/scg/edg/ Star Elite: Citizen Dangerous General #157

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why can't Elite: Dangerous just be a good game?

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>>174804365
we all know the answer

>>174804365
Because Braben is a dad stuck in his glory days, the late 80s. That really is the difference between Fdev and CIG, Braben is a Dad, Chris is a manchild. Manchildren want fun games, dads want a feeling satisfaction knowing they have worked honestly for everything they have.

>>174804271
Finally, a real general!

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I still want one, has there been any further news on it since this concept?

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Also this. When do we get another ~$60 ship.

I'm going to sage this thread out of principle because of OP samefagging to bump it.

Instead of admitting he made a new thread after someone else did, he instead aims to bump this one so the real thread gets deleted.

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>>174805583
Nowadays someone should remake that image with struts though.

>>174805641
Fuck off. The alternate general is unsearchable, and there're two ssg out there you faggot.

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>>174805641
You did not make a real thread, you made an overly broad, unfocused non-general, which lacked even proper search tags to be found by someone looking for /scg/ or /edg/. Additionally, the general has repeatedly rejected the idea of adding more titles. We don't need them to stay alive and they dilute conversation. Go talk about KSP in /KSPG/ go talk about your top down Non-sim vaguely space set shit wherever it belongs.

Also I am not samefagging, I am bumping with images, but at no point am I replying to myself.

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>>174805876
It's struttyness index is about the same as the BUcc DESU senpai.

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>>174806025

>>174805641
Not the same thread. Other one is some stupid mix of games

>>174806638
Most of those assets look completely new to me.

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>>174807783
What the fuck

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>>174806025
>kspg
>existing

Good joke anon

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ELE soon, guys.

>>174809347
what's ele?

so the audio logs talk about the generation ships being used to mark and seed terraformable worlds?

>thargoids undercover hire generation ships to scope out and seed prospective home worlds
>kill their crews so nothing is revealed
>suddenly thargoids "pop up" as a separate faction occupying a portion of space, like a new bubble
>nothing changes except sometimes you fight ayy lmaos while grinding as usual

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>>174810916
Doctor Smart's supposed Extinction Level Event that's gonna kill CIG. It's gonna happen any day now since October 2015.

>>174811667
Maybe we can get access to alien ships somehow. Although I bet the HUD will still be the same even in a Thargoid ship.

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are mantis ballistic gats the spicy new meme or something. Seems like every match I play lately is all BRRRT.

Also, anyone who thinks BRRRRT spam take more skill than missiles is a moron.

>>174811667
>nothing changes
The logic is airtight. I can't see any flaws.

is elite good yet? i dropped it before horizons

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>>174813531
No, Elite will never be good until Braben and Fdev are no longer in charge. they are actively making the game shit to appease their core playerbase, which is dads.

>>174809347
>>174812618
You just know that he's gonna show up at the LA office some day with nothing but socks boxers, some liquor and a non functional gun of his own design. Like there no way that crazy shitter doesn't end up getting committed.

What is D.Smart was actually an inside job to discredit anyone who criticizes Chris-t/Sandibones/The Human Gravity Well?

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>>174806025
Reminder that the Retaliator will never been good unless they get rid of the now pointless tilt-engine assembly

>>174816804
Of the various things wrong with the Tally, this is the most meaningless.

Are pulse lasers still generic go-to weapon in Elite?

Are railguns better?

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>>174817402
I know what that guy's talking about, though. You can go into the fragility of the ship, the interior layout making the escape pods nigh-impossible for crew to reach in an emergency, the lack of proper front mounted, pilot controlled weapons, but the engine placement of the tilt-engines means if a ship comes from any angle towards the bottom the Retaliator cannot retaliate.

It's a major fucking problem.

So Banu is a protectorate, but whose protectorate is it?

When does Sandi get kicked out of CIG?

>>174819142
Delete this. Right now.

>>174812915
how painfully new are you

>>174819426

Implying Chris wouldn't be the one leaving by court order

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>>174820412
Fuck off

>>174819426
>bullying sandi

>>174820363
>E.L.E. legal action shitpost

Hi, goons.

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What's this?

>>174821165
Origin 600.

>>174821165
Origin 800

>>174820412
>STAR-322N-CGT7
Go away STLYoungblood

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>>174821165
I suspect a bike for Origin
OR the 300i redesign, it's supposed to be shown sometime around

>>174820412
>>174821564
It's probably some troll posting his code to make him look bad. Why would that due, who has thousands of viewers fish here. He's on of the few youtubers I can actually stand and most of his videos are at least modestly informative and grounded in reality.

>>174821165
>>174821419
>>174821428
>>174821747
Origin 600, a Long awaited Freelancer/Constellation competitor from the one and own space lexus manufacturer, expect it to have fair to middlin stats, needless flashyness and a general sense of desperate compensation.

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>>174821747
>hrst electron beam

BEAM WEAPONS CONFIRMED
GET HYPE

>>174822201
go away SHITYoungBlood

>>174822201
kys yungblodclot

i'm about to get into starlancer, what am i in for?

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>>174826371
Comfy. Race the based German guy to the top of the leaderboard.

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>>174826371
Space NATO vs Space USSR + MEC.

I know Wing Commander always gets the praise but I adore Starlancer more.

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How many genders are there in Star Citizen?

>>174827602
Furry, femboy, and xeno

>>174827862
don't take the bait

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>>174804365

Hey /edg/.
Are there any console commands for singleplayer?
I kinda just want to fuck arround in the biggest ship and don't have time to grind online.

>>174829000
ed is online only

get scammed

>>174829104
>online only
I thought it had solomode or whatever?

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>>174829000
>>174829104
>>174829202

E:D could have been a great single player game or a mediocre F2P MMO but FDev fucked both up.

>>174829202
that's just a mode for dads/carebares to avoid nonconsensual pvp .

solo still requires online access

>>174829395
Wtf why?
I thought this worked like gtav or something.
Structured online but moddable solo.

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>>174829693
You thought wrong. All connections still go through a number of servers, so if you don't have internet connection, you're not getting new missions or anything. I don't remember the name of the servers, they all have pretentious bullshit names like "ADJUDICATOR" and shit.

>>174829693
>Structured online but moddable solo.
can't imagine what would have lead you to believe that.

it's pretty stupid but that's precisely why it isn't exactly a secret; any basic google search will lead you to hundreds of people bitching about it.

ya scammed yourself

>>174829693

That's what they literally promised during the kickstarter, and then they went back on it for the final release.

Hey, I just got Elite Dangerous but I can't find the community/guilds menu, how do I join the /vg/ guild/fleet/corp/whatever?

If you could mod the game what would you want in it?

>>174831412
>>174829000

I know you're baiting but pls delet. This actually hurts me because I originally wanted this to be a deep singleplayer game and I've been begging for corp support since the fucking game came out.

>>174831469
gameplay

>>174831821
More grinding? Got it.

>>174831767
Oh anon, the baiting is just a coping mechanism, it helps us move to the stage of acceptance and from there, hatred and revenge.

It also prepares us for the future failures of Starcitizen whenever that is released.

>>174831469
I'm guessing you're talking about ED? All the various gameplay activities that are missing. I actually fucking miss escort missions thanks to ED. Why are there no defensive missions? Why are there are no missions in which you need to prevent asteroids from raining down onto a planet? Remember the original trailer from ED, where three sidewinders get a call to help out a Federation capital ship? Why isn't there more shit like that?

Then the game is missing POIs and well developed instances. Why is every instance revolve around a single, shitty point of interest sitting in empty space? I go to a station and that's all there is there. I go to an asteroid field and that's all there is, asteroids. I go to an outpost and lo and behold, only asteroids. Frontier should have given up on the HD remake of Frontier Elite, broken down and added some shit to see and interact with.

Is there any way to get LTI on new ship purchases right now? I haven't followed the system at all. I bought the 30$ Aurora package pre-2.0 and haven't really touched or followed the game much. Thinking of getting a Cutlass.

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>>174800097
>ded
starsector cucks BTFO

>>174832856
LTI only comes with concept sales now, which is when you buy a ship (jpg) within the first week or so of its unveiling.

You can also CCU (cross-chasis upgrade) from one ship to a more expensive one while still retaining LTI and any other perks from the old ship. Whenever there's a new cheap concept sale, it's a common practice for people to buy a bunch of them so that they can later be used as "LTI tokens".

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>>174832739
You know it actually boggles my mind that ED doesn't even have a "defend this object from hostile npc waves" type mission.

Braben and Sammarco need to be forced to play Colony Wars trilogy through and through if they want to sell a lot of those gimp suit packs.

Who am I kidding tho, this game is already on minimally viable life support.

>>174832856
>>174833365
Adding to that, if your Aurora came with LTI then you can simply CCU it to a Cutlass and keep the lifetime insurance.

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The Banu Defender was a mistake.

When can the dads commit suicide due to their midlife crises or die of old age so we can get a good game? Or just fucking remove solo/private play, if dads are too spooked to fight back in pvp just stay in high sec baby space and have the devs implement AI police like in EVE.

>>174832856
Check r/starcitizen_trades, stuff is usually sold marked up obviously but it's a greymarket for purchasing stuff that isn't normally available.

>>174835103
I should say better AI space police, as in they just warp in and delete attackers in high sec.

>>174834432
its all just a ploy to make the upcoming 600 seem better than it is.

>>174834432
>The Banu Defender was a mistake.
The fucking view is a mistake.

>>174804574
As I understand it, this is one time where it isn't Sandro's fault. Sandro's actually responsible for the original design where everyone got full and equal payouts and was also responsible for buffing wing bounty/bond payouts so everyone gets full share instead of a split.

From what has come out of the debacle so far it seems that it was actually an edict directly from Braben to reduce the payouts to insulting levels so that people couldn't skip through the precious new player experience (that you can already skip by following cops around for half an hour). He unfortunately still doesn't seem to actually understand how people other than him play Elite and a lot of the seemingly strange decisions make more sense when you consider that Braben intends Elite to be played by just drifting from station to station following the missions and only really owning one ship and upgrading it as you go.

Never done mining before. I'm trying to mine Engi mats and I noticed I keep those on death, which is unexpectedly cool. Do I need to equip the refinery at all if I'm just doing mats?

Does my cargo hold just get emptier with less limpets since there is no ore to go back? Do I need prospector still just for mats?

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People say Elite: Dangerous is like Euro Truck Simulator in space. But people also say ETS is fun and a good game, and E:D is garbage.
I like ETS, will I like E:D?

Also, is Horizon Season Pass required for me to be disappointed in Elite? Or would that be an additional waste of money?

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>>174804574
>feeling satisfaction knowing they have worked honestly for everything they have.

A new age dawns with Trump in the White House. Honesty, Integrity, Industry, all of these are dead virtues. Just lie until you get enough useful idiots with disposable income to give you a bunch of money and walk away after you fail to deliver a successful product. IM LOOKING AT YOU TIM SCHAFER!

>>174839384
Raw micromaterials don't require a refinery, but limpets are pretty stupid robots so I'm not sure what they'd do if you have lots of ore floating around and no refinery.

>Does my cargo hold just get emptier with less limpets

Limpets get used up and free up cargo space in the process, yes. Prospectors are not necessary however they double the resources you can get out of a single asteroid.

>>174839396
It's going to feel different than ETS2. Some missions in E:D are just conveying goods from point A to point B and some are shit or have shit payouts. Horizons is more for people who reach end game so do not get it. E:D doesn't feel comfy either since you're in space and space is fucking nothing with no one. It probably won't be worth it for years by now. And no custom radio in E:D.

>>174839027

>new player experience

The hot new buzzword that every retard on the forums and plebbit likes to use. I wasn't doing anything different from when I started to where I am now. I'm still roaming RES, still occasionally exploring. The only difference is that back then I was ignorant of how shallow the game is, and I've long since stopped doing missions because they're worthless unless you want to RP with the BGS.

>>174839969
fuck. Thanks.

Somebody needs to create and maintain IsEliteDangerousGoodYet.com so I won't have to ask the same questions every 6 months.

>>174839396
Can't deliver to planet surfaces, be space bus driver, carry shortrange fighters or drive an actual land vehicle around without Horizons. Also it's pay2win because of Engineers. Not having engineer upgrades is gimping yourself.

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>>174840370

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>>174840276
To be fair if someone bought into an early access game and complained about lack of a "new player experience" they're the idiot. I can only imagine what release day is going to look like for new players when everyone who was playing through alpha and beta shut them the fuck down even after they play through CIGs tutorial? Pic related.

>>174839969
>tfw I unironically enjoy cruising through space since I find it to be relaxing and I enjoy approaching distant planets and seeing them get larger
Must be the 'tism.

>>174839969
>E:D doesn't feel comfy either since you're in space and space is fucking nothing with no one.

Now I've got a lot of grievances about E:D but atmosphere is not one of them. Space is pretty and FDev don't pay their sound team enough.

>>174840276
They got a point tho. This game isnt normie friendly even from the moment you go into the store to buy a package for the first time.

>>174839027
Honestly, I could probably like Elite as a casual play-when-you're-bored type game except no game should ever revolve around staring at a loading screen as 90% of the gameplay. Whose fucking idea was this? It's not even about travel through space anymore, it's literally "my ship can make 25-30ly per loading screen." This is fucking insane. It's like some weird psychology experiment.

>>174840769

That shouldn't matter though, atleast from the point of "multicrew takes away the next player experience." Yeah the game is somewhat confusing when you start, but getting in someone's ship to help you out isn't going to change that unless they teach the game to you. The point is that what you do doesn't change, just in what ship you do it in.

>people claiming elite isn't comfy

Elite may not be a lot of things, but it is without a doubt comfy as fuck.

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>>174840767
>FDev don't pay their sound team enough.
>mfw hitting the boost in a Viper Mk4 for the first time

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>>174840767
>>174841469

this
sound and visuals are something FDev did well

not that it excuses them though, just giving credit where it's due
>mfw spirograph nebula gave me some good freelancer vibes

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>out fucking about exploring
>find a distress beacon, im like 1k ly away
>drop in
>its a keelback being attacked by two Vipers
>okay Ill help you
>kill both vipers, take a beating doing it though
>keelback is still screaming for help
>cant even find him on my sensors, no idea where he went
>keeps spamming comms for help until i say fuck it and jump away

I am le comfy

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>>174842768
I like this picture better.

>>174842768
this,the only good thing about this new patch is new sounds and stations

>>174842768
>Spooky ghost noises whenever I boost in my Gutamaya ship
>Asp sounds like a spitfire taxiing down a runway
>Orca has a warning beep for passangers before the boost triggers

>>174842768
>when the thrusters rattle just right

>>174844395
>Spooky ghost noises whenever I boost in my Gutamaya ship

The OG Eagle's boost noise is literally the howling spirits of the damned

https://youtu.be/pWJpOAsoZPA?t=47

>>174826371
The Ion cannon is targeting us GET OUT OF IT'S RANGE!!!!

>Torpedos launched, CLEAR THE AREA!

>>174843501
Yeah but it's a different experience compared to traffic in ETS2. You get on a major highway and you're surrounded by cars and shit. The only time you see a large fleet is in conflict zones.

>>174822712
>ang

>>174847745
The traffic in ETS2 doesn't try to run you off the road and shoot you, either.

>captcha: select all vehicles
>it's a fucking freeway and every box is full of car
>doesn't believe you and tells you to try again

>>174843667
He probably had Cobras or Asps on him once you slagged the Vipers. Distress beacons just escalate in waves until they're throwing Anacondas at you forever. You can't actually save the victim.

>>174849990
>incredible sex apparatus
>still using a shitty vr solution
why bother

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>>174839621
I work honestly for moneyto buy Jpeg spaceships IRL. I work honestly to feed myself and pay my rent. When I play a game I want to be rewarded for being clever or devious or aggressive or observant or opportunistic. Games should not seek to punish those who are disproportionately effective, particularly in a non competitive setting. If I find a better way to do something, that better way should be come the new standard because its better, not get nerfed because it out performs "approved" methods. Breaking rules and finding shortcuts to escape the grind and cut in line in the hierarchy of wealth and power is precisely the adventurous mindset and feeling I think most gamers play for. Wanting game play to consist of more tedious but dependable and unobjectionable work is the very definition of being a Dad.

In the real world actions have severe consequences, you don't be a pirate/bandit/highwayman IRL because you'll be killed, but everyone thinks about it. Vidya is the lower consequence world where you can be that guy and if you come up short you just lose a game rather than you know, being imprisoned or killed.

Is smuggling in ED actually bloody worth it yet?

I was playing before the expansion and by the time you found a illegal product worth selling and smuggled it into a station you could have made 10x more just doing a generic trade run.

You would think through basic fucking logic you would realize more risk = more reward yet smuggling was worthless.

>>174837867
The whole design is a mistake

>Escort ship with weak weapons but great shields and no armor
Just, what the fuck?

Escort ships are overwhelmingly powerful firefighters typically designed for extremely long distances, the whole point of them is to be exceptionally good at killing hostiles and being self sufficient enough to maintain pace with whatever they are protecting. Who the hell is going to want an expensive, tanky but weak ship to protect their MM when stuff like Bucc's exist?

>>174853652
you used to smuggle slaves,now you smuggle criminal tourists

>>174854301
Fuck, no drug smuggling?

Does it at least pay better than normal trading?

>>174854357
drug smuggling pays shit

if you go qiunce>jacques high,the passangers mission there are really short

>>174854582
Well that is just disappointing.

>/scg/ /edg/ general

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>>174854301
People have a hard time handling complex issues that society shun as a taboo, so most companies will avoid the topic entirely over getting overly negative public relations.

>>174834432
It may not be popular, but to make the universe more diverse it had to be done, also its the stepping stone to other Banu ships.

>tfw I sometimes feel bad hunting down and killing deserters
Maybe I'll just stick with killing pirates and bounty targets.

>>174854694
what are you talking?slave smuggling just doesn't pay as much as criminals with a penchent for tourism

>>174805583
Prices are always going up, and no you are not getting a new poverty ship.

To Chris R. the ideal poverty ship is the Aurora, and everything about that ship you are showing in that picture is what the Aurora can already do.

However you can expect a price creep on the Aurora here shortly since they currently reworking it visually. NEETs and welfare pilots will rejoice.

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3.0 until end of June, and knowing CIG will not be able to hold to, tons of great content has allegedly said to come, but more than likely will be bug ridden.

Prices of ships are going up when nothing new has been released to even show worth of the price hikes, let alone how they will be in the PU.

Warbond is a fancy roleplaying way of saying we want more money, but will give a slight reduction of price if you gives us new money on already over priced ships.

CIG is in bed with SC twitch streamers showing off their referral code as priority.

Cant wait to see how they botch GamesCon here in just a little bit.

What is the best type of input device for flying in SC? Is a HOTAS fine or is there something more ideal?

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>>174861917
Atlas Defense Industries

Recommends this for all new pilots.

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>>174840370
>>174840430

>>174843501
Speaking of freelancer. I've wanted to play it again but I can't find a copy of it. Why doesn't gog or steam have it?

fuck the SC vat prices...

>>174863625
buy from americans/russians
on reddit

>>174864068
thats a pretty good way to get scammed

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>>174863625

There is no reason for it. It is internet spaceships. I agree fuck VAT.

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how will exploration work in SC? will the game generate some new instances to explore kinda like EvE or is it all hand made and people will find everything 2 weeks after release?

>>174864181
so buy from someone trustworthy?

>>174863625
/r/Starcitizen_trades/

>>174857414
>that pic

What happened with Renegade Squadron. I remember reading their org page because they sounded like a decent PvP group, but after reading their forum posts, they came off as huge moralfags waiting to get skullfucked.

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>>174864520
>it
Exploration is lacking right now, hopefully they will have quiet a bit to explore, but unknown how good the random quest generator will work to keep everyone entertained and happy

>>174835103
There already is AI space police. They're just shit.

>take starsector/M&B
>make it a space game
Why is this so hard for developers? Why do they always try to turn their sandbox games into themeparks?

>>174864520
If they are smart, they will do exploration like EvE. Extremely high risk, high reward, very specialized only craft.

But there is no way they will do that.

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>>174864981
They were caught using lag switches or using shill accounts to inflate numbers in team or deathmatch based arena. They claim anyone who says otherwise is salty.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWQbS0gW26k

Templeman_N runs the joint, but he did better in EVE than SC and Malogos has been cheating for a while. Malogos used to open admit that he would play with friends that would use early Cryengine cheats in SC back in the TacticalAdvance days. Malogos aka Michael L. is a network engineer, he uses data sniffing tools to make his website starcitizendb, but he is familiar with how to lag out and cause massive damage and then turns off the lag switch where he goes back at it.

He is not as good as he says he is, just a cheater. Nothing more nothing less.

>>174864981
A group of people that think they're hot shit because they enter SB as a full teamstack using exclusively FOTM weapons/ships and surprise surprise, generally win.

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>>174865637
>>174865753
I see, so they're basically lack real skill and rely on cheats and exploits. I had a feeling they were full of shit. Thanks.

>>174865834
I don't know about what that anon was saying, but anyone that joins as a full team in SB and has the 3 braincells required to say "Kill this nigger first" is going to win that match.

Theres basically nothing you can do to combat that as a group of people with no comms.

>>174865916
True, but why use lag switches and data sniffing tools?

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>>174865997
Lag switching is when you interrupt the connection between you and the server, CIG however has a longtime out when you lag switch, I do it all the time, but only climb the ladder board a little bit.

Sniffing tools are good to read the data states as well as xml reading to see numbers of DPS, HP, etc etc and formulate it into an excel sheet.

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>>174866506

What is CIG doing about such cheats?

Pic somewhat related

>>174805309
It doesn't have a hand guard so it is not fit for combat.

>>174867989
wat

>>174805583
The closest thing we'll see to another 60 dollar ship is the Xi'an space bike or the carrack's snub. Even the 300i will probably get bumped up to 70 after the rework. If cig did make the ship in your image they'd charge 120 or more for it.

>>174864207
even if there was a reason it's CIG who should take the hit.
Vat and taxes should be included in the price having it cost the same everywhere just giving CIG less profit from certain regions.

Considering the production cost of one jpeg vs two jpegs is literally no difference.

>>174868697
Not like its standard practice for anyone in the entire industry to do that

>>174868697
>CIG should take the hit

That's never going to happen
Never ever

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>>174869115

Derek Smart would like a word with you.

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will other players be able to look over our shoulders and see our mobiglas screens? and if so, mobiglas will certainly have spectrum integration and a browser.

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You may not like it, but this is what peak design looks like

>>174816804
If i made a list of problems the retaliator has... Well, the engines would be on the list because I think they're ugly, but still it would be rather low on the list

>>174871006
you kind can already

>>174871889
how many hours of paint is this

Holy fuck colonia is far,i'ts gonna take days to get there

>>174865834
RS members also used to disrupt Evocati testing by attacking people in Crusader on sight, even though they were trying to reproduce bugs. Their reasoning was 'b-but you'll have to defend yourself in the final game as well :^)'. The 'no PvP unless specifically asked to' rule was introduced because of them.

>>174872183
Some dude on Reddit named radiantsoul that bitches about the shit view on CIGs ships. His concepts about view and using screen space are sound but he goes on and on about it in autistic ways because he seems to think CIG and the people just don't know any better and would totally agree with him if he just explains it for the 30th time with really fancy visual aids.

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>>174873475
>because he seems to think CIG and the people just don't know any better

Right, because CIG has really been demonstrating that they're aware of these problems, right?

Oh wait, that ship isn't 3 years old, its the latest concept ship that should have learnt the lessons of dozens of other ships people complain about the struts and visibility of.

if I have the basic hangar and ccu to a big ship, that means I cant use it when it comes out?

>>174874085
I got told by cs that if you upgrade, you don't get the hangar. I upgraded like a hornet to a reclaimer or something, and sent them a message. I didn't realize I already had the industrial hangar but their reply said that upgrading doesn't provide it.

>>174874085
CCUing also upgrades the hangar, even though it doesn't say so. At least it did last time I checked.

>>174873180
I don't get it, its not like there is some faction that does this to their ships that you're emulating.

>>174873180
>Haha! We made DLC for pirates and then make piracy unviable!
>Haha!
Fucking dads

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>>174872492
2k down
40k to go

>>174871006
I think turbulent wont be able to make a true web-based spectrum integration, but rather a clone of sorts

>>174875495
Their shit is fucked. The whole game is fucked.

Nothing new to play, outdated build, fuck Cloud Imperium Games, rather get a refund then put up with this shit.

Considering the grey market at this rate to sell my shit.

So which setting has the more powerful ships? SC or ED?

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>renegades uses the fotm ships to climb the ac ladder
>renegades uses cheats to further climb the ac ladder

In other words, AC is P2W with cheaters. Great game, guys!

>>174876112
Line of Defense

>>174876358
no game is free from cheaters
>p2w
you can earn those ships

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wllc5gSc-N8

What whats worse, did you see what they're standing on?

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>>174876610
>it-it's okay, all games have cheaters!
Game's not even fucking playable and it already has cheaters.

>>174876642
It maybe more clear to see here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2exu65Jekc

>>174876665
as a matter of fact it is playable

>>174876747
Are... are those... hexagons anon?

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>>174876610
>lel pay-for-convenience

Whatever you say, Ben.

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>>174876761
[lagswitching intensifies]

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>>174877040
>>174877271
prove me wrong derek

>>174876665
>people actively searching for exploits in an alpha build is bad for the game
really makes you [concern]

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>>174877558
>literal proof in the past and present right here in the thread
>lel prove me wrong derek

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>>174877723

>>174805583
this crap is overdesigned

is there a vg org?

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>>174878179
Yes

>>174876112
ED simply because their large ships can literally fly circles around SC's.

>>174821165
BMW i8

>>174840370
why are they even fucking doing this

Is fer-de-lance a logical upgrade from vulture?

>>174880383
animators pay needs to be justified

>>174881609
Yes.

>>174881609
FDL is logical upgrade to corvette lul

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Some basic stuff in the schedule is only coming out near December, so the patches that I want to play, like 4.0 are at least 18 months away. There's hardly any reason to be in these threads. Shouldn't we just let them die?

>>174805583
i know that thing is just a meme project slapped together with aurora Assets but i want it to be a thing

easiest $50-60 "it's an avenger alternative" aurora upgrade they'd sell

>>174882080
>the thread should die because the content I personally want in the game isn't going to be in for a long time

>18 months
you poor naive child.

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>>174840370

>>174876112
Most ED ships are huge, faster and virtually indestructible compared to SC ships

SPACE BUMP!

>>174887893
Just let it go.

>>174874278
>not using the kit to create mad max in space

So the Reclaimer gonna be hangar ready this year?

>>174882469
>you poor naive child
Only some of the missions for 3.0 are scheduled for development in December. Half or most of the content for 3.0 has been shelved until further patches. 3.0 will be delayed by a total of like 7 months (not including further delays).

Let's look at the patches AFTER the gimped stuff that is another 3 months away:

3.1
3.2
3.3
4.0

Do you honestly think they are just around the corner?

>>174888415
They don't do 'hangar ready' any more. It gets in when it's flyable.

>>174888640
You forgot the tripcode comrade.

>>174888640
I was implying it's going to be way longer than 18 months, retard.

>>174889062
>i'm a goon for being pessimistic
>>174889073
>i'm a child for being optimistic

>>174889245
Correct.

>>174888415
it's not a matter of if it's ready, it's a matter of when 3.0 allows anything bigger than a starfarer to exist in a server without destroying the the known universe and collapsing all of reality into a singular infinitely dense particle of matter

>>174889245
Yep.

>Not being a cautious skeptic
>2017

>>174888640
Remember that 4.0 was supposed to be out by the end of 2017/early 2018.

At this rate, we'll probably see 3.0 sometime this summer, but we'd be damn lucky to see 3.1 before the end of the year.we might get a 3.0.2 before December.

4.0 in 18 months would be an act of god.

>>174891710
patch numbers are meaningless and you should stop attaching value to them

man, holome is cool but i wish i could get up and even just walk in the cockpit

>>174892701
Patch numbers are meaningful as a shorthand for talking about groups of features.

Also, semantic version numbers are extremely useful and CIG generally sticks to them.

They aren't an end-all be-all, but that doesn't make them useless. The world is not a dichotomy.

>>174892956
>Patch numbers are meaningful as a shorthand for talking about groups of features.

ah yes, like "the stanton system" and "mining" in 3.0

>>174893757

Goodbye, goon.

>>174893757
>things changed so nothing is meaningful at all
There you go again being retarded.

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>>174832739
The answer to all your "why" is "because those can be procedurally generated and balanced* easily"
*by balanced I mean nerfed to cheaply increase the progression

>>174854242
You are making a strawman and your logic is flawed.

Nothing say the Banu Def won't be long range and it only need to be fast enough to follow heavier ship which is a given. Looking at its stats it is clearly fielding big guns, S3 gimballed big guns. It's almost cheating.
https://www.robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/15862-Banu-Defender

Shields will clearly be the most important for an escort fighter in the universe of Star Citizen, even if you launched a stealth attack you couldn't cripple it unless your manage to pierce the shield, and since shield regenerate you can't easily cripple it and follow the cargo.
If it survive the battle it will go back to peak condition, ready to continue the escort.

At the opposite the Buccanner would be the worst escort fighter ever, a stealth attack would cripple it easily and most of its weapon are missiles. Once spent it lose all its punch and must flee. Once crippled it won't be capable of escorting anything or following the cargo ship using you as a meatshield while it flee.

Know my word to be truth and accept that you were utterly wrong.
Dumbass.

>>174805583

More cheap ships are a losing proposition because once the game goes live, you'll see people grinding past the starter ships in short order. At that point you'll have more powerful and more specialized ships that people branch into, and THOSE are the ships that you want broad diversity within.

I do want to see an advanced single or dual player mission-runner ship. What we call "starter ships" right now. More ships like the Aurora and Reliant, perhaps. I think the 300 series could be like that, or the Banu Defender if they tweak it a bit. A one or two man long-range liveaboard ship that can defend itself and holds a small amount of cargo. A ship that can be tweaked and modified heavily so that you have an end-game single player ship for people who just want to fly around and go on adventures.

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>>174894423
>S3 gimballed
No.

>Buccaneer
>most of its weapons are missiles
>1 S4, 2 S3, 2 S3 hardpoints with 2 S3 missiles is "mostly missiles"

>>174894460
>A one or two man long-range liveaboard ship that can defend itself and holds a small amount of cargo.
So, a Freelancer Lite

Yeah, sounds like something the game should have.

Then again, I imagine something like the Freelancer won't be TOO hard to save up for and I expect a lot of people to be flying something in that range.

I expect the end-game for a "solo" player, that is the biggest ship a player not in an org of some kind, would be able to afford is something like a Constellation, or maybe a Caterpillar or Starfarer.

>>174894696
That was supposed to be "1 S4, 2 S3, 2 S1".

>>174812618

Smart got refuted once and for all and year and a half ago when the baby PU came out. Right up to that point, it seemed possible that there wouldn't be anything to play other than AC and wandering around your hangar. Dark days of the Star Marine debacle, and it seemed like maybe smart was right and the game was a huge con game on the edge of falling apart. He even had those alleged former employees he'd shopped around to the gaming media.

At this point, it's pretty clear we'll get something quite good. Maybe not QUITE so good as CR promises (no surprise) but "not as good as it could have been" or too late is a very far cry from the crash and burn that DS promised.

It's telling that most fans don't even bother making fun of him anymore.

The gaming press hates Star Citizen. probably due to the fact that it doesn't need to advertise or suck their dicks via media relations PR. But even they are starting to avoid trolling fans. Post-gg credibility issues, I guess, and we can THANK ds for that.

>>174894967
Nah, gaming press hates Star Citizen because they're easy to attack. Constant delays, broken promises from Chris every other week, shit like that. It's not really a conspiracy, it's just that negative headlines get clicks. Especially after shit like No Man's Sky, people love drama.

It's true that CIG's been getting picked on a little less, though. Possibly do to credibility issues, but I think a good portion of it is that CIG is actually showing some results at this point. Chris still makes promises that don't pan out, but it's hard to paint SC as a giant scam when the company is actually putting out content and showing what they're working on in detail every week, even if the pace is slower than a lot might like.

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>>174864520
What was said :
- Discovered jump point will not instantly become common knowledge, CiG will be controlling when it is, meanwhile you'll be making money from exploring it even if other players did.
- The 'first ever' discovery will however have a bonus
- Jump point will fluctuate and need regular scan update.
- CiG will periodically add new systems, even bot will be discovering them.

What you cant expect :
- quests generated exploration
- automatic generation/filling of wreck, station and ruins.
- Instancing will be used to isolate you in empty system far from help and non-consensual griefing

Too many dads here don't understand that a game don't need to be as boring as reality. Making game hard again don't mean making them shit as time goes.

>>174895445
Dads and carebears need to understand that high-sec space exists and that no one is forcing them to go into low-/null-sec space.

>>174819426

Um... never? Sandi is arguably more valuable to the company than CR.

Yeah it wasn't ethical to conceal that she was married to Chris, but even SC's biggest haters have to admit that it's the best marketed PC game in history. In fact, most of the critiques of the game and company boil down to it getting better marketing than it deserves.

Thanks to their sharp marketing, they didn't even have to dilute the company's ownership with venture capital, either. So the current leadership team answers to nobody but the new backers who bring in most of the cash flow.

I know she has no formal marketing education, but that's a plus IMO. Hell, university business programs are starting to cite SC as a case study in innovative marketing strategy and execution.

>>174895728
What exactly did Sandi do?

>>174893848
>things change like I said they can and do change so "nothing" is meaningful, even though that was never claimed

tell me more

>>174821747

The 300i redesign needs to be a priority once the cutlass is done. It's really quite embarrassing compared to the other ships out there. When the fucking Mustang Beta is a sweeter ride in terms of utility and luxury than the 300, you know there's a problem.

>>174895830
(You)

>>174894696
>the """"problem"""" with the current specs page is that it actually reflects the important capability of a ship (max hardpoint size) not the meaningless stock loadout

Thanks Matt, you fucking dummy

>>174895904
300i sucks dick and will always suck dick

>>174829202

That was cancelled like three years ago. Braben's memo was so vaguely worded in marketing speak that it probably pissed people off even more than if he'd just written "online only now, fuck you".

It's a good game. We used to argue about which would be better, ED or SC, but as it's turned out, you just play ED for now until SC comes out. Which will still be several years. If you played ED since release you'll have had the better part of a decade behind you by the time SC is done.

Mission gameplay is about early 90s tier in terms of missions and stuff. At its core, it's a very conventional game that looks very pretty. SC is pushing the envelope, but it's taking forever.

>>174833365

I really really really should have bought a few dragonflies.

>>174896487
Why do you think the Argo was called an LTI token

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>>174894696
I did said the gimballed S3 felt like cheat, no wonder they'll change it. In any case this is looking to be a strong fighter.

No excuse for the Buccanner, but it's still a fragile mook unsuited for escort duty. All it can do is attack strong, hope to win, or flee against superior Banu Defender, or anything else.

>>174834432

I like the concept. A liveaboard ship that you can run missions in and can actually do well in a dogfight. A gun-heavy fast/manueverable ship that holds a little cargo* but doesn't have more than shields for defense. And I like the fluff about craftsmanship and multiracial technology. And, hell, the banu as well.

The problems come from the ship model. Pretty much ALL come from the ship model. The crab design is unoriginal-- yes I like that it has a vanduul inspiration (Banu decide they need a fighter, so who makes good fighters that they can base their own design on?), but it also copies like a million other sci fi ships that look almost identical. The arms block LOS-- some tweaks would reduce but will never eliminate the huge visibility problems. The arms also seem guaranteed to be lopped off in a firefight, especially given the thin armor. Thus making the ship very easy to mission-kill. The arms also seem to serve little or no in-game purpose. This is supposed to be all "alien tech is strange" plus "rule of cool" plus original but it's neither cool nor makes even bad sense nor has any in-game rationale other than the artist found a few old games he's copying.

I'm OK with side-by-side crew pods. I think you'd get used to them pretty quickly.

It's also a ship that given the big loadout seems destined to get a size increase. It just does too much for its size.

I really want to like this design. If they can fix the model, I'd be all over this ship. Even the hard-core buy-everything fanboys are saying to pass on this. And if it doesn't sell, why would designers prioritize it later to make it competitive?

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>>174894967
>>174895227

>>174897213
Thanks for the blogpost

>>174854242

As announced, the defender will have excellent weapons.

Great shields/no armor worries me, but remember those are "reinforced shields" that the terrigens or whateverthefucktheyrecalled used. So presumably there's a mechanic that you don't get raped by ballistics. If there isn't, then yeah it'll be a shit ship.

>Escort ships are overwhelmingly powerful firefighters

There are many kinds of fighter escorts. You're just saying that an escort has to be good at everything plus long range. You could say that about any fighter concept. Interceptor? Overhwhelmingly powerful firefighter! Pirate ship? Needs to be an overwhelmingly powerful! Attack ship? Overwhelmingly powerful!

Engineering involves tradeoffs and everyone tries to be as good in every category as possible. Given that you can't be best at everything, you try to emphasize the traits that your mission concept demands.

So IMO it's viable to focus on firepower/maneuver. The enemy has to approach the ships you're protecting to be a threat-- being fast might even tempt you to let yourself be drawn away from your formation on a pursuit. You then have to have weapons enough to force him to break off an attack run, and maneuverability enough to keep all that fire on him. Speed is nice if you can get it, but don't absolutely need speed beyond the ability to keep up with the ships you're escorting. The Defender's maneuverability is a defense as well. You don't need to be super tanky because you're outmaneuvering incoming fire.

Long range and sleeping quarters are nice because most of the escorting job is long hours on CAP waiting for something to happen. Your protectee might not have a hangar to wait in, and if he does you still don't want to be caught spending five minutes scrambling if your fleet is ambushed.

Also you need to be able to see your targets. This should go without saying, but apparently CIG needs to be told.

>>174873475

If a concept sale underperforms due to this issue, then suddenly cockpit visibility will become a priority issue. If it doesn't, then all the bitching is a backburner issue handled on a "when we can spare resources" basis.

The freelancer has this problem, too. It wouldn't take much to fix it (move the pilot's chair up a few feet, make the windows a tad bigger), but it's just not a priority in an alpha game.

>theorycrafting hours

>>174892884
Holo me is pretty gay. There's no options. I can be a skinny guy with short hair who's either black or white. Any suits or makeup that looks interesting are shekel restricted and even they suck.

Everything that has been added in Horizons has been worthless and actually manages to LESSEN the fun in the game somehow.

Every update since release back in 2014 has been unnecessary.

>>174899001
>excellent weapons
It has the same loadout as a Sabre but with worse missiles. It's good, but hardly excellent.
Also, you can bet your ass that a 30m ship won't be maneuverable. Maybe more than a Freelancer/Vanguard, but not enough to keep up with the fighters your attackers are going to pilot.

>>174897404
Let's not confuse weakness with necessary balance.
Its armor is weak because its shield is strong. You can't lop its arms off unless you get through the shield first.

You surely think this is just constructive criticism against one ship but CiG choose the path of least resistance every single fighter would have a forward facing strut-less bubble and only the HUD to remind you what ship you are in.

>crab is unoriginal
I call double standard, impossible ones.
If it was conservative it would still be called unoriginal, if it was more alien if would still be called ridiculous.
Aside I'm betting that the arm will move as you turn, making the LOS clear enough in the direction you are looking at.

>huge visibility problems
Wait until you fly it. I'm betting flying by the HUD nullify all of this. (and it would make stealth fighter an advantage)

>purpose
It's needed for its superior shield technology? For its in-game ambiance?
I would like to point out we are talking about space-fighter with non-aerodynamic wings, visual line of sight and sea-fairing deck. Everything is meant for the rule of cool.
ps : with an arm destroyed it will make for impressive crash landing.

>>174894423
>Nothing say the Banu Def won't be long range

In fact, since CIG says it has sleeping berths for the crew, that suggests that it WILL be long range.

Shields are an issue. The fact that the design is ugly and boring is an issue. Cockpit visibility sure as hell is an issue-- currently IMO makes it unplayable.

IMO they need to revamp the concept art/layout from scratch, but the stats as given make perfect sense for the intended role. Add a little cargo space and you have a cool "tier 2 starter ship" as well, but it's clearly statted as an excellent long range escort fighter as it stands.

>>174897410
Derek Smart is the best viral advertiser in the market. No one else can draw the attention and crowds he does, not since Jack Thompson retired anyways.

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>>174899409
The Sabre won't eternally be a ship that can survive without stealth. It's shield won't be as good and the missile will be a trade-off for something (power? cooling?).

Until all features are in game, balance is all speculation and subject to change.

is it currently worth to grind Esploration rank in Elite?
i have a decently fit Asp

>>174894835

Exactly. There's "lite" in the sense of cheap and underpowered. Then there's "lite" in the sense of being small so you can reduce the crewing requirements and improve maneuverability.

I'm talking about the latter here. A ship that enables solo play (or maybe duo play), has just enough cargo for missions that require it (ie ONE small cargo container), some living space, and is a competent dogfighter. So ships that could be in that category are the Reliant, 315p, Mustang Beta, Aurora.

Bigger ships like the freelancer stop being competent dogfighters. It's a different playstyle. An F-150 truck is great, but it's not the upgrade from a sportscar.

Starter ships are multipurpose so newbies get a feel for what's out there. Then as you get better you buy ships more powerful and more specialized for a particular role. What I'm talking about is a ship concept that specializes in being multipurpose as playstyle for players who are willing to give up some effectiveness in exchange for variety but not so much that they're in a newbie ship for their entire careers.

Railgun corvette or plasma?

>>174900529
All four of those ships would eat shit in a dogfight with a competent Freelancer pilot.

https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2017/04/24/vanquish-pc-release-hints/

Do you see them too anons?
>Yes I do, those damn hexagons.....

>>174895628

Dad here. I just want to be able to fuck around on weekends sometimes in high-sec space without griefing ruining my experience utterly.

The problem with the bitching is that people say they want low-sec high-threat experience to be available, but then want to be able to import that to drive out occasional players altogether via griefing.

You've got hard-core griefers who do nothing but game and harass people with jobs and families because they're loser NEETs who want to take out their life frustrations in a game world. Then you've got dads who want to fly casual and want to be able to boot up and fly end-game tweaked ships and kick ass despite only being able to play for two hours on sundays while the kids are at soccer practice.

Catering to both shouldn't be a problem. The griefers get their part of space and the dads get theirs. People playing heavily and constructively in orgs get the most advancement and can be found everywhere-- they have the numbers and firepower to defend against griefers and the cooperative spirit to co-exist with the dads.

The problem is that what griefers and dads REALLY want is for the whole game to cater to their own playstyle at everyone else's expense. Griefers want to be able to kill dads in high-sec space with few consequences. Dads want to be able to enjoy low-sec space without experiencing low-sec risks. Both want advancement that they do nothing to earn.

>>174901394
>muh griffers!

Stick to E:D, you've already ruined enough

>>174901852
not an argument

>>174895813

Planning and executing the crowdfunding strategy.

Extensive community-building and engagement. Message management that keeps us hooked with news that we can talk about over many years.

Guerilla marketing strategy that built momentum around the crowdfunding despite no playable game after most of a decade. Especially those concept ship commercials that got early backer $$$s.

Player expectation management-- people are shelling out for product that won't appear for years. The game is direly late, won't be out anytime soon, and since the ships are earnable in-game why bother buying a Constellation at all? And yet people are very clear on what they're buying, that they're part of a community helping fund a gaming philosophy and concept that they believe in, and still the bitching isn't more than you can find in nearly any general thread on this board. It's not an accident that players are mostly engaged and interested, or that the news cycles feature a steady stream of new information to talk about and content to debate/speculate/experience.

The cons and events are also very well planned and again contribute to the marketing strategy.

Press relations aren't great but we saw from gate that good press requires advertising $$$ or undisclosed equity stakes-- neither of which SC does. So given what they're willing to pay for it, their media relations are fine.

The marketing mix is Product, Price, Place, and Promotion. Distribution of software is a little moot, but she has leverage to make the right input in the product side, and the pricing and revenue models are spot-on, and the promotion has been first rate.

I can go on if you want. I'm a marketing professional and have been for going on 20 years. She's doing a great job, especially in the areas where marketing typically isn't visible and often slacks off.

>>174895628>>174901394
normal player here.
I'm all ok with cut-throat null sector but you'll want a way to keep lazy pirate from camping around popular quest spot, just waiting for you to get on a long rover trek to steal your ship.
even pirate will be begging for PvP slider
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4SABcj4a8Y

>>174895904

The 300 series could be much better than it is. The good news is that the base design only needs a few changes. It just needs better stats and a total redesign of the interior.

>>174902458
>popular quest spot
That's not really how SC is going to work.

>>174840763
what no duck tales moon theme?

>>174897213
>No excuse for the Buccanner

Here's the excuse: it's a pirate ship. You use them like TIE fighters: large numbers and focus fire to overwhelm your prey, and anybody who starts taking fire then uses his maneuverability to avoid it while the rest continue their attack. Against foes with sufficient numbers, you don't attack in the first place.

Meanwhile the Cutlass swoops in for the loot for small targets... or use the cutlass to punch through and disable a much bigger transport in which case you have a caterpillar to haul off all the loot instead.

The Buccaneer isn't an assault rifle or even a service pistol. It's a cheap Uzi that you hand out to everyone in the gang for doing drivebys and ambushes, or for carjacking lightly defended trucks.

The Buccaneer can't be tougher without sacrificing speed, maneuverability, or firepower-- none of that is an option. Or without making it more expensive which means you have fewer in a fleet which means smaller numbers which is also not acceptable.

Ditto for range (even moreso). You need enough range to get to or from your staging area. Your gang's leader probably PREFERS the fact that you depend on his command ship; it gives him leverage so he can keep his gang under control.

>>174901906
Doesn't need one.

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Playing elevator music while being the galaxy's worst tour guide is oddly fitting.

>>174897410

I don't agree that there's no such thing as bad publicity, but you're right that ultimately Smart did a lot to help Star Citizen and CIG by being such a dick and so loud about it.

IMO Smart's a good example of Conquest's Law though, not a conspiracy.

>>174899409

And the Sabre has excellent guns, too. It's clearly near the top in terms of firepower for its size/role.

>>174899543

The crab arm isn't just bad for maneuvering, it's terrible for shooting as well. And you don't necessarily shoot in the direction you maneuver- in fact it has two crew specifically so you WON'T fly this way.

I've seen numerous threads showing basically the same ship design in numerous other media. It's just too common to be anything but unoriginal.

IMO you can mitigate some of this by raising the cockpit and moving the arms out. But the core problem is that when you make a ship like the sabre, nobody bitches that it looks like a fighter because that's expected and also a good case of form following function. The BD hits the sweet spot of being weird AND unoriginal. For a company that gave us the Reliant, Cutlass, 300 series, hornet, etc etc etc, the reality is that the BD just isn't up to par with the rest of what CIG is doing.

It needs a totally new concept drawing IMO. Everyone screws up from time to time, and there's no shame in going back to one of those other sketches from ATV, keeping the central hull, stats, and overall concept. Theres a lot to like about the Banu Defender but those arms are just made of 24 carat suckage.

>>174902528
It has always been part of the plan, unique handcrafted place, not just procedurally generated ED junk to see and mine
There was some Townhall's with a lengthy answer about how to keep players from flocking a single npc-quest-giver
Top of head there was "call security" option, "you need to take an appointment" option and "always a second npc available"

>>174901852

Since the NEETs don't finance the game and the guys with the stable jobs and families do, if there was an unsolvable conflict between griefers and dads, a rational company would pick the dads. Sorry, you guys don't cut the checks, and you ruin the playing experience for the newbies who bring in the revenue. The dads may not contribute much within the gameworld beyond their ship purchases, but at least they don't actively make things worse for people.

As a designer, I'm not going to reward either group with in-game advancement, but the dads are a better market if you have to cater to one or the other.

OTOH, the most important group are the constructive players. They play heavily (unlike the dads) but cooperatively (unlike the griefers). They contribute to the game world: they organize the groups, help recruit and train newbies, are the backbones for the game-wide events, and generally make things more fun for everyone including themselves. They do well in both nullsec and highsec space. High death taxes don't hurt them because they don't die as much. If you have to pick, these are the guys you want to get most of the advancement.

>>174904728
Thanks for finally admitting it makes for a bad game.

Thankfully, Chris doesn't give a shit about that, so gg :^)

>muh griffers! They're psychopaths!

dad meme is not funny, it's sad

>>174904607
>It has always been part of the plan, unique handcrafted place
And those places are largely going to be used as part of the procedural mission system. You won't have to do them to progress in the game or anything. A particular type of mission might send you to a particular landmark. You'll know this, so you have the option to just take another mission. There's not going to be progression with specific quests like in most MMOs.

>Top of head there was "call security" option, "you need to take an appointment" option and "always a second npc available"
Almost all of which will likely be in town/cities aka armistice zones, which are completely safe. And, like above, you don't need to go to less safe areas if you don't want to.

>>174904728
>Since the NEETs don't finance the game

kek^2

>>174902528

I think some quests will be handcrafted. Inevitably, especially as part of major game-wide events. And some quests will be more lucrative and have unique rewards that lots of people want. In those situations, some quests will inevitably be in high demand.

Sure procedurally generated quests as part of the meta simulation may be your bread and butter, but there will always be opportune spots for ambushes. To some extent, this is desirable. It's only when you make it easy for one high-involvement player to ruin the game experience for 20 newbies who aren't as hard core that you have someone who's more trouble to the game as a whole than he's worth.

Whereas a high-involvement player who sticks to his knitting or only works with other high-involvement players is neutral-to-good. And the guy who works to help newbies and drives the player community, etc (as you have in Eve in some cases) is someone you want to reward because he's not just paying, he's growing the player base and contributing to your revenue that way.

>>174804271
Does anybody know if the 300 series is ever going to get a rework?

>>174904846

I just got on this thread, and my first post was to say that both dads and griefers are bad for an MMO. Griefers are worse of course because they shrink your player base, whereas dads have no effect one way or the other (but at least they do have more cash which they use to buy some free advancement).

The best group to cater to is constructive players, but not everybody is a constructive player. Dads at least are "free" so long as you don't nerf the game for them.

>>174905103
I definitely agree, but my point is that it's inherently different from "normal" MMOs, and so griefing is far less of a problem.

You're probably not going to be forced into a specific mission that always goes to a specific place in low-sec space to progress in the game. Because of that, those high risks are never forced on the player.

High risk missions should definitely have their appeal, but you'll never be barred from buying a ship or whatever because you won''t do a mission in a nullsec pirate system.

Basically, SC's design and especially its mission and progression design make griefing inherently a very small problem.

>>174905440
> Griefers are worse of course because they shrink your player base

Yeah EvE died because of muh griffers right

>whereas dads have no effect one way or the other

absolute fucking bullshit

Any word on a mustang rework?

>>174903194
The excuse was for a very different things, about an answer saying the Bucc would be shit as an ESCORT fighter.
What you describe will be typical strategy for npc mooks, they'll not be escorting the Cutlass/Cater they'll be attacking stuff and hoping to be done before they are too crippled to return for repair
This was in answer to the lack of imagination about the Banu Defender being all shield.

>>174904131
Errrrr.... you are from the future and played it already? The only picture I've seen from it's "horrible cockpit view" was a shitty shop that ignore HUD.
I keep calling double standard and impossible standard, I don't think you could come up with a design that fit all of your criteria while being original.
Just spreading the arms would solve 80% of the criticism and yet it rarely mentioned, typical case of ignoring simple solution to call for a replacement of a design one don't like.

>>174904858

I'm a dad. It's fun. I get regular sex, a fulfilling life, disposable income, and I won't die alone. I still play vidya, too, just not as much.

>>174905102

In SC, the heavy players can spend more time online to make up for the fact that they didn't buy more than a starter ship. No monthly subscriptions.

So they can grind their way to better content without CIG seeing any financial benefit. The good news is that CR wants death to be a serious problem, so griefers who constantly suicide their way into high-sec space killing newbies won't be able to keep up with constructive players who cooperate and don't constantly get themselves killed.

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Can I put a shitload of missiles on a ship in E:D?

>>174905545

I hope you're right. The high death tax will also help. Griefers in most games like to brag that they're high-skill players, but in most games I've seen, their big advantages are that they grind to end-game loadouts and then mostly take advantage of suicide moves to bypass the protections of high-sec space. A griefer's ultimate advantage is their willingness to fuck their own gaming experience just to make sure other people have less fun.

IRL, these people end up dead or in jail, but MMOs tend to be more forgiving and griefers take advantage of that forgiveness. A high death tax leaves someone sacrificing a lot of advancement just to hurt newbies... which erodes their advantages in battle and makes them vulnerable to committed and positive players who will have better stuff and so can slap them down.

>>174905778

Then raise the cockpit, spread the arms, and call me back. Until they do it, visibility is an issue. Struts are fine IMO because they're not a giant block in front of your own line of fire at the center of your targeting reticule. I'm not asking for every ship to have a bubble cockpit, but I'd like to be able to see where the fuck I'm moving and shooting, and blocking the center of the field of view is just plain not viable.

HUDing your way out of design issues? Why have a window at all if you're going to block most of its view?

>>174905986
You want to pledge to chinaman and get his packhouds.

>>174906138
I also think it's important to keep the term "griefer" in perspective. Launching a raid into high sec space or something doesn't automatically make you a griefer. A lot of people make that mistake, crying "griefer!!!" whenever someone kills them if they're not interested in PVP, which is stupid and gay. In fact, I can't quite think of a way that you'd be able to reliably "grief" in Star Citizen honestly. Then again, I'm sure experienced shitheads and probably a lot more clever with this shit than I am.

We should also remember that SC will have a crime system. People consistently pulling stunts generally seen as griefing are probably going to rack up pretty high bounties, meaning they're going to attract a lot of heat they probably can't handle.

>>174906138
>makes them vulnerable to committed and positive players who will have better stuff and so can slap them down.

ooooh nooo

newbies get their shit handed to them by experienced and geared players?

Better put a stop to that immediately anon, can't stand for that

>>174906540
Your reading comprehension is fucked m8

>>174906727
Poor little babs got to look after the tard patrol

Can't let them get demolished by people with more gametime and investment, that wouldn't be fair after all. Not like we want this to be a skill-based game, that would be awful!

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>>174906409
i don't get what you're both arguing about the ship is still in concept phase and there are 7 review passes left

>>174899309
Including 1.0 amirite

>>174907032
What the fuck are you even talking about?

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someone remind me how a $160 million dollar game gets it's flight model blown the fuck out by a budget flash game some dude made for kicks?
https://youtu.be/0lhtf0k1haU

>>174907149
The idea that a safety blanket is a good thing

>>174907683
There is no "safety blanket". Security gets lower as you get further away from population centers. And griefing (e.g., blowing your resources on killing newbs) inherently makes you more vulnerable to experienced players who are bounty hunting.

This is all extremely natural and doesn't coddle new players at all. The fuck are you talking about?

>>174907808
aw diddums, sounds like you wandered off E:D forums!

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>Ben! Set up another ship sale!

>>174906479

OK, using WoW as an example, a classic griefer would suicide and rez his way into Ironforge or Orgrimmar, then path out the guards and kill newbies until he himself is killed, then rez and repeat until his gear needs to be fixed. Or does the same thing in a newbie area, where someone kitted out with endgame content continually one-shots <10th lvl players. People summon a high-level friend to eliminate him, and he just rezzes and keeps going (or logs off for an hour or two then comes back).

This isn't adding richness to the game, and it's taking advantage of the unrealistic game mechanics (repeated resurrections and logging behavior; depending on the game usually levelling tiers as well). There are suicide bombers IRL but they only get to do it once.

Key to this is that they pretend that this is mostly based on skill and time commitment. See >>174906540 >>174907032. When really it all usually boils down to exploiting death mechanics and suicide tactics. A high death tax (and remember that IRL the tax is 100%) means that griefers can't keep up with high-involvement players who play constructively. So they can get slapped down more easily.

Of course then they whine that IT'S NOT FAAAAAIR unless game mechanics artifically reward them for their "investment".

>>174907969
Here's your last (You), retard.

>>174907063

But we debate the merits of the design because it's on sale now and we have to make our decision now. Sure that might change in a year when it becomes hangar-ready or flyable, but any ship might or might not change.

In my experience, ship aesthetics tend to be the most enduring feature of a ship. So those guns may change, and the maneuverability and durability might be completely different, but those damn arms will still be there, especially if we don't let people know they're a problem.

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>>174864207
kneel before BAKA

>>174907808

Maybe he works for ISIS and wants to be able to do multiple suicide bombings and still someday lose his virginity (maybe).

No fair! Those police officers totally nerf the play experience! And why can't I blow myself up more than once! NOT FAIR I MADE A BIG PLAY INVESTMENT

>>174905781
>so griefers who constantly suicide their way into high-sec space killing newbies

Except this isn't how it works. They will band into gangs/raids and dominate or avoid security forces entirely while spawn camping their victims. The victims will die a lot. Very few griefers Wil die, if any. They will exploit everything from AI to the physics engine to ensure this.

Source: I love to griff and will probably demonstrate all of this to you personally.

>>174908106
Oh, I don't disagree with you on any of that.

What I'm saying is that going into that area to kill newbies is a legitimate tactic *if it's appropriately difficult*. In the case of WoW it's very clearly an unintended mechanic that negatively affects loads of players, while being pretty easy to pull off.

Death tax will make this much less common, like you said. And the crime system will put a bounty on their heads meaning that griefing like what you describe will be both stopped more quickly AND create some content for other players. It's just less of an issue in SC than in other games.

>>174864207
>There is no reason for it.
http://eurocrowd.org/2015/11/23/vat-and-crowdfunding-the-eu-rules/

>>174908643
Players will spawn at space stations and planets, which will be nigh-impossible to dominate unless you've got a huge org backing you up.

If you do manage to take a space station or something, not only will you have the AI police force to deal with, but your inevitably large bounty is going to attract every mercenary in the system, plus loads of players trying to be a hero.

>>174908648
> it's very clearly an unintended mechanic

Hi there Catababby

level 60s returning to lower level areas was a core pvp game mechanic.

>>174908880
Suicide runs aren't really intended play in any game and shouldn't be rewarded.

>>174908512
stop bullying mentally ill people

>>174904923
You miss the point, you will have quest at specific unique and you will want to do those missions. The game won't be 100% proc gen shit like E:D. There will be grind mission, and there will be quest.

If you want me to reformulate : many features incompatible with free opportunistic pvp will need some game-mechanic to make them enjoyable without out-of-game exploit from human player.
Just taking the Homestead demo, if a player happened to detect your not-stealth constellation from space it, how do you prevent stealing/killing? Magical storm bring down griefer or pirate? Npc-crew guard your ship?
That sort of things.

Note : saying "armistice zone" will get you called a dad. Nobody is stupid enough to believe they'll take over those town but players do intend to kill and assassinate you and run away in a dark alley

>>174905606
Eve is shit and you would to pay me to play it

>>174906479
I approve this post

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THE ELDER SCROLLS V: SKYRIM
Budget: $90 million USD
Development team: 80
Development time: 3 years

STAR CITIZEN
Budget: $140 million USD
Development team: 268 + outsourcing for animations, voice acting
Development time: 4 years
State: 3+ years remaining until release

>>174908981
>Suicide runs aren't really intended play in any game and shouldn't be rewarded.

Who says they have to be suicidal?

>>174909240
(You)

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>>174908018

>tfw drunk driving, get caught on camera, and get away with it anyway

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Hey Star Citizen fans, can you do me a favor?

Take a look at these images of procedurally generated planets and tell me which one was made by:

1) the 268 employee company with $140 million US dollars of funding, over the course of four years

2) the 58 year old Russian astronomer, over the course of six months, in his free time away from his job