/lisg/ - Life is Strange General #477

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BFFs, Pirates, Partners in Time & Crime & In Love, Fellow Dorks, GFs, Wives.
OTP.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhvZxmgLfNA

We did it! All it took was having our hands forcibly tied so we couldn't post images for a few hours.

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Max is #1

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>>169404040
And then people posted imaginary pictures!

We must cutepost.

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>>169403668
Before Episode 5's release:
>Lol Mari's theories're shitty.It's way more than shitty to become true
>Chloe has to die thing doesn't make sense.Don't worry they will come with unpredictable story
>We're gonna learn everything about Max's powers,Rachel and Prescotts even Nathan,spirit animals..
>Jefferson knows about Max's powers
>Nathan,Frank,David or Samuel's gonna save us
>Victoria's with Max,she'll save her
>(After seeing Cemetery scene from leaks) I'm sure it'll be Williams,Rachel's or Kate's grave.
>Rachel's the doe and Butterfly and probably we'll see her in Max's dream
>Blue Jay's Chloe

After Episode 5's release:
>Mari's shitty cliche theory became right
>We visited the SF art gallery for 3 seconds. FOR 3 DAMN SECONDS
>Jefferson became a silly bad guy from Disney
>David came to save us.He's a former-soldier but he can't even fight,just listens teenager's orders. Even he doesn't know she has some time travel powers.
>Victoria's with us in the dark room.Laying there and we can talk her or not.Just it.
>Nathan get killed,Victoria too
>Nathan knew something about the storm but they cut it.
>Warren explained Max's powers(!)(thanks warryn) We found out her power causes/related with Chaos Theory and storm.It's not like we didn't know or something.
>Storm is only coming for Bay because Chloe lives in there but Max's the one who keep changes the time
>Prescotts story erased.Nobody even mention their name.
>Rachel's story fucked too.She isn't or butterfly,bluejay just spiritualdoe
>Spirit animals thing died.Blue Butterfly's storm summoner just it.
>Chloe dies again in one of endings (unpredictable) It gives you a lesson: You shouldn't have used your power.And you shouldn't play this game.Now erase your choices and cry like a bitch.
>Chloe has to die thing comes true, Cemetery scene explained with that.
>The other ending's short but it's less cliché than other.We saved Chloe,storm's hit the town and gone.That's it
>Epilogue: Use ur imaginations:)muh budget

Lisg, does your hometown have a diner that reminds you of the Two Whales?

Mine does. It's a pretty comfy spot that serves great meals and does all the cooking right behind the bar counter. Me and my friends used to go there to eat off our hangovers.

$10 will get you

>eggs
>bacon
>toast
>hash browns
>baked beans
>coffee

Pretty good deal I think.

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>As Max and Chloe are leaving the ruins of Arcadia Bay behind, there's one more tragic story unfolding
>Alice and Lisa stuck in Max's room, Alice hasn't eaten anything in days, the dorms are destroyed and no one comes looking for them
>"No one's gonna come save us, this is the end, we'll starve to death..."
>Alice...you can survive this and go back to your owner. All you have to do is... all you have to do is eat me."
>"What? No, fuck that. Lisa, you're my number one priority, I'm not eating you!"
>"Alice, think about it... how many times this week did you try to nibble my leafs? I'm a plant, Alice, you're a bunny, maybe it's time I accept my destiny... OUR destiny."
>"Lisa, I can't make this choice!"
>"No Alice, you're the only one who can"

>eat Lisa
https://instaud.io/kVV

>eat your own foot
https://instaud.io/kWb

>>169404502
It was pretty fun. Textual cuteposting is an artform.

>>169404908
There's a few diners around where I live now the best one recently redid their interior and it looks really nice.
Went from kind of a jumbled mess to a consistent color scheme.

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>friendly reminder that turning off your game is the confirmed canon ending

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>>169404908
Nope, none of those kind here. Some smaller diners, but they are more like snack shacks and concentrate on fast food rather than breakfast.

There's a trucker stop type of restaurant just a few miles away that does serve breakfast, but it resembles a bar more so than a diner.

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Why is Victoria so much like Hillary?

>>169405906
She isn't. They're very different, in their strengths and weaknesses.

>>169405906
I'm not the biggest Victoria fan but that is downright insulting.
Victoria's done some bad things but she recognizes it and wants to change to be a better person.

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Wonder how many people work at Two Whales. staff can't be that big but it also cannot just be Joyce working everything by herself.
I'd say two or three people whenever it's open.

Though after the storm, once it's rebuilt and reopened as Three Whales, Joyce and David own/run it together and sometimes Chloe waits tables. Maybe they have another person working to help out as well.

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>Friendly reminder that Alpha Chloe Price dicksurfed skater bois and launched beta nerds into orbit before she met Rachel then cucked Warren by snatching Max away from another nice guy

>>169406532
It's not cucking when we never had a chance. And I think Chloe kind of overstates her "Boy Toy phase", was probably just one guy but she makes it sound like she was some seductress because Chloe likes to over exaggerate.

http://www.strawpoll.me/12416723
http://www.strawpoll.me/12416723

You better vote now or bad things will happen.

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Funny moment when Max and Chloe stop for a snack at the Diner with this menu on their roadtrip.

>>169407215
I'm sure Chloe has a witty comment lined up like "I'd eat The Caulfield every morning if if could" which makes Max nearly spit out her coffee.

>>169406107
>insulting

I want to Trumptards to leave.

>>169406886
>New protagonist but the events of the first season have a huge influence in the story
Voted that. Would be cool and worthwhile for the series to actually establish its lore and have us find out more about the origin of the powers, the supernatural phenomena and magical stuff and everything. It would retroactively improve that aspect of Season 1, and while it's obvious that this stuff was never of prime importance to the story and more there as narrative device, to drive plot and build atmosphere, support narrative themes symbolically and metaphorically, it was a major appeal and selling point, which it would again be for a new season just by virtue of getting fans more interested and invested right off the bat with the prospect of understanding the LiSVerse better.

Likewise, one of the major draws and fuels of the hype behind Season 1 was the speculation regarding the investigation, the mystery and the supernatural, their backgrounds, how it would all play out and together. We were making theories and analyzing every detail and so were other communties. And since it all did lead into pretty much nowhere, nothing really connected with each other or explained, more red herrings than water for them to swim in, I think if they want to get that same hype, have the communities want to explore and analyze and speculate and so on again, they will need to convince people that they actually have a mystery to be figured out, that there is something worth investing time and effort and interest into. And constructing the second season with the premise that it looks to delve into those mysteries and sub/side-plots of the first, would be a way to gain trust again. Which they would then hopefully deliver on.

That said, those things were never that important to me personally, and I knew they were means to an end, to a character-centric, human story. So maybe I'd prefer something entirely new after all, and not another chapter in what would then call the "LiSVerse".

Friendly reminder Max voted for Chloe and Chloe voted for Max

>>169410812
The *only* form of politics allowed on here.
Everything else is uncomfy and belongs on other boards.

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Soon we will start seeing warmer weather and then start getting the Spring and Summer art. Then after a few months of that we get to look forward to more comfy Fall/Winter stuff.

BAE > bay!

>>169406886
I'd like to see new characters but still have the events from the previous story have impact. Make the Prescotts villains again and really go into their motivation and actions. Make an interesting antagonist out of Sean or someone else.
Let us see some side characters again or maybe even Max and Chloe during the story. Maybe Max saves the new protagonist and somehow they realize she rewound time.
It unfortunately won't happen though because Dontnod (At least for the time) are done with Max and Chloe, and to continue their story would validate one choice over another or force them to create a third option that then becomes the official story route. Which could be really cool to give Max the ending she and Chloe deserve by using the second season to say "Max found a third option to save both Chloe and the town".

There's also the question of setting. Which I think will be very different from a small town like Arcadia Bay.

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>>169413540
Every day.

>>169404908
No, I don't live in America. Though things like this kinda make me want to live over there...

>>169413540
All day

>>169414832
I think it would be interesting to see Nathan and Sean's relationship; having it drift away from people, relationships and personal narrative is absolutely against what the game was.

The sci-fi/mystery elements were just a tool, and taking out Max and Chloe to have the "story" make an impact, is largely uninteresting and misses the point.

>>169406886
I actually want an AU with Max and Chloe in a new setting. It would be a completely different universe from S1, but Max and Chloe would return as the main characters, same personalities, same chemistry, different backgrounds and powers

>>169417453
I think Sean just doesn't care about Nathan. Maybe at some point he did when he was younger, but over time Nathan's instability or business got in the way of their relationship so Sean just kind of wiped his hands clean.
Telling Nathan to calm down, but also hiding him from getting any help because if word got out it would reflect badly on the family. This may even become Sean dumping money on Nathan and Jefferson, hoping the older of the two would fill in for his role as father.

>>169418271
Which of course makes things even worse because that father-figure is a psycho asshole.
Nathan's story is tragic. Even if his own actions were despicable, he really never did have a chance in any of the timelines.
That does not at all excuse what he did to Rachel, Chloe, Kate, and any others though.

>>169418519
>>169418271
Any Nathan songs?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNd4eocq2K0

>>169406886
New cast. Love the S1 cast, but I see no way to continue their story.

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Gotta go for a bit.
Stay comfy!

>>169419959
The old cast weren't given a fair sendoff. Why should we assume that a new cast would be treated any better?

>>169419962
Have fun!

>>169419962
There are skinwalkers in those forests!

Look at Max's skinwalker face!

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Evening all! Hope you are comfy

>>169406876
You acknowledged that you never had a chance, but still: shut up, Warren.

>>169405906
Because she's done some dubious things, but they pale into insignificance compared to a completely unhinged spaz like Nathan or Trump.

>>169410680
Better yet. The game takes place in Arcadia Bay when the Prescotts first settled in the area. The protagonist stops them from using whatever power they've uncovered. In the end, if the characters makes the right choices, they'll be thrown through a time portal and see into the future: Max and Chloe are kissing below the lighthouse as the sun sets over the bay with no sign of a tornado.

>>169419962
What is Max doing with her right hand?

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>>169425454
Saturday is for comfy.

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>ywn join Kate and Max's slumber party

>>169425934
Look at their faces and then look inside you. You will see.

>>169426262
You don't have a computer, Samuel. How are you posting?

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>>169425792
Actually a change of that magnitude, that far in the past would probably erase Max and Chloe from existence. Haha. ;)

>>169425792
Having it be set in 1910 or so Arcadia, as a sort of origin story on the Prescotts and the Native American themes, could actually be interesting... but it's so not in the spirit of the series, I feel. It's modern and has a quirky charm, and while they've built world and atmosphere really well, the details of it were seriously messed up at times - and that's with modern everyday US, imagine the type of immersion-breaking shit this would translate into if they had to keep things historically accurate and respectful to, say, a past of settler-native-relations and the like.

I am so curious what they've thought up.

WHEN

>>169427229
90's riot girl/punk scene, with Chloe and Max!

Like Gone Home!

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>>169426859
>Haha. ;)
NO EMOJI
O

E
M
O
J
I

>>169427229
It could be a coming of age story about a teenager resisting the industrialist Prescotts. The themes of coming of age and taboo relationships could easily be incorporated.

See below:

The plot could follow a young woman hellbent on finding her missing father, who it turns out died while trespassing on Prescott land. She starts having visions. The character could enter a settler/native relationship. Depending on her ethnic background, she could gain her vision powers from a Native American rite, perhaps normally reserved for men, or be gifted the supernatural ability by mistake. The visions could turn into a puzzle side game where incorrect moves grant misinterpretations or obscure portions of the premonitions.

>the details of it were seriously messed up at times

No story is perfect. With a larger budget, they'll have more time and money to spend on research and writing. Their investors will tolerate delays because there's a devoted fan base that continues producing art and fiction based on the characters from the first Season two years after its release. They're guaranteed to turn a profit, which translates into more money.

>>169427367
Chloe and Max take Seattle...Interesting, but only to an extremely niche audience. That'd make a nice Sims-esque game, focusing on their domestic life, but not a graphic adventure like the first season.

>>169428340
Seattle?

Uh, no. 80/90's punk is around Portland, Olympia, and such, unless you actually think 90's = Flannel= Grunge = Seattle. That never actually happened.

Nirvana were from Aberdeen.

>>169428340
I've written out a similar idea in one of these threads as well. I really do think it could work, not least because Season 1 does point to such a past at various points (Native history, Prescott history, Blackwell history).

It's true that research would play a larger role for that setting than it presumably did for the small town high school setting, and I guess we'll see with Vampyr how dontnod generally fares as far as historical accuracy goes. We know their world and atmosphere building is pretty on-point.

>>169430912
Chloe is BAE!

>>169431828
Tastefully lewd, though!

It's very beautiful.

>tfw it actually, physically hurts to think of Max without Chloe or Chloe without Max
Life is Strange, stop. But don't tho.

>>169431828
hnn.

>>169431828
>Leaving love bites on Max's neck.
Everyone's gonna know.

>>169432573
I know.

I almost starved to death after watching the bay ending. I vomitted, and walked around with tears in my eyes for a month. I carved the date I finished Life is Strange into a tree in my backgarden, so I will always know the time and remember the feelings of that month.

>>169433123
It's curious how strong and lasting the hold this game has on some people is. It's a first for me.
Did you ever experience something like it with another game? Did anybody here? I mean I have a book that I go back to every few years, but that's not the same.

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>>169433123
Your suffering was beautiful, anon, and it made you a better person

>>169434508
Most stories that have great characters, settings, feelings and emotional connections tend to have great and satisfying endings as well. Even if they're tragic, we can say that it was a great journey and we feel fulfilled and satisfied by how it ended.

Life is Strange is like this, except there's no feeling of satisfaction or fulfillment. The game drops everything it was building up to to deliver endings that either contradict everything in the game, or are just confusingly short and uneventful.

That's why we're still here, we weren't given conclusions that live up to all other aspects of the game.

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>>169433123
Granted I'm a bit older, but the night I chose Bay I lay awake thinking about how sad it was that Max and Chloe weren't together. The next day my first thoughts were about how the Bay ending wasn't necessary and didn't make sense. I awoke shouting in my head that Chloe didn't need to die and that there should've been a third option.

>>169431828
>>169432436
Not as lewd as...

>pic related.

>>169431129
Building on the unexplored stories in Season 1 will grant closure to the devoted fan base and introduce new gamers to the original themes.

Vampyr looks cool. Accuracy may be off, but they captured the right mood. That's the most important part of fiction. One of my publishers looked through a manuscript of a piece of fiction they eventually bought. I would post the exact quote, but there's a chance I'd identify myself, which could have some poor real life ramifications. Here's a paraphrase, "Scientifically it wouldn't work this way, but...it's a damn cool idea. So, we'll leave it in."

>>169406886
I'm a hardcore Pricefield shipper but I think Max and Chloe story is I don't know if the right word is...done?
With the endings we got it's pretty hard to make a direct sequel without making one or another ending canon. They gave us Max and Chloe so there's nothing preventing them to make similar characters (or even better ones).

>>169437217
>it's pretty hard to make a direct sequel without making one or another ending canon.

Not necessarily. Many television series resolve cliff hangers in the opening minutes of the next season. It's within the realm of possibility that they could summarize a third ending at the beginning with little shenanigans.

Resolving the ending would contradict the executive producer who said that Max and Chloe's adventures were done. That's the only barrier.

That and Michel's imagination.

>>169437217
I mean, Telltale's Walking Dead S2 had 3 extremely different endings, yet they all got resolved at the beginning of S3 (pretty badly, but it happened)

Just make Bae the main plotline. If someone picked Bay, have a montage of Max going through life without Chloe, unable to do so, then jumping through the photo to save Chloe and tell herself to choose Bae at the end of the week, wake up in the new timeline with Chloe alive, boom.

At least, that's the lazy route, but Dontnod always takes the lazy route

>>169434508
I experienced something slightly similar with Ellie and Riley, but nothing like this.

Gone Home hurt me, too.

>>169434937
Funnily, Michel, in this case, it did.

>>169435795
That's nothing, gramps. I was like that every day.

I'd have honestly been fascinated if they'd included an RNG in the bay ending, that if chosen has a high chance of dishing out an even more negative ending (the storm still arrives, Max wakes up in the rape bunker at Jefferson's mercy with no one coming for help). The moral of the story being that you'd chosen to gamble that Chloe's death would fix everything without any real evidence it would do so.

The response from the public would have been really interesting to see, with half the bayfags complaining that they didn't get the same ending as the other half, and that it just wasn't fair.

>>169435096
That makes sense and is probably true for many players, but I was happy with my ending. I only watched the other one weeks later when I came to these threads and it wasn't for another couple of months that I went back to the game and this time stayed.

>>169438687
Maybe I will play Gone Home, I hadn't heard of that.

>>169439784
I heeded the advice of a buddy of mine and turned off the game at the final choice a couple days ago. After watching both endings, I'm happy with the headcannon.

I'll greentext it, since it's a bit long.

> Chloe and Max don't return to Arcadia Bay when Blackwell re-opens, but stay in Portland.
> Kate Marsh contacts Max when she doesn't come back.
> "I'm with my girlfriend in Portland."
> Kate spurns the "devil worshiping hedonists."
> Without high school degrees, they don't find jobs.
> They end up living in Chloe's truck.
> After a few stints in prison, they seek help from their parents.
> Max's parents, mad at her for wasting their money by ditching private school, won't let her stay with Chloe and bring her back to Seattle
> Max's parents blame Chloe for Max's bad behavior and prevent her from contacting Chloe
> Chloe is abandoned once again.
> Joyce, a conservative southern woman, and David, a traditional Republican, send Chloe to conversion therapy in return for paying her debts.
> Kate suggests a clinic run by her church.
> Chloe is raped by multiple male orderlies each day to ungay her.
> Max wakes up.
> "Wowsers. What a horrible dream. Good thing I sacrificed that blue haired dyke to save the town."
> Goes down the hall to suck Warren's morning wood.

>>169438965
>Dontnod makes the Bay ending canon
>Max realise that letting Chloe didn't fix anything and the storm will still hit the town

wtf i love bay ending now

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>>169440468
Oh. I forgot a good image to go with it.

>>169440621
>For luck

Poor guy never had a chance.

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>It seems that all hope is lost
>The Dark Lord Mychel has summoned a giant tragedy tornado made up of crashed cars, humiliating photographs and bunkers far too expensive to buy for a teenage boy
>He's tied up the people of Arcadia Bay to one side of the train tracks and Chloe to the other
>He asks Max to choose who will get slammed by the tragedy tornado
>He plans to slam both sides of the train tracks anyway
>Suddenly two mysterious costumed adventurers with long fluffy ears fly to the rescue
>The superhero duo huff and they puff and they blow Mychel and his tragedy tornado back to the decadent land of baguettes and berets
>They burn away the restraints on Chloe and the people of Arcadia Bay with their heat vision and then fly away as they receive an enormous cheer
>A great big party is thrown throughout the town
>Max, Chloe, Kate, Lynn and Frank have a private picnic with their animal friends
>Lynn is still ecstatic, wondering who those mysterious saviors were
>Meanwhile Lynn's cuddly companion Dorothy winks at her sister bunny
>Then suddenly to everyone's shock, Horny the goat starts floating in the air
>He's still munching on one of Lisa's leaves as this happens

>>169440823
Hopefully they have rewind powers to turn hella incestuous and go back in time to face a binary choice: live in a world where bunnies eat no carrots or Lisa dies after Max and Warren fuck on top of her then Frank spills beans on her leaves when he gets a turn while Chloe's tears salinate the soil, destroying her chances of regermination.

What lengths will they go to to save Lisa? We'll find out in Season 2 of LiS.

>>169441305
Stop bullying Lisa!

>>169438965
If they were going to keep the endings exactly alike then they should have cut them both to the same length.
Either Max leaves with Chloe, or Max hears the gunshot and the credits roll. People picking Bay did not deserve to get an ending three times as long and that shows an aftermath.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2Rk-pLgtYE

>>169441406
It's Alice who makes the choice.

>>169441921
Don't bully Alice either!

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>>169441914

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>>169442089

>>169442051
Don't bully anyone except Jefferson and Michel!

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>>169441914
Hey you stole this from me when I posted it here!
Good, we need more chromatics

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlUHC9Hswtg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zX4TZmS4jo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ke4yVP7Inl8

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>>169425968

>LiS thread on /v/
>many people saying that they chose to sacrifice Chloe in a heartbeat
>asked some guys if they would sacrifice a person that they love for some shitty town
>90% said no

oh the hypocrisy...

>>169444867
>LiS thread on /v/

There's your problem partner

>>169445083
It's really a problem.
/v/ got more shiteaters than plebbit

>>169444867
It's not really hypocrisy if they didn't connect with Chloe as if she were a loved one. Sorry but you can't just assume that she has universal appeal for everyone.

>>169445150
It really should just be said that discussing this game anywhere but /lisg/ or a part of Tumblr will just result in frustration.

>>169446534
If you're not playing the game as Max's shoes then there's no reason to play. That's (one of the problems with Polarized, the entire game you're left in the dark about some things and just have to see di actions to see the results, but then the final choice is based purely on outsider information Max would not have. Max would have no reason to believe the storm would be stopped with Chloe's death so there would be no point to her taking that gamble.

>>169444867
>go on there
>see all the vacuous hypersexualization of female characters
>"CHANGE HER FACE IT DOESN'T GET MY DICK HARD"
>"THIS GIRL IS SEXY- THE BEST GAME OF THE DECADE"

How retarded and shallow are these people. Why do they even play video games.

>>169446534
It would actually be pretty easy to sacrifice somebody you don't really even care about that much and then pat yourself on the back and call yourself moral for serving the ''''''''''''''greater good'''''''''''''
There are people who hate you or me. Why it should be different with Chloe?

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>>169449120
A Max for that Chloe

As much as I hate the endings, it wouldn't be too obvious to have an option to ''save'' everyone? like the one you have in GTA 5

>>169447641
>>169444867
Warren would sacrifice Chloe.

>>169447382
>see all the vacuous hypersexualization of female characters
Instead of the vacuous hyperwaifuism propagated by this thread.

>>169449992
...Sigh.

>>169449992
Maybe the game could track how much you interacted with the side characters in the game, talked to them about their troubles, and get them to like you and trust you. The catch is that getting on one characters good side may put you on anothers bad side (Talking to Warren may upset Brooke, talking to Victoria may upset Alyssa/Daniel/other kids bullied by the vortex club). This reinforces the idea of high school cliques, you can't soften up to everyone.

When you photojump into Warren's picture and convince Chloe not to go into the party, there's a dialogue option to tell Chloe that they need to warn people about the storm. Everyone who trusts you over the course of the week will believe you (along with obvious characters like Joyce and David) and evacuate that night, yet the others either won't or will doubt you until it's too late.

It doesn't matter, since the storm isn't Max's fault at all

>>169450510
>hyperwaifuism

Only for Kate, everyone else just wants Max and Chloe to be happy with each other. We also discourage lewdness, which can't be said for other "waifu"-based generals

>>169450510
Another reason warren is shit

>>169447382
One of these days I'll learn to stop looking at those threads. Absolute idiots.
My favorite is the "It's not even a game!" people. Or there's some questioning /lisg/'s existence.

>>169452126
> /v/: LiS is not a game
>b-but my japanese visual novels are!

I hate this.

>>169452126
>>169452393
>going on /v/ AT ALL
it's time to stop

>>169451224
>We also discourage lewdness,
Discouraging sexuality doesn't change the fact that many in the thread view them as objects, more teddy bears than sex dolls, instead of full human beings or characters. It's still fetishization.

>>169452604
???

The whole reason 90% of us are still here is because we like the characters because they aren't 2D cliches and have a lot of depth and character development to them.

We care about these characters in this regard, so we obviously want to see them in happy situations after everything they went through

>>169452604
>anons discourage sexualising
>they want to think about Max and Chloe at the height of their innocence

>>169452550
I barely even browse there anymore. Sometimes if it's super late at night I will just do a quick glance through each board. Or if something is pointed out that directs there I'll check it.
But I really should know by now to avoid LiS threads there.

>>169453025
Most Anons here are realistic. Acknowledging they will of course have a sexual side to their relationship, but that it's not going to be public or the biggest aspect. There's a big difference between overt sexualization and tasteful lewd.

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Dorks in love

I want to attend Max and Chloe's wedding and bring them a nice gift!

Wasn't season 2 supposed to be announced in January?
The fuck are they waiting for?

>>169431828
Fuck off, faggot
Max is a pure heterosexual, and she will wed Warren and create beautiful white children.

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>>169457149

>>169457149
Ha! You're such a jokester anon

>>169457009
No word on S2 yet. Best guess would probably early next year.

Why the Undertale general is much more active than ours?

>>169461091
Undertale has a huge cult following that LiS doesn't have.

We're more active than a lot of generals, and we're supposed to be dead

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>>169461605
>Max in a dress

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>>169462352
For Blackwell's Prom!

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>>And it's funny how I imagined
>>That I would be that person now
>>But it does not seem to have happened
>>Maybe I've just forgotten how to see
>>That I'll never be the person that I thought I'd be

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>>169463760
>And it's funny how I imagined
>That I could win this, win this fight
>But maybe it isn't all that funny
>That I've been fighting all my life
>But maybe I have to think it's funny
>If I wanna live before I die
>And maybe it's funniest of all
>To think I'll die before I actually see
>That I am exactly the person that I want to be
>Fuck yes

>I am exactly the person that I want to be

What a great song and a great moment in the game. I will say that a lot of songs really do hint to both endings, so there's something there for everyone. A lot of room for interpretation.
Though I entirely see them as saying Chloe and Max realizing they're alright and going to pave their way to a happy future.

I'm not going to argue this time about the moral superiority of the final choice or use vagueness to reinforce my choices, I will just say that the though of Chloe dying after everything is absolutely unthinkable and impossible for me to accept. She deserves to live, she has to.

>>169466142
>she going to kate herself.

>>169466828
Looks like the two whales is having a BBQ special

>>169466828
It begs belief that everyone inside there didn't smell an absolute reek of petrol, because in order to have an explosion like that the air would have to be thick with petroleum vapour. And that being the case, it's difficult to understand why they hadn't evacuated.

>>169467342

I reckon only Warren G gets taken out by that blast.

>>169467529
>Everyone else gets the fuck out, but he just sits there because his chemistry knowledge is telling him it's completely safe
>The same knowledge that told him to add group one metals to water

All this sad Max art...
She really wouldn't last long if Chloe died. She'd either end up ending it all or snapping and going back to save her.

>>169467342
Well in the end it doesn't look like the diner exploded.
Plus with the final timeline things move at a different pace, those inside the diner may have left, found shelter, or maybe David even came by to pick them up once the storm started looking really bad. I believe those inside lived.

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*Max wakes up with a startle*

"Chloe!"

"Huh?! Wha- Max? You alright? Shit, dude it's like four in the morning."

"Oh god. I t-thought I lost you again."

"What? Oh! You were having a nightmare? It's alright. C'mere."

"It felt so real. You were gone and I was miserable and even though the town was safe I couldn't go on knowing I let you d-"

"Ssshh. I'm not going anywhere. You saved me. Now come on, just relax and breath. I'll stay up until you're asleep again."

"Thanks Chloe, I love you."

"I love you too, Max. So fucking much. Just close those eyes and focus on my voice."

*Chloe whispers gently to Max while stroking her hair, using her voice to sooth Max and bring her back to a peaceful sleep.*

Chloe realizes Max had a rough night so the next morning she gets up early to make sure there's some sweet pastries for Max to nosh on.

>>169469548
Chloe looks good in that office. Maybe once they get a house and decorate it she can have a study with a similar chair and statue.

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>>169441914
>>169443593
Woah, where has this music been all my life.

>>169433087
Chloe's doing it on purpose to get Max to wear a turtleneck.

whoa didnt know there was a general about this game
played it through few days ago, have two questions:

1. how did kate get out of the dark room?
2. from what i understand this is sort of a final destination situation for chloe, so she has to die or catastrophes will keep happening, how does that fit with the save chloe ending? i mean after the tornado she will keep dying everyday and max has to save her everyday and more catastrophes will happen as a result?

>>169472658
>from what i understand this is sort of a final destination situation for chloe

This is never really established. The majority of incidents Chloe has are due to retarded behaviour ie stupid use of a gun, lying down on the busiest train tracks in the US with her foot in the points, trying to blackmail the resident psycho, being lured into an isolated area by another resident psycho, getting into a fight with the drug dealer when he's armed and has a dog and she has nothing.

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Good night /lisg/

>>169474060
This would be perfect for the "hey guys what's going on in this thread- oh shit" meme

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>>169474260
Night night

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>>169472658
>how did kate get out of the dark room?
Jefferson let her go. Apparently he doesn't usually kill his victims if he can help it.

>i mean after the tornado she will keep dying everyday and max has to save her everyday and more catastrophes will happen as a result?
Yeah, I believe that's the implication. Unless you want to believe dontnod had Chloe get stuck on the train tracks to illustrate nothing more than her own incompetence or unparalleled bad luck. That's a lot of resources to spend on a pretty inconsequential aspect of the character desu.

>>169474260
Night Alice.

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dat mini war you can have with Victoria

So basically, the whole game is pointless if you choose to save Arcadia Bay? Why even have the rewind power at all if you cant save Chloe? And dont give me this "the road is the goal" crap, that seems like a really cheap cop-out

I once saw a .gif of Victoria sucking a dog's cock. Really enjoyed that .gif

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>>169477264
You need to learn that life is hopeless, and that you can't become a good person unless everyone around you dies.

>>169476861
It's so cute.

>take a picture of her covered in paint
>rearrange her photographs
>she steals your cookies
>you scramble the Vortex Club list
>Victoria shit talks you on social media

Oh, just kiss her, you tsun-tsun.

>>169477420
This sort of stuff disturbs me.

I think it does come down to, well, sexism. They can't stand more assertive women, and they have to degrade them because they need to feel a sense of power over women, goddamnit!

>>169472658
>1.
She didn't really come to, so they returned her like it is said they always do.

>2.
Nah. Final destination looks different. Besides, the devs wanted to have her survive in the end for the longest time. She also dies in Episode 4 but the catastrophe still comes. The storm also comes in both the William and San Francisco AU, where in either Chloe has no other fatal incidences that week. The universe is not after her. If that's what dontnod wanted to establish, this story would be different.

>how does that fit with the save chloe ending?
The narrative intention is very clearly that it is over with the storm. Max had the vision of it, it's the narrative's culmination. This is a story and the ending is more about acceptance, of either outcome; it does not mean to say the storm would still come in the one, or that Chloe would still die in the other - that would be self-defeating, empty storytelling. And while it is annoying they didn't give us an explanation for the storm, they didn't anywhere say it was Chloe's surviving that caused it. Even in the wonky in-game explanation itself they say rewinding time is what caused the storm, and that Chloe is only circumstantially tied to it in that Max's powers awoke to save Chloe.

The idea that Chloe "will keep dying everyday" is absurd narratively, logically, and factually. She doesn't even die everyday in the game. And more, she does increasingly less. More instances were intentionally cut, even. These are used to raise the stakes, to give Max a compelling reason to keep using her powers, to establish that she has and uses them above all for Chloe. In a sense, it was certainly also intended as a means to portray that Max does not accept Chloe's death, which their message in the one end was to be that she comes to accept it. A message I don't appreciate for this narrative, very much opposed to the message of the other ending.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3klPdAy-nQ

A very Max song.

>>169479195
So you think dontnod dedicated months worth of resources to the train section to illustrate nothing more than "Chloe's dumb"?

>it does not mean to say the storm would still come in the one, or that Chloe would still die in the other
Nor does it mean another storm won't come if Chloe survives.

>that would be self-defeating, empty storytelling
Just because it's bad writing doesn't mean it wasn't their intention. And the universe trying to kill Chloe is better writing than "Chloe sure is stupid".

>Even in the wonky in-game explanation itself they say rewinding time is what caused the storm, and that Chloe is only circumstantially tied to it in that Max's powers awoke to save Chloe.
Chloe only survives because Max uses her rewind. Saving Chloe requires her to use knowledge she would not have acquired had she not rewound. The two are clearly entwined.

>She doesn't even die everyday in the game
She still dies a lot more than I do in an average week.

>These are used to raise the stakes, to give Max a compelling reason to keep using her powers, to establish that she has and uses them above all for Chloe
It's a meaningless way of raising the stakes if it isn't tied to anything else. There's a million better reasons for Max to use her powers than "Chloe's dumb".

>In a sense, it was certainly also intended as a means to portray that Max does not accept Chloe's death
That's a far more interesting interpretation when it's Max vs the universe as opposed to Max vs Chloe's stupid.

>>169480484
As a hipster lesbian Max surely listens to Joanna Newsom.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2qhqDN-oJQ

>>169477264
The narrative would then be one of an odyssey toward the acceptance of the death of a loved one.

But I do agree that that is a pointless narrative, both on the surface and beneath. Fatalistical at best, but more pessimistical and paradoxical even.

Dontnod would give you "road is the goal", but even with that it doesn't align. The story establishes the significance of their relationship, establishes its beneficial nature, how they grow and heal thanks to it and each other, are not good without the other. And it has them fight for it, through all. Overcome all, through it. Going back on all of that to accept defeat goes against everything meaningful in the story. Against their characters and the love between them, its significance, against their growth and health and fight, against standing up and getting involved and the things they've done, connections they've made, against the lessons they've learned that week about how we can only rely on our hearts for we cannot control or predict anything else, against a central aspect of the coming-of-age that has them accept, realize and embrace themselves, even against the very message that ending is intended to convey, namely that Max would be better now than she would have been had she never gotten any powers. And more.

With that, it really only mostly ends up being then the story about preventing a tornado, goes against everything that was characterally, narratively, emotionally, sentimentally meaningful in the game. Sure, some may appreciate the sentiment of overcoming the death of someone incredibly precious to us, of a loved one... but this is not that story. It does not tell that story, it just has that one ending cinemtic with that idea, a few seconds of that it, for which it contradicts the actual story on fundamental levels.

For me, it is a love story, and one about the meaningfulness and powerfulness of love, that we can fight for and thanks to it, and overcome everything for and thanks to it.

>>169477834
Fuck off Michel

>>169480863
>"Chloe's dumb"?
I mentioned in that post why I think they've had Chloe deaths in the game.

>And the universe trying to kill Chloe is better writing than "Chloe sure is stupid".
Again, there are other narrative purposes Chloe's deaths serve. Metaphorically establishing either Max's not-accepting, her denial (if we go with the idea she would have to accept it and move on from Chloe to "grow up"), or her fight, her power and willpower, the significance of their connection, that for Chloe, she takes on the entire universe, and that their love has her win that fight.

And raising stakes, giving us gameplay puzzles, maybe even showing that Max's continued usage of the powers causes the storm, and she continues to use it above all for Chloe.

>Nor does it mean another storm won't come if Chloe survives.
Storms will come, but not because of Max or Chloe. The narrative ends on that storm. In either its prevention, or their prevayal. Anything else is meaningless. But sure, maybe they will keep on fighting supernatural fights beyond the ending. It would only extend the meaning the story has for me, so while I consider it useless speculation and am quite sure it is not intention, I would not be strictly against that "it's not impossible" idea.

>The two are clearly entwined.
Yes, she is directly tied to Max, and the powers. Thus circumstantially tied to the storm. But it is not said her surviving is actually the cause.

>She still dies a lot more than I do in an average week.
So does Max. So does James Bond. This is a story. A story at that about a fail-safe superpower that makes Chloe, an already pretty reckless type, obviously even more. And one about an amateur investigation on a murder case of a deranged psycho kid and his obsession-turned-killing-spree sociopathic father figure. Her deaths are not in themselves significant. Certainly not Final Destination-significant. If the universe was trying to kill her, it would have looked different.

>>169480863
>So you think dontnod dedicated months worth of resources to the train section to illustrate nothing more than "Chloe's dumb"?
Just dumb? Or self-destructive and reckless? An extension of the type of behaviour that got her expelled perhaps, not considering or caring about long-term consequences.

Was their primary concern actually trying to show anything, or having an dramatic set piece with simplified adventure game-style problem solving?

Whatever the case, putting her foot on the points and lying down for an extended period is literally the worst way of using that scenario to show the universe is out to get her. It would have been far more effective to show Chloe just step on the track for an instant with the intent to cross it, and have the points throw at that precise time.

>>169480863
>There's a million better reasons for Max to use her powers than "Chloe's dumb".
Not all of her deaths equate to "Chloe's dumb".

Chloe's deaths:

Monday: 1; getting shot by an overaggressive insane boy on school premises. Sure, it was not strictly smart to push onto him, but I really cannot say getting revenge and being out for cash after what he did to her is not understandable, and she had no idea what kind of freak he was, let alone that he would bring a gun to school.

Tuesday: 2; playing with guns is really smart either, but it is soemthing that happens regularly in the US. That's pretty common teenage stupidity. And the shot that potentially gets her is an impossible riccochet - she did not handle the gun particularly stupidly. Lying on traintracks is stupid, but that she happened to be right at a switch point is not stupdity.

Wednesday: 0

Thursday: 1; she gets killed by a sociopath that is now on a killing spree. Sure, walking into that trap was dumb, but she was understandably emotionally compromised.

There are relatively few instance, there are countless situations in which they could have made her almost die, but didn't. It's really not a theme that I see beyond creating action and gameplay, tying Max's powers strictly and metaphorically to Chloe, establishing the theme that it is Chloe she is fighting for (or not accepting the death of). It's certainly not a Final Destination-type theme. And the idea that the implication, and let alone intention, was that she would keep dying, is just not in there. Again, the original intention was, on the contrary, that she even survives in the Sacrifice Chloe ending.

>>169482531
>That's a far more interesting interpretation when it's Max vs the universe as opposed to Max vs Chloe's stupid.
But it is Max vs. the universe. The universe does not have to be sentient for this, it's just scenarios that arise that she fights to prevent. These scenarios do not only arise from stupidity, but from danger of environment and other people. Certainly also from Chloe herself, her personal behaviour... but this plays into the theme that Max saves her from herself, makes her better, "heals" her form those behaviours to an extent. Hence she dies less and less, and in less and less "stupid" ways.

To me, it isn't that her deaths in themselves are significant or mean to say anything, anyway. I do not see a Final Destination scenario here where Chloe is marked for death, and will not see the implication that Chloe will keep dying. That has no meaning to the way I understand this story. It could have meaning in the way that it can be seen as Max fighting fate. But then, regardless, the ending to me represents winning that fight, whether it is against fate, the universe, just obstacles. Or that saving her is fate. In either case, the meaning comes from Max and her powers, from her fighting against everything for Chloe, them overcoming everything together, even death.

It is not impossible to think she is supposed to die, and even go on dying. Even if it's highly speculative and I don't see it or what its meaning would be, I would then only say "So what? Max keeps on saving her; it is merely an extension and continuing of the meaning the story already has". But I just don't think it was their intention for her to be supposed to die. For that, there are too little, too sensible, increasingly fewer and more "sensible" deaths, alternate timelines in which she doesn't almost-die, others in which she actually dies and the storm still comes, there was the intention to have her survive in both endings, there were more almost-deaths that were cut...

>>169415619
Strange to think that the "Greasy Spoon Diner" is such an American thing. I hear Europeans have us beat for pubs though.

But I'm lucky. I live in an area with a lot of fishing history, so I have comfy diners and good pubs. East Coast best coast.

>>169408449
hot

>>169446534
See my way of thinking about it doesn't involve whether I'm connected with Chloe but whether Max was connected to her or not.

>>169483556
Dude beer LMAO

>>169484009

L M A O
M
A
O

Couldn't agree more my man :^)

Chloe likes beer.

>>169484180
You do realize that "Dude, beer, LMAO" is sarcastic?

Chloe is a bit of a dudebro, though. She-Chad.

>>169484375
I know it was sarcastic I was just picking. Sarcastic shitposting is all I have.

>>169484464
It's okay, it's all anyone has on 4chan.

Chloe is pretty much, "Dude beer LMAO, dude guns LMAO, dude weed LMAO""

>>169484582
I think a lot of what Chloe does is a front for her deep seated hurt feelings. Rebellion for the sake of rebellion and putting on a strong face and all that jazz.

>>169481668
>she takes on the entire universe
In my interpretation she does. In yours she saves Chloe from her own incompetence.

>And raising stakes, giving us gameplay puzzles
It doesn't raise the stakes if the gameplay puzzles are entirely removed from the narrative. That's the equivalent of James Bond getting his jacket stuck in a car door in between shoot outs. It's pointless.

>The narrative ends on that storm
It ends on uncertainty.

>But it is not said her surviving is actually the cause
Nor does it say that her surviving wasn't the cause.

>So does Max
Because of her proximity to Chloe.

>So does James Bond
No he doesn't, what are you talking about?

>Her deaths are not in themselves significant
Death is one of most significant themes in the entire story, the final Choice is literally between the death of Chloe or the town.

>>169481979
>Or self-destructive and reckless?
No. Getting her foot stuck on the train tracks, to the point where she couldn't even remove her shoe to free herself goes far beyond self-destructive behavior, that's borderline stupid. Or the cosmos has it out for you.

>Was their primary concern actually trying to show anything, or having an dramatic set piece with simplified adventure game-style problem solving?
Both, equally. Games are hard to make, devs should always accomplish multiple things with any given mechanic.

>>169482531
You had to qualify all of those as being stupid, how does that not equate to "Chloe's dumb", ignoring any cosmic influence.

>There are relatively few instance,
"Relative" to what exactly? People who only die three times a week?

>>169484734
This. It's to make people (but really, herself), think she is tough and ok and doesn't need anyone. It's also too keep them at distance, because she is afraid of emotional proximity due to her abandonment issues. She also has obvious deeply hurt feelings, as you say, that her reckless behaviour is a coping behaviour of. Her recklessness and thrill-seeking is her vivid and lively personality, but also the striving to recapture a carelnessness and happiness of her younger years.

With Max, she lets that armor fall away, allows emotional and even romantical proximity, can't help but to. And does rekindle their childhood, recapture that careless joy and happiness, and finds that love she desperately craved for, finds also herself, a self-respect ultimately and self-worth, overcoming her abandonment complex also in this way, that she realizes people do care about her, that she is worth something, that people didn't leave her because they don't want to stick to her.

And all that jazz. We've obviously been into all of this often and way more extensively.

>>169484734
I know, I know. I don't actually think she's a shallow dudebro.

I think her circumstances turned her into a harder-hearted person, and an affinity for rougher aspects of life. It isn't a conscious facade, it's part of who she is, now, with her natural punk inclination amped up in rebellion.

She's a genuine punk, as shown in the AU with her posters of punk bands like Black Flag.

>>169483463
>but from danger of environment and other people
Environments she puts herself in and people she chooses to be around.

>alternate timelines in which she doesn't almost-die
The universe where Max can euthanize her.

>I would then only say "So what?
Because it makes Chloe look a lot less stupid, because the idea of Max vs the universe is more interesting when taken literally and not as a vague concept that you could apply to almost any romance story.

>But I just don't think it was their intention for her to be supposed to die
Then why make the last choice literally Chloe or the town?

>there was the intention to have her survive in both endings, there were more almost-deaths that were cut...
Unused concepts are hardly evidence for anything.

>>169484938
>she saves Chloe from her own incompetence
Not all of it is Chloe's "incompetence". And even then, her incompetence still expresses itself in relation to the universe, creating scenarios Max has to prevent. She doesn't go into Chloe's mind and changes her, she changes the universe.

>It's pointless.
They aren't removed from the narrative. I've pointed out there which narrative purposes her deaths serve. Besides, "action" is action for action's sake. It is pointless by nature. Its own point. Entertainment.

>It ends on uncertainty.
Very much not. There is an absolute certainty in both endings as a matter of their very narrative intentions. An acceptance. How can you accept something you are not sure of? Max accepts Chloe's death in one, and the storm, "leaving Arcadia", as the ultimate consequence in the other.

>Nor does it say that her surviving wasn't the cause.
So it's pure speculation based on nothing. There are things that outright go against the idea the storm is the universe throwing a hissy-fit because it wants Chloe dead. She dies, the storm comes. It's possible her death at that very point in time is essential... but that is one variable of a thousand others that are equally as speculatively sensible. Such as the butterfly's wing flaps, Nathan, the fire alarm, Max's powers in themselves.

>No he doesn't, what are you talking about?
James Bond is in fatal danger by definition, he almost-dies a lot more than the average person... because he isn't average. A supernatural time-travel murder-investigation is also not the average week for people.

>Death is one of most significant themes
What do her deaths mean in themselves? I do agree that the prevention of them has meaning (not being able to accept death, ultimately coming to accept it/fighting for and out of love, winning that fight), but death is not an end in itself, it's means to an end.

>>169485109
>I know, I know. I don't actually think she's a shallow dudebro.

I wasn't trying to insinuate that, just trying to elaborate why I feel she acts foolish sometimes.

>>169484938
>how does that not equate to "Chloe's dumb"
Because it establishes way more than to whatever extent her "dumbness" (recklessness, thrill-seeking, emotional hurt/explosiveness, etc.) plays into it. It works for the narrative of what it means to Max to prevent them, it works for themes such as the dangers of the (adult) world and dealing with them, it works for the theme of Chloe getting less "dumb" thanks to and for Max. If your idea is that the story can only establish either "Chloe's dumb" or "Chloe's supposed to die" with the theme of death, you are seeing fairly little in it. It uses her deaths for multiple things, and I'm sure that if it wanted to use them to say "the universe has it out for her", it would look very different.

>"Relative" to what exactly?
Final Destination, for one thing?

I'm not saying it's not noticably frequent, but it is also not as prevalent as people casually make it out, especially if we don't see optional deaths. The universe has it out for Chloe... but she survives a terrible car accident. The universe has it out for Chloe... but she survives the confrontation with an armed man looking to shank her. Hell, again, the universe has it out for her, but originally they wanted to have her survive even the original confrontation that started it all.

It's few instances relative to what it would take to make me believe she is marked for death.

It's not an impossible interpretation, but it has no meaning for me. The deaths have no compelling meaning, the idea that somehow, for some reason, some sort of sentient universe has it out for her is just not saying anything. Her deaths are only circumstantially, contextually significant, in what they mean to the main narrative of their relationship. At least for me.

>>169485313
>Environments she puts herself in and people she chooses to be around.
But not merely out of stupidity. At all.

>euthanize
...Which is literally doing something because "the universe" doesn't.

Does Chloe listen to angsty emo music while thinking of Rachel?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaR7cYTSkNQ

>>169485313
>Because it makes Chloe look a lot less stupid
Again, I really don't think it's really that she is shown as particularly stupid. It's other aspects of her personality that play into it, as well as behaviours that are more looking to cope, or rekindle, recapture something. Precisely showing that through Max in that week, she manages to rekindle and recapture it, manages to cope. Gets better.

> more interesting when taken literally
I will agree that Max literally fighting a sentient universe, a "fate" perhaps, could be a fitting edge to this supernatural romance story... But I take all that supernatural stuff as metaphorical, serving as narrative device and serving narrative purposes to convey meaning figuratively. Chloe's deaths, Max's powers that prevent them - a fight to hold on, a fight for what we care about, those we care about, for love. Not against actual sinister forces, but just "the world", any and all kinds of obstacles, from within and without, natural adversaries and adversities of life, like deranged or bad people, natural disasters, personal traumas on the past. Death just as the ultimate form of how "life gets us down", and not backing down, but winning even this fight, symbolically, establishing narratively the meaningfulness and powerfulness of that love through these figurative means, saying it makes us grow, strong, heal, overcome everything of those things from within and without, winning against all odds and obstacles and prevailing, attaining happiness, life. (Or the other (fatalistic, pessimistic, ...) ending: never having had the chance to win that fight, symbolically coming to accepting that we cannot win it).

>>169487127
This as a romantical, hopeful idea on life as we know it, that love can be that powerful and meaningful, that we can make a difference, stand up for ourselves and others and find ourselves and others in that, grow and heal and love and be happy (or a fatalistical, hopeless and bittersweet-at-best idea that we have to accept and learn to deal with the shit that happens in life, and can perhaps find happiness despite its inevitable, inconquerable cruelty)... not a supernatural odyssey that revolves around itself; it resolves around the characters, their humanity. Not their positions in a world that seemingly grants powers for no reason, seemingly wants some girl to die for no reason. Those are only figurative, significant only in what they mean on a human level, how it realtes to reality. Which is obviously a level where those powers do not exist, and where there's no sentient universe wanting specific people dead.

As I've said, I have no reason to strictly disagree with the idea that Chloe is "meant to die", in one way or another and even beyond the ending. That would, as you rightly say, only work to perhaps even more literally convey that meaning I see in it. But as it doesn't add any meaning, and is just not something I really see in the game nor the dev's intention, nor something that I like to think would happen, I don't entertain the idea of it.

>>169485590
>And even then, her incompetence still expresses itself in relation to the universe
What does this sentence mean? Incompetence is incompetence regardless of its relationship to the universe. You can't blame the universe for getting your foot stuck on the train tracks unless the universe is literally trying to kill you.

>It is pointless by nature
No it isn't. Regardless of any cosmic influence at the very least it shows that Max cares about Chloe. In my interpretation it shows Max is willing to oppose the universe for Chloe. The reason why action occurs is not pointless.

>An acceptance. How can you accept something you are not sure of?
Because you can accept uncertainty.

>So it's pure speculation based on nothing
Nothing except the fact the Chloe dies four times that week, the final choice, the amount of resources dedicated to the train section and the fact that Chloe is profoundly stupid taken outside of the context of universal blood lust. Just because that single point is moot doesn't invalidate the discussion.

>he almost-dies
Emphasis on the "almost", that's not a good comparison seeing as James doesn't have any time traveling powers. At least as far as we know.

>What do her deaths mean in themselves?
It ties into Chaos Theory and the concept of the world heading towards a state of dissonance. It creates more uncertainty that is a recurring theme. It conditions the player to care about Chloe's survival and reinforce the final decision. Or maybe it just shows that Chloe's stupid.

>>169482531
>Wednesday: 0
>>169483463
>I do not see a Final Destination scenario here where Chloe is marked for death, and will not see the implication that Chloe will keep dying.
>>169486212
>but she survives a terrible car accident.
>...Which is literally doing something because "the universe" doesn't.

You seem to forget here that even in the AU she is supposed to die no matter if you euthanize her ot not; her respiratory system is failing.

>>169487910
>You can't blame the universe for getting your foot stuck on the train tracks unless the universe is literally trying to kill you.
I am not talking about the deaths. I am talking about what Max fights against, and her literal fight is against the universe. She doesn't go back and tell Chloe "hey, let's not lie on traintracks", or "watch out, let's lie down a few meters away from that spot". She runs around, breaks open doors, rewinds and redirects the train, opens the traintracks, pulls Chloe out. She fights the universe.

Besides, Chloe simply did not notice that there was a switch there. That may be incautiousness, but not stupidity. She is in the moment, a romantical, sentimental moment with Max. She was distracted, with her mind somewhere else. Stupdity is teens that trainjump or dare themselves or each other to put their foot in a track switch.

>The reason why action occurs is not pointless.
I was specifically talking about "action" itself. As opposed to the deaths which I have now repeatedly explained are not ends in themselves and indeed are not pointless (which, again, chalking up their significance as "the universe wants her dead or she's dumb" would be), "action" is an end in itself. It's one of the reasons why they did have Chloe deaths in there. Actions is its own point: entertainment.

>Because you can accept uncertainty.
Which the ending is not at all about. It does make the statement either that Max can accept the death of Chloe, or the Arcadian catastrophe. One is suggestion of the certainty that she will cope with the loss of Chloe, the other that of the certainty that she will stick to her decisions and Chloe through this disaster. Any further speculation on the uncertain future does not have a place in those narrative messages.

>doesn't invalidate the discussion
I am not. I did say it's possible. And I have given plenty arguments in the context of this discussion why I think it is not such a blood lust.

Season 2 when?

>>169488812
2018.

>>169487910
The reoccurring theme is that Chloe will die if Max fails to intervene with her time powers.

>>169488731
>You seem to forget here that even in the AU she is supposed to die no matter if you euthanize her or not; her respiratory system is failing.

Exactly. Instead of a few moments of intense pain from trauma induced blood loss, she succumbs to a slow death predicated by regular intervals of severe discomfort. The universe switched her emotional dysregulation for physical pain.

That plays into the light Lovecraftian theme of a cruel universe, but in Howard Phillips' world it was uncaring. In LiS, the universe cares and wants to see Chloe suffer.

>>169487910
>that's not a good comparison
It wasn't about Bond, it was about the fact that we are dealing with a story where death or fatal danger is narrative device, not narrative in itself. It does not have to mean anything in itself ("Chloe's dumb or the universe wants her dead").

>It ties into Chaos Theory and the concept of the world heading towards a state of dissonance. It creates more uncertainty that is a recurring theme. It conditions the player to care about Chloe's survival and reinforce the final decision.
These are not meanings of the deaths in itself. These are their meaning in the context of the story and its narrative effect and functioning. Your idea that her death has to mean something in itself, means either that Chloe's dumb or the universe out for her, reduces them and takes them out of all narrative context. They do not have to mean either of those things in a story, and in this story, there's more to her dying that her being stupid or the universe having lust for her.

>>169488731
Yes, but in that AU, she survived a fatal accident. Her death is also not certain. It will come, as any death is certain. But it does not come in the story. She does not die, or even only almost-die in that AU. On the contrary, she survives a fatal accident by pure luck, a fortunate turn of the universe, that allows her to live on, love and be loved by her family, and ultimately Max.

I am not arguing against the idea that Chloe's death constitute a theme, it does have meaning and purpose. I am arguing against the idea that it is Final Destination, that the universe wants her dead, that the tornado is the universe's anger over her not-dying, and whatever.

>it works for themes such as the dangers of the (adult) world and dealing with them
Is that really a theme in the game? I'd argue that danger is just a product of the conflict found in most narratives. I don't see anything particularly "adult" about the danger in LiS.

>Final Destination, for one thing?
I'm not that familiar with final destination but I'm pretty sure everyone dies how they were intended to, and only once for that matter. There's near misses but it's more for the intention of building suspense. Wouldn't a final destination character having time travel powers look pretty much exactly like Chloe's situation? I wouldn't really know, never cared much for those movies.

>The universe has it out for Chloe... but she survives a terrible car accident. The universe has it out for Chloe... but she survives the confrontation with an armed man looking to shank her
Chloe almost dying a lot doesn't mitigate her actual deaths in any way, quite the opposite.

>the universe has it out for her, but originally they wanted to have her survive even the original confrontation that started it all.
Again, unused concepts aren't evidence for anything really. Besides, the fact that they chose to change it suggests that they decided her living didn't suit the narrative.

>The deaths have no compelling meaning
Only because of how you're choosing to view them.

>But not merely out of stupidity. At all.
Except for the train tracks, drinking while shooting, trying to rip off Nathan to run off to Los Angeles by herself with zero contacts.

>Which is literally doing something because "the universe" doesn't.
The universe wasn't being timely about it but it was going to happen.

>>169487127
>It's other aspects of her personality that play into it, as well as behaviours that are more looking to cope, or rekindle, recapture something
Surely those aspects of her personality manifest in ways other than getting her foot stuck in some train tracks.

>>169489010
>>169488812
or early 2019.

>>169489262
>that the tornado is the universe's anger over her not-dying, and whatever.

Why doesn't the tornado or the snow etc. happen when you let her die then?

>>169489349
>theme in the game?
One of them. I do think the danger of adult men preying on and exploiting women is an adult theme of an adult danger. This is the context in which Chloe dies in the bathroom and in the junkyard. Guns are a danger of the adult world too.

>I wouldn't really know
Neither would I. What I do know is that Final Destination is precisely about the absurd, counter-realistical way in which "death" seeks to manifest itself, and that "death" is its own end in the movie. Death is an actor, death is what the concept of those stories revolve all around. I cannot say the same for LiS.

>unused concepts aren't evidence
I agree (death of the author and all). But since they changed that concept very late into the release schedule (Episode 4), we cannot be intellectually blind to the fact that much of the story was written without Chloe's potential eventual death in mind.

>didn't suit the narrative
This is a good argument. I'm not sure why they did change it, or for what reasons they decided it doesn't fit the narrative, if they did think that. But I admit that it's a good argument. Doesn't convince me though. :p

>Only because of how you're choosing to view them.
I view them in a narrative context, where they do have meaning. I do not think they themselves have any compelling meaning. They do not have to mean Chloe's dumb or the universe sentient.

>train tracks
It's careless, but not strictly stupid. She had good reason to be there: a beautiful moment with Max away from the junkyard where Frank was assing about.

>drinking while shooting
Well, one light beer. It obviously wasn't the reason for the (impossible!) riccochet.

>rip off Nathan
Well, getting money from a drunk rich kid is not strictly stupid, especially if you are in debt...

Again, "stupdity" does play into it. But contextually, among other things, not to establish with the deaths her personality as "being dumb". But establishing other narrative themes, as well as other character traits.

>>169489349
>The universe wasn't being timely about it but it was going to happen.
We all die.

>Surely those aspects of her personality manifest in ways other than getting her foot stuck in some train tracks.
Yes, but they also play into it. For that specific instance, she was so in the moment of rekindling her childhood bond and recapturing that joy and carelessness of it, that she simply didn't watch out - hell, that she ignored fatal danger because she was so in the moment, flowing in this nostalgia and sentimentality. ...At least as part of why that almost-death came about.

>>169490314
>Why doesn't the tornado or the snow etc. happen when you let her die then?
It does. See Episode 5. Also: Why doesn't she almost-die in the SanFran timeline, then? She applies to community college and studies for the entry exams and all is well. Until the storm comes that the universe apparently throws because Max always prevents it from saving her from those (here non-existent) attempts to kill her...

Why it does not come in the sacrifice Chloe ending can have multiple reasons. All speculation. The game simply does not establush this, and more, as I've mentioned, in the actual explanation it does give, it does not tie Chloe to the storm. It ties the powers to it, and Chloe is obviously tied to the powers through Max.

>>169433123
nigga it was a good game but come on

>>169491323
But what?

My reaction is not uncommon in these threads, and this game, to me, is more than just good. I don't see why the intensity of my reaction is considered ridiculous, because I love art that can inspire such.

>>169488770
>Any further speculation on the uncertain future does not have a place in those narrative messages.
*on the uncertainty of the future
Obviously they are very much about the certainty of the future, look to convey with a certainty that either Max will be ok after Chloe's death, or with a certainty that Max and Chloe are going to be ok after the catastrophe, that they will move on together, stick together, deal and cope, heal and become whole, as they had done in the week.

>>169487127
>Death just as the ultimate form of how "life gets us down", and not backing down, but winning even this fight, symbolically, establishing narratively the meaningfulness and powerfulness of that love through these figurative means, saying it makes us grow, strong, heal, overcome everything of those things from within and without, winning against all odds and obstacles and prevailing, attaining happiness, life. (Or the other (fatalistic, pessimistic, ...) ending: never having had the chance to win that fight, symbolically coming to accepting that we cannot win it).
All of that works so much better when the universe itself is viewed as the ultimate obstacle to overcome.

>>169488770
>That may be incautiousness, but not stupidity
Funny how often incautiousness and stupidity coincide.

>One is suggestion of the certainty that she will cope with the loss of Chloe
There's no certainty in that, most people on this board believe Max will eventually take back her decision and save Chloe.

>The other that of the certainty that she will stick to her decisions and Chloe through this disaster
There's no certainty in that either. The resolution of a narrative does not equate to certainty in the characters, especially not here.

>it was about the fact that we are dealing with a story where death or fatal danger is narrative device
That's true of almost every story ever. Sure time travel can take liberates with killing characters, but I've never seen it to this extent with a deuteragonist.

>takes them out of all narrative context
Quite the opposite. A Bond villain dying is not indicative of chaos theory and the world heading towards a state of dissonance.

>>169492526
>All of that works so much better when the universe itself is viewed as the ultimate obstacle to overcome.
I don't think so. I do agree that it would be a more literal conception of the figurative meaning, but that would only serve to make the message clearer - at the cost of making it more relatable and translatable to real life. The obstacles Max overcomes are not literally the universe, a storm. They are metaphors. For obstacles in life, its natural adversaries and adversities. Such as bad people, natural disasters, emotional trauma of others and of yourself, facing and overcoming inner demons, coming to accept, embrace and love onself and others. And so on.

>most people on this board believe Max will eventually take back her decision and save Chloe.
But the intended message is that certainty. Dontnod explictily wanted to say she can be happy with this outcome. They made her smile that smile for that reason. I also think that's absurd, characterally, narratively simply paradoxical to me, her smile impossible... but it is the narrative sentiment dontnod wanted to convey in this ending, that she can accept Chloe's death at the end of the week, find peace with it, where she couldn't before.

>The resolution of a narrative does not equate to certainty in the characters, especially not here.
What? If you say Chloe will keep on dying, surely that's a narrative aspect that directly affects the characters. The narrative resolution here is precisely meant to convey a certain message for the characters, it is a character-centric narrative and its resolution for dontnod is first and fremost about their acceptance (of certainties).

Not about speculation as to uncertainties such as "Will Chloe keep dying?". (To which, again, my answer would then just be "What's it matter? They keep fighting and living, extending the story and its resolution's meaning and message into the indefinite.)

>>169490654
>This is the context in which Chloe dies in the bathroom
Not really, Nathan's her age. James Bond has guns too but I would say it explores adult themes. I don't really see it.

>death is what the concept of those stories revolve all around. I cannot say the same for LiS.
Not to the same extent as Final Destination, but the final choice is literally "death of town or girl."

>a beautiful moment with Max away from the junkyard where Frank was assing about.
The non-stupid thing would be to get out of walking distance from the drug dealer she ripped off.

>It obviously wasn't the reason for the (impossible!) riccochet
It's not imposable if the universe is out for you.

>getting money from a drunk rich kid is not strictly stupid
He wasn't drunk at the time, she was in debt because she ripped off a drug dealer, and Nathan Prescott is not your average rich kid.

>Again, "stupdity" does play into it.
If you can justify drinking while shooting, getting struck on the train tracks and ripping of a psycho rich kid to run away to Los Angeles as not being stupid then fine. I'll never agree with you on that.

>>169491060
>We all die.
We usually make to 20 though. You were trying to use the AU as evidence that the universe wasn't out for Chloe. A universe where she is quickly dying.

>flowing in this nostalgia and sentimentality
So it was just a coincidence that Chloe got stuck and not Max. That's some universally bad luck.

>>169492526
>That's true of almost every story ever.
And I think LiS is another story that uses death to develop characters and narrative, not to make statements about death itself, have it as a lone-standing theme that says anything in itself about the universe or the people. It's just another obstacle. Sure, a significant obstacle, one the narrative starts and ends on, it does make a lot of things about life/death (sometimes to its detriment), but it still does so in a context of using it to say something else, as far as I can see. I don't think they never cared much why exactly Chloe dies, whether she is "meant to". I certainly don't care for the reasons behind that, don't think it has to mean shes stupid, unlucky, a thorn in the universe's side. I just think it serves as something to fight against, meaningful as an obstacle.

>Quite the opposite.
Not the opposite, but I will give you that her death does fit into that sort of context more narratively coherently than a Bond death. I just never took LiS for this Chaos Theory, Butterfly Effect, Final Destination, Time Travel Sci-Fi story. More magical realism, highly figurative in some of its narrative instruments, looking to say more relatable things about life and the human condition. Rewind powers, Chloe's death, the storm, ... - metaphors that I appreciate first and foremost as symbols, sentimentally.

Other stances on it are possible. A lot of people take it more as an actual time travel pondering.

>>169493737
>Not really, Nathan's her age.
Yes, but the motivation behind that confrontation is an adult theme. It's needing money and exploiting women. Guns are definitely an adult theme, and here specifically used to portray dangers of the adult world and their confrontation with it. It shows reckless and hurtftul, deliberate and beneficial use of them. I would say there is the theme of confrontation with the "adult world" explored in the dangers, and how it plays into coming-of-age.

>It's not imposable if the universe is out for you.
This is actually the only instance I've ever actually described as "Final Destination-y". How convenient then for me that it is optional! Literally not-destination.

>I'll never agree with you on that.
That's fine. Again, some of the things are also pretty stupid. But not purely so, there's more to them, and even more to how they relate to Chloe's character. Not only establishing she's dumb.

>A universe where she is quickly dying.
In which she luckily survived a fatal accident to attain a deliberate death at the hands of a loved one. If the universe was out for her and Max's time-meddling upset it, it would have killed Chloe in this timeline so fast, and not give her a chance to attain an at least peaceful, bittersweet death after a life of having regained the love of her father, and even for Max to return and regaining that love. If it wanted Chloe dead, and was mad at Max for preventing it from doing so, it would have not created such a scenario. Chloe would have at best simply died in the accident.

>So it was just a coincidence that Chloe got stuck and not Max.
In other scenes, it is Max that is in danger, and Chloe even saves her. Life's not out for specific people, I don't think, and the game universes isn't either. It's not impossible to think so (for either life or game)... but I choose not to, and don't have any sufficiently compelling evidence or reason to want to.

>>169493942
>I don't think they never cared much why exactly Chloe dies
*ever cared much

>>169494737
>exploiting women

Didn't Chloe try to exploit Nathan's money? After she found out he may have assaulted her, a definite exploit on his behalf, there, though, she tries to blackmail him into giving her money.

Obviously the latter exploitation was justifiable, but the first is plain manipulation on her part.

>>169495113
Yes, I did say the adult theme is also "needing money". Which was her motivation to be around Nathan to begin with.

I was merely talking about the adult nature of some of the dangers in the game, some of them and the confrontation with them specifically resulting in fatal danger for Chloe (and others), not saying these adult dangers are strictly dangers from without (although I will say that Chloe needed money because Frank was on her ass about it, so even that motivation is more complex than simply wanting money - as that it extends obviously to the idea of leaving home behind, going into the world, another adult theme even though its meaning in the context of this story is more about the immaturity in that idea of hers).

>>169493287
>at the cost of making it more (less?) relatable and translatable to real life
I disagree. You were saying the universe was figuratively against them, similar to real life. But when conveyed in the literal sense it's more powerful because virtual worlds can manifest literally what is only felt emotionally. But that's just a matter of taste.

>that she can accept Chloe's death at the end of the week
You think we were never meant to question whether or not Max could be happy without Chloe? While also calling her smile paradoxical. I have my doubts about that.

>surely that's a narrative aspect that directly affects the characters
Yes. It affects them with uncertainty.

>is first and fremost about their acceptance (of certainties).
Certainly in uncertainly, that's it.

>"What's it matter?
Because you just said it's a narrative aspect that affects the characters.

>>169493942
>And I think LiS is another story that uses death to develop characters and narrative, not to make statements about death itself
If death isn't being explored as to how it affects characters then you're just watching a kill compilation. You can not explore death without exploring its affect on people. I've never claimed otherwise.

>More magical realism
That in no way changes the fact that Max's powers have some semblance of rules to abide by, as does the universe and its inhabitance

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>>169494737
>but the motivation behind that confrontation is an adult theme. It's needing money and exploiting women
I still don't see. If the characters didn't happen to be teens then you wouldn't call those adult themes. Same goes for guns. If you replaced every film noir with teens you wouldn't say they explored adult themes.

>Chloe would have at best simply died in the accident.
You're making a lot of assumptions there. And being parallelized from the neck down is hardly as dandy as you make it sound.

>In other scenes, it is Max that is in danger
Because of her proximity to Chloe.

Anyway it's seven AM for me debate-friend, sleep time. I'd enjoy continuing this later if you don't mind. (Sorry our last conversation got cut off my internet was down for a few days).

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Was Chloe saved? Yes.
Conclusion: She was meant to LIVE

Everything else is secondary to that. the simple fact Max got a power meant she got it for a reason or someone wanted to give her free reign to use it. But the moment she got that power heavily hints to the reason she got it in the first place.

Pres-cocks caused the storm!

>>169496525
>But that's just a matter of taste.
Perhaps... I think using the virtual world to manifest what is narratively also understood as analogies on the real world, rather than having this meta-awareness aspect of assuming the audience knows that the fictional story is by nature transfigurative and experiences/interprets it like that, fits a story like this better, where it's very authentic in both characters and world. Magical realism. Well, I guess that can be called a preference after all.

As I've agreed, it could work as a literal fight against the universe, as an actual opponent, and as such then a parable for life. I just think it works better as this, as a symbolical fight in the context of a realistical narrative that uses the super-realistical metaphorically and is narratively aware of that function (i. e. magical realism, where things don't have to be explained or make sense, as long as they translate into real life meaning).

>never meant to question whether or not Max could be happy without Chloe?
The smile was their answer to that question. It's the message they wanted to convey. It's not my answer, absolutely not. I never even ask myself the question, in as much as I don't see the endings as a comparison, but an unconditional dedication. But their intention with that ending seems clearly to have been that of acceptance and a joy in that acceptance.

Spanish Sahara might disagree though, and in that much, I would actually hope dontnod realized how impossible the notion of that ending is. But I don't think so. They genuinely tried to convey a hopeful sort of after-Chloe here.

>It affects them with uncertainty.
The opposite: Since the ending message is that they make it through all, as they have done all week and now once more, the certainty would be that they will also overcome whatever may come. Again, it's precisely about establishing the certainty of the meaningfulness and powerfulness of their bond, that it's above all obstacles.

>>169498385
Rachel summoned the storm! Rachel's revenge!

>>169498424
>Spanish Sahara
>A choir of furies in your head
>A choir of furies in your bed
>I'm the ghost in the back of your head
Dontnod's use of music is pretty significant, so considering Furies are female chthonic deities of vengeance. I'd say uncertainly was likely the idea being conveyed here. You're also extrapolating a lot from a single smile, a smile for a butterfly that probably reminded her of Chloe.

Anyway I really should get to bed, I think I just hallucinated a four foot tall mouse. At least I hope it was an hallucination.

>>169496525
>Because you just said it's a narrative aspect that affects the characters.
They've already been through all of that. Transcended time, tragedy, defied the universe, won their fight, prevailed, overcoming among other things also fatal danger and literal death. So any future of more deaths is not something that adds anything, not narratively or otherwise.

The answer this ending poses is that kingdoms can rise and fall, storms can come and go, death may await them at every corner, the future may be uncertain... but there is the certainty of their love, of having each other, and through that, living and thriving even despite all of that, overcoming that, growing above and beyond it. That's the certainty this ending means to conveys, ultimately, to conclude this narrative that had them fight, and then winning once and for all in the sense of having overcome the "final boss", which is storm, but really, themselves - their inner demons, Chloe's lack of self-worth and self-love and her abandonment complex, Max's insecurity and self-doubt and second-guessing of herself. They had been gradually overcoming them together throughout the week, gettng better, and in the end, they are confonted one final time.

There is no more osbtacle they couldn't overcome, now.

>I've never claimed otherwise.
Well, you said "death" must mean either Chloe is dumb or the universe out for her. I obviously don't think you are blind to all the ways in which death is used here and what it means in a narrative context, but it was you that took it out of its functional and character-narrative context. Why does it have to mean Chloe's dumb or the universe sentient? In a story, we can just say: we don't care why the death exists, we only care about its effect, on us, the characters, the narrative. And "kill compilation" is actually one of the ways in which it was used. To create action, tension. An "entertaining" experience (as in, compelling, engaging, etc.).

>>169498424
When I watched the Bay ending, Spanish Sahara heavily pushed me toward thinking that the message wasn't one of positivity or hope, that it was an expression of an injustice. I thought the devs were pushing an unavoidable tragedy scenario, as in Max would have to live with the suffering indefinitely, and Chloe's sacrifice was an injustice but "unavoidable" that would rage in her head evermore.

Chloe's death summoning a storm fic, when.

>>169499785
>In a story, we can just say: we don't care why the death exists, we only care about its effect, on us, the characters, the narrative.
Besides, again, there are definitely more things that play into the supposed "Whys" of Chloe's deaths than just the idea of stupidity or a sentient universe.

>>169496525
>That in no way changes the fact that Max's powers have some semblance of rules to abide by
But it does mean that if they are to change the rules, abandon them, or bend them, to fit the narrative intention and message, I can accept that. Appreciate it, even, that they are telling a story with meaning they take artistic freedoms to convey. I do think they didn't always succeed, and when setting out to tell a realistical story with figurative meaning, it is kind of bad writing to do so in the context of a setting and format they chose to begin with (>>169236806), it forces them to compromise the integrity of their work sometimes (structurally, logically, narratively, tonally, even compromise the characters and emotional effect), but I still prefer this type of narrative in general, that is most concerned with the sentimental message. And so likewise, I'm not so concerned with knowing why Chloe dies, whether the universe has it out for her or anything, how "death" fits into the narrative structurally. More concerned with the meaning of it, for the story, the characters, for me, the effect it has on them and me. That they throw themselves into each other after Max saves her and Chloe says "Now we are totally bonded for life" is important to me, the reason why she got stuck not so much. The death itself doesn't have to mean much of anything.

Sometimes that can be lazy (and life/death is sometimes lazily used in this game), but if I like the effect, the sentimentality, the things it does for the narrative and characters, I personally don't mind.

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IT'S FUTURE RUST AND IT'S FUTURE DUST

>>169499379
Rachel's good girl! (kind of)
She did (Somethings) wrong! But the storm was not one of them.

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What's with all the Bay posting. Balance dat shit out.
>Someday we will foresee obstacles...through the blizzard. Through the blizzard.

>>169501936
Her anger summoned the storm to destroy Jefferson.

>>169502208
I don't think the Bay posting is pro-bay. It's neutral bay posting.

>>169502884
Why post that fan ending though? It was a good try, but the real episode 5 would never take such a predictable, illogical, and silly approach.

>>169496705
>I still don't see.
This is a coming-of-age story, not a film noir. Adult themes are explored, and yes, money, guns, drugs, exploitation of women, leaving home, debt, bad relationships (Rachel) are adult themes, and they all do play into the dangers of the narrative. Also the fatal dangers, i. e. play into Chloe's deaths (and also those of others, such as Rachel and Kate).

>You're making a lot of assumptions there.
I am saying the simple conclusion of your assumption (the universe wants Chloe dead and the storm is its madness) doesn't match the game realities. If the universe was sentient, looking to kill Chloe, and mad at Max for opposing it, it would surely not allow Chloe to survive a terrible accident and Max to come back to her and give her a deliberate death.

I just can't see that this was their idea. I can see that maybe "fate" plays into it, the AU then being the ironic kind of fate, that she is particularly unlucky in this fictional world... but that is not what I appreciate in the story. I appreciate its authenticity and how it translates well into real life, natural, human themes. Where shit happens and life doesn't have it out for you, where Chloe gets better at not-dying by herself through healing, overcoming her issues and so on, fighting and beating her own demons and those that exist naturally in the world, together with Max, not because the universe lets off.

Though, again, I could appreciate it also as a fight against fate, or even "the universe", but not as much, and I just don't see that in the game. And would then still see the ending as the message of having won that fight.

Reminder that the Prescotts kidnapped Rachel and forced her to summon the storm to give the town a "fucking enema", and Rachel gave her powers to Max to save Chloe and/or the bay

>>169503524
>it would surely not allow Chloe to survive a terrible accident

Again, she isnt "surviving" she is dying an early death. She could have come out of the accident with just a broken leg or something minor as well, but she didn't.

>>169502669
He was going to be fine though. He was in an actual storm bunker. Under a bar, secure, stocked with food/water/medical supplies.
Jefferson, and his Prescott employers, knew something was coming.
Maybe Rachel was involved in the storm, but Sean & co. knew about it long before it came. Maybe >>169503565 is right and they knew Rachel had some kind of power (Though I don't think she could rewind time like Max could, I think she just had a connection to the land/nature)

>>169496705
>Because of her proximity to Chloe.
Not always. She is in even fatal danger more than once without Chloe there for it, and if anything, she overcomes them thanks to Chloe. The Dark Room, the fight through the storm to the Diner - all thanks to her strength, willpower and determination to save Chloe. Other times, Chloe is there for it, but is the one that saves her. In yet others, other people are in fatal danger: Kate that she was to rewind twice lest she jumps, Victoria, Nathan, Frank, David dies as much as Chloe did in the week in the matter of a few minutes... I don't think this game universe has it out for anyone in particular. These deaths don't make a statement in themselves I don't think. They are only meaningful in context, and while there's multiple things that leads to them, the narrative focus is really on how we deal with them, their effect on the characters and us. Chloe's deaths specifically above all as driving home the point that Max literally saves her, heals her, cares so much about her, how their bond transcends death, deliberately using this theme of mortality, of impermanence, as an obstacle they literally overcome to say their love is figuratively timeless, immortal (well, or, in the other interpretation, using its inevitability to say we have to accept it and fighting it is futile, "childish" denial).

>I'd enjoy continuing this later if you don't mind.
I left you with a lot of shit to read through and respond to, lol. Don't mind if you don't, hope you are sleeping well.

>>169504007
And she couldn't have had an accident at all, either. The point remains that if the universe was literally out to kill Chloe, it would just kill her. They could have absolutely written an AU where she's dead, and instead of meeting her, we visit her parents and learn about it all. Not saying that would be better, but surviving a terrible car accident is if anything something that would make me believe "the universe" wants her to survive.

>>169504408
That sound extremely retarded.

They cut the lines out, so they aren't in the canon. There is no evidence to suggest Jefferson knew; he had a storm bunker renovated into a darkroom under the Prescott payroll.

The whole convoluted presumptuous conclusion that they knew Rachel could summon the storm, is ridiculous. Jefferson wanted to photograph Rachel, Nathan overdosed her by mistake, and then she summoned the storm in rage.

It's bullshit headcanon thinking to say that Rachel had a supposed connection to the land.

>>169500554
Perhaps. The devs did put that smile in, and they have stated again and again that the foremost message they wanted to convey was an acceptance, a moving on, and that as an inherently hopeful and positive notion. They certainly didn't manage to tell that story, it is not that story, the only suffering-to-coping "narrative" we have is literally the few minutes of her terrible, unbelievable desperation and suffering in the bathroom, to that curious smile a few moments later (an instant, from her perspective)... but I do think it's clear this was the intended message: the certainty of either being able to accept and cope with Chloe's death, or the certainty of being able to accept and cope with Arcadia's ruin, that of sticking together through all, being happy together despite it all, loving each other abive all, yadda.

>>169505276
As it is to say Max caused the storm because nothing proves it.
There's a lot more evidence that disproves it. With how much is unexplained there are numerous variables that could be attributed to the storm.

>>169505276
*to the land that the Prescotts knew about.

>>169505379
I don't think Max caused the storm!

>>169505569
Oh okay. Sorry, misread the point there and jumped the gun. D:

I think Rachel was a normal girl. But when she died she attained a new status that tied her to the land. There's some small hints she's tied to the natives and then there what whatever bloodoath Frank took for her, which she could have taken as well since those are usually mutual.
Maybe it ensured that when she died she became a guardian of the area and gained some control over the weather, which when she died accidentally created the storm (Kind of like how Max's first use of the her power moved her backwards. Rookie mistake from the shock and emotions felt).
It's why Rachel can appear as the doe, and I would also think she could change her form and possibly appear as a spirit of herself once her identity was discovered.

>>169499392
Remember, I am not saying the ending actually portrays such a hopeful and positive notion. I am the last one to say that. It is the absolute opposite to me, and an impossible notion.

But I am talking to dontnod's intentions. And they did put a smile in there. They do say it's about acceptance, and I'm quite sure they do think this is ends on a positive note. They are definitely aware of the tragical and bittersweet nature of it, but especially with regards to Max the idea seems to be that she is better off here than she would have been had she never developed that power. Obviously they must think that, or else they understand themselves as torturers of their characters and their audience. And all Michelmeming aside, I really don't believe they embrace this cruelty of their story. I would doubt they are even just aware of the extreme cruelty I see in that ending.

But I did bring it up with the suggestion and hope that, perhaps, they do indeed realize the madness of this ending. And anyway, I too hope you don't have Mickey Mouse in your room. That would be one of those fatal dangers of the adult world...

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So if Max goes back and saves Rachel, that means no storm! And Chloe gets to keep her friend while Max gains another!
It all makes sense!

>>169506137
I actually agree with that.

I also think Max had inherent dormant powers, powers that were awakened at a time of heightened emotion.

I agree that she attained these powers upon death, a connection to the land, and her unsolved, unjust murder and pity for Chloe summoned a storm.

Max did nothing wrong.

>>169506872
Damn it now I wish I got to see this play out. So much better than the "explanation" in the game.

>>169506934
Truth.

Life is Strange is that kind of game which the fans knows what's going on more than the devs.

>>169507446
Well, I didn't care too much about the mystery element; I was invested primarily in the relationship between Max and Chloe. Only, the relationship between Max and Chloe was affected by the mystery/supernatural elements, and the relationship was pitted against the logic of the mystery/supernatural elements, so having a more solid foundation for the plot would have better enriched the character conflict.

>>169508426
The focus of the game is definitely on Max and Chloe and them reuniting and growing.
Which is why it's ridiculous that at the end they shift all the focus onto the supernatural elements, which were underdeveloped. Asking the player to give up everything Max worked for because they decided to dump all the blame onto her without giving any reason to believe it.
It's perhaps the single biggest reason why Polarized is bad, it drops everything that made the game good in the first place and makes it all boil own to some (allegedly) unavoidable trolley problem.

>>169509320
I also think Max came to the conclusion way too quickly, uncharacteristically, too.

She had many unsolved questions due to not being omnipotent, or relying on outsider information, until she had a slight indication by an uncertain Warren, and suddenly that was the dillema.

>>169509916
And that's why Max will always pick to save Chloe.
It's never dilemma to her, she knew where her priorities were.
The fact she doesn't know if she caused anything means she and Chloe can fine peace in those unknowns. They know they tried what they could and that's all that could have ever been asked of them.

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>Dad walks in

>>169510940
>Mom walks in

That's less creepy.

>>169511147
William is not creep!

>>169511284
Is he another spirit wandering around? I would have hoped he found peace and is able to rest.

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>>169510940
>Dad walks out

>>169508426
In some respects, the vagueness and ambiguity works in favour of the main, character-centric narrative (the powers, the adversities, Rachel - these are narratively important and meaningful for the characters without giving them a more solid foundation, sometimes precisely because of it), but in others, it very much does not (we are emotionally invested and connected to these characters, yet their fate is tied to circumstances that are not only unrelatable, they are not even made more relatable in the context of the story because not even the characters know what is going on).

I mean, if their intention in fact was to emotionally torture people with the finale, this could be a deliberate disparity, but I think it was mostly bad writing, as in not being able to coherently arrive at the point they wanted to arrive at and alienating the narrative in the process of arriving there. I can tolerate that, as I've mentioned earlier, but the least they could have done is committed: is the supernatural stuff a narrative actuality (it is: they use it to create the tragedy, but then fail to have the characters deal with the tragedy properly, leaving the audience perplexed and needing for closure), or is it about the characters (then they would have made it so the storm dissipates in Bae, and Chloe survives in Bay, highlighting with that clearly that it was about the characters and their development, about where they arrive, not the world, the supernatural merely a vessel, a vehicle to bring them there).

/lisg/!

Can you give me one cutepost for each of these sad images (http://palomens.tumblr.com/post/157746985810)?

That's six cuteposts!

>>169506415
>Chloe chooses Rachel over Max

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"This is Max! She's my best friend and my girlfriend and she's hella cute and I love her so much!"

>>169513212
That fucking dillema would be more interesting.

>>169513212
Not a chance. Chloe wouldn't do it once she learns the full truth about Rachel, and Rachel would never do it because she does not love Chloe in that way.
If anything, Rachel would push Max and Chloe together.

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>>169513212
I'm sure they'd all get along swimmingly together.

I feel like Rachel was a bad influence on Chloe.

>>169513394
unrequited love can keep a person hostage just as much as a relationship.
Chloe's feelings for Rachel already stop her from trying much with Max while she is died to death

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What does this poster mean?

>>169514583
It's a Halloween night, where the girls stream horror movies twice a week.

The bi-friendly is a joke, I think. It's also probably quite affectionate, close, and might involve drunk fooling around if they're into it.

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>>169513324
It's not a dilemma at all.

>>169513394
That, and Chloe didn't love Rachel in the way she loves Max. She had years with Rachel, crushing on her, but nothing ever coming of it... but days with Max, after a traumatic five-year separation, and their love blossomed in those days.

She always chose Max, she just didn't completely understand that before the week. And vice versa. Their reunion and love is the purpose of the story and its world; Rachel is a theme, a building piece and catalyst in their reunion and romance, and something very much fulfiling its narrative purpose as being buried.

>>169514127
I don't think her feelings for Rachel affected those for Max at all. She flirts with Max, and that even though they had only been back together for days, and were actually searching for Rachel. She outright says she is not Rachel's groupie as part of that flirting. Says that she hadn't laughed in years like she did with Max, she says she loves Max, offers to sacrifice herself for her, hell, she starts to cope with the terrible discovery of Rachel within the short time she has with Max, a crucial moment being where her anger over that discovery is washed away by concern and caring for Max. She had no problems declaring her love for Max one day after that discovery, no problems even kissing her then. Because "finding Rachel" was precisely about overcoming her.

Her relationship with Rachel was something different altogether, and as far as I understand it, highlights precisely why it never could have been, and why her relationship with Max always had to be.

>>169513676
A good bad influence. She's taught her the word "hella", for one thing!

Besides, I do think she saved her. From hard drugs, more self-destruction, from perhaps fleeing into herself and a state of sadness that could have maybe actually broken her irreparably. For an obvious example by ways of suicide.

>>169513212
>implying Rachel doesn't choose Max
She loves cucking Chloe.

>>169514583
>Dana confirmed into grills, if Trevor doesn't work out.

>>169516896
Do you think, when Chloe said she "had a boy toy phase... among other things," she was talking about fooling around with girls... Possibly Dana at Blackwell?

>>169517691
D-Do you think all the girls messed around with each other? I-is that what girls do?

>you will never play Overwatch with Brooke

>>169517691
I for one think so.

But not with Dana. Dana's straight, secure.

That said, she was probably playing it all up. It was perhaps once or twice, with... someone like Victoria? That could be a funny thought. Drunk at a Vortex party Rachel dragged her to, something both Chloe and Victoria regret and want to forget because they could not be a worse match and Victoria is insecure anyway, including about her sexuality. And Chloe was obviously into Rachel, probably only making out at all because she was frustrated that Rachel had left her sitting in the VIP area alone again, off to get stuff from Frank...

>>169518473
I am actually a grill... and I am gay, and I have to say, "I wish".

No, most don't, most straight women don't fool around with each other, and even though experimentation is more common,it's extremely nerve-racking to confess feelings for friends because most of the time it's not reciprocal, and they can become homophobic and end the friendship.

>>169518834
Dana could be bi.

I can't see Victoria and Chloe making out. It was probably at a shitty bar, somewhere, like where she met Nathan. Another random punk girl like her with sapphic affiliations.

Where was that bar, anyway? Out of town?

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>>169511538

>>169519063
>tell a girl I am gay
>immediately assumes I am in love with her
Straight women are the worst anyways

>>169520942
Calm down, Chloe. You can't be angry at Rachel forever.

Seriously, though, it can be hard keeping straight female friends because I inevitably crush on them due to that unavailableness.

>>169520282
I don't see anything bi about Dana... but I guess that poster could be hers.

And well, it's funny precisely because it's hard to see them make out. Just two drunk, confused, frustrated women seeing each other's lips in the red light of a Vortex party. ...I just don't think Chloe would have been socially active outside of Rachel, going to bars and whatnot, so a drunken Vortex party makeout or two is more what I think constitutes her "among other things". But who knows. Nobody, that's right.

The bar's location is never actually referenced I don't think. I'd assume it's on the outskirts of Arcadia.

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>tfw Pricebowers will never be a thing

>>169522142
I refuse to believe this fucker has a 4.0 GPA.

>>169521690
Chloe isn't into guys.

>>169522918
she's into Jefferson

>>169521442
The main reason for assuming the poster is Dana's is that she's mad into Halloween. She won't shut up about everyone dressing up, decorating the place, etc. Further if you take the tone of the note and consider only the girls in Max's dorm, it feels most likely to have been the bubbly cheerleader who wrote it: it's too flirtatious for the shy/introverted girls like Kate, and not really the style of Victoria's posse.

Yeah Dana doesn't look particularly bi; then again what does a not-strictly-straight girl look like? Some might suggest that you check for dyed hair, a loose singlet that showcases their bra (particularly from the sides) and whether they drive a pickup truck, but that kind-of feels like stereotyping to me.

>>169522503
He's eating Mrs Grant's ass for grades. It's the only explanation that makes sense.

>>169523095
To tease Max, and because she hadn't committed to Max, yet.

>>169523291
Most bi people don't look bi. That's a pretty gross thing to say about sexuality, and appearances, you cisheteronormative scum.

Seriously though, it's pretty gross.

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>>169523291
Yeah, it does make sense to assume it's hers.

I don't know what a not-strictly-straight girl looks like, but Dana has not only been pregnant, she's already hooking up with another guy... There's just nothing about her or her room that strikes me as bi. But I don't know! I don't even know if I would "like" her bi or not. I've always seen her as the mature and down-to-earth "mother" of the dorms, so having a sexual/romantical interest in the girls seems weird to me with that image in mind. But that's just me. Her boobs are definitely too nice to be reserved for guys...

>>169523494
That actually made me laugh. Fucker.

>>169523856
Ree! Of course she had committed. She even called herself Max's date.

They were always committed, in their hearts...

Chloe definitely didn't genuinely flirt with Jefferson. She had half-forgotten him the evening of the same day.

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>>169523494
>It's the only explanation that makes sense.

Actually...

>>169524353
What? You can't be a mother and be bi? Nigger, have I stumbled on /pol/?

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>>169522918

>>169524492
Oh, God.

What if, like, Jefferson and Nathan with photography, Grant and Warren have a secret lab to test humans on?

>>169524736
Old condoms, from years ago. Also, dental-gam improvisation or finger-condoms.

>>169524679
If you are referring to the pregnant part: I just don't think taking a fictional character that gets herself pregant from some asshole and aborts, i. e. has a very bad experience with a guy, and then goes for the next guy, as also into girls, is reasonable. But again, the flyer could be hers, and that could be one thing to take to say she is.

If you referring to the "mother of the dorms" thing: She is a motherly presence for the other girls (again, in my mind), so that's how I wouldn't like to imagine her as into the girls non-platonically.

And "nigger" is more /pol/ than my (self-admittedly) uneducated ideas on bi women!

>>169525112
This. When do you think has Chloe last taken the bus? She's had her truck for a while. This is absolutely leftover shit from years ago in her pockets!

I mean, she actually says Rachel saved her from the boys, that she's not into the guys around there. She says this twice.

>>169524232
hence 'kind-of feels like stereotyping'

>>169526637
>Max gets literally every girl in the dorm