tell people to google it for proof. You're full of shit and the fact that you can't post any stats to back yourself up proves it.

>>12700
Yea and the definition of RPG includes literally every video game in existence.

People still know what you mean when you say moba, or assfaggots or whatever you want to call it.

I've never actually played awesomenauts so I can't say as to whether or not it's a moba.

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I used to love Dota until the Peru-chimps ruined it.

>>12606
Modern valve is so shit they basically killed all of their games due to jewery
Also last time I checked techies got a completely unnecessary nerf and the interface was changed to look like LoL
Glad I don't bother with MOBAs anymore, the entire genre is designed to make shitterd addicted to a game they don't even have fun playing

1. they think it killed rts
2. retards think it's comparable to an rts but dumbed down
3. the community is cancer

>>12679
Yeah, I've played both. Last hitting is boring.

>>12702
> RPG includes literally every video game in existence.

You can't Roleplay in Tetris or Pong retard or puzzle games. Stop being retarded. Even then the classfication of RPG becomes more specific when you add things like ARPG which is a single unit you control instead of a party and MMORPG for online interaction and JRPG for Japanese RPGs.

>I've never played Awesomenauts

you're a faggot who has no idea about anything then

>>12655
>this is what blizzdrones actually believe

>>12678
>something its players want to see gone.
Where did I say I want it gone? Keep your shitty opinions to yourself, fag.

I'm sick of putting increasingly more effort into preventing some random 3rd world shitter having a meltdown because early game wasn't a stomp for our team.

Sick of the shitty hats/china pandering hats/color breaking hats/silhouette breaking hats/etc.

Sick of the twitch faggotry and weak ass "banter". The kind of excuse for smacktalk that is used by the playerbase can be found in any random puddle.

TL;DR: playerbase is faggotry incarnate and valve shit out hats that pander to china or blind people.

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>>12606
It's a shitty game. Took me 1.5k hours to realize it. If game isn't a one sided stomp, it's a 40 farming chore that it's decided by one-two teamfights then it's a battle uphill with a 1/100 chance of a comeback.

The thrill of a comeback isn't that good when you can find a better thrill for much less effort somewhere else(Like Shadowverse or OW, that are both more casual).

Anyway, Dota is an addictition and thousands of faggots are going to try to justify their addiction like any drug addict. This is coming from a guy that bought mousepads, mugs and plushies with dota characters in it(I'm not even counting my Arcanas and stuff that I sold a long time ago). Now I just fap to the girls.

>>12706
then don't play 1 or 2 retard

The reason why Dota 2 lost so many players was the russian mafia money launderers got banned and dealed with it.

>>12707
>You can't Roleplay in Tetris or Pong retard or puzzle games.
In tetris you play the role as the controller of the tetrominos.

In pong you play as the paddle.

>A role-playing game (RPG and sometimes roleplaying game) is a game in which players assume the roles of characters in a fictional setting.

I don't know why you're so upset I've never played awesomenauts. It looks ok I guess I just never played it because I didn't care to.

https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/62991t/the_dota_2_workshop_and_its_ecosystem_are_dying/

if anyone's interested in valve being jewish
>reddit

>>12712
I'm not playing either now, cum eater.

>>12711
>Shadowverse or OW,
lol

Want to be sets like the professionals? Come play a D2BINGO.COM right now!

>>12702
>Yea and the definition of RPG includes literally every video game in existence.
No, RPG is a term that refers to tabletop role playing games, which is the original source basis for all the systems used in video role playing games. On top of that, the term actually references the core differentiating factor of the genre's games versus other games. RPG games put more focus on traditional RPG elements and character building than other types of games.

Being multiplayer, online, or a "battle arena" are not at all the core differentiating features of dota-style games. It's the per-match progression, presence of CPU units, and the concept of destroying a pre-constructed base.

It's a shit genre label. Genre labels aren't supposed to be 100% literal, but they should actually describe what's unique or specifically focused on in a type of game. Mobas don't focus on being "multiplayer online battle arenas" any more than literally any other pvp game and it's not what sets them apart from anything else.

The game is amazing. The main problem is the community.

>>12615
what the actual fuck is stopping you from jungling anyway?

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>>12715
what the fresh hell is this

>>12722
our guy

>>12709
If players didn't like it, which is what you're saying, then they'd prefer the games not have it.
You didn't do so hot in school, did you?
Anyways, the fact that that's the only thing you have in my post to reply to leads me to believe you realized you were wrong anyways.

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>>12717
>le "game is more simple so it is bad" meme

I love how this is the most common for dota addiction(Muh complexity). Good thing I don't think like this anymore.

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>>12706
I didn't know your personal opinions reflect the views of millions of players

my one online friend plays league so i play league with him. he even played dota1, hon, dota2 forever and finally one day just wanted to play league.either way fuck mobas, they only make me depressed but i can't stop

>>12725
>>12711
ow is better than a moba but it's bogged down by so much moba shit I don't even feel like playing it half the time

>>12724
Not true at all. There's more to the games besides last hitting which is why they, and myself, play/played them. Try not to attempt wit either, you're not quite as smart as you think you are.

The game is filled with people who think they have an understanding of the game, when they don't. Not understanding all aspects of the game is fine, but not when you're vocal and angry about it. There's nothing beneficial in being told

>wow gg 1k team

by a person who doesn't know when to take fights, who doesn't know when to leave an engagement, who doesn't build MKB against a team with evasion. Even worse when that person themselves is a smurf who can't handle playing against people they're supposed to be matched with.

This is NOT limited to Peruvians, Mexicans, Russians. This shitty attitude coupled with their own lack of understanding is very prevalent with Americans and Europeans in their teens and 20s. Games are not fun with these cookie-cutter insults that they picked up by being called that themselves.

Insulting your own team, insulting the enemy team, using "?"; none of it is fun. I don't care if the people on my team aren't good, as long as they're not blaming anyone else for their failures. I'd rather lose with people who want to have fun and get better than win with a bunch of whiny faggots who expect pro-level plays from a random group in a Normal Skill match.

Light-hearted banter with the enemy team is fun. Soulless meme-phrases proving you lack any creative thought is hackneyed. I want fun, not copy-paste.

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>>12606
/ourguy/?

>>12697
>We have to make it harder for immigrants to get here, it shits up everything.
>"Well, sure we can do that instantly. But can you provide any evidence for your claim?"
>JUST GOOGLE IT AND REDPILL YOURSELF MY MAN, IT'S NOT MY JOB TO EDUCATE YOU

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>cant play for months because shit internet
>finally get the chance to play
>autistic retard from 4chan and his friend start fighting with mid player and feed down mid within 10 minutes
>next game pos 1 ordering people around and saying he'll destroy his items and feed if we dont listen
i seriously hope you faggots don't do this

>>12726
They don't. And just because millions of people play these games doesn't mean certain aspects of them aren't boring.

>>12730
you would never survive in low prio

>>12729
Then, if it's not enough of a problem for people to specifically dislike it or want it gone, what the fuck are you complaining about? What is your point?
I've literally never seen anyone say last hitting is boring outside of HotS players on /v/.

>>12730
>Insulting your own team, insulting the enemy team [...], none of it is fun
I see someone never played HoN

>>12717
He made his point, wether those games are bad or good doesn't matter

>>12725
>Good thing I don't think like this anymore.
Same
I used to think like that too, when I used to play dota and I found out HotS has no items and shit like that, I used to think WOW THESE PLEBS HOLY SHIT but nowadays I don't give a fuck, all I want is to have fun
Unfortunately all multiplayer games seem shit nowadays

>>12725
>3k shitstain prefers easy casual games
k

>>12734
>And just because millions of people play these games doesn't mean certain aspects of them aren't boring.
And it doesn't mean certain aspects of them are boring either.
Do you have a point, or are you just spouting opinions for no reason?

what is deep about these games?

they all look basic.

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>>12711
>The thrill of a comeback isn't that good

There's hardly anything more satisfying in vidya than a succesful highground defense that leads to a comeback.
Or winning after getting mega'ed.

>>12720
Very true. MMR games are lottery. Even when I take one for the team and go full support, there's still retards ruining the game. Whereas in a different match you will find people who are very communicative and play like a team. It's bad but there's not many matches where I don't have to mute 2-3 people to properly enjoy it.

Also, those lowerbracket bo1s today were great. I couldn't catch them live so I watched the highlights (which is a lot more convenient as well) and the EG game was intense as fuck.

>>12730
>Insulting your own team, insulting the enemy team, using "?"; none of it is fun.
psychological warfare is fair game if you don't like it mute everyone.

>>12725
it isn't "complexity" that the other games lack, but choice and decision-making. other games just remove choice and decisions player can make in order to make their games easier.

>>12606
>Why does /v/ hate it with so much passion?
Because it's mainly used to incite Dota/Lol shitpost threads so they only associate it with a rivalry that doesn't fucking exist.

>>12741
billions of years of balancing results in a game which doesn't really degenerate into simplistic dominating strategies at high level play, thus causing the illusion of complexity

>>12728
OW has a lot of stuff wrong with it. The awful balance is one of them.

>>12738
>all I want is to have fun
That all that matters, tbqh.

>>12739
>I waste my life playing a game to feel superior to anonymous people in a mongolian basket weaving forum

>>12742
>There's hardly anything more satisfying in vidya
Yeah, I don't deny the thrill of it. It feels good. Such a shame you have to deal with a dozen of shitty games and players to get it

>>12736
One guy made a statement that last hitting boring. Another person accused him of being a HotS player. My statement was in support of the first person, meaning that while many people play these game they aren't necessarily doing it for the last hitting. Last hitting is a means to an end in order to get past lane phase and move onto the mid-game and end-game, where this genre shines.

>>12748
>my statement is I have an opinion
ok

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>>12746
>doesn't really degenerate into simplistic dominating strategies at high level play, thus causing the illusion of complexity

>>12644
Im sure you are memeing but it is the most play game on all of steam. if that is dead then you are a god

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>>12747
>OW has a lot of stuff wrong with it. The awful balance is one of them.
true

This is the first blizzard game I've played since WC3 so I didn't know how bad they had gotten, only saw shit like wow and hearthstone.

>>12750
what is your purple-haired cartoon woman trying to communicate

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>>12609
Where do I start?

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reminder that if you dont have 5.5k mmr you shouldn't post ITT

>>12740
I think it's pretty straightforward what my point is you dullard. Are you going to move on or continue to argue over opinions for no reason?

>>12737
honestly, these dota fags have SUCH thin skin.. in hon you would have people flinging shit about mmr/colors and computer load times before the game even fucking loaded up. they wouldn't last a minute in hon.

also, dota 2 players suck at talking shit.. all they says is "lol 2k" or "fuck you taco," in hon people diversified their vocabularies to optimize the shit talking meta

>>12755
Fuck off Peter.

>>12743
It's not psychological warfare, it's them trying to fit in. That's what they see happen, and they emulate it. I'll be against a carry who gets an easy pick off on a support who was out of position, he'll do "?" then get killed doing some stupid shit of his own. Then at the end of the game, he'll ask you to report some of the people on his own team. It's just shifting blame.

That said, it's more rare when you play as a 5 group. You can have some fun all chat banter VS another 5 group, they're usually more receptive to it.

>>12757
>arguing over who is better at insults
now this is autism

>>12749
This whole conversation has been about our opinions on the genre.

>>12760
t. dota player

>>12761
Saying "I think most people would agree" is arguing more than a personal opinion, that suggests you're trying to argue that it's universally boring.

>>12606
>It's a really deep game
It can be complex
>great replay value
I can see why someone would think that, and I don't disagree.
>completely free.
Sure.
>Why does /v/ hate it with so much passion?
Mostly because /v/ is a buch of contrarian little shits. I don't mind the game, but I really fucking hate the community/other players. I'd rather play another game than interact with them.

These games are only fun when you know how to play them but you still havnt played more than a few heroes. Once youve played every hero 20-30 times is when it gets boring.

I reached 4k recently and went back to normal mode to practice, its the first time i've played normal in years and jesus christ no wonder people hate this game, it's pretty shit and a huge waste of time. I don't think you can learn much if you don't play ranked.

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>>12606
>completely free.

ummm, no

>>12754
watching dac and playing

>>12767
It is, though. The only monetized elements are 100% cosmetic.

>>12760
>not becoming one with the insult and playing the game where the owner called his co-players niggers and banned their accounts for making him angry
KID UR NOTHING GET GOOD

>>12770
insulting your teammates just tilts them and personally I like to win

>>12766
>it's pretty shit and a huge waste of time. I don't think you can learn much if you don't play ranked.
care to elaborate, anon?

>>12655
>I have no fucking idea how dota player numbers work
They're an anomaly. The game fluctuates all the time but always go back.

>>12763
I didn't mean it as literal, but it wouldn't surprise me if many players didn't care much for it since during my years of playing the genre I've never heard any positive statements attributed towards the lane phase.

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>>12769
ummm no

>>12752
I find that comic kind of ironic considering there is far more snowball potential in LoL than any other moba.

>>12771
*anonymous has initated a votekick*

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I calibrated my MMR back in 2012 or so when MMR was first introduced and got 2.5k, because I was dogshit then.
After almost four or so years of not playing ranked I decided to play ranked, I grinded my way from 2.5k to 4k, and when I hit 4k I lost all desire to play the game.

I wasn't super good, but I did do well enough to climb mmr just fine, having very good winrates with certain heroes. I just sort of lose the desire to play once I reached 4k and haven't played since then.

All the people I know who are 4k or higher say that 4k and up is just more of the same and everyone is still just as bad, only now you have more chances to run into competent players making it harder to carry and climb, and I just got discouraged.
After 3.5k hours I finally quit the game for good. Can't say I regret it, but I also don't miss it.

Cause they've ruined it with 7.0 update.

>>12779
What was so bad about 7.0? I've stopped following the game and only play it with friends a few games a week.

>>12776
How? That doesn't imply anything either way about snowballing, it's about how it balances characters against each other.

LoL isn't snowbally because things get REALLY powerful, it's because everything's really flat and numerical so if the other side gets a small advantage there's not much you can do to keep it from slowly tipping more and more.

>>12780
Shrines.
lmao4bounty
Talents are okay i guess. but as of now they lack unique upgrades.

>>12730
I've had many germans act like this, and they spout their shit over their microphones. Actually most germans act like this in any game i've played recently. Sometimes I like to leave them unmuted to hear the autistic screeching when something goes wrong

>>12782
Yeah, but what's so bad about those features?

>>12782
>not liking bounties

>>12780
well they alienated people that actually enjoyed playing dota and not this shitty knockoff version of actual dota

>>12780
They've completely changed the ui.

>>12780
It kind of fucked the scales on everything. The game feels like -em now, tanky midgame carries dominate and carries in general come online way too fast. The most effective strategy is to pick a beefy team of melee carries, get a few kills, then unstoppably deathball.

Also the map was reworked for no reason, the UI still hides some important info under the alt key, most players seem to disagree with shrines and all the bounty runes, and talents just don't feel like dota.

>>12778
It always seemed to me MMR is a meme created so the game is more addictive
I always read the only way to climb is to grind with heroes that snowball then carry. So basically no teamplay involved
And like you said even if you get to high mmr like 5k you will most likely never become a pro. It's just a huge drain of hours that you could have spent actually have fun

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>>12606
Love it

>>12606
because the incentive structure of the game promotes retarded team destroying play

>>12751
700 000 subhumans don't count

>move your game piece around a flat board, farm money, and wait until your turn to do anything because you can't just act whenever you want

It's like the Monopoly of video games i.e. fucking boring

The only "action" is the five seconds of everybody vomiting their priority abilities at once in between long periods of playing chicken with the enemy team

>>12790
porn pls

>>12788
>beefy team of melee carries,
no

>>12606
MOBA are just boring as shit to me. Sloe, and clunky, with a weird degree of separation to controlling your car actor that makes everything so unsatisfying.

>>12793
why do you feel the need to provide your opinion when you obviously have no idea what youre talking about?

>>12781
Well it says the riot way is fun sized yet there are countless builds that are designed to just one shot everyone.

>People talking about how perfectly balanced this game is for years
>literally every hero gets buffed / nerfed multiple times a year

?????????????????

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>>12789
Yes, MMR is just the carrot they dangle in front of you to keep you hooked.
Either for bragging rights to your friends, online or for some form of personal satisfaction, you're just grinding hours upon hours instead of doing something that could be more fun or productive (and let's not delude ourselves, while dota can be lots of fun grinding MMR is not exactly the most fun way to play the game and can get you many salt inducing games).

I just sort of took the blinds off and realized that I was just being conned into grinding away repetitive games cause if you want to climb you have to pick the very select few strong heroes and play in very specific ways to win.

Though if my firends ask me to I'll play some customs like Overthrow or whatever.

>>12772
I'm saying normal mode is shit but ranked isn't. The last 2 days I played i've had people abandoning within the first 3 mins of the game (where they died) and you can just leave because there's no penalty to it.
No one seems to choose proper roles either, they just tend to pick whatever they want and mess around. So you don't get a sense of what hero is meant to go in which lane and their purpose, etc.
In ranked you're more likely to have a decent draft order of heroes too, instead of someone picking invoker mid straight away.
I just feel like normal will give people the wrong impression because its seems so disorganized and people have less of an incentive to win because they aren't playing for mmr.

dota 2 is bad because of the player base. yurop has russians and the usa has south americans. too many subhumans

>>12799
>People talking about how perfectly balanced
> perfectly balanced
stop making shit up ????

I was losing interest but then they introduce compendiums. It's not even about the skins, although I do like weather effects. Its about the quests, its like a new way of play the game and get out of your comfort zone even though some of them are bugged. Its about seeing those 3 stars, these jews know how to play with our brains.

>>12798
That doesn't really have anything to do with snowballing, and dota tends to have even more of that

>>12800
Fucking thank you. It took me way too long to realize that most online games are total cancer and the best way to get an enjoyable experience from your vidya is by playing single player games only, maybe a co-op game from time to time at most.

>>12800
>if you want to climb you have to pick the very select few strong heroes
you can get to 5k playing just about anything

>>12655
>growing game
HAHAHAHAHAH LMAO
still 100 people in chat o wait yesterday was 112

>>12805
>Get fed in dota
>Walk into all 5 enemies
>Get chain stunned and die
>Enemy team wins while im dead for 2 minutes
>Get fed in league
>Walk into all 5 enemies
>Kill them all in 5 seconds
>Win
LoL is inherently more snowbally than dota because there is almost no comeback potential

>>12706
I find more annoying deny, but hey I'm not a whiny bitch so I'm keep playing and enjoing the rest

>>12806
Playing with friends is fun too. The problem is trying to have fun with strangers. It doesn't work irl that well, why it would work online?

>>12807
Debatable. And it's undeniable that some heroes are greatly favored every patch, just look at play % and win % for each MMR bracket.

>>12809
Yeah, that's exactly my point
I'm not sure if you're just agreeing with me or if you misread me and are trying to argue something

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Because it's hard. Same reason why /v/ hates all competitive multiplayer. In single player games, especially the dime a dozen anime jrpgs people here love, there is no challenge that can't be beat by grinding, reading a guide or checking a guide.

In competitive high skill ceiling MP games you actually have to be skilled to win and have fun. And I guess these neets who play all day think they're meant to do well in games simply because they play lot. They just can't deal with playing to actually improve.

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>>12655
LMAO

>>12641
well dota have now region lock

>>12809
>Walk into all 5 enemies
Are you stupid or what?

>>12812
>Debatable
no
>it's undeniable that some heroes are greatly favored every patch
no shit it's easier to win maining the top heroes every patch but you can still win with heroes like cm, nyx, kotl, doom etc

>>12606
Learning curve is steep for the being steep in many regards.

>>12655
>valvecuck
Oh really? y-y-you blizzard fag!
Come on dude

I used to be really into it, clocked 1.3k hours over two years during early beta/early release and suddenly I got burnt out super hard. I can't even finish a game now.
It just feels boring.

>>12818
Depends on your team composition and your itemisation. Some heroes are much harder to win with not just because they are sort of underpowered but because they don't work well with common picks so you're shooting yourself in the foot by picking them.

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>>12819
what did he mean by this

>too shallow as a strategy game
>too stiff as an action game
>too serious as a party game
i might have played a shitton of dota but to be honest it's a fundamentally bad genre

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How does a game that is free have replay value

>>12824
lol

>>12825
how would that have any effect either way?

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>>12825
Where's the source.

>>12828
It's by Chinzureena, I recognize the art style.
Be weary though, all his doujins involve scat.

>>12606
i loved it until they ruined it with 7.00

>>12830
What did 7.00 change that ruined it, anon?

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>>12829
Do you really think i'm gonna be intimidated by a little scat.

>>12831

>>12788
>>12787
>>12786
>>12782

>>12832
Alright buddy, just thought I'd let anyone know.
Not everyone is into seeing the hershey highway drop some hot chocolate.

>>12831
>run around fighting with ridiculous talents and healing fountains XD
its fucking trash. thats not what dota used to be.

>>12746
>Illusion of complexity

"You're not having real fun it's fake fun!!!"

>>12836
fun is an emotion and can't be fake because it is the experience itself, complexity is something that can be somewhat measured and can very well be illusory

>>12825
being free and having replay value aren't mutually exclusive retard

>>12837
Fake argument. You have merely made the illusion of an argument.

Incoming sophistry in reply. lol

>>12839
great post you win

>>12814
Theres truth in this post.

Why else would /v/ shit on L4D and spam epic memes for Killing Floor? People in here want comfy games where you can bond and ERP with other boys.

>>12840
Fake submission, faggot.

>>12842
concession accepted

>>12655
>there are more casuals than high level players
Imagine

>>12843
Fake acceptance lol

Dota 2 is too intimidating to learn, and the game isn't visually appealing enough for me to want to put effort into it.

>>12845
go sperg out at the caveman who invented the concept of an illusion, I think you have more beef with him than you do with me

>>12606
It has a crushing learning curve that will make anyone who isn't REALLY into it hate the game + everyone will flame you and call you a fag if you fuck up.

Basically, the game isn't for little bitches.
Little bitches can play LoL.

>>12784
Shrines make the gameplay even more defensive and carry-heavy, and make it impossible for people to actually lose mid or offlane. 4 bounties inflates the economy even further, you can literally get 200 gold just for waddling through your jungle. Talents are extremely poorly though out with most of them being flat stat upgrades unlike HotS/Awesomenauts, so it just power creeps the game even further. Level 25 talents just snap the character in half and add insane power spikes to everyone. Not to mention there are talents that literally just give free gold and XP.

It's all just stuff that compounds on the problems memeback gold already introduced. If you haven't played much Dota, here's a good explanation that mostly sums up my thoughts on that: http://www.liquiddota.com/forum/dota-2-general/507995-league-of-the-ancients-2

>>12847
lol fake

>>12606
i got to 4.1k and i cant even enjoy the game at that level, people are hardcore

i just play nonranked now

>>12849
bounty runes at least give position 5 and 4 some gold while they wander around warding and ganking

>>12852
It's true, but they also give carries the same thing. Sadly, introducing more gold into the economy at all means supports usually suffer in the long run because it's as likely to make the enemy Slark/PA/MK/LC two-shot you as it is to get you your force staff quicker. Not to mention comeback gold is scaled based on how much gold exists in the game, not just percentages, so adding more gold = teamfights give out more gold = you're fucking dead if a melee carry lightly taps you on the shoulder. With the popularity of diffusal blade, even getting ghost/Eul's is iffy.

Dotard 2 is a nigger game.
That applies to everyone, Peruvian, Asian, Russian, American or European. Everybody turns into a nigger when they play this game. The game is great but it takes like fucking 5 months to fully understand all the mechanics and shit. Braindead teenagers and young adults are the main audiences of ARTS/MOBA/ASSFAGGOTS and they cannot dedicate all of that time to autisticly study a game. They just want to jump in and see wombo combo or muh "ooga booga where the teamfights at".
The irony is that Valve constantly dumps down the game to please the retarded audiences. The game is actually quite easy now (Gold/XP everywhere, region lock so you have English speakers) but it is so bland right now. Just play like 5 games this in US East in 4.3k bracket and was so surprised of how easy the game is right now. But at the same time, I didn't have the satisfaction from trying hard like it used to be.

I played Dota 2 for about 3-4 years before I quit.

Patch 7.0 Killed Dota 2 for me. Shrines could have been ok, but implemented badly. Talents are I think are pretty decent but it really makes balancing the game harder.
EXP changes were bad for pacing of the matches, and changed when each hero got their power spikes and for how long, in the end I think made it worse.
UI is complete fucking garbage I don't give a fuck. Should have had the option to keep old UI, at the very least make the UI fully customizable.
The new map feels like it was made complicated for now good reason other than to make is complicated, it doesn't feel as comfy as the previous maps.
Overall I feel like the game was dumbed down in 7.0 for more SA trash shekels. No region/language lock options after this time just makes it unplayable solo Q.

I think Dota WAS a good game, I'm not so sure now.

>>12606
ESports are just wastes of time. They are functionally identical to sports, but there is no physical activity, so they are strictly worse than just playing a fucking sport. Other games at least have interesting stories or experiences beyond just making a team and playing an isolated game that has no effect on anything.

>>12606

It's boring and full of Russians.

>>12606
I don' t exactly hate the game, I simply hate every single person I have ever had to play it with.

>>12855
New UI is objectively better, and they implemented soft region lock recently.

>>12849
>you can literally get 200 gold just for waddling through your jungle.

The initial bounty runes give 100 gold, but every bounty after that gives 50 + an additional 2 for every minute that has passed, right? I do a lot of bounty rune stealing and I don't think I've gotten one worth 100 aside from the starting ones.

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>>12855
This is basically where I'm at too
Dota is a good game, but this isn't really dota anymore

>>12644
LUL you can't be more wrong than this

>>12859
>important information still hidden underneath the alt key
>objectively better

>>12860
Actually I forgot, you're right. I just forget about them so much that I just remember grabbing the first one of the game and getting +100. Not quite as bad but still sorta silly on principle, especially with bottle.

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>>12861
I miss boner king

>>>/vg/172792096
>>>/vg/172792479
>>>/vg/172792936

I think the genre needs a revitalizing shock. Right now it's pretty stagnant and losing a lot of eyes.

DotA2 would've been good if not for arbitrarily keeping some limitations from the WCIII DotA, while also ruining the balance of the game with tons of exp and money reworks.

Maybe the 30 - 50 minute matches are what're killing the game? Most other competitive games have shorter duration matches so a fuck up doesn't lead to 30 minutes of the enemy ricing and finishing you off. I know that the support/carry/initiator/ganker/semi-carry roles are part of the strategy of the genre, but it's also partly to blame for the long matches as the game needs to be balanced around hard carries needing an hour of farm to reach their max potential.

because despite it's complexity of mechanics and items, its hero designs simply aren't as good as League

i'm not even baiting - sure some DoTA stuff is more complex or has more significant effects, but LoL heroes just have generally tighter kits.

What is the Yasuo, Camille, Fiora, of DoTA?

Also the art design is dated, the game is too dark, and the CC is too often point and click and exceedingly long

>>12868
Isn't Fiora's ultimate just Omni-slash?

Besides, most of League's heroes are ripped off from DotA2/HoN. Like that rodent in a machine thing being completely ripped off from Chipper, or Riot releasing Monkey King after HoN released their Monkey King.

The worst part about the game is how few people there are that know about the game and take the leader role. So few players will give you a genuine "Relax, you're doing fine" along with advice to help the next fight.

Obviously you can't explain the concept of connect-pulling to someone who doesn't know easily enough to have it matter for that game, but things like positioning, when to use a certain ability, when to back out of a fight can be easily communicated.

>Let's push with next wave. I'll blink in, then that's when the rest of you follow. Luna, hit your ult then only focus on the buildings, we'll buy you time. As soon as we get the racks, everyone back off.

Something as simple as that is all you need. The game isn't fun when the only communication is every member of the team believing they deserve to be 7k and insulting everyone else's playing when clearly the whole team belongs in 1k.

>>12869
didn't dota literally just come out with Monkey king, and character design =/= gameplay design.

If a character looks similar and plays absolutely nothing alike it's what a character model rip? boo hoo

>>12870
The problem is that the matches last for fucking ever, so one shitter ruining things for your team can trap you in a losing battle for well over 40 minutes due to no concede button.

Like, there's seriously no way out unless you want to be punished. Either you sit there and watch as the enemy team demolishes you slowly, or you leave and get buttfucked by Valve. That's why so many people get angry. If there was a way to end it after 20 - 25 minutes without relying on the enemy team to man up and finish you off, people would be far less likely to have their head up their ass and yell at you all the time.

>>12868
i stopped playing LoL in like early 2011 because the kits were shit

playing dota where every spell set was distinct and insane was vastly more fun

>>12871
That rodent in a mech is pretty much exactly Chipper from HoN. Like, his ultimate is a direct fucking copy of Chipper's. His shield is a copy of Chipper's. His ability to set people on fire is a copy of Chipper's. His model is a copy of Chipper's, etc.

Riot literally stole the design and changed it up ever so slightly. You can pretty much only expect Chinese bootlegs out of a company owned by China, afterall.

>>12869
No, her ultimate puts 4 quadrants on the target, attacking from within that quadrant procs the 'vital' dealing damage and healing her (true damage, ignoring armour)

If she procs any during the ultimate timer, a healing field is placed on the ground, healing her and teamates for 2 seconds per Vital proc'd.

But the rest of her kit is great too - despite veing simple. It's kind of the difference i was getting at. DoTA certainly has some extremely fucking cool abilities, but i feel like LoL does better with complete kits. Her Q is a simple dash that does an attack, but it fits with her passive. Her W is just a simple reflect, but has so much use, and so on.

>>12868
Apples and oranges.
Dota is more of a strategy game, LoL is more of an action game.
But, it's funny because Dota still has harder mechanics

>>12875
I'm not really seeing the basis behind your argument, all I'm getting is "I really like this particular LoL kit so LoL ability design is better"

>>12876
perhaps. and i will admit - the reason i stopped playing LoL is because i thoroughly enjoyed the laning phase - outplaying my opponent 1v1, duelling, etc

But i never really liked the group and teamfighting phase since its just a standoff until someone fucks up.

>>12875
I think the simplicity is the problem with the movesets in LoL. There are too many dashes, too many mid-ranged "skill-shots", too many activate-and-have-your-next-attack-do-something spells.

Like, there are some functional differences, like some dashes attack a lot of targets, some end when they hit something, or etc, but they're still so reminiscent. Doesn't help that everyone will have Flash. The Summoner abilities really fucked the game because everyone is going to use the most powerful ability.

>>12606
>Why does /v/ hate it with so much passion?
For several reasons. It's extremely popular, it can be frustrating. I've also noticed that people shit on it for reasons that only apply to LoL.

Personally I hate it because 7.00 was fucking insulting. I can recognize that it's not complete shit yet but to me the writing is on the wall.

>>12609
Yeah that's true but once you get past your first 10-20 matches, the learning experience is pretty fun. It's rewarding to learn about the tricks of the game and the importance of various mechanics.

>>12610
Not really. Last hitting is a pretty good resource gain game mechanic. Since your creeps meet, it means your main resource spots are in the same place as the enemy's main resource spots (jungle camps are also resource spots and they're not inherently safe either). This encourages makes both teams interact with each other from the very start.

>>12877
i like that the kits in LoL seemed to just feel tighter and kinda more coherent. I played a bit of DoTA and i just felt like a lot of heroes have powerful abilities but less 'kit synergy' so to speak.

I'm not saying either is better, just what i prefer. For example, i'm not a big fan of how much power Items have in DoTA, with their abilities and such, but i get that some people do.

>>12879
I would have a problem if many of the kits were just simple, but a lot of them have simplicity at their root, but room for development/mastery. That's why theres certain heroes who you dread seeing on your team in low elo - the 'mechanical' heroes like Riven, Katarina, Yasuo or whatever.

Your argument about mobility creep is very real, and i can certainly agree with that to an extent. Lee Sin was a fucking mistake.

I actually really like skill shots though, and think one of my biggest gripes with DoTA is the lack of skill shots for CC/Damage. I like being able to outplay opponents via mobility.

The real problem with the genre is that it's team based. Teams are fine, but sometimes it feels like you're pitting a team of PE class rejects against the fucking NFL, and rarely is it ever an even match. Sometimes you're fucked from the getgo because of team picks, sometimes you have such strong team synergy that you can completely make up for the difference of skill.

A 10 player free for all styled DotA game would be interesting. If you succeeded, it'd be because of your own merits, and not because you had a pro-level carry or the world's best support. Plus, it'd make more fun heroes to play because you wouldn't have to balance every hero around their BFF being picked and making them imba.

>>12882
finding good teammates is a team game skill and you should git gud

>>12883
You're right, I should get on buying $5k worth of games so Valve will match me with good teammates. What was I thinking?

>>12609

>>12882
you could always make friends anon

>>12884
I don't mean by the match making you dummy, I mean before you even press the queue button you should have a team of competent friends or game-mates

>>12886
Fuck making friends. Especially on a Steam game.

If I wanted to play a competitive game with a friend, I'd go back to practicing doubles for Melee with my bro.

>>12609
This is why I dont get why /v/ calls mobas casual shit. Even for league, someone who has never touched the genre needs a few hundred hours to really get it, let alone dota.

Hate them, call them shit, but they are far from casual.

>>12882
One idea I spent a lot of time on as a Dota 2 custom game but gave up on due to Valve assfucking the custom game tools every 2 seconds was a mode where you're basically a moba team by yourself, and it's CTF distilled down to gameplay rounds.

Basically, you had 5 units, each with a single ability. Your sorceress was your central character that could pick up enemy flags. She dies and you lose the round. The others were fighters based on the elements, but also moba archetypes. Fire was a burst character, earth was an initiator, water was a support, and wind was a DPSer. They'd respawn in 30 seconds if killed, but rounds are about 5 minutes. There was also a powerup in the middle of the map that could increase your sorceress' HP, and killing enemy elementals would do the same thing to a lesser degree.

I got really discouraged from working on it not only due to Valve fucking up the API all the time, but because of the fact that everything that isn't just a Dota clone or an RPG gets shafted on the arcade. Even amazing shit like Crumbling Island Arena gets no players compared to Dota Imba or Roshpit Champions. Part of me wants to continue it but part of me thinks I'd be better off just making it as a new game.

>>12889
It's a meme
/v/'s definition of "casual" is "game I don't like for any reason"

>>12606
>be me
>friends always go on about how great dota 2 is
>finally install the game and start it up
>find out it is actually not a video game but a torture method
>game also functions as a containment zone for third world shitters who can't afford real games
>matches never end, 95% of every match is the most mind-numbingly boring shit ever
>friends realise game is garbage and quit

Final verdict: If i was an unemployed third worlder who has to spend what little shekels i have on vodka and potatoes and wall carpets so i don't freeze to death in the winter this game would be my go to escapism from my hopeless existence.

File: 1345251693772.jpg (194KB, 717x880px) Image search: [Google]

194KB, 717x880px

>>12892
>be me

>>12889
>>12891

Devil's advocate: they have a very high skill floor but the skill ceiling isn't far beyond it outside of outlier heroes/champs that take more skill than normal. Once you've memorized all the items and characters they're pretty simple games. If you made a moba with only 5 characters to choose from and it had Dota's version of talents instead of items, it'd probably be the most casual shit in the universe.

>>12680
>just to fit valves business model
Does that make it any less free?
Your argument is stupid

>>12606
/v/ hates dota 2 because in reality /v/ only likes easy games like dark souls and overwatch and stray away from any game that requires both individual skill and ability to work with other people
it's literally too hard for the vast majority of /v/ and that's why they hate games that show just how shit they are at their hobby

>>12807
if you want to climb higher you proly have to

It's simply not fun. I have 2k hours in it, and I probably enjoyed maybe 30ish hours at most.

>>12890
My idea was more of a remix on the map where there are 5 - 10 bases, each with only one player. You have a limited amount of lives, but you can also lose by having your base destroyed. It'd be a bit of a bigger map since there would need to be room for several different bases as well as lanes and jungle.

It'd lend to the matches being quicker, and you could balance heroes more evenly without having to balance them around the off chance of a really complimentary hero being picked and being too strong together, but too weak separate.

>>12894
>Once you've memorized all the items and characters they're pretty simple games.
That's really not how it works. It's not just about raw memorizing, it's about learning interactions to the point of being able to make rapid real time decisions as shit gets thrown at you. It's not a turn based game.

>If you made a moba with only 5 characters to choose from and it had Dota's version of talents instead of items, it'd probably be the most casual shit in the universe.
Any game is casual if you completely remove all the core mechanics it's built on, turning it into a completely unrelated game. How is this an argument?

>>12899
I do like the idea, but I think you'd have to have at least two lanes per player so that there's no reason to just camp your lane 24/7. It's definitely got some potential though, I'd like to see a game like this where characters are balanced against each other in a 1v1 sense instead of in a way where certain characters always win engagements versus others or even versus entire archetypes.

>>12899
Something like this ends up relying more on who does and doesn't end up getting focused rather than who's individually skilled. There would still be teamfights, but instead of teams it's just a clusterfuck of people all switching focus to whoever looks like they'll die the fastest.

If you've ever played a mtg commander game with more than three players, you know what I'm talking about

ask someone whos played more than 300 hours of singleplayer against bots, barely touching multiplayer anything.

I love the game, but the community is awful.

>>12902
Overthrow in Dota has this problem too. It becomes less about who's better at teamfighting and more about a combination of who's better at picking on the weak and who's better at killstealing. Which are usually mobile characters with good burst like Slark, Storm, or PA.

>>12902
If you've ever played a Civilization multiplayer match, you'll know that people won't just gang up on one person unless they're insanely overpowered (a la Korea/Babylon/Poland in Civ V, or Australia in Civ VI). Nobody wants to overextend, and alliances aren't trustworthy unless you actually know and want to team up with the other player.

If one person gets BTFO by all the others, he's out of the match in only 5 - 10 minutes, so it's not a huge timesink.

>>12754
Day9 has been doing a weekly coaching session with purge. has alot of basics, if watch and put some time in you could be more than halfway decent I'll bet.

>>12903
why dont you get a job?

>>12901
2 lanes per player and having only 5 players total could also work. That way there's less of a chance of getting a train run on you by a ton of people. You could potentially win a 1v2 or a 1v3 if you're skilled enough at juking, especially if they can kill their "allies" by missing.

>>12904
storm+kunkka is such a good overthrow combo that me and my friend agreed to never play it again after we tried it out in our second ever game

>>12905
>If you've ever played a Civilization multiplayer match, you'll know that people won't just gang up on one person unless they're insanely overpowered (a la Korea/Babylon/Poland in Civ V, or Australia in Civ VI). Nobody wants to overextend, and alliances aren't trustworthy unless you actually know and want to team up with the other player.
That's different because it's a slow, turn based politics game. Comparing that to a real-time free for all fight where everyone's mushed together throwing abilities at each other is apples to oranges.

In that kind of a fight, the way to stay alive is to make other players die first. If other people are focusing someone other than you, you help them because it protects yourself as well. It's not about focusing a threat.

>>12880
Honestly 7.00 got me back into DotA though, it changed enough of the game to make it feel fresh, theres so many new builds and items it's honestly FUN

>>12894
But casual implies anyone can pick up and play, high skill floor is the exact opposite of that. My grandpa managed to play a game of halo 2 with me, he wouldnt know where to begin in dota/league.

Once you get there the genre becomes more strategic rather than a display of mechanical skill(less so for league, which is a bit more skewed in the mechanics direction), using the mass of knowledge youve accumulated to make better and better decisions than your enemies its still pvp after all. And with elements like vision, you dont always know what decisions you enemy is making, and you dont always know what decisions the enemies know you are making. Games may become less chaotic and random, but that doesnt mean simpler.

>>12910
There's also The Culling, where people can arbitrarily team up.

Usually you only see that happen if one player is severely over powered (has a gun, or a T4 weapon, or has killed 3+ other players). People will usually turn on each other halfway through the fight because they want all the glory, and it ends up being a little more fair.

Plus, there's anti-teaming mechanics where people who team up for too long end up having a duel to the death.

>>12912
That's fair. I've just always preferred fighting games where even playing your favorite character well has a bit of barrier to entry, and even when you know a matchup, assuming it's not 8-2 or something you still have to constantly be thinking two steps ahead of your opponent. I find that satisfying, but to each his own. I can see the appeal but after 4 years of Dota 2 (and its admittedly terrible patches) I've decided it was not for me.

>>12913
Again, this is a completely different kind of game and the effect I'm talking about doesn't exist there.

>>12910
>you help them
nah no, with limited lives and no time limit, people tend to avoid/ambush/camp. The result is you mostly get 1v1 where the 3rd party will stay out of the fight to finish the weaken victor.

>>12908
I like it. Part of me is still so tempted to revive my game mode though. I can't run from the sunk cost fallacy.

>>12916
have you never played overthrow?

>>12915
It actually does. The goal of the game is to be the last to die, and you're solo the entire team. Of course, it also has a Teams mode, which is hella imbalanced, because there's always 1 - 2 teams where the people know each other and are good, and the other 6 - 7 teams are a fucking disgrace. It's basically the DotA effect, where one bad team mate can fuck up your chances of victory.

>>12730
>using "?"
That's pretty much the best thing, along with "??".

>>12780
Shrines, talents, bounty rune changes and the new HUD are all awful. I don't like the stacking changes either.

The rune changes are bad because they moved most of the rune spots to the team jungles, turning them from a "neutral", contested objective to a team-biased one (and seriously why would you risk such a disfavorable confrontation for under 100 gold and 2 bottle charges).

The talents are bad because there was more choice in the stat levels (it was not as obvious but it was much more significant). Most talents are dull, give too much for the single point investment they require. Some of them remove weaknesses from characters, which used to require items (e.g. Windranger's mana problems are fixed by a level 10 talent). That's really not that levels should do. Finally, many of the levels 20 and 25 are far too strong, increasing snowballing problems and breaking the careful balance of the xp curve: previously, you basically hit peak power at 16. After that, you gained more stats, but your respawn time increased. Now, you gain significant power from levels all the way to level 25.

Shrines are bad because they're a free, strong heal. This makes early game aggression (i.e. lane ganks) weaker because players can very easily heal. It also makes fights in the jungle very favored towards the team that can heal from the shrine, making the game more passive. It also makes map control very hard to lose, since they are a tp spot.

Finally, the new HUD is ugly, doesn't fit with the game and was made with retards in mind (you actually can't argue that last point). It is the least important of the four problems I mentioned, and I would not care about it if I could still use the old style, but they clearly didn't care enough to make this an option.

The sad part is the gameplay changes would have been at home in a custom, Valve's very own Dota IMBA. Instead they make it the core game.

>>12919
No it doesn't. The functional gameplay is different. There aren't teamfights where you whittle health bars down. That's what creates this effect. It works like a teamfight in regular LoL/Dota where targets end up getting focused, and as long as that target isn't you it's in your best interest to help with that focus. What I'm talking about is very specific to the assfaggots genre, free for alls in basically every other type of game don't work like this because the perspective different, the TTK is different, and the methods of combat are different.

>tfw custom games will never live again
there was an attempt
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSHf0xHAT2w

>>12922
CIA is literally better Battlerite than Battlerite. I will fight anyone who disagrees.

>>12881
Dota is about hero synergies more than kit synergies, and also about using items to mitigate weaknesses. No way to jump in and initiate? Get Blink. Your only CC is an unreliable stun? Get euls or an ally that can set up your stun with his own reliable stun.