/shmupg/ - Shoot 'em Up General

>>186058194
garegga is better

Espgaluda is pretty relaxing desu. Nothing really difficult at all until Mothula shows up.

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>iMalice
>Ever coming out

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Mahou Daisakusen >>>>> Buttrider

>>186062468
both dad shit

>>186062468
Who is best Mahou? I'm digging Bornham.

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>>186062587
Chitta is best waifu desu

>>186062468
pea brain detected, muh only shoot n move.

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>tfw every squire grooktook farm post includes a nauseating ign tier review.

>>186063587
His reviews are perfectly fine

THE HARDEST VIDEO GAME BOSS EVER

>>186064910
>squire detected

Mate every shit post he makes has to be accompanied by one, such a retarded infant.

>>186063441
that's all a shmup need 2bh, although mahou's problem is that compilesque pace at times

>>186063441
you must have a pebble brain since you can't 2-all it

>>186067093
>that's all a shmup need 2bh
>2000 games
>all the same

Yeah man thats all we need.

>>186067118
>you must have a pebble brain since you can't 2-all it
Pebbles are bigger than peas and how you know i can't?

>>186067326
how are xevious. gradius and truxton the same, are u dumb

>>186067832
gradius introduced options so isn't the same and various shot types, are YOU dumb?

>>186067965
it's still just shoot 'n move like the game you dissed, are u dumb

>>186068287
try tampax.

>>186063441
Medaling is harder in Mahou than in butrider

>>186070156
what medalling? those are power up iconms and irrelevant, now try chaining batrider last advanced on above normal rank.

>>186070346
stupid? there regularly appear coin bags on the top of the screen, which you have to point-blank to get all coins, kinda like in Viper Phase

>>186070425
they are power ups for shot and no not the type icons they increase stable shot.

>>186070561
They still give extra points though, and are basically like medaling, just without chains.
if you play for score you constantly have to get them all, which s really difficult.

>>186070657
it isn't the same though is it, it's autistic dad scoring exploiting something even the devs didnt care about, yes it may be difficult.

>>186070956
>exploiting something even the devs didnt care about
Got any source for that? The score you get from collecting coins decently is quite significant.

>>186071120
its fucking obvious you daft cunt that's why the value is static and only attributed after max power is reached, fuck outta here autismo dadling.

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rate

>>186071326
>that's why the value is static
It's an old game, stupid. They probably didn't even think about chaining systems back then. And it's not like it isn't already hard enough without chaining.

>only attributed after max power is reached
And? That's only smart. That way they kill two birds with one stone. Devs constantly did this, also with bombs for example.

>>186071610
>It's an old game, stupid
yes before score systmes even existed, scoring systems were response to players playing for score in autistic ways they didnt expect, like you say with bombs the whole scoring was based around rewards for perfect survival. Fuck me you're to young to know fuck all about arcades, go away and stop replying ffs.

>>186071610
fucking even by esprade in 97 cave didn't expect shit thats why the fucked up with overly long boss timers "we didn't expect anyone to do it!" and that's in a game WITH a scoring system.

>>186071759
>scoring systems were response to players playing for score in autistic ways they didnt expect
Bullshit. If they didn't expect this, then they wouldn't give the player points for it.
It's the exact same as fucking medaling, ecept it doesn't have chaining and also powers up your shot.

You are just pulling shit out of your ass.

>>186071870
>You are just pulling shit out of your ass.
no its a fact of development, study your history plebian. Now fuck off i'm ignoring you from here on in.

>>186071832
>cave
There you have your problem.
Cave is incompetent and has overly complicated scoring systems.
Mahou scoring is not complicated, that's why it's sure that the devs surely noticed that the power ups function as medals too.

>>186071918
>says it's a fact
>can't give any source
Yea nah, you are just pulling shit

>>186072068
go read some shmupulations....no im not spoonfeeding baby again.

>>186071759
>before score systmes even existed
Guy, even space invaders already had scoring systems
Fuck off

>>186072109
I already read lots of shmuplations, you are full of shit
Sure, scoring systems were partly response to playstyles of players, but that#s doesn't mean that the medaling in Mahou was not intended as medaling.

>playing dad games for score
lol? just when i thought shmupg couldnt sink any lower

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>>186072210
>>186072068
>>186071967
>>186071870

First time I made it to last stage in Strikers loop 2 practice. Wiiiju, already lost hope getting any better.

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rate my futari original 1cc

>>186071436
never played bullet soul, but good job I guess

>>186076605
You have beaten ISO. That must mean you are an exceptional player

>>186076605
not bad, good basis to build on.

>>186076602
>can't beat dad game with kusoplayer shippu
What has Germany become?

>>186076935
>dad game
It's not a dad game, it's crypto danmaku

>>186076935
>kusoplayer shippu
Neger, try playing that ship and come back to me. There probably is a reason why everyone only uses Messerschmidt

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>>186077034
>crypto danmaku

anything made before dodonpachi is dad game

i think i fucking love batrider, this is the first game where i enjoy everything, graphics, music, gameplay and scoring, everything is just perfect.

>>186077425
after dodonpachi is shit, dadgon over dragon.

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/shmupg/, you died...

>>186086846
>/shmupg/, you died...
we realized harry is a false prophet who deosn't even play shmups, all struggles became futile.

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I'm beginning to understand why Jaimers - a high-tier player - wastes his time to play shitty games like the latest poohous. He doesn't do it because he actually likes these games, he does it in hopes to promote the genre.
Weebs is the primary audience that you can get interested in shmups for a variety of reasons: their blind acceptance of everything nipponish, their readyness to devote time and effort required to appreciate this kind of media, their experience in searching for obscure things. They are straight up prone to love shmups.
So a weeb learns that poohou16 is out, he follows the hype and gets the game, he sucks in it - though it is pretty difficult to suck in poohou16 - and starts lurking to get better. He discovers the jaimers youtube channel and learns about many other stgs, and there is an odd chance that he will stick to the genre and become a part of the community.
It's also the reason why CAVE is still staying afloat - they are wise enough to cater to weebs.
By bullying weebs and weebish games in this general we basically aggravate the decline of the genre. We should stop doing so.

>>186091691
cool story, but most likely he just plays them for fun.
also, you have to be autistic to think anyone bullies weebs, it's just banter by people who play the same weeb shit(i.e. any shmup).

>>186091529
>He doesn't do it because he actually likes these games, he does it in hopes to promote the genre.

haha no he doesn't he does it to promote himself and create a stable enough fanbase to make money from, precisely why he wastes his talent on 1cc collecting instead of going for an epic score, my nigga jaimers wants to get paymoarz

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>>186089716
That's the funny thing, yesterday was the first time in like a month that I played Deathsmiles. I didn't have internet all weekend, so I wound up playing it a bit. And when I came back, /shmupg/ had died! Perhaps it's a curse...

>>186086846
Someone went on a Love Live thread creation raid earlier and killed off a lot of generals

>>186095257
PLAY ANOTHER SHMUP HARRY.

PLAY PROGEAR HARRY

>>186091691
If he really gave a shit about the state of shmups he'd go out of his way to inform 2hufags that other shmups even exist and encourage playing them. If you really want to understand Jaimers' intentions, look at his fucking Undertale videos.

>>186097984
these undertale vids are probably the only ones that turned any noticeable profit, so if he wanted youtube money he'd still be playing undertale or some undertale fangames.

>>186086846
Look at the archive, someone was spamming threads.

>>186071436
Show me the BS leaderboards and then I'll r8

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>>186096063
>>186100072
Well that's unfortunate.

>>186096962
too busy playing mobage

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>>186105923
>mobage

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Today I have a rather good Armed Police Batrider high-scoring clear by CLP: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eu6HUzB82b4

Still waiting for replays, as usual. If you feel like you have any clear worth uploading, feel free to send it in!

>>186106765
GOING FOR THE WORM

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>>186109584
>m actual fw
it is a little way off my pb paces but it's IN DA BANK so now i play all out aiming for I.

>>186070657
WTF are you making shit up for? that's peanuts, the only notable source of points in mahou daisakusen is killing everything, and the main deal breaker in a score run is the stage 4 boss milk in both loops which is hoping you get the right RNG over and over. the game has garbage scoring and doesn't have chaining, the coins just increase your shot power

>>186071326
don't listen to him he's too busy trying to win an argument for an ego boost to go back and check the facts, coins are for shot power, not score

>>186110352
>don't listen to him he's too busy trying to win an argument for an ego boost to go back and check the facts, coins are for shot power, not score
yeah i know mate, dudes a plum and i played mahou a bunch myself ages ago.

>>186106765
Just a better Deviate and Grubby and you'll beat my run. tried milking deviate without options? it's not easy but worth the trouble at this level. a big Grubby milk is worth twice the amount you got out of him so that's a big improvement to look for. I might remember wrong but I think you lost 50k from no aura on green toothpaste. mainly though it's just survival milk the mayhem. I see some other things here and there. pretty sure you should be hugging gob-robo's shoulder when he's firing bullets. better to double bomb the madball thingies on stage 6. Nice run though gonna keep working on it?

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>>186106765
That's some good shit, nice job Cee.

>>186112905
Yeah man i've had E.6 pace entering the last stage but this run was more about getting something down as it's just how i work now i don't feel frustrated going all out. Grubby had trolled my runs to many times around the period so i forfeited his potential and i actually have all new strats now for stage 3 and deviate which has me leaving stage with with 5.2 mill average. Why would i need 2 bombs on the madballs though? i usually wait to the last moment and use 1 for both, am i losing something by doing this?

>>186112916
ty anon

>>186112905
to add i lose the E.6 last stage run to getting blind shot from behind by a little CUNT under that stupid invisible cover bit at the beginning, that shit is annoying.

nice to see a healthy 77 viewers enjoying aquas playing gradius 4, i have noticed this before that normies/general gamers tend to be attracted and intrigued by gradius games I always figured it's because they are hori and more rellatable or something.

>>186114985
No I think you're right, I'm misremembering the madballs here. Might be 2 bobms with a different character I'm thinking.

>>186115743
And yeah I know about that grubby shit, back when I was doing team runs I've had a fucking dozen of them just game over either on the end of stage 6 or on grubby, or on bashi R/glowsquid. that was harsh. I got a better handle on grubby when I was focusing on carpet solo later though, thankfully.

>>186115993
Grubbys issue for me is how the game slowdown fucks response time, feels like some neo shit as you watch a "blue line" echo towards you and kill a good second after you pressed bomb and tried to panic wiggle. Still loving the carpet solo and i'm curious to see how high i can go, i think you know a games for you when the "goal" is just a backseat fixture behind just simply enjoying playing.

>>186116692
Always found it really easy to just churn in my credits in batrider myself, which you'd think could be an issue considering the length and how possible game overs are always around the corner. definitely a love for the presentation and atmosphere playing a role there, game just wants you to go in and kick some fucking ass. though I do feel some major frustration over the goddamn phantom deaths that can occur

going back to the previous discussion of batrider vs garegga in garegga i pretty much always felt that putting in another credit is a fucking chore. stages 2 and 3 especially are a fucking joke that just bores me out of my mind. what a goddamn disaster. meanwhile in batrider you just get thrown into a really eventful first few stages with just a few more boring bumps in the run in the form of some bosses.

>>186117494
fully agree garegga has some really obvious pacing issues and honestly has the streets of rage 2 effect (decent game elevated to deity status by the sound track) whilst batrider early as stage 2 boss is immediately risky with the only questionable thing really being gob robo although even then it's not to offensive (i figured if you get the medal arms first you have around 400k of milk before he fucks off). Actually i have a full retard question for you because i honestly am not sure, is there anyway to activate the sobut and envy with carpet solo? wasn't sure if i was just missing them out.

>>186118183
No way to activate them without batrider ships at least nothing i've heard of

Gob-Robo is a piece of crap but at least he's not too boring cause you gotta stay awake to score

>>186118732
so then chum return to buttwiper when?

Caladrius Blaze is 50% off on Steam atm (12.49usd down from 24.99usd)

>>186119634
unlikely but you never know what the future holds. all i have interest in doing from this point on is team scoring with high stakes so think 25 mil area goals for starters. the problem is that im not mentally prepared for it, have too much irl stuff in the way like crappy eyes and financial situation and if would rather do other stuff when able just working on double spoiler especially.

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It died again you fucks.

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>>186120274
see
>>186096063
>>186100072

>>186106765
looks boring as fuck

>>186120269
sorry to hear that, gotta do what you gotta do.

>>186120512
(you)

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holy shit, how to play this game
so many shits on screen

>>186119692
http://igg-games.com/caladrius-blaze-free-download.html

>>186124296
You ever used this place before? Looks sketch as fuck

>>186091691
>he does it in hopes to promote the genre
what's the proof? I only see more 2hu fags flocking
on the other hand guys streaming on twitch like aquas promote shumps better because I see more people playing it even though most of them are retro games, but it's all good

>>186128150
yes

>>186091691
Touhou is good, fuck off cave faggot

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>>186129501
>Touhou is good

Has any good soul got a link for update 1.1.2.8 or 1.1.3.0 for Mushihimesama?

>>186131482
i have 1.1.2.0

>>186132586
does yours sometimes lag too?

>>186132935
yeah, especially on stage 3

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Bahmpu~

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>>186091691
>cater to weebs
can someone explain this? is the only reason people say this the fact that there is a 10 second picture of an anime girl in between stages?

>>186110352
>coins are for shot power, not score
sure, thats also why any serious scorer will try to grab them all, no matter how risky

>>186141378
Yes but more importantly promotional material which is what attracts the normies

>>186144052
what a fucking autistic reason to disparage perfectly good games
blue revolver a best though

>>186146328
>perfectly good games
touhou is shmups for little girls

>>186147305
that's good
I'm a girl btw

>>186146328
>autistic
True and unsurprisingly our local g*rman is the one who complains the most

>>186147883
. S
. T
CREAM
. E
. A
. M

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Bahmpu~

Waywardsera just went live with some unfortunate fish bullying in Darius Burst

twitch tv waywardsera

>>186148117
>our local g*rman
Wasn't me who complained there, dipshit.
I don't care if people play touhou. If they like kitchy girly games, let them be.

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>>186149770
Nothing's unfortunate about fish bullying.

In fact, fish bullying is to be encouraged!

>>186122373
It's easy as shit. I got a 2-all on my first credit.

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>>186154850
>>186157618

>>186160842
wow you're a tough guy huh

>>186164963
No, I'm awful and I still managed that. It's like "Batsugun Special 1-all" easy.

>>186165079
you must think you're such a badass

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>>186165205
Whose posts are you reading? Surely not mine.

>improve at loop 2
>play like shit at loop 1 again
>be good at loop 1 again
>forget routes for loop 2 again
>practice loop 2 again
>play like shit at loop 1 again
>rinse and repeat

>>186165830
>get consistent at loop 2
>start doing runs
>played loop 1 so much that I got used to the easier difficulty
>repeat

>>186147883
>I'm a girl btw

No you aren't.

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Last bahmpu before bed~

Keep flying, /shmupg/

So, there was some kind of interview with CAVE posted in the previous thread(before it got washed away), then everybody started saying "CAVE is dead" or something...

So what was that all about? And yeah, why is Touhou 16 still listed as "upcoming" even though it's been out for 4 days now?

>>186177161
You mean the show on youtube? Cave was just shilling their mobile game and it's obvious that they are pretty dead (at least regarding shmup developement).

>>186177161
>posted in the previous thread(before it got washed away)
its linked at the top you twat

Please continue

>>186180652
10

>>186177374
Yeah, I've looked at it, and there doesn't seem to be much hope in regards to it(and you know how it is with mobile shmups and mobile games in general). I guess that's just because the entirety of the niche CAVE was occupying is now collapsing, with the mostly difficulty-oriented rather than content-oriented formula becoming stale in the end. Sure, it may be skull-crushingly difficult, but that doesn't really matter if the game has nothing interesting or new to offer gameplay wise. That's also the reason the Touhoulike "formula", which puts more emphasis on content and overall design rather than "pure difficulty", seems to be winning out in the long run. Even MORE interesting are games which combine elements of bullet hell shooters with other genres(Enter The Gungeon, Nuclear Throne, Undertale to some extent etc.)

Now, before the tryhard player comes in and calls me a "pussy who plays piss easy boring games", consider this: you're in the minority here. While at your "dodonpachi ketsui TLB" level, Touhou and the likes would be very easy, for most people, the challenge they provide would be enough to keep them fun for a while, not to mention, as mentioned above, the latter wins out content-wise.

>>186182227
>Touhoulike "formula"
>puts more emphasis on content and overall design
>sloppy ugly poojin with less modes than the average cave port
wrong

>>186182227
This is bait.

>>186182385
>Most likely has never played any of the Touhou games

>>186182413
>Tryhards don't realize they're losing out in the end, it's simple, really

>>186182497
No argument just assumptions typical poohufag

>>186182227
The problem with touhou is not that's too easy. The problem is that they are lazily designed.

>>186182542
This too, there are many well liked easier arcade games

JAMESTOWN
AMESTOWNJ
MESTOWNJA
etc.

>>186182538
All the "modes" in the CAVE games barely even add anything new to them. especially since...
>>186182542
Though I admit some parts of the Touhou games are designed lazily(books, Remilia, those goddamn flying saucers, Junko, HSiFS stage 5), at least it's better than CAVE's extremely generic, boring, and at parts, even lazier design(hypersonic bullets, junkorings before Junko even existed, the games being extremely stingy with resources as a way to cheaply increase difficulty, the ungodly annoying delay on focusing, oh yeah not to mention every CAVE TLB ever). Also I'd say more effort and creativity goes into designing Touhou-like bosses with their spell card patterns(Unless, of course, you're talking EoSD, that game I admit IS the epitome of lazy shmup design) take more effort or at least creativity to design than CAVE's bosses.

And while Touhou and Touhou-like games have their flaws, those are by no means the flaws of the formula.
>>186182927 For me at least, Touhou, no matter what, seems to have some kind of "charm" to it that many of the games in genre do not.

>>186183743
>at least it's better than CAVE
I'm not a big fan of Cave, but you are just retarded. Touhou is just a poojin, and a pretty generic one at that. It's overrated as fuck. If you wanna play a good doujin, then play Satazius.

Please go back to /jp/ where you come from

>>186183743
Many of the modes are almost like different games with heavily modified patterns, enemy spawns, balancing and revamped scoring systems. Youre basically getting the equivalent of multiple Touhou games in a single package. Just admit that youre a pedophile and be done with it, no need yo go to such great lengths to justify it

>>186183743
>Touhou, no matter what, seems to have some kind of "charm" to it
Yea, it's called hentai porn

>>186183939
>>186184079
>>186184212
Lol, I'm judging those things solely based on the overall experience and the impression I'm getting. Not to mention I'm talking not JUST about Touhou, but also about games inspired by it(which there are loooots of). Would you say the entire FORMULA Touhou employs is worse than that the likes of Dodonpachi and Mushihimesama? I don't think so.

And then we have stuff like Isaac, Nuclear Throne and Gungeon which imo are even better though entirely different.

>>186184740
What do you mean formula? Slow bullets, slow movement, large playing field, endless resources, short almost non existent levels, drawn out boss fights and ugly graphics? No. The games are low energy and kind of a chore to play to be honest.

>>186184740
>Would you say the entire FORMULA Touhou employs is worse than that the likes of Dodonpachi and Mushihimesama? I don't think so.
Absolutely yes i would, touhou has no ounce of character just a strict template for every release where stages are just backgrounds that seemingly travel no where and enemies copy paste postioned with a same old mid boss and same old boss complete with wanky dialogue because it's a false version of depth that they couldn't achieve with coherent visual story telling via landscapes.

>>186184740
>Would you say the entire FORMULA Touhou employs is worse than that the likes of Dodonpachi and Mushihimesama?
The only "formula" which made Touhou so popular is, that somehow spawned so many fan creations. The fanart of Touhou is 10 times better than the actual art in the games. I'm not quite sure how it spawned so much fan creations, but that's the case why it is so popular.

I wouldn't be suprised if the Touhou Project was sponsored by Soros to destroy Japanese culture.

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>eat too big of a lunch
>now sleepy and can't play shmups
Bad idea.

and those laser wheels in DDP Resurrection stage 5 are retarded and I can't find a way to get through there without getting ruined.

>>186185350
Nah. I'd say slow bullets in Touhou are used well in most cases, plus it's not like there are no patterns with fast shots; the resources are not "endless" in most cases though are fairly plentiful(unless you mean MoF, LoLK or HSiFS which ARE kind of broken in that regard). The levels are only "short and practically non-existent" in like what... Imperishable Night? As for the graphics, for me, they've always looked a lot "cleaner" than those in the newer CAVE titles.

Now the biggest parts of the "formula" I'm talking about is the whole spell/nonspell-based boss fights, grazing and PoC-based scoring(which imo can add a LOT more depth than people give it credit for) and a LOT more variation on the resource system. Oh yeah, and no cancer mechanics such as rank, button-tapping or delayed focusing.

>>186183712
what

cave i shit

>>186183939
you just hater without any arguments
touhou is good shoot em up

>>186188250
I don't hate Touhou. I have respect for ZUN. Touhou are fun games, however, they are incredibly overrated by low IQ players and weebs. There is nothing special about them.

>graphics and artstyle
Nonexisting backgrounds, shitty art

>music
Kitchy and generic, gets completely blown out of the water by doujins like ChoRenSha or Kamui

>gameplay
Dodging patterns inspired by Cave and grazing. That's pretty much it. Nothing special.

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>tfw you forget how to 1cc a game

>>186188250
>touhou is good shoot em up
No they're lazily churned out soulless games with kaleidoscope patterns.

>>186189904
>kaleidoscope patterns
That's pretty much the only thing which makes them unique. However, the rest of them is just boring. To me, they rather feel like a bullet pattern algorithm demo than an actual shmup

>>186189904
>lazily churned out soulless games

Nah, that title goes to CAVE.

Best doujin is really ChoRenSha. That game is just fabulous (even though it lacks backgrounds).

>>186188729
The music in touhou games is astonishingly superb. The arrangements are indeed repetitive, but Zun is a fucking wizard of the harmony and counterpoint, the variety of compositional techniques and how on point they are is insane.

gee i wonder who the low iq player here is.

>>186187703
If by cleaner you mean no effort then sure

>>186191368
They sound like chinese elevator tunes. They are the equivalent to a kitchy Thomas Kinkade painting. I'm not saying that there isn't any effort put into them, but ZUN just doesn't understand how to create catchy melodies and sounds.

>>186191832
You don't even understand the difference between arrangement and melody. Your judgement of music is philistine.

>>186192418
>look at all the foreign words I'm using, that will surely prove my point and doesn't just make me look like a stuck up faggot

>>186192418
Stop being a pretentious fartsniffer, he gave no indication what so ever that he was talking about the arrangement when he said melodies

>>186190342
>Nah, that title goes to CAVE.
later cave absolutely, both them and touhou are guilty but at least caves early catalog is stunning.

>>186192834
>Stop being a pretentious fartsniffer
considering the audience i think you mean diaper sniffer.

>>186192834
Again, he doesn't understand what is melody and what is arrangement, he judges the music by his personal associations and feelings. Which is perfectly fine when you want to tell whether you like the music or not. I'm okay with him saying
>They sound like chinese elevator tunes
because he clearly doesn't mean that touhou tunes are structurally as bland and simplistic as elevator music, he just finds them sounding similar and doesn't enjoy them.
But it stops being fine when you take the discussion to the objective level - which is what he is doing by saying
>Kitchy and generic
>ZUN just doesn't understand how to create catchy melodies
This is simply not true. He is objectively a great composer, but a mediocre sound designer, sounds is indeed not his strongest side. Somehow he did better when he was using Roland SC-88Pro: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coZsnhQyozM&list=PLzdQcm51guT8_7wBWFgEZia3FcGqeEqbx

>>186195925
Mediocre is putting it lightly, he's absolutely terrible at it and shows no signs of wanting to improve. It's a real waste if you ask me, it's like the guy never moved past his low quality keyboard presets

>>186196561
It's the superior Japanese way if VN soundtracks and the like are anything to go by.

>>186196808
Nips work in mysterious ways. Did he ever comment on it in interviews? Guess he finds it endearing or something.

>>186196561
>Mediocre is putting it lightly
this his sound use is ccwi tier bad and thats going some.

>>186196983
This triggers the kraut

>>186196983
>comparing ccwi music to 2hu
ccwi is a masterpiece and pumps you up like a true classic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_SW3Zw6wpU&index=12&list=PL8B6644AA0ACFACBF

It's exactly how shmup music should sound like
Hard-to the fucking-core

>>186197442
I still think Dark Clouds is the best of the soundtrack

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>>186197442
lmao that wanky tinny shite synth guitar sound makes my fucking dick itch.

>>186197340
>This triggers the kraut

>>186198178
Your shite taste doesn't surprise me in the slightest, nigel
To me CCWI is one of the soundtracks. Only OST which is still better is Ikaruga. This just plays in its own league
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNgeKGX6Fuk

>>186198357
Some monotonous JRPG shit right there

>>186198357
at least that has clean high quality sounding production, ccwi is babies first fruity loops tier. K.H.D.N, manubu namiki and zuntata DOMINATE shmup sound tracks so go stick your faggot low quality fart bass tunes up your cock.

>>186198773
>clean high quality sounding production
I don#t care so much about this. Unclean sound can also fit to shmups, since it sounds more raw and unfiltered. Shmups are a hardcore genre, and raw sound fits to this, similar like many hardcore punk bands for example deliberately use low quality sounds. because it fits to the hardcore aspect of the genre.

>zuntata
The DBCS soundtrack is fantastic, I agree with that, but it's not hardcore enough for the genre. They may be better musicians, but they are not better STG music developer.

>>186199110
>>zuntata
>The DBCS soundtrack is fantastic, I agree with that, but it's not hardcore enough for the genre. They may be better musicians, but they are not better STG music developer.

>not mentioning metal black or border down

PLEBIAN LEAVE.

>>186199415
The OST of boarder down is really not that special. Under Defeat had a better soundtrack.
And again, I'm not saying Zuntata isn't good, but they just don't hit the feeling of shmups correctly.
Jazz music like in Boarder Down is nice, but it's too calm for a hardcore action genre like shmups.

>>186199684
>The OST of boarder down is really not that special. Under Defeat had a better soundtrack.

this is why no one takes you seriously.

>>186199781
Boarder Down is just too calm.

Speaking of great soundtracks, Raiden IV is also one of my favorites.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fb4L2rNqe34

>>186200716
>Speaking of great soundtracks, Raiden IV is also one of my favorites.

Shut up you german twat, we GET IT every game you like also has the best sound track, god you're predictable. Psyvariar revision alone pisses over everyone of your shit suggestions.

>>186200595
you havent heard it all then, the last boss tune is top tier.

>>186200895
>Psyvariar revision
now thats really touhou-tier

>>186201001
The OST literally has a song called "Walk in the park". And it also sounds like a walk in the park.

Do you honestly think such music fits to an action genre like shmups? I think not.

Blue Revolver got it right.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhDm40IJGOU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFEuPq_lBMA

>>186199684
I think the fact that Zuntata doesn't do "hardcore" music for shmups is what makes the games with their music so special and great. They defy expectations and pre-conceived notions as to what constitutes as appropriate music for shmups and games in general.
Whereas others go for crazy guitar-shredding and synths, Zuntata just do whatever they want. They play around with rhythms and abstract sounds, they do various different genres and lots of stuff that defies categorisation too.

CCWI's music is pretty hit or miss for me. Original stage 2 track is the pretty good though, has a really nice progression and it's rather dramatic.

>>186203871
>the fact that Zuntata doesn't do "hardcore" music for shmups is what makes the games with their music so special and great.
Zuntata are not the first who don't do "hardcore" music for shmups. There are many shmups with rather calm music (R-Type Final for example), or "happy" music (Parodius), or adventure-like music (Gradius), or RPG-like (Radiant Silvergun), or whatever. They are all great and fit to their games, but it's not perfect for the genre. CCWI was developed with the idea of being the ULTIMATE stg, and it really comes close to it.

What makes Zuntata special to me, is how experimental their music is. They are very expressionistic and bizzare.

>>186204951
>CCWI was developed with the idea of being the ULTIMATE stg, and it really comes close to it.

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>>186204951
>CCWI
>ULTIMATE stg

>>186206338
It's true. TAC said it in an interview. He didn't just want to make another shmup, he wanted to make THE shmup, and I find you it really shows in the game.

>>186206658
>it's true because the dev promoting his product said so

It's a decent doujin nothing more but has a lot of not problems but weak design and it really is fucking ugly.

Hm. I wonder what this thread thinks of Reflex, Kamui and RefRain ~ Prism Memories...

>>186207159
>it's true because the dev promoting his product said so
Why would he lie about this? It's not like it would sell your game better, just because you say "hurr I wanted to make it the best I could". Nobody interests how hard you work on a product.

If you really think CCWI is just a decent doujin, then you truely have no idea about shmups. The game is way beyond just being a fucking doujin.

>>186208371
>>it's true because the dev promoting his product said so
>Why would he lie about this? It's not like it would sell your game better, just because you say "hurr I wanted to make it the best I could". Nobody interests how hard you work on a product.

Your english is shit that's not what was said at all.

>>186208371
>If you really think CCWI is just a decent doujin, then you truely have no idea about shmups.
You sure you want to go down this path with me? I will happily embarrass you further. Now hear me clearly CCWI is ok but overrated doujin cunt SHIT now fuck off.

>>186207469
GREAT games!!!

>>186209095
>Your english is shit that's not what was said at all.
Your expression skills are shit. What were you then even trying to say when not that he lied? It wasn't really clear what you even were trying to say, dumbfuck, because you either could mean that he lied about having such a goal, or that I think CCWI is the ultimate stg because the developer said that this was his goal.

I do not even think it is the ultimate stg, nor do I think it comes close to it because it was the goal of the developer. Again, you are not even able to follow what I say, and cant even express your thoughts.

>You sure you want to go down this path with me? I will happily embarrass you further.
What makes you think you are more able to judge about what a good game is what not? Because you play the genre longer than me or what? Jaimers is a better player than you and also plays for quite some time, yet he thinks Touhou is a masterpiece and one of the best shmups. Just saying.

You clearly have no idea what defines a good shmup, otherwise you wouldn't play crap like Battle Traverse for example.

>>186207469
Kamui and Reflex are both really good but Alltynex Second is my favourite, never played RefRain.

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Bahmpu~

>>186210458
Look at you... emotional.


Batte traverse is really good though and to use your argument both jaimers and bananadadget rate it highly BOTH BETTER THAN YOU LOL.

>>186210458
>I do not even think it is the ultimate stg, nor do I think it comes close to it because it was the goal of the developer.

>CCWI was developed with the idea of being the ULTIMATE stg, and it really comes close to it.

You can't even stay consistent for 2 posts you spastic shite, fucking direct contradiction right there.

I saw a year-old /shmupg/ thread and I was really surprised to see Cee and Kraut both in there, fighting.

It's interesting that there's so much history behind the eternal battle and that not much seems to have changed! Although there seem to be less people in general.

>>186216980
>jaimers and bananadadget rate it highly
They also rate Touhou highly... Your point?
>BOTH BETTER THAN YOU
Knowing what a good shmup is has little to do with player skills. It much more has to do with having a good sense for art and design.

>>186217165
Where is this not consistent? I said it comes close to it. But not because the developers said that this was his goal. Learn to read before you start arguing, dumbfuck.

>>186209095
>You sure you want to go down this path with me?
you are shit at CCWI and kraut knows 10000x more about it than you
you are far out of your depth little chav

>>186210458
>Jaimers is a better player than you and also plays for quite some time, yet he thinks Touhou is a masterpiece and one of the best shmups.
no he doesn't
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?p=1245768#p1245768

zero touhou votes in his top 25 shmups

>>186218392
>Where is this not consistent? I said it comes close to it. But not because the developers said that this was his goal. Learn to read before you start arguing, dumbfuck.

LMFAO they contain direct contradictions you fucking dickhead, the first says you dont think it comes close to ultimate stg the second says you DO think it comes close to ultimate stg JESUS FUCK Hitler would of fried your thick meathead cunt in the t-4 euthanasia program. You can't read or fucking think autistic queer fuck off and find some more alopecia beaver to draw pedo pants.

>>186218392
>Knowing what a good shmup is has little to do with player skills. It much more has to do with having a good sense for art and design.
So you cant judge whether a game is good or bad if youre not KBR, gotcha

>>186218080
I'm sure you can easily track down 3 year old /vr/ threads where they did the same thing. It's legendary

>>186218729
>zero touhou votes in his top 25 shmups
Yet, he thinks team Shanghai is literally the 3rd best shmup developer. No idea what is going on in this guys mind, but he obviously is a big fan of these games.

>>186219009
>the first says you dont think it comes close to ultimate stg
But that's wrong you fucking retard. I merely said "I do not think it comes close to it, JUST BECAUSE THE DEV SAID IT WAS HIS GOAL". I still think it comes close to it, but not for that reason. LEARN 2 READ!!!!

>>186219253
No, you can't judge if you have no idea about art. I have more idea about art than 99% of people here. And I'm not talking about shitty "art" like your weeb imagery in games like Battle Traverse, I'm talking about real art, the type of art you can look at in galleries.

>>186219550
>I'm sure you can easily track down 3 year old /vr/ threads where they did the same thing.
It started there where i foolishly tried to be helpful anon and provide some satazius advice and a superplay and in return i got.... well him being him.

>>186220494
How often to you still wanna tell that made up bullshit story?
You were not helpful, you were just trying to arrogantly school me, while insulting me for finding one of the stage 4 bosses unbalanced.

I did not ask for your help there, and had a better score than you anyway.

>>186219956
Art is just one aspect of a game, you are lacking knowledge in many other areas and overestimate the importance of the only expertise you have to make your opinion seem more legitimate. What kind of special insights on game design, programming, music and others do you think drawing children gives you?

>>186220709
fuck up you loony choon thats exactly what happened, go dig it up then. You see ALL help as arrogant and offensive which we all know is trademark German.

>>186220803
>Art is just one aspect of a game
The whole product of a game is literally a product of art.
The graphics are art, the music is art, the gameplay design is an art.

Even if it would just be like you think, that merely the graphics are art, then this would be a very important aspect. Creating the backgrounds, sprites, etc is most time consuming and difficult work about making shmups. That's also why many devs could just rehash old code and merely "re-sprite" and rearrange old games (look at many psikyo games for example). However, all kinds of developement aspects are an art.

It's obvious that you have no idea about art, nor do you understand the process of developing games. The fact that you think Ikaruga is so shitty alone shows this.

>>186221683
>Creating the backgrounds, sprites, etc is most time consuming and difficult work about making shmups
battle traverse has amazing backgrounds and enemy sprites though only the player sprites suck.

>>186221683
Oh so what you actually meant is that you know more about the various artforms involved in creating a game than all of us, despite demonstrating time and time again that you know very little about music and are a follow the template level programmer? You haven't shown anything to warrant these levels of arrogance, you just keep claiming that your tastes are superior without anything backing it up.

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>>186221980
Battle Traverse is crap, dipshit. It's nothing but shitty anime imagery. Flying along a poorly drawn beach is just fucking retarded. The whole concept of the visuals is ridiculous.

>>186222535
you haven't seen anything beyond stage 1 have you?

>>186222351
>you just keep claiming that your tastes are superior without anything backing it up
How do you wanna back something like this up? I know that I can't back it up. In the end it's still all in the eye of the beholder, no matter how retarded that person is. I just can tell you, that I'm a person who has an unusually mature sense for art, and sense for art is what really counts when judging such things. That's all I can do.

>>186221980
I thought Battle Traverse has bad player sprites too, but I actually think they look quite nice after looking again. Pretty high quality stuff.

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>>186223125
>I just can tell you, that I'm a person who has an unusually mature sense for art, and sense for art is what really counts when judging such things. That's all I can do.

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>>186222815
Even if I didn't, a single pic like this already tells me that the game is shit.
To judge good art, you do not necessarily have to see every single work of the artist, it's often already enough to just see a single work to get to know the style.

>>186223441
this is still far above 99.99999% of poojins

>>186223361
behave they look disabled.

>>186223441
kek you're a ridiculous human being.

>>186223125
By making a game which shows how mature your sense of art is (and how that applies to games as a whole), or just stick to the points being discussed without acting like a smug shit.

>>186207469
Refrain is good. I remember it was the best year of komiket when Crimzon Clover doujin version were released along with Stellavanity and Refrain.

>>186218392
what a shock! when did banana became a daddy?

>>186223621
>behave they look disabled.
wot?

They look all right for anime characters I think.

>>186225308
no really look at the tiny weird legs, they look like wheelchair kids with fat heads. The enemy sprites are sick though.

>>186223125
>I just can tell you, that I'm a person who has an unusually mature sense for art
I wouldn't call CP very mature

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>>186225624
Photography by Garo Aida or even masters like Iraki are 100 times more art than pic related.

This literally scream "ANIMUUUUUU DO YOU LIKE GIRLS WITH BIG BOOBS AND DRAGONBALLLZ ANIMUUU"

>>186226093
>more art
kek doesn't even make sense.
>Photography and artists
Don't have the same vital requirement that games do of presenting a consistent theme and building a world around it, it's more akin to film or storyboards actually. You just don't like the style thats fine but when you start claiming something is "more" art than something else you're a pretentious arrogant worthless idiot shit cunt, you're like andy warhol without the wealth.

2 things Germans have never mastered 1. freedom of speech and 2. understanding subjectivity because of blind arrogance.

>>186226093
And yeah i figured now why you hate it so much, Lily has tits! fully grown triggers the kraut.

>almost 2018
>still no pawarumi

>>186226589
>kek doesn't even make sense.
You dont make any sense. One thing can be more artful than an other.

>You just don't like the style
Keep telling yourself that, brainlet. But in reality art is not subjective. There are rules for it. You are the equivalent of untalented retard trying to justify his "art" with "b-but that's just my style", when in reality just everything about your work is wrong.

>>186227314
>You are the equivalent of untalented retard trying to justify his "art" with "b-but that's just my style", when in reality just everything about your work is wrong.

says the untalented retard who copies cp and pretends its art.

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>>186226773
Strania girl also has tits, and is a much better work of art.
Here the artist actually has a sense for composition and anatomy.

>>186227637
equally as animu though. artfags are cancer.

>>186227809
No, Strania would be a seinen anime for a more mature audience, while Battle Traverse would be a shonen anime for dumb Naruto fans.

>>186228128
still anime though, artfag douche

>>186228706
>I DONT JUST DRAW NAKED LITTLE GIRLS
>accompanies with pic of naked little girls.

This is what peak mental illness looks like.

>>186225502
It's just the chibi style I guess, yeah.

I would prefer ships over anime characters anyway. The one with the long-ass LMG looks a bit shit, but the others seem fine at least.
Also yeah those enemy designs are brilliant, nice fighter jets!!!

>>186189450
what game

>>186229246
>I would prefer ships over anime characters anyway.
agreed, its only a minor thing though the game is still really damn good.

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>>186229491
>the game is still really damn good

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>>186230271
>>the game is still really damn good

>>186229491
It really does look great desu.

I'd play it, alone for those enemy sprites, fuck me. But I dunno if I should play ketsui before it, since it's supposed to be really close to it.

>>186230690
>But I dunno if I should play ketsui before it, since it's supposed to be really close to it.
hmm in theme and some elements but in feel not at all imo, try both and see which draws you most, BT is all about hard (2 loops) and very hard (1 loop) though as normal is very easy.

>>186229260

Pic is Witch-Bot Meglilo. Players are actually forced to 1cc that game.

Now what I wanted to talk about was RefleX.

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>>186229491
>the game is still really damn good.
it's pure shite compared to CCWI

>>186233114

No one was talking about your little golden calf.

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this fucking game just don't let me get a shitty pb
no matter how many hours i practice stage 5, always fucked up everything in real run

not on my watch

>>186231918
I will try both then! Can't go wrong with either anyway, I imagine.

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Bahmpu~

ded

>>186249357
NOT ded!

>>186117494
>in batrider you just get thrown into a really eventful first few stages with just a few more boring bumps in the run in the form of some bosses.
i believe those boring bosses are there only if you play mahou characters and score heavily, with garegga or batrider ships the game is a non-stop fucking blast.

>>186177161
>And yeah, why is Touhou 16 still listed as "upcoming" even though it's been out for 4 days now?
nobody cares about the call of duty of shmups

>>186186584
most japanese hardly know or care about touhou, it has no impact on non-otaku culture. gradius, xevious and space invaders are the shmups that have real recognition in japan.

>>186257492
>gradius, xevious and space invaders are the shmups that have real recognition in japan.
in other words those games are normie core

>>186197442
good, but suffers from by low production values, just like touhou.
>>186257890
in other words nobody gives a shit about touhou

>>186259259
I will beat the shit out of you if I see you disrespect Touhou or ZUN again. Consider yourself warned.

>>186221980
>battle traverse has amazing backgrounds
lol no, it's eroge tier, that building in background of st2 for example(the one with boss heli) looks like some fucking school, the cutesy feel is definitely not only in player sprites. it's very detailed though.
>>186260998
twisted fucking psychopath

Which 2hu should I start with, friends?

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>>186263357
Honestly if I had to give a recommendation it would be Imperishable Night.

>>186263357
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05p646nlYS0

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>tfw no western WRs

>>186267212
i got the world record in CCWI but i'm way too cool to bother recording it

>>186267707
wow me2

>>186267212
play some obscure ship in some obscure ez mode

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>>186267212
tfw all the WRs

>>186267212
get eastern WRs, noone has claimed it

i hold all central asian WRs

there should be a category for stupid people who can't route, we want WRs too

>>186261278
>looks like some fucking school
And schools are somehow excluded from battlegrounds or? "GENERAL THE ENEMY IS COMING FROM THE SOUTH BUT THERE'S A SCHOOL SO WE MUST FLY AROUND!". Donut.

>>186270801
Get the kusoclear WR, for highest recorded number of shit clears.

>>186270896
lol the game is set on unmapped island

>>186270925
gaymers must have that with all the poojins he plays

>>186271135
is it? islands have schools and indigenous populations to or is everything in the game drones?

>>186271475
>is it?
yes, it says so in the intro that you can't skip.
>or is everything in the game drones?
i'm pretty sure most enemies are drones, ithey are just too tiny and cute.
>indigenous populations
you know what japs do with indigenous populations

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>>186271629
also, it's not about schools anyway, the background style is like in your average eroge. it might as well be a mini-game in some eroge, just with more animation frames.

>>186271629
>i'm pretty sure most enemies are drones, ithey are just too tiny and cute.
only the zako, everything else is massive helis n tanks n shit.

>>186271629
>yes, it says so in the intro that you can't skip.
shows how much attention i pay, isn't it just saying they don't know the location though or?

>>186271947
>isn't it just saying they don't know the location though or?
it's called unmapped island, i'm pretty sure there is a map after each stage showing where you are and there are no schools on it lol.

>>186271946
whatev's it's still a great game, no slowdown and not to much silly rng whilst still be very challenging goes a long way with me. I learnt a bit of progear and battle traverse and know which one i'll return to, BT definitely made hori danmaku work better than cave could.

>>186272029
>and there are no schools on it lol.
I didn't say there was some other donut said it looks like one or something.

>>186272117
it's obviously not school(school with helipad wtf), it's just that everything the artist draws looks like your typical eroge scenery. i do agree that it's a very well made game.

>>186272282
The stage boss coming forwards hooning through the tunnel was really cool.

>>186272376
the jet one? yeah that's a really stunning fight.
now that i think about it, such generic style is probably becouse they wanted weeb auidence, after all even one guy here liked the chibis.
i don't think they look that bad too, aside from machinegun guy, it's the hitbox to sprite ratio that annoys me more.

>>186267212
Get some local WRs. State, province, county, etc. are all just as good as a western WR.

>>186272594
>it's the hitbox to sprite ratio that annoys me more.
yeah ccwi, bt, ketsui and mushi all offenders of this, I play BT with hitbox perma visible which helped a LOT.

>>186272763
i was the guy who told you how to turn hitbox on
>yeah ccwi, bt, ketsui and mushi all offenders of this,
it's not that bad in them, becouse at least the sprite is vertical, here we have a tall sprite in hori, imagine a wide sprite in vert, fucking odd right? in progear i don't have trouble dodging even without visible hitbox becouse plane sprite is horizontal.

>>186273419
>in progear i don't have trouble dodging even without visible hitbox becouse plane sprite is horizontal.

Christ it is, stage 5 is dire because of it.

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>tfw got the neighborhood WR in every game i've ever played

>>186274684
>not getting your basement WR

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>>186274896
>not getting the work loo wr on your mobile

TARGET FOR THE WEAKPOINTS OF FUCKIN' MACHINE!!!

>>186277518
>what kraut says to himself before abducting child for "art"

i liek shmap xDDD@

>>186282648
prove it
post you're western WRs

>>186282959
sure
https://youtu.be/8fDMx_xywug
if we don't count steam, this is possibly world record

What started the whole "Black Label" thing and why is it called that?

>>186286707
cave looking for ways to make more out of a games assets and creating remixs is a great way to do it. The black label name i'm not 100% sure but think it might be something literal to do with pcb or packaging markings but again not sure. Daioujou was the first black label and featured a black screen for the title maybe that was where it came from.

>>186263357
inb4 "Touhou is a garbage-tier pedophile shmup"

On a more serious note, yeah, probably either Imperishable Night, Mountain of Faith or the very newest game(Hidden Star in Four Seasons; though it can also backfire by giving you some bad habits with the release system).

You could also start with EoSD, but that game is bad pattern design incarnate(random spam everywhere, ugh).

>Get to second loop
>It just doubles enemy HP and adds suicide bullets

that moment when you realize your game is kusoge

>>186290312
>getting to second loop
>not infinitely restarting stage 1

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>>186267212
>tfw don't even have the western record for Casper
I'm like 21m away from the highest western score I've heard of. It's my next target (along with breaking 300m in general, the score itself is 298m so I'm assuming they'll come hand in hand) when I do seriously return to the game.

>>186288687
>You could also start with EoSD, but that game is bad pattern design incarnate(random spam everywhere, ugh)
Personally I like that about EoSD. As opposed to some of the others where you might have to memorize patterns and how to deal with them to get through efficiently, EoSD feels like the easiest one to pick up and play on a whim because if you can dodge on reflex you can do it. It may not be the easiest game to start with, but I do like the idea that it helps a beginner learn to dodge bullet spam like that too. On the other hand I really dislike PoFV, which also likes to shoot tons of bullets at you randomly.

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>decide to literally copy a replay
>mfw it's somewhat working
i've discoverd a secret to western WRs

Is it better to play with a gate on stick? I just cant get used to this.

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>LS-32 doesn't have an octagonal gate
>Sanwa one doesn't fit
I need one!

>>186292650
Gates are great.

>>186292446
on a second thought, its really boring

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Bahmpu~

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>shmup thread on /v/ has survived for over 3 hours while /shmupg/ is deserted

Bump

>>186304974
>going to /v/
ur beyond hope

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>>186305406
Do I need hope?

>>186305406
/v/ shmup threads aren't that bad

>>186307797
i can't imagine refershing that shithole all day waiting for one

What are my options for Hellsinker-style shmups?

>>186307554
>hope only brings dissapointment
it's true, when i play and hope for some improvement i'm very dissapointment at the end of the day. but if i play just for fun without care i usually improve.

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Bahmpu~

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Squid bump!

Think I'll do an Xbox night tonight. Any favorite ports of yours on the 360?

My controller doesn't work anymore, and now I have to play with stick again.
Playing with stick is way harder. Every tiny movement needs much more force.

>>186322381
you some type of super effeminate tranny with zero wrist strength or something?

>>186322576
Doesn't have to do anything with strength retard.
It's just more difficult to move with the stick.

>>186322381
>Playing with stick is way harder.
yeah because you're used to pad, everything you aren't competent with is harder cocksnot.

>>186323345
I am already used to stick, fucktard. I already played with stick for hundrets of hours.
It's just more difficult to move precisely with it.

>>186323447
>I already played with stick for hundrets of hours.
>It's just more difficult to move precisely with it.
Guess that makes you the retard then doesn't it? did u get banned for posting cp?

>>186323550
>Guess that makes you the retard then doesn't it?
Why should this make me a retard? Not my fault that pad is superior. You are obviously the aggressive faggot here.

>>186324535
>Not my fault that pad is superior.
all the best players use sticks
really makes you think doesnt it?

>>186326214
All the best players also play in arcades. Of course they use sticks.

>>186326423
and they spend hundreds on sticks to play on console versions instead of using game pads
gives the ol noggin a joggin

>>186326520
Why should they play with something else, when they concentrate on arcades anyway?
Get a fucking brain.

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jaimers uses pad

>>186326690
i don't know, why would they want to practice at home, whenever they want, with practices modes, without having to spend 100 yen per credit to start from stage 1 every time at an arcade
it's a great mystery. really fires up the neurons.

>>186327143
>it's a great mystery. really fires up the neurons.
for brainlets like you perhaps

>>186326991
1cc collectors can use guitar hero controller if they want

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why this game so easy

>>186329579
Because it's not? Battle Garegga is the most insanely complex, deepest, and most hardcore game known to man, you fucking idiot.

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>>186330005
batrider is better
reeeeeeeeeeeeeee

>>186329579
I think it has to with the fact that you need bombs for scoring.
This lets you hoard a shitton of bombs if you not score much.
Also, the bullets are pretty slow if the rank is not high

when will cee finally land his dream job with the ringling bros?