/stsg/ - Starsector General

I want to marry Onslaught-sama!

What are some good 8-10 point ships to assign to my carriers?

>>182281308
>Your Flagship now has an AI based on the ship itself and interacts with you via humanoid hologram

What is she/he like and what does she say about you?

>>182282490
She'd be pretty mad that I'm using a cargo ship for combat.

>>182282490
Wondering why I don't just let her control all the guns since she can probably aim better than I can.

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>>182282490
>What is she/he like
Hyper with a short attention span, but always wants to see new things
>what does she say about you
Don't know. Can't hear her over the shrieking of her childbearing hips

>tfw these threads keep dying

>>182285975
Well there was a good reason for the last thread to die. Someone spammed furry porn on /vg/ and killed every thread. Also happened on /v/.

>>182286063
oh really? I missed it. I saw someone say the same thing in for honor general too though.

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>>182286132
someone on another general took a cap of it, hope I don't get banned for showing you it

>>182286241
wow, what a mess.

Just found this game entirely by chance, heard about some attack and checked the catalog to see what it was. This looks very much like my type of autism.

>>182286241
MODS PLZ BAN

>>182286063
that other thread i visit didn't die

>>182286435
it's a great game, well worth the 15 bucks. just bear in mind that it isn't finished and won't be for a while.

>>182286063
FGO was saved by the combined shitspamming of gilfag and lancefag.

Why do all of my planets have -5 smuggling.

>>182290013
Its Alex way of saying stop pirating my game

>>182286241
>>182287315
Well shit... Someone hates video games that much, or just likes Furry nuts that much.

Or has a very, very unhealthy fetish for Pokemon that involves a painted dog or two.

On to the topic of SS though.
yeah, it has some good mods in it:
Black Crack Drives being a user-favourite

ShadowYards for the trippy Colors and cool style

Intersteller Imperium (Fucking Space Romans with a fuck-ass-cruiser-sized-missile that can ruin a fleet or three)

And then some shitty-teir Mods like

NGO
New Galatic Order Which takes basically Space-Nazis and has sprites from another game (WITH PERMISSION OF THE OTHER GAME'S DEVELOPMENT TEAM).

A mod called something Research Institute something which is just sort'a weird mash'aships...

>>182290013
>>182290119

That's fuckin' Funny. Like the Scorpion in Duke Nukem or how the game Degrades to shit in ARMA III i think. xD

>>182282114
If you're talking about fighters, then Gladiuses or Talons. Broadswords if you have bombers. If you can scrounge up some extra OP, Khopeshes aren't bad either.

>>182292006
I'm talking about sortie points. For example a dominator is 25.

This number is often but not always the same as monthly maintenance.

>>182286063
>Blaming furries when /stsg/ had no weekend thread
t. as someone who missed the furry spam

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What do you guys think of the Apogee?

civilian systems on a ship = terrrible
flares are the worst too

>>182292492
Most destroyers that can fit long range weaponry work well for that. I like Enforcers or Diable's Derecho.

>>182295645
solid cruiser, especially if you're doing stuff like prospecting. I liked it better when it had the sensor drones instead of flares though

>>182295645
Maybe SO plasma? 700 base flux diss is pretty good.

Is tartiflette aware that bounties doesn't even appear with a typical diable start in nexerelin + dynasector?

>>182290436
For bonus points, the mod about space Nazis, is made by a literal Neo Nazi. If it I did not know for a fact it is true, I would not believe it. It just is too much.

>>182298815
>is made by a literal Neo Nazi
do you have a single snack to back that up?

>>182298815
What website do you think you are on fking libtard shithead

>>182299193
Yes

>>182299193
I wouldn't be surprised if he actually believes that. These days you are a literal neo nazi for just wanting to gas tri-jews and remove sindrian kebab..

>>182299341
Hey, fuck the far left.
And the far right.

>>182299473
Nah, totally legit. Holocaust denier quotes, listens to Hitler youth music etc etc.

>>182298815
>>182299193
>>182299341
>>182299358
>>182299473
Here's some damn proof: http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=10668.msg181888#msg181888

For you lazy fucks that don't want to click:
Ahne is german and a synonym of Ahn, the plural is Ahnen (in english Ancestors or Forefathers/old norse forfaðir, someone who originated an idea or tradition at least a generation before you).

I am linked to my Ahnen within my mind, i will try to carry on their ideologies and values. I respect them more than anything and i hate the new generations of my country. So, thats how i got to my name. In memory of the glorious but nowadays wrongly condemned times. History is written by victors.

>>182299606
1488
If caring of your people and your family makes you a Nazi
Then I'll be a Nazi

>>182298815
>If it I did not know for a fact it is true

I hope you're just some brazilian baitposter and not actually for real. NGO is a great mod and if you're such a meek fool that you can't even emphasize with the ideals of fascism even a little in a fucking video game there's not much to say since you're beyond help.

>>182299606
>>182298815
so what's the problem then? do you have something personally against him? whenever I see him post he's always respectful.

>>182295645
Convergence Issues: The Cruiser. Front smalls and rear mediums need babysitting to get them to fire, and you can't sidestep the issue like you can with the Aurora by simply mounting missiles on them. Let your AI officers fly this one.

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>more polshit
Post you sexiest fleet, bitches.

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>>182299606
>Getting so absolutely fucking triggered that anything even remotely german is immediately Nazi
SHUT IT DOWN

>lvl 29 officers

>>182301282
>tfw skill bar isn't big enough to fit all skills

>>182301282
>playing by Alex's bullshit settings

>>182299829
NGO is a mediocre mod at best.

>>182301139
>just picked up irrelevant d-mods paragon #4
This run is ridiculous.

>>182301139
What are the Omens for?

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>Trifires suddenly start shooting at a near 45 degree angle
what
>Error: Our system thinks your post is spam. Please reformat and try again.
I'm sorry, what

>>182302850
High Res Sensors and general disruption. They tend to die quickly, though.

>>182302850
Frying fighters and any enemy Ass that it can get to so it's a fancy spine-rock in space.

>>182301146
>>182299606
>NGO's maker is a fucking nazi
>NGO IS FUCKING CRAP!
>NGO IS THE FUCKING CRAP!
>Now wonders if NGO has a Manifesto in its code...

Personally, I think the Mod is yeah, a bit Mediocore. Awesome that the guy got some cross-game shit going, But... It's just beam death crusiers basically. Not much more to it, an the thing is a bit buggy sometimes.

Now if he's actually a Nazi? Other than that, the only way'd we know is if someone with a Fedora going in and hacking the shit an looking through his computer somehow.

Metelson should warn you that the faction is unfinished

Doesn't have really any decent ships, the only thing going for it is that it has pulse lasers with way better flux efficiency.

>>182299606
I don't see anything nazi about what he wrote at all.

I suppose this makes me a nazi.

So why the fuck not. Now stop with the nazi hateor we will get angry. And I bet you still remember the last time that happened.

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Thoughts on this Enforcer fit? Designed as a carrier support.

>>182301139
is the Requiem from a mod? Which one?

It is good-looking.

>>182305868
http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=10046.0

>>182303407
>>Now wonders if NGO has a Manifesto in its code...
We're hitting autism levels that shouldn't even be possible

>>182304412
It kind of says so on the title.
Then again the Furfag hasn't even changed the title or his "CEO Letter", whatever the fuck that is.

>>182305597
The Enforcer doesn't have anywhere near the flux capacity for all those guns. Double HVD, one Mauler and two Flak Cannons in the side mounts would do a lot better for you as an escort.

>>182306251
What would you grab with the remaining ten or so points? Flux distributor? Hardened Subsystems? Armored weapon mounts? advanced turret gyros?

>>182306857
Integrated Targeting Unit if you have it. Distributor is fine otherwise.

outposts when

>>182312215
if someone modded them in they'd probably just get called a nazi

>>182312545
>some guy posts about how Hitler did nothing wrong, gets called out
>half a dozen anons take it personally
Yeah, uh-huh. Whatever you guys say.

>>182313762
I voted for Hitler

>>182312545
Nyeah... Stop bitching. Someone thinks he's a Nazi, someone think's Anon is triggered and a whole shit load of other crap.

>>182312215
When it comes.

Though I have to wonder, can we fight with our stations if they're under attack? Similar to how Drones defend their Motherships?

That's gonn'a be awesome... heheheh.

>>182313762
who took it personally? just sick of people whining, especially when its "you can't have a nazi mod, it's [current year]!"

>>182299785
>being this dense and stupid
I pity you anon... But do the world a favor and don't breed

>>182313762
Every time NGO is brought up, you always chime in about him being a Nazi. Every. Time.

>>182313762
it's the calling out that bothers me

if you look at what that anon posted it was some stuff about german paganism

i mean, even if that guy was full hitler-did-nothing-wrong, i don't see why you should hate on him. it's a popular historial view with substantial historical basis.

whether or not the 1488 crowd is factually correct and all that, who the fuck cares. they like something you don't like and you have a meltdown.

it's mental. cut it out. this is not /pol/, it's a video game thread about a space war simulator.

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>>182314787
>>182314776
>>182314718
>>182314281
>>182313762
>>182312545

Can we get back to the topic of Star ships going Pew-pew and how Metelson does or does not suck?

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>Defeated the battlestation
Is it time to wipe the save and start over with some other faction?

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The votes are in, and it's a tie

>>182315650

What ya' got going in the mods? If no mods, GET MODS!

Also, which station a REDACTED?... I've not met a REDACTED yet.

>>182315861
Cool... So Mid-tech wins.

>>182315861
>six people post on /stsg/

>>182315861
Where's the option for best tech AKA mid tech?

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>>182316079
>mid tech

>>182316278
Think hammerhead

>>182315650
Get Ship/Weapons Pack and defeat final bounty, gud luck

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>>182316373
Anon was right about the armor, but I still don't know what's best to put instead of the tac lasers

might leave it empty or put in some more PD.

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Is there any advantage to mounting a smaller weapon in a larger mount?
Small weapon in a medium mount, medium weapon in a large mount, etc.

>>182316812
flux and money considerations

>>182316410
>>182315650
And install Underworld and beat the Dick(erson)s

>>182317168
Bonus points if you become Alpha Dickerson

>>182316720
You need to show us the actual fit screen instead of these manlet sized mouseovers so we can actually see what fucking slots you're talking about, senpai.

>>182318090
1024x768 is the way the game was supposed to be played

>>182316812
you need to reevaluate the entire fit if you find yourself downsizing your guns

dead game

>>182295645
Bad weapon locations, really ugly when you use the large mounts.

4/10 it's shit

>>182324305
It WAS better before with the drones as they helped offset the lost range on the already short ranged guns

this thread dies every nite

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>>182295645
Has awkward mounts and a sup-par ship system for it's weight class, there are cheaper more effective means of conducting a planet survey. It's sensor boost would be worth something if fuel tankers were not giant space beacons. Overall expensive civilian grade trash.

>>182327721
Will it live again when TianDong updates?

>>182328919
A link to download the game in OP would help
And an official stsg pastebin

>>182285281
My Eagle-chan sucks at aiming.

>>182304412
Seems like the majority of that mod's preset variants have fucked up OP usage.

>play nex
>hegemony down to a single system
>church wiped out
>leauge got 1/2 of tri-tachyon bases
>blackrock holds jangala

What a mess

Also, someone said that the first market you conquer defines what types of ships your faction gets (I started as independent), is that true?

>>182331813
I don't think so. data/world/factions/player_npc.faction in the Nex folder is what I think defines it.
I could be wrong, though.

>>182331813
hegemony deserves to get blacked

Are longbow bombers any good?

>>182332907
Yes. Combine them with kopesh for sabot & annihilator spam.

>>182332907
"are sabots any good?"

>>182303407
>Awesome that the guy got some cross-game shit going
Does Diable Avionics count? It's from the Front Mission series

>>182333847
I think he meant that NGO's sprites are directly ripped from some other game with the dev's permission.

>>182333847
Diable has grown further than that and make its own unique design. That's what I believe anyway.

What faction should I choose if I want macross missile massacre, and if I joined the Hegemony being new to the game and having no idea that their ships are outdated pieces of scrap how would I leave and reset rep with all other factions?

>like tri-tach
>hate hedgemony
>they form an alliance
how do I ruin their honeymoon?

>>182339586
If playing vanilla, you have to worsen you position with hedgemony.
That being said, an army of lashers with missiles can swarm the enemy just fine. Outdated pieces of crap cost less deployment points while having less shield and more armor. Firepower is comparable.

>>182340008
If using nexerelin:
> join one of them
> fuck them in the ass from the inside
> leave

Is there a low graphics mod?

>>182341527
It's already pixels, anon

>>182341873
>battle size 400: 13.5 fps

>>182341281
When taking commissions, how do you cancel them? Betrayal?

>>182342337
Yes

>>182342337
Invade one of their planets

>>182341126
I just found this shuttle called the Mercury that has 3 small universal mounts, only 6K a piece. I wonder if hundreds of those with missile or torpedo only loadouts could be dangerous.

>>182343092
how many points is it to bring it into combat

>>182343092
>>182343216
Hmm, wiki says it's only 2 deployment points, and has better Flux/damage ratio. But you are gonna have a lot of useless ships once they use all missiles.

It would be an interesting experiment nonetheless. 2x sabot and 1x harpoon?

>>182343604
3 reapers and expanded missile racks

>>182343604
I guess you can bring 100 of them and cycle them out.

>>182343092
always buy mercury early game if you can find it. Stick 3 salamanders on it, it will pussy around and not die. If it dies who cares. 3 salamanders will give you a decent advantage in early game fights vs lots of trashy frigs.

>>182341527
If you have mods, you probably have graphicslib. If you do, go into its settings and disable the first setting in the text doc. Alternatives could be installing Starsector FX to improve your battle fps.
Or you could download more ram

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pray to Ludd for useful d-mods

>>182346741
>installing Starsector FX to improve your battle fps.
The FPS is only improved if you don't count all the potential frames lost due to that shit crashing so hard it corrupts the game installation folder.

Since guys who tweak are around, how to I change my max zoom out level?

I enabled dev mode once and was able to zoom out very far which was awesome. I want to do that.

Why is the lighting in this game so meh? Especially the graphicslib where everything has this sort of hybrid decorated christmas tree and neon look to it. Clashes pretty hard with the intended dystopian theme of the game.

>>182346741
oh cool, graphicslib has a craptop preset.

I went in also and disabled tons of stuff but it didn't affect my fps.

I guess I'll look into SFX

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>>182346779
>He's so much of a poorfag he needs d-mods
>He can't sustain 500+ supply costs per fight

>>182352063
>he thinks >>182346779 was serious
Obviously he was being ironic. Nobody is that poor.

>Find a ship I love the design of
>Has a useful system
>Slot types are nice
>Firing arcs ruin it
>Only option is to give it missiles
>Hate missiles on any ship that doesn't have an autoforge
Why tho?

>>182354341
Nice job not saying which ship it is faggot

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>>182354341
>>Hate missiles on any ship that doesn't have an autoforge
Or missiles that don't reload, right?
>So much of an autist I keep slapping micromissiles over irrational fear of just running out of poons/sabots when I need them the most/AI dumping them uselessly on a fleet-wide salvo vs a frigate
>Even if such salvo would kill the entire enemy fleet thanks to retargetting and what weapons the ships have left would do the job just as well since the micromissiles might as well be PD distractions rather than actual missiles

>>182354970
ur a faget

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>>182354970
Love that shit.
>Stick a harpoon pod on something since I have nothing better and spare OP
>Watch it launch multiple volleys off at some frigate without a shield
>Said frigate just backs away behind multiple other ships
>All missiles get shot down

>>182356221
What's better than harpoons? They're my go to missiles for bigger ships.

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>>182356221
>Missiles
>At the stage of the game when ships with PD + fighters reaches critical mass

>>182356736
Any mod missiles that put more missiles in the air, even if its for lower damage.
More likely to beat PD & fighters that way.
Torpedos.
Rocket pods.
Basically anything that can get by PD through weight of fire, or can be used as a shock weapon.

>>182356786
>Already said I don't like using missiles outside of a couple of ships
>In the case posted it was just to burn spare OP when it already had worthwhile mods
:thinkgen:

Is there a faction tier list?

>>182357669
>Second reply
I was agreeing with you as to why I also don't like missiles, anon.

>>182358758
>Elder God tier
Hegemony
>Trash
Everyone else

>>182358980
I read it more like your where implying "I" was stupid for trying to do that, rather than it being stupid in general.

>>182358758
>Unironic Top Tier
independents
>Gas Tier
Tri-Jews
>Remove Tier
Sindrian

>>182363975
epic meme list kill yourself

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>>182363975
This man gets it.

>Also Top Tier
Own Nexerelin faction

>be new nex run
>start as indep
>one frigate, 20k
>jump out of warp gate next to pirate armada
fuck

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>>182358758
>Bring the glory of fascism to the entire sector tier
NGO
>WE WUZ ROME N SHIEET tier
Interstellar Imperium
>*Katana noises* tier
Diable
>*Tips fedora* tier
BRDY
DME
>Sausage tier
ORA
>Aesthetic trainwreck tier
SCY
Shadowyards
>Just fuck up my sector completely senpai tier
Templar

>>182358758
>TOP TIER
Luddic Path, Hegemony
>GREAT TIER
Luddic Church, Sindrian Dikatat
>OK TIER
Independents, Pirates
>SHIT TIER
Persean League, Tri-Tachyon

Anything else is wrong

STOP BULLYING TRI-TACHYON

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>>182369721
>Tech Pervs
when will they learn

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>>182369721
No.

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>>182369721
>when a tri-jew is in the locker room and the other guys see his armor rating

>>182369861
>>182369921
>>182370107
> what is paragon

>>182371267
A glory hole, not a flagship.

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>>182371267
Salvage.

>>182371729
>>182371756
Still capable of soloing response fleets.

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>>182371887
X - [Doubt]

The path is a joke. They have micro fleets that the starter fleet in any configuration can take down, and I've never seen them in anything bigger that a punisher.

>>182372663
The annoying thing is that they are fast af and will just run away
so you don't get any loot

Also sometimes you get ships picked off by their torpedos

I agree, the Path needs much better loadouts for their ships

>>182372663
Fight the Path IBB its pretty gud

>>182373159
What's an IBB?

>>182376001
>this new

>>182376962
What?

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Is this Nomad fighter worth 180k? discuss

new blogpost when

>>182379175
post stats

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>>182379306
>>182379175

>>182379367
sounds rough

So in my new campaign IBB missions were showing up for a while, I did two or three, but now I'm not seeing them come up any more.

Is this a bug or do I have to search more markets for missions or something?

>>182379367
wtf is that brain thing in your inventory?

>>182380105
Nomad special ability to find the Oasis, you get it by talking to any nomad fleet. Still havent found the Oasis even when it pointed me to the star system...

Is tyrador good? never used it

>>182376001
International Bounty Board from Ship/Weapon Pack.

>>182379367
low stats dnno
Whats naeran flux shunts do

>>182333847
I didn't even KNOW about Diable, so... Sweet, now I know.

That and it has TRANSFORMING SHIPS.
Of course it fucking wins! good sprites, awesome weapons, and they're in the color of Dickerson's favourite food!

>>182385480
>e in the color of Dickerson's favourite food!
what, red?

>>182385804

Yup.
Just like the blood of their enemies (you).

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>>182366005
>>182368354

Come on now... There's more teirs than that... where the rest Anon!?

>>182388809
ok for the mod factions

>TOP TIER
Tiandong update when
>GREAT TIER
Imperium, Diable, Blackrock
>NOT WORTH INSTALLING TIER
the rest

>>182358758
>god tier
using whatever factions you want
>shit tier
letting other people decide what mods you use

>>182389138
Ding ding chicken wing!
We got'a winner with chicken dinner!

>>182389090
Nah... Nah... That just a dumb reply.

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>>182370107
>dat compact figure loaded with armor
This reminds me, someone ought to build a spreadsheet on the per-cell armor value and n-th impact armor value of ships for autism purposes. It may be anecdotal, but I feel like Dominators lose their armor at about the same speed as Onslaught does on its front tip even with +armor hullmods piled on.

Pic unrelated. It's the fucking flight path of those expensive, useless Thunders as they zoom by and get picked off by HVDs at the apex

>>182346741
If you turn off the shaders in the config files, it will help more than the craptop settings

>>182347059
Settings file has MANY little things that you can tweak, including max zoom. HOWEVER, increasing the max zoom increases the load greatly

>>182390872
>HOWEVER, increasing the max zoom increases the load greatly
it does?

I only have a frig and a civ transport right now, should I start a frig/destroyer fleet or get a bigger ship? Which bigger ship if the latter? Got 58K currently.

>>182392530
Frig/Destroyer fleet is a good start up. Look out for easy bounties, you'll net 200k pretty easy that way. Hammerheads are pretty solid beginner destroyers, I'd grab those. What frig do you have currently?

>>182393107
The Wolf-class, same one I started with.

>>182391195
Yes. I think one of the mafia guys looked at it and it goes up quadratically or so shit like that

>>182393413
he's talking about playing with mod starts

>>182394796
Do those give you some starting gear to skip the initial grind? I should go download one before I get tired of this.

>>182395345

Nexerelin lets you basically choose the size of your starting fleet, number of officers, and starting level.

>>182394796
I was not. I was talking about good beginner fleets not starter fleets.

Isn't the next update supposed to include nexerelin like abilities, like taking over out posts and planets?

Wheres the ant flavored faction

>>182380602
Yes it is good.

>>182299606
I don't give a shit if he's a nazi or not, NGO had some nice ships and weapons.

>>182379367
>FOUR (4) crew
>>>>>>120 speed
>pathetic shield
>only 2 in a wing
Nope
The hull doesn't make up for it at all and the nomad weapons on it are shit.

>>182405839
Yawn...

Murder wedges
Erratic balance
Boring ship systems
Boring weapons
No scripted anything pretty much
Sprites that don't fit the game at all

It is the very definition, of a mediocre mod.


>>182406023
Nomads is a shit mod in general.

>>182406202
>every mod needs to be a special snowflake approlight mod

>>182406528
Absolutely not, clearly. Look at how much folks like the Dong.

>>182406202
An there are some mods we never mention here... No love for Junk Pirates? No love for Neutrino?

If a fighter wing only deploys 1 fighter
Would reserve deployment deploy 2?

>>182410887
Reserve deployment will add 1 fighter to each wing.

>>182410104
Neutrino's mentioned often here, I'll give you Junk Pirates tho. DESU, I have Junk Pirates installed and don't remember what it really even adds. So it probably meshes well enough with vanilla.

>>182411482
>Testing
DESU
T.B.H.

I feel like Neutrino is built around their Maul heavy cruiser platform (3x L energy with siege mod).

It's a really good ship, I always bring two. By far the best thing you get from neutrino, besides maybe their dual giga laser firing fighter wings tbqh senpai

The Ion Torpedo's from the Ships and weapons pack are pretty brutal. Got surprised by a wolf, hit me while I was on the front line and got annihilated by to hammerheads. One will take out your entire ship. Full flameout and everything.

>>182412648
It was my brand new Vulture to.

Need more PD senpai

>>182413239
>Mod with a FUCKHUEG PD gun with equally fuckhuge range built into a dedicated PD ship so that you can actually slap useful guns onto your other ships never

>>182413572
>What is the albatros

Or that Destroyer with ATC

If I want to collect all kinds of ships and weapons what faction would be easier for that?

>>182414884
You want to be a jew, so Tri-Tachyon would be best.

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75KB, 196x215px

Why don't you bring more PD anon?

>>182415380
STOP HOGGING UP ALL MY FUCKING SLOTS

>>182414884
Persean League or the Saudi Diktat, probably. Pretty sure they have a combination of all three tech levels in their military markets.

>>182415380
I did, but it didnt stop the sabots or mirvs

>>182418253
just max out your capacitors brah
it is easy to tank sabots

hohohaaha

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3MB, 1920x1080px

>When the Luddic Church is Removed by Knights Templar.

How...fitting.

Any opinions on Tore Up Plenty?

>>182424007
A few well though out ships with nice sprites drowned in an avalanche of rather uninteresting content that bloat the mod.

>>182424571
Well said.

So yea, bad mod.

>the game's obsession with stuffing Reinforced Bulkheads on everything is so strong that it's fucking up ship presets to put in on
Every day something new.

>>182428451
Tic the option to not use spare OP for better stuff when switching loadouts.

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949KB, 1920x1080px

>>182429265
I turned that off a long time ago.
But it's actually not Bulkheads. The game just refuses to implement this preset properly for some reason, despite me having all the guns that I need to do so.

>>182412648
Have you used trident bombers on a fast carrier yet? That's never ending salvos of 4 atropos missiles per wing! Truly brutal.

>>182432117
tridents are too slow

>>182432275
They are not that slow and besides the missile does half the flying anyway. They are supremely effective in my experience since even a basic 2 flight deck carrier is dishing out 8 missiles per run. There isn't many ships that can defend against that while getting attacked at the same time.