/gsg/ - Grand Strategy General

Reminder to report and ignore shitposting.

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Gib some rare Mosley's pls

EUIV and CKII are reddit games

Reminder Friedrich Nietzsche was a mistake
t. willy
t. jamal heisenberg

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>>127228984
KAY

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Nth for the flags of the Holy Roman Empire

>>127229064
>tfw you were Times' MOTY while Mosley wasnt

>>127228716
Aside from the Channel width, that is one fucking horrible proportioned Great Britain.

How hard is it to trace a fucking map for fuck sake?

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Well /gsg/, will it be shit?

>>127229140
He was /gsg/'s man of the memes.

>>127229103
Why is there a pizza over a table cloth in Mark's flag

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>>127229064
>>127229240
>>127229140
Truly the king of memes

>>127229064
Mosley wore turtlenecks BEFORE it was cool. in your FACE Steve Jobs.

>>127228984
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9yGi5fOt6Q

>>127228880
But anon, the portraits are the only good thing about it

>>127229230
I don't understand why they flash blue. I'm trying to think, did Diablo 2 flash the screen if you tried to cast a spell without mana or something? I'm pretty sure these are mana-based memes but I don't get them.

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>>127229375
What about the error dog?

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All this talk of HoI and the English Channel is making me want to play Silent Hunter 5 again.

Takes forever to get all the mods sorted though :(

>>127229469
Day/night cycle lad, learn you memes.

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For the twitter anon:

colonial_nation = yes or NOT = { colonial_nation = yes } give the same, wrong localization - they never tell you if the supposed HAS_NO_COLONIES;is not a colonial nation.


Crisis with one side seem to be taking too long to resolve. Could it be a mod error, could it be some factor I didn't see, but it's worth a try.

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>still no Rule the Waves torrent

>>127229262
I can't unsee it now, fug

That's the actual standard of Mark though so it's more due to Germanic "ingenuity"

>>127229469
It's the day/night cycle

>>127229471
>>127229471
>>127229471

Just update it anon

>>127229643
Hey HPM, why is there no slavery in Tibet when the practice was only dismantled after the Chinese annexed it in the 1950's?

>>127229917
t. Mao

>>127229917
The Communist Party of China is out in full force tonight

I'm thinkingabout doing an EUIII campaign as Athens.
But modded,because fuck this,I'm going to be catholich at least until the ottomans are gone.

>>127229982
>>127230060
>dalai lama did nothing wrong
heh lads

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Cant find my old gifs of the clusterfuck swarm of animated moving planes that is displayed when you provide air support in HoI4.

>>127229917
t. office of online affairs of the PRC

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Made a new flag for "Hierosolyma Novum", a independent postcolonial Catholic/Coptic/Orthodox nation. The previous version looked like someone had puked on a cross, this is slightly less so I imagine.

I tried making just a jerusalem cross but that was a bitch especially since I had no crutches cross template

>>127229917
Because they were serfs and they already have serfs in game.

http://www.case.edu/affil/tibet/booksAndPapers/mmdebate-mcg1.pdf

>>127230206
Where is this country located?

That flag is shit btw

brown and yellow aren't good together

March of the eagles really feels like a mash up of all the current pdox games.

The eight great powers dynamic from vic2, flanks/leaders work like ck2 and similar map tok ck2, power dynamic of strong continental power (france/germany) vs the Brits and the short time span makes it feel a bit like hoi3 and everything else feels a bit like eu4

>>127230186
Would you consider the BF110 a a fighter?

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Finished kicking franco-russian ass when suddenly GOMMIES. Fuck them at least it didn't happen during the war.

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>>127230294
It's located anywhere in the new world. It's so if you're playing with RNW there's nations to form if colonies gain independence, and also for independent colonies to form a nation if the "region country" has been formed already (USA, Mexico, Brazil etc.)

How about the same with the brown poop out?

>>127230404
A heavy fighter, so yes.

>>127230430
That flag looks dope my nigga

Hol' up is this for EUIV? get fucked lad

>>127230404
Uh yes? It was a heavy fighter. Shit blew plans from the sky like no one's
Business.

>>127228942
ayy, i like soccer, thats all

>>127230565
Aye, I'm a homosexual EU4 modder. I'm afraid it's terminal.

>>127229230
feet?

>>127230449
>>127230569
Why using a heavy fighter when you can build 2 light fighters that are more maneuverable and faster?

>>127230870
Firepower my friend.

>>127230807
Big country=Big soldier model
t.the guy who shopeed the legs there.

>>127230870
Because longer range and bigger armament i guess

>>127230207
What are Nangzan (5% of the population), if not slaves?

>>127230870
>>127230928
>>127230954
Indeed, the BF110 mounted 20mm cannons when the early BF109s were lucky to mount 50cals

>>127230870
Most heavy fighters were designed back when engine tech was bad enough that a twin-engined fighter was expected to be faster and possibly more maneuverable (thanks to speed and power) than a single-engine fighter.

>>127230186
These screenshots look like those cheap ass browser game ads you see on top of sites.

>>127230106
pls respond

>>127231276
Please buy HOI4

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>>127230207
HPM, can you make proper Bear Flag Revolt (with all Alta California territory) and Mexican Revolution? Also, can you rename monarchy FRCA to Kingdom of Guatemala?

>>127230870
>Why using a heavy fighter when you can build 2 light fighters

Range, endurance, carry weight, firepower, ability to mount radar when available.

Different roles.

>>127230106
>>127231279
I don't see any question. Could you reformulate please?

Oops. Tried to start a China game as Xing, but clicked back the to Golden Bull bookmark before i started it. Ended up being the only person fighting the Red Turban Rebellion, months early, got rekt.

Why does this happen with the bookmarks? does clicking them apply triggers and wars to the nations involved?

>>127231516
Tell wiz about it, he'll probably have the game restart every time you click on a new bookmark in order to fix it.

>>127231446
Should I modd so that Athens starts with Morea and Achea so that I can make a comfy greek kingdom or should I just start with athens and die like a bitch to ottotards?
Also,can I stay catholic?
I would rather follow the pope than get killed,because europe hates me.

>>127230971
Serfs.
http://savetibet.ru/img/2010/tibet-book-eng.pdf
pp135, last paragraph

>>127231346
Yes, it's on the plans anon. I don't know when I will do it but I will do it.

>Kingdom of Guatemala?
Why?

>>127229584
Never got the appeal of the series. Then again I work on a submarine

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Is this a glitch?

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Any name ideas for the Romanian-Hungarian/Polish-Hungarian govs?

>>127231696
>I work on a submarine
wat
tell me more

>>127231580
how long until every autosave forces the game to restart every year with no option to turn it off?

>>127231696
How much sex would you say you have on a typical patrol?

>>127231763
sign on for navy service
assigned to sub

there now he doesn't have to

HPM is wiz.

>>127231705
doesn't VisegradMod have a fully functional Romania-Hungary?
Anyway:
Absolute monarchy:
The Romano-Magyar empire
Republic:
The Dual Republic of Romania-Hungary
Gommie:
Romano-Magyar People's Republic
Fascist:
Nyilas-Fier Union

>>127231694
>n reality, the so-called “slaves” were domestic servants (nangsen) and managers of estates. Those who could not pay back their creditors fell into this category. They were supposed to look after the households of the feudal lords. The servant status was inherited. They were often “favourites” of the owners and had a higher actual status than that of the peasants.

>The servant status was inherited.
How is this not slavery? Do you always insist of gobbling up liberal propaganda from such unbiased sources as SAVETIBET.RU

>>127231669
Shouldn't you be already catholic?

For the rest I would say try first without moddding and if it appers to be impossible mod.

>>127232117
it has, but the mod on its own isnt really functional>>127219290

>>127231703
Looks like you somehow got diplomatic relations with all those countries, which reveals the capital.

>>127232145
desu serfs are slaves and its a stupid distinction to make. The word literally means slave.

>>127232184
I tried it already,I just somehow became Orthodox,lost my allies and the Ottofags annexed me.
I'm just asking if /gsg/ is interested in some good old deus vult campaign and do you find it acceptable if I make it a tiny bit easier.
I'm also goint to play with In Nomie.
>>127232297
What do you think about the name though?

>>127232117
>Romano-Magyar

That sounds wrong to me tho

>>127232405
I think that too, but the distinction is made in the mod anyway so whatever.

>>127232421
they are pretty good, only what >>127232478 siad
român-magyar maybe?

>>127232484
Obviously you shouldn't play mememods anon.

>>127232598
that is good.
The fascist name is "Arrow-Iron Union" translated into english.
It's a mix of the "Nyilaskeresztes Párt"(arrowcross party) and the Iron guard.

Should India be changed at all in the Nopoopan mod? I can't think of anything huge the napoleonic wars did to that area.

>>127232145
Serfdom status is also inherited.
>Moreover, the children born to a serf inherited at birth the condition of serfdom. By taking on the duties of serfdom, serfs bound not only themselves but all of their future progeny.

>Do you always insist of gobbling up liberal propaganda from such unbiased sources as SAVETIBET.RU

Seeing as the main proponent of the slave theory is Chinese propaganda, and knowing a few chinese myself and how their propaganda machine works, and seeing as academical sources (with one I posted before) identify the bondage system in Tibet as serfdom, it's hard to not classify it as serfdom. Evidence presented in this debate was only by my side, so you are only debating with your word.

Moreover, the distinction is almost irrelevant in the game.

>>127232405
Serfs aren't slaves though. There are differences.

Slaves can move with their owners. Serfs are bound to the manor. Serfs are technically not the property of anyone too.
Serfs had a little liberty and usually poor peasants came to the lord for serfdom in exchange for protection.

>>127232785
Yes, India should be French.

>>127232814
The word serf literally means slave. The fact that one type of slavery is slightly different from another type of slavery doesn't make either of them not slavery.

>>127232994
>It's a different kind of slavery
No,it's not fucking slavery.
They are just bounded to the land and their social status because of the lack of money.
1 thenth of their work went to the feudal lord
and another 1 tenth to the church
The they could kept the rest.

>>127232994
The word serf comes from the latin word for slave, doesn't mean they are slaves. Same way the chinese name for China literally means the middle kingdom, doesn't mean they are it.
Words original meanings, especially coming from latin, are corrupt or change with time.

A good example is faggot.
>earlier and dialect, contemptuous word for a woman or child, probably from fagot


Now, I'm not here to discuss semantics over words with you.
They are different things and you can read more here
http://www.vlib.us/medieval/lectures/serfdom.html

In any case, this isn't the topic of what you porposed. I already explained why we have serfs instead of slaves in Tibet and gave you two sources about it.

>>127232814
>>Seeing as the main proponent of the slave theory is Chinese propaganda, and knowing a few chinese myself and how their propaganda machine works,
>literally 'muh scary chinese bogeyma, clearly anyone who disagrees with me is just brainwashed :^))))))'
Okay, pal.
Are Charles Bell and Israel Epstein also somehow part of this leviathan propaganda machine?

>Evidence presented in this debate was only by my side, so you are only debating with your word.
There is academic sources which describe it as slavery and document the existence of slavery in Tibet, but they are not available online, so I didn't bother to post them as you would just ignore them.

>Moreover, the distinction is almost irrelevant in the game.
Then why even make it?

> and usually poor peasants came to the lord for serfdom in exchange for protection.
Again, this is not the case in Tibet. The nangsan class originated from people literally being too poor to raise their children and having to sell them to the aristocracy. The distinction between serf and slave is fucking meaningless.

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>>127232994
a big difference between slaves and serfs in the game and in the hpm mod is that the game models chattel slavery, property that can be bought and sold on the market. serfs are not property, they are not owned in that sense seeing as serfs are tied to the land. in serfdom, there were obligations between the landowner and the serf such as protection. though these obligations favored the land owner 99% of the time, they nonetheless existed. chattel slavery had no such distinctions, especially in the new world slave societies.
Have a Daddario for your time.

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>>127233524
Very good shitpost my friend

>>127233396
Slaves in Rome could own property, earn wages, and even own their own slaves. Are you going to say they weren't slaves?

>>127233524
desu you are a faggot. The only difference between slaves and serfs is that one is a meme made by nations to pretend they had ended slavery when they had changed a minor rule about it.

>>127233524
>""""""""""""""""""""""historical"""""""""""""""""""""" project mod
>muh serfdom wasn't slavery because enlightened europeans lol
tard

Jesus are people this stupid, I learnt what serfs are in year 7 history class...
>>127233681
Nice post friendo

>>127233681
Man I'm geniuenly starting to think Mosley was a pretty handsome man.

>>127232758
pretty good.
for the polish-hungarian ill use the vanilla names just replace lithuania with hungary

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>>127233806
He was

>>127233649
> the game models chattel slavery, property that can be bought and sold on the market
No? Where is there a slaves good?

>>127233796
Yes, your history lesson aimed at 12 year olds would surely not have simplified matters, nor had any bias, and contained in-depth analysis of class structures of pre-capitalist Europe.
Fucking moron.

Are jet planes and rockets (V1 and V2 stuff) somewhat useful in HoI3? I never see them mentioned.

Do jet planes have more range (INTs)? Suppose that would be useful against USSR.
V1 and V2, while I saw a lot of people saying they aren't worth it (too much IC to research/build rocket test facility/comes too late), how much useless are they, on a scale of AC (10) to AA brigade (0)?

I also heard submarines are shit but I tech rushed the hull/visibility tech (1940 on early 1939) and made a killing by basing them on Portugal and Brazil (influenced them from the start to get them in Axis) and fucking UK convoys up.

does dh even have dlc and if so do i need it

>>127233756
Victoria II models american slavery.
Roman(and carthagian) slavery are a completely different deal.
And serfs are still not slaves.
Slaves can be bought of sold.
So the roman slaves were still slaves,just with extreme liberties compared to the Victorian era slaves.
>>127233930
in Europa Universalis

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Sure is leftist in here all of the sudden.

Always changing the definitions to suit their needs. :^)

>>127233916
>5head
>eyes too close to each other
>pedo moustache

2/10 would not bang

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>>127231694
>Why?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captaincy_General_of_Guatemala

Also, can you change in \history\countries\UKR - Ukraine.txt government to Democracy, national value to Liberty and remove Ugrian from accepted? Same for Ruthenia.

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>>127234151

>>127234024
>Do jet planes have more range (INTs)? Suppose that would be useful against USSR.

Just make MR.

>V1 and V2, while I saw a lot of people saying they aren't worth it (too much IC to research/build rocket test facility/comes too late), how much useless are they, on a scale of AC (10) to AA brigade (0)?
AA brigades are highly useful units if you build a few AA/AA/AA/AA, bombers get wrecked hard.

V1/V2s, on the other hand, are worse than useless.

>I also heard submarines are shit but I tech rushed the hull/visibility tech (1940 on early 1939) and made a killing by basing them on Portugal and Brazil (influenced them from the start to get them in Axis) and fucking UK convoys up.
Subs are more for MP since its always simpler to just invade the UK AI. They are effective at convoy killing with low visibility though.

>>127234059
>serfs are not slaves, because they cannot be sold
>they are tied to the land worked, not the owner
Surely this means that they are part of the land parcel if it is sold, and hence they can be sold as a component of the sale of land? Slavery and serfdom are arbitrary definitions.

>>127233806
>>127233646
Well, if you just passive aggressive drop names and you don't post sources, I will not do anything about it.

>Then why even make it?
Because "almost irrelevant" is not the same thing as irrelevant. Slave owners can move and take some of their slaves with them in game, no pops demote for slaves while they can for serfs and they have different issues.

> and having to sell them to the aristocracy.
Serfs "sold" themselves too. Doesn't make that slavery.

>The distinction between serf and slave is fucking meaningless.
Read below.

>>127233756
I'm aware that some marxist schools of thought subscribe to the whole serfdom = slavery thing, ignoring the details about the whole stuff.

But I don't it.

>>127234046
no

>>127234316
>127234316
HPM pls stop shitposting

>>127234308
In a feudal soceity,selling of land is not possible/looked down upon

>>127234264
>MR
Yeah...about that...I always forget to research/build those. My air force are always a mess. Either too many INTs and too few TACs and CASs, or the inverse.

is 3.33 the latest version of hpp?

>>127234059
>Slaves can be bought of sold.
Serfs are bought or sold with the property they are attached to. It's just a 2-for-1 bundle deal. This is like saying that houses aren't property because they can't be sold on their own, you have to to buy land along with it.

>>127234316
Source is my heart HPM, fuck you I don't have to give sources for about finding a man handsome

>>127234368
t. unHPM

>>127234449
i am here, its the same guy that shitposts about me

>>127234493
No lad that's someone else I like you unHPM desu

>>127233985
But it's not wrong is it, faggot?

"Spain had colonies in the Americas" is still as valid as "Spain had colonized the new world and created states like New Granada, New Spain, Hispaniola, etc"

>>127234493
I know, just memeing. Take a chill pill, man.

>>127234446
YOU DON'T FUCKING SELL LAND IN A FEUDAL SOCEITY.
YOU FUCKING RETARD!
SELLING LAND WAS PROHIBITED

>>127234230
Ukraine usually gets released as a democracy in dismantlement, but their NV is far from "Liberty".

>>127234525>>127234574

<3<3

>>127234576
Can't tell if serious.

>>127234576
Yeah you must be right because you have over 300 hours in crusader kings. Cunt. And you don't need to type in caps lock, that's rude.

>>127234657
i'm fucking serious.
There were laws about it.
This is why the law system had to be reformed.
To clean up the feudal mess.
>>127234696
t.never opened a history book

>>127234316
>passive aggressive drop names
Fucking lol, nice way to avoided confronting that these people aren't part of your scary Chinese bogeyman that you attribute all criticism with.

Charles Bell, Tibet Past and Present, describes the existance of slavery in Tibet in 1904.

>Serfs "sold" themselves too. Doesn't make that slavery.
>its not slavery because I say so

>I'm aware that some marxist schools of thought subscribe to the whole serfdom = slavery thing, ignoring the details about the whole stuff.
>MUH SCARY MARXIST BOGEYMAN AHHH

Holy fuck I've lost all respect for you man, you just present your massive biases and arbitrary fictions of history as the truth and shut down when criticised.

>>127234402
That's completely untrue.

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I read more into India

Gwalior will still be a puppet but will have its cores

Hyderabad will be independent, Mysore as well and Mysore will also have its cores

Maratha might still be relevant, I dunno about that though

>>127234614
Far from Autocracy either. And it's also definitely not Order or Productivity. So it's either Liberty or Equality.

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>>127234824
Fixed version

>>127234794
>not true
It was true for some countries
Like in the Kingdom of Hungary,the land selling law was abolished in the 1840s

>>127234874
>Afghans

>>127234771
You must be taking some small facet or instance of medieval laws wildly out of context. Land was often and widely sold throughout the CK2/EU/V2 era.

>>127234614
HPM. do you think japan, when it takes the line of advantage decision, their tech school should change to 'sea power and the merchant marine'? I experimented with it in the latest version of your mod and it seems to give japan the push needed for it to build a battle fleet. what do you think? or perhaps a whole new one just for japan, similar to the Czech school, but for a naval-oriented japan?

>>127235102
>lets take an outlier case and apply it to all of Europe throughout multiple centuries
Stupid cunt

>>127234794
>loses an argument
>doesn't have anything to counter it
>HURR DURR YOU'RE A MARXIST YOU MUST'VE BEEN TAUGHT IN A MARXIST SCHOOL TO THINK SLAVES AND SERFS ARE THE SAME THING
>even though he fucking stated certain differences already, just not the ones you wanted to hear
Helllllooooo Brazil!

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Another dank OC may-may

I can see where HPM comes from in that there is a fundamental difference between Tibetan serfdom and New World slavery, in the sense of demoting POP's.

But to be quite honest Serfdom and indentured servitude should come under the general heading of slavery.

>>127235360
>>even though he fucking stated certain differences already
And I explained why these differences are superficial. Pretty ironic of you to make this post, huh?

>>127234653
unHPM, do still want my autistic flagpack for Slavia? I couldn't deliver it yesterday because I was drinking very hard.

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>tfw I want to play a GS I'm bored of old games
>tfw new ones are just shit

>>127235360
Hi!
Regards from Rio!

>>127234794
Anon, I already provided you with a professor lecture about the differences between slavery and serfdom. You choose to ignore it, not give any sources and instead insist in name dropping and now strawman me.

If your school of thought think serfdom is the same thing as slavery and that I'm biased because I don't agree with it, then I can't do anything about it. If you can't disagree with someone with using fallacies or being passive aggressive, then discussing the issue with you is not worth it for me - you are not contributing, you just want to force your view point.

We are dealing with a controversy here, the "if Tibet had slaves or not". I had to dig up some sources myself and read them. We have some impartial sources like the first one I provided, Melvyn Goldstein, we have partial ones like the other one I provided and we have Israel Epstein, the name dropping of a " a naturalized Chinese journalist and author. [...] one of the few foreign-born Chinese citizens of non-Chinese origin to become a member of the Communist Party of China." which is also biased, since the slavery theory justify the chinese narrative.

Sorry anon, but until you provide some academical sources, preferably unbiased as we both agree biased sources in either side are not good, and quote them instead of name dropping, then I'm afraid we will just have to agree to disagree.

Thanks for bringing the issue to my attention though.

But the guy who said Serfdom is a form of slavery is a hundred percent correct, it's a form of bondage and therefore is considered a form of slavery by the UN Supplementary Convention on the Abolition of Slavery.

the Marxist schools shit is weak as fuck considering it's a generally accepted premise..

>>127235526
This tbqh
Tried the Georgian Togo mod once again, ragequited because the UK stopped influencing me at 38 cordial (it just froze for over a decade), I'm pretty sick of Vicky in general, too impatient to play HoI3 right now, Never really got into CK2 and fuck EU4 tbqh

Someone got mad.

>>127235642
>Israel Epstein
>Melvyn Goldstein

Not that guy but damn, those names.

>>127235526
This right now, any recommendations that aren't pure memes

>>127234974
I wouldn't say that with the exception of recent developments, Ukraine has been a far stable country. I compare it to Belarus.
It can't really be liberty though, liberty is more like american and french love of individual liberty and freedom.
What do you think?

>>127235165
Japan is a complicated beast and honestly, I don't know much about Japanese history. I'm not opposed to a special school, maybe one that ignores culture and commerce in favor of naval and army.

What do you think?

>>127235296
Okay.that might have been stupid.

>>127235715
>UN Supplementary Convention on the Abolition of Slavery.
But lad we're not talking about modern times
If we were, South Korea would have nearly 100k slaves as of today.

>if your school of thought think serfdom is the same thing as slavery and that I'm biased because I don't agree with it

It isn't a "School of thought" HPM, it's a generally accepted premise supported by the Supplementary Convention on the Abolition of Slavery and set out in their first article.

http://www.ohchr.org/EN/ProfessionalInterest/Pages/SupplementaryConventionAbolitionOfSlavery.aspx

>>127235364
>>127234985
>>127234824

Fucking kek

>>127235514
that would be nice
and i already have a ton of alternative slavia flags >>127224543

>>127235838
>Implying the definition of slavery has changed

What Tibet had up until 1959 is an institutionalised form of social bondage and thus allowed the practice of slavery, as is recognised from modern definitions..

>>127235642
>a professor lecture
No, you provided a response Goldstein wrote to another historian.

>You choose to ignore it
I literally quoted back part of one of your sources at you and responded to it, this is false.

> not give any sources
I just gave you one, and as I predicted you are ignoring it because it's not available online.

> strawman
lol

> If you can't disagree with someone with using fallacies or being passive aggressive, then discussing the issue with you is not worth it for me - you are not contributing, you just want to force your view point.
Aww, did your fee-fees get hurt? And what the fuck is this 'passive-aggressive' bullshit? Is disagreeing with you now 'passive-aggression'?

> We have some impartial sources like the first one I provided, Melvyn Goldstein

>and we have Israel Epstein, the name dropping of a " a naturalized Chinese journalist and author. [...] one of the few foreign-born Chinese citizens of non-Chinese origin to become a member of the Communist Party of China." which is also biased, since the slavery theory justify the chinese narrative.

If you were paying any attention you would see the source I cited was by an impartial source, a British General. So this is ACTUALLY a complete strawman.

>Sorry anon, but until you provide some academical sources, preferably unbiased as we both agree biased sources in either side are not good, and quote them instead of name dropping, then I'm afraid we will just have to agree to disagree.
I did, but you ignored it. Just like I knew you would.

>>127235725
>He unironically fell for the perfidious Albion meme

Here's my advice since I've done a lot of playthroughs

Spam military tech, go for morale and dig-in cap and then organization. The only non-military tech you need is the research point one

Promote soldiers 24/7, maybe clergymen a little bit in the beginning but you can get 4 brigades with the entire Togo+Soldier Spam

Pick the military focused heir when Llias dies

Then just bait them into attacking you for the first war, after Dahomey annex Oyo (Start the war before 1861 or you'll have problems) then just eat the rest of Nigeria with decisions.

It also helps to get a border with the UK if you want them to sphere you

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denmark eating sweden won, but at the moment theirs no way for denmark to invade sweden and the revolt has been at a stalemate for a while, so taking something right next to it can stage a later invasion of sweden.

it took forever to finally get the funds however due to a certain problem which is gonna be the next post

>all this chink commie propaganda
Dalai Lama did nothing wrong desu lads.

>>127235642
Serfdom is a subset of slavery. You are committing a false dilemma falacy here HPM.

>>127236217
>talking about games on Tibetan slavery market general

>>127236120
Also, go 3 INF 1 HUS or replace an infantry with ART if you can build one without waiting 5 years for canned food

>>127235925
>Supplementary Convention on the Abolition of Slavery, the Slave Trade, and Institutions and Practices Similar to Slavery
>Similar to slavery
Something that's "similar" to slavery is not the same thing as slavery

Peonage is similar to slavery but it's not slavery

Debt bondage isn't slavery and the fact that both weren't covered in the original Slavery Convention of 1926 supports that

>>127235838
They do

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had to defend against this bad boy
temujin became zoroastrian within 2 years of the invasion starting, took the stepes then shit all over the shia empire
they then declared holy war for armenia on me whihc I won since I can afford so many troops so easily, he became manichean so i doubt a holy war will come any time soon.

funny enough for the zoroastrian church which is now landless and powerless

>>127236285
nigga implying im not gonna import to eu4 and enslave tibet baka desu senpai

>HPM getting this defensive whenever someone criticizes even a minor part of his mod.

Pretty embarrassing honestly.

>>127236330
The fundamental difference is the manner someone is forcibly indebted, hence why they should all come under a subheading of slavery along with indentured servants.

>>127236505
HPM is right aboutvserfs and slaves being different.

>>127236113
If you read the professor's link I sent, you'd see it has nothing to do with Goldstein.
The fact you didn't even open it just shows you are really not interested in this.

>I did, but you ignored it.
When I meant "sources" I meant actual, academic sources. Not name dropping. Sorry that wasn't clear.

Anyway, this is already too side tracked.

I already explained to you what I meant by source, so unless you have one instead of name dropping and telling me to prove your point, I have nothing more to say.

>>127236023
filedropper com/slavicunionaustiticflagpack

I know you have most of these flags included in your mod already, but I created two new ones for monarchy and communist goverments. The I've either changed some colors or made some improvements.

I'm sure that you will want the monarchy flag as the standard one over the Perkunas one because it's much more autistic and aesthetic in my opinion.

Anyways, enjoy it lad.

>>127236571
I'm not commenting on whether he's right or not, because ultimately its 90% up to your individual interpretation. The fact that he's acting so butthurt over things is the disgusting part.

>>127234794
>When you blow stupid stuff way out of proportion and make yourself look like a fool

>>127234794
>it's slavery because I say so
We can do this until the end of eternity.

>>127236586
The "professors link" you posted was written by Goldstein you dumbass. The only other link you posted was the one from SAVETIBET.RU

>When I meant "sources" I meant actual, academic sources. Not name dropping. Sorry that wasn't clear.
>>127234794
>Charles Bell, Tibet Past and Present, describes the existance of slavery in Tibet in 1904.

>Anyway, this is already too side tracked.
How the hell is it sidetracked, we are literally talking only about the original topic.

>>127236586
Stop trying to argue with idiots that are obviously getting a rush out of you answering them. It would be better if you spent this time working on your project instead.

>>127236683
This basically sums up /gsg/ as a whole.

>>127236559
>they should
But they aren't

Serfdom, slavery and peonage are different things. That's why we have different words and definitions to them

>Slavery is a legal or economic system in which principles of property law are applied to humans allowing them to be classified as property, to be owned, bought and sold accordingly, and they cannot withdraw unilaterally from the arrangement.

>Serfdom is a legal and economic system. A serf is a worker who has to stay in one area. Serfs were the lowest social class of the feudal society. Serfs were different from slaves. Serfs could have property.

>Peonage
>1 a : the use of laborers bound in servitude because of debt b : a system of convict labor by which convicts are leased to contractors. 2 : the condition of a peon.


See? All different things
The fact a UN convention for shit "similar to slavery" was done doesn't mean they are the same thing, it just proves they are different

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ill shorten the names
are the current ones too memey?
also, is HPM still here? I wanted so ask him about the civil war event
>>127236571
he is right
but not all serfs are equal too
in mediveal croatia, for exaple, you had kmets (serfs who were "enslaved" to work on a part of land) and colons (free peasents that rented the land they worked on.)
>>127236639
thanks anyways

>>127236683
>>127236759
>>127236781
t. HPM defense force

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>>127236586
Screw Tibetan serfdom garbage HPM, Greater Slovenia when?

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in the meantime heres europe
the 8k danish troops versus the 4k norge troops are somehow taking forever to even touch one another
yes poland owns half of finland

>>127236914
Fuck off rob

>>127236810
>Implying I ever suggest they were the exact same thing

>When idiots don't read the premise and don't understand why things should be amalgamated within the game due to superficial differences.

>>127236914
You can call me that.
I will defend HPM when he is right.

>>127236909
>(free peasents that rented the land they worked on.)
those aren't serfs, even by the definition that claims there is a distinction between slavery and serfdom

>>127236914
>tfw some days I get called HPM Defense Force and some days I get called rob

Can't you guys make up your mind?

>>127236979
See >>127235925
You are using the convention for the premise that they are the same thing and that the UN said they are the same thing
Nice backpedalling btw

>>127236934
that's india retard

>>127236113

You do realize that in the time it took you to write all these posts to HPMguy, you would have modded the game already to suit your tastes.

>>127236909
>Hussar faction
The fuck are you on about

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>>127234794
Fuckin saved. This is too good.

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While the Steam sale is still going I thought I should stock up on all the EUIV expansions I've missed, namely:
Art of War, Common Sense, El Dorado, Wealth of Nations, and Res Publica

Any objections? Are any of them detrimental or not worth the money?

>>127236909
what's font is that?

>>127237185
>He doesn't use Tomorrow

It's almost like you enjoy eye strain.

>>127236934
they had to add additional land becouse how smll slovenia is
>>127237162
First it was a bug (party name), but i started liking it so i kept it that way

>all this relentless samefagging to shout down any criticism of the precious """"""historical"""""" project meme
fucking shameless hahaha

>>127237116
>You are using the convention for the premise that they are the same thing and that the UN said they are the same thing
>Nice backpedalling btw

Lol did you miss the part where he stated the differences were superficial was part of the school of thought intentionally or were you just being an autistic cunt.

so why exactly do I have to wait 30+ mins for HPP to load on the first time playing and that's a normal experience as confirmed by the modders lmao???

>>127237252
No you fucking subhuman mongoloid degenerate. NEVER EVER buy Paradox DLC, it's practically a scam.

>>127236979
let it go anon.

HPM is obviously wrong and it was stupid to add serf pops, but now that he's spent hundred or thousands of hours to do so he'll never take them out.

Every mod ends up like this eventually.

>>127237263
I only use it at night

>>127237259
tannenberger fett
http://www.dafont.com/tannenberg-fett.font
about tibet
if they "sold" themselves, they are renter serfs aka colons

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>>127237252
>paying for DLC

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>>127235826
i was thinking the same thing. a navy and army bonus with the navy getting the bigger bonus. a penalty to culture and commerce, and leaving industry neutral or with a small bonus.
For a line of progress japan, cooperative industrialism, in my opinion, will be sufficient

>>127237368
pls buy dlc
pls buy hoi4

>>127237252
Man, how many times will i have to do this shit. but whatever.

Don't buy fucking DLCs, download them all from the archive.

>>127237252
pirate the dlc's don't help jewhan

>>127237404
>colons
LMAO!!!

>>127237368
I'm too good of a goy already, 20€ more or less won't make a difference at this point. I also don't buy the unit or content packs.

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while denmark is failing the invasion of norge, even with 2k funding from papa rome lets look at just how fucked the middle east is due to mongolia

>>127237471
>colons
"Oni su pravno bili podređeni svojemu gospodaru, ali su imali slobodu kretanja. Naziv kolon (colonus) primarno se upotrebljavao u Dalmaciji, gdje je označivao seljaka koji je uzimao patricijsku ili crkv."
>Colons rented crkvs

papal states more like paypal states
because of the indulgences

>>127237252
Cossacks/patch 1.14 means most of the stuff from res publica doesn't even appear in the game anymore lmao - the only good thing is dutch government.

>>127237374
To be honest I agree with the serf pops being in the game as poor farmers can demote to them unlike New world slavery.

But they should fundamentally come under a collective heading along with indentured servants (although these would be such an insignificant pop within the time frame, it wouldn't make sense to put them in).

the assertion that Hurr durr Slavery and Serfdom are not the same because their conditions of bondage are different is retarded, they're both means of social and economic bondage.

>>127237419
Why are essential and important the same color?

>>127235826
>It can't really be liberty though
Well, you gave Liberty to Ireland, and Ukraine is basically an Eastern Europe Ireland.

HPM on suicide watch

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>>127237584

>>127237605
what was removed/made idle?

>>127237374
>trying to shift the issue from "did tibet had slaves" to "noo HPM is too stubborn to remove serfs, serfs and slaves are the same thing"

>>127237630
>lecolorblindmeme

>>127237368
I bought hoi3 and all the major dlc t.bh - show support for the games you like and maybe they'll be more likely to make more of them.

>>127235826
Yeah, most great powers should have a special school to be honest, especially Japan.

>>127237605
such cases

>>127237418
>>127237450
>>127237467
Oh ok.

>>127237584
t. Luther

>>127237584
Come on lad.

>>127237419
But was culture actually not encouraged in post-Meiji Japan?
They reformulated it completely from before, sure, but wouldn't that mean that it actually had to develop?

>>127237650
>Ukraine is basically an Eastern Europe Ireland.

Stop.

>>127237681
>>127237802
>>127237807
i tried

>>127237619
That's like saying US marines and knights are the same because they are both people fighting in wars
Just because you can classify something in a upper category doesn't mean everything in that category is the same thing

>>127237650
>Ukraine is basically an Eastern Europe Ireland.

>>127237584
>lutherans in charge of making puns

t. ibet

>>127237867
Well the marines are like knights, they've been on crusades in the holy land since the gulf war.

>>127237867
But they basically are. Didn't you see the commercial of a US marine slaying a dragon?

>>127237716
In Res Publica the two well made government types were merchant republics and their factions and the dutch Republic - I think estates replaced merchant republic factions.

The other good thing in Res publica was national focus, but now you get national focus with either res publica or common sense.

Trying to run HPM but when I load it it just looks like vanilla

Anybody know what is up

>>127238049
Did you actually put the .mod where it belongs?

>>127238049
You're playing a meme mod

>>127238049
Tibet had slavery, that's what happened.

Anyway, I'm adding a decision as I said >>127227721. Right now the decision to ban slavery for late game liberal regimes in europe only has a UH requirement, should it have a tech requirement?

>>127236934
I don't know anything about irredentist claims on the area, so I don't know.

>>127237419
What do you mean "line of progress"?

>>127237650
They are a little different. Though I think Ireland really is more order than liberty.

>>127237820
Wasn't that internally rather than externally, like the tree was supposed to represent? Wasn't that the birth of Japan as a nation state - the making of culture and cultural myths to bound the people?

>>127237794
see
>>127238013


Res Publica was never an 'essential' DLC in the way art of war/common sense is.

>>127238049
You're a nigger and you should be a slave. Or a serf.

>>127236810
>Implying I have disputed any of this
>Implying repeating yourself is a reasonable refutation

In HPM mod, they should be under a collective heading of bondage in terms of political reforms; the differences between Slavery and serfdom are superficial conditions in which a personals labour is fundamentally tied to another and is inescapable.

hence why it is under "similar to slavery", it isn't contentious to suggest they're similar at all, nor one of the same thing.

>HPM
>H

>>127237650
>Ukraine
>Eastern European Ireland
¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿?????????؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟

>>127238049
Did you launch the game directly or go on the launcher, tick the HPM box THEN launch the game?

>>127238138
>slave. Or a serf.
Comrade, be deceived not by the bourgeoisie jargon, it was slavery.

>>127238082
i put it in the mod folder

is that not right

>>127238242
i did the latter

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>>127238049
You opened it with victoria2.exe, right?
t. guy who made that mistake

>>127238206
Just replied to the same comment twice, thinking they were separate.

Hands up, that was autistic as fuck.

>>127238261
t. H(atred of)P(roletariat)M(asses)

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I sure do love watching denmakr not do jack shit even with 4k funding and the best mercenaries while I fuck my new mongolian wife

seriously this is rediculous

>>127238227
>>127237907
Soviet union ~ Britain pre independence of ireland

Ireland and Ukraine were the secondary powers in both unions, among an overwhelming first power (Russia/England) along with 3rd/4th powers (Belaruse/Scotland/wales etc.)

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>>127238349
Finally, he's been exposed.

This explains his Anti-Chinese sentiment.

>>127237867
Good thing US Marine pops don't need to be separate from US knight pops.

It's almost like we could call them both "soldiers"

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>>127238481
>ireland was more powerful than scotland in the Union

>>127238049
If it's the steam version, the mod sometimes go in a different folder. A mod folder in my documents/victoria 2/Mod

If not they go in the installation directory/mod folder

>>127238206
They are fundamentally different in the mod. Poor pops can demote to serfdom and the pop can grow naturally. They don't move at all, don't have production bonuses and have different ideological leanings and issues.

Slaves don't grow naturally, can't have pops become slaves, stop growing once freedom of womb is enacted, sometimes move with aristocrats and have different set of ideologies and issues. Also they get literacy at a way lower rate.

They can't be represented by the same pop.

>>127238128
Sorry I should've said "Refusing the Line of Advantage" decision. Here's the start of the text from the JAP file
refuse_line_of_advantage = {
potential = {
OR = {
tag = JAP
tag = TKG
}
civilized = yes
has_country_modifier = fukoku_kyohei
NOT = {
has_country_flag = has_line_of_advantage
has_country_flag = refused_line_of_advantage
}
}

>>127238128
Well, the reformulation made space for Japanese culture to become internationally known and recognized
Before the reformation Japanese culture wasn't that well kmown in the West and not culturally significan't to international culture but I guess you could argue that even today it is still seen as exotic and that it only started to be recognized by the international art community (which I guess is what the tech tree represents in regards to prestige) after WWII

>>127238481
They're not remotely similar, culturally, economically or politically, the only similarity is they were a lesser part in a union, this doesn't make them "basically the same"

>>127238509

>H "Gas the lower class" PM

>>127238647
>>127238561
I'm not even the guy who said it, just trying to justify t.bh

>>127238561
t. alex salmon

>>127238528
>In a game where both US marines fight knights, we could represent them with the same pop

>>127238481
>Ireland
>the secondary power inside the UK
¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿?????????؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟
¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿?????????؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟
¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿?????????؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟

>>127238626
>>127238206

>In terms of Political reforms.

Learn to fucking read HPM.

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>>127238349
HPM is a nadzie!!!
also, unHPM is now finaly meme free
everything is historicaly accurate
>>127238626
>replying to bait, robs and shitposters
why?

>>127238764
>unHPM is now finaly meme free
Did he delete his entire mod?

>>127238735
>stating historical fact makes me alex salmond
okay paddy

>>127238804
nah, i changed the names only
Celtic union to Celtic Congress
Teutonia to Germania

>>127238764
>asshurt HPM defense force shows up
Your little demagogue has been exposed you cuck, give it up

>>127238746
Ireland would beat you in a fight you sweaty jock cybernat

>>127237838
>>127237907
>>127238227
Why not? Both were conquered by more powerful neighbors, both had their religion as a source of strength, both rebelled at least dozen times against the foreign rule, famines as joint history, both had a large nationalist pro-independence movements in 19th century and tried to create a national state after World War I.

>>127238626
>can't have pops become slaves
Why? This wasn't even the case historically. Tons of people sold themselves into slavery out of poverty.
>Also they get literacy at a way lower rate.
This doesn't make any sense, why would serfs have normal literacy growth but not slaves?

>>127238807

>1832 Scottish reform act - 53 seats in Parliament
>1832 Irish reform act -100 Seats in Parliament.

>>127238934
>asshurt HPM defense force shows up
ok

>>127238959
Oh lad, you don't want to know what you just messed with
faint hues in the distance

>>127229230
not enough Mosley, 0/10

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tfw dank converted abyssiniums
Aragon, Volga Bulgaria, Perm, and France were also mine in CK2 but I released them once they were all fully Coptic

>>127239035
>Why?

Because if serfs had similar mechanics to slaves then serfs would have no reason to exist, proving HPM wrong. Because of this HPM needs to make random changes to serfs in order to justify his own decision to split them.

>>127239001
You can say the exact same thing about India and Khazakhstan you gigantic cock gobbler

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this whole thread
>memes
>mosley
>hpm
>rob
>unhpm
>hoi4

10/10

>>127239210
and Scandiavia, forgot to say that

The goal is to possess every region bordering the Indian Ocean, which at this point is trivially easy.

>>127238626
I had it in the documents one, moved it to the installation directory and it works now.

Cheers

>>127239309
>yiOjwOA.png
Add reddit to that list.

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Enjoying the tibet memes, lads?

>>127239309
Hi unhpm!

>>127239001

>Ireland
>Conquered

Holy fuck people over simplify some

>both had their religion as a source of strength

To be honest that didn't become a thing in Ireland until after the United Irishmen rising, Theobald Wolfe tone along with plenty of other Nationalist Irish leaders were Protestants.

>Both rebelled about a dozen times.

Ireland had no real nationalist uprisings till the United Irishmen rebelled once in the 1790's due to the social repercussions of a famine and unfair treatment within a personal union, then once in 1916, that's a fucking big gap, any others in between were incredibly minor.

The rest is irrelevant, they're nothing alike, culturally, politically or economically.

>>127238763
They can't be on the same political reform either since it's a progressive tree. If Russia had "Slavery/Serfdom" and moved to "Freedom of Womb" it wouldn't make sense as serfs weren't owned so freedom of womb doesn't make sense in that context.

How do you think it could work?

>>127238634
Wasn't until the 50's japanese culture considered exotic?
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-34005681

Anyway, I don't think japanese culture had international projection until after WW2. It had even less projection outside before because everything was closed.

>>127238632
I still don't get it, sorry anon. What that has to do with the Japan tech school?

>>127239035
New world slavery wasn't like that, they rarely returned and lots of pops preferred poverty to it. Also that's how Paradox did it, so I'd rather leave it like that.

I also forgot that serfs can get out of serfdom with money or just by promoting (which is admittedly is harder).

>This doesn't make any sense, why would serfs have normal literacy growth but not slaves?
Because serfs were considered people while slaves were products. Investment in serfdom education was more common (relatively speaking) and could come from themselves or the church while slave owners could simply forbid it all.

>>127239341
No problem anon.

>>127239057
This means literally nothing, they still were far more oppressed

>>127239309
you focus on the wrong memes lad
this whole thread
>Ireland
>Conquered
>gigantic cock gobbler
> sweaty jock cybernat
>fucking nazi punk when bernie wins he'll make you pay
>Enjoying the tibet memes, lads?
>Add reddit to that list.
>ucking lol, nice way to avoided confronting that these people aren't part of your scary Chinese bogeyman that you attribute all criticism with.
>the future is so bright, i dont need my eyes to see
>Serfs "sold" themselves too. Doesn't make that slavery.
>hpm is a nadzie
>>127239415
hi unrob

>>127239589

>Far more oppressed

Catholic emancipation in the UK was in 1829, 3 years before the redrawing of Political boundaries, in terms of Political representation, they were far above the Scottish in Parliament, due to the fact that Ireland was larger and had more people.

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I love thin coast provinces.

Pls don't buy HOI4.

>>127239930
I love you

>>127239634
The >Ireland
>Conquered

thing was me but I'm not rob, the rest were probably rob.

>>127239589
>far more oppressed

lmao

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>why not try to make Byzantium with some weird heretical religion
>it has to be Orthodox in nature
Well,i made it separate one for fun and well...that sure is an interesting emblem for it.
Did it really look like that?

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>>127240008
I love you too, anon.

>>127239569
about the japan tech school, i had in mind that one decision leads to one school and the other decision leads to another. whether you agree with this is up to you. its just annoying seeing japan with military-industrial complex when they are an island nation.

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I am ready to make Athens Great(er) again!

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>>127237605
DESU the most important thing from Res Publica was National Focus.

And since modding is all the rage, yay for writing flavor for 40 earthquakes, and then writing the events for 38 of them.

>>127239210
That just... Has to be boring. Several big empires leaving no real room for any fun.

>>127239589

t.Gerry Adams.

>>127240218
t. Athena

>>127240218
The hell happened to your game?
>not conquering world as Cyprus

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released my negro king because I wanted some more space to not have a gigantic fucking revolt and he wont become nestorian
then i realize he took the title of pisa with him

so... we wuz italians

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i am bored so ill continue the unWilly campaign
"i bugged out the defines.lua edision"
i stopped when i started the war for lithuania against russia
and this shitstorm started
Turks, russians, americans and austrians against englis, germans and french
england is winning in asia and the turkmen states from india but loosing in NA
france still has revolters in the south and almost no army

>>127239930
i love them too
>>127239975
kekd

>>127240218
Godspeed, lad.

>>127240218
What happened to old one where you fled to new world

>>127239569
I guess. But I don't think that the Culture tech tree only focuses on Art and international recognition. Aside from Aesthetics, which clearly focuses on the development of art and international recognition, all the other techs focus on internal development of culture and it's role in the development of the country.
A bonus to culture could also help with Japan expanding into China by making it easier to reach the late Political Thought techs

>>127240212
I don't think they need two steps, I think just one is good enough.

I have no idea on what call the school. Riekisen? Fukoku kyōhei?

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>>127240415
>He hasn't played EU3 pre-Divine Wind

>>127240440
raise the trip

>>127239443
>Ireland had no real nationalist uprisings till the United Irishmen rebelled once in the 1790's due to the social repercussions of a famine and unfair treatment within a personal union, then once in 1916, that's a fucking big gap
Even larger gap for Ukraine: Koliyivshchyna 1768-69 — War of Independence 1917-21.

>>127240546
>playing EU3 pre-Divine Wind
Absolutely disgusting

>>127240512
I fucked it up.(somehow I became orthodox,and lost my megahungary ally.)
Savefiles are gone.

>>127240539
I think Riekisen or shukensen would suit it more, Fukoku kyōhei is something else entirely.

>>127239569
>I also forgot that serfs can get out of serfdom with money
So could slaves. It never fucking happened though, for the same reason it didn't happen for serfs.

>>127240759
because they spent it all on booze

>>127239867
>>127240085
>>127240289
I literally can't understand how you can delude yourself into thinking Ireland was more powerful in the UK than Scotland. Fucking paddies.

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>>127240550>>127240440

Even more revolters in france
and the western forces are winning and pushing forwards
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=I_izvAbhExY

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>>127240218
It is time!
The all powerfull Hungary has joined forces with us!
God is on our side!

>>127237997
what are you talking about Jerusalem is in the hands of our greatest ally

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>>127240886
wot

you are the paddy here, complaining about how they were so oppressed

>>127240227
You also get national focus from common sense these days lad.

>>127240546
>eating an unfinished pie
Yeah....nah

>>127240905
Hey lad can you make some Genoa flags for me?