/tosg/ - Tree of Savior General

non

What class do you guys think we be the most popular once the open beta is released? I would say Shinobi since weeaboos love that shit

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Is this the Brazilian Server appreciation Thread? <3

>>135099335
oui

What is even the point of talking about a game that is clearly never coming out?

Reminder that iOBT starts TODAY.

C'est fini.

>>135099357
>spoiler
it takes long as fuck. and timing and luck to get the quest done. not many normie fags will actually get that class.

>>135099357
Probably the "hidden" classes, we're going to get a flood of mediocre Clerics and Wizards
>Implying international plebs will be able to endure the hassle of the Shinobi quest

>>135099357
hahaman or qs3

>>135099523
>normie fags
Your unholy abomination of a word is going to bring us ruin and misery till the release of the International Open Beta

>>135099637
anyone ever notice that a heart looks like upside down testicles?

>4chin falls for a photoshoped picture

>>135099357
Seems like a lot of people are rolling Archer, specifically Musketeer (me included most likely). Also seen a lot of people who plan on rolling Archer C3 for some reason even though it's shit.

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plz lets not talk about RO on this thread ok!
iobt soon tm

>>135099026
Where do you wrap the white flag in that rifle?

>>135099709
>is going to bring us ruin and misery
thread is full of that since iOBT_never news

>>135099856
Je l'utilise comme une baïonnette afin que je puisse pousser dans le cul

>>135099846

Tell that to the "soul communion" psychopath.

>>135100060
But i barley even played RO, as ive already explained. RO was cute, thats it. Cute.

What am i? Batman?

>>135100269
Ill report you son of a fucker

One more hour until IMC staff drive their sports cars to work.

SOON!

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So, how hard do you think my dick will get sucked if i forgo a DpS class for a crafting/utility class? It seems Squire 2 or Paladin/Pardoner are the ones with the most fellatio potential.

>>135100614

Stop it, it's not going to happen

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>>135100614
>implying they work more then 1 day a week
thinkin about it.. i should prolly send a application to imc. 'working' there sounds chill

>>135100775

I believe!

>>135100698
squires do the sucking anonymous, not the other way around

Aenslut

Give me Talt, /tosg/!

>>135100698

Why does every little support faggot think they are going to get their dick sucked? Clerics are everywhere, nobody is going to give a single shit about you.

I want to have the most enjoyable/fastest leveling experience possible. What class(es) are best for this?

>>135103102
That's entirely subjective

Which classes would be good to have if I'm going for wugushi c3?

>>135103320
Ranger-Archer2-Wugu3-Musk or Cannon

>>135103090
Don't bully.

Of the useful support builds, what one has the easiest time soloing?

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>>135103090
You swordsmen disgust me, acting so high and mighty, but when you face death you come running back to me begging for heals

>>135103262
I mean a class that levels fast and doesnt have to deal with insane mana issues or dumb class mechanics.

>>135099026
That is not french, that is google-translate-tier french.

Tu me déçois, OP.

>>135104123
Hahaman2

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Reminder to save all your Talt when iOBT comes!

>>135099856
>Where do you wrap the white flag in that rifle?
http://www.militaryfactory.com/battles/french_military_victories.asp

>>135104123
>I mean a class that levels fast
I don't know if there's a significant diference in levelling between classes. If you want something even easier then >>135104281

>>135104209
I'm sorry, I can only somewhat understand written French, just thought it'd be nice to have a French edition. Great language though

>>135104080
I have a jew alchemist friend, i got enough pots for me.

>>135103320
You ask the same question every thread senpai, we've been answering the same every time

>>135103562
Why a single point in ranger instead of going archer 3 or ranger 2

STAFF_John at this time is on his way to IMC, guys...just some more minutes...

>>135103320
>>135104743
Though I would suggest Archer - Ranger C2 - Wugu C2 - Falconer - Musketeer

And if you're dead set on Wugu C3
Archer - Ranger C2 - Wugu C3 - Musketeer

>>135104787
Because Archer 3 sucks (especially without Falconer) and Ranger-Archer2 is better than Ranger2.

>>135104640
>I'm sorry, I can only somewhat understand written French, just thought it'd be nice to have a French edition. Great language though

It's alright. Was surprised to see the OP in french, I thought you were french at first.

>>135104640
>just thought it'd be nice to have a French edition
Yes, you absolutely don't look like a total shitter straight outta /b/. Good thing nobody reads the OP. Or is it, considering the amount of newfriends /tosg/ might be getting soon.

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>>135104451
O fuck

>>135104873

24 minutes until they start work.

SOON

IF NOT I'LL BOMB IMC

>>135104951
No it isn't senpai. Barrage 10 is very powerful, and steady aim 10 for Musketeer is godlike.

What are you getting archer 2 for? Swift step? Kek

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>>135104873
>STAFF_John
Hes a phony!

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So, finally iOBT has been released!

How's your leveling going, /tosg/? I'm having a blast, I didn't remember the game being so fun.

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where

>>135105335
Cash shop.

>>135104451
I am thinking of not playing a Templar as my first character in iTOS. Though I am definitely making one eventually.

>>135105113
Are you sincerey implying it's hard to understand what

>ToS Info
>FAQ
> Serveurs
> Anglais patch pour KTOS
> Projet officiel Traduction
> F.O.E Timers

mean? The previous thread is also linked in the OP, which has the same shit but in English

Does Bloodletting prevent all of the Diev statues debuff (cooldown, slow, silence)? What rank are they?

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>hoplite/dragoon
>rank 6
wat do

Good morning yall, hows it going?
I just arrived at IMC and everyone is looking forward for iobt, ill come back soontm before official announce and Tell you on first hand!

>>135105868
fuck off

>>135105218
Difference between Barrage 5 and 10 is ~150 base damage. Even though it hits multiple times it's not much. Multishot 10 is way better and 100% uptime of a 25% crit rate buff is most likely better than 15% more damage 60% of the time.

>>135105868

I LOVE YOU

>>135106105
I disagree desu

>>135106105
You're rationalizing things wrong. You don't get Ranger2 for more Barrage, you get it for more Steady Aim.

>>135106105
Multi shot falls off massively at later levels. The 15% more damage from steady aim never falls off.

Is there some niche archer build that still is valuable for parties and good for solo?

>>135103090
It's RO mentality, they expect to be a linker or FS priest making some useless build tha tonly works in parties, and since no one wants to play a buff bitch they're usually rare

this game was actually designed around avoiding that, evne if you have 3 circles of support you should still be competent to deal some damage, priest/chaplain/memedoctor being the prime example, but people still want to build this 0 damage builds with support skills to be rare and get attention.

I don't blame them, I rather be a special cookie than another meme among thousands, but whatever party finder progression will make niche builds useless anyways.

>>135106968
Archers are DPS, so as long as they have enough survivability anything can be good for solo, given that you've got enough AoE.

Hunters are the kings of Survivability, while Wugushi and Falconer bring some of the best AoE potential.

>>135105752
Doppel

>>135106968
Archer - Ranger 3 - Fletcher - Falconer - Musketeer

>>135107283
Ranger is better for AoE than wugu, lower cds and such.

There's a reason ranger is the only archer class on tier 2 of the pve tier list.

http://m.inven.co.kr/board/powerbbs.php?come_idx=4185&l=9360

>>135107367
Everyone going to roll that build.

>>135107283
Do you think wugushi c3 is good?

Wait
Didn't they remove Hoplite's 1-hand spear attribute and throw it in the trash, not even giving them to Dragoons?

>>135107592
There is hoplite attribute to learn how21hspear.

>>135107283
>hunters are the kings of survivability
what? mind explaining that a bit?

are you talking about pve or pvp? and do you need the 3 full circles? 2 seems fine, but 3 is a bit overkill.

>>135107718
Yeah.
Cataphracts have that, AND a attribute to give 2-hand spears block penetration for two-hand spears.
Dragoons have that, AND a attribute to give 2-hand spears more damage to large enemies
Hoplites have that, and no "bonus" attribute.

>>135106418
Of course you get it for more Steady Aim, i just said the difference between Barrage 5 and 10 isn't big because:
>>135105218
>Barrage 10 is very powerful

And i'm not sure if 15% more dmg with 60% uptime is better than 25% crit rate with 100% uptime. But you also get another skill to use with Multishot 10.

>>135106584
It's still another skill you can use and with Ranger2 you literally only get more Steady Aim. Plus if Multishot 10 falls off then so does Barrage, yet people still use it constantly later on.

>>135107545
No, there are better options than Wugu C3, as you miss the falconer + musk combo with it

Some of you guys are alright. Don't go to forums in 2 hours.

>>135106105
>Multishot 10 is way better
Covering Fire> Multi shot 10 in every regard

>>135108342
What's your point? You're not trading one for the other.

whats a good chronomancer build and is it actually fun?

>>135108765
Fuck off, you have asked it multiple times already.

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Just hug me, someone.

>>135108921
its my first time asking about chrono and my first time seriously considering wizard

>>135107739
With Hunter3 you get growling, which cowardly kills any difficulty in PvE as you can permanently fear-lock any monster, including elites.

With Hunter C1 you can get Coursing, which instantly stuns, binds, and quickly murders ANYTHING that isn't a boss. With Hunter C2 you get the best revealing skill in the game: Hounding. It's the best thing for PvP when there are scouts on the other side.

So basically:

Hunter C1: Disable and murder anything on very short cooldown and nearly no restrictions + Rushdog for DPS

Hunter C2: Even more Rushdog. You get Fetching which will murder any flying monsters, including bosses. Hounding for hunting Archers in PvP.

Hunter C3: The ultimate PVE CC skill.

>>135109198
>chronomancer
>actually wizard
:D

>>135109165

I too want the game to just release already Umaru

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>>135109165

How does Squires arrest work against bosses?

>>135109246
But pet is 148% retarded.

>>135108630
I'm just not very fond of Multi Shot like most seem to be. Musketeer already has three (4 if you use Penetration Shot) low cooldown skills and Barrage has 3 overheat on 18s cooldown.

>>135105629
Yes, it does, they must be Rank 1 or 2

>>135109401
Same way it works in everything else

>>135108765
This is the current top chrono build in Korea, enjoy!

http://www.tosbase.com/tools/skill-simulator/build/ezocdfhk9t/

>>135107545
There's a reason everyone will roll that build.

It's simply superior to every other archer build.

>>135109676
>http://www.tosbase.com/tools/skill-simulator/build/ezocdfhk9t/
What a terrible build...

Pyro2Link or Cryo3 is better for a Chrono 3.

>>135109427
You need to learn how to deal with it. I've been meaning to make a viual guide, but here's a quick rundown.

Imagine the pet is tied to you with a rubberband. When you move it extends, and a short time after it contracts and drags the pet close to you. With higher ping the rubberband is more or less elastic. Imagine that moving and positioning the pet works as if you were dragging a prisoner ball with this rubberband.

The pet will only obey a non-buff command if they're within a certain range from you. You have to try and get a feel for it, but it's pretty obvious after a bit of playing with it.

The pet gives 0 fucks about what you're targetting, it only cares about the general direction your character is facing. Once again, only experience will teach you how to properly target something, and yes, sometimes you will have to be pretty much touching a monster and then use the skill facing it so your pet will properly target it.

Once you've learned how to properly drag, position, and command the pet, it's pretty easy.

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>want to be QS /fortress/ build
>class turns into a meme

>want to do Musketeer/Falconer
>somehow it turns into a meme build as well

The only gimmick build left in my mind is Final Fantasy Dragoon with hoplite jumping.

>>135110114
Just roll what you enjoy, not what's popular.

Beside, most players will come from Steam frontpage and will not roll an optimal build.

>>135110114
You are meme version of Midas. Memidas.

>>135109401
Boss stops walking and continues to pound your ass mercilessly.

>>135110474
At least your party members will have time to heal/reapply buffs/charge their attacks/laugh at your poor choice of class

>>135110114
Play what you want senpai.

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>>135110474
>no dj of Pios getting pounded by the boss while using Arrest and everyone is watching it
>Cattly is masturbating in the corner

>>135110786
I guess squires are only for repairing stuff huh

>>135110067
what are you playing/going to play with a hunter?

QS3>hunter3?

>>135107897
Wait, Cataphract can use 1h spears?

>>135111329
They don't have the one-handed spear mastery, so they need dragoon or hoplite to wield one-handed spears.

Is there any Cataphract build worth its salt for Earth Tower?

>>135111202
Before my laptop broke and I got some forced offtime, I was making an Anti-Archer Archer. It was Archer Ranger Hunter Scout Hunter. Getting Cannoneer at Rank7 but I was still undecided for Rank6.

The idea was to Cloak with Hounding on. That allows me to walk around while revealing all cloaked Archers around me. Once I've revealed a target, proceed to bully with Coursing + Flare Shot, while keeping the Cannoneer skills for non-archer targets.

QS3 doesn't have good synergy with Hunter.

>>135111679
Standard sword -> hahaman -> cata c3 -> dragoon has decent enough damage if properly geared and stat'ed.

>>135111916
Highlander really? What are the main skills used? Are you supposed to Skyline/Dismount-mount toggle?

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Cowboy class when

Didn't we get enough spamable skills with cata and dragoon together? You really need hahaman?

Are there maps with great respawn/density at high level (250+) or did IMC kill that too?

>>135112103
Huh, pretty sure Sky Liner can be used while mounted.
Was it changed recently?

Anyway, Sky Liner is just a filler you won't even use that much because Dragoon and Cataphract skills have pretty short cooldows, you can create a nice rotation with them and fill the gaps with buffs/Sky Liner/Crown.

>>135112310
cowboy and indus

>>135112456
Is there an official list of skills that can be used while mounted?

Also, if Skyliner is just filler, why not go with Peltasta for aggro?

>>135112707
When you said Cataphract build I thought you meant a damage dealer.
If you're going to tank ET I don't think a Cataphract build is your best choice.

>>135113016
No I didn't necessarily meant Tank, just anything Cataphract, but I assumed no damage dealing swordie would be accepted there.

I also didn't know Skyliner worked with Cat.

>>135112707
>Is there an official list of skills that can be used while mounted?

No, but we do have a list of skills that CAN'T be used while mounted in the pastebin.

http://pastebin.com/kYg8wfrF

Pretty sure its up-to-date since Running Shot is no longer on there, but that was awhile ago.

>PvP is a unbalanced mess
welp
guess ill start a pve toon first, then

>>135113406
Thank you.

>>135113406

wat, you can't be qs + reitar properly?

STAFF_Ethan is online guys! SOON

REAL SOON I PROMISE

>>135113635
>toon
ton*
And why the fuck would you make a ton of characters before even trying out PvP? One or Two PvE characters is a fine number.

>>135113635
just play a Musketeer and go around one-shotting people, it's pretty fun

>>135113957
You must be 18 to post here, anon.

>>135113635
>>135114062
Lose weight

>>135113957
are you stupid?

Is synchro thrusting still shit?

>>135113774
Since you can use Running Shot while mounted, and that's what essentially QS has become and known for. QS + SR kind of works to an extent I guess.

>>135110114
No one plays QS like a /fortress/, you could still go for a gimmicky build like, for instance

https://tos.neet.tv/skill-planner#3133559f.15244551.182a35415561.1a273141516575.253545.15243145

>>135113635

>toon

Reminder that /v/ makes fun constantly of people who refer to their characters as "toons". This post belongs to reddit.

>>135113997
>stone skin

>>135114362
I guess. Less shit after that buff tho.

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Vote: http://strawpoll.me/7058839/

>>135114673
>What's teamwork

>>135115893
pls translate the pic

>>135115893
>only 3 full dps wizards
Who /megumin/ here?

>>135117572
Meteor sucks too much to go full /megumin/.
Maybe if they buffed the % portion or made it scale.

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Why are modern MMOs so fucking dogshit? When will developers stop making these railroaded themeparks with zero life, soul, or community interaction?

the cross-server dungeon finder with 600% exp bonus was the final nail in the coffin for this game

>>135117572
is wizard3-kino-cryo-rune count as dps? :^)

>>135118129
nobody wants to task risk while developing multi million budget games, so they copy WoW (mindless quest chain, instances, dailies, solo friendly).

>>135115893
It's my fourth or fifth time voting for 'Other'.

>>135118129
is this new interface? or some old one?

>>135118129
>themepark
niceme.me

>>135118183
I think so.

>>135117921
Well, I'm getting it anyway!

>>135118358
old one

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>>135118183
>wizard3-kino-cryo-rune
https://tos.neet.tv/skills/41005
Might want to reconsider that build.

>>135118606
it's better without that ugly sad faces

when is soon?

>>135118942
Winter 2014

>>135118129
believe it or not they actually listen to the community

It's the minority that wants endless grind with no definitive progress direction and ultra rare drops. The majority loves/wants numb daily objectives, corridor progression and no hardships to get gear and what not.

>>135119150
The same majority that jumps ship every new mmo that comes out.

EVE has shown that the key to long term success in an mmo is targeting a niche.

>>135118129

i miss sitting in the front of a dungeon trying to join a party with !! LFP, DPS/CC on my cryokino.

Go complain in the forum. STAFF_John doesn't browse /tosg/.

Best build for going into Shinobi?

>>135120043
>STAFF_John doesn't browse /tosg/.
Lies!

>>135120043
He's always watching anon.

>>135119502
EVE has too many players, you can't say they're all niche players.

EVE is a long lasting game simply because it's the single most expansive and complex online game ever conceived.

>>135120118
>playing hahamen

peltassta>rodelero>squire>shinobi

>>135120118
Sword C3 - Pelt - Corsair C2 - Shinobi

>>135120118
Shinobi clones only use swordsmen skills, so you probably want to abuse Swordsman3. Get Hoplite for the crit, too.

>>135120405
>hahamen

I don't understand what this means. Does Shinobi suck dick? Don't all swordsmen all just kinda suck dick? Isn't that what you pretty much sign up for when you pick swordsman?

>>135120745
Swordsman and Kunai. I'm not sure about Hoplite since you're going to build with lots of DEX to begin with if you want your clones to have any health.

>>135120830
>Does Shinobi suck dick?
I don't know, what do you think?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qw2LkLzqK_4

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>>135118129
>I come back to check how's the game doing hoping it's not as themepark as before
>come back to THIS

I'm done.

>>135121367
Bye.

>>135121087
>269 chinobi
>139 boss

this proves nothing, may as well go kill popollions

>>135121087
How is this possible. Even if it's 5x Kunai with 2x damage, it's still just Kunai.

>>135121496
Even considering the gap, it's only about 2x more damage from each hit. It's still too much.

>>135121367
See you next thread.

>>135121496
He dealt 337.466 damage with 1 skill.

>>135121367
no one cares autismo

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>>135121425
>>135121646
>>135121791
>themepark baby has to samefag this hard
here's your (You) (You) (You)

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>>135122067
Keep telling yourself that m8

>>135122436
shit on

>>135122067
lose weight

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>>135122436
woah so hard m8

>>135122576
>replying to yourself

>>135122842
>you will never be this pathetic

thank god

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>>135122842

Ok, you found out m8

>>135120830
They are too suicidal for my liking. Might be great if you have a pet healer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YBqN3N9v2k

to quote a previous anon
>While the burst looks impressive, koreans are saying you're better off just spamming memeliner at everything.
>Clones increase your damage taken by something like 80%, and divide your evasion by the number of clones.
>You get more burst with the clones, but it's pretty much only for kunai, swordsman skills suck and AAs don't mirror 100%.
>All the while you have the survivability of a pure INT wizard.

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>>135122960
>says the themepark apologist

>>135123161
A-at least it looks cool?

>>135123258
>replying more than once
Autistic as fuck.

>>135123356
keep going desu senpai

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>>135122067
I don't know m8. It's quite hard to change the texts on mobile.

>>135123505
It's not actually

IM SO BORED

OPEN BETA WHEN? REEEEEEEEEEE

>>135123179
don't you have some more threads to make on /v/ crying about how WoW ruined mmos for you and istances are stopping you from making friends?

>>135123590
*quite autistic

>>135123846
>defending instances
As expected of themepark babies

>>135123921
woah, that's not an autistic wall of text, you need to apply yourself or your pathetic whining will get you nowhere

>>135124012
I have no idea what you tried to say so I'll just call you a themepark baby again.

>>135124098
sorry, evidently your IQ is too low, i apologize

>>135124181
Damn, sick burn bro

>>135124181
stop replying to me

>>135124343
hello lad

>>135124181
Fedoragnificent.

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>I will never meet a real girl in a game
>I will never have an AI daughter
>I will never kirito a MMORPG

>>135124343
ok

>>135123179
Cute Umi dude.

https://youtu.be/sgNP5lgO1HE

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>people are flinging shit on each other now
It's all because this dumb beta hasn't released yet.

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>>135124462
But you will soon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcGhGEfHdWs

>>135124689
why the fuk would i want to play some shitty mmorpg like sao

i want to play ToS

>>135124689
It's just a marketing VR video son, sorry to disappoint.

>>135124940
Because ToS is shit and not VR.

>>135122842
>>135122067
>>135121367
>>>/jadedgaymingexperts/

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>>135124668
Yes because there was no shitflinging at all when the ibeta was up, right? All the kids totally behaved here in this thread and ingame, right?

>>135125396
Well, it's about to get worse at least.

>>135104914
Isn't Musketeer completely worthless in PvE without Falconer? And isn't Musketeer pretty damn good damage in the first place?

>>135107283
Falconer is only good for Musketeer and support if you're bringing melee DPS along.

>>135107545
I think Ranger2/Wugushi3/Cannoneer is more DPS than Falconer/Musketeer. Granted, I've never see Cannoneer in action, but looking at the tooltips' damage and the cooldowns, it's not hard to see why I'd come to that conclusion. Besides, Wugong Gu does way more damage than Snipe, which seems to cap out at 99,999 damage on crits.

>>135112391
Absolutely, need at least one spam skill in your build somewhere if you plan on being DPS swordsman.

>>135104451
gax/honey version when

>>135125396
Can't wait for all the people who "called out" attention whores being the new attention whores

A-ANY MINUTE NOW

>>135125821
Musketeer does far more damage than cannoneer.
Cannoneer was completely useless before the snipe aoe range nerf. Now it can at least pretend it's better at aoe, at least if you do not have a linker otherwise musketter wins again.

>>135126371
It's lunch time in Korea. Maybe in a couple hour hours.

grinding > questing
the only fun part in a quest is when you're mowing monsters down

prove me wrong, babbies

https://forum.treeofsavior.com/t/open-beta-release-date/144640

So it wasn't march 14th

>>135126634
But I agree.

>>135126453
How is that so? Shouldn't Cannon Blast and Snipe be somewhat similar in damage? Shouldn't Cannon Shoot at least do a good portion of the damage Covering Fire does due to its lower cooldown and higher damage bonus?

>>135126634
Only WoW babbies and casuals will disagree.

>>135126689
https://forum.treeofsavior.com/t/go-fuck-yourself-john-you-fucking-liar/142299

>>135126909
dont click this link it gave me terminal stage 3 cancer

>>135126850
Mindlessly killing the same 2-3 monsters in the same room for days on end is worse than boring quests where you fight different monsters in different locations and with bosses sprinkled here and there.

>>135126909
Why the fuck would you do that?

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>>135126909
Which one of you girls is this?

>>135127070
So are you a wow baby or a casual?

>>135127070
>bosses sprinkled here and there.
Have you played the game?

>>135127070

Quests prevent you from grouping.
Quests are repetitive as hell, especially if you reroll. It doesn't matter if there is monster variety when half the quests are talk to x npc, activate y button on the map, come back to npc, rinse repeat.

Quests are a nightmare if you reroll, as you have to do the linear progression all over again.

>>135127070
No, fuck off.

Grinding is so bad in this game compared to quests that if a friend is in a different quest than you, the more progressed one has to wait the other.
That's fucking bullshit, themeparks are inherently SHIT game design for online games.

>>135127070
The cutscene quest bosses are probably the most boring part of ToS.

>>135127070
So you never played Diablo? Mindless killing if the combat is fun and your teamates are cool if fucking good.

Following the boring mindless quests in a linear pattern is not.

Good mob density and good combat system blow the fuck out of any of your quest hub baby game. The mindless quests is what killed Wildstar btw.

>>135127773
have more than one character then one for your friends and one for you.

>>135126767
it's mostly due to covering fire being a godly skill, cannoneer can't really compete in term of single target damage when this exists. Add snipe which does significantly higher damage than burst and headshot and cannoneer simply cannot come close.

Personally i'd argue even fletcher 3 is stronger than cannoneer, i'm actually get triggered every time that one random anon who hates musketeer and cannoneer says he is doing a bad decision skipping those for fletcher 3 so i end up leaving the thread since it's not my safespace.

>>135127984
>more than one character
And redo the same boring quests twice? Nope.

>>135127984
>just make more characters XDD

Do you, by any chance, play DFO?

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So Earth Tower is going to be the benchmark for PVE classes now? They're already tiering them accordingly on Korean forums. Anything that is not Tier 1/2 (only a handful builds) is considered garbage...

Guildwars 2 Dungeon elitism/cancer all over again, thanks IMC.

>>135127984
So you are telling me that themepark is not inherently shit game design because you can just REPEAT THE WHOLE GAME AGAIN AND EVERY EACH OF THE SHITTY QUESTS each time a friend starts playing?

Kill yourself holy shit

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>>135128096
>>135128105
>>135128285

>Can't stand repetition

MMO's are clearly not for you then.

Go play a MOBA or one of your sandbox circle jerk games faggots.

>>135127984
Confirmed moba shitter

>>135128280
ET might get nerfed when more endgame stuff like it are released in the future.

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>themepark shitter BTFO by the entire general

Shocking!

>>135128403
Autists can stand mindnumbing repetition, which you clearly are.

>>135128489
Is it gonna matter if all they introduce is claustrophobic dungeons with copy/paste levels?

>>135127441
You mean you didn't notice the bosses the quests throw at you every now and then? Have YOU played the game?

>>135127532
>quests prevent you from grouping
Unless you're using a voice program to chat with your friends, that won't matter since there won't be much chatter in the first place.

>quests are repetitive as hell
And grinding is far worse since you don't fight different monsters, don't fight bosses, don't have quest text to read (assuming you read it in the first place) and you don't see a change in scenery.

>especially if you reroll
Irrelevant. Quests are boring the first time through and they're boring the 10th time through.

>it doesn't matter if there is monster variety
How would you feel playing a game with 1 enemy that looks like a square, named Square, that gives varied xp/drops based on where it spawns in the world? Variety is extremely important.

>when half the quests...
More like 99% of the quests. Still better than sitting in one spot for days on end.

>quests are a nightmare if you reroll
Already addressed that.

>as you have to do the linear progression all over again
Which is far better than spending 2-3 fucking days, if not more, with your feet rooted in one spot. Ya, linear progression sucks compared to being able to tackle whatever strongest monster you or your party can challenge efficiently, but it's STILL better than doing a mind numbingly repetitive task day after day.

Maybe you were born to be a factory worker? Maybe you didn't have enough toys as a child? Who knows? But the end result is the same: you're fucking retarded for thinking that repeating the exact same action for hours on hours on end with no variance and no excitement is better than an option with variance and excitement involved, even if that involves repeating the same path more than once if you decide to level a different character.

>>135128550
im proud of you guys ;_;
at least we can suffer togeather

>>135128280
Classes that are good for Earth Tower will be shit for Fire, Water, Lightning, Dark and Holy Tower.

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>>135128581
Autists are the only people who play MMO's anyway for fucksakes you're retarded.

>>135128648
>And grinding is far worse since you don't fight different monsters, don't fight bosses, don't have quest text to read (assuming you read it in the first place) and you don't see a change in scenery

What kind of BS is this?
You don't stay in 1 map forever you dumb fuck, you move every now and then.

Also, what are world bosses?

>reading quest text
HAHAHAHAH

>>135128581
>Autists can stand mindnumbing repetition
That explains the "give me grinding" faggots

>>135128280
ET doesn't has a party finder, you have to rely on koreans for groups since most of the high level english players aren't playing anymore (aka half of myst)

>>135128648
>You mean you didn't notice the bosses the quests throw at you every now and then?
More like they throw them at you every 3 minutes. Atleast on the Klaipeda side, Orsha is a bit better in that regard. And they are all mind-numbingly boring.

>>135128694
They don't even play. If they play they won't be sperging out all the time like this.

Seriously. Go buy a kTOS account and play already if you're so bored. iOBT will never come out.

>>135128682
You forgot Poison Tower.

>>135128648
>Maybe you were born to be a factory worker? Maybe you didn't have enough toys as a child? Who knows? But the end result is the same: you're fucking retarded for thinking that repeating the exact same action for hours on hours on end with no variance and no excitement is better than an option with variance and excitement involved, even if that involves repeating the same path more than once if you decide to level a different character.

The combat is fun. I play MMOs for combat and social interaction, what do I care about some shitty fedex quests or poorly written lore, when in the end, all quests do is disguise the combat, which you will do anyway?

You never played Diablo so you wouldn't understand.

Quests are finite, throwaway content that don't belong in a massively multiplayer game, as they emphasize solo play.

Fighting mobs with friends is what's fun. Not following some dumb quest line.

It's like saying FPS are boring because all you do is kill players in a map? Guess what, the soccial interaction and combat makes it fun, faggot.

If I wanted decent quest and lore I'd play a solo RPG or read a book.

>>135128648
>Unless you're using a voice program to chat with your friends, that won't matter since there won't be much chatter in the first place.
There is literally a party finder now, retard.

>And grinding is far worse
That's wrong, though. If it was just grinding it would be a different progression path depending on your class and gear along with number of party members.

>literally the rest of the post is "y-yeah but grinding isn't much better either!"

Simply epic

And there still a lot more problems, the worst one being this >>135127773


Literally fuck off, themepark shitter.

>>135128280
Dumb gooks making class tiers when they're stuck on what, lvl 6 or 7? Can't wait for them to get stuck on a level with flying creatures and realize that their elementalist DPS is 99% useless.

>>135128056
To continue where I left off:

And besides, even if you have a super awesome open world grinding game, you're still going to gravitate towards "the best" spots each time you play through. How is that any different than the linear path you're forced on when you level up through questing?

>>135128403
Dota and its clones get really repetitive at higher levels of play. Only a handful of heroes are seen as being competitive and you see the same 15-20 heroes picked all the time, with a "high tier" hero picked once out of every 20-30 games and a lower than high tier hero picked every 50+ games, usually followed by rage because someone picked a suboptimal hero.

>>135128550
I didn't defend theme park, I thrashed grinding. There's a difference.

>>135128648
>And grinding is far worse since you don't fight different monsters, don't fight bosses, don't have quest text to read (assuming you read it in the first place) and you don't see a change in scenery.

In RO you had all that, you could grind in a billion different maps and could hunt bosses if you wanted. Your points are not intrinsic to grinding.

>>135129282
>How is that any different than the linear path you're forced on when you level up through questing?

Because these spots will depend on your build.

Lineage quest path = same strict path regardless of build.

Quest offer MUCH less variety than grind, end of story.

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>themepark apologists right now

>all those themepark fags
Goddamn man, its because of you fucks the MMO industry has been so bad lately. Its always the same fucking shit, please, let us have ONE game, thats all I ask.
I guess I'm going to sleep, good night /tosg/, I hope we get some news by tomorrow.

>casuals have never even done something as simple as leveled a healer up by attacking the undead with their heals because the game world is diverse
>instead they just solo questgrind the same mobs as everyone else and suffer with melee attacks

>never played a mage and traveled to an elemental plain where their chosen element is super powerful in a game where mages arent able to solo physical mobs efficiently

>never leveled a melee character in an area where lots of weak mobs can be slaughtered very quickly, playing to the strength of their rapid and cheap attacks and covering the weakness of their lack of hitpoint recovery

So many possibilities when you arent making a lifeless solo questgrind world

new word to filter: themepark

If you honestly think grinding is more repetitive than questing, you never played a grinding game.

Quests:
- Can't party up with friends if they are on different path.
- Forces you to play a certain way.
- Linear, repetitive.
- Makes rerolling even more boring.
- Doesn't reward exploration, as you're led by quest marker NPCs.
- Throwaway content, once completed, no reason to revisit the map.

Grind:
- Can play freely with friends.
- Different spots for different builds.
- Have to use your brain or lurk moar to find the best spots, instead of being led like a 2 year old.
- Quest spot crowded? Find a different spot.
- No back & forth game with npc.
- Rewards exploration.

Is the game dead? it shows me a "Cannot connect to server" message

>>135113997
LOL, you think you'll be one shotting anyone with Musketeer? Good luck with stone skin, if anyone's going to be getting one shot it's you since you're playing a fucking archer in PvP

Quests:
- Can't party up with friends if they are on different path.
- Forces you to play a certain way.
- Linear, repetitive.
- Makes rerolling even more boring.
- Doesn't reward exploration, as you're led by quest marker NPCs.
- Throwaway content, once completed, no reason to revisit the map.
- Favors griefing, kill steal over quest objectives.

Grind:
- Can play freely with friends.
- Different spots for different builds.
- Have to use your brain or lurk moar to find the best spots, instead of being led like a 2 year old.
- Grind spot crowded? Find a different spot.
- No back & forth game with npc.
- Rewards exploration.

Quest:
- Why is it so Linear? Ugghhhh!

Grind:
- It's too grindy! Jeez, another GRIND GAME!

>>135130264
>stoneskin
don't forget block senpai

>>135130295
I'm going to copy this and use it in the future. Thank you.

>>135130353
>It's too grindy! Jeez, another GRIND GAME!

Why even play then? Do people who blame the grind like to reach the cap in a week and quit the game because "muh no endgame content"?

These fags can go suck a moba's dick.

>>135130353
The difference is quests are linear, and there hasn't actually been a 'grind game' in over a decade, not in the west anyway, so anyone who says 'another grind game' is instantly revealed as an idiot.

>>135128831
>you don't stay in 1 map forever
You're right, you only stay in the same map in one area for a few days. That's so much better!

>what are world bosses?
Those are the guys that spawn on every map, right? They're also the guys you have to sacrifice your grinding spot for, which means you might lose your grinding spot to another team if you go fight the world boss, royally screwing you over.

>reading quest text
I'd rather spend 5 minutes reading quest text over a 72 hour period than to grind the same spot for 72 hours.

>>135128968
Almost all bosses I've found were boring. The few that I didn't considered as boring were "meh" at the very, very best. It's still a change of pace, which makes those bosses leagues ahead of grinding the same fucking mob for days.

>the combat is fun
Yes, it is. Continuously grinding the same area isn't fun though, no matter how great the combat is.

>never played Diablo
Bitch, I have over 15,000 hours into D2. That game was my life for years. Wake up, go to work, come back home, D2, sleep. For years. I played every possible build for every class. And you know what? I could never stomach doing Meph//Diablo/Baal/Pindle/Council runs for more than a few hours at a time. You know why? Because repeating the same task over and over again is boring. Especially when there's no excitement involved - and don't tell me loot drops count as "excitement" unless it's your first playthrough or you find one of those obnoxiously rare items. Excitement in D2 is running into multiple packs of MSLEBs and finally testing your build against something dangerous - on hardcore.

>quests are finite
Do you know why quests exist in modern MMOs, outside of world building? Because outside of a few autists, nobody likes grinding as it is a mindless, boring, repetitive, unrewarding task. So game devs figured out that mindless, boring, repetitive and slightly rewarding quests were a better option to get players to the level cap - and I agree with them.

>>135130486
>You're right, you only stay in the same map in one area for a few days. That's so much better!

A few days is nothing on a MMO that you play years, you dumb ADHD game hopper.

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>this thread

>>135128648
You're advocating for more mind-numbing factory work (which is what quests are) and promoting zero variety mindless line following, while trying to accuse people who want more variety of doing what you're doing. Your complaints about open world killing are describing instance grinding (the part about feet rooted in one spot only applies to instances) and quest grinding , and you even admit quests are boring.

Why are you arguing against quests while pretending to argue for them? Did you decide to troll by copy-pasting a pro-open world killing anti-dungeon anti-quest post and changing a few words?

>>135120043
>>135120043
>>135120043

>>135130658
DONT YOU LIKE IT ANON?
ITS TO COMPENSATE FOR THE

MARCH
14TH
MEME

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>>135130353
>- Why is it so Linear? Ugghhhh!
These are the people who played good games in the past and are searching for a new home.

>- It's too grindy! Jeez, another GRIND GAME!
These are the people with an attention span of 10 minutes and will eventually leave the game for the new shiny MMO next month.


Learn the difference, it can save your life.

>>135130462
>Do people who blame the grind like to reach the cap in a week and quit the game because "muh no endgame content"?

Yes. This is what they do with every single game.

Times like this i wish there was some sort of database that tracked people online, just so we know ignore every single person whos first mmo was WoW or one of its clones. They dont even know how real mmos work.

>>135117383
it's a pve tier list, those are tier 1 and tier 2

>>135130821
>These are the people who played good games in the past and are searching for a new home.
You sure do like baiting the "B-BUT RO DIDNT HAVE QUESTS" fags huh.

>>135130906
Elaborate.

>>135130785
But i do, Anon. I'm following the quest vs. grind discussion and already forwarded plenty of the complaints to our Dev team.

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>>135130658
>>135130786
I haven't even read the thread, I'm just here waiting.

>>135130462
Yes, they're the same people who used to constantly demand fresh WoW servers. They'd fill the forum with tears demanding a fresh start, and every time, they'd race to the level cap, go back to their home servers, and leave the new server to die and be merged into others.

I thought people in /tosg/ and 4chan in general had some good sense, but color me surprised. Themepark enablers are real.

I wish they'd give us, you know, at least the OPTION to level up by grinding. Dailies, instanced content, quest hubbing. I'd be okay with all of that content IF grinding was an option as well.

Consider the following:

>Do quests, dailies, instances and quickly gather EXP cards, but pretty much 0 silver wield

or

>Make every single map in the game a good grind spot. You spend maybe 3 or 4 times more time to progress than someone who abused the casualized content, but with more Silver wield than they could dream of

After that, they'd just have to give a bigger death for being killed and improve monster variety and the game's issues would all be fixed. By variety I don't mean a major breakthrough in enemy AI, but make them more than just dumb HP sponges that do nothing but follow blindly and attempt to hurt you.

You know, imobile enemies with ranged attacks, enemies that attack in groups, enemies that loot from the floor, enemies that have high block but aren't strong versus magic. You know, that sort of thing.

I'm actually proud of this general now. I thought you were all questfags.

Questing and grinding are for literal autists. Intelligent players want to level up through cooking and fishing minigames.

>>135131394
>I'm actually proud of this general now. I thought you were all questfags.

Depends when you lurk, usually there is a good bunch of quest apologists, I was surprised.

Also ToS is failing in Korea, because boring content and no end game. It wouldn't have happened if the game was grind based.

The anti-grind whiners left the game anyway, even after IMC caved to their demands.

Their low attention span made them jump to the next new MMO release, they do this every month. They are a parasite spreading from host to host, only leaving it when it's content has been sucked dry and has nothing left to offer...

>>135129189
>fighting mobs with friends is what's fun
No, it's not. Doing a social activity with your friends is fun. You could be playing a good game with your friends and be having significantly more fun than you would be grinding the same boring, easy shit.

>the social interaction and combat makes it fun
No shit. They make a dreadfully boring experience such as grinding seem fun, that's how great playing with friends is. You (and apparently the rest of the thread) lack the mental capacity to separate the two.
Grinding = boring shit
Playing with friends = fun
Grinding while playing with friends = fun because you're playing with friends

>>135129264
And you won't have fun grinding with a party of strangers. At least, I never did. It just boils down to whether or not the group is efficient and effective.

>if it was just grinding
So you're telling me that you'd rather spend 72 hours of playtime in demon prison district 2 with 4 strangers killing the 4 different mob types that spawn there than spending 72 hours going through 30 different zones and fighting 100+ different mobs, a dozen of bosses and dozens of quests that require you to interact with the world? If that's the case, there's something wrong with you. Let's try a different approach: would you rather type out a 200 page essay about whatever subject you like or would you rather type the letter D one at a time for 200 pages' worth? A bit extreme and more pronounced than than what grinding vs questing really is, but it should illustrate the point.

>rest of the post is...
And grinding is still worse than bland, boring questing.

>>135127773
How is that any different than having one character who's higher level than another having to grind through lower level areas until the lower level player catches up?

>>135129326
This isn't about RO though. And even if it was, at best they'd be equally shitty.

>>135131394
No, we're just playing dumb to keep faggots like you away from the actual grind spots

New KR oopdat?

>>135131703
>Grinding = boring shit
>Playing with friends = fun
>Grinding while playing with friends = fun because you're playing with friends

Guy you quoted here. I agree with this, but let me add a couple more:

Questing = boring shit.
Questing with friends = boring shit (when it's possible at all).

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>>135131394
My negro

>>135131703
>How is that any different than having one character who's higher level than another having to grind through lower level areas until the lower level player catches up?

Haha holy shit you never played a grind based MMO you fucking autist

>>135131394
I know plenty of us are grindfags but I just fucking hate seeing this same argument every time that I don't care anymore. If you want to complain about shit go and do it in the forum. I doubt running your mouth off here would do the game any good.

>>135131846

>Implying we have friends

>>135131703
>How is that any different than having one character who's higher level than another having to grind through lower level areas until the lower level player catches up?

Because if you roll a different build, you grind a different way, on different mobs and maps.

Quests don't allow this. It's always the same railroad. Didn't you get it yet? It's not rocket science.

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>>135131921
this

I can't take it anymore

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>>135131921
>I doubt running your mouth off here would do the game any good.
There is no way to save the game right now, anyway.
The game is doomed to be an instance/quest based mess until it dies because of that very same reason.

All is left is for people to fight over it.

I'm not saying I'm one of them doing it, but I can understand their anger perfectly.

>>135130486
>Bitch, I have over 15,000 hours into D2.
You just wrote two essays saying how much you hate Diablo and can't stand playing it, and now you come up with this bullshit. 0/10

>Do you know why quests exist in modern MMOs
Because WoW had quests, you moron. Everyone hates them and quits games because of them when they don't have a Blizzard-size content team working on them.

CUTEPOSTERS PLEASE SAVE US

im going to have fun playing this game when it comes out soon and nobody can stop me

>>135127941
>Good mob density and good combat system blow the fuck out of any of your quest hub baby game

sadly very few games get these two things right. ToS is far from having a great combat system or the required mob density.

Also don't forget rewards. Diablo works because it throws loot at you to equip, reroll and use as crafting mats.

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>>135132279
grinding is cute!
CUTE!

quests are SHIT!
SHIIIIIIIIIIIIT!

>>135132170
>Everyone hates them and quits games because of them

If you google "why Wildstar failed", a lot of players who quit mention the massive amount of quests as the reason. I find this quite ironic.

Are players retarded or do they really not know what they want?

>>135128550
>Game has turned into themepark
>grinding has now been changed to 600% exp bouns in dungeons

lol

>>135132436
This is because the people who plays MMOs nowadays don't know much else besides WoW.

They think quests means not grinding, but all they get is quest grinding, which ends up being a thousand times worse than vanilla grinding.

>>135132578
>instance grinding
Literally WORSE and more repetitive than quest grinding. Good job.

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>>135132414
Grinding isn't cute! Grinding is lewd! LEWD!

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>>135132279
This autism makes me feel depressed, can't feel cute anymore

>>135129659
>>135129673
>implying I'm not bashing theme parks almost as much as grinding
>implying I haven't said multiple times that questing is shit

>>135130170
You're right. I've never played a game where the goal was grinding. Because I find it boring. I've grinded in other games and found it boring. Why would I waste my time playing a game where the sole design seems to be related to something I find boring.

But let's take a step back: let's say that, in your perfect grinding game, grinding lets you see the world and lets you fight different types of monsters (based on your build, gear and class) and you can fight bosses every now and then for loot and big chunks of xp. Well congratulations! you've just created gameplay that ends up being more or less the same as questing: boring, repetitive shit.

>>135130295
>grind
- Can't party up with friends if they are too high or low level
- Forces you to grind in certain areas based on your level, gear, classes and party
- Linear, repetitive
- Makes rerolling even more boring
- Doesn't reward exploration, as you're led by whichever spot has the most xp/hour
- Favors griefing, kill steal over grinding spots

>quests
- Can play freely with friends once they catch up
- Different quest chains in different areas
- Have to find where the quest NPCs are hidden instead of staying in spot and hitting the same button like a 2 year old
- Questing spot crowded? Go to a different channel
- Instant travel back to NPC
- Rewards exploration

>>135130592
You're absolutely right, doing boring shit for a few days is perfectly acceptable since you'll be playing the game for years.

>>135130710
>you're advocating for more mind-numbing factory work

No I'm not. Quests are shit. I haven't played a MMO with good, fun to do and interesting quests, nor have I heard of one. It's all shit. Reread what I initially posted >>135127070
I bash questing and grinding from the start.

>>135130710
>You're advocating for more mind-numbing factory work (which is what quests are) and promoting zero variety mindless line following

Grinding is pretty mindless. There is no variety. You find the best kill to exp ratio and stick with that.

Go abck and looke at RO. Bio-labs was how it was done when it was put in and than once anubius was put in sphinx everyone where there.

Grinding is alll about being efficeint. Which means grinding the same mob for countless levels.

>>135132797
>quests are shit
>by the way I'm going to list the reasons why quests are good

You are a fucking retard.

>But let's take a step back: let's say that, in your perfect grinding game, grinding lets you see the world and lets you fight different types of monsters (based on your build, gear and class) and you can fight bosses every now and then for loot and big chunks of xp.
Thanks? That's what we all want.

>Well congratulations! you've just created gameplay that ends up being more or less the same as questing: boring, repetitive shit.

What the fuck

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>>135132797
Wall of text is bad! BAD!

>>135132797
>>quests
>- Can play freely with friends once they catch up

I am actually laughing out loud right now.

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Toki wo tomare!

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>>135132279

>>135132797
And they say anti-themepark fags are the autist ones

>>135131703
>30 different zones and fighting 100+ different mobs
Are you just trying to post the most ridiculous nonsense possible to be funny? In this game zones change at exactly the same speed regardless of what you're doing because they're all locked to narrow level ranges. Even for a brand new character, 30 is a complete nonsense number.

The rest of your post is "because I say so, and if you prove me wrong, it doesn't count because I say so."

>>135132110
The game is bad at it's core. Even if they didn't put in the quest and instance it still doesn't fix the combat problems or lack of side things to do besides quest/grind only.

>>135132797
>Can't party up with friends if they are too high or low level
This, but it's a good thing because it makes you work for your level instead of leeching from high level parties
>Makes rerolling even more boring
No, quests do that
>Favors griefing, kill steal over grinding spots
Fuck KS, I don't miss it
>Can play freely with friends once they catch up
Klaipeda side is ok to quest whenever you want, Orsha side has tons of quests pre-requisites that won't let you play with your friends, even if you're in the same quest
>Have to find where the quest NPCs are hidden instead of staying in spot and hitting the same button like a 2 year old
Not at all, the flags leads you, only true retarded people have troubles with quests
>Rewards exploration
No, actually with the new "complete x map and kill x number of games" encourages grinding and exploration, questing has nothing to do with it
>Instant travel back to NPC
This is cool, you can save some quick warps

>>135133165
no

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>>135133304
Backmasking!
Let's return to the good times in iCBT2.

>>135132706
and yet even in ICB2 we still grinded those instances because quests ran out and map grinding was shit.

When your entire content is leveling 300+ levels there's always going to be a better way to grind and everyone will stick to it.

>>135133270
>complete x map and kill x number of games
Ops, I mean the "kill x number of monsters and open field minigames"

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>>135132797
>But let's take a step back: let's say that, in your perfect grinding game, grinding lets you see the world and lets you fight different types of monsters (based on your build, gear and class) and you can fight bosses every now and then for loot and big chunks of xp.

That actually sounds like the perfect game.

Am I getting meme'd on?

iobt soon?

>>135133509
when u do thing

>>135133509
yeah

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>>135133464
>iCBT2
>good times

>>135133464

Then you'll regret backmasking because the superior short green hair didn't exist back there.

>>135132797
>No I'm not. Quests are shit. I haven't played a MMO with good, fun to do and interesting quests, nor have I heard of one. It's all shit. Reread what I initially posted >>135127070
>I bash questing and grinding from the start.
Your original post is anti-mob grinding and all you've done this whole time is promote quest grinding over mob grinding. Now you got your shit pushed in and you're pretending to agree with everyone you've been arguing against.

Fuck off and kill yourself. You are the reason every MMO is a mindless quest grind single player game and you don't even like the garbage you've been pushing.