What went wrong?

Everything?

>>390168207
Nothing

>>390168207
Bandai Namco wanting a sequel in the first place yet alone a 3rd installment

Everything, this game is a disgrace

>>390168207
That it didn't appeal to a minority of autists apparently.

>>390168207
Tried to mix old Souls with BB and failed at being both.

Shit sucked. I rebought BB digitially last week when it was on sale for 8 bux and have been having immense amounts of fun. Something that I never did in DS3

>but the ringed city is soooooo good
nigga that shit is like 5 rooms and should be called the ringed swamp; two of the bosses were great though

Game is shit, unmemorable, and has the worst areas and bosses. I'll take DS2 please, at least there was build variety

>>390168207
boring

>>390168207
The DLC and PvP I'd say. Other than that, I thought it was pretty gud

>>390168418

>if you have standards you are an autist

Not everyone enjoys eating shit

>>390168207
good first time around but horrible replayability. everything is easy to find. nothing new to do.

>>390168207
They put three of the most boring levels in any Souls games in rapid succession right near the beginning of the game (road of sacrifices, farron's keep, catacombs of carthus, which all get progressively worse than the last) which naturally turned many many people off of the game, especially considering its linearity.

If you don't mind linearity and a more arcade-y feel in general, and you make it past those initial shit areas, the game is a fucking blast and has some of the best level design FROM's ever pulled off.

>>390168207
>Shitty level design full of swamps and/or features of swamps.
>Horribly linear.
>Every area is a long hallway with no real reason to explore. Everything good is sitting right in front of the player's face.
>Bonfires are fucking everywhere. They are so common that Estus is actually stronger than the Lifegems in DaS2.
>Enemy placement is even worse than DaS2, and there's an absurd number of enemies in every area.
>Combat has been dumbed down to such a degree that the only way to run out of stamina is to use a heavy weapon and constantly mash heavy attacks.
>You can roll up to a dozen times in a row, Estus is unpunishably fast, making that game a joke.
>Poise is gone. Instead we get hyper armor on attacks that's so absurdly strong poise is irrelevant.
>A bloat of gimmicky and/or bad bosses. Vordt, Abyss Watchers, Aldrich, Yhorm, Wolnir, Ancient Wyrm, Deacons, Greatwood, Crystal Sage, and Soul of Cinder are all terrible bosses with massive and easily exploitable weaknesses or just bad design. That's over half the bosses in the base game. Worse than DaS2 somehow.
>Bad item balance.
>Removed powerstancing despite weapon arts being shit on 9/10 weapons.
>Massive nostalgia pandering for a game that's only 5 years old.
>Graphics are somehow worse than a game that came out before it, running on the same engine, made by the same company.
>From still can't make a consistent framerate.
>Retarded fucking story that's a barebones rehash of DaS1.
>Most of the covenants are pointless or they're fucked.
>PvP is generally bad because of roll spam and Estus spam.
>Developers obviously wanted to make the game difficult, but the roll is too strong and the AI is too fucking terrible, so they just made every enemy swing around like a retard and do insane damage.
>Reused enemies everywhere. There's entire areas where there's absolutely no new enemies to fight.
>Thralls rain from the fucking sky in almost every indoor area.
>Blatantly unfinished shit like Profane Capital.

>>390168207
You weren't good enough

It´s Bloodborne but worse in every aspect and filled with Souls fanfiction

>>390168632
>>390170357
these but unironically

Invasions suck balls
DS2 ends up being better in that regard

too many "annoying" areas/enemies
too little fun exploration

Too much DaS1 fanwanking
Levels weren't very exciting
Ruined poise for no reason

Bosses and covenants were a lot of fun, though

>>390170226
>he game is a fucking blast and has some of the best level design FROM's ever pulled off.
Yes, let's not forget such wonderous achievements as:
>Cathedral of the Elevator Rides to the Single Bonfire.
>Irithyll of the Boring Hallway
>Shitty Version of Anor Londo.
>Irithyll Demon Souls Dungeon Rehash
>Profane Swamp Capitol
>Painted Postcard of Tiny Town
>Ringed City a.k.a We Ran Out of Ideas, Have Two More Swamps

>>390168207
At the end of the day, it didn't play like either Souls or Bloodborne should

The world is extremely linear and chocked full of samey enemies with identical responses to attacks and identical methods of doing so as well.

It's so horribly linear and boring. I tried to play it for the second time to check out the DLCs but I just stopped at the first swamp level, can't even remember the name of most areas anymore.

>>390170540
This was the main reason the game sucked dick for me. The worst part was all the stupid cocksuckers on here defending how much they ruined invasions.

I very nearly bought this on PS4 last time it was on sale and I'm glad I didn't. I'll take my semi-fond memories of DS2 and leave the series for dead.

I thought Bloodborne was a steaming pile of mediocrity, but that's hate speech for a different thread.

>>390170357
>Horribly linear.
Which allowed them to tailor and focus more on the progression through the levels
>Every area is a long hallway with no real reason to explore. Everything good is sitting right in front of the player's face.
This is blatantly untrue, there are tons of hidden shit in most of the areas.
>Bonfires are fucking everywhere. They are so common that Estus is actually stronger than the Lifegems in DaS2.
I didn't like this at first, but I realized that they also bumped up enemy frequency and difficulty by quite a bit. They were trying to minimize the long, boring walks people complain about so often by making the combat harder and more punchy, but with more frequent checkpoints
>Enemy placement is even worse than DaS2, and there's an absurd number of enemies in every area.
Enemy placement was great most of the time, apart from the swamp levels.
>You can roll up to a dozen times in a row, Estus is unpunishably fast, making that game a joke.
Again, this is compensated by faster and more difficult enemies. At the very least I'd say it's different, not inherently worse
>A bloat of gimmicky and/or bad bosses. Vordt, Abyss Watchers, Aldrich, Yhorm, Wolnir, Ancient Wyrm, Deacons, Greatwood, Crystal Sage, and Soul of Cinder are all terrible bosses with massive and easily exploitable weaknesses or just bad design. That's over half the bosses in the base game. Worse than DaS2 somehow.
Many of those are fantastic bosses, what are you talking about?
>Massive nostalgia pandering for a game that's only 5 years old.
I hear this complaint all the time but didn't really pick up on it at all in-game. They take place in the same universe. Of course there will be connections
>From still can't make a consistent framerate.
Literally works on my machine
>Thralls rain from the fucking sky in almost every indoor area.
The fuck? They're in a few specific areas, namely just Undead Settlement, Cathedral, and Lothric Castle.

If i didn't respond to a point, I agreed with it

>>390168207
The autistic fanbase

>>390171274
>Which allowed them to tailor and focus more on the progression through the levels

The progression and levels are garbage. Why start your post of with this? No one will even read the rest when clearly you're just fanboying from the start.

>>390171274
>I hear this complaint all the time but didn't really pick up on it at all in-game. They take place in the same universe. Of course there will be connections

DaS2 was set a gazillion eons after DaS1 on the other corner of the world. The game had a lot of problems but it actually succeeded at making you feel gloomy because all the shit from DaS1 was eroded and long-forgotten, yet history was cursed to repeat itself. DaS3 threw all this out the window and started memeing hard by mouthbreathing DaS1 next to the player like so:

>HEY REMEMBER ANDRE AND ONION BRO AND LOGAN AND THE ANOR LONDO GIANT AND LOOK IT'S GWYN'S FIRSTBORN BUT DON'T WORRY HE'S GOT TWO NEW SISTERS PULLED OUT OF OUR ASSES AND SEVERAL GRANDDAUGHTERS

>>390171274
>Which allowed them to tailor and focus more on the progression through the levels
The levels are so fucking bad, I can't possibly imagine how you're going to spin this as a positive.
>This is blatantly untrue
No it isn't. Name ten things worth going out of your way for in DaS3.
>I didn't like this at first, but I realized that they also bumped up enemy frequency and difficulty by quite a bit. They were trying to minimize the long, boring walks people complain about so often by making the combat harder and more punchy, but with more frequent checkpoints
Well they failed on all fronts, because the combat was incredibly easy and I always had Estus.
>Enemy placement was great most of the time, apart from the swamp levels
At least half the game is swamp levels.
>Again, this is compensated by faster and more difficult enemies.
Enemies weren't more difficult. Combat was easier because stamina was a non-issue.
>Many of those are fantastic bosses, what are you talking about?
Please tell me how any of them are good.
>I hear this complaint all the time but didn't really pick up on it at all in-game.
Over half the NPCs are just lazy rehashes of the exact same character from DaS1. There's whole set pieces and segments of the game that are blatantly ripped from DaS1. Much of DaS3's paper-thin lore can't stand on its own because it's propped up so heavily by DaS1.
>Literally works on my machine
We're four entries into the series and front can't optimize. This is made even more egregious since SotFS run fucking perfectly on toasters, even better than DaS1 on the same consoles/PCs. From is just retarded.
>The fuck? They're in a few specific areas, namely just Undead Settlement, Cathedral, and Lothric Castle.
Crucifixion Swamp has a few that sit on the side of a tower, also Dukes's Archives. They're also in Ringed City because From was too lazy to add DaS2's Mannequins. For a game with only 18 small areas, it's annoying to deal with Thralls in nearly a third of them.

>>390171885
>No one will even read the rest when clearly you're just fanboying from the start.
I'm really not though. There a lot I agreed with in your post, and a lot I think the game failed at.

There were many levels in 3 that felt like Undead Burg. They were even more frequent than in 1. Really tightly designed, nearly perfect layout, great, puzzle-link enemy placement, creative blend of aesthetics and abstract level design. The problem with Undead Burg, however, is that once you unlock the door to it from Darkroot Basin and start going through the level in the opposite direction, it fucking sucks. Everyone's looking away from you. The level actually looks uglier, there aren't any great views. That's the problem with the non-linear, open-ended level design of the first game. You either need to compromise between the two directions players will be running, resulting in lost potential on both ends, or you can only focus on one direction, while making the other quite unfun

Dark Souls 3 is far more linear, so levels like Undead Burg were a lot easier to implement well. High Wall, Undead Settlement, Cathedral of the Deep, Lothric Castle, Grand Archives, and Archdragon Peak are all fantastic in their design, but would be ruined by giving the player reason to run through them backwards

>>390172612
*puzzle-like

>>390172612
Basically, you're argument is that DaS3 looks better, therefore the level design is better.

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>>390168207
A year more development time would've saved it.

>>390168207
Focused on showing how it wasnt like dark souls 2 and was instead like dark souls 1 so much it forgot to be its own game

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>>390168207
abandonning some of the good ideas that DS2 had, like dual wielding and NG+ phantoms

Overall it was a much better game that DS2 though. The level design and the bossfights blow it out of the water

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>>390168207
what went wrong is that I CAN'T FUCKING BEAT FUCKING MIDIR

his defenses is insane, even if i could dodge his bullshit the fight would take over an hour

>>390168207
Boring levels, not much room for mistakes, overall easy bosses. The art and pvp were top notch tho.

>>390172596
>The levels are so fucking bad, I can't possibly imagine how you're going to spin this as a positive.
No, there are SOME bad levels, like Catacombs, Farron, and Smouldering Lake. Then there are SOME "eh" levels, like Road of Sacrifices, Consumed King, Profaned Capital, and Anor Londo. The rest range from good to great in my book.
>No it isn't. Name ten things worth going out of your way for in DaS3.
I only played through it once and didn't use guides so I can't give you specific examples, but I remember TONS of times seeing an out-of-reach item corpse and thinking "now how do I get to that?," only to find them after some nice exploring.
>Well they failed on all fronts, because the combat was incredibly easy and I always had Estus.
I agree actually, I don't think they compensated for difficulty enough. They banked on players valuing ashen estus, even though most just ended up with 15+ full HP estus charges by the end of the game
>At least half the game is swamp levels.
Wrong. Demonstrably wrong. Road to Sacrifices, Consumed King, and Irithyll all have small swamp parts. Cathedral has two very small patches of swamp you barely have to bother with. Farron Keep is a swamp level. That's it.
>Enemies weren't more difficult. Combat was easier because stamina was a non-issue.
They were made more difficult. If you don't think they were difficult enough, that's a separate issue, but they're absolutely harder, on average, than the enemies in 1.
>Please tell me how any of them are good.
I will in a new post, give me a sec
>Over half the NPCs are just lazy rehashes of the exact same character from DaS1
They're not rehashes, they're the same fucking characters. It takes place in the same fucking world. Do you get upset that Peach and Luigi are in so many Mario games too?

>>390173148
Not even close, don't try to pull that shit on me. I'm talking about gameplay primarily, and some scenery.

>>390172612
Cathedral of the Meme is a terrible fucking level. Forcing the player to constantly loop back to a single bonfire that's nowhere near fucking anything of interest was god awful. On top of that, the actual Cathedral itself was terrible. It was full of reused enemies and was largely nothing but long empty hallways that surrounded yet another big open empty fucking swamp. To top it all off it has one of the worst bosses in the entire fucking series. All of Cathedral exists to pad the game in the most boring way possible.

They should've shoved Aldrich's fat ass in there and saved us the trouble of dealing Congregation of the Deep, Miyazaki's retarded obsession with ugly monster traps, and the bargain bin version of Anor Londo.

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>>390173148
Dark Souls 3 level design was organic, it used vertical space well and it had an excellent sense of scale.

Basically everything that I have come to expect from Souls level design, and everything that DS2 lacked (outside of the DLC areas at least)

>>390173759
HIT HIS HEAD.
RUN TOWARDS HIS TAIL AND KEEP RUNNING UNTIL THE FIRE GOES OUT
WATCH TAIL
HIT HEAD
RUN
REPEAT

>>390173789
I'm sorry that you didn't enjoy it. It was one of my favourite areas in the series.

>>390173789
>Forcing the player to constantly loop back to a single bonfire that's nowhere near fucking anything of interest was god awful.
That's called clever level design, and it's totally welcome in place of how frequent bonfires are elsewhere in the game. The first game had tons of levels based around single bonfires and opening shortcuts back to them. You are the only person I've ever seen complain about this

>and was largely nothing but long empty hallways that surrounded yet another big open empty fucking swamp
Do you only pay attention to textures/props or something? Yeah the LOOK of the Cathedral was pretty same-y inside, but the variety in the actual geometry of the level was super varied and quite a thrill to explore. It opened up a lot of variety in the combat. Have you forgotten that there's also a varied, equally well designed area surrounding the cathedral? Because that's there too

>>390173789
This. Most of the levels were like this. Exploring one area from diferent perspectives is fun, but having only one main point of interest for the entire location was ultimately upsetting

>>390168207
it feels too compromised, not enough rough edges and thus too unsurprising.

I think its a fun action game, better than pretty much everything else on ps4, which of course isnt saying much. But it never really reasonated with me. I can remember so many cool levels and bosses from Bloodborne but forgotten everything about DS3. Its a safe game that lacks..well , soul. Its good from soft are gonna do something new now, I think their heart wasnt in this one

>>390174204
Dude, that was ONE house. yeah, it was big, but still - ONE house. Oh, and a cemetary.

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>>390174589
What point are you trying to refute here, anon?

Game had no soul

It was a very safe, sensible souls game as it were, kind of paint by numbers

The bosses were similar to what we had, it relied heavily on references to older games, and didnt develop its own characters nearly well enough

The PvP is abysmal, killing invasions killed the longevity and replay-ability the game had - and the sheer level of phantoms/healing available for your average host forced invaders to adopt cookie cutter one shot builds in order to stand a chance. Or go to do duelling/arena which is shit because....

The massive influx of 'combo' weapons like RKPGS, Splitleaf, which turned learning a weapon and its strong and weak moves into MASH L1 FOR ANIME ONE SHOT COMBO and arena is pretty much just spacing each other out until one of you lands your one shot

Rolling frames were longer than ever, and cheaper than ever, so spam rolling to escape stuff is incredibly easy - and the only way bosses could counter this was to have stupidly long combos consisting of 8+ hits like Pontiff - this completely invalidates blocking as an option as the stamina drain will stagger you every time.

Straightswords were the all rounder style weapon, easiest to use and were also the best weapons in the game by a landslide at launch which made the game laughably easy

I could go on but i think i've made my case. DaS2 had horrible failures but at least it tried to innovate

>>390171274
If you are actually defending infinite rolls you have brain damage

>>390171262
Funny, I had the same experience going from 1 to 2

>>390174915
They shifted the combat's primary attention onto dodging. Again, I'm not saying that's better (I enjoy 1's combat quite a bit more) but it was still quite fun to master, as someone who rarely dodged on my first Dark Souls playthrough.

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>>390174720
>It was very safe, sensible souls game as it were, kind of paint by numbers

Exactly. Dark Souls 2 was actually innovative and if Bamco hadn't fucked Dark Souls 2 over in their greed, Dark Souls 2 would've been amazing and considered the best game in the series. It's still much better than Dark Souls 3 in most aspects.

>>390168307
spbp

>>390174680
Disappointing.

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>>390175212
Good argument

>>390173781
>No, there are SOME bad levels
Farron, Consumed King's Garden, Profane Capital, Irithyll, Irithyll Dungeon, and Ringed City all have features of swamps, or at least feature swamp-like parts.

Smouldering Lake, Catacombs, and Anor Londo are garbage areas. Worse than Earthen Peak. I'd go so far as to say that Smouldering Lake and Farron Swamp are two of the three absolute worst areas in the series.

>now how do I get to that?
9/10 times you just walked a short path around a building and you'd get it.

>Demonstrably wrong.
Might be wrong, but it's not wholly inaccurate.

>They're not rehashes, they're the same fucking characters.
Not all of them. Some of them have different names, but look exactly the fucking same for virtually no reason other than to pander. NPCs that weren't rehashes of older ones were throwbacks to shit from DaS1, like "Anri of Remember Oscar of Astora".

>Do you get upset that Peach and Luigi are in so many Mario games too?
Mario games generally don't create a completely new character named "Merio of the Plumber Kingdom" and try to pass it off as something new.

>>390173914
>Dark Souls 3 level design was organic, it used vertical space well and it had an excellent sense of scale.
Having a bonfire every 40 to 100 yards is organic to you? What about the areas where that isn't the case, and they're forced to put in hundred story high elevators to try and create "clever" shortcuts? Does that seem organic? How about the fact that there's areas where you can' light a bonfire, see another bonfire nearby, and then trip over two more bonfires on the way, like in Undead Settlement?

The enemy variety is trash. Filled with shitty DaS1 enemies that feel out of place.

>>390168207
Linear play style.
Intermittent lag spikes.
No central fire link like shrine.
You literally have to teleport to get to and from the hub, loading screens are the lazy dev's way of solving problems.

>>390168207
>Lets shoehorn Bloodborne combat into a Dark Souls game and put a bunch of throwbacks to previous games. Poise? Oh dont worry we just removed that. Rollrollrollrollrollrollroll Remember Patches? It'll be epic!

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Im playing it and enjoying it right now. I never played previou Dark Souls game either, just Bloodborne.

>>390168207
There's only one path in that fucking game.
In the other two there were short cuts to different areas if you knew how to get to them.

>>390174204
>That's called clever level design
It's called stupid level design. The point of a shortcut back to the bonfire is for it to be a fucking shortcut, not a minute+ ride down an elevator and then sprint down a hallway or across the rooftop.

It's better, and faster, to just run straight to Deacons and get that bonfire so you don't have to deal with their "cleverness".

>It opened up a lot of variety in the combat.
You'll have to explain this to me, considering that the only variety in Cathedral was the cursed beast that falls from the inexplicable black void above you. Everything else is reused enemies, those giant maggots that don't do shit, or the comically awful giants that can't even hit you if you stand still.

>Have you forgotten that there's also a varied, equally well designed area surrounding the cathedral?
I hope you're not calling the almost completely linear run through a graveyard packed with enemies "well designed". That stretch of nothing lasts a whole thirty seconds and there's almost nothing of note to find anywhere out there.

>>390175105
Except the single most important aspect, which is the gameplay. Everything right down to the way your character moves feels like fucking garbage, and the level design is shit. All the neat weapons and armor and boss moves don't mean shit if the game inherently plays bad right off the bat.

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>>390168207
It was a little too easy, particularly coming off of Bloodborne. If even a retard like me can beat bosses on the first try it's not a proper Souls-like in my book.
I still really liked Nameless King though.

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>Swamps
>mediocre first DLC
>Dedicated stat for fashion
>This awesome weapon is shit.

>Demon's Souls have linear level design
>"..."
>Bloodborne has linear level design
>"..."
>Dark Souls 2 and 3 have linear level design
>"Wow this is fucking terrible, what went wrong you guys?"

>>390175305
>all have features of swamps, or at least feature swamp-like parts.
And that's six out of 21 areas in the game, including the DLC and not including Firelink Shrine. And some of those "swamp-like areas" can be avoided entirely if you choose. So no, the game is not "at least half swamp levels"
>Smouldering Lake, Catacombs, and Anor Londo are garbage areas.
True. Although I wouldn't call Anor Londo a garbage area, since the original area is great, so the question is rather "why is this in the game?"
>I'd go so far as to say that Smouldering Lake and Farron Swamp
Catacombs of Carthus is WAYYY worse than Farron Keep. You don't even have to stick around Farron Keep for that long once you figure it out.

>9/10 times you just walked a short path around a building and you'd get it.
What exactly did the first game do different? Other than insanely specific secrets you pretty much require guides to think of

>Might be wrong, but it's not wholly inaccurate.
I'll give you that no matter what the percentage is, there's too much swamp

>Not all of them. Some of them have different names, but look exactly the fucking same for virtually no reason other than to pander. NPCs that weren't rehashes of older ones were throwbacks to shit from DaS1, like "Anri of Remember Oscar of Astora"
Those examples I can understand being annoyed by, but stuff like Siegmeyer and Andre doesn't bother me at all

>Mario games generally don't create a completely new character named "Merio of the Plumber Kingdom" and try to pass it off as something new.
How about the LoZ series?

>>390175920
Gameplay in every DaS game is inherently terrible when comparisons are drawn to other games. You idiots need to stop scapegoating DaS2 like it's some red headed stepchild that fucked something up, when it's only marginally worse than the previous entry.

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>>390175893
Describe to me what exactly the problem with the 2nd option is

>>390168207

Not that much really. It is just really fast and i dont have the reflexes anymore. Sure i can still beat smough and orenstein but still, its just too fast. Ds2 had the perfect tempo for my tastes

>>390175305
What was the irithryll and irithryll dungeon swamps?

>>390176246
>Siegmeyer
Siegward is literally a rehash of Siegmeyer. If Andre had any reason at all to be there, it would be fine, but he doesn't. He's just fucking there for no reason when we could've gotten someone new, with their own story.

>How about the LoZ series?
The difference between Dark Souls, and the series you're drawing comparisons with, is that people go into those games expecting to see Mario and Zelda and Samus or whatever the fuck, because that's the way it's always been.

Dark Souls 2 was a completely self contained story that can stand on its own, even under the most nitpicking scrutiny. For all the shit it gets, DaS2 can stand on its own and added a lot of nice lore to the series.

DaS3 didn't add anything. At all. Everything new was paper-thing and lacked any real explanation, everything else was an inexplicable cameo or a throwback. We don't go into LoZ expecting to see the same rehashed characters, plot, etc. We go in expecting a decently self-contained story and solid-ish dungeons. You can play any Zelda game without having played any others, and it'll seem fine. If you play DaS3 without having played DaS1 and/or DeS, almost every fucking location and character immediately loses any weight it has and the game feels like cardboard in the wind. It falls flat.

>>390168207
Trying too hard to be Bloodborne

>>390176921
Not sure what he's talking about for the dungeon, but in Irithyll there was a small swamp below the city. It's where you find Greirat's body

>>390177097
Where? You mean the water part just below the bridge?

>>390177284
Yeah
As you can tell, we're seeing some stretches in the definition of "swamp"

>>390176579
I explained exactly why in the post you responded to.

>>390177461
You announced the "point of a shortcut" as if it were a fact and then didn't do any more explaining. Tell me very clearly what the problem is in my picture. Tell me where the detriment is.

>>390177387
You can't possibly tell me that almost every area featuring "waist deep water" is a good thing.

>>390176579
because you can circumvent the whole level by using spook to drop down and run straight to the boss and finish the level in 5-10 minutes.

>>390176246
RInged City has two more swamps faggot

>>390177603
>almost every area
We already went through this. Even with very loose definitions, there are 6 areas that feature a swamp-like area. That's it.

>>390177693
1/3 of the game being swamps, ignoring that the dlc is basically just another giant swamp split in half by a couple of castle rooms, is still not justifiable.

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>>390168207
The first Dark Souls wasn't that great. Let's face it.

>>390177671
Will new players know that?
No
Will people replaying the game who want to skip the area know that?
Sometimes

More importantly though, that's a very specific example that you didn't get out of my image. Pretend there are no skips possible in those levels.

>>390177554
>The point of a shortcut back to the bonfire is for it to be a fucking shortcut, not a minute+ ride down an elevator and then sprint down a hallway or across the rooftop.

Try reading:
>The point of a shortcut back to the bonfire is for it to be a fucking shortcut, not a minute+ ride down an elevator and then sprint down a hallway or across the rooftop.

>>390168207
A few things:
>Linearity
>Lack of content
>Afraid to take risks
>Too much fan service

I do enjoy the game quite a lot but I recently played through SOTFS again and had way more fun with it than my most recent attempt at 3. Granted, 3 is a more polished game but 2's things to do, viable build options and amount of content allow for an insane amount of creativity that 3 seems almost afraid to experiment with.

>>390177603
the irithryll """""""""""swamp""""""""""" has like three enemies, no poison and lets you jog through it
sure maybe you could argue that the slow was a bit unnecessary but you're making way too big of a deal of it

>>390177791
>1/3 of the game being swamps
"No"
6 (Maybe 7? I haven't played Ringed City so you tell me) levels feature even VERRRRY small swamp areas. Many of them are completely avoidable.

So 1/3 of the levels include, at the very least, small swamp-like areas, but in most of those cases the swamp takes up less than a fifth of the area.

I'm not defending swamps, I hate them too, but DS3 didn't have as much of a problem with them as you people keep claiming

>>390177902
The point of a shortcut is to make it easier to get to a place once you've already visited it. Cathedral does this. Indisputably.

>>390178264
>Cathedral does this. Indisputably.
Is that why it's easier and faster to run to the boss of the area and just get the bonfire there?

>>390178471
1. New players not using guides will not see any way to do that
2. That's how you make sure you show up underleveled and without possibly crucial items

Now FUCKING STOP using Cathedral-specific examples and AND ACTUALLY FUCKING TELL ME WHAT THE INHERENT PROBLEM WITH THE SECOND OPTION IS
>>390176579
>>390176579
>>390176579
>>390176579
>>390176579

>>390178147
If you're doing it with a counter, Ringed City actually has three new swamp areas by bonfires. So 9.

>>390178723
but most of ds3 is the first option

Only Cathedral is the second. ONLY. CATHEDRAL. And it does it poorly.

>>390178773
We're only counting by level. Otherwise, you could make Farron Keep sound twice as bad as it actually is just by cutting the swamp in half with a strip of land

>>390178723
>New players not using guides will not see any way to do that
So bad design is fine as long as the player doesn't know any better? Is that your argument?

>That's how you make sure you show up underleveled and without possibly crucial items
Underleveled because you skipped a bunch of enemies and killed the boss? What crucial items are you even referring to? Most of the best items in DaS3 are on the path to the area's boss. This can't be argued.

>FUCKING STOP using Cathedral-specific examples
You realize that we're talking about the Cathedral and how they failed miserably at creating a level of looping "shortcuts" right? We're not talking about it as a general design philosophy you retard.

>>390178858
>Only Cathedral is the second. ONLY. CATHEDRAL. And it does it poorly.

First of all, no. Grand Archives exist.

Second, what fucking point of mine are you refuting? I never said there are more areas that do this in 3. I said Cathedral has great design, you said it doesn't because it only has one bonfire, I asked what the problem is with only one bonfire, you refused to answer and instead gave non-problem reasons specific to Cathedral, and then you said "BUT CATHEDRAL IS THE ONLY AREA THAT DOES THIS!!!"

Pull yourself together and concentrate, dude

>>390178890
What? Farron Keep is literally a giant swamp. You make no sense. It isn't two swamps. But it is one of the biggest levels in the game, and it's entirely swamp.

Ringed City is mostly swamp.

The Crucifixition woods are basically a swamp, basically just the same thing as Farron Keep but above it and less purple.

Irithyll Dungeon 100% has a swamp

etc

There is a shitton of swamp in this game you delusional faggot, especially when everyone would prefer if there was *none* so you trying to justify the amount doesn't matter. as basically a third of the game has some semblance of swamp (and the other 2/3s are just linear castles).

>>390173759
>meant to be the ultimate Dark Souls challenge (according to dev)
>fast attacks that kill you in 1 to 2 hits
>massive amount of health and defense
>spams aoe attacks
>giant ass boss, but hard to hit because he constantly shuffles about just inches from the tip of your weapon
>devs forgot to take into consideration that players will actually need to see what the boss is doing inorder to fight him.
>camera never lets you see anything except his feet when you're up close enough to hit him
>camera flips around wildly while the boss constantly spazzes out
>devs say "fuck it, lol, git gud, amirite" and ship the DLC out anyway

I feel your pain...

>>390179469
Grand Archives isn't the same at all. You moved the bookcase but will still use the next bonfire except for maybe one time. It doesn't constantly centralize itself.

>>390179469
You're arguing with multiple people dipshit. I never once said anything about bonfire numbers.

>>390179147
>So bad design is fine as long as the player doesn't know any better? Is that your argument?
Why are secret shortcuts bad design? Is the staircase skip in DS1 Anor Londo bad design? I don't think so. It's a neat trick for experienced players who don't have any more level to explore and want to cut straight to the point.
>Underleveled because you skipped a bunch of enemies and killed the boss?
Yes. What is hard to understand about that? The game is designed around the assumption that you'll be killing enemies in between bosses
> What crucial items are you even referring to? Most of the best items in DaS3 are on the path to the area's boss. This can't be argued.
The prove to me what you just said, and I won't argue it
>and how they failed miserably at creating a level of looping "shortcuts" right?
And yet you haven't given me a single reason to believe that. You just said "SHORTCUTS AREN'T SUPPOSED TO BE A MINUTE LONG ELEVATOR RIDE" but there are no minute-long elevator rides in the entire game.
>We're not talking about it as a general design philosophy you retard.
Forgive me for not quite understanding your arguments when you articulate them so poorly

>>390179543
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSbXvn-qglA
hmmm

>>390180067
>Why are secret shortcuts bad design?
I'm convinced you can't read.

>Is the staircase skip in DS1 Anor Londo bad design?
No one is talking about anything other than Cathedral here. This is a thread talking about Dark Souls 3. Stop bringing up shit no one is referring to and getting blown the fuck out over it.

>You just said "SHORTCUTS AREN'T SUPPOSED TO BE A MINUTE LONG ELEVATOR RIDE" there are no minute-long elevator rides in the entire game.

>Forgive me for not quite understanding your arguments when you articulate them so poorly
Every single post your responded to is talking about Cathedral of the Deep. I don't know how the fuck you could miss that "articulation".
You really need to learn how to read. Seriously. Your comprehension is non-existent.

>>390168207
pOIsE

>>390179512
>The Crucifixition woods are basically a swamp
there's like one 5 square meter spot where you're affected in any way by the water and that's just so you can't ninja loot the pyromancy tome by dodging the crabs
unless you're incredibly annoyed by the sound of splashing water you're complaining about literally nothing

>>390180214
oh, I see what I did wrong. I didn't put enough stat points into autism and free time. I better go respec. Thanks anon!

>>390180461
>I'm convinced you can't read.
For fuck's sake you still haven't told me WHY being able to run straight to the boss (matter of fact, you haven't even told me how, since I've never seen a way to do it) is a bad thing if 1. it isn't obvious at all, 2. it saves time for people who are skilled enough at the game that they have no need to go through the rest of the level if they choose not to, and 3. the rest of the level doesn't suffer because of it.

>No one is talking about anything other than Cathedral here. This is a thread talking about Dark Souls 3. Stop bringing up shit no one is referring to and getting blown the fuck out over it.
I was simply bringing up a different example of a big skip in between a bonfire and a boss that I do not think is in any way detrimental. That's completely related if it's analogous. If it isn't analogous, tell me why.

>Every single post your responded to is talking about Cathedral of the Deep. I don't know how the fuck you could miss that "articulation".
In this initial post >>390173789 you said "Forcing the player to constantly loop back to a single bonfire that's nowhere near fucking anything of interest was god awful"
Forgive me, but that sure fucking seems like you have a problem with the design philosophy behind single-bonfire shortcut levels. You could say that exact same thing about any other level that uses this system from any of the games; Painted World of Ariamis for example

>>390168207
not as fast as bb. characters are so slow

>>390168207
Fun romp worth a playthrough, but doesn't really introduce anything new.

File: 1502955737110.gif (469KB, 512x807px) Image search: [Google]

469KB, 512x807px

Will they make a souls game with combat that has more than four attacks any time soon?

>>390182154
R1, R2, L1, L2, Rolling R1, Jumping R2, Running R1, Running R2, and other weapons have kick moves

>>390176247
How is Soul's combat inherently terrible? Because you can't animation cancel? They're generally regarded as having some of the best combat in the action RPG genre. DS2 was the red headed step child, motion captured animations and generally slower animations made everything feel floaty, even the movement felt floaty and unresponsive. It's akin to The Witcher 3, but not as horrible.

>>390181536
Because the "shortcuts" are a waste of time. How does this concept just fly over your head when I've explained it several times now? They fucked up, and the shortcuts aren't shortcuts. They're not shortcuts. The run to loop around takes too fucking long. They aren't shortcuts.

>I was simply bringing up a different example of a big skip in between a bonfire and a boss that I do not think is in any way detrimental
That's great, we're not talking about other examples. Shortcuts work just fine outside of DaS3, for the most part. Even DaS2 has better "loop back in on itself" levels like Forest of the Giants or whatever that place was called. DaS3, and the Cathedral especially, failed at doing this, in a spectacularly tedious way.

>Forgive me, but that sure fucking seems like you have a problem with the design philosophy behind single-bonfire shortcut levels.
I say Cathedral three times, in every other sentence, and I refer specifically to things in Cathedral. How did you extrapolate that I'm referring to a design philosophy as a whole from one sentence surrounded by words that refer directly to Cathedral of the Deep? Especially since the post I responded to was speaking about that SPECIFICALLY, and every post I made after that I spoke about it SPECIFICALLY. That's a special kind of autism.

>>390182668
> They aren't shortcuts.
they saved me a lot of time

>>390183274
"I hate the Professor Layton games. My least favorite part is how you need to solve puzzles to beat the game. Professor Layton has too many puzzles and I don't like puzzles. Solving the puzzles was really tedious."

After reading that, do you think it's fair to extrapolate that I hate puzzle games in general, not just Professor Layton? I think so. I didn't say "I like puzzles in other games, just not here." All I said was how much I hated the puzzles

>They fucked up, and the shortcuts aren't shortcuts. They're not shortcuts. The run to loop around takes too fucking long. They aren't shortcuts.
Maybe I'm a complete retard, but I still don't understand what separates this from other shortcuts to you. Getting from the bonfire, through a shortcut, to where you left off NEVER takes anywhere near as long as it would to play through the bulk of the level again. There are no 1 minute + elevator rides like you claimed. There are routes you unlock that allow you to get back to your previous position in a way that is faster than going through the whole level again. It is a moment of relief when you find them. Just like every other level that does this. Unless you're going to really show what specifically is so bad about these, I'm going to ignore this point.

>>390184058
Read this and tell me how much it applies to other locations in Dark Souls games:
>Forcing the player to constantly loop back to a single bonfire that's nowhere near fucking anything of interest was god awful.
Is that true in any other DaS1 or 2 location? I don't think so. Now read the numerous times I refer to the fucking Cathedral of the Deep in that post. Read that the original post was about he Cathedral, and every post I made was in relation to it, and how I specifically pointed this out. Understand why I'm so confused at how you think I just hate the design of looping back to a single bonfire as a whole.

>Maybe I'm a complete retard, but I still don't understand what separates this from other shortcuts to you.
Let me explain this one last time, using examples:
>Undead Burg
>>Find bonfire.
>>Traverse through level until you get to the bridge. Run across bridge, kick ladder down. Bonfire is RIGHT THERE.

>Forest of Giants
>>Cardinal Bonfire.
>>Go down ladder.
>>Run down short hall, up that tree or whatever the fuck, run across the rampart and bomb the wall.
>>Bonfire is RIGHT THERE.
>>Run down the fortress to the outer wall, loop around and go back into the hall from earlier, open a new door that leads straight the initial ladder that goes to the bonfire.

>Cathedral of the Deep
>>Run all the way up and through the cemetery.
>>Run passed everything on the rooftops.
>>Get inside the cathedral itself.
>>Run passed giant.
>>Run down cathedral halls.
>>Open giant double doors.
>>Take elevator.
>>Loop around an empty balcony.
>>Open another pair of doors.
>>Bonfire.

as opposed to:
>>Run all the way up and through the cemetery.
>>Run passed everything on the rooftops.
>>Get inside the cathedral itself.
>>Run down hall to first floor.
>>Run passed giant.
>>Kill boss and get bonfire directly inside the cathedral that skips all the bullshit looping around and elevator riding outside that takes anywhere from 1-3 minutes.
>>Leave.

>>390168632
>Game is shit, unmemorable, and has the worst areas and bosses.

Wrong

>>390168307
spbp

>>390185237
shut up

>>390168632
>>390168302
/thread
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>>390177824
dumb frogposter

>>390185237
>hurr if you're good at the game you don't need checkpoints hurr
wow great opinion you retarded fag fuck

>>390185237
>I really hate elevators
ok

>>390187094
You don't need to be good at DaS3 to run passed everything and kill a few passive enemies that substitute for Cathedral's "boss".

>>390187181
I hate wasting time with pointless shit that thinks it's clever, which is DaS3's looping bonfires in a nutshell.

People got gud. Bloodborne didn't have the same oomph considering I played the shit out of DeS and DaS 1 and 2. Dark Souls 3 comes along and didn't throw anything new, so it was just a cakewalk. Where as you might die to a trap or a guy hidden behind a corner might hit you in the previous games, in DaS3 its just formulaic and predictable. The only times you should die in DaS3 are to bosses.

>>390187643
I'd love to see how you figured out the layout and all the enemy placements and how the boss is easy without playing the game first.