/rlg/ - Roguelike General

What's happening is part of a phenomenon I wrote about a couple of years ago when I was asked to comment on balance. I went to the DCSS blog and read the trunk commit log. I suffered a great deal in the process. The thought process was dreadful; the decisionmaking was terrible. As I read, I noticed that every time a feature was removed, the developer commented that the feature "was bloat." I began marking on the back of an envelope every time that phrase was repeated. I stopped only after I had marked the envelope several dozen times. I was incredulous. The Devil's Team's mind is so governed by interesting tactical situations and unique races that they have no other style of development.

But when I wrote that in a Tavern post, I was denounced. I was told that children would now play only DCSS and I was asked whether that wasn't, after all, better than playing no roguelikes at all? If removals were what it took to make them pick up a roguelike, wasn't that a good thing?

It is not. DCSS will not lead our children on to NetHack or Poschengband. It will not lead them to Sil or DoomRL or Infra Arcana.

Later I read a lavish, loving review of DCSS by the same Edmund McMillen. He wrote something to the effect of, "If these kids are playing DCSS at 11 or 12, then when they get older they will go on to play The Binding of Isaac." And he was quite right. He was not being ironic. When you play DCSS you are, in fact, trained to play The Binding of Isaac.

Our mountain dwarfs and our genies and our Pakellas are being removed, and the causes are very complex. I'm 2 million turns old. In a lifetime of ascending MuMos, I've seen the definition of roguelikes debased. There's very little authentic development of the genre remaining. My ancestor came to me five thousand turns ago saying she'd been in a dungeon in which the player ghost spent nine hundred turns saying that permafood was bloat. These aren't even good removals. It's insufferable.

Is Roxanne a guaranteed spawn
My Octopode needs Statue Form reeeeeeeeeeee

>>158156697
no

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>>158096870
>>158109285
>tfw you recommend Songs From The Wood as tunes for a Sil player which then inspires anons to create OC for /rlg/

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!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Let's do our best today!

Slav roguelike:
>stats: misery, poverty, liver
>food clock is drunkenness - getting sober causes increasing penalties and finally suicide
>classes: bydlo, priest, hobo
>if your poverty stat is low, you risk getting mugged
>if your misery stat is low, NPCs may randomly turn hostile, calling you a faggot
>the higher your liver stat is, the faster you sober up
>when attacked, defending self with a weapon stronger than assailant's will make police turn hostile
>open world, but there is nothing to do
>you can marry a woman and sire children, but both will eventually grow to hate you and turn hostile or run away

Name: RLussia, PoRLand or UkRLaine

>>158157421
>tfw played so many strategy games set in Europe my knowledge of American geography has suffered considerably

Also I'm not sure I would've ever gotten "sigh" from that. Would've figured it was some weeb character I've never heard of.

>>158157449

Just call it "GopnikRL"

>>158156890
Boring
All I have left is Vaults and Depths and shit and no Statue Form is fucking killin git

>>158157641
It's Ohio.

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>Game gives you the choice to save a guy in mythology who got fucked over for no reason
>Everybody chooses to fuck them over themselves because they get a free waifu for doing so.

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Hey lads it's time for another iteration for the /vg/ League!
>What the fuck is this?
A virtual soccer tournament where various generals of /vg/ play against each other. I've managed /rlg/ in the last two tournaments.

I'm here to see if the general wishes to participate.
Vote here http://www.strawpoll.me/11485582

Here's some links to our team page and past tournaments
http://implyingrigged.info/wiki//vg/_League
http://implyingrigged.info/wiki//rlg/

This is also a great time for roster changes, so make your suggestions as to who should be sacked and who should replace them!

>>158158163
Yes I did eventually figure that out. It's how I knew the third image was "sigh".

I love roguelike like Binding of Isaac, Gungeon etc. I'm new to this thread but wanted so say hello everyone!

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Also, not sure whether I should get rid of the Wisp of Huo Shu at this point. I still have another portal I have to do. Something sanctum, and it's a red portal. I feel like I've been in there but I don't remember what the enemies were.

>>158158506
fuck off

>>158072479
((slash/buff attack + rabblerouser) | (ghost pierce + swiftness + mobility) | (ice/impact attack + headwind)) + leadership + on-hit delay passive + choking veil
that's 5-6 abilities focused on getting as many attacks in as possible
fill the rest with debilitating veils/on-hit passives (stun/silence/sleep/paralysis/panic) (probably prefer veils if you're a hero vs. summoner+minions) or dash/juggernaut to get in asap and get bonus defense while using ghost pierce

>>158158729
If you're still on the third floor, it's Vikhor's sanctum.
You got a malingee, so it'd be better to keep around to deal with future fire enemies. The will o wisp becomes less useful by that Sanctum, though, but there are some times where it can still do okay damage. Alternatively, the huo shu can be kept for dealing fire damage.

>>158158276
In my experience it's more like
>he can only watch in horror as the person helping him is mauled beneath a million dogs
>he's next

>>158158276
every demon poster in /rlg/ talks about making a deer tank instead of going with waifu

>>158158276
huh I didn't know that that is the only way to get Artemis, great to know

Is there any reliable way to get Haste before Viktor?

I adore haste, not sure if I adore it enough for triple physical weakness.

>>158160057
All I can think of is starting as the buffing orb of power. For all I know right now, it's an ability of the imbued (i.e. more powerful blessed) modifier.

>>158158506
not a roguelike
yeah sure, go for it

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The first time I capture Artemis is also the run where I capture Vikhor for the first time. But now I wish I saved the Wisp so I could give him Ghost Pierce. Is that an essential skill for him, or do people build him a different way? Slash dance has a cooldown so isn't he kind of vulnerable without ghost pierce?

>>158161715
Wait a minute, it doesn't have a cooldown. It's also not a dance. Fuck, why can't I into brain.

Vikhor almost died of poison while running away so I had to burn a pure stone on him.

>>158161981
I have actually killed Vikhor before while linking with him. The "Vikhor flows with new power!" message still showed up in spite of his death.

>Encounter Zar
>Do the mandatory Zar negotiation to get Calm on my healer
>He asks me to move closer
>It ends up putting me in a spot where the other Zar can't pounce me.
Why are Zars such traitors? Also, holy crap, my Asrai and Artemis just chunk everything.

With how many races have you finished dcss?I've yet to win with a demigod

>>158162708
I have only won with vine stalker, tengu, minotaur, and merfolk.

>>158162708
how the fug? you won a felid, but not a demigod?

>>158162765
tengu is pretty difficult and fragile desu
>>158162857
felid are pretty strong with statue form not to mention their many lifes

>>158160224
>it's an ability of the imbued (i.e. more powerful blessed) modifier.

I've never heard of this. So basically its an orb only thing?

>>158163023
Only if you want it guaranteed early on. Later in the game there are stronger versions of early modifiers.

>>158162857
Felids are so good they get boring fast on their own, which is compounded by the fact that they have so little to do.

Is there anything fun to do as far as merging unique demons onto anything? The modifiers look interesting, but I have never seen or heard of *anyone* doing this.

>>158158276
what game? google doesn't give me answers

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>>158162708
Haven't done it with these guys yet.

>>158163760
Headless's modifier is pretty good for many hitdudes. Headless himself is a solid party member even into the midgame. I haven't seen much meta in regards to unique modifiers yet, especially given how only the first few start to fall off in the end game.

>>158163765
Demon.
Pretty nifty game due to the fact that about 98-99% of enemies can be turned into summons, and 98-99% of abilities encountered can be made yours.

>>158163760
Usually I throw them onto something when I would otherwise get rid of them. Not sure if stormy kitsune or whatever was actually good, but it's better than what I'd get from just dumping cocoa.

>>158163989
ty

>Realize I forgot to start a link with one of the Neros in a pack
>The next enemy I run into is a hero
Dodged a bullet there.

Should my draconian transmuter use shields? I never fully understood the shield system

>>158166337
Bucklers sure.

In general though you're not gonna spend enough time un-transmuted to warrant heavy shield investment.

The new shield system is basically that 1 shield point = 1 evasion point.

>>158164936
>Encounter a second Nero pack
>Forget to link again
>Proceed to run into Python
I'm like fucking Neo.

Also, the Python fight is so tedious. You literally have to run around in circles and lure all his allies away, then pick them off one by one before you attempt to link with him.

>>158167087
Unless you have a good team, like 2 light smiters, in which case you don't need to pick his allies one by one.

>>158167087
>recruit ruhin
>walk in with your dudes
>tell them to attack one of his buddies
>repeat until he's alone
>walk away, rest to heal your demons
>link with him

>>158167271
You still have to run in circles because Python isn't just gonna stand there and let you shoot at his allies. He'll whack you pretty good.

>link with chaos for the first time
Oh, now I see why it is a feared link.

Are there Jiyva altars in 0.18?

>>158166426
>>158166337
>draconian
Probably no, since you'll be using dragon form. If you were rolling with bloatform, then yeah sure.

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>>158163760
I do fusions using uniques very often.
Every game:
Python (I've revived Python so I could get 2 Cthonic demons before.)
Most games:
Headless
Sometimes:
Ninkasi
Reprobus
Miodchaoin
Ccoa
Never ever:
Everything else, including
Vikhor (Squishy as fuck. Speed boost is nice, but keeping him alive long enough so I can fuse him to something worthwhile like an Oni is too much effort.)
Artemis

>>158167375
His attacks are mediocre, he can't hit all that hard. He mostly just drains turns.
He has AoE, but if you send a tanky dude, such as headless, at him to occupy him, then blast away at range while healing the tank, his team will run out of SP soon.

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He never even got into attack range because my Asrai has Headwind.

So the obvious thing to do here is to delete the malingee. The problem is, I suffer from "everything in my party is weak against fire" syndrome if I do that.

>>158168093
Artemis is shit so you can delete her instead.

>>158167087
Wha?
>recruit ruhin
>kill water shitter effortlessly
>enslave python while his rock shitter flails away helplessly on you
>recruit solid rock shitter if you want

Had no troubles at all.

>Link with Holy Nero
>Its pack was the last enemies on the level despite it only being half explored
>Decide to just skip
>Portal informs me that the entrance to another dungeon branch is on this level
This game just doesn't want me to recruit any neros.
Also, what kind of garbage is Our Sanctum filled with? Is that the one with the Glitches?

>>158169309
It's the glitch sanctum, yes. I only go there if I'm feeling daring and I have no problem killing Anomaly's residents.

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You FUCKING

WORTHLESS

GODDAMN

SHIT

ONE TURN

>>158167556
Really? I've been using statue form way more. With it my AC is 37, compared to 20 something for Dragon.

>>158169420
I have two smiters but the first encounter was all four element dudes plus a glitch. Is that normal? If so, I don't understand how people can put up with this shit.

And what do the element enemies have to do with "anomaly" theme-wise?

>>158169852
It is normal for them to spawn with them, yes. They spawn with most other Anomaly demons.

I am not quite sure about the theme, but aside from the earliest two Sanctums, they cannot be found anywhere else in the game. They can spawn outside of Anomaly as Ludoc's summons, though, usually on Tower:6.

Why do Chaos only have three abilities? Like, I still might recruit it anyway because it's the first source of Draw Wounds I have seen all game.

>>158158276

stagzoned

>>158156474
le most ebin jk rowling & steven king edit of our time good sir *le tib*

>>158157421
ohio go sigh mast. rswamp!!!

>>158170502
it's r-algae you fucking plebian

>>158169501
lmao git gud

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It suddenly occurs to me that my party is almost entirely physical damage.

>>158171121
I have literally never managed to kill her.

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>>158157421

>>158170321
why does any demon only have three abilities
noob

>>158171221
She is a bit tougher than Zaiji; half the time it might not be worth the effort. Infection helps hinder her healing from guilt, but she has a good chance of resisting it. A raiju can finish her off quickly. Like Zaiji, she is very vulnerable to max HP drain attacks.

>>158171221
My Profane Easg Saint has Wraith Touch so she'll go down eventually. Will post screenshot of her maxHP when she's almost dead.

>>158171372
>but she has a good chance of resisting it
She can also purge it with Cleansing Cut.

>>158171305
This isn't /d2g/. But I'm glad you added a picture of a pretty girl.

>>158171554
Oh wow. What a clever addition.

>>158158276
People actually choose Artemis? Actaeon makes a pretty decent meme tank while Artemis is a mediocre back-liner.

>>158171705
You always pick Artemis as heart because she is the single best Revelation target in the game. You can also eventually do the Chthonic Artemis meme.

>>158171705
Artemis looks pretty OK on paper, like you can stack tons of +on-hit on her. It's only later when you realize that her stats are terrible and she runs out of SP as soon as combat starts.

>>158158142
try zig

>>158171849
>You can also eventually do the Chthonic Artemis meme.

I know what Revelation does but what's so great about Chthonic (sp) Artemis or using revelation on her?

>>158173046
Most of the abilities granted by revelation to Artemis are actually things you'd want on Artemis. The Chthonic modifier gets rid of some of Artemis's weaknesses and gives her better cunning for applying statuses.

I have been taking my time trying to figure out the patterns of stats distributed in leveling up in Demon. So far I have only found patterns in freybug; I have also managed to level up echeneis and goblin almost as much as my best unmodified freybug, but I have yet to figure out their stat patterns. They tricky thing about keeping around the early demons for so long is the EXP decay; even if they only have one weakness, they tend to be weaker later on in the face of things like centaurs and chachapuma.

P.S. more like I think I have found the patterns in freybug. What I have found is not definite but seems like how it levels up. Echeneis always gain 1 point of agility.

The first summoner I encountered was the heart user with a bunch of fire skills, and since Madreva was on the level still, I have to dodge the level. Also, my entire party is weak to fire so fuck that.

Is Anomaly only 3 levels?

>>158174053
Yep! The Sanctums that can show up (Python's and the glitch one) are more or less part of it, though.

>>158173330
>>158173820
>>158173873
>>158174053
Shut up you huge gay retards.

>>158174129
Not yet.

>>158173330
>>158173820
whatever nerd
I just go by the demon's initial stats and modifier and that's that

>>158174129
nigger

>>158174362
>I just go by the demon's initial stats and modifier and that's that
That's more or less all you'd need to know.

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Does anyone have a pic of artemis stat screen? I would like it for pic related but I don't want to splat my current summoner. Not sure what to put for first panel though.

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>>158174469
I've got a screenshot for nearly every single encounter, so you can ask for whatever whenever you'd like.

>>158169852
The anomaly is supposed to be home to "incomplete" demons. The elementals fit in as they are like unrefined raw materials present in everything.

>banished to the abyss
>I sacrificed stealth
This is how I die. They just keep fucking coming.

>>158174574
do you have all of the nu-demons

>>158175652
I made it out. And got banished again.
JUST

>>158174574
Do you have one for Foita?

>>158175654
I think the only ones I don't have are a few of the starter demons, some of the Anomaly encounters, and a few of the hidden demons.

>>158175465
Wow. That makes a lot of sense.

>>158176018
That's one of the few I don't have. I keep on noticing its absence and yet I have yet to remember to bother. I'm not playing at the moment and I currently have no game; I splatted to some chachapuma. I might get you it tonight.

>>158174469
>implying Actaeon would fair any better against Madevra
You either need the Fetch Dreamstalker cheese combo, a shitload of electrical damage, or a light resistant veil tank. You might actually need light immunity; I don't know how strong her ability to apply guilt is.

>>158175956
>>158175652
Round fucking 3. Holy fuck I hate these elf sorcerers so much. why wont they just let me leave?

>>158176327
She has no problem applying guilt onto nearly anything she can hit. Also, I think the only light immune demons that can spawn by her latest floor are easg saints, aithir, and angels. They're not quite the strongest frontliners.

>>158176327
ya I was thinking of replacing Madevra with a pack of Foitas who will fuck actaeon up in anomaly with their fire damage.

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>>158158142
>>158169839

>using bloatform
>ever

nice

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>>158176679
Maybe you should put in angels too. He's weak to light attacks. This will be a supreme meme.

>>158176793
He's weak to literally everything. Basically a buff wisp with worse resistances. At least Artemis is a ranged attacker at a time when that's uncommon.

I don't know why rlg likes him so much.

>>158177053
I don't think he's that well-liked. I have mentioned I have managed to ascend with him once. I got a feeling I'm responsible for all of this nonsense.

>>158176468
At least you're getting a chance to fight back, yesterday I got sent there then came back then i got
>Damnation
>Damnation
>Damnation
to death. I should've used that scroll of silence tho'.

>>158176793
>>158177053
>>158177159
Stop the bullying. /rlg/ is a ACTAEON GENERAL. People who like and choose Artemis are actually women and play non-roguelikes like FTL, BoI, Crawl and Rogue Legacy.

>>158176468
this is why MR is the most important stat

>not raiding mount olympus while riding actaeon and returning him to his human form after all the olympians are dead

>>158178000

it's the most important stat if you have no skill

How high does my Earth have to be before I can cast shatter?

is CBRO extremely laggy for anyone else?

>with Exorcist's Mien + Demon's Mien Actaeon can be one shotted with snuff out
It doesn't seem to work on preta for some reason, though. Will o wisps can be instaggibed too. I'll have to figure out how to take out tougher demons with light and dark resistances (well, I think someone figured it out).

>>158157407
>Songs From The Wood
wow that shit's gay as fuck

What is the main difference between Nethack and DCSS? Which one is more FUN?

So I got a zar and a kasha, I noticed it won't let me transfuse the kasha to the zar. Is it because its weak against light attacks that it can't be made holy, can you not apply a higher level to a lower level creature, or what?

>>158178471
Demons without weaknesses can't exist is why
Fiery Gandayah OP

>>158176729
it's a fucking 0 ac octopode what are you expecting

>Run into a pack of enemies with smite
>Loss half my hp in one turn
>Loss the other half before I can do anything
This game is totally possible to beat if you're weak to light.

>>158179403
If you ran into them after rounding a corner then yea that sucks. Otherwise don't be a frontliner and you can win as pretty much anything

>>158179403
Before the enemy sense was nerfed, mask was the ezmode.
Git gud.

>>158179514
I was really just mercy killing myself because I wasted a shitload of credits on something stupid then accidentally let vikhor die. My team didn't have any coherent theme other than cheesing with turn skips from headwind and judge's mien to coast through most fights.

>>158179403
You know spite works the same friggin way for dark damage right?

>>158179935
You don't need a coherent theme if you have enough shekels to get one.

My most successful runs had almost no fused demons and not much ability copying. I ended up with a shitload of shekels I didn't need, because fast (de)summon meant even weak demons could be utilized well and never died.

>>158180382
I don't know why I said that. It's more like, my team lacked threat diversity.

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>>158177725
Post gore.

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>>158050627
>Ruby Quest
>in my /rlg/

>>158180719
>Picking Spite instead of Censure
Bruh, do you even want to do damage early game?

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>>158179098

>implying AC matters at all
>when bladehands/dragonform kill almost everything in the game in 1-3 hits

lmao'ing at your bloat

>>158181153
The power to kill everything in the game in 1-3 hits is surprisingly underwhelming if its your main schtick, considering the point where you get it at.

>tfw you can't even hug your waifu with your vestigial arms

Can anyone recommend a good RL for Android that is not Pixel Dungeon or DCSS?

Skills to take from Headless and put on Vikhor before fusion dancing?

>>158183483
Open the What to Play? pasta in the OP and jump to the mobile section.

>>158183483

You can get Powder on Android, but the interface is kind of clumsy.

>>158183545
leadership
diehard if u have some credits to spare i guess

>>158180863
Ruby quest is so old it's at home in any board
I think I remember seeing someone doing a paper doll of ruby in the paper doll board
Whatever its name is

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How does Parry work exactly? Does the type have to match exactly? If so it doesn't seem that good, if not it seems quite good.

Suggestions on what to delete?

All this demon talk is making me uncomfortable
It's like that time all the general talked about was Elona, for like one month
I don't enjoy this
Why can't you play a wholesome game without shitty tiles

>>158185073

Oh that Elona phase was much, much longer than a month.

>>158185073
Shut up you huge gay retard.

>>158185073

Except Elona+ is actually good while Demon is horseshit. Whoever could save us now?

>>158184956
>Does the type have to match exactly?
Probably just physical vs physical.
There aren't many cases where physical type needs to match anything.

>>158185073
When it's not FotM, it's DCSS. All hail FotM.

>>158185431
Time.
Time will save us.
In time we'll be back to dcss.
It's just a matter of time.

>>158184956
Rousing Cry is a wasted turn. Riposte may be juicy, but Vikhor lacks durability more than damage and parry covers his only weakness(though he can't parry ranged attacks).

>>158184956
My Vikhor goes great, I deleted Cleave.

Atm he has Evade Step, Parry, Leadership, Pounce, Spin Slash, Juggernaut, and, eh, Venomous.

I'm a Light/Dark/Faithful Heart, so enemies usually have Guilt on them to keep him healed. I know it won't last well too long, but I love seeing Headless and Vikhor constantly speedboosting each other with Leadership.

>>158184956
What are the three more?

>>158185431
Elona+ is steaming dogshit, it's just really addicting. Demon has a lot of flaws, including the boring looking tower and lack of tacticool terrain (which now that I think about it are problems with Elona as well), but the variety of builds and party composition, along with the unique combat, really makes the game much more fun to actually play compared to grinding up magic dart for hundreds of hours. Not to mention playing Elona+ as a roguelike, without resurrecting or grinding up skills/potential/money outside of combat, is probably actually impossible, unless you're our lord and savior, The Dick Man.

>some powers have Light cooldowns
>some powers have Dark cooldowns
>think I can load up on Light and Dark abilities and use the Prayer thingy to recharge them both
>surprise, they're not two different cooldowns, they're the same exact cooldown with different names arbitrarily

Th-thanks Ferret

So there is a bit of a balance issue in demon. In general, it's optimal to only have one or two attack abilities that lack some kind of cooldown in Demon, and have the rest be passives or utility actives. This means that a lot of modified demons have redundant junk(especially the physical modifiers), and that a lot of abilities(particularly the physical attacks with added effects) are just bad. Does every physical ability need to provide some kind of passive benefit?

>>158186117

On the contrary, there is only one thing that's really, objectively bad about Elona, and it's not the grind - It's the fact that the randomized dungeons have an absolutely shit design and variety than even Hack does: you get the same six floor type recycles over and over and fucking over again alternating between "room with monsters", "monster house", "fucking nothing", and maybe if you're lucky a room with only Eleas or Yerles or Bears or Kobolds in it.

Seriously, why can't we have an engaging dungeon with things like vaults, dungeon stores, heck, even dungeon settlements or hidden passages that lead to bonus rooms? That's where Elona glaringly fails the most in.

>>158186798
Physical itself isn't underpowered at all; 3-4 of the first unique summons are physically oriented.

I guess I don't see what makes physical have a unique problem in your example. Of course physical summoners have overwhelmingly severe problems, and extreme range summoners probably have it easiest (esp orb) but there isn't a problem with physical itself.

Also str is much better than magic for what it does.

>>158186970

Just because Elona doesn't have the typical dungeon """""""""""""""design""""""""""""""" bloat like in Crawl that has numerous wikitavern neckbeards circlejerking about their next dungeon """""""""""""""design""""""""""""""", doesn't mean it's bad.

>>158187529
>""""""""""""
This is my least favourite meme.

>>158187169
he's saying that physical dudes are much better off stacking a bunch of survival passives or passives that improve your one or two active attacks, rather than stacking the hundred different flavors of attack/buff or attack/debuff or attack/magic, since the active attacks that you aren't using don't really do anything to help you
also physical attacks are less affected by weakness/resistance (and those weaknesses/resists are rarer) than magic attacks too, so magic users are encouraged to have a few actives of different types, while there's hardly any incentive for physical attackers to do the same

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>>158178409
You're gay as fuck.

>>158188076
Physical attacks have smaller differences, but there's still cones, lines, movement attacks, and abilities + riders.

Its also better to build a caster with a bunch of passives generally, you can just get a different caster afterall if their resistance crops up. If this is about the main character, building him for damage is grossly suboptimal so it is not relevant.

Is there any ability that grants heroism?

>>158189228
play as a weaponmaster specializing in diggers

you can bury corpses for temporary bless, and at level 15 you get heroism as well

at higher levels there are some other strong buffs like resists, haste, and magic resistance too

>>158189562
Whoops, I'm tired and meant to say "Is there any ability in Demon that grants heroism?"

>>158189637
i assumed you were posting about crawl tbqh

although about crawl it would be a really stupid question since the ability that grants heroism is called "heroism"

>>158188753
That he is, little loli.
That he is.

1. If you fuse something onto a unique demon, is the unique demon then unable for fusing with its unique essence?
2. Do magical attacks that don't hit automatically, such as x Bolt, require dexterity or magic to roll to hit?

>>158189828
yes they use "dexterity", aka agility

hit chance is always agility, debuff chance is always cunning
magic only affects damage

>>158189828
yes
agi for accuracy unless specified in the description

>>158189828
I'm pretty sure that modified demons don't pass on their original modifier if used for fusions.
They use agility just like everything else for accuracy.

>>158183483
Short answer: there's none.

Long answer:
Hoplite has excellent mechanics but zero content (even behind the paywall), it might last you a few hours.
Ananias is complete shit. If you have zero standards you can check it out, otherwise don't waste your time.
There's an APK of Brogue floating around the web but the UI might be broken and make it unplayable.
Cardinal Quest 2 is mediocre and gets boring fast, but it's probably the biggest, least terrible one you'll find. Play it on Kongregate first, see if it's any good.

There's also Dweller and Legends of Yore, which I haven't tried out. They might be OK.

>>158190140
As someone who plays hoplite every weel on the bus, I disagree about your assessment as to its duration.
It's not something you can play every day, over and over again though. Definitely low on content, but I think that works for it.

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Just another day...

>>158187804
What about (((((this))))) meme?

>encounter a zombie hulk
>use a shotgun to kill it, taking serious damage in the process
>cut down by a massive horde featuring several more hulks
My mistake was lying low for a few days instead of just trying to outrun the horde immediately. I was hoping they'd disperse, but they never do that.
I wish they did. Either that, or reached some kind of critical mass and merged together, forming a goo pit. Having them camp outside my hidey hole indefinitely just feels like cheating. They shouldn't even know I'm here! I could have moved on ages ago! There are hundreds of basements out there that don't have a horde on top of them!

>>158191806

They track by hearing and scent.

>>158191806
Hordes just aren't all that fun. Too easy to spawn, too persistent.

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I love uniques.
If only robin and jessica and Ijib were there.

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So /rlg/ help me make up my mind

I'm at Depths right now, as a worshipper of Trog, and I'm getting ready to take on Pand or Hell

The question is, do I switch to TSO? I still want Trog to gift me with a Speed branded weapon but if I don't switch it up now I'm worried I won't have high enough TSO piety to really get the most out of him when I reach Hell

Another reason to hold out for Trog would be for him to gift me a Giant Spiked Club with good bonuses that I could then bless with my TSO gift, or should I just save that for the Demon Whip I'm wielding right now?

too many fucking choices mang

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Looks good.
Worth grabbing over something else I have?

>>158192191
>depths 2
>9 ev
>with only 16ac
>11 dex
>ready to do hell
alright lad

>>158192361
I didn't say I was ready, I said I was getting ready
I still need a golden dragon armour but those are common enough in Depths, just haven't found a butcherable corpse yet

>>158157407
Buzz off you twerp, I've been listening to Jethro Tull for half a decade or more

>>158192191
Trog won't gift you a speed branded weapon.
You should probably do the "main game" branches before doing the postgame stuff.

What if MR scaled somewhat with spellcasting? Would that be a good change for melee/magic starting balance?

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>>158192435
FINE
I'll just go on vacation instead then

>>158192281
drop tormentor like a hot potato

>>158192617
fucking retard

>>158192617
>melee/magic starting balance
I have no idea what that change would achieve, but it sounds really bad.

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>>158192409
I didn't mean it like that.
It's a great album and I'm glad I managed to bring those feelings out to the surface which resulted in great OC.

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10/10 formation, would drain again

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>>158163172

>Felids are so good

So good you want to kill yourself whenever you try playing it?

>>158194301
Anon

You're a cat

You have sanic speed

You have carnivore

You have -40% HP

Why in the absolute shit are you going melee instead of just running away and blasting the living hell out of everything

>>158194301
>cat of chei

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>>158194301
>mfw a Felid wanted to be an ogre berserker near me

What's the deal with people splatting MiBes MiFis and TrBes on D2 D3 and D4 on xtahua
I'm moving to underhound
I can't mumo like this

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Is it possible that some servers can't read some rc files?
How do I fix this?
I'm trying out Underhound, it's been working perfectly for months on Xtahua.

Hell yeah, killed Madevral (sp) with my first char who ran into her.

Linebacker: Cththonic Vickor (sp)
Healer: Lifegiver Fairy
MVP: Charged Aeras
Me: Light/Dark Faithful Heart

>>158194385

>Why in the absolute shit are you going melee

So you're a pussy both in the game and in real life.

>>158194702

Tried to paste the contents of the RC, didn't work. It just didn't read them.

I'm confused.

Wait, nevermind. I got this.

But that was just from copypasting the entirety of HDA's rcfile and I only wanted two things.
I think I can fix this myself though.

Oh wait, apparently it works for any version on underhound, EXCEPT for .18
It works on trunk and .17 but not .18

God fucking damnit.

>>158194593
pussy

>>158194720
coo

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First win! 3 magic maps and two portals adjacent to entrances for the last 5 floors. Skipped 16-20 entirely.

>>158194702
>>158194943
>>158195003
>>158195086
When you include another .rc, it "links" the .rc for the corresponding version and server to the .rc you are using. Each server-version has its own folder basically, and they can't search outside of that folder (you probably wouldn't want them to).

I do this by having a second account and copy pasting the contents of my includes into that accounts rc-file, then I just include the name of that account and make a new account/new .rc for new servers/versions.

>>158195498
>having a second account and copy pasting the contents of my includes into that accounts rc-file
Run that by me again
>then I just include the name of that account and make a new account/new .rc for new servers/versions.

I still don't follow. Do I have to make a github page or something?

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>Duvessa speaks Australian English

https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/6e2d87aff978e6bab2b3c940485c1672bbf66623

>>158192124
Eh they're not too bad.

>>158195498
I don't understand how a build with three body passives doesn't get horribly fucked over at some point. Then there's also people who also use poison needle instead of needle shot.

Why don't we play Maj Eyal any more?

>>158195914
We waitan for 1.5

>>158194301
That is the dumbest build I've seen all day, congrats

>>158195734
At the top of my rc:
#Collected HDA rc stuff
include += neizenel.rc

At the top of neizenel's rc:
####################
# Message coloring
####################

# Standard Colors
# black, blue, brown, cyan, darkgrey, green, lightblue, lightcyan, lightgreen,
# lightgrey, lightmagenta, lightred, magenta, red, yellow, white

# Variables for message highlighting
$danger := lightred
$item_dmg := red

etc.

HDA doesn't maintain his rcfile any more. He hasn't for quite some time.

>>158195907
I still did decent damage with Hex and regularly inflicted Panic because of my high Cunning.

>>158195967

build?

>>158196194
>Cannot find file "neizenel.rc". (~/.crawlrc:2)

I wonder if it's just me right now

>>158196386
Probably because I don't have an account on that server.

Make a second account on the server, dump all the HDA stuff you want in it, then link it to your main rc.

>>158196507
Ooooh. Alrighty then. Thanks!

>>158195914
Ever since I won nightmare I just haven't had the urge
Temporal warden is fun as fuck though, even if I did have some space-time related crash once

>>158195967
What's wrong with it?

You know, I was thinking
is there some kind of unicorn or horse tile in dcss
or something that vaguely resembles a horse that's not just a centaur

some nerd that won a reddit adom competition doing a chaos god win
ch.tv/sterroidss/videos/highlights

>>158197031
You can check the spritesheet yourself, just download the local version
I don't think so, though
Elona has a few

>>158197039
>reddit adom competition

Call me back when he ultras a troll archmage

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>>158197039
>reddit adom

>>158197124
funny you should say that, one of the other entries was a gnome archmage, lawful ultimate

>>158197234
gnomes aren't trolls anon

>>158197331
get your racist propaganda out of here, anon
all lives are equal
except for minotaurs

>>158197372
anon please
trolls are big hulking retards that hit things hard until they stop moving
gnomes are magic sissies that are inherently magic
TrWz is actually a challenge background now that you can't farm stats with herbs and crystals of learning anymore.

> Weapon types no longer have distinct strength weights. Strength now only gives a bonus to damage, and dexterity only gives a bonus to accuracy.
dank removal. i, for one, will not miss the old stat formula.

>>158197124
>>158197331
>>158197518
ADoM is literally the easiest roguelike in existence. There is no challenge in winning it no matter how much you gimp yourself.

I mean unless you count browsing a wiki or not killing yourself IRL out of boredom as skills.

>>158197518
Didn't you do your troll archmage when you could still farm herbs and crystals, though?

someone post the andor drakon tiles mspaint drawing
I can't find it

>>158195907
You have like 6 demons dude.

>>158197664

the dankest of the removals so far are rMut and slime vault walls

>>158196914
The giving up the main advantage of a felid part?

>>158197518
Troll archmage isn't a challenge build, its a decent build. Gemology alone makes it worthwhile.

the voodoo mask is so good, but looks so god damn stupid

just imagine obtaining absolute power at the cost of never being able to remove your big green derpy mask

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>>158198012
>implying you wouldn't

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>wake up well rested in basement bedroom connected to main room, which is connected to a hallway filled with traps leading to the stairs going upstairs into my barricaded house, and out into my fortified yard surrounded with spike pits
>turn on flashlight
>lashanda fernandez is standing in the corner, red @
>examine her, she's holding an M1911 and is fleeing from me for some reason
>pull out shotgun that I sleep with just in case this happens
>walk over to her
>she turns around and point blank shoots me in the chest and head
>luckily I was wearing my bone helmet and kevlar vest to bed, but still 36 and 49 damage
>shoot her in the face
did she fucking spawn down here or something, all my doors are closed, my traps aren't set off, and it's pitch black and she didn't have a light source, I'm spooked now, I felt really comfy in my underground lair but this bitch somehow got in and could have just killed me while I was asleep

Also do people even discuss cataclysm anymore

>>158198371
They can spawn literally any where.
If you have dynamic NPCs on you have to put your shit in a crate to avoid retards fucking with it and forcing you to kill them.

>>158198259
I can't quite tell from the art whether its supposed to be THAT mask or a big flat totem thingy. The Mask wouldn't be nearly as bad. The Crown of Glory also freaks me out, sticking to your brain n sheeit.

>>158198441
At least you aren't a sentient sandworm

>>158198430
I have them on at a very low spawn rate, at least. It's been 3/4 of a year and this is the first one that I've seen apart from evac shelter guy who I sadly had to execute. I guess I'll just continue sleeping with a shotgun and armor, it's pretty unlikely I'll get a hostile NPC spawning in my bedroom again anyway, right?

>>158198804
The reason I stopped playing cataclysm like a year ago was actually a NPC spawning with a shotgun and killing me in my LMOE shelter

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>>158197709
>Didn't you do your troll archmage when you could still farm herbs and crystals, though?
Nope.
Public release 60.

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>>158197769

>>158198371
>did she fucking spawn down here or something
Yes.
That's the reason why dynamic NPCs is extremely annoying.

>>158198371
NPCs who are afraid go hostile if you get too close dude.

>>158198867
>>158199182
Good thing the good old click the X in the corner if something absolutely stupid happens like that. I can't be mad if I try to make a hole in a wall and the roof collapses on my head, but especially with the experimental builds sometimes things happen that straight up shouldn't. I don't see why they couldn't just make it so dynamic NPCs don't spawn within like, a kilometre of you or something.

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>>158199467
>savescumming

>>158199510
>I used a bandage on my bleeding torso and somehow ran into a rare bug from the latest experimental that causes your torso health to be set to zero, better restart and lose that 20 hours of progress on that character

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>>158199773
>SAVE
>SCUMMING

>>158199817
s-sorry dad i'll delete my save and start again

>>158197704

>Declaring ADOM easiest when Brogue and The Goblin King's Lair exists

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>>158199879
That's a good boy.

>>158199467
I just quit out of sheer disgust, honestly
>>158199121
Never does get old

>>158195804
I started browsing the enemy comment file and apparently Donald has like 500 lines.

Also,
>orb Crazy Yiuf
>@The_monster@ says, "Wait for me!"
>@The_monster@ says, "You found it!"
>@The_monster@ says, "Get me out of this place."
>@The_monster@ says, "You came back for me."

>>158200281
Huh, I wonder if that's if you let him chase you when you have the Orb? Or maybe for Xom followers in the same situation? Interesting.

>>158200281
>>158200351
It's now canon that you need to rescue Yiuf from the dungeon after collecting the orb to achieve an Ultra Crawl Win

Don't forget that amulet of life-saving!

>>158181153
>imfuckingplying
That's great and all for one enemy, but against giant groups of enemies (sort of like most of the game after Lair), keeping your HP up is way more important.

2 Spiny frogs and a few bad rolls are all it takes to end you if you're just relying on damage only, especially for a 0 AC octopode

>>158199467
Unless you get killed before you can close the game, in which case you can still do it, but things will get WEIRD.

When you die, the world is instantly saved, but the character save isn't deleted until you click "next" a few times. So, if you load a save after your death, your dead body will be lying on the floor where you died, and your entire inventory will be duped.
Basically the same as finding your own bones file after savescumming in Nethack, except it's instant and reliable.

There isn't a morale penalty for butchering your own corpse, but there probably should be.

>>158200351
If you're a Xom worshipper you can understand him. He isn't speaking gibberish, he says other stuff instead. But if you go to him during the Orb run, he'll say those lines regardless of if your worship xom or not.

Are there any Demons who have piercing resistance and other resistances/weaknesses that aren't completely horrible? I was thinking it'd be really cool to use Cththonic Soul Armor and try to emulate one of those summoner hunter hero builds.

>>158186404
Read the manual next time, senpai.

>>158199917
>Brogue
>Easy
This is bait, right? Brogue is fucking brutal, it's just much shorter. Any ADOM player with enough patience can take his time and safely grind stacks of healing items and resistances until all the checkboxes on the little endgame grocery shopping list have been crossed out.

>>158199917
Retard.

>>158200789

>bloatform against giant groups of enemies
>get double-triple tumed cuz muh AC amirite

lol

>>158178215
(school skill*2 + spellcasting*0.5) = 55.7.

If you want a 10% failure rate at 32 int without Wizardry or any other boosters.

>>158156474
Harold Bloom is a shit poster

brogue is a really pretty looking game.

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>>158202249
>Everyone thinks ASCII is shitty letters that can never look good

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What do the names even mean
And why the price variance

>>158202851
Nice, wat game?

>>158202947
Jure's piss is really expensive for obvious reasons.

>>158202968
cogmind

>>158198441
>he doesn't crave to be jim carrey in his role of a lifetime playing an invincible masked bastard
lmao look at this kid lying to himself

>>158201176
people have been playing bands and hacks for so long they forget what the original rogue feels like, so they have this outlandish idea of what "roguelike difficulty" is supposed to be instead

http://donnierussellii.github.io/JSRogue.html
here, have a web port of the original rogue, complete with optional tiles, color and sound effects. give it at least one quick look. it's almost a moral obligation.

>>158202249
it is. but it's also too pretty for its own good. the colors make it nigh impossible to see your detection range and lit/dark areas, so you need to enable 2 (two) color butchering options and turn it into an ugly mess. not cool.

>>158202968
this is cogmind afaik. you can blame the dev for being greedy and terrible at gameplay design, but he does have an eye for impressive ASCII art, animations and UI.

>>158202851
I think it might use more than the regulation 16 colors, but I will admit that cogmind is pretty.
I should probably try to get over my hatred of the developer at some point and at least try it.

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>you can toggle run in CDDA
>I've been walking away from hulks and meese

>>158203591
You know 256 colour terminals have existed for almost 3.5 billion years now, right?

>>158203591
https://mega.nz/#!mIkRQIQL!AjO2c7QdByPZfnbp9Zvi4d7eHwqmK4rnohZDB0haDmw

>>158203167

I did say I liked that idea tho

>>158198773
Poor Leto.

What's a version of CDDA without the pants-on-head retarded "lifting update"?

>>158202947

Those names and price variance are actually just for flavor purposes. They don't mean anything.

>>158206425
>flavor

You mean bloat?

>>158203591

Show me on the @ where the bad developer touched you.

>want to try another roguelike other than dungeon crawl bloat soup
>far too lazy to learn a ton of new mechanics and die the one billion times it is required to gather enough meta knowledge to succeed
>back to otabbing

what the fuck are vi keys? who the fuck thinks those are a good idea?

>>158208803
people without numpads

>>158200896
Scarabs.

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>patch 1.5 is bringing pic related to ToME

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>>158208803
vi-keys are objectively superior

>>158209294
don't do this your knuckles will explode into mustard gas and candleja

>>158208803
the point of vi-keys is to play/navigate with hands at the home row typing position, instead of having the right hand moving around to a numpad and/or mouse.

They're pretty logically arranged, too. The cardinal directions are HJKL on a single line, with the only hard-to-learn pair as K/L (the center two) for up/down. H is the leftmost one and goes left. ; is the rightmost one and goes right. y/u are your upwards diagonals (and are above the home row), b/n are your downwards diagonals and are below the home row.

>>158210069

The way your hands are positioned when vi-key'ing is way less optimal to numpad and most likely bad for your hands too. Your right hand is positioned straight to the numpad making it more desirable

>>158209248
Love the concept, hate the artstyle. Oh well, it's an improvement at least.

>>158210417
>the home row typing position
anon if you have trouble with your hands being too close together in home row typing you should consider a split keyboard

it's literally where a typist's hands live

>>158208803
Programmers who use vim all the time. I think it's a silly trend that shouldn't be forced. It blocks a lot of people out of the genre because of how unusual it is.

This is why I make WASD the default, or sometimes the only option for the roguelikes I make.

>having a numpad
If you aren't playing on a toaster, why are you even here?

>>158210596
I have a toaster though. I have 1 Gb of ram.

You know keyboards have numpads, right

>>158210417
>>158210553
btw I don't suggest this as mockery
I use one myself

>>158210596
numpad is godtier movement. WASD and arrow keys are inferior in everyway. Move with your right hand and blast dudes with your left hand.

>>158207021
When I heard that the developer had deliberately set the price obnoxiously high, not expecting people to pay it but hoping to generate discussion, I was so offended that I decided I wouldn't even pirate it. I felt that if I downloaded it, I'd be playing right into his scheme. Participating, in however small a way, in the generation of hype.
Basically, the only way to "win" at the stupid mind game he had set up, was to refuse to play.

I feel pretty much the same way about Adobe allegedly not caring about individuals pirating Photoshop, because once they learn to use it they'll want a licence to do any serious commercial work. Fuck those guys, I'm not pirating anything until they apologise for the ridiculous price they asked.

>>158203954
Well, thanks, I guess. I'll think about it.

>>158210860

How is tilting your right hand at an awkward angle in any way good when numpad is an option? I don't get it

>>158205648
What lifting update?

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>>158211303
you are Int 1 ***BRAINLESS*** and did not read, you retarded kobold

>>158210734
You should either be using a laptop, or the kind of narrow-form-factor keyboard they sell for coders, with plastic flaps in all the keys to make them louder.

>He hasn't saved Yiuf and ascended with him, brothers in arms
What is your excuse, naga?

>>158211769

>buying a special snowflake keyboard
>when numpad is an option

shiggy

>>158213390
>having a shitter crap-paying job that doesn't involve heavy keyboarding

>>158213479

>implying you have a job
>can't even buy a 5$ keyboard with a numpad

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>>158213479
>having a sedentary job
>sitting in a chair all day hunched over
Enjoy your carpal tunnel and bad posture.

>>158213479
>having a shitter crap-paying job that doesn't involve heavy keyboarding

>having a white collar job

Well, at least I don't have your fat gut.

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>>158213723
>>158213759
>>158214268

>>158214450
What did he mean by this?

>>158214450
I don't understand, but then again I don't really care.

>>158214450
I'm not sure what this is supposed to be, but the person in that picture is still sitting down

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I have a crazy idea:
Instead of shitting up the thread with work talk instead post roguelikes.

Also why did I start another PCB character and why is it a mage

>>158214952
>Also why did I start another PCB character and why is it a mage

Same reason because you're not playing pseudoelliposchengmpaband and you're jsut playing boring poscheng.

Because you hate yourself.

>>158215378
i'm playing elliposchengband because anon hasn't updated pseudo

hmm you might be right about the hating self part

maybe I'll scrap this mage and start a lazy sorcery rogue instead. I've still never assembled the lazy 3 and I want to. Rogue and sorcery realm are ideal for safely sniffing out items and counteracting some of lazy's weaknesses until one can go for morgy (heh, the easiest one of the 3). Also a rogue can actually get an okay-ish number of blows with the Stick, unlike a lazy mage which would still cap at 4...though they could probably do pretty great things with the energy use nonsense of the yumi.

>>158215460
>i'm playing elliposchengband because anon hasn't updated pseudo

Bullshit, it's been updated to 5.0.2 like two weeks ago.
You probably just have the old link

>>158215848
oh I just saw that ellipos merged something 2 days ago

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Was tabbing and not looking like a tard, Guessing a lot of people don't continue their cycle?

>>158211290

That...is the weirdest excuse to hate someone. I can understand not liking the price but all that other shit...wow.

>>158215906
oh come on you can't be that anal about updates

besides 5.0 sucks major balls like seriously what the fuck

Making a skinner box game less grindy?
What is even the point? Chris has gone insane.

>>158215998
Why haven't you updated to the newest version?

>>158216048
I didn't see until now that the ellipos merge was something in d_info.txt so probably some minor thing related to his unified dungeon setting, I assumed it was something more substantial or some new quality of life addition

checking now to see exactly what the merge was but probably I'll just set up pseudo

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>>158216284
AHH
AHHHH
anon I want to help you but I have no idea
I've been curious but never played Demon

Ahhhh

Yes? No? Maybe so!

Do Will o' Wisps in Demon have a HP penalty if you use them as a soul armor? They are level 1 with vitality 9, but no speed bonus so I assume the problem (28 hp) is that.

Either Cththonic Carbuncle (slashing, impact, light, mind, cold vuln resist; or Holy Will o' Wisp (resist phys, resist light?, body immune, vuln lightning and darkness) sound like really nice soul armors, especially as I'm trying to recreate the shield paladin who wrecks whole demon armies.

Of the two, Cththonic Carbuncle seems like the overall superior choice, but total immunity to poison/infection/etc. sounds real nice.

>pseudoellipos puts a 99% price reduction on RK
>also they lose all their spells and only keep their runes

What the heck. Now it's just a glorified warrior that can't bend the game. How is that fun.

>>158216429
Sorry, I was reading your post and realized too late I responded to somebody's post.

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>>158216429
>>158216482
Don't you make me look like a crazy person! I SAW IT! I SAWWWWW ITTT I SWEARRRR

>>158216517
Do they actually lose their spells? I kindof doubt it.... The price reduction thing is fine IMO, but the spells are part of the class. And I have no problem with some classes being just better than others as a challenge level thing...that's basically what the animal monster races are for after all (challenge races).

>>158216656
>Do they actually lose their spells?

All of them, man.
They just keep the basic runes, lose all their SP and rune shit with their health.

>>158216183
Cause I haven't?

>>158162708
minotaur
troll
that one type of elf that they removed that was good at transmutations

i dont really play or have interest in playing most races

>>158216745
man now that makes me want to run an elliposchengband (not despelled pseudoellipos) lazy RK just so I can put that sweet sweet death rune on the Stick and then transform into a demonlord and cast manastorm

or like, die to a crystal drake at 25

>>158217041
actually the RK is a change of ellipos.

Not pseudo.

>>158162708
naga
cat
demonspawn
high elf
spriggan

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oh shit I'd have to un-nerf the stick first though
back to its old 1dHuge instead of 8d8, for weaponmastery abuse purposes

Must surpass my balrog that had Vilya pumping up a 1d30 Blade of Chaos[Wild]

And I've always disliked the Stick nerf...IMO in a game like PosChengband there's no real reason to reduce the scope of the win-more dream. A unnecessarily-win-more-eventually is already enough to win, so why not allow it to be more insane? Seems pretty arbitrary.

>>158217228
>another fork
>adding yet another name to pseudoelliposchengmpaband
MADMAN

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>>158217228
also I realized like 2 weeks after that serpent fight that I did the whole thing with 0% confusion resist, but never got confused. Ghahah.

Still had nothing on the speed of elliptic's entry in the latest oook andriod berserker comp. I watched the termcast and the whole fight lasted like 12 seconds, maybe not even. Amazing what you can accomplish when the serpent elects not to summon.

Is it plausible for my DrTr to learn Shatter? I'm trying to get it online before Vaults:5, but i'm not sure if i'm gonna make it.

>>158217640
Shatter is a very meh spell to rely on. Huge points detour, would absolutely not recommend teching up to Shatter in any situation.

The only time I ever endorse Shatter is if someone is going full earth mage, earth staff, possible statue form, possible crystal spear (leaning on earth in addition or instead of heavy conjuration). Don't expect it to handle crowds like Tornado, Firestorm, etc.

>>158217640
No? You're already splitting pretty hard. just be a full EE. Iron shot easily wins.

>>158217468
>elliptic
>playing androids
that's funny because he's the closest thing to a robot I can think of.