/acg/ - Armored Core General: AC6 Hopefully Soon Edition

evenin'

Stay alive acg

>>162608919
evening

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I'll try and remember to bump but i'm playing the new Dota 2 update and it's fun as fuck.

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>>162614804
>VISAGE BIRDS MOVING AT THE SPEED OF AALIYAH FRAMES

WE LITERALL ACFA NOW

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>>162615639
500% walrus punch.

No idea if you guys know about this guy, but he's been doing 8bit arrangements of AC songs, and they're pretty damn cool.

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm30176578

>>162621814
I listened to one of them when ranker posted it in the last thread.

Boxy, spiky, or sleek?

>>162628525
Sleek.

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>>162628525
boxy

>>162635446
THIS ORBITAL FRAME LOOKIN ASS

Well, /vg/ seems to be calming down a little.
>>162628525
Depends on the spikes.

So, I tried installing mechwarrior 3 and 4, and my computer constantly kept blowing up on me, just one error after another. It's very unfortunate, as I had heard good things about it. Gonna be quite a while before I figure it out.

oh well. Back to Armored Core.

>>162600396
>Armored Core General
Dead game general?
Jokes aside, why though for real? Is there a title upcoming? Was there a new one recently? Which game do you fucks even play? I love Armored Core don't leave me in the dark you dirty mechaniggers

Just a head's up guys. I might not be here for a bit. My power could go out due to a past bill, and work hasn't been kind lately.

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>>162703606
F

>>162703098
We're as dead as it looks, we're just too stubborn to die.

AC6 was recently "confirmed" in interviews, as in From said that they would make another AC eventually. There hasn't been any actual news or announcements though.

>>162703098
Yes.
Because.
Looks like it.
Kind of.
Verdict Day happens every now and again. Sometimes For Answer happens on Sundays.

How does stability work in 4/FA?

>>162628525
Boxy or sleek. No spiky unless they're alien robots you are intended to destroy.

>>162703098
Newest game was 2013. People still play it, even though the servers are region locked. JP server is active, INT server requires having friends and networking because the matchmaking system makes it really hard to get a match, even when people are online. Tournaments are held, people post youtube videos, there's an active community still but it's not as good as it was 6, 12, or 18 months ago.

People still play the 4th gen games (2008) online too, and fight clubs are held every now and then.

And someone set up PC multiplayer on one of the older games (Last Raven, 2005) recently too.

/acg/ is more dead than the series is. There's still plenty of players (probably ~150 a week on the PS3 side, about 25 of which are actually active) but all it takes for the thread to die is ~5 hours without a post in early mornings when EU and NA is still asleep.

>>162710446
Same as in NX-LR. It's a flat value with stagger breakpoints. If your stability is higher than a weapon's impact, you won't suffer stagger from firing a cannon or being hit by a weapon. Stagger is basically a 1-2 second window where your AC is stunned mid-air and you can't do anything.

>>162703098
About 30% of the threads hit bump limit, when that happens there's about ~50 unique posters. It seems more dead than it is because they're not online at the same time, reddit or discord is still where most of the AC community hangs out, mostly because of big split caused by 4th and 5th gen where some longtime players decided they would rather stop participating altogether than try out a new formula. /acg/ tends to favor 4th gen, reddit heavily favors 5th gen.

>>162712753

I wish we could all settle our differences and enjoy each game for what it is, though I understand the risk of turning /acg/ into a gay hugbox with no dissenting opinions allowed, so I'm definitely torn on what we should do.

>>162712753
>>162714537
Where did this divisive mentality randomly come from? We discuss every AC game here, I've never seen people collectively hating on one gen over another. There's usually actual productive discussion when someone has negative opinions on a game. Do we even browse the same /acg/?

>>162715515
He may be confusing /acg/ and /v/, because while here we accept and love all gens as expected of knowledgeable AC fans, most /v/ posters despise 5th gen and think 4th is the pinnacle of the series.
I haven't been to reddit's AC board so I have no idea what they like.

>>162717842
How the hell does the barren, poisoned earth support such a large population of flamingos?

>>162712456
You could already go hours without finding a CQ match on International in mid-2014.
I don't even want to imagine what it's like now.

>>162712753
>/acg/ tends to favor 4th gen
Nigga you wh
>>162720023
>He may be confusing /acg/ and /v/
Yeah, there we go. You get it.
Anyway, I'll continue this post in a bit because right now we're, like, second from the bottom of page 10.

>>162715515
Anon is right. The divisiveness isn't particularly strong over here because the ones with the strongest opinions on the subject also have very strong opinions on /vg/ and thus never come over here.
There's also a part of the story that's being left out. Armored Core has been a very divisive series for quite some time. As far as I'm aware, this started with Nexus, which changed 3's formula just enough that it set people off in a fierce way. Of particular notice were booster heat and it really was a little too high in Nexus, but it was still an important balancing factor, the machine gun nerf I will never understand why they also hit chainguns and slug guns with the magazine thing, and the removal of OP-I. To this day, some of the old guard swears up and down that Nexus absolutely and irrevocably killed Armored Core. They started to lose traction when it turned out that Ninebreaker was a pretty good tournament game and a lot of them were drowned out when Last Raven came around.
Anyway, then 4 came along and Armored Core was dead again. Of course, plenty of people played it, but to the veterans who had stuck through the entire series, it was too much change and they didn't want to have anything to do with that, so Armored Core was dead. For Answer dropped and gained significant traction with people who had either never heard of Armored Core or maybe played 2's demo on that one demo disc everybody seemed to have and thought it was kind of cool. And let's face it, the control was much better than 4. Those old standbys were still balking about the death of Armored Core, but FA was being played a lot
Then came V and everything went to hell.

>>162734240
So now we have the old guard, who are just as staunch as ever, but in addition to that we have loads of people who were brought in by FA now declaring that V is nothing like what Armored Core should be and that AC is now dead. Lines are drawn in the sand, V's conquest mode flops in a spectacular fashion, and the cherry on top is the way Namco bungles the management of V. After all, nothing says, "dead series is dead" quite like the publisher doing nothing to support the game. Now, VD managed to bring some people back in, but at the end of the day, nobody is really budging on the whole "Armored Core is dead" thing. After all, change is bad and [GAME] was the perfect Armored Core game and they never should have strayed from [GAME]'s formula.
Also worth noting is that it's much easier to sit around and whine than it is to give a game an earnest chance.
>>162714537
The risk is overstated. There's no reason settling our differences and dissenting opinions have to be mutually exclusive. That's just the refrain of people who aren't interested in discussion in the first place.

>>162721359
One last safe heaven for flamingos?

>>162720023
>I haven't been to reddit's AC board so I have no idea what they like.

It's mostly one or two people spamming Twitter retweets from the JP community, and episodes of Lets Play type things.

>Intelligence Union
huehuehue
Man, Heavy Object would be a lot better if the lead pilot girl had some personality.

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>>162745854
The girls are just there to be waifu and haremfag bait, the clear focus is on the guys.

>>162722584
That's my point, if you just rely on CQ or matchmaking then you're fucked. You have to plan ahead and network with people and set up fights ahead of time, you know, like how it used to work before everyone relied on matchmaking.

JP is still active for CQ matchmaking as long as you're not playing during JP working hours.

>>162732403
Yeah, I was talking maybe more about /v/.

You guys do post more 4th gen memes and lore than you do 5th gen, though.

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God I can't wait for the next FM game and Battletech. I got a mech boner because of Battletech coming out next year.

>>162752965
I've gone hours without matches outside of JP dead times as well.
You know it's time to jump ship when the core feature the game is built around becomes unusable.

>>162753076
5th gen doesn't have any memes or lore worth posting though. I can't even name any characters from gen V that weren't a part of the main story.

>>162753076
>You guys do post more 4th gen memes and lore than you do 5th gen, though.


I will say that is because 5 doesnt have many small details like 4 gen had, or some extra info about everthing, also the plots, in both 5 and VD, were more like "mercenary slice of life" that at worst just fought some evil group withouth anyone noticing it; also the lack of cooporations and they manufacturing parts, to talk even what company is best just by their parts or something.

>>162753076

In all fairness, I try to post about plenty of genres. But currently I'm obsessed with replaying through the first 3 ACs, so I don't have time for memes.

>>162785490
>I don't have time for memes.
>memes

do we really have memes? at least in the modern way of popular jokes?

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>>162785663

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>>162785663
I think we have a few memes.

I want to see someone record a playthrough of Last Raven and beat a path using only the base AC setup you get at the start of the game.

>>162804903

What kinda sadist would do that?

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>>162806237
Me.

>>162742679
Too good for this world, too pure.

>>162798474
What was his fucking deal, and why did nobody kill him sooner? Did Malzel and Thermidor just fucking ignore his genocidal tendencies?

Anyone get a weird error when trying to access the catalog for 4chan?

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>>162808246
I think he hid his powerlevel while he was in ORCA.

>>162808941
Yeah, but it goes away for me. Fucking nipMoot.

>>162809286
But surely they must have all heard about Liliana beforehand.

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Press F to pay respects

>>162753076
4th gen has a lot more going on in the background
5th gen is very straightforward in its story telling and the most interesting things in its lore are its connections to 4th gen (and the other gens to a lesser degree). Maggy's character arc was great but there's not much else to 5th gen characters.

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>>162813376
Pretty much this. Do you actually remember any of the enemy AC pilots from the V era other than the major story NPCs like Maggie and Chief? Of course not, because they were either recurring important characters, or they were Literally Who with no dialogue, no background, and no relevance to anything.

Meanwhile, 4 era has weird shit like Shinkai where the dude only has two or three lines of dialogue between both games, yet has a deeper character arc than the entirety of ACV's cast combined.

It's hard to really pinpoint what exactly it is that separates the two gens story wise. I think it's just bad directing on the V era.

>>162804903
That's possible. Leviathan path isn't very difficult, the hardest part is not running out of ammo since the base AC is too slow to really chase people down, so you waste a lot of missiles and shots.

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>>162814596
I wish I had a senpai as kool as Shinkai.

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>>162815069
Shinkai wishes he still had a senpai

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>>162818176
T R U E D E S P A I R

>>162814596
There were the Beehive guys in V
The squid family in VD stands out, as do Iron Rose & Aegis. The Iron Path guys weren't as memorable as Beehive though.

:Let there be peace in the world.

It's distressing how fast /vg/ is today.

>>162846784

Blame DOTA2 general. Theyre complaining about the new update and pushing everyone off the front.

>>162822575
>There were the Beehive guys in V
What was so interesting about them? Okay, they want "peace" in the world. Who are they affiliated with? What have their actions actually done to affect the story? What does a Bee being in a certain location during a mission actually imply on the story? Who were the pilots, why were they part of Beehive, what were their motivations and character arcs? What did any of them add to the narrative or the world building?

Even the most Literally Who characters in 4/FA manage to answer the above questions. Nobody in V/VD can unless they're major characters who appear in multiple cutscenes.

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>>162848432
That can't be all there is to it, they're keeping up one thread at a time and one thread can't push /vg/ to an archive time of just over an hour by itself unless they're making a new thread every five minutes or so.
>>162851378
The fact that they're cultists based on insects.
The cult.
They're all over the place, which means their creepy religion is proliferating like mad in a post-Father world. Or region. Whatever, VD made the map complicated.
It shows that they hold sway in a region and have forces stationed ready to stop the PC.
They're cultists. They gave up things like personality to bring peace to the world.
Same bit about the proliferation of the religion.

On the other hand, FA's most iconic character can't appreciably answer all of those questions.
Everybody's favorite hireable can only appreciably answer one of them because she's with GA and there's literally nothing else about her except that she likes smiles.
Everybody's second favorite hireable can only tick two of those off because the game doesn't tell us anything about who Celebrity Ash is or why Moro likes him so much.
And that's disregarding folks like Mrs. Theresia, that guy with the Koji blade, Wis and Yei, that African guy, and almost every arena-only character. Basically, the only pilots in For Answer that can get anywhere with your list of questions are the ones from ORCA (minus Hari) and the ones that hang out in the Collared Teamspeak.

>>162867321
Yeah I guess you're right, I don't know how to realy make the point I'm trying to get across. I just can't bring myself to care about anything in V or VD, while the most insignificant details in 4/FA are extremely interesting to me.

Celebrity Ash is far more interesting than any of the random shitters who appear in V or VD and it's really hard for me to explain why.

>>162869117
I think it's because the characters they tried to flesh out in FA actually got some work put into them whereas in V and VD, it seems like they drew some quirks out of a hat. Some of the quirks are great, but it's like they didn't really put a lot of effort into them.
At least I think that's what you're going for. I'm in the same boat as you, honestly.
>>162747419
I get that, and the guys are great, but man, it would be at least ten times better if Commander Weaboo was the one piloting the Object. She's actually funny.

>>162857020
Those feet are even uglier than the Lahire's high heels.

>>162857020
>Interior is French and Italians
>Aldra is Germans
>Torus is Scandinavians and whatever the hell GA Europe was

Never realized that the entire group was centered around one continent before.

>>162808246
He did it because it was funny

>>162812353
WAN HANDRED MILLION

>>162869117

>Celebrity Ash

Stop pushing this meme. He's a coward who always runs away from everything.

>fights lancrab
>"eyy let's do this man"
>he breaks a nail
>"OMG I GOTTA GO!"
>"YOU GO TOO, IT'S SUICIDE! I MIGHT NEED A MANICURE!"

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>>162891071
What meme? That's exactly what I like about him. In a series full of edgelords and tryhards, we have a manchild who's obsessed with comic book heroes and thinks his giant robot is invincible. Then he gets a taste of reality and realizes he's not cut out for this shit.

It's not even deep or anything, I just find him to be a funny character that's unique among the 4/FA cast.

>>162891531

>he's silly and cowardly on purpose
>aka I was only pretending

Yes, it's a nice change of pace, but that doesn't make him any better a character. He feels like the Scrappy Doo of ACFA.

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Hey lads, remember me? I am working on an indie Mech-Game in the spirit of armored core, used to post here but I didn't make too much visible progress so I stopped. Anyway, I'd like some input on a few features I am working on:

1. Active skills: I am thinking of implementing utility skills that can be activated for a short period of time(high energy drain). Huge Energy-shields that block damage from you and your allies, booster-overdrive to stay in midair or EMP-shocks to stun enemies, that kind of stuff.

2. Set-Bonus: The idea is to curb min-maxing so there won't be that one setup everyone is using. To accomplish that using all parts of a set will give a small stat bonus.

3. Varying upgrade caps: So right now the idea is to allow players to upgrade parts 10 times(except internals) so that they are on average 10% better. However I was thinking of allowing shittier parts to have more upgrade levels so that at max-level they can compete with high-tier parts

>>162897283
To add to that:

1. you can only have 1 skill

2. I hope to make super-heavy or super lightweight crafts more feasible without overtuning their parts(again curb min-maxing)

3. This one is the toughest, on one hand I don't want people to feel like they forced to change their favorite setup because "lol numbers" on the other hand there should be trade-offs for using certain parts. I am not sure if this would lead to everything feeling the same or more build variety.

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>>162897283
1. I like the active skills idea, it reminds me of a moba and would be a fun addition during fights.

2. Set bonus is a very good idea, this is a mechanic in mechwarrior online for clan mechs to get unique quirks when they use a whole omnipod set.

3. I think the upgrade idea would be a form of twinking and shouldn't be considered because that isn't very fun. Instead you should do stat paths where you can tune the stats so it can be better at a certain thing like AC tuning or actually it physically changes the part like RP upgrading in front mission 5.

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>>162899374
>reminds me of a moba
wew that's enough to make me a persona non grata on /v/

>Instead you should do stat paths where you can tune the stats so it can be better at a certain thing like AC
I was thinking of that but I want to make the game more long lived so permanent upgrades for lots of dosh seemed the right thing to do.
Tuning in the AC sense would be part of the Pilot-System, you basically collect skill points as you advance and you can use them to improve your expertise in piloting(better energy-management, better with certain type of weapons or armor, aiming etc). Would this be too much? Upgrades and Tuning? Don't want to turn the game into a pure stat-check-fest

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>>162900783
>wew that's enough to make me a persona non grata on /v/
Fuck /v/

You either got to go with one or the other so it isn't overwhelming for players. I personally would do the pilot system idea instead of upgrading parts.

>>162901164
>You either got to go with one or the other so it isn't overwhelming for players.
Hmm if more people share that sentiment I might leave out upgrades for now. The basics are already in the code, so I can add it later anyway.

Thanks for the input mate

>>162897283
>>162899062

Make the active skills like extensions were in AC. They're not free upgrades, they're just a part with an effect and limited ammo. That's literally what most of the extensions already did (ECM, shields, etc.)

Take a look at dark souls for how to do your upgrades. They have 3 classes of weapons "Normal", "Unique" and "Boss". Normal weapons gain about 100% damage at full upgrade. Unique weapons only gain 50% damage, but they start off a lot stronger. They also cost more to upgrade and are harder to buy. Boss-tier weapons start of really weak and are super expensive to upgrade, but gain 200% damage at full upgrade.

Curbing min-maxing doesn't prevent people from using one setup. What you want to do is make it so that changing from one part to any other part can be "brought back to zero" by changing a different part. Faster boosters = more heat, so equip a cooler generator = more weight = back to the same speed you were at before. That would keep diversity high.

Another way you can do it is to use a contextual damage formula, like Verdict Day does. Instead of having 3 defenses that provide a flat or % reduction of all damage, you create thresholds based on the Attack / Damage ratio. So the optimal defenses are never "highest defense per weight" but rather "defense that closest matches the opponent's weapons." This adds variety since a player can always use less common weapons to get an advantage. Just make sure that when you do that, you don't fall into the same mistakes that VD did, and have a few weapons (like battle rifles) that are impossible to build up defenses for.

This is Irregular, BTW, the guy who is making a PvP balance patch for Armored Core Last Raven, so I've been tweaking multiplayer balance and figuring out how to make weapons fair for the last half-year on this project. We should compare notes.

>>162900783
Also, do NOT link your stats to 'pilot skill'. That's a great way to ruin people's immersion in the game. The pilot skill should be better because they play the game better, keep all the stats and customization tied to the mech itself.

Basically, there are ways to do stats that won't make it difficult for players. Dark Souls is a good example.

Give every mech stats like so:
8 Armor (1 point = 10% increase in health)
12 Defense (1 point = +50 Base armor)
15 Attack (1 point = +50 Base attack to all weapons)
20 Speed (1 point = Player moves 2% faster across the screen at X range)
20 Accuracy (1 point = the ratio of shot spread / enemy size is 2% narrower at X range)
15 Special Abilities (1 point = 1 extra point for equipping special abilities)

See how that balances out? If one player puts a point into attack, another player can just put a point into defense and return everything 'back to zero'.

Your upgrades would be like:
XMB-100 "Increases attack"
Attack +2
Speed -1
things fair.

So after equipping 10 different upgrades, you have a net gain of 10 in your stats. Make unique weapons only able to equip 5 upgrades, but have 5 more additional stat points already to start with.


You can have upgrades that are more specialized (+4 , -3) cost money, so instead of "pay to win" you have "pay to specialize". You can also do the same with special abilities or base mechs, as long as they all follow the same basic rules as the regular game to keep

>>162907498
things fair.

Your abilities would basically be stat increases that are stronger than normal, but only active temporarily. For example:

Attack Ability: Increases Base attack by 300 for 10 seconds, then is disabled for 20 seconds. Costs 2 special weapon slots. (+300 = 6 attack slots, but only active for 33% of the time = 2 slots). Allow each player to only use a single special ability, but the higher their special ability stat, the stronger the ability they can equip.

Your weapons would work like this:
Rifle: 300 Attack, 20 Reload time (frames)
Heavy Rifle: 600 attack, 40 reload time, etc.

So DPS (with accuracy taken into account) is the same. Damage / Rate * percentage of hits should be the same for every weapon.

However, you add variety in your attack vs defense ratios.

Make Defense reduce damage by a flat %, but If attack > defense, have it do extra damage. This way if a player boosts their attack over the other player's defense, they have a wider range of weapons that are available to do that extra damage. And if you boost your defense up heavily, then you can get a bonus reduction against most weapons.

That all balances out extremely simply without worrying about being too complicated for players. They know that more speed = more evasion and they don't have to worry about one stat being more important than the other because they can all be countered.

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bump

bamp

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>>162906060
>>162907498
>>162907665
That's a good read mate, though it's a bit late for some suggestions since I am pretty far into the development.

First a bump though

>>162926603
very cool. looks like you have made some impressive progress. don't give up.
VERY impressed.
i'd give you my two cents but honestly i think you are on the right track here >>162897283. even if you don't have everything "figured out" i can tell that with time and effort, you will figure any issues that pop up.
you seem like a smart dude. seems like there's a lot of deliberate decision making (as opposed to arbitrary decision making) and i respect that. and just in my opinion, deliberate decision making leads to good games. make what you want the first time, and you're gold. don't make arbitrary decisions just so you can "fix" them later.
you're on the right track
keep reachin for that rainbow

>>162913694
I know we all agreed the Lahire is ugly, but I kind of like that little crown on the back of its head.

>>162934830
I am thinking of making a sculpture of the head using that pic as a reference, only if I had Aaliyah instead.

>>162935098
Why not just use screenshots from the game?

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>>162906060
wew finally got some time to properly reply

>What you want to do is make it so that changing from one part to any other part can be "brought back to zero" by changing a different part
That's what I am already doing, it's just that this becomes increasingly hard to do the more parts you have. Look at FromSoft and AC, they have an entire team to balance stuff yet in every AC there are 'best' parts and setups.

>I've been tweaking multiplayer balance
Can I get your input on my damage reduction formula? I have 2 different forms of defense, kinetic and heat, but the formula is the same. The lowest possible defense value is 2000, the highest somewhere around 12000, this means that dmg reduction swings between 5 to 80%. Is the margin too wide? How does LR calculate the damage reduction?

>>162929539
Thanks man, I hope one day we all get to play together.

>>162938325
>>162906060
>>162899062
>>162897283

i had no idea game balance was this difficult.

>>162938325
>they have an entire team to balance stuff yet in every AC there are 'best' parts and setups.

And there are reasons why those parts are the best. From balances out the PvE as much as they do the PvP, and most of the time you can see why something is more powerful than something else (it's hard to obtain in-game). That, or there's an obvious oversight with hitboxes for unique weapon (like with the murakumos and quad legs in VD). They also put in weapons that should be harder to use for new players, but aren't for later players, which creates unbalance. Not all of their decisions make sense because they're not going for 'perfect' pvp balance but rather a growth experience for players in the game.

LR's formula is:
Reduction = (1400/5300)+.3777

I think you're overcomplicating the damage formula, focus on how the players are going to interact. A very simple damage formula (attack--defense = damage) can be used as long as the player's experience matches up to the fairness of the formula.

Example:

In a game where dodging a shot is very difficult (both players have high accuracy) then a percent reduction formula isn't very good, since it will always favor higher-powered, slower reload time weapons because the reload time is no longer a setback if you can kill in 1-2 shots, instead of having to throw out 100-200 shots.

A fair balance in a melee game might involve being very specific about certain movesets and wind-up/cooldown times, and using that instead of DPS to determine damage, since very rarely are you going to be "holding triggers"

>>162939242
Man, you have no idea, after working on this game for some time now I gained so much respect for From Software, it's insane how well they make these games. For example I made the mistake of making my leg-parts too important, they determine the max-weight and the jumping strength, this works really well when the player has an uniform mech (e.g. all heavy parts), however when using heavy legs and otherwise lightweight parts the player can jump and boost crazy far/fast because "lol low weight/max-weight ratio". Gotta fix that mess now, hopefully some different math is going to do the trick.

>>162941347
Hmm my formula makes it so that every 1000AR the player gains 5% dmg reduction, until he hits a certain threshold after that it gets exponentially more
>5% DR at 2000AR(min)
>30% DR at 7000AR
>80% DR at 12000AR(max)
My game doesn't have AutoAim so slow heavy weights are more likely to get hit that's why I am using this formula.

>>162938325
What you want is for the following to ALWAYS be true:

Time it takes for the players health to reach 0 = Time it takes for the opponent's health to reach 0

For all given weapons and combinations of parts. The only time that isn't true is when you want to reward a certain playstyle or effort on behalf of the player. For example, Last Raven parts have both defense reduction and health. Since your total damage you can take depends on both (and reduction multiplies your 'effective' health). you can have a worse defense/weight ratio if you equip parts with wide variance in their weight class, assuming all the parts follow the same weight/total defense ratio. Likewise in Armored Core 4, you could second stage quickboost, giving you a universal advantage in mobility but being difficult to pull off reliably.


So let's assume, using your formula, that every AC has 1000 health.
Effective health of minimum armor: 50
Effective health of maximum armor: 800

So for every battle, heavier units should take 40x more hits than lightweight units. Seems implausible, right?

But hold on, that assumes that all weapons have the same accuracy (which, for something like LR, they sort of do. Similar muzzle velocities)

So what determines accuracy in a game with no auto aim? Target apparent size on the screen. This is what Mechwarrior online uses, faster mechs are also smaller, making them harder to hit even when standing still.

So ways to reduce that 40x multiplier:
>give lightweights more health
>adopt a different damage formula (like threshold damage)

Ways to reach that 40x multiplier:
>add powerful weapons that only work against heavier opponents
>slow down heavy opponents considerably, do not give them dodging capabilities
>give lighter builds the highest DPS weapons
>use matchmaking so that 1 heavy = 2 or 3 lightweights on a team (mechwarrior online does this too)

etc.

>>162943750
Correction: I meant 16x not 40x.

800/50 = 16x more health for heavy units

So you want the heaviest heavy units to be hit 16x more.
In LR, the heaviest units only get hit 3x more (20000 total health vs 60000). This makes sense because there's lock on, so accuracy is more based on range / reaction time / direction changes than outright speed or size.

Let's assume everyone moves at the same speed in your game, then that means that you would increase the SIZE of heavy units such that they were hit 16x more.

I would do a simple test for accuracy and see how % of the screen corresponds to accuracy. Example:
10% of the screen's area = 60% of shots land
20% of screens area = 80% of shots land
30% of screens area = 100% of shots land

Which means
2x increase in size = 33% more accuracy
3x incresae in size = 66% more accuracy
etc.

So if heavy units are twice as large as light units, at the same speed, then you can treat them as having 33% less health than it appears.

So now:
Effective health of minimum armor: 50
Effective health of maximum armor: 528 (actual health is 800, with accuracy: 800 * 2/3 = 528)

Doubling the size didn't make them equal, so you have to also do speed. Base that on human reaction time or the time it takes for them to perform a dodge or change direction, etc. Use the actual way the player will interact with the game to decide what ranges are fair.

>>162943750
>Time it takes for the players health to reach 0 = Time it takes for the opponent's health to reach 0
That's a great bit of game design wisdom

I see your point though I am not too sure on your numbers
If an AC has 1000 HP then
EHP at min armor: 1052(1000/0.95)
EHP at max armor: 5000(1000/0.2)
So a heavy mech would only have 5x times the effective HP even though he'd be far more likely to get hit, I think that's a fair trade-off

>>162944978
I read your damage reduction as inverted, so my numbers are wrong, yes. But you get the point I was making.

Also, that percentage is only the max/min of weight. You also have to figure out the shape of the curve.

For things like speed, it can be diminishing returns. Being 10% faster at the low end can make a huge difference but 10% faster at the high end might not.

I would use lead times for range. Basically, the faster a person is going, the more you have to 'lead' your shots. The more you have to lead your shots, the more time it takes for the shot to hit them = more time they have to change direction and avoid it.

So at a speed that makes 0.2s or less for a shot to reach someone, I consider that 100% since humans can't react that fast. Then reduce the accuracy for each point. This would, however, heavily punish players who didn't lead their targets in your game, since instead of lead distance you now have "difficulty of leading" since the game doesn't automatically calculate lead distance.

>>162945568
Man, you have been very enlightening, I didn't even think about accuracy that way, just as a 'lol bullet spread', screencapped everything for later.
>looks like the 90-90 rule isn't just a meme
well shit

>>162946472
I would really try to keep it as simple as possible. You're making it from scratch rather than using an existing system, so it's much harder for you to make false assumptions since you can't play test before applying numbers.

Make a very simple equation for evasion vs defense (for frame) and accuracy vs DPS (for weapons).

Figure out what kind of gameplay you want to punish people for (in LR, I turned boost accel down, so twitch dodging is less effective to evade than slower positioning). Use that to give universal advantages or disadvantages to that.

Keep the formulas simple, keep the assumptions strong. If you add huge variety or ranges you will be forced to turn it into rock-paper-scissors.

Also, look into economic modeling. It's basically the same principles of applying numbers based on data about people's interactions, that's where I learned everything I know.

>>162946847
*much easier for you to make false assumptions

>>162941347
Oh, that 1400 in the LR formula is defense, I don't know why I kept 1400 instead of "D". I keep making silly typos in these replies, sorry.

>>162951826
>*Oh god ew get em off me please!*

>>162955349
Being White Glint is suffering.

>>162902952
I forgot to suggest this to you but in FME they use battle skills during fights by RNG. So you could try something similar to this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAeLGNuUcwM

Y'all got an ACVD Grind Blade webm?

>>162981995
I would make you one but there isn't a good quality video of the ACV teaser trailer with the grind blade in it.

>>162989117
That's because the trailer never came out in HD. ACV's first teaser was back in -2009-.

I'm still pissed that they basically shelved the project and started over for 2012.

This is the best video you'll find:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkydCZ260hU

You can try a youtube downloader and see if you can download it in non-upscaled version (360p) so you can get a low-res but high quality webm.

Knight Valfodr has some high res story missions (720p60) on his youtube channel, so maybe you could use some of the ACV cutscenes instead.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWFmZcV7WE8

Grind blade at 5:40

>>162992113
You want me to add it to the dropbox or do you want it through mixtape moe?

I added the front mission and new grind blade webms in the dropbox.

File: 1474753824480.jpg (26KB, 285x281px) Image search: [Google]

26KB, 285x281px

>>162992113
Yeah, I remember wanting the new AC to come out because I was getting burnt on ACFA and found that teaser trailer and was so fucking hyped but then the shit comes out 3 years later.

>>162996089

funny how that works out. But you know it would've been a worse game if they rushed it out.

>>163008589
If they do the same with the new game, this time better be a good one

>>163008997
I hope the next installment is a great game and will keep us satisfied for 5+ years.

>>163013069
As long the game doesnt became a wasteland after the first year, I think it can

I just can wait for a E3 that will show a CG animation of some cools mechas starting up or fighting before FROM SOFTWARE appears, just knowing were this is going, extra points if they show it after presenting something like a new Dark souls, DLC or something.

>>163013069
>>163013818

Ironically, the best way to make the next AC last for a long time will be to NOT make it online focused. Keep the online to the minimum that ACFA and ACLR had, where you can battle against friends and do cool stuff, but it doesn't encompass the entire game. A good singleplayer makes a game far more timeless, since you never have to worry about the online dying out if you have a good SP.

And really, I'll take any design choices thye make regarding the robots. I just want something with the cool weapon concepts of ACV, the scale of ACFA, and the gameplay design and difficulty of ACLR.

>>163013069
>>163014509
I don't know, man. I played ACV/D almost exclusively, for over 3 years. And I still get the urge to go back, sometimes. All because of the online portion of it. If my team still played at all, or if JP wasn't a shell of its former self, I'd probably still be hooked on VD.

I played through the rest of the AC series once or twice, maybe 3 times for a few of them, but I haven't touched any of them in over a decade.

But, hey, whose to say that they can't have BOTH a good single player experience, AND a strong online focus? Given current game design mentality, it's improbable, but it is definitely possible.

>>163014509
Well once again, they can learn something from DS, the game isnt much about PvP, and more about co-op againts the bosses, PvP is there but is more like a fun extra, making better and harders arms forts to justify the need of more than one player can easily attract the DS fans