TONIGHT'S THE NIGHT

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>>389926584
Tbh I'm still probably going to be playing off and on for another 5 years even if the update never releases. I like fucking around on hybrid demo and Medieval Mode too much to quit.

Also the update literally wouldn't be tonight because the time at which they release updates is usually tuesday to thursday, and it's currently sunday in Seattle. Valve doesn't release tf2 major updates on weekends or fridays

I see this fucking thread every god damn night and ignore it because I couldn't give a shit about this game anymore.

But I'll bite, tonight's the night for WHAT?

WHAT could possibly salvage this sad sack of a once fantastic game?

this game is bad because Valve added hats

Uninstalled and I don't regret it.

This game is a shadow of its former self. And I'm speaking as someone who's been here since Beta.

>>389927050
not him but the Pyro/Jungle/Contract update will contain:
>3 new weapons for Pyro
>rebalancing and bugfixing of Pyro and Pyro's existing weapon unlocks where deemed necessary by the TF Team
>Rebalancing of multiple other weapons, including a really cool buff for Mantreads and a deserved nerf to a bunch of OP weapons
>new achievements
>new taunts
>new cosmetics (of course)
>change to the contract system so you can choose what you want to do
>New Jungle-themed map made by Valve
>host of Jungle-themed maps made by the community
>5 minute long SFM video in the style of Meet the Team videos
>2 balance changes to the map cp_Badlands

Sources: the TF2 website, an interview with Uncle Dane and the TF Team, an interview with Valve News and the TF Team, b4nny, and an AMA with Gaben/Dave Riller
>>389927140
retard http://www.teamfortress.tv/35222/no-hats-mod

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>>389927150

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>>389927432

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>>389927783
Post a timestamped camera photo of your computer screen with it in your inventory, or I'm calling bullshit.

It's not at all hard to get a photo of a platinum badge off Google to pretend to prove something.

>>389927917

Look for that specific image, you drooling table.

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>>389928034
>Crop a full screenshot of someone else's steam inventory
>Completely undetectable through reverse google search
Like I said, it's not hard to do. I took a screenshot of some guy's HL Steel medal just now. It will be undetectable by Google reverse search.
Post the timestamped camera photo of your inventory with the badge in it, or fuck right off.

>>389927140
No. The problem is that they focus on hats and pretty much nothing else.

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>>389926584
The only thing I play modern TF2 for is MvM, not sure how the update will affect that, not too concerned.

Anyone else miss TF2C? I had so much fun in that for a few months but the community seemed to dry up overnight. I still check the servers about once a week hoping that one day people will come back but it's a ghost town.

When is the 10th anniversary again?

>>389926584
Come on anon, I stopped playing the game when I recognized it was circling the drain, it's time to hang up your hat and call it a day.

>>389933068
10th October
Weren't people saying this update was meant to come out last month? Not going to be surprised if they save it for the games 10th birthday

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>people say the game is ruined
>gameplay is more or less fundamentally the same and better than most shooters released now

Only thing thats even compared for me is Quake Champions

>Pyro will never be good

>>389933448
>wanting a fundamentally underpowered class to be good

>>389933503
>give airblast jump
>give longer range on flamethrower cone
>make flamethrower harder to aim to compensate, increasing skill
it is now no longer fundamentally underpowered

>>389933979
>make him a monkey that likes peanut butter XD

>>389934321
uh

>>389933979
Pyro is fundamentally underpowered due to mediocre mobility, poor damage output (lowest burst damage of any combat class and afterburn is a joke), and pathetic range (medic's syringe gun has higher DPS at any range, and longer range to boot). Your suggestions don't address these problems at all, an airblast jump is moot (scorch shot/detonator already cover that), slightly longer flamethrower range still leaves pyro with the poorest weapon range, and making the flame have smaller particles doesn't make it less underpowered.

>>389934501
can you scorch/det jump across the map like the soldier can with rockets?

>>389934584
Det jumping fucking sucks.
Pyro doesn't even have half the mobility demo/soldier have.
Like that anon said, pyro's real problem is shit damage. Despite being a class based around close combat, almost every other class is better at close range than pyro.

>>389934584
No, but if you're saying pyro should airblast jump like a soldier can rocket jump that's silly. For starters, it would entirely scrap how airblast currently works. The best you can hope for is a jet pack like the fortress forever pyro has. Even with that, pyro still has no range and no damage, these are fundamental issues with the class. It'd be better off with a lightning gun than with its fire gun.

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>>389927917
eyy bby, another anon here

I absolutely hate what TF2 and Valve have become, and sincerely hope there's a day when they go back to games instead of making "games" that only exist to offer marketplace transaction fees for them to effortlessly drink for years on end, occasionally spruced with ESPURTS for taste

Name one (1) good thing valve has done since adding refunds
Hard mode: name one good thing they've done since DOTA 2 besides refunds

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>>389934501
>Your suggestions don't address these problems at all, an airblast jump is moot (scorch shot/detonator already cover that)
Don't get uppity with me when you don't know what you're talking about.
Scorch Shot/Detonator are not used, because they cost Pyro his only reliable damage source, his secondary weapon, in exchange for a high HP cost.

An airblast jump that costs a small amount of ammo in exchange for a significant movement boost (for no self-damage, unlike rocket jumping) would allow Pyro to keep the Shotgun, and have mobility comparable to Soldier but without the HP cost.
>slightly longer flamethrower range still leaves pyro with the poorest weapon range

Consider it this way: compare to Scout. With an airblast jump and a longer Flamethrower range you have a class with 175HP compared to Scout's 125HP, you have a deca-jump as opposed to Scout's double jump, you have two weapons (Flamethrower and Shotgun or Flare) that put out comparable damage to Scout's Scattergun, and you have the ability to inflict a DoT, be immune to DoT, reflect projectiles, and knock back Ubers.

With a longer Flamethrower range and the ability to have an airblast jump, Pyro has comparable mobility and much superior tankiness and utility to Scout, in exchange for slightly less range/damage.

>>389934835
That's not a camera photo, anon.

>tfw wasted 4k hours on this piece of shit

I don't even know why. I hate the fucking game with a passion, and ill never have this time back...fuck this gay earth

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TONIGHT

>>389934780
The guy you are replying to is not me, the guy proposing it.
>if you're saying pyro should airblast jump like a soldier can rocket jump that's silly
No it isn't. It's a great idea.
>For starters, it would entirely scrap how airblast currently works.
No it wouldn't, just make it work like the Force-A-Nature does.

If you're not jumping you airblast normally. If you're jumping and press M2, you get knocked back, allowing for an airblast jump. You can chain this 10 times.

OH SHIT GAME COORDINATOR DOWN
HAPPENING!!!!!!!!

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>>389935432
I WANNA GIVE IT ALL TO YOU

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MEANWHILE AT VALVE

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>>389935386
It isn't, but a quickie mspaint screenshot coupled with an ancient meme should be more than enough

The day I phonepost is the day when backstab detection is actually accurate

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>>389935702
>but a quickie mspaint screenshot coupled with an ancient meme should be more than enough
Nope, it's easily falsifiable

>>389927374
Will they fix the glaring problem with hackers, bots and free accounts?
Inb4 "I didn't see hackers hence the problem doesn't exist".

>>389935702
now i'm horny. Thanks anon! Don't know why you put a spoiler over it

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>Pyro is shit guys
>What? Making the Pyro good? No way, leave it as it is
Fuck you

>>389935906
>Will they fix the glaring problem with hackers, bots and free accounts?
They promised "improvements to Casual and Competitive", I'm not sure if that falls under those.

http://www.pcgamer.com/valve-wants-to-take-a-machine-learning-approach-to-counter-strike-anti-cheat/

If there was an easy solution they probably would have enacted it by now, but they should really hurry up on the solution they said they're going with.

>>389936028
Sounds promising.
I don't know the situation in US servers but here in Europe is full, and I mean really full, of russians that abuse lmaobox and multiple Steam accounts.
Finger crossed.

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>>389935785
It shouldn't be that much of a discount to opposing arguments unless you have nothing else to swing with, but just for you, have a free Duke in addition to my hamfistedly sized down pic~

now go fix backstab detection since Valve doesn't care

>>389936187
The problem is that Valve hires 10x less people than is normal for the industry. So everything they do takes 10x as long.

>>389935335
>small amount of ammo in exchange for a significant movement boost (for no self-damage
This goes against core game balance in TF2. If you want to move you need to take a risk. Scout has a small health pool, soldier+demo blow themselves up, heavy has to wield fists and take bonus damage and the engineer needs to use his sentry on himself. Why should pyro have a rocket jump that doesn't even need to push off of a surface (meaning he can chain jumps mid-air like the beggar's bazooka), doesn't need to reload, and doesn't deal self damage? Even if the pyro gets god-tier mobility like this, so what? He'd effectively become a pesky mosquitoe flying about and sporadically causing afterburn. If he tries to land on someone he'd just be squashed like a bug.

>compare to Scout
First off, the scout can shoot while moving and jumping. Presumably, the airblast jump would require the pyro to hold the flamethrower and have a cool down before he can fire/switch weapons. Let's say despite the pyro manages to get near his opponents without being blasted out of the sky. Then what? He can't spam them from above before dive bombing them. If he gets into flamethrower range with them he's left with the weakest primary in the game and a shotgun and base mobility as jumping around with the flamethrower in close range would leave the pyro vulnerable and unable to counter attack.

>>389935454
My first paragraph covers my thoughts on simply applying a rocket-jump effect to the pyro's airblast.

>>389936459
Of the whole screen so we can see it's not somebody else's profile, thank you.

>>389934501
flamethrower is much easier to aim, so effective DPS will be higher in most close-range scenarios, and it can hit multiple enemies at once which the syringe gun can't

>>389936530
You have been told hard, be quiet already.

>>389935037
>DotA 2
>good

>>389935702
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

>>389935037
Artifact.

>>389935037
seriously drawing a blank here.

>>389936529
>This goes against core game balance in TF2. If you want to move you need to take a risk, Scout has a small health pool
Rubbish.
But let's say it was true.
Scout's risk is his small health pool.
Pyro's risk is his low range.
So that argument is defeated.
>Why should pyro have a rocket jump that doesn't even need to push off of a surface (meaning he can chain jumps mid-air like the beggar's bazooka), doesn't need to reload, and doesn't deal self damage?
Because he's a shit class.
>He'd effectively become a pesky mosquitoe flying about and sporadically causing afterburn
So you're calling the idea overpowered because it "doesn't take a risk".
But then you're calling it underpowered because "he'd be a pesky mosquito".
Make up your mind man.
>Presumably, the airblast jump would require the pyro to hold the flamethrower and have a cool down before he can fire/switch weapons
Nope.
I want to call you out on something here, anon-- you're adding assumptions onto my idea in order to make it easier to argue against. That's called a strawman.
It would work the exact same as the airblast does now, but with knockback while jumping. That's all. No added cooldowns to make it worse as an idea so that you can come up with arguments against it that I never put forward.
>If he gets into flamethrower range with them he's left with the weakest primary in the game
No it's not. It does 157dps with no reload, compared to the Rocket's 140DPS which has to reload, or the Syringe Gun or the Revolver, or the Shotgun's 144DPS which has to reload.

>>389936714
Of the whole screen so we can see it's not somebody else's profile, thank you. You haven't proven shit until then. Stop bluffing.

>>389927374
>2 balance changes to the map cp_Badlands
How so? I never thought Badlands needed a fix. 2_fort on the other hand...

Post your weapon ideas.

Rail Rifle (Sniper)
Positives
>+25 headshot damage
>Fully charged reveals enemies (Note: Not cloaked spies)
>Can shoot through certain objects
Negatives
>-50 damage penalty on non-headshots
>+2 sec reload time
>-10% charge rate

>>389927374
>deserved nerf to a bunch of OP weapons
naw

>>389937132
cluster bomb for the demoman.

you can throw it out and detonate in mid air shooting out a spray of minibombs that explode on contact or after a half second of travel time.

if it sticks to a wall or something it functions like a sticky bomb, where if you detonate it the thing will "pop" out and have the same effect as the air shot but with more damage.

added effect, the secondary explosions always point towards where you're pointing.


you can only have 4 out at a time.

possible side effect where you can charge up the amount of bombs you put in the cluster bomb.

>>389937160
The Ambassador deserved it, deal with it

>>389937425
are you serious

>snipers only moderate counter (besides his fucking self) is shut down with the razor back and a sentry
>how do you counter that? with the amby
>lets fucking nerf the amby because thats unfair for snipers

there is absolutely no reason to nerf the ambassador.

>>389937495
>because that's unfair to snipers

are you genuinely this retarded? you can still kill snipers easily with the new amby, they aren't remotely the problem

>>389937495
You know that at most you are going to do 3 shots with the other revolvers to kill a Sniper? Besides, how many people actually used it for snipers?

Also
>2017
>Complaining about Razorback

>>389937575
>>389937495
Not that anon, but the Razorback is a genuinely broken weapon, and it needs some sort of nerf (like making you immune to overheal). That doesn't mean the Amby (or DR) are any less retarded.

>>389937495
Spies aren't supposed to snipe you across the other side of the map. It basically made Spy a rambo-type class, when they are supposed to avoid fighting first of all.
And Razorback needs to be reworked too. They must add a big ass negative effect to it, because losing the smg is not a downside at all.

>>389935037
the refunds werent even them. They got buttfucked by eu courts and were basically forced to do it. Valve died with portal 2

>>389937564
>bullet spread reduced by 50% instead of perfectly accurate
>im-fucking-plying this isn't a huge deal

imagine all rocket launchers had a 1-40 random angle applied to each shot.

>>389937861
It is not. You can test it out for yourself already by playing on a modded server, it doesn't matter when fighting people in close/mid range. The only thing it prevents is actual across the map sniping.

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>>389937861
>>389937942
Found the images, here you go. It's not a very strong nerf, at all.

>>389937104
>I never thought Badlands needed a fix
competitive players recently started work on a pro version of badlands because there's a few geometry errors that make the rollouts bad. Valve contacted b4nny telling him that no such pro version would be necessary, and that they would make some changes themselves to the official version of badlands

>>389937495
ehh regular revolver kills sniper in three shots. They usually die before being able to react. Problem is the bullet spread on it is so fucking retarded the thing can miss at point blank. I cant aim so I dont use amby. Its absolutely balanced tho

>>389938034
forgot the actual link, fuck

http://imgur.com/gallery/WqxKL

I actually enjoy playing Heavy

>>389938116
you are the 0.01%

>>389938116
Literally nothing wrong with that.

anyone ever go on junction?

you ever notice how its the only map with bloom and HDR?

why did valve remove that from all the other maps.

>>389938338
because two years or so ago they fucked up in recompiling the maps in an update and never updated it

yup

>tfw soldier will never be nerfed

>>389938034
the sentries range is 1100 units

so for the last image, being just within the sentries line of sight you would have a spread like that.

so if a sniper was sitting on or near the sentry, you could very easilly miss an amby shot on him.

>>389938445
yes, so? you're forgetting the class's purpose, using stealth to get close to people and kill them, not sitting in a corner taking potshots at some sniper somewhere, that's the sniper's job

if you're really desparate to take out that sniper, use some corners or take out the engineer as well, like spies are supposed to

why don't they apply the 50% spread to sniper rifles and the amby so hes not able to kill you across the map and spy doesn't need to kill him?

>>389938412
he doesn't need to be nerfed, apart from his weapons
he's pretty evenly balanced alongside scout, demo and sniper

what needs to happen is that medic gets a nerf, engie/heavy get a rework and pyro/spy get a buff

then everyone will be at soldier's strength level

>>389938602
>just rely on more luck for a class that is getting shafted by every single update

honestly I don't even play spy anymore because how bad its gotten, he really doesn't need more nerfs.

>>389938602
>>389938624
instead of adding RNG at all why don't they just change ambassador headshot attacks from critical hits (triple damage with no falloff) to just tripled damage (with falloff)?

>>389937495
Still works against Sniper, you just can't countersnipe him with it from across the map

>still playing TF2
If Valve doesn't care, why should you?

>>389938670
>>389938709
that's a legit argument, the better solution would've been to make the thing stop critting beyond mid-range, the random spread is a dumb solution

that doesn't meant there was no problem

>tf2 will die before demo nerf

>>389938649
Actually this, and I hate soldier.

>>389938787
demo was already nerfed ages ago, soldier is much more of a problem

>>389938723
because it's a good game whether valve cares or not?
The original developers of Chess are incapable of caring about the game because they're dead. Does that stop people from playing?

>>389938784
>the better solution would've been to make the thing stop critting beyond mid-range
Nah that one I can understand them not going with, because how are you meant to know where "mid range" is during a game?
You'd have to add retarded HUD elements and shit and it would quickly become a clusterfuck
>>389938787
demo doesn't need a nerf, dear oldfag who hasn't played since 2014 or later

>all the disguise bugs
>give everyone wall hacks against spies on spawn
>make players see him across the map if he decloaks
>nerf his one useful weapon into the gutter
>short circuit is just anti spy fuckery
>pyro his one counter is getting buffed
>his one counter to spam is unusuable
>the least used weapon in the game and his weapon is getting "buffed" but actually nerfed to be unusable
>pyro update where spy is going to be unplayable for a week


god

damn

>>389937025
I never said insane mobility would make pyro OP; I said it would make him a nuisance. Simply giving him an annoying ability won't make him balanced, and it certainly won't make the game more fun to play.

>It would work the exact same as the airblast does now, but with knockback while jumping
Don't you know that airblast has a cooldown (.8 seconds if memory serves) before the flamethrower can be fired again? This is the cooldown I was referring to. And as you yourself acknowledged, the flamethrower must be the active weapon to airblast jump. This means that the pyro cannot erratically hop around while shooting at the enemy like a scout can. This is not a straw man, this is simply how the mechanic would function in game. And you admitted that those are the limitations of it. It's not a jet pack independent of the pyro's weapons, it is airblast with self-knockback.

>flamethrower isn't weakest primary
Overall DPS isn't what determines the DM capability of a weapon. What matters is burst damage. Every combat class can two shot a pyro in under a second. A pyro needs a second of perfect accuracy (flame particles are floaty, inherit inertia from the pyro's movement, and travel slowly, good luck) at nearly point blank range to kill a scout. What does this mean? Usually, a pyro will lose a fight with a combat class. Go play MGE as a pyro if you don't want to take my word for it.

>>389938993
>>pyro his one counter is getting buffed
eh?

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>>389938993
fuck off, dude

DR and Ambassador are legitimately problem weapons and deserved a change. YER is getting a buff and Spies have had multiple buffs in the last few patches, stop whining.

>>389933315
The game is ruined because the matchmaking is so fucking horrible, which kinda gets in the way of being able to play the game. Besides that prople really wabt some of the proposed balance changes like the dead ringer nerf

>>389939056
>YER is getting a buff

see

this is why no one listens to /v/

>>389938993
dont forget
>the clipping shadows that give away anyone trying to ambush

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>it's been 10 years
i saved some competitive demos from 2009 and i just want to rewatch them and go back

>>389939087
>ignores the rest of the post

see

this is why no one listens to you

>>389939042
>Simply giving him an annoying ability
What is this meant to mean?
What abilities in TF2 aren't "annoying"?
Do you consider Scout's double jump annoying? Soldier's rocket jump? And even if you do, why do we care? It doesn't matter if you find an enemy's abilities annoying, everyone can find something annoying. It only matters if it's fun to use-- and an airblast jump would be very fun to use.
>I never said insane mobility would make pyro OP; I said it would make him a nuisance
You said it would go against 'core game balance'. If, when referring to a buff, that doesn't mean making something OP, then I don't know what the fuck it's meant to mean. But okay, so you admit it wouldn't make Pyro OP. Fine.
>Don't you know that airblast has a cooldown (.8 seconds if memory serves) before the flamethrower can be fired again?
You said before he could switch weapons. >>389936529
>Overall DPS isn't what determines the DM capability of a weapon. What matters is burst damage
Burst damage is not the be all and end all when it comes to TF2 combat. Unless you're at point blank range Heavy has terrible burst (especially if he's not revved) yet his SUSTAINED damage makes him a huge threat.
With better range and better mobility Pyro will be comparable to other classes in combat.
>A pyro needs a second of perfect accuracy
So does Scout to hit stuff with Scattergun; and flame particles are getting reworked, this is pretty much a given.
>Go play MGE as a pyro if you don't want to take my word for it
You are proving yourself incapable of separating hypothetical (my argument) with actual (what I'm arguing should be changed). No shit Pyro is underpowered in MGE right now. Pyro IF he had airblast jumping and more range would be a lot stronger.

>>389938649
his splash damage is retarded. This class doesnt need to aim at all.
And for what fucking purpose does his rockets not have a damage fall off on sentires? Direct hit kills lvl 3 in two fucking shots. Demos equivalent of loch can do that too but its considerably worse in every way.
And this shit has been like this for a decade. How are people not tired of this?

>>389939197
if you consider the YER change a buff I don't really need to listen to "stop whining".

because you're full of shit and that has to be the worst change I have ever seen in my entire life. like it shows just how out of touch valve is with their own fucking game to think dropping 100% of your cloak, something you rarely if ever have unless you're camping ammo, for a temporary disguise. And not only that they think that the YER , which relies enormously on cloaked setup, should have a nerf to its cloak time so that you're only able to stay invisible for 5 seconds and wait twice as long for it to recharge.

Not even half your cloak no they fucking halve the cloak time but keep the recharge time.


and for what? the ability to disguise after backstabbing? When is that useful
when the fuck is that useful unless you're infront of a sentry.

you know whats retarded? that sapper change where spies can basically insta gib your sentry with a revolver unless you are instantly ready for them.

>>389939418
>his splash damage is retarded.
It's a fucking rocket launcher, what do you expect?
>This class doesnt need to aim at all
Wrong, you have to aim if the enemy is good at dodging, and the less accurate your rockets are, the less damage you will do due to splash falloff.
>And for what fucking purpose does his rockets not have a damage fall off on sentires?
So that the game doesn't last forever because an AIMBOT with the second highest HP and second highest DPS in the game is unkillable from a distance and thus allows one team to turtle forever without having to do jack shit?

Every. Single. Class in the game doesn't have damage falloff on Sentries, newfag.
>Direct hit kills lvl 3 in two fucking shots
And in exchange it can't splash damage the Engineer who is repairing the Sentry, or splash damage his Dispenser.

Go try actually USING the direct hit before complaining about it. No lie, swear on my life, I had the same opinion as you until I actually USED the Direct Hit.

Soldier is the class the entire game is balanced around. Don't complain that he needs a nerf, complain that Engineer, Heavy need a rework and Pyro and Spy need a buff.

>>389927374

>b4nny

I thought they learned their lesson after the disaster called matchmaking.

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Hey /v/,
yore
ugleh

>>389939667
yeah I'm iffy too, but that was just the one time

>>389939696
ily anon
ARGH

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>>389939740

>>389938993
I agree about wallhacks. That's it.
Spy is a hard class because it can one shot you at close range and get away with it. It's not supposed to be babby's first class, unlike many think.

>>389938993
pyro is not even spies counter. Especially with new DR/spicicle. 90% of my death are from soldiers
t. spycuck main

>>389939860
thats only because pyro is avoidable. if you were to try and cross point you would do it next to a soldier over a pyro

>>389939431
Point is that Spy had had a lot of buffs recently and DR and Ambassador were (currently ARE because these changes are taking forever) stupid weapons that are both unintuitive and go counter to the class design. A change, whether or not you call it a buff or not, to a COMPLETELY UNUSED WEAPON always means it has a chance to be better than it currently is, too.

What is your opinion on Soundsmith's hat/weapon stereotype videos?

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Can we at least all agree that the Spycicle, Darwin's Danger Shield, Razorback, Sandman, and Natasha are cancerous weapons that the game would be better without? Counter-class counters just shouldn't fucking exist.

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>>389938993
how do you feel about this idea, anon who made that post?
>holding out Sapper now allows Spy to make enemies more vulnerable to damage in an AoE, with the effect increasing in intensity the closer he gets to them
>it gets realer: this can be done while invisible
>the catch: while weakening nearby enemies, they are alerted to your presence with a transparent "Spy nearby!" warning over their health bar. This becomes more opaque the closer the Spy is, leading to a "hot and cold" guesswork of where the invisible Spy is hiding.

thus, Spy will no longer be totally useless when enemies are alerted to his presence after he makes a backstab. After the initial stealthy stab, he smoothly transitions into a game of cat and mouse, sabotaging enemies for his team.
and the Sapper becomes more useful even when no Engineers are on the enemy team

>>389940139
no, but i think we all should agree that class counters are inherently imbalanced and therefore impossible to balance and that there should be no more than a single class to which roles are distributed among the willing

>>389940135
too vague, like horoscopes
>>389940139
I don't think they should be removed, I think they should be improved

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>>389940203
i think that idea is pretty fucking retarded my man

>>389940264
>I don't think they should be removed, I think they should be improved

the inherent design of all of these is shit, though, there's nothing to save a spy knife that makes you fire immune, or shit that stuns

>>389927374
Pretty hard to believe it was like 400 days of no updates for that

>>389939370
>What abilities in TF2 aren't "annoying"?
Stuff that has risk/reward and is skill indexed. An airblast jump, as you described it, on a 175 HP class would be annoying. On CTF, for instance, he could cap more effectively than a soldier with a rocket jumper. Consider that multiplayer games need to have elements that are both fun to play as and fun to play against.

>You said before he could switch weapons.
It takes .5 seconds to swap weapons. A pyro with an airblast jump would be greatly inhibited from attacking while maintaining momentum.

>So does Scout to hit stuff with Scattergun
No, scouts can flick their shots. They do not need to hold down the mouse button and track opponents. And the point I was making was that the pyro cannot deal a lethal amount of damage as quickly as other combat classes in his effective combat range. Other classes deal 200 damage more quickly than he does.

>Pyro IF he had airblast jumping and more range would be a lot stronger.
Neither of these would improve his DM (unless you want the flamethrower to have range like a lightning gun from quake). That is the core of why pyro is weak. I suggested you try MGE because you had previously argued that all pyro needed was mobility. Even taking mobility and kiting out of the equation (which certain small 1v1 maps do) the pyro would still be lackluster.

>>389940203
>-75% resistance ever

No. I think the spy should have gadgets like a "camera" which does the wall hack thing to those nearby it and other shit like that to go with the whole point of spy which is to create paranoia and to pick off key targets to make the job of his team easier.

>>389940139
>Natasha
lol

>>389939642
>It's a fucking rocket launcher, what do you expect?
I expect to not lose half of my health instantly because the cunt shot his instakill weapon at the ground 5 feet away from me. Demo stickies have activation period so you at least have a small chance to escape. Rocket launcher is pretty much hitscan at close range

>So that the game doesn't last forever because an AIMBOT with the second highest HP and second highest DPS in the game is unkillable from a distance and thus allows one team to turtle forever without having to do jack shit?
but why can he do it from across the fucking map? He already does shit ton of damage from mid/close range. Why does he have an ability to snipe nests? Every other class has to come to a sentry attack range to destroy it

>Go try actually USING the direct hit before complaining about it. No lie, swear on my life, I had the same opinion as you until I actually USED the Direct Hit.
I did. Its actually much more balanced then stock. You actually have to have good aim with that. Its not without faults though. Its also almost impossible to airblast as pyro. But thats mostly because bugged aurblast conus
Too bad soldiercucks will never admit it. Being the most broken class and constantly raking in points inflates your ego making you think you are actually skilled.
I dont call for massive nerfs but small adjustments would make the game more fun for everyone (except soldier mains)

>>389940685
I'm not saying it's good, anon

>>389940719
I know. That's why I'm laughing at you.

>>389940139
Yes.

>>389939151
I wish TF2C wasn't dead, it was surprisingly close to that era of TF2.

>>389940796
that doesn't even make any sense

>>389940297
ok, why
>>389940426
>-75% resistance ever
we can tweak the values as necessary if it's OP.
you have to remember that:
1: rather than actually doing damage, you're only making enemies more vulnerable to damage. Spy is competing with Soldier and Sniper and Demo for a class spot. In some cases, making someone 75% more vulnerable to damage from your allied Soldier is not going to be more useful than just having two Soldiers shooting at the same guy
2: you have to be standing literally right next to them in melee range to achieve that, which means soldiers can spycheck for you by just shooting the ground. it's a high reward for extremely high risk
3: you only have a narrow window of time which your allies need to co-operate with you within, because of cloak time limitations

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TONIGHT'S THE NIGHT

>>389939952
No. I avoid soldiers like plague. One whiffed backstab = 100% death. Didnt check for soldier rocket jumping behind while backstabbing engie? 100% death. With pyro you can at least kite him with a revolver

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>>389940371
>Stuff that has risk/reward and is skill indexed
Which an airblast jump is. The risk is ammo, the skill index is similar to FaN.
>he could cap more effectively than a soldier with a rocket jumper
Everyone can cap flags more effectively than a soldier with a rocket jumper, that doesn't mean much.
>It takes .5 seconds to swap weapons.
Every class
>Consider that multiplayer games need to have elements that are both fun to play as and fun to play against
I will reiterate: "Fun to play against" is NOT a consideration. Everyone can find literally anything unfun to play against. Is counterplay a consideration? Of course. We can give things counterplay. But we can't make something fun to play against because someone will inevitably get pissed off. For every mechanic in TF2, you can find someone who finds it "not fun to play against". There's no point trying.

>Other classes deal 200 damage more quickly than he does
It doesn't need to be 200; it needs to be 125 in Scout's case, and in Soldier's/Demo's case the Pyro is already pretty good against those classes at an equal skill level, as long as Soldier is running Gunboats.
>(unless you want the flamethrower to have range like a lightning gun from quake)
Not quite that far, but significantly further than it is now. I'm talking ~50%+ range. Up to about 500HU, which is enough to reach from long end to long end of Granary middle (as opposed to the current range which barely reaches from short end to short end).
>Even taking mobility and kiting out of the equation (which certain small 1v1 maps do) the pyro would still be lackluster
Pyro actually is, only just, full-time viable right now on smaller maps such as Gullywash and Product for any 6s player who's game to try. Just ask Grape, Stark and Ma3la, who've won games in Invite playing as Pyro on those maps. It's larger maps in which he falls down, because he can't close the gap so he can attack. Gapclosing will give him the strength he needs to compete in real games.

>>389940704
>because the cunt shot his instakill weapon at the ground 5 feet away from me
Well for a start, try not being so close to the second slowest walking class in TF2? Also try achieving proficiency.
>Every other class has to come to a sentry attack range to destroy it
Utter fucking bullshit, the pistol, the shotgun, the stickybomb launcher, the revolver (when spy has sapper), the Sniper Rifle, even the fucking syringe gun outrange sentries' 1100HU range. and it doesn't matter anyway because most sentries are placed around some kind of corner and you'll be corner creeping them, not sniping them from afar
>I did. Its actually much more balanced then stock
Stock is balanced and DH is slightly weaker than stock but good enough to call balanced.
>Being the most broken class and constantly raking in points inflates your ego making you think you are actually skilled
Nigger for fuck's sake I DON'T MAIN SOLDIER. I main Medic. And I think Medic should be nerfed and the other 4 weak classes should be buffed/reworked to the level of Soldier.

The point is that Soldier is balanced equal to the other cookie cutter classes right now. Fucking that up by nerfing him would be a huge waste of time. No "small adjustments" are needed, he IS the class the game is balanced around.

>>389927374
Call me back when the Bison gets buffed.

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>>389942821
>bison buff never
>pomson overhaul to make it an effective mid range laser slug shooter never
>manmelter buff never
>phlog overhaul never

To love laser guns is to suffer

>>389942821
I'm going to miss you

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>>389942821
They said in the balance changes blogpost that there are some balance changes they have made but haven't submitted to the public for feedback, because they feel they already know the answer.

>>389940203
>10 spies
>1 soldier-med combo
>Everyone has to run around shooting at C&D spies sprawled across the frontline while the combo picks off each one with 1-2 rockets from mid-range
epic design dude

>>389941914
6v6 comp is cancer and should never be taken seriously

>>389943267
Just make it not stack, problem solved

>>389943463
t. shitty conga player

>>389941914
>The risk is ammo, the skill index is similar to FaN
A FaN that can be used every .8 seconds? Not skill indexed much at all compared to rocket jumping. Just point and click, no timing, no crouching, no syncs, no need to chain wall jumps or pogos.

>Everyone can cap flags more effectively than a soldier with a rocket jumper
You know what I mean. The airblast jump would have mobility without taking damage in the same vein as a jumper which could cause problems in some game modes.

>>It takes .5 seconds to swap weapons.
Point being that the pyro cannot airblast jump, fire a secondary, and then airblast jump again without losing any momentum.

> "Fun to play against" is NOT a consideration
You're kidding, right? This is the core of multiplayer game design, finding stuff that is both fun to play with and play against. One sided mechanics are a prime example of bad design, such as the sandman's stun. No one wants stuns like that in the game because it's a slap in the face to play against it.

>Up to about 500HU, which is enough to reach from long end to long end of Granary middle
I guess that'd be pretty significant area denial, and it could obscure vision a lot.

>>389943529
tf2 was not designed for 6v6. It's casual as fuck and should remain that way

>>389943510
Nobody said anything about stacking my man, if they're all standing around at a certain range you're in the 75% zone no matter where you go.
-25% is already fucking retarded anyway.

>>389943463
>>389943596
This. Even at launch TF2 was casual fucking around. I genuinely want these fucking compfags to leave. Consider CounterStrike or Quake 3 instead.

SAY SOMETHING, I'M GIVING UP ON YOU

>>389940426
>wallhack
fucking kill yourself

>>389943812
Valve's mistake for hiding a mechanically deeper game in there, then.

>comunity servers are almost ded
>matchmaking is shit
Thanks valve

>>389943812
The "wow we added matchmaking and comp" was the worst update, tf2 is fucking around and killing snipers on 2fort using demo, not 6v6 comp bullshit

>>389943989
>can't have both
xD

>>389944143
Obviously not after how they handled the comp update.

The update will come out annyyyy week now.

See? The update!

No wait, that's a news post.

>>389944230
Thats on valve not 6v6. The implemented it terribly despite having csgo and dota to copypaste, not to mention 8 years of feedback from 6v6 players. The update was garbage and killed the game for me as someone who played pubs and 6s in leagues.

>>389944282
So we still got problem.

>>389943574
Correction: The risk is ammo and the fact that you're playing Pyro with short range. Happy now? We've already gone over that same point twice.
>Not skill indexed much at all compared to rocket jumping
>"If it's not of equal or superior skill to rocket jumping it can't be a mechanic"
Come on, anon. Stop making up reasons to dislike the idea.
>The airblast jump would have mobility without taking damage in the same vein as a jumper which could cause problems in some game modes
What problems and which modes, exactly?
>Point being that the pyro cannot airblast jump, fire a secondary, and then airblast jump again without losing any momentum
Well you can actually, you do 3-4 airblast jumps to get into the air and you've got enough momentum to fire attacks while airborne. But anyway, it's not designed for "bombing". It's designed as a gapcloser to get into the new longer range of the Flamethrower.
>This is the core of multiplayer game design, finding stuff that is both fun to play with and play against
No anon, and I've already explained why. There is no "fun to play against weapon". It simply doesn't exist. Everyone gets pissed off by something.
>such as the sandman's stun
The problem with the Sandman's stun is counterplay. And Pyro having an airblast jump is nothing on the level of Sandman, don't be ridiculous anon.
>and it could obscure vision a lot
According to the developer commentary, that was one of their original aims with Flamethrower-- make it visually noisy to obscure vision and thus help Pyro take "cover" from Snipers and be harder to locate behind the screen of fire. Of course, they failed, by making it too tiny.

>>389943596
>>389943812
Too bad faggots, Valve is changing the game so that 6v6 can work. Get on board or get left behind.

You will still be able to play your pub games and throw your sandviches as your friendly hoovy xD, get over it.

>>389943615
>if they're all standing around at a certain range you're in the 75% zone no matter where you go
Who cares? Anon you're talking about the enemy sacrificing TEN players in order to make some members of your team 75% weaker, for the duration of a dead ringer cloak time.

If their 2 actual players who they have can't aim, or die instantly because they're the focus of attacks from 12 enemy players all by themselves, the entire exercise of having 10 Spies is going to backfire on them enormously.

It's not going to be overpowered.

>>389944812
Yes, this will bring them back. This will make comp great again.

>>389941914
>I will reiterate: "Fun to play against" is NOT a consideration.
how to make your post worthless in 3 seconds

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>>389943596
>>389943812

why do idiots like these even care if comp exists? you don't have to play it. there will always be a casual mode and community servers.

>>389944812
comp is a last ditch effort to get the player count to grow. It's not going to happen

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>>389944990
You can't fucking read it seems.
Counterplay- whether the enemy has a way to fight back- is a consideration.
Whether the enemy enjoys fighting back is not a consideration because that's subjective and varies heavily from person to person.

Name literally any mechanic in TF2 and you can find a person who says it's "not fun to play against". That's why it's not a consideration.

The only things that matter are whether a mechanic has counterplay, and whether it's fun to play as. If you disagree, your opinion is the one that's worthless, because you lack a shred of practicality or common sense.

>>389944930
>Dead Ringer cloak time
You said nothing about cloak drain.
>you're talking about the enemy sacrificing TEN players in order to make some members of your team 75% weaker
Yeah and you only need 1 fucking rocket to kill them wowie those 10 spy players that don't do anything to begin with can actually be useful now.
Your idea of a massive defense debuff that can be handed out for fucking free and signposted by some stupid little text (that will break all custom HUDs) nobody is going to take the time to look at instead of the fucking heavy mowing them down is retarded and you should feel bad.

>>389945103
The comp update killed the server browser and royally assfucked a lot of community servers.

>>389945127
100,000 people play TF2 competitively (6s, HL, 4s or ultiduo) on a bi-weekly basis.

>>389940203
>84 damage from a rocket at maximum fall-off
You're fucked in the head

Quickplay being ripped meant that the fun got ripped

There was nothing better than chilling back with a friend, joining a random valve server and having a blast doing whatever in it. We'd do fun shit like get our entire team to go engi with names like Turtle Engi #4. Fucking MyM killed whatever fun there was left in the game

>>389945127

no its not, comp is valve finally recognizing the community efforts to make a great game something more, and helping them realize it slowly but surely. you have no idea what your'e talking about

>>389945220

150 in casual max ranked in competitive and i play community servers daily... it all seems perfectly functional to someone who doesn't just moan on /v/ you can calm down.

>9v9 highlander will never be the standard comp format

what are we even waiting on? the night's been so many times already, there's no more nights for TF2 at this point, OP

>>389945220
That's not because of comp retard it's because of valve's implementation of the entire system. Literally nobody liked meet your match.

>>389945503
That's what I'm getting at, valve fucked up so hard with the update that it's caused a massive upset with community servers and the browser itself because they tried to crowbar in the 6v6 shit and that party system.

>>389945194
>You said nothing about cloak drain
Not my fault you can't take variables into account.
Why are you assuming that my idea suddenly also includes Dead Ringer Spies having permanent invisibility and invulnerability??
When their DR runs out, either all 10 Spies have to run away and wait for their regen (thus leaving their team down TEN PLAYERS) or you fucking kill them with ease because they're not invisible, not attacking (they're holding a sapper) and have shit HP.
>Yeah and you only need 1 fucking rocket to kill them
To kill 1 player out of the 12 players on the enemy team.
I don't think you understand how mathematics works. Or maybe the concept of both teams having an equal number of players skipped your mind.

Team A: Soldier, Medic, 10 Spies.
Team B: 12 players of different classes.
That Soldier-Medic team is facing 12 enemies completely alone. They need only 1 shot to kill 1/12 players. All 12 players only need 1 shot, all fired at the same time, to kill the Soldier and Medic.
What does that leave you with? 10 Spies who aren't worth shit.
>that can be handed out for fucking free
It's not free dumbfuck, you have to get into close range of people who want to kill you, as a class who dies easily, and alerting them to your presence, while not being able to attack them yourself.
>nobody is going to take the time to look at
People don't look at their health now?????
>(that will break all custom HUDs)
Oh come on, Valve has no problem doing that on their own. What a ridiculously retarded complaint. We don't balance the game around third-party HUDs.

>>389945305
>>84 damage from a rocket at maximum fall-off
In exchange for losing 10 players.
You're incapable of object permanence.

>>389945103
The problem is that now valve is nerfing/buffing weapons based on 6v6

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>>389945636
>Why are you assuming that my idea suddenly also includes Dead Ringer Spies having permanent invisibility and invulnerability??
I'm not, what the fuck are you on about? I specifically mentioned C&D spies because it makes your dopey idea even worse. Do you not understand item synergy? Why the fuck would you carry out that plan with fucking dead ringers?
>To kill 1 player out of the 12 players on the enemy team.
Not if they're anywhere near each other. Go and look up rocket launcher damage calculations like a good little boy, I'll wait
>YEAH BUT IF YOU'RE USING DIRECT HIT IT SUCKS xD

You have no understanding of the practical application of your stupid idea and I thank fuck that it won't ever be implemented. I've never seen anybody defend a shit idea so vehemently. Don't even respond.

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>>389926584
>update on a monday

>>389945603
>because they tried to crowbar in the 6v6 shit
Casual and "that party system" has literally nothing to do with 6v6. Stop talking about things you know nothing about.
6v6 players did not ask for Casual. Everyone was happy with Valve pubs except streamers and retards complaining about autobalance.

>>389945725
Don't use words you don't understand, sweetheart.

>>389945907
>stop talking about things you know nothing about
>Meet your match hits
>shit gets all fucked up

Makes sense to me.

>>389937132
Dispenser backpack, Engi's secondary

Positives
>Can pick up an already built dispenser with it
>Unlike normal building pickup, you can still use your wrench and primary when dispenser is on your back
>Dispenser works normally while you're moving around with it

Negatives
>You're down to heavy's speed while carying that shit
>Picked up dispensers don't generate or distribute metal

>>389945858
>I specifically mentioned C&D spies because it makes your dopey idea even worse
And then you promptly forgot that C&D has a cloak meter LMAO
Try some reading comprehension for once. Try actually R E A D I N G the post you're replying to.
If you sit still with Cloak and Dagger you will be detected within literal seconds. Because, like I said, it tells you in the HUD how close the Spy is. If the Spy is sitting there not moving because that's what C&D lends itself to, it's not going to be at all difficult to find and kill him.
>Not if they're anywhere near each other
Yeah sorry I forgot that all 12 players on a team walk towards the enemy in a tight cluster. LMAO
>Don't even respond
Your way of saving face after you jump in vehemently with poorly thought-through criticism that you can't back up with actual arguments. Of course you don't want me to respond, because I'm blowing every argument you have the fuck out.

give pyro the lightning gun
give sniper the railgun
give demoman the grenade launcher (detonates on touch)
give medic the plasma gun
give scout the bfg

>>389945829

making casual less broken as well, while still retaining the focus on vanilla fundamentals.

again i don't see a problem

>>389945925
>sweetieposting
You are incapable of remembering that the enemy team has 12 players.

>>389946170
give demo a fucking glock!!!! xD tftv memes :DD
see look guys we're so sarcastic and badass :D

Dead ringer a shit remove it. I much prefer stock + that cloak duration revolver i.e. the stay invisible at max speed forever if you know where the ammo pickups are combo.

>>389945974
There is no logical progression in your statement.
>X exists
>Y happens
>Z is made worse because of Y
>therefore Z's state is the fault of X
is what you're saying right now

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>>389946170
I like the way you think

>>389946384
My train of logic is fucked, I'm just annoyed about that update fucking up the server browser and hampering the ability to drop in and out of games easier.
I also prefer the old auto balanced compared to this new system of tempting the players XP, level ups offer nothing so very rarely will you see people in pubs balance out teams.

>>389946771
>I'm just annoyed about that update fucking up the server browser and hampering the ability to drop in and out of games easier.
>I also prefer the old auto balanced compared to this new system of tempting the players XP, level ups offer nothing so very rarely will you see people in pubs balance out teams.
Well, I do agree with those things entirely.

>>389946854
well then I think there's been a misunderstanding. I love TF2 and I just miss the ease of being able to hop into servers, it just doesn't feel like it's that easy anymore.
Plus I'm still mad as hell about some weapons getting nerfed.

>>389936530
Jesus fucking Christ. I'm not him, but you're getting annoying

>>389946954
Don't reply to niggers who got BTFO over three hours ago

>>389947085
I'm not BTFO dickwipe, because you haven't reached the goalposts. Don't move them closer to yourself and then claim you kicked a goal.

>>389946934
All cool.

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>>389947183
At least we got that settled, I'm fond of settling things in a civil manner.
But you're still ugleh
YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

But I'm not even the guy you originally replied too just an anon who got a chuckle out of your asspain over some dude complaining about a 10 year old game. Stay mad though.

Also practice what i preach, no more hand out (You)'s

Thanks for the (You)

new PDA when?

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>>389935608
In the darkness
There's so much I want to do

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>>389948869
hopefully

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>>389948869
you're going to use a dispenser and a teleporter for the rest of your god damn life

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>>389936459
>bought duke nukem forever
>using windows 8 or 10
>quit tf2

Gosh your life seems to be full of poor choices.

>>389952015
8.1 with classic shell is a straight upgrade from 7, memeboy.

>>389952291
>8.1 with classic shell
not the person you replied to, but the screenshot he's replying to certainly doesn't look like 8.1 with classic shell

>>389952291
Not with that boring flat color scheme.

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>>389950815
This is actually a pretty neat idea
What does the furnace do though

>>389952720
I think it's the thing that makes the blocks.

>>389952825
Oh okay neat

>>389952720
it's just a dispenser reskin.
the entire thing is designed to be Medieval Mode friendly, because engineer is pretty useless in that mode. But similarly to Huntsman and Crusader's Crossbow, it would work in normal TF2 as well

>>389933020
so do i
but im in australia so our combined efforts will equally be as useless