/tf2g/ - Team Fortress 2 General

Ofifical TF2 crutch list:
Gunboats
Mad Milk
Spycicle
Dead Ringer
Darwin's Danger Shield
Rescue Ranger
Iron Bomber
Anything demoknight
Loch n Load
The entire pyro class
Machina
Black Box/Concheror
New Mantreads
Base Jumper
Diamondback
Frontier Justice

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scrumpeh

dead ringer deserved it

Official list of Crutch Maps in TF2:
2fort
Gold Rush/Hoodoo
Dustbowl
Badwater

Crutch map list is very much still a WIP, needs more thought.

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You can change one weapon to remove all nerfs/buffs and return it to it's original implementation. Which is it?
>Soda Popper

@182166113
bait do not respond

why do you still play this old busted game when there's way better class-based shooters out there like paladins and overwatch?

stockholm syndrome? autism?

>>182166269
loch

>>182166269
Sandman

>>182166269
powerjack
get 75 overheal with afterburn kills

>>182166269
Release powerjack was the best melee weapon in the game.

>+25% damage
>+75 HP on kill
>Afterburn/projectile kills count as long as you're holding it

>>182166269
shahanshah

>>182166149
Sure, I'll just topfrag as another class then. My pub experience won't change. C&D is more fun anyways.

>>182166774
>One of the few weapons that has never been touched
???

>>182166331
It's fun and fast enough for me to enjoy. No class like spy exist in other games.

Official TF2 Crutch List:
everything that kills me and that I don't use

>>182166969
yes

>>182167024
>spy player

so autism

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Last dmix went great and we played 3 games and it was really fun!

>Oh shit, is that a motherfucking dmix?
Yes, dmixes are making a return! Come frag and have some fun!

>When?
Saturday, 11 pm GMT +0 (convert to your local timezone)
>I have little to no competitive experience, can I still join?
Yes, everyone can come, try reading up on things and play some lobbies if you are new, avoid doing overly autistic shit like going pyro if you're playing demo.
>How do we communicate?
We'll be using mumble which you can download at www.mumble.com/mumble-download.php
>I'm from NA/EU/OCE, where is the server located?
Server location is decided depending on where the majority of players are from.
>What's a dmix?
A dmix, short for double mix, is when you gather 12 people to play 6s. It's friendly matches against each other, can be serious and/or unserious, although it's usually more fun when people aren't fucking about.
The usual go for dmixes are that once there are 6 players on both teams, one player says last to spec and everyone rushes to join spectator. Last 2 people to join spectator have to play medic, they battle it out and the winner gets to pick a player first.
The most common way to pick is to have players pick. Captain's pick exists too but it's pretty boring since it ends in one team being stacked more often than not. In players pick the person gets to pick a player when it's their turn, team takes turns picking. Classes are picked once everyone has been picked.
TL;DR it's a fucking 6s match
>I'm interested, how do we do this?
Add me on steam, id/hamaham, send me a message telling me that you're interested and I'll take care of the rest, when it begins I'll pm you the mumble, once we're 12 people in the mumble I'll post the server and the dmix will commence.
Remember to have fun!

>>182167134
Oh no, I've never actually played spy.

>>182167810
>2 fps counters
what for

>>182168213
One is mumble and the other is steam, the third (not seen) is shadowplay.

>>182167810
thats some very relaxed mouse movement

>>182168339
yeah but what for

>>182166269
Enforcer

ASS MAN *burp*

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Pyro had a hard life.

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>>182168360
16.7 inches per 360, also we were playing at like 2:30 am, it was so cool
>>182168375
I play some games in bordered, hence steam, I forgot why I enabled shadowplay fps but I think it was because I didn't use steam fps counter at the time, I had mumble before both those counters and I stopped using it since a lot of tf2 teams I've been playing with have been using discord (inferior to mumble btw)

tfw bad at video games

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all I want is a 5cp game, come on

>>182165865
>>182168260
also it can be argued whether black box is properly balanced or not, but that's a different topic for discussion, saying that the whole concept makes it a crutch makes me believe that you'd wish to see its bonus lowered if not the weapon removed from the game

if someone kills you with something don't call it a "crutch", but try to learn to play around it. it's extremely silly that anyone could call black box a crutch when it has 1 less rocket in clip, which makes those players really easy to trick into emptying their whole clip really fast and simply outdamage with stock when you can shoot them with 1 more rocket for their measly max 60 hp that they get in combat, which makes it pretty underpowered actually. you're a bad player if you can't kill a black box user with stock, not the other way around.

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Black Box + Conch is the crutch, not black box alone. It allows for some seriously forgiving soldier play for new players, while gimping experienced ones due to the lack of extra rocket. Which is why it's considered a crutch. I swear, no one in this thread knows what a crutch is. No idea where this "I got killed by it, so I'll call it a crutch" meme even came from.

>>182169451
Blame Videogames, he's the fuck that put together the original crutch list image

>>182170134
That image has been floating around since at least before Gun Mettle, though. Black Box used to be worse.

>>182166269
The Equalizer

>>182169451
Aside from the funslinger, are there any other paradigm shift weapons/loadouts in tf2? Would the milk/sandman turn scout from a frontliner/flanker into a support? (Heals, stuns, psychological area denial*)

*When half of your pushing power is milked, they naturally want to retreat or hold a corner for the effect to wear off. The enemy pocket/demo getting burst healing from hitting you isn't easy to overcome unless you focus fire that single person

I've been wearing my halloween cosmetics all day and only just realised it's not full moon anymore LOL

black box fix
>rockets fly slightly slower
>heals you with a 10:1 damage to health ratio with no cap to how much one rocket can heal

>>182170723
Black box as it is right now is perfectly fine. It's only cancer when paired with the conch, and bb/conch soldiers are shit.

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>>182170259
I know. I avidly abused it like the hatless shitstain I was

>>182169451
so black box + concheror is a crutch but black box and concheror on their own aren't crutches. it's either one or the other that is a crutch, because they don't combo with each other like guillotine and sandman (protip: it's concheror because of its passive effect)

nothing that you can avoid by playing skillfully is a crutch, even darwin's danger shield can be broken through if you charge your shot before headshotting the user. it's only a real problem when a good player uses it and doesn't allow you charge your shot a single time because he instantly kills you when you peek. getting bad that some gibus uses it is one of the most pathetic things I've heard about. learn to snipe instead

direct hit isn't a crutch either, just don't get in the dead zone around its user, in which you can't react to the rocket shot at you and fight at mid to long range instead. it's that simple, there are more examples

the things that are actual crutches is shit that gives you a bonus for literally nothing, but as I proved even some of those like DDS can be played around. the problem starts with shit like crit a cola or sandman when you can't possibly play around what makes them dangerous (but even with sandman, just move unpredictably horizontally given you see a scout around and you won't get it with the ball), not pomson, reserve shooter or whatever else

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5 year veteran badge when


I'm here since 2010 where's my reward

>>182170969
Also post age badges and time you've been lurking. I wanna see how many fags are as new as I am.

I've been h*ckpostin on and off for about 3 years now

how would you fix the concheror

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>valve will gut the cancerous airblast because b4nny and other pros asked them to
>furfag rage will be huge, even bigger than the tough break tears

I can feel it coming in the air tonight, oh Lord
And I've been waiting for this moment for all my life, oh Lord
Can you feel it coming in the air tonight, oh Lord, oh Lord

>>182171291
I played since 2008 and I have mercenary and I just realized recently new players also get this

at least I also have proof of purchase, r-right...?

>>182171131
>Charging shots
wew

>>182171386
In how much fucking months are you seeing this coming oh wise shitter ?

>>182171291
>>>/csgog/

>>182171386
>updates on sunday
????

>>182171386
>Nerfing the one thing that makes Pyro worth something

t. Doesn't know what a shotgun is

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>>182171359
>>182170969

Friendly reminder that it's still not fixed/
https://youtu.be/AVlhyKViR80

>>182172176
>Unusual aussie
?

>>182172176
>have fun until it gets fixed
LOL

>>182171364
speed of healing dependent on amount of rage meter filled starting with 0 at 0 fill

>>182173165
also make the damage needed to charge the same as the other banners

>>182172176
what is cond reset?

>>182173639
t. brainlet

>>182173639
Hot new exploit skiddies are using to ruin games.

>>182173571
battalion's backup is just as bad btw, they need to buff the effect and remove that max health bonus

"okay, this is a good banner, but no one will want to use it probably, because the effects are not as obvious as the others. I know! let's add +20 max health, so it can serve as a crutch at all times! that's enough incentive for using it instead of buff banner!"

sandman is the opposite - "okay, this stun mechanic was a bad idea but instead of removing it let's make it give -15 max health so maybe not as many players will want to use it!"

>>182174921
Please refrain from using the word crutch again, thanks

>>182174921
>Batallons Backup
>Crutch

~$rm yurself

>>182175738
>>182175842
220 health instead of 200 is literally a crutch and one of the only situations where the word actually applies

Once again proving my point that no one on /tf2g/ knows what a crutch is.

F*uck you

>>182172176
>that autistic song
>that scout pistol
kill me

I hecked up my ankle ages ago ice skating. I had to use crutches for support. So I think I know about a thing or two concerning crutches

I love Team Fortress 2 and the last 3-4 times I've played it, they went really really well. I love Gold Rush

so

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I wouldn't call the Backup a crutch, but speaking as someone who plays a lot of Demo, it's really fucking aggravating to lose a fight with a Soldier even though you piped him twice just because he has that equipped and shot the floor near you.

stop talking about the backup

and start talking about the BB

stop talking about the tf2

>>182179082
i like using the bb to counter the bb
but if someone on the enemy team uses the bb it really fucks you up

BB could mean
>Black Box
>Batalions Backup
>Beggars Bazooka
>Boston Basher
>Buff Banner
>Brass Beast
>Bazaar Bargin
why is there so many BB's

[B]hy [B]ot

Big Benis

>>182172539
its just a reskin of their scattergun skin that is unusual i think

>>182176180
>20 hp
>1 heavy boolet med-long range
>Keep yourself from cratering if you're lucky
>maybe Splash damage mitigation
>Three pills if you are at 110-101% hp

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Neat. I got rolled live on someone's stream.

>>182176565
it's everything that allows the player to live longer for little to no effort

examples of crutches:
>crit a cola
just take a sip and become a more powerful scout automatically, downside doesn't mean anything
>concheror
equip it to regenerate health automatically
>battalion's backup
equip it to have more health automatically
>razorback
equip it to become immune to a backstab automatically
>danger shield
equip it to have more health automatically and become immune to a quick scope headshot on top of that, downside doesn't really mean much
>overdose
be able to run faster for what you always do automatically
>diamondback
get crits for what you always do automatically
>spy cicle
makes you immune to fire automatically
>frontier justice
get crits for not being able to make your buildings stay up for long automatically
>sandvich
use and have full health automatically
>dalokohs bar
use and have more health automatically

examples of not crutches at all:
>reserve shooter
just be stupid and don't get close enough to the pyros so they can airblast you
>bonk! atomic punch
you can't be dealt damage or deal damage when you drink it, it evens out
>direct hit
don't get close to the soldier you idiot
>pomson
those projectiles are so stupidly slow that only standing in spammable chokes makes you vulnerable
>sandman
don't run in a straight line towards scout
>stickybomb launcher
don't fight demoman at mid range
>huo long heater
ring of fire requires ammo

depends on situation:
>dead ringer
makes you able to survive when you shouldn't automatically, but it may also serve as a purposeful fake death tool
>escape plan
allows for easier escape when you've overextended or done stupid shit automatically, but you may also use faster speed skillfully to get where you want faster

okay I'm done I can't be fucked to type out more, you get the gist

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>>182181354
I'm also a colossal fuckup.

>>182181373
You're moronic. Stop looking purely at item stats and look at how the item is played.

>>182181719
I bet you're just mad that I called sandvich a crutch which it is :^)

>>182181373
you just proved his point
>danger shield doesn't make good players worse, therefore its not a crutch
>people know to stay away from pyros at high levels, therefore the reserve is useless, making it a crutch

>>182181373
no it's something that makes high level players worse at the game but low level players better than their actual level. some of the weapons you listed as crutches are just flat out overpowered rather than crutches.

When is the update coming?

example of crutch:
>weapon you use

example of not a crutch:
>weapon I use

>>182182404
I use stock, checkmate nerd

>>182182472
>muh no upsides OR downsides
crutch detected
checkmate, dork

>>182182347
not today retard
with the massive VAC ban this week it's likely we'll see the update this month

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Post solider loadouts.

>>182182218
>>182182235
crutch isn't something that makes good players worse, it's what makes everyone better regardless of their skill level

with that logic you may call every replacement for direct hit, brass beast or stock scattergun a crutch just because they have highest possible dps

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>>182182472
>he uses stock
I bet you also kiss girls you crutch using fuck

>>182183027
you cant run with crutches

>>182182404
examples of a crutch:
>classes you main

>example of not a crutch
>classes I main

>>182183123
umm what? I can

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none of you people know what crutches are
THIS is a crutch

>>182181232
even 1 hp bonus would be shitty

>>182182972
No.

>>182182798
Fuck (you)

>>182183027
>I literally do not know what a crutch is

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>all these hostile nerds who literally call everything a crutch.
>I bet they're the same ones who post 'balance changes' to weapons and believe that their overly nerfed ideas deserve any recognition.

okay, post some weapons that AREN'T crutches
I'll start with one
>pistol

>>182183887
who are you quoting

>>182183995
Stock items are crutches.
>>182183887
Your argument is a crutch.

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>>182181373
>it's everything that allows the player to live longer for little to no effort
No.
A crutch is an item that benefits worse players, but cripples better players.
>old soda popper
>despite having high speed and two jumps I STILL can't get in my enemy's face and survive, with free minicrits I can stay at a distance, but give up my 6 shots
>danger shield
>I'm too bad to do my one job (sniping) so I dismiss my secondary in favor of winning battles I should've lost
>vita-saw
>I die too much as a medic, so instead of getting better and avoiding death I try to do better despite dying all the time
>Loch (pre some nerfs I guess)
>I can't hit pipes at normal speed so I give up overall dps and rollers (these are important) for easier pipes

>>182184268
nah, high level snipers with the danger shield perform leagues better than they would normally. it's straight up overpowered, not a crutch.

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>>182174921
>Battallion
>crutch
Ugh no... Just too situational and makes Soldier a secondary pocket alternative besides a support banner.
I pair it with Air Strike for extra fun.

>>182181373
>Battallion
Extra health can be justified, when you toot your horn you'll be the primary target among your team.
Instead of coding more damage reduction Valve see fit to give it passive health, because you won't be able to convince more than 3 people when organizing an attack everytime, so it wants you to become pocket.
>Frontier Justice
Loading up more than 6-8 crits to the FJ is pointless and putting all eggs in a basket.
To benefit from crit shots Engineer have to "destroy" the building first in a time he sees fit, which is not equal to turtling behind a Sentry. Also pellets' effectiveness reduced greatly by range.
Headrushing forward 20 crits in stock at a 3 magsize Shotty generally leads to your death.
>Sandvich & Dalokoh's
Offers Heavy a more offensive gameplay and over-extending by keeping his Medic alive. Dalokoh's have extra benefits but still hardly can rival Sandvich when the subject has a Medic in it.
With Shotgun, Heavy have more defensive gameplay based upon positioning instead of overextending beyond obstacles and no one wants that. Sandvich is a crutch that is so good, it rewrote the whole Heavy gameplay meta by offering new heights.
>Overdose
Only useful at surfing enemy rockets, that's all and you have to wield it to benefit from it. It's beyond me why didn't even mention Crusader's Crossbow but this petty little peaspitter.
It's not even makes you play better, nor cause you to have a superior advantage. You can reach a higher speed by pocketing a Scout and when you reach max uber you ought to deploy it, so you never fully benefit from its speed bonus at all.

>>182184268
>>182183694
see
>>182183027

if you define that crutch makes good players worse and at the same time bad players better, then everything that doesn't offer highest possible dps is a crutch, because everything that doesn't offer highest possible dps makes good players worse

saying what's a crutch isn't a matter of opinion and if you go by that definition you have to accept that anything but the direct hit from soldier's primaries is a crutch by your definition, otherwise I'm correct

and of course I am correct, your definition is wrong :^)

>>182184890
retard

>>182184890
the term "crutch" comes from actual crutches
if you can walk then using crutches would put you at a disadvantage

>>182185806
even if that's the case then direct hit is the only non-crutch soldier primary, which is stupid, so you need to change the definition

if not then "crutch" means absolutely nothing and stop spouting this nonsense, because you're just making yourself like a fool if you seriously use that word

>>182186308
direct hit is a sidegrade because of the loss of splash damage

Jesus fucking christ, do you actually play the game? Numbers alone doesn't make something a crutch.

Rolling and non rolling pills each have their own strategic uses. The Iron Bombers better accuracy is because stock pills shape gives them a wonkier trajectory. Stock should be changed to match the iron bombers consistency.

actual list crutches with reasoning

>baby face's
allows you to move faster for free
why its a crutch: bads can't aim and therefore you have a free speed boost most of the time
if there is a good player he will shut you down every time

>back scatter
only good against unaware idiots
you will lose every 1v1 against normal scouts if they see you, and chances are they will

>black box + conch combo (ONLY BOTH COUNT AS CRUTCH)
you will more likely be able to outlive events you wouldnt otherwise, but you are a useless piece of shit without 1 rocket and a shotgun, letting anyone slightly competent shut you down
also, you dont have to manage health as much
make a mistake, no problem, here's some health

>base jumper
allows you to avoid fall damage if you fuck up and lets you land ez market gardens on idiots but makes you an easy target in the sky

>panic attack
the "i dont know if there is an enemy or not so ill just load in 4 shells just to be safe but lose every time i get flanked" gun

>phlog
you are only able to live long enough if you are playing against braindead idiots to deal crits
you are completely helpless against soldiers
there is no strategy except for brainlessly holding your mouse button

>reserve shooter
free minicrits on bads who dont know to stay away
those who do know to stay away dont get affected by it

>scorch shot
lots of spam without any actual damage, only a slight hindrance to good players while bad players cant dodge shots

>loch n load
allows you to hit shots way easier but you lose a lot of roller damage

>all shields
free damage mitigation for giving up the gun with the best area control and damage in the game
also a panic escape button in case you fuck up and decide this fight isn't for you
im not even going to talk about demoknight's swords

>natashca
allows you to hit more shots on idiots who get caught in your line of sight, but you lose a fuck ton of dps, and every single heavy 1v1

cont.

i like cheatboy memes

i don't know about engineer or medic but theyre mostly fine, though many people will say the gunslinger is a crutch, but i don't see how

>sydney sleeper
if youre bad at hitting headshots you should switch to stock and keep practicing with it, not by switching to a weapon that makes bodyshots easier

>razorback
nobody but a fresh install will fall for the razorback, you give up your close-range option for immunity from spies who are either braindead or you either have a team to rely on, in which case its just an annoying shit item

>diamondback
the only time youll be taking out ez sentry nests and doing massive chainstabs is in a pub, but good luck trying to farm crits against a competent team as they will know exactly what youre up to

>spy-cicle
a spy's job is to take out key targets
if he gets caught he has an easy way out but now hes pretty much useless for 15 seconds, and its more than enough time to shut him down with other ways

>dead ringer
king of crutches
if you fuck up, you have a free get-out-of-jail card
only fools who don't know how to spot a dr spy will fall for it but anyone with a brain knows the spy is going to make a bee-line towards the nearest ammo box
the repeating feints only make everything worse as the spy doesn't end up accomplishing anything against competent players and they don't manage to kill him because of his annoying shit watch
like the spy-cicle, but universal

this guy knows what he's talking about

>>182187463
Thank wanderer for making cheatboy.

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>>182170969
>>182171359

anyone has that gif of different captions over a computer screen like "i don't even use a mouse, mice are crutches" and "i'm so good, i don't even play this game"

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>>182171359
been here for around 4 years i think

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>mfw i spot a primeveal warrior in the pre-match warmup

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>>182171359
been here since gunmettle

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I deleted my Mercenary Badge, but this is basically when I first started out with TF2

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>>182171359
fucking n*wfags in this thread

>>182188293
>tfw that comic is full of cucking
Couldve been good desu.

Its taking them so long. Turns out i wont miss the update launch like last summer haha
Also what are the prettiest jump maps?

>>182187363
>>182187492
Bad list, bad reasonings. A crutch isnt just a weapon that you dont like.

>>182188672
debate them, then

>>182188754
Lemme go mow my lawn first.

>>182188842
i wont
im gonna go mow your lawn
now debate my arguments if you think theyre bad

>>182188645
jump_pagoda was the best looking one back when i was heavy into them, nowadays there are so many neat ones i can't tell
>>182188594
is it really cucking if they weren't fucking in the first place

>its a Primeval Warrior wearer is actually shit at the game episode
this has become a regular sight lately, are they buying the account or just never play?

>>182188645
eons, cube, above/sitood are pretty

>>182189134
why would anyone buy an account just for a badge
you didnt earn the badge
its not yours
do you really feel like you deserve wearing it
i dont understand these people

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>>182171359

>another general I'm in starts accusing things that aren't crutches of being crutches
I blame you, /tf2g/

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>>182188492
>october 4 2008
>silver
WHAT

WHAT THE FUCK

WHATDAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWNKASF

WHAT'S THE FUCKING CUTOFF??????????

>>182189392
>why would someone buy an achievement/trophy/medal
It's not hard to understand.

>>182189392
People like to feel superior to others, even if the means of doing so aren't legitimate

>>182189134
I have quit TF2 for the period of 6 years

>>182189601
Cutoff was October 9th, '08.

>>182189642
no, it is pretty hard to understand
would you buy an olympics medal and claim youve earned it even though youre a nobody?

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i pwned this guy

>>182189770
I wouldn't because I don't fucking care. People buy trophies and medals because they haven't or couldn't earn them but they want to display some form of achievement to someone generally. Some people just buy it for the satisfaction of owning it, some people want to say "oh I did ____" or "I played ____ during ____" without actually doing whatever the prize is for. People who do it don't care about the journey, they care about the destination.

>>182189770
Are you actually autistic or something?

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>>182189904
>when there's an oblivious sniper there that just keeps dodging your tauntkill and his teammates catch you but don't kill you instead opting to watch the show because it's just so dumb
best i ever got was two heavies and their pocket med, they kept cheering with c5 and c8 it was great

>>182190220
the best feeling is when its an enemy player who lets you taunt kill their teammate and then they say "good job"

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>>182187363
That's a list I can agree.mostly.

>baby face's
>why its a crutch: bads can't aim and therefore you have a free speed boost most of the time
It doesn't make you play good just because bad people miss 50% of their shots, other 50% will still hit and slow you down.
When taken as alone it's just a shit weapon, try it without Bonk or any bleeding damage weapon.
It's a degrade from stock Scattergun like any other alternative, but has a passive cut like no other.

>phlog
Alright, at pubs you have lots of shitheads and a Pyro can feed upon them to turn back at you. Still a shitweapon instead of a crutch.
It needs a max ammunition cut penalty to force Pyro to farm flame damage slower by standing around Dispenser or using a flare secondary.
So at least people use it like it's intended; camp alcoves near ramps, low profile crouch-evade and divebomb when you filled the Mmmph.

>loch n'load
I don't see it honestly. Iron Bomber is almost a direct upgrade but Loch's play style just different.
You can 2 shot a non-wrangled Sentry but can't reach a well hidden Sentry beyond a choke like stock or Iron. You have SBL anyway.

>base jumper
Oh no, 200 health soldier evaded 20 fall damage by a parachute redeploy. Nah. It makes you an open target for a good Sniper
Redeploy was the only thing that makes you evade them. Now it's getting a useless nerf as well to balance it with Mantreads.

>sydney
>not by switching to a weapon that makes bodyshots easier
What is Huntsman? Sydney is the only weapon in Sniper's arsenal to hold a choke point.

so is tagged gay or not

>>182190963
black people cant be gay

>>182191068
tell that to the demoman

then explain this
https://youtu.be/diSnziHzXuM

>>182191703
the demo is a work of fiction, and tagg is a real human being.
this doesn't mean anything.
>>182191765
just some jokes between bros

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then explain this

>>182188910
heck off, i already mowed it

>>182187363
>>182187492
Baby Face isnt a crutch because the speed boost isnt free. It's hard to build and easy to lose. It's not a crutch, its just plain ol bad. Along with that, only good players will be able to adadadad well enough to make the most of it.

Back Scatter isnt a crutch, its situational. It rewards getting on the flank while making head on attacks less effective. it's not used as much because situational weapons are never as useful as all around decent weapons.

Base Jumper is the opposite of a crutch. People who say it's easy to hit parachuters are people who have only played against bads who cant air strafe well. If you can air strafe then you can make the most of the immense mobility it gives. It's essentially what the new mantreads will give, plus the ability to better control your fall speed, plus the ability to negate fall damage. Its really fun and you should use it before it gets nerfed.

The Panic Attack is a bad weapon on classes that arent the Engineer. On engineer, its a sidegrade that benefits you when you know youre going into battle, but punishes you when youre caught off guard. It's pretty ironic, considering its purpose.

Pyro as a whole is a crutch, not just the Phlog.

On soldier, the reserve shooter rewards players who can consistently pop people up with rockets, along with punishing bombers. It's OP, not a crutch.
On Pyro I hesitate to call it a crutch because, while it's free and easy, there isnt really a more effective way to play Pyro.

Saying the shields are a crutch is like saying the gunboats are a crutch for all the exact same reasons you listed.

The fact that the Sydney Sleeper now rewards headshots keeps it from being a crutch.

Razorback is ironically only useful in high level highlander (>highlander) where the spy is one of the two reliable counters to the sniper.

>>182188954
I cant enjoy shortstack femdom when the femdom is doing it behind her husbands back.

>>182190310
Even better when they do the laugh taunt

>>182192031
100 damage for scout is easy as fuck to build up
one meatshot or two mid-range shots and youre maxed
adad movement is completely pointless with it since getting damaged even a little slows your adad down to nothing
still, its a pretty bad crutch, which is why no one is concerned with it

base jumper is easy as fuck to deal with if youre a hitscan class and most of the time you know where the soldier is going to land and anticipate him with projectiles

gunboats arent a crutch because you are not giving up a weapon as important as the sticky launcher
they allow you a more aggressive playstyle as rockets deal more damage the closer you are to the enemy
the same cannot be said about demoman, where charging into someone while lobbing grenades will most likely get you killed too
its only a useful tool for escaping or charging with melee, and the mobility it gives isnt that great either

the reserve shooter on pyro is a crutch regardless of whether it is or isnt the most effective way to play him

sleeper doesnt require you to headshot to get targets killed, which is sniper's role

>>182190572
if you combine a phlog with uber on a valve pub server you would not believe how many idiots get killed by that thing
theres nothing you can do either, since your retarded team just keeps feeding him mmph

>loch
rollers are a massive upside
no demo has perfect accuracy and can hit godly shots, even if you have the loch
you lose the ability to spam chokepoints or sentries around corner all for easier shots you should be able to hit anyways (with some practice)

>sleeper
you shouldnt be a sniper if you have to hold a chokepoint, switch to a normal class

>Loch isn't a crutch because no rollers
You tard. Loch is a crutch precisely for that reason. A weapon having downsides does not make it not a crutch.

>>182194321
>100 damage for scout is easy as fuck to build up
>adad movement is completely pointless with it since getting damaged even a little slows your adad down to nothing
conflicting statements. losing your boost so easily is precisely why build9ing boost is so hard.

>base jumper is easy as fuck to deal with if youre a hitscan class and most of the time you know where the soldier is going to land and anticipate him with projectiles
not everyone is a hitscan class. also
>implying the soldier is gonna land anywhere near you
you seriously dont understand how mobile that thing makes you. you can hop around a corner, shoot some rockets off, and drift back around before you even land.

>gunboats arent a crutch because you are not giving up a weapon as important as the sticky launcher
heck off, the shotgun is a fantastic weapon. fantastic enough that its standard for the pocket soldier.
>its only a useful tool for escaping or charging with melee, and the mobility it gives isnt that great either
that doesnt describe it as a crutch, just as not as good as the gunboats.

>sleeper doesnt require you to headshot to get targets killed, which is sniper's role
it still rewards you for headshots, which is what snipers are meant to be getting.

>>182194902
wordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswords

Unless pyro update makes the flamethrower/afterburn hitscan then he will always be garbage due to the fire being so unreliable and shitty. The shotgun is a better weapon than the flamethrower in every way.

Maybe nerf the effectiveness of airblast on people somehow but increase it's fire rate so he's more effective of a soldier counter.

>>182195227
It's a reference to something.
I forgot to save it because it's some deviantart shit with dale and some spider monster girl.

lets make scout immune to afterburn to make him more effective of a pyro counter

>when you solo beat the highlander stack in casual

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7ZlSHGFfdc

comp players leave my pubs at once

>>182195319
>Pyro gets an ability that makes fights against projectile classes not so completely one sided
>people are still taking this as Pyro being intended to be a hard counter to them

>>182196036
reflecting projectiles is fine and one of the only fun things about pyro. reflecting entire people 50 feet away by right clicking on them is not fun to fight against especially considering the wonky hitboxes.

>>182196036

Why would it be a problem if pyro could hard counter soldier, or at least a rocket spamming one? Is soldier having a serious reliable check a bad thing?

>>182196846
>rocket spamming
man i hate it when people rocket spam
and when every hitscan class bullet spams me
and when the medic medi-beam spams me

fucking engineers spamming their wrenches on their sentries
fucking heavies spamming bullets with their miniguns
fucking snipers spamming headshots with their rifles

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>>182196008
highlander isn't comp, it's a fucking abomination

>>182197296
>kids from my generation are retarded, except me and my friends haha

>>182197417
who are you quoting

>>182197524
a dumb fag lol

Is VNN credible?

tf2 is a crutch for people who cant play quake
you cannot disprove this

>>182197778
nothing on youtube is credible
unless you hear it directly from Valve then it's probably horse shit

tfw the pyro perfectly reflects all ur DH rockets when you're right in his face

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>>182197867
>valve is credible
hahhaha oh my shit

>>182197984
an easy method to fool a pyro is to alternate between shotgun and rocket launcher shots
this confuses the pyro

>Them not releasing things on time suddenly means they don't know best what they're doing with their own fucking game

>>182197778
It's all speculation and fanboying, avoid.

>>182198253
I thought since I was using the DH, it would throw him off. He did it twice, but he disconnected before I could be really sure. I've seen too many pyros use an autoreflect script, I don't expect any of them to have 100% perfect accuracy.

lmao valve hardly cares about their games

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>>182198026
>HL2:E3
>Coincident with the rapture

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>>182198026
>>182199764

>>182200685
XD

>>182169451
>spycicle counters pyro so it's bad
The only issue is with it having no downside. Not that it doesn't counter something. Razorback shouldn't be allowed to be overhealed.

>>182172176
The only ever fun exploit was the infinite bonk glitch. Prove me wrong. You literally canneth

>its another aimbot Ambassador spy with a DR killing the entire team in 3 seconds then just DRing away

Bring the update valve nerf this shit already

the downside to spycicle is that when you're playing HL and a pyro puffs you youre not killing anyone for the next few seconds

>>182201273
Idea for Spycicle (or a knife debuff in general):
>Backstab only deals max base health of target

>>182201460
gunslinger guaranteed crit punch was fun, especially with tele launching
also charge cancelling was amazing for the few days it was in
>>182201581
>HL spies
>actually stabbing anything
they're just a discount sniper that can ignore the respawn timer

>>182201768

I think the revolver needs a buff. It's so shit that any utility applied to it makes it immediately better (crit gimmicks, +cloak, etc).

Jump_elephant is the most fun tier 2 map
Prove me wrong

>>182202468
Its fine as it is, doesnt it do more bodyshot dmg than the others?

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>>182198337
>autoreflect script

>>182203501
There's a special place in baddie hell reserved for people who need to cheat as pyro.

>>182202705

Yes it does, but that's not good enough to warrant losing +40 cloak or a sniper rifle.

this pyro script shit reminds me of one time when i was playing pipeline
>be soldier
>enemy pyro reflects everything
>damn hes pretty good
>notice hes reflecting behind corners
>brain catches on
>equip rocket jumper
>spam at him every opportunity i get
>his autoreflect doesnt distinguish between projectiles and hes too dumb to turn it off
>cant stop reflecting them
>cant press m1
>ends up dying to teammates every encounter
so satisfying

>>182202548
eh, good progression and not too frustrating, guess i cant

>>182204198
Maybe you dont want either of those things
Seems to me like you want the other weps nerfed, not stock buffed

Hope they cap DH base damage to a max of 110
Its the only solly wep to get speed bonus AND dmg bonus at the same time

what's your h*cking problem

>>182205602
>Trying to pass off as a namefag that changes their name every post
embarassing tbph
also get out of my face scout main

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@182187463
Great taste friend, truly a world renowned fragger right here gentlemen

>>182206201
What's your problem with namefags?

>>182206668
I dunno dude

Please stop samefagging your shitty forced meme already, we already found out who the Cheatboy is. Seriously, Wander, it isn't funny.

i alternate between stock and black box. never in my life have i thought to myself "gee i wish i had one more rocket loaded right now" when using the black box. i just load another shot and keep firing because of how fast soldier reloads. on the flipside, whenever i use stock i can mentally calculate how many times not having an inflated health pool has fucked me over due to soldier's godawful long-term survivability.

black box is just better in every conceivable way. it isn't a crutch, it's an upgrade. the only way it wouldn't be the go-to option in 90% of situations is if soldier's base reload speed was slowed down, or if they reduced the health gain to a flat +10 for each target hit.

>Soldier reloads
>Fast
? ? ? ? ? ? ?

if you die as soldier you are honestly so awful

first shot reload is only 120 milliseconds longer that stock + the short initial delay. that's fast enough to spam eternally.

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>>182191068
THAN EXPLANE THIS YOU NON FLAT EARTHER

SOLDIER FIX

>Increased rocket launcher firing rate by 12.5% (700ms between shots)
>Rockets now take a full second each to load.
>Direct Hit now has a 15% slower firing speed penalty.
>Cow Mangler 5000 now has a +25% clip size bonus and 15% slower firing speed penalty.
>Liberty Launcher now reloads 20% faster.
>Air strike removed from the game.
>Removed splash radius penalty from Beggar's Bazooka.
>Increased Righteous Bison projectile speed by 50%. Reduced damage by 50%. Increased firing rate by 12.5%. Fixed a bug where particles would not be able hit the same target multiple times. Fixed map collision issues that would delete the projectile from existence.
>Gunboats self damage resistance reduced to 40% and shared with Demoman.

>>182166269
degreaser

i love my tf2gfu

>>182184007
in english?

I
LOVE
MY
TEE
EFF
TWO
GEE
EEF
UUU

someone please make an update related shitpost I want to get my hopes up

>>182209226
suck many pennis love you long time

Official TF2 Crutch List:
Anything that's not Stock
Pyro
Heavy
Sniper
Spy

holy shit they made the pyro harder to use, but not worthless.
how the fuck do they do it?!?!

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I guess this raffle is kinda worth entering:

https://scrap.tf/raffles/N4CNML

in it for that melee token

>>182210696
honeypot, do no enter

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>>182210775

it's a One Winner raffle though, if you win you'll have to deal with these hats and scrap too.

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>>182210513
Engineer is missing from the list.
>I can't aim so I'll just use stationary bots that get shit on by Demos
>Packs? Medics? Meh, just stand here motionless while you heal up
>Have fun running/jumping to your destination, I'll just set up a stationary, easily disabled teleporter
>*BURP*

>>182211115
Thank you sir, I forgot he existed as he does nothing in the game.

>>182210492
https://pastebin.com/ejAvNaAH

How do I aim for heads with my huntsman again?

aim far to the left of their hitbox. it may appear to fly past them but then it rubberbands into their head.

>>182212593
Fire vaguely towards the enemy
You'll get one almost guaranteed

https://youtu.be/h_xi9q3VvA4
I think I've found it, the absolute worse tf2 video in existence. Please prove me wrong, I want to know how bad it gets.

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>>182212593

>>182166696
why the fuck did they change that, that works so much better for pyro than fast movement.

>>182169451
what idiot made this?

>>182167810
I had a great time, would defo recommend

>>182212942
There was one I've seen that I think was posted here that was some jap playing tf2 and there was a text to speech talking over it.
I'm not sure if that's what you're looking for but it weirded me out when I watched it.

>>182211115
>he doesn't use the sentry as bait for people to shoot at while shitting on them with the shotgun
>not putting the dispenser in a corner where it can be missed by the enemy and helpful for the team
>not setting up a teleporter that fucks with spies who try to be clever and use it

you're doing it wrong

>>182213027
>>182212754
can you please be a tad more specific?

>>182213027
>still easier to hit sniper shots than the huntsman
>have to get close to your enemy and react fast
>all those sniper mains that get livid that you're using a crutch

God I love the huntsman.

>>182213701
aim above their head and press l1

the vertical hit box is huge iirc.

cylindrical hitboxes when

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>>182213701
head hitbox for huntsman doesn't move with model since it's a projectile weapon. Leading the shot to one of the upper corners of that rectangular hitbox should give you a headshot.
To be more specific, here's what I use; consider their faceforward direction at enemy spawn and aim for the upper behind corner areas of that rectangular shape.

meme tier - engineer
shit tier - soldier
low tier - scout, sniper, spy
mid tier - heavy
high tier - medic
god tier - demoman
elder god tier - pyro

>>182213732
something over 200 hours on sniper, i don't know exactly how much since i reset my hours at one point, but i can barely use the huntsman. my arrows just don't seem to gravitate towards people's heads like everyone claims they do. i don't even get upset when huntsman snipers kill me with it, as far as i'm concerned they earned that.

>>182206504
who are you talking to

sniper shotgun

+crits on headshot
-30% pellet count
-34% clip size
no random critical hits

>>182214934
why

sounds dumb

>>182184268
the dog is right though. b4nny is a retard with low reaction time, low sensitivity, average aim and average gamesense and nothing he says has any value.

>>182214603
heres what you do.

never. unless the guy is litterally just standing still, never go for long range shots.

if the guy is in medium range aim for his body, lead the shot a bit of course, and this will give you 120 damage. aim a bit high to the torso and maybe you'll get a headshot. People will freak out when you suddenly take almost all their health, great time to hit them again or finish them with the SMG.

if the guy is in close range get REALLY close to him, this will sound crazy but the huntsman hitbox seems to break at close range and you will never miss, just aim above the head and you will get free kills. Practice this on bots and you'll see what I'm talking about.

what you want to go for are the medium close range shots. this requires you to play like the heavy (this is very important) jump corners and pull back your bow. Do this on EVERY corner. or wait for them to come to you. be very calm and just trust that you will hit them. again practice this on bots.

Also carry the SMG, it does shit damage but it has perfect first shots meaning you can deal 5 damage at long range (the exact amount you need to kill someone that got hit with an arrow). Its also nice to have when people are really trying to dodge your arrows.

Whatever you fucking do, do not carry jarate.

>>182214934
We already have that; it's called the Cleaner's Carbine

>>182215121
because the huntsman isn't hitscan and the classic sucks.

>>182215335
why does sniper need a short range weapon

>>182215379
because long range instant deaths are bullshit.
And short range instant deaths are fine.

I'd assume this replaces the sniper rifle.

^182214919
Lamoing at this brainlet right tf now

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>>182215335
Speaking of the Classic is there anything that could make it better so it could stop being a "dick around" weapon?
faster charge speed?
Mini-crits on the head shots that aren't fully charged

>>182216224
crit falloff and crits at any charge.

so crits at close minicrits long.

>>182216224
>>182216350

>Can headshot regardless of scoped or not
>Can't charge

>>182196846
>Why would it be a problem if pyro could completely shut down a classes primary weapon as a main function?

>>182216224
>Artistic chair
lmao you fucking IDIOT

>>182216737
>Whip out shotgun
>Nothing personal, kiddo

>LFT Soldier on the enemy team
>his Medic butt buddy has that stupid gift hat
LITERALLY what do you do?

>>182216840
>play roamer
>*wwhips out shotgun**
>oh wait I have the gunboots
>die

>>182216737
you mean like razor back?
In fact razor back is worse because spy is supposed to counter sniper.

>>182216954

>Pyro deserves to be garbage
>No soldier should have to fear anything in this game

I'm not even suggesting that pyro be given some sort of rocket negating tool, just that airblast be better against projectiles so it's more of an even playing field.

>>182216840
oh right, i guess ill never equip anything other than a shotgun ever again

>>182217086
the razorback is cancer too. im glad its getting nerfed in a way that makes Sniper weaker to his other counter, but it probably wont make much difference in pub play.

>>182216737
>see a pyro
>oh shit wait do i have to like think or something now?
>nah I'm just gonna fire randomly like I always do

>>182217218
>just that airblast be better against projectiles
Excuse me?

>>182217276
>>oh right, i guess ill never equip anything other than a shotgun ever again
>use rescue ranger and wrangler
>suddenly spies shut me down if they sap my gear
>if only I could get free kills off this class

rocket jump away if you have the gunboats then idiot.

>>182217314

You could increase airblast RoF, or increase projectile speed of reflected projectiles.

Pyro needs a rework, not just straight buffs. He should overall be much more of a threat to soldiers and demos.

>>182217403
>use rescue ranger and wrangler
>suddenly spies shut me down if they sap my gear
what the fuck are you even saying? the RR damages enemies too you know, it doesnt just heal.

>>182217503
Is this a joke? Unless you're garbage there isn't an issue with projectile reflection, I don't understand your argument. And reflected projectiles are already very fast.

>>182217585
yeah and you can hit the pyro with splash.

and before you say "but the pyro could be good", the spy could headshot and then body shot you before you can do 80 damage max with the RR.

Airblast reflection time should have a larger window.

>>182217589

My argument is pyro is a shit class and should be better in general. Specifically, he should be a solid counter to soldier and demo. Currently he is neither of those things because successfully reflecting is much more difficult than shooting rockets at they pyro.

the scout should be immune to all fire damage so that he can better counter pyro

>>182218029
The scout already blows pyro the fuck out so hard it's pointless.

>>182217947
A competent pyro can shut them down already, again I don't understand your point. ____ class plays differently than _____ class, why don't I have it as easy as them in different situations? Is this your view point?

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>>182218242

>>182218245
Is this the fantasy world where pyro is a good soldier check?

@182216602&182218242
Alright look.....i don't know who u r but u need 2 stop ok???

#182218396
I SAID STOP RIGHT NIW

>>182218431
This is the fantasy world where you are decent at airblasting.

>>182218242
>/k/ weapon maintenance.gif

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>>182218396

>>182218856
that's what you get for liking umaru-chan, nerd

182218856
get good

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Since most anon's seem to dislike the Meet the Pyro video, i ask you, what would have changed it to be instead as well as showing off Pyro as a character?

>>182218856
lmao just git gud
the sole consistent factor in all those matches is you
it's not your team that's the problem, it's you

>>182219284
Meet the Pyro is absolutely fine as it is. It's just kids who just recently outgrew their edgy phase who dislike it. It perfectly showcases the pyro's character. i.e. a mass murdering psychopathic monster

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>>182166269
tide turner

>>182218946
HECK OFF I HAVENT EVEN WATCHED THAT SHOW.

>>182219159
>>182219308
HOW THE FUCK DO I GET GOOD AGAINST RANDOM CRITS AND HAVING THREE SNIPERS ON MY TEAM? IM ALREADY TOP SCORING, HOW MUCH BETTER DO I NEED TO BE TO CARRY ELEVEN MEXICANS?

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>>182219538
juan.martinez2006

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>>182170969

>>182213701
Do you remember that simpsons episode where bart and list put up their chin and go something along the lines of "i never knew my chin could reach so high"?
Basically you have to walk around like that

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>>182219789
>in the same boat
>every primeval/grizz i've ever met had sub 300 hours and logged in once a month at most
it's not fair

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>>182219538
[email protected]

>>182220218
I don't remember a lot from my childhood anon. Try spongebob quotes and maybe i'll remember them

Why did valve remove the phlog heal

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>>182219538
GRAMT "PNOY" VINSHINT

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>>182219538
[email protected]

>>182220652
ow jesus christ

>>182220604
because it allowed players to survive situations where they reasonably should not have

>>182220218
I've seen this episode once and it was ages ago, back in like elementary or something and I still remember exactly what you're talking about.

why is the phlog so retarded

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>>182219538
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

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>>182219538
Get good, get LMAObox! Get good, get LMAObox! LMAObox #1 TF2 Hacks

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>>182219538
im in.............................

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>>182219538
xXdankmemerXx

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okay, i had a good match. our team did well and had good composition. i got to frag and i got a few dominations. the match even went back and forth a little. i can sleep easy now.
good night /tf2g/.

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>>182219538
NUT (but in those big ass block letters)

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>>182219538
highlander>sixes

>>182166269
BFB

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>>182221503
Going to bed soon. Need profile pic. 8, 5, or 9 gets it.

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>>182221663

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>>182219538
>>182221663
you retard in ment when you do it in those big blocky letters but whatever it works, in an ironic way

>>182221663
>>182221738
>>182221765
>>182221663
>>182221738
>>182221765
plz choose the hotdog it fits better you know this right hahahahhahahhahahhh plz choose hot sog plz

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>>182221883
Sorry man, a roll's a roll. A man's gotta do what's right, not what's best.

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>>182222023
aaaaaaaaaaAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

>just emptied my first valve server as a sniper on frontier
>37 kills on my rifle alone
>about 20 more from spies trying to stab
improving feels good