>Tips and tricks
>Artbook, soundtrack, manga, and other downloads
Fuuuuuuuuck. Gets me mad every. Single. Time.
>find out you can effectively buy incenses for 10k macca in nocturne
>get 250k macca in second kalpa
looks like I just beat nocturne
Ah shit, that's right. Well, can I go grab it ASAP? I just finished the place off.
I kind of wanna make this NG+ playthrough fairly brisk because I know Noise farming is gonna be time-consuming.
It's in the svadhisthana waterways. IIRC you want to look behind a waterfall not too far from the Cereberus boss fight.
You need the red key to fight a bunch of optional bosses anyway.
Yeah, that sounds about right.
I just had a look for myself and it seems as though you can't get the Blue Key straight after clearing Svadisthana. I kind of figured as much, since I didn't encounter a single random battle while backtracking to Harley's room. When I got there, the NPC that hands out the key wasn't there either. Oh well, onwards.
Forgot the pic.
>The Bible will never again be a final boss.
>The Last Bible series is set in a fantasy world patterned after the ancient Middle East.
I'm sold. I was just thinking the other day how I wanted to see more games with a Middle Eastern setting.
The first game is the only one where Lucifer is the final boss.
The twist is that him and the other Gaia masters just want to protect the monsters. Except Mephisto who is a dick and kills one for power.
Why hasn't the Last Bible or Devil Children series been translated? It seems like they would be something that would be easy for even an amateur translator to pick up and get done since they're Gameboy games.
Imagine a live action Megami Tensei movie.
Actually someone has translated the story and certain details of the game for Red/Black/White/Fire/Ice. Not completely though, and the names for demons that they translated looked like they went through google translate.
>Imagine a live action Megami Tensei movie.
Well the way I see it is, there's only so many untranslated Gameboy games in the world and plenty of amateur fan translators out there who might want to get some practice on something smaller. Also, the MegaTen franchise is somewhat successful now and it's only getting more popular. Makes me wonder why I haven't even heard of any efforts to translate the Gameboy MegaTens.
Armageddon in this case means destroying all existence and leaving nothingness. A world of pure law.
Actually that was the angels plans in Red/Black Book.
Then in White Book they unleash Jashin to destroy exsitence, and she wants to do it because there is no logic, nor purpose to creation.
I bet you didn't even know Enoch enjoys tentacle raping little kids.
If someone could help go through all the images tagged with shin_megami_tensei_1 and change them to just shin_megami_tensei that'd be very helpful. I am currently doing it, but some help would be nice.
jurakubookstore blog spot com/2014/05/megaten and-discourse-by-three.html
Thanks to whoever posted this. I love reading such meaty breakdowns and I feel like I learned the right way to use elementals for the first time.
Woah, that was fast. I want to use only 1 tag per game, and then add aliases to redirect other searches to those tags, so that nothing gets missed.
Next one is switching all demifiend to demi-fiend
Nah, it's already finished as shin_megami_tensei_nocturne
nocturne by itself will be an alias.
Next is changing strange_journey to shin_megami_tensei_strange_journey
If a post has both, delete the strange_journey tag. Thanks again anons.
Depends on which ending you plan on doing. If you're going for the True Demon Ending you'll want to go physical. Otherwise you can do whatever you want, but be warned that Curse/Expel magic won't work on bosses at all.
Just wait for LGBT or SJW, they'll kill you.
We should stop with the shitposting. I reached my goal anyway and am noww content and proud for the rest of my life.
>playing smt 1 with ordens patch
>get to the part after rescuing heroine and went to talk to her at the neutral bar
>cant enter gotou's dungeon
seriously what the fuck the guards wont let me in
Ok so why the fuck does KMT have a way better interface then smt 1? like it actually gives you item details and shit, the game in general feels way more polished but i thought it came out before smt 1... whats up with that?
>All this talk about Nocturne in /smtg/
>Give in and start a new game on Nocturne after a couple years of not playing
>Nickname the MC "/smtg/" in honor of the thread
>Went thru all the long scenes, etc.
>Got to first save point
>Forgot to get the free Soma from the Vending Machines on the 2nd floor of the Medical Center, before the Conception hit
>Can't be assed to restart the new game just for a free Soma
>mfw I realize this
He better not. He won't be fit for our glorious world of STR then.
You need STR to keep your waifus, else someone stronger will just TAKE them from you.
>I wasn't here last night
Any updates on the P1P revelations music patch?
I'm fucking stuck on this floor. This nigga keeps telling me of some goblin at south but I can't find the little fucker and I can't find stairs to go down anywhere either. What to do?
This is my first ever Something Tensei so please don't bully.
Então... provavelmente essa troca de mensagens não mudou sua situação,
porque sou br, oops
Anyway, it feels weird to read messages on 4chan that are not in english so we'd better drop that off
Nope. I remember reading in a Brazillian romhacking forum that someone wanted to make one from Orden's translation (dunno if he wanted to do it from English or Spanish), but I don't know what happened to it.
That screenshot is "real", though, but I added the accents in Paint because I didn't modify the game's graphics.
As far as I know, there are only Chinese and Orden's Spanish fantranslations available. No one else wants to bother with SMT.
>have a great interest getting into this series
>got the emulator and Digital Devil Saga 1 and 2
>setting up the key bindings because of no game pad
For non gamepad guys here, what does your set up look like?
I haven't actually tried it, but it shouldn't be too difficult to get something that works. Depends on your preference, but you could try having the right analog to the mouse, the LMB to X, RMB to O, then WASD to move. Square is the map and pass turn button, and Triangle is the auto battle and rearrange skills button, so pick what you think is appropriate for that. R1/L1 are used for switching between character status screens, and can also be used to control the camera, so for this setup, Q/E would be good.
thanks a bunch m8
I do have a ps3 controller and I used it before on my computer for some time and then for some reason it just stopped working. It was the worst timing because I just had the best Devil May Cry 4 mood going on.
Good job in making human existence pointless and screwing everything up,now humans are going to reincarnate forever without being able to die because you were a huge fag that wasn't man enough to end the conflict in a definitive way, have fun with realizing how weak and defenseless humans are when they are alone, you just condemned the entire humanity to eternal doom, now you will watch humanity destroy itself and not even the innocent and honest that deserve peace will ever be able to rest, you must be proud neutralfag.
Good job with being an egocentric and egoist faggot that doomed humanity and made every single good person's life miserable and painful, and you did all of these wonderful things just because you think you are better that the rest, you'll be backstabbed by Lucifer or someone as soon as you get older and you'll see how the ''weak'' that your kind so detest felt, even if you are chaos because you want a world where everyone is free you just created a world where
children and innocence have no chance of survival, good job.
> Those results.
>SMT is based on the bible
I got bad news for you bro
>because you were a huge fag that wasn't man enough to end the conflict in a definitive way
I got bad news for you too, because the cycle of creation always takes place regardless of alignment.
Do you mean YHVH or the Great Will?
YHVH, as the manifestation of god is clearly not omnipotent and the Great Will only oversees creation. In fact the Great Will's existence more or less implies that even lawful worlds will come to an end.
Thanks for the compliments, if lucifer tried to backstab me I'd kick his fucking ass
would rather live in a world where only the strong and intelligent survive then a world where only the weak minded that would love to suck gods dick 24/7 survive
>would rather live in a world where only the strong and intelligent survive
You'll be the first to go
>implying chaos isn't pure hypocrisy
>implying Hikawa doesn't best represent chaos, and he's law
Only to have new law worlds take their place.
Besides the Great Will is not omniptoent either. The idea that it might be is just as wrong as YHVH being omnipotent.
Not to mention a number of games treat them as the same.
I think they mean about the fact that even Gaeans found him too extreme.
You literally would create world were a peaceful, honest, happy and simple life would be impossible, and also, praising God, an almighty being that wouldn't do us any harm as long as we are faithfull to him isn't as stupid as you think since the world is overrun with demons and gods, praising God and receiving prosperity, safety, justice and eternal rest after death is a pretty good deal, even better, everyone born in a lawful world would have this rights, it's by far the best option for humanity and the future.
At the very least the world would be peaceful and happiness would reing while the world lasted.
You'll just be reincarnated at some point. The cycle continues, and you might reincarnate in a world where YHVH isn't the supreme power. Like how the Four Archangels of SMTII were reborn as humans in the world of Brahman, and the Atma virus allowed them to overwrite their human self to eat humans and build the thousand year kingdom in His world.
>we're all in agreement of what our Chaos organization will be like, except for Hikawa, he's a faggot
That's basically law in a nutshell.
>muh world of strength
The strongest are ostracized from chaos. Bitch-ass chaosfags don't even have the power to follow through on their own ideals.
>Only to have new law worlds take their place.
Nope, gotta have humans. They're the most important beings in the multiverse, hence why they're a required element for creation.
>Not to mention a number of games treat them as the same.
Only in the sense that they're both God and thus suposed to be indivisible but most just don't get into the distinction.
>Not wanting to expand beyond the world and just stay a mindless drone destined to fall silent and be cursed.
WORSHIP ME! THE CREATOR OF ALL, UNPARALLELED BY ANY!
Because there's no point to distinct between them. That's why Catholic Churches, and only Catholic Churches in King Abaddon are places where people worship the Great Will.
Even in Nocturne a NPC calls Metatron a servant of the Great Will.
>a peaceful, honest, happy and simple life would be impossible, and also, praising God, an almighty being that wouldn't do us any harm as long as we are faithfull to him
GOD IS A LOOSER HAHA FAGGOT
>Because there's no point to distinct between them
Grammar aside, sure there's a distinction. YHVH is the manifestation within the physical world and due to the way the conception works it is probably heavily influenced by the Reason that goes into the creation of the world.
This is why the angels and YHVH are presented differently across the series when they would otherwise be immutable.
You can be part of a group and disagree with someone, while also not agreeing with the rest of them.
Minako in IV had plans to place Astartoh as the RIng's King, and when that failed she ditched those bunch of psychos to make Tokyo fertile by reviving Ishtar. She was still part of the chaos alignment regardless.
Though at least she doesn't have to become Ishtar on Neutral since the dome will be removed, with life returning just fine without that goddess.
>an almighty being that wouldn't do us any harm as long as we are faithfull to him
This is what lawfags actually believe.
The seed of chaos is already within you, son of man. Die for the greater good.
Only the strong willed will be allowed to live in the world of law. The weak willed, which is most of humanity, shall be purged, and those that remain shall praise God for all eternity.
It's not about agreement, it's about not being a bunch of pussy bitches. Hikawa was the strongest in the cult and the rest of the cult of hypocrites turned away from it. If there was anything to their ideology at all, the conception wouldn't have been so easy for him to accomplish. Easily manipulated, easily killed. Chaos likes to talk about strength but when it comes down to it and their nuts are in a vice, they're always too weak to win.
Sometimes chaos is about just doing what you believe in, even if it hurts other, and when you fuck up you actually try to fix shit. Like Dahn in KA.
Others just want to oppose God, and the way they go about it determines how much of a dick they are. Like Naoya's two 8th Days.
And others just want true freedom, without going world of STR.
>this son of man thinks Law is about strong will and not the subversion of will
And that's why you'll be left behind to die in the great purge when the thousand year kingdom is finally created.
Mem Aleph is actually pretty STR, including some demons.
Plus the supporters of their alignment change between games as well. The Four Heavenly Kings were on chaos side in SJ, and the Mothers did beat YHVH when he was weak.
Not all of them are weak bitches, even Kaga was able to make a demon who thought she was invincible thanks to her magic get weak enough thanks to a stomach ache that the Samurai could beat them.
While those weaklings as Tsukiji basically mocked her when they couldn't even handle a couple demons coming from the Reactor in Ichigaya.
Though there is some irony in that Koga Saburo slaughters the lot of them on Walters route, when he's a chaos demon who a hunter thinks likely wants humans to get STR so they can survive when the Red Pills are no longer useful.
The Three Wise Men even state it and the current leaders of the Law faction trying to fulfill YHVH's plan for humanity since he is incapacitated.
Yes but when the earth is threatened by rot and decay she will rise up and become a champion of STR.
The Schwarzwelt shows her when man has reached the point of no redemption as the negative energies of the rotting earth transform it into the state seen in the game, while the beautiful positive energies make it a place of beauty when life is overflowing.
They say nothing about having a strong will.
In fact, there's an angel in Grus who defines law as subverting the individual will for the whole so actually it's very much the opposite.
>because chaos is defined by hypocrisy
That's a pretty stupid thing to say. Why did you come to that conclusion? Oh, right, because in Nocturne they aren't acting like true Shin Chaos guys would act.
Also nothing can be defined by hypocrisy alone, they first have to pretend to be something and that something is that something regardless of faggots who can't live up to it.
>We are here to build a just civilization spiritually.
>The spiritually enlightened whose wills are strong will be chosen...
>While the fallen humans whose wills are weak shall be exterminated.
>Demon Ending guy
>Not having the strength of will to pick a Reason or choose Freedom/True Demon
What a loser!
Did you cry when Kagutsuchi thought you didn't even deserve to be killed in a battle? I bet you did.
>Maybe because they don't like that humongous faggot in charge so they want to overthrow him?
As the strongest, he's allowed to do what he wants with his wurld of STR.
Also the demon endings in nocturne are chaos.
So nobody can try to be stronger? What the fuck, do you even get what wurld of STR means?
If some kid with long hair kills the faggot in charge he'll be the new one. Nobody would care about that yellow fuckface anymore.
The normal demon ending seems more like the worst aspect of Neutral. To cowardly to not only pick a side, but also too weak willed to try to change things by becoming a True Demon or restoring the old world.
Even Kagutsuchi doesn't think you deserve a battle to the death, and I honestly feel like Lucifer is mocking you with his dialogue about the thousand year kingdom for the demons and his blessing when he abandons that world to go somewhere else.
>As the strongest, he's allowed to do what he wants with his wurld of STR.
>Chaos is a self-defeating alignment, defined as being "the ones who lost."
Which one of your definitions is the correct one?
In the first one you defined Chaos as the strong guy reigning and chaosfags not being allowed to fight back, now sucking his dick. Yes, that's Law.
You know, the reason why those "fights" never have an ending is disgusting neuters ruining everything.
It's pretty funny they pretend that they are cowardly faggots who mistake a discussion for a fight but they would not hesitate a second before stabbing you in the back and kill almost everyone "for the sake of humanity" even when they don't even know how to change this rotten world.
>Shin Megami Tensei Trading Card: Card Summoner
>451 demons, yes FOUR HUNDRED FIFTY ONE demons
>Law, Neutral and Chaos paths in a damn card game
>still not translated
Yup, that's neutralfags for ya, no idea of what's worth fighting for and they fight for the ''greater good'', implying that someone who can't even chose between stupid stuff like eating pizza or hamburguer can make the best choices for humanity.
What's the overall hardest SMT? IV is considered easy, but press turn on boss fights can still break my balls. And I've heard Soul Hackers is intermediate, and that game aint easy so far, and I'm only a few hours in.
That's what having a strong will is. Chaos gives into their impulses. You can define their impeccable never giving up as strong willed. But they have to give their everything to do it. Law is even stronger willed. They get the same results without roaring or even breaking a sweat.
Yeah unless you solo things for amazing exp I guess.
And then there's new game plus which is so trivial as to not really be worth mentioning in terms of difficulty.
What can make SJ hard is the fact you don't control your stats, so it's possible to end up at the end of the game as some fucking 30 str gimp and just get rocked by every real bossfight. By which I mean, avoid magic support demonica. Even elemental gun damage is determined by your strength stat.
Levelling up is also going to be tough on you if you keep a full party out at all times. Magnetite isn't in the game, but I strongly suggest putting one or two demons away some times regardless, to keep ahead of the enemies you're fighting.
Otherwise just keep fusing and don't get too attached to a demon that will be shit in 5 levels and you should be good to go.
Why arent you a cannibal /smtg/?
Artificial difficulty in Nocturne.
>Running from A to B
>Random encounter beyond your control
>All enemies attack and destroy your entire team with crits
That's what artificial is.
>>All enemies attack and destroy your entire team with crits
i misread your post
Things that are close to impossible or impossible to avoid the first time around but trivial upon repetition are artificial difficulty, for example. Things that have one very specific way to do right that isn't hinted at well to the player would also fall into this category.
Most games with extreme cases of trial and error are regarded as having artificial difficulty.
I Wanna Be The Guy is the prime example, but it was made with that concept as its core feature.
SH isn't really hard or easy, just balanced
IV is the easiest i've played, outside of the first hour or so where its just kind of tedious. SMT II without nerve bullets and divine retribution (which are both kind of game breaking) is incredibly hard
>It's okay to have shitty game mechanics, you just have to save a lot because the game is bullshit.
Look, I enjoy Nocturne, but you have to admit it has its bullshit parts.
Tryhard shitters need not apply to game mechanic discussions.
On hard in nocturne that situation is possible to run into but I would say if you're dying in an ambush on normal, it's probably player error. Before the player starts finding enemies with mudo in the assembly of nihilo, NPCs around Ginza or Ikebukuro will tell the player that Nihilo has demons with those skills. There are other examples of this where NPCs indicate what kind of shit the player will be running into through the game, that's just the only example I remember specifically. Hints drop off as time goes on because the player is supposed to be getting better at skill selection and team building to be better protected from shit in the first place, but the inflated prices and deflated macca/exp make that harder as well.
A lot of the added difficulty in an Atlus RPG will be of the artificial kind, which is why those difficulty options sometimes don't open up until the game has been beat once, since pitting players against that shit the first time around isn't a way to create fun.
oh I see, when you wipe out the entire enemy formation before they can even take a single action, it's satisfying and nice
but when the same thing happens to YOUR team it's suddenly bullshit and a bad mechanic
Depends. Did I set my team up to kill things in the first round in the area I'm in? Did I have the options and was I given the foreknowledge of what I would be up against in the the area to avoid having the same done to me?
Battles don't exist in a vacuum when determining if they're bullshit. The circumstances bear looking at as well.
what do you mean "do perfectly"
we're talking about crits. if you get lucky and crit a bunch and get a bunch of press turns, you're happy
but if the enemies crit you and take extra actions suddenly it's a fucking bullshit mechanic
such a double standard
It's not necessarily a double standard. You have to consider the map and the circumstances. How many battles is the player going to be fighting from one save point to the next? What are the chances they'll be ambushed? What can they do to prevent ambushes, in terms of items or skills? If a player who has taken every precaution available can be wiped out in one battle from full health/mana you're not really creating fun.
The player being at least a little stronger than your average group of mooks is a core aspect of most RPGs, otherwise why do we give a shit about our protagonist? What makes him special?
>thinks DLC is worse than Nocturne! Nocturne Maniax! Nocturne Maniax Lucifer's Call! Nocturne Maniax Featuring Dante from Devil May Cry Edition! Nocturne Maniax Featuing Raidou Now Import This And Learn Mystic Script Edition!
What does that even mean?
You need the whole entire game to prepare the perfect party for him. If you don't you're dead no matter what.
This should help.
Wow, now i get what it means, it means that some kids should quit being scrubs and get good, challenge is bad? Go play Final Fantasy or some other crap, almost dying is where the fun is at, grinding hours for money is where the fun is at, just blazing through a boss isn't fun it's boring.
No, man. Just read that guide. The section on Satan. Hopefully, you'll see what I mean before long. And start to fear the very deep shit you're getting into...
Good luck, though. Hope you manage to survive, at least.
Clipped Wings 1 and 2 are pretty good, if only for the battle music.
Didn't really care for The Eternal Youth and Ancient One of the Sun, just a single boss battle and a look at the aftermath of the other Tokyos.
For the Past... For the Future is basically the game's Ultimate Boss, but finishing Clipped Wings 1 and 2 is essentially mandatory, since you need demons with the pierce abilities.
>Clipped Wings 1 and 2 is essentially mandatory, since you need demons with the pierce abilities.
Or that one grinding DLC with Aeshma, that learns magical pierces which you can fuse into other shit.
I haven't played the game so I'm not sure. Depends on what happens if you do it wrong, like if it gives you a game over or if nothing happens and you are able to try it a different way.
If it's presented as a puzzle, those are usually designed with the idea that the player will screw up in mind so they'll usually make sure the player gets another chance to try it pretty quick. If there's no hints on what order the gems need to go in but there are hints that there are some gems and they have to be used a certain way to progress, that could just be the game testing the player's memory and process of elimination skills.
It means nothing. All games are artificial, therefore all difficulty is artificial.
If you don't like "artificial difficulty", then what are you doing in /smtg/? Literally every SMT game except Persona 4 is rife with it. It's part of the charm that we like about the games.
Except other people seemed to be counting extra bosses like Elizabeth, and not just playing the game normally on normal mode, so yes, all the SMT games are rife with "Artificial Difficulty". Teleporter mazes, damage tiles, level loss spells. It's all there to extend play time and "artificially" inflict damage on your characters, yet it's fun because it doesn't pull any punches and hold your hand like a baby final fantasy game or something.
Because as I said, it doesn't mean anything. The definition you give it is not consistent either.
>Things that are close to impossible or impossible to avoid the first time around but trivial upon repetition are artificial difficulty, for example.
That's literally any challenge in any video game. Goomba kills you the first time you see one in Super Mario? Now you know. Don't touch those. ARTIFICIAL DIFFICULTY.
>Things that have one very specific way to do right that isn't hinted at well to the player would also fall into this category.
These are called "secrets". They're specifically designed to sell strategy guides. You're free to think of it as bad design but this whole "artificial difficulty" bullshit needs to stop.
Artificial difficulty isn't damage tiles, artificial difficulty is unmarked damage tiles that kill you, with no way to discern the difference between the two besides trial and error.
Not even level loss spells are necessarily artificial difficulty, although depending on the level curve of the game and what being a lower level will prevent you from doing, it could be a different type of unfun mechanic.
If you get some masochistic enjoyment from level drain I won't tell you to stop having fun but it's not hard to see why games don't do that shit as much anymore.
That's my point though. You're making the distinction here based on your own experiences. Based on what's killed YOU, and what's frustrated YOU. It's going to be different for others. All those things I've named are things that I've heard people refer to as artificial difficulty. Same with Hama/Mudo.
And /smtg/ is all about getting masochistic enjoyment from unfair dungeon crawlers. Lurk more.
And how much progress does our hypothetical player lose when they die to their first goomba? Can they develop goomba jumping skills to avoid touching them and be better about jumping on them? Are there identical goombas for whom these rules are reversed, which will once again require trial and error and memorization?
Okay anons, need your help again. We need to switch all images tagged with soul_hackers to devil_summoner_soul_hackers
If an image is tagged with both, please remove the soul_hackers tag.
Just because others are wrong about what artificial difficulty is doesn't mean there isn't such a thing as artificial difficulty. By denying it's existence, it's harder to give SMT games fair due for times when they create real difficulty.
That's not at all what I said.
It's based mostly on skill development, consistency and presentation of information to the player. Time investment comes in when determining what happens to the player when they lose. Dying to a goomba because you didn't know to jump on it isn't even a game over. That's why mario has a lives system.
soul_hackers will be an alias. If you search soul_hackers, you'll find all images tagged with devil_summoner_soul_hackers once i turn the alias on.
devil_summoner_raidou_kuzunoha will be the tag for the raidou games.
>muh secret club
What if I told you the tryhard shitter club you think you belong to doesn't even exist?
>That's why mario has a lives system.
RPGs have a game save system, which is arguably more forgiving than a lives system. But of course everything in an RPG is on a longer scale, so a death in an RPG naturally results in a greater loss of time invested. How much time is "too much" varies greatly from person to person, given that there are some people who refuse to play even easier RPGs because of how much time is required.
Getting Sacrifices in SJ or other items which eat instant death attacks for you are an interesting way of creating a pseudo "lives" system, and there's skills like endure as well.
Lives or save points, it's just a way of determining what happens to the player when they lose. In dragon quest you typically just lose half your money and get teleported back to town (with all party members dead in the more recent games). Progress in terms of EXP is functionally impossible to lose but it requires far more to actually level up so that gold loss is still a big deal.
I think Level Loss is perfectly fair.
If it was permanent STAT LOSS, that would be unfair as fuck since it permanently screws over your character with no way to reverse it. But because it's just level loss, you can just level back up again, with the experience required to level up again not increasing. You will be max level long before the end of KMT anyway.
If we're comparing platformers and Strange Journey, then Sacrifices are more equivalent to powerups or shields because you don't lose any progress if they get eaten. In an RPG, you have to die in battle in order to lose progress, which is why a game over is equivalent to a death in a platformer. However, in an RPG, you get unlimited retries and can set your respawn point at a variety of locations and times. In a platformer, your respawn point is often fixed at the beginning of the level, or at a checkpoint. Furthermore, if you lose too many lives, the game will sometimes flat-out force you start again from level 1.
I've already beaten level 1 a thousand times; why should I be forced to play it again? That's just a waste of my time, and I want to be back at the part where I just died. If anything, Super Mario Bros has more artificial difficulty than Shin Megami Tensei III: Nocturne featuring Dante from the Devil May Cry™ series.
Mario keeps track of points though, a demonstration of player skill being one of the points of the game. Losing progress has less meaning in a game like that because you're supposed to demonstrate consistency in overcoming obstacles to get a high score. Repetition and possibly competition are encouraged by the genre. It's one reason platformers are the most popular speedrun genre, although there are those who will do it with RPGs.
The speedruns of RPGs I've seen rely a lot more on knowledge of game mechanics/bugs and action order than reflexes and timing, also.
>I've already beaten level 1 a thousand times; why should I be forced to play it again? That's just a waste of my time, and I want to be back at the part where I just died
You're treating video games like a movie or book that randomly impedes you from finishing it. It's not like that. It's like if you were playing football and you say "look, we've played the first half of the game a million times, let's just skip to half-time."
If you think being forced to play through a part of a video game is a waste of your time, then maybe you don't enjoy video games as much as you think you do.
I don't think SMTIV gets enough praise for its attention to detail. I'm on my first replay of the game and I'm just astounded by how often NPC dialogue changes and how much shit I missed the first time through
You're taking my argument too literally. Think about if Nocturne had a lives system. You start out with five lives, and if you get five game overs, you have to start over from the beginning of the game. Wouldn't you think that's unreasonable? You don't really gain anything from replaying the Shinjuku Hospital level over and over again. That's a challenge you've already overcome.
Football isn't really analogous, because it's a competition between people. There's not a real measure of "progress" that makes sense. If you defeat another team in a tournament, there's no real system in place that allows you go back and compete with them again within the same tournament. When someone calls for a rematch, it's usually under the pretense that circumstances are different. It's not like playing the first level of Mario over and over again.
>Think about if Nocturne had a lives system. You start out with five lives, and if you get five game overs, you have to start over from the beginning of the game. Wouldn't you think that's unreasonable? You don't really gain anything from replaying the Shinjuku Hospital level over and over again. That's a challenge you've already overcome.
except mario also has 3 continues and chances to gain extra lives
I kind of ignored your post to respond to that other guy, but "demonstrate consistency" is a goal in RPG speedruns too. There's a lot of strategies that are kind of luck-based, so when you put a route together you don't want to choose strategies that will result in completing the game only 1 in 2000 times. You want somewhat consistent strategies so that there's a reasonable expectation that you'll complete the game, though it's good to have YOLO strats in your back pocket anyway, just in case you're barely behind pace for a new personal best, or need to make up time in a race somehow.
>except mario also has 3 continues and chances to gain extra lives
are you saying that if Nocturne had these things, it would be a reasonable game design choice?
I would think it's unreasonable, but not for the reasons you do. I would be upset at the tens of hours of lost progress that I'd invested in my character. There's a huge difference between 20 hours of time investment lost in an RPG and 3 hours lost from a platformer.
The thing is, a single player video game is a competition as well. It's you versus the game. If you beat the game, you "win". Some developers are moving away from that philosophy these days with cinematic games that are more like interactive movies, but others are sticking true to it. Playing the first level of mario can be different every time. You can get hit somewhere, lose or gain a powerup, die twice and only have one life remaining for the next level, and how you make it through that level affects how you'll go through the rest of the game.
What does all this shit even mean?
I wouldn't look at "the shinjuku hospital level" as a level in the same way World 1-1 is for mario. In the sense that you can constantly get xp and macca, you do get stronger to carry yo towards the end of the game, if that's the level of risk you want. You can also pick up cheap fusion fodder if that's what you're looking for.
>Football isn't really analogous, because it's a competition between people. There's not a real measure of "progress" that makes sense. If you defeat another team in a tournament, there's no real system in place that allows you go back and compete with them again within the same tournament
If the tournament is double elimination, you could see people or teams play each other multiple times. Depends on the sport or event. Things are pretty rarely "winner take all" after one event though; basketball, soccer, hockey, baseball, starcraft, Counterstrike, all have "best of" series.
They do in a sense replay the same things in order to measure consistency of skill.
You seem to have a much more goal-oriented perspective than I do. I don't care about being forced to start over if the content is different. The "investment" doesn't really mean anything, I just don't like being forced to waste time doing things I already did.
For example, I enjoy roguelikes, and a death in those can represent an extreme loss of time invested. But I'm fine with that, because when I start over, the game is different. I'm not being forced to overcome challenges I've already overcome.
Yeah, but in double elimination, you aren't being forced to re-compete with the same team because you lost further up the ladder and need to make back progress. It doesn't really make sense.
Yeah, I get that. It's everything else I don't understand.
Why is the dude symbol between the letters? What's with all the A's? What is a Survival es, or a Leather Gov for that matter?
The equip names are too long for the space so they go over (or rather, under) the symbols and other elements. It's Survival Vest, Leather Boots, Leather Gloves. This isn't that hard to figure out, anon.
>trying to be more focused lately
>trying not to fap
>been a while
>see this thumbnail
>it IS a pretty shitty translation in general, added llines that weren't there originally
Like what? As far as I know it's pretty darn accurate. It sure beats the hell out of the ""official"" iOS version's translation
Part of the reason the official iOS translation is so bad is because the iOS japanese version is censored from the original, so it seems like ATLUS USA toned things down, when they didn't, that was ATLUS japan.
>Source is having played both versions.
That's not very convincing. Don't take it personally, but I don't tend to believe random anons say and would prefer more solid confirmation.
Japanese is vague enough in general that you can embellish a script and it would still be an accurate translation. The opposite is also true, of course.
Fan translations tend to take more risks, though.
I believe you anon. It's a very natural thing after all.
It's okay, the actual girls of DeSu 2 aren't much to care for, anyway
If I remember right, a Japanese speaking anon took a look at the original SNES Japanese script. Turns out Aeon Genesis missed with it a bit. An example is making the Law Hero sound like an asshole.
>people arguing over SMT1 again
Guess I need to repost from yesterday.
Anyway in Japan the PSX versions are definitive anyway, they are advertised as such on the Japanese PSN Store and they definitely are from gameplay and visual perspective.
GBA version is a downgrade in pretty much every single way compared to SNES and PSX versions, and iOS is a port of the GBA version.
As for censorship, it's not as much "censored" as it's toned down. A lot messages are cut out due to ATLUS USA being either lazy or stupid, can't tell. They had the ability to add new text boxes but they chose not to, so I say they were censoring and being lazy at the same time.
Here's a very good article by a person very fluent in Japanese and most likely an actual Japanese since he knows history of Japan well that compares the Aeon Gensis translation, Atlus USA iOS translation and original Japanese script and points out the censorship in Atlus USA version.
STUPID SHIT WON'T LET ME POST THE LINKS, FUCK YOU MOOT, WHY THE FUCK CAN'T WE POST BLOGSPOT LINKS?
Links in the pastebin here because moot is a faggot:
Read all of it to have a good idea.
Atlus USA iOS translation is toned down, but "more faithful" in that it didn't add new text that wasn't originally there so to speak. It is however censored/toned down and does have text completely cut in some places for no reason.
AG translation is more "embellished" but as such offers much more enjoyable experience. It's also worth noting that the embelishment is due to the nature of Japanese language leaving a lot to interpretation in translation, so in a way it's still accurate, just interpreted differently.
>inb4 that's a long tl;dr
Much shorter than 4 giant walls of text.
Yes. The example they give here is really good:
2. Ore wa "kami" ga nigate de ne.
3. Literal: I'm no good with God.
4. DS: God's no friend of mine.
5. Overclocked: I follow no god.
All three are accurate translations. But they have vastly different implications, and affect the way the reader understands the story. AG took the approach 5 most often with SMT1, while ATLUS took approach 3 most often with the iOS version.
Literal translations are almost always the worst type of translations. They are generally very frowned upon by professionals, especially when it comes to books.
Because AG has been working on translating the game since the 90s and released it only in 2002? And iOS version is the worst one by the way.
It may have just been awkward phrasing of what Law Hero wanted to say though.
I thought that was really obvious. When I hear him say "try not to feel to bad", I don't hear him saying it in an asshole voice, I hear him saying it in a sympathetic voice, like "don't worry, it'll be okay", that kind of thing. He's trying to console him but not doing the best job at it.
>yfw in the middle of P5 they
open door-kun and walk inside to find themselves in Nocturne where the protagonist becomes Demifiend and everyone else becomes Nocturne's NPCs, and after getting TDE he goes on to battle the DDS castand also door-kun is returned to normal
Same. It's funny to think he's an asshole, but really the guy just wanted to do right by everyone. He just happened to be incredibly awkward due to how serious he could be, like in that one visionary item with his girlfriend.
For starters SMT1 snes script is a fucking mess. SMT2 and If will be much easier to do.
Script problems aside, we still need VWF done, but currently Devil Summoner has priority on that.
A fixed re-release of SMT1 (SNES) with backported If... improvements and a release of SMT If... (SNES) should come out by the end of the year as well.
Those are AG's projects.
PSX is being made by Canzah and EsperKnight, AG is only lending his script.
I'm not too sure about that. Even all of the ellipses would imply there's a lot of silence inbetween what he said, so he was definitely trying to find the right words. He just failed spectacularly.
And with AG's embellishments, I kind of wonder if cultural differences made it necessary to phrase things like they did so the situation would seem more natural to us. Like with Chaos Hero's outburst around here. The situation was changed slightly in their translation to make it so that Chaos Hero was getting on Law Hero for being so damn awkwardly insensitive, whereas in the original it was that he was so quick to try consoling Hero. We don't really have that "sparing someone their dignity" mentality, so it would seem like the bigger dick move to just ignore someone grieving. I'm probably reading too much into it though.
>these pitfalls on the last floor of Infini
Man, I never liked shit like this cause it's just tedious. It's not challenging since I can just auto the battles at this point. If there were some way to tell where they were then that would be fine but there isn't.
Shit that's impossible to make look good without some heavy hacking.
Either you limit the character printing to 8 (so there is a space between the last character of the item and the gender symbols), or you put a VWF and somehow fit every item into that tiny space.
VWF = Variable Width Font
SMT1 and SMT2 fonts are of fixed width, so every character has a fixed width of 8x8 (or 12x12 for SMT2's text boxes).
See >>79291541 and how "awkward" is condensed while "ill" has a lot of spacing between letters. "w" is wide and "i" is very thin, but since each occupies a 8x8 space they have the same width.
Notice how this doesn't happen in KMT >>79241159
KMT did originally have a fixed width font because most Japanese characters have the same width, but the translator hacked a VWF into the game.
This way the text looks a lot better and you can fit a lot more text in screen.
>SMT1 and SMT2 fonts are of fixed width
FYI, so is If... in original Japanese.
Actually end of this year.
SMT1 re-release with If...'s improvements (like VWF) and fixed bugs and If... itself.
SMT2 will be next year.
PSX is on "when it's done" mentality but I'd love to get it out before end of the year, however that only depends on Esper at this point and Devil Summoner takes priority.