Is this the peak of the Final Fantasy series?

Final Fantasy X is.

>>389730802
FF IX is a mess. FF VII is the peak here.

>>389730802
Yes
>>389730860
Lol
>>389731071
Both are great

>>389730860
X is the start of the decline.

8 > 10 > 7 > 9

>>389730802
In gameplay... no, because it's so slow and the fact that ATB runs during animations fucks shit up

In story... no, because disc three turns into an aimless chase followed by a dumb twist

In my personal nostalgia... oh god yes

>>389730802
It's certainly a candidate.

>>389730860
X is not.

>>389730802
no, but it has the best story/characters

>>389730860
X is terrible

>>389730860
true, best gameplay, didnt have to rely on elemental/embodiment of evil villain or lavos rip off, best characters

>>389730802
VI is better

>>389730860
Lel

>>389731071
VII was a mess too, and became even worse once Square Penix started shitting on it with all the horrible spinoffs.

>>389730802
Yes, it is

>>389731207
i agree with this, first half was so good, that direction/camera angles? perfection. Steiner is one of the best characters in the series. Too bad they couldn't hold it together in the end. I dont think they were able to make the ensemble cast feel real either. No real group discussion/dynamic like in X. That shit with Amarant at Ipsen castle was pathetic. So he agrees to follow you around for no reason, then just suddenly goes on a tirade of how he works alone? Ignoring the hours he just spent following your commands? And then hes just randomly hoisted by his own petard so we can get some tired lecture on friendship. Horrible. One of the worst parts of any final fantasy game. So ham fisted.

FFIX is a good solid game but:

Battles are way too frequent.
Battles take forever to load.
Battles have a completely unskippable cinematic intro that makes you wait before you take control.
Battles are hideously slow, even with max battle and text speed. Inexplicably even the characters preparing to attack take forever to do so.
Trance is completely worthless. Ito was stupid for breaking the limit break mechanic like this.
The ability system in this game is awful. You have to wear substandard equipment for ages in order to get useful abilities. And some are strongly recommended. Combine this with very low AP per battle (and the aforementioned battle issues) and you have a problem.
The cast is unevenly cared for. Quina, Amarant, and Freya get almost nothing. Contast that with VII where even the optional characters got substantial amounts of attention. Freya only has ~100 lines from the Cleyra event to the end of the game. What a promising character and side-plot utterly neglected. Amarant was one of the most contrive additions to your team I've ever seen in a JRPG.
The card game is worthless, which makes all those card rewards you get worthless as well. The game actually fails to communicate exactly how to play the damn game.
Speaking of mini-games all of them suck ass and apart from Chocobo's hot and cold don't even give any useful rewards to you from playing them. Seriously few Ethers or Phoenix Downs would be nice.
The plot is one of the weakest parts of the game and goes full retard when Terrans become a major plotpoint at Oeilvert.
SUDDENLY NECRON. Yea, I know him being a death incarnate, kinda fitting the game theme and possibly being a homage to Cloud of Darkness and/or Zemus. That still doesn't make him good or interesting final boss.

That said none of those flaws kept me from enjoying it but in the end I see FFIX as a good but ultimately failed attempt to merge the best aspects of older and modern FFs together.

>>389730802
It's one of the official meme games of /v/ so no it's not. It's also made for furfags and has one of if not the worst final bosses in not only an FF title but of an RPG period.

Tried it out for the first time, couldn't get past the first 20 minutes
>Backgrounds that didn't age well
>Story and battles (i played only the tutorial one) didn't have a hook to them
>Then you are switched to a manlet with a fake ticket
>They proceed to teach you a card game

Honestly if backgrounds were reworked and they didn't go for gwent from the get-go I would have probably given it a chance. I know that I'm an "ADHD shitter" but I simply couldn't find a reason to stick to it, there was nothing appealing enough that told me to continue

>>389730802
The peak was VI but IX is very close.

>>389732150
necron isnt justified. They can rationalize him and give him as much lore as they want, he still comes out of left field because they didnt have confidence in their ending which, too be fair, wasnt that strong anyway

>>389730802
>peak of a series where each game is different

Not really how it works.

>>389732150
>Trance is completely worthless. Ito was stupid for breaking the limit break mechanic like this.

I really wonder if they simply ran out of ideas and phoned it in with Trance. I mean, it sure as fuck ain't Limit Breaks.

>>389732748
The ending was fairly good. You go to the planet's crystal and fight to defend it.

>>389732916
Bruh you save your half monkey clone brother from an evil plant what game did you play?

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>>389730802
When you realize this was supposed to be titled Gaiden instead of IX and was made to pay homage to older titles, you can notice how the main series spiraled down into experimental shit right after VII.

>>389732150
>Freya only has ~100 lines from the Cleyra event to the end of the game.
I woke up 3 minutes ago and now you ruined my Saturday already.

>>389731176
Swap 9 and 7 and this is how I rate them.

>>389732916
The ending fight with kuja was fine but everything after was weak, i dont think the developers had enough confidence in the ending so they through in some absolute evil

>>389732150
The card game gets perfectly explained in the dali weapons shop on disc 4 which i will agree is late
Now actually being able to read card stats on a crt around 2000 can be difficult
Most of the repeatable minigames have some kind of reward i know jump rope hippaul racing and the nero brothers game does

>>389733121
FF almost always has some metaphysical shit thrown in at the end. No one complained about the essentially QTE fight that happens with sephiroth in your head at the end of ff7.

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Whether or not you personally like it, 12 is the last time Final Fantasy made forward progress in any meaningful sense.

>>389730860
This is the most correctest opinion

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>>389732150
I can never understand why it's acceptable to learn abilities from items in Tactics but it's always listed as a major downside in IX?

>>389733204
I dunno about that. 13 had a pretty good combat system.

>>389733257
this and it improved each sequel. LR's system is fantastic.

>>389732719
>>389731667
6 does a lot right but I think VII was an overall better video game. The materia system is a huge upgrade to espers, the pacing and escalation of the story is incredibly strong and Cloud's arc is one of the most interesting and competently handled in the franchise. If FFVII existed without any of the fucking expanded universe shit which people conflate with the original game it would be appreciated a lot more.

>>389732861
Trance was a knee jerk to how exploitable limit break spamming was
Ive played through 9 probably 15 times by now and I almost always have atleast 1 character trance during a boss
But i know where all the treasures and shit are like the back of my hand so I dont waste time looking around that could push your trance meter too far but most bosses 2-3 shot any given character unless you itemize against them with resist or absorb gear before hand ao the gauge filla pretty rapid the longer you stay in fights
Which can be awhile if you have steal autism like i do

>>389732640
This is just incomprehensible to me. Those environments are gorgeous, and that sequence is loaded with mini rewards and fun side content. The hook is you're kidnapping a princess for larks and profit. And assembling a classic RPG party step by step before breaking it apart and making do with weird compromises. Shit, discs one and two really might be the series peak.

>>389733257
You are obligated to like 13's combat because literally the entire game is just a treadmill from battle to battle with zero exploration and extremely minimal world interaction in between. There's almost nothing to the game at all besides combat and graphics, and Gran Pulse doesn't even remotely begin to make up for that.

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>>389732150
>Freya only has ~100 lines from the Cleyra event to the end of the game.

what a waste

>>389733323
>>389733257
We're trying to have a nice thread here.

>>389733407
not that guy but ff9 has the most excruciatingly slow start of any FF

its somehow more painful than the endless city garbage at the beginning of ff7, even though it doesn't take you as long to get to the overworld

the pre-drawn low-res .jpg backgrounds was a dark period for FF, and its probably the main reason why 7-9 get shit on so much, you just want to play FF but instead you have to sit through the longest and ugliest cutscene in all of gaming

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>>389733323
You're just shuffling between 3 ATB bars while timing guard like in Mario RPG.
Progression is stumped and limited to fetch quests even though every area is filled with encounters every 3 steps that only waste your time.
Why do people get wet over LR combat? Little more player input than XIII and XIII-2 and suddenly it's good? Don't make me laugh.

>>389733447
If you're that threatened by people not following the circlejerk I'm not sure this is the right website for you.

>>389733419
That's fine. Sometimes that's all I want. FF1 is just combat and exploration and I still enjoy the hell out of it.

>>389733201
maybe. But 6 at least had a consistent big bad who stated out representing elemental chaos and stuck with it to the end. Just cause games like 4 did it doesnt mean its good. 7 had lavos(jenova) come to eat the planet, and then sephiroth goes crazy because of his DNA/ learing of his fucked up origins. X did it best cause they didnt rely on absolute evil. Yu yevon was essentially a hitler like figure that was set up in advance. And the whole religion used to have an oppressed people worship their oppressor/ send out human sacrifices as a trick to make yu yevon stronger every time was pretty interesting. Only to have have a piece of the summoned city come and defeat him using his own system of sustaining power against him. Thats a good ending. Necron was a non statement.

>>389730802
It had the best battle theme
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7sG3l5ryOk

>>389732748

Very few of these are actual complaints. The first four about battles alone are essentially the same complaint.

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>>389733558
Holy shit that game just looks shit.

>>389733527
i dunno i thought ff7 went downhill after midgar

>>389732640
The part with vivi after the first fight has a handful if optional scenes and treasures along with the jump rope minigame , it sets up a really comfy and pleasant feeling
Learning about the carda is optional just like doing jumprope, gathering all the gil carda and equipment hidden about, the inn scene with the pissed off people, and hippauls hidden treasure. You can go straight to the booth and then down the alley ans over the rooftops in like 2 minutes, all the rest is to give you a feel for the world and character
Also holy shit the backgrounds are 10/10 how many marijuanas did you inject

>>389732150
>The cast is unevenly cared for. Quina, Amarant, and Freya get almost nothing.

Why are these characters even in the game? They basically have nothing to do. If you took them out, would the game be better or worse?

>>389733670
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUCeXApQxNw

>>389733389
>knee jerk to how exploitable limit break spamming was

Definitely, and fewer fancy animations you watch 50 times is a good thing. I think the problem is that some characters have Trances that are kind of feeble, so it's more annoying when an actually important one like Dyne triggers at the wrong time

>>389733732
freya couldve just been an interesting npc, instead they gave her too much play time without the proper attention

>>389733664
I thought the ending of 10 was garbage. The unlosable last fight was worse than necron in every way. Jecht was good though.

>>389730802
its the only one i like so yes

>>389733732
They're there to give you gameplay options or if you just hate one of the 'Main' party. It's like complaining about Umaro. The game is better because they mix up your party during discs 2/3 and give you freedom of choice at the end. If you don't like them, ignore them

>>389733587
>That's fine
Okay but the argument was that XII was the last game to move the series forward.

>>389733558
So suddenly about it though, 13 had good combat.

>>389733874
yu yevon fight was ceremonial just like head cannon sephiroth was, it wasnt great but at least it made sense in the context of their plan.

>>389732150
>>389732861
>>389733389
>>389733757

What the hell was Trance anyway? The characters changed into weird ass colors and costumes for no reason. Did they ever explain why that happens?

>>389733874
The last dungeon is also terrible and just the same idea as the FF9 one with worse execution. Hype breaking in, then a total waste of time.

>>389733757
Oh definately
Shit quinas trance is pretty much useless as fuck beyond the stat boost and status effect heal since the "special" effect is just being abld to eat things at 50% onstead of 25%

>>389733587
I don't think calling out 13 for being a horrendous mess equates 'not following the circlejerk.' 13 has the most vapid and interchangeable cast in the FF universe, the battle system is braindead and immensely simplified to the point of tedium, the story is beyond weak (which given the amount of extra reading you have to do just to begin to follow it, let alone understand it is utterly inexcusable) and full of gaping asspulls and conveniences, cyrstarium is completely pointless, Vanille's weapon is offensively stupid and the OST is easily the weakest in the history of the franchise. That last one is my own opinion, the rest are fairly objective.

>>389733874
The necron fight wasnt bad in terms of gameplay, it was just nonsense that made the story like weak. Yu yevon was a cutscene fight after the real final challenge.

>>389733957
I think innovating on combat is a step forward personally. In what way do you think 12 moved the series forward? I suppose FF hadn't done a political plot in a while.

>>389734006
A strong surge of emotion
Its why it happens when the black waltz btfo out of the regular black mages and shit talks vivi on the cargo ship and when steiner thinka him and beatrix might die defending alexandra from mistodons regardless of where the bar is at before then
Steiner explains it in the first fight against the plant cage in evil forest

>>389734079
>Yu yevon was a cutscene fight after the real final challenge.

Ah yes, the challenge of pressing attack three times.

>>389734006
Trance is triggered by a surge of emotions. There's no actual explanation for how or why that happens, but trance itself is important to Kuja's motivations. There's some subtext in Vivi's ability to achieve trance as well.

>>389734009
the last dungeon wasnt great but the Seymour fight was dope. At least it was short and you probably had some no encounter armor by that point

>>389733969
Yeah, it killed the ending for me way worse than necron did.

>>389734009
I agree actually. I forgot how bad it was.

>>389734079
Then it should have been over quick like the sephiroth one. It killed the pacing and the tension.

>>389734052
The battle system was great. It's almost objectively less simple than most of the series. The characters weren't fantastic but they get more shit than they deserve. The plot and level design was ass though I think 10 gets a pass for nearly equally shitty level design which is weird to me.

>>389733257
>13 had a pretty good combat system.

Gutted X-2 isn't "good"

>>389734009
I liked memoria even if it wasnt as hyped as the silver dragon cutscene and fight beforehand
Better than the fucking crystal tower from 3 atleast and didnt gimp you like edeaa castle did
Had good gear and hard as fuck card battles to

>>389734196
are you trying to say the jecht fight was easy? I mean these aren't very hard games but id say it was at least on par with the rest of the series

>>389734178
>>389734231

So it was basically like turning Super Saiyan?

>>389734310
>It's almost objectively less simple than most of the series.
I am interested in understanding why you think this. You have 0 customisation outside your "role."

>>389734316
It's not gutted x-2. The whole chaining thing was new. Buffs and debuffs and status are not only useful but nearly mandatory. It has tanking as a thing which was cool. ATB refresh was a neat mechanic as well.

People like to call 13 mash X to win, but funnily enough because of the chain system it's one of the few FFs you can't actually do that in. In my playthrough of X-2 I beat the final boss holding down X with two dark knights and an alchemist tossing mega potions.

>>389734343

I don't know anyone who wasn't hitting 70k+ per hit during the jecht fight because they cleared out omega first.
But omega was a "real" fight in the PAL release unlike the US where you can't easily one shot him, can only do it with wakka attack reels from memory

>>389734406
Yes i mean shit zidane and kuja both go ssj4 during trance

>>389734406
Character building is not the same as the battle system in my eyes. The actual execution of optimal play in 13 is more complex than the rest of the series. They even have a rating system to tell you if you were doing well or not.

In terms of character customization I think I preferred it to something like the sphere grid or base ff12 (zodiac was great) because at the end of the game the characters still have distinct roles. I don't like games where every character can do everything.

>>389733407
>>389733726

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8dN3mrfjeY

9 02

I like the designs but resolution sinks the whole experience down for me. I get that the whole thing is very comfy but even inability to quickly skip through dialogue takes me out of the experience. Maybe if i was a little tipsy it would have been cool.

Overall I can see that it can be appreciated, i just don't feel that there is any part of the experience that you "have" to play for, nothing really stands out.

>>389734507
But for everyone to be able to do everything in Final Fantasy 10, you would have to grind levels like crazy

>>389734175
12 had a significantly large world with a fuckton of NPCs that all had dialogue which changed throughout the game to reflect current events, even in areas you had no reason to be in at the time. The gambit system, hunts, and bazaar mechanics were all new, enemies interacting with each other in real time on the map was new, the guest system was interesting as well. The whole package was a big step forward from 10, and while it drew plenty of inspiration from 11, we haven't had a single game since 12 that fits the Final Fantasy mold with as much depth and polish as it delivers.

>>389734457
I didnt find omega ruins until weeks after i beat jecht
Shit the only weapon i had with break damage limit was aurons celestial weapon and i think tidus was still using brotherhood and i was only doing like 8k damage with him and around 15k with auron
Granted this was in 2002 or so before I had internet and i knew better than to try and go find everything before the end because of how much of a cakewalk doing that made ff6-9

>>389734412
>streamlined "classes"
>only control of one character
>8(?) presets of classes for all characters

De/buffs being mandatory isn't a good thing either, since you just go in cycles of com/rav/rav to syn/sab/com(or med), changing to whatever sen setup your preference is when the the fight actually requires it, going through the motions every fight. Stagger could be seen as an extension of the chain system in X-2, but I think stagger was hot garbage and tedium incarnate anyway.

X-2 isn't without it's problems, catnip being the most obvious one, but it has a way better mechanical base that could've been expanded upon in 31.

>>389730802
Man, people talk about Tidus looking like Meg Ryan, Zidane looks just as much like her as Tidus does.

>>389734590
Thats a pc port problem
Square lost the original assets so they just stretched the ps1 ones
Still looks decsnt imo though Ive played ff9 twice since it got released on pc
You could also breeze through the opening by turning on 4x speed they added in the pc version by the way

IX is the best FF game and anyone who says differently doesn't know what they are fucking talking about.

>>389730802

God I forgot how awful the US ps1 final fantasy arts were.

>>389734618
Ok, but even if you didn't you're just going to take the three characters with good overdrives and then quick hit your way to victory.

>>389734626
The guest system was as old as FF3 and most of the other stuff you describe existed in older games as well. I agree 12 is a fantastic game I just don't know if it pioneered as much as you think it did.

>>389734671
I enjoy the combat in both games honestly, but I think it's much harder to execute a good fight in 13. The fact that you heal after battles and the retry option meant they could crank the difficulty on random fights as well. I appreciate when fights aim to kill me instead of whittling down my mp. All of the difficulty in x-2 was in optional content.

>>389734626
I always hear people complaining about the Gambits in Final Fantasy 12, but I really liked it

>>389734457
I have no idea who you're talking to but im pretty sure 99% of the people who played this game didn't have 'break damage limit' by the time they reached jecht. I can see why you would find him easy if you grinded out the levels to beat the super boss at the end of the hidden optional dungeon before you even fought the final boss. But if you're suggesting that everyone who played the game did this, or that this is the intended route for the game, then thats ridiculous. You cant claim that the final boss is easy or poorly balanced if you grinded enough to beat the super boss before you even fought him. You're literally doing the post game first.

>>389734836
yeah i think they worked for what the game was

>>389734857

No other final boss can be killed that easily after doing optional content that easily in my experience. Safer Sephiroth with kotr maybe, but he still scales with your level from memory. Maybe 8 using hero souls/dog moon limit break.

The only mainline I haven't beaten are 3 and 15

I always hear people talk about which is the best Final Fantasy, but which game is considered the worst Final Fantasy ?

>>389730802
Yes. Anyone who says otherwise is wrong.

>>389735026
FF4

>>389735026
It's subjective but 2 for me. I love the SaGa series so I don't hate the concept, but the execution was poor. The pacing is also rough.

>>389730802
Still pissed to this date in regards to a few setpiece battles such as the Black Waltz. Man they had such great presentation, but then it falls flat 'cause they suck ass and die quick. Black Waltz 3 has such a badass scene at the cargo ship and he was smoked so quickly. I always had a thought he would become a rival character for Vivi or a secret boss. Is there any reference left in the game from them after the first disc?

Also freya was a piss poor attempt at shoe horning drama and it stalled there. Clerya and Burmecia were GOAT dungeons.

I love Square's boldness to do what they want with Final Fantasy. All they'd have to do is churn out FF games that are "like FF7, but with FF9 visuals" until the end of time and people would eat that shit up and they'd have a steady flow of income.

However, Square has chosen to experiment with FF games and do wild and new things with them. This, arguably, has been to their detriment, but I applaud them for not being driven by money. They care to give us something unique.

>>389735026

8. It's also the most delusional fanbase to boot.

>>389730860
10 had shit everything apart from graphics

i really enjoyed crisis core... FFT was probably the best final fantasy though

>>389734987
Neo exdeath can be dualwield rapid fired to death ezpz
Kefka can be dual valiant knife+ offering for like 16 hits with locke for stupid damage
Sephiroth can be kotr mimed
Edea can be spammed with limita via aura or just attacked down if you kept your levels low and refined high level magic
Necron cant really be cheesed because ff9 keeps its power levels fairly in line
Quina steiner zidane ans dagger all have ways to get guarantees 9999 damage each hit through grinding though and as someone who just did an excalibur 2 run theres a noticable difficulty gap from getting all the extra chocobo treasures, stellazio rewards, and sythensized armora/ add ons and just using whatever you grab along the way

>>389735026
Anyone who says anything but FFIV doesn't know shit about the series.

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>getting into a battle in 9
I never finished it, too slow.

>>389734987
fine but if you do 100% of all optional content in ff7/8 you also have a zero effort final boss. The fact of the matter is they can't balance one boss to be a challenge for the average joe who just races through the game to the final boss, and for the guy who knows every single trick in the game cause its they're 9th playthrough. If you wanna have a fun challenge on the final boss in any final fantasy you either have to play blind on your first time or choose to not get all the best weapons and abilities. Thats just the nature of the series.

>>389735221
cecil was better when he was a dark knight, the game went downhill when he became a paladin

>>389735026
A toss up between 2 8 and 13
I think they are all ok excepg for 13 which id call quite mediocre
Different strokes for different folks

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The peak of the series was 6.

>>389735293
>VI was the peak
>even though VII came directly after it and was the better game overall

>>389735221
>>389735117
Ive played every main title multiple times and most spin offs and side games more than once also and 4 is in my top 3 alongside 5 and 9
All of them have actual equipment systems and a setting I prefer. 4 and 9 also have set classes which I like over everyone becoming amalgations of everything even if the job system is fun to play with

>>389735458
>V
Opinion disregarded.

>>389735569
>hating on 5
Supremely shit taste

>>389735632
Other than the job system the entire game was ass. Worse than 13 in many ways.

>>389735259

I liked the Dissidia concept that Cecil can change between Dark Knight and Paladin at will. They should have done that for 4 and show that being dark or light does not necessarily mean that you are evil or good. It's dumb that they paint Cecil as some hero. It's not gonna change the fact that he murdered a bunch of Mages and Summoners on orders and started his journey because he felt bad and even then it was only because Kain told him to.

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>>389735384

I don't mind that opinion. 7 was great too. I only prefer 6 because I like the bigger range of characters.

>>389735885
they should have just kept him pragmatic and real instead of LE HERO imo... his whole transformation was so retarded

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>>389730802
Its like this

>>389736149
A little mistake VII a bit lower than X

>>389736149
X below 1 and probably XIII too.

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>>389735885
>>389736041

It's supposed to be kids anime level plot, Cecil being a pragmatic warrior would've been too good.

One thing I liked about FF4 was Rydia AKA Ultimate Gohan. She really should've been in some of the crossover games.

>>389734671
t. casual shitter

X-2 has nothing on this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5kH1ID9qEI

>>389733249
Different combat system, different rate of battles, different balance. Also you don't need to spend points to activate the skills you learn.

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>>389730802
i loved ff13-2. lightning is the best waifu

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>>389736149
I disagree

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>>389736303

That looks super boring. If you discount the fancy cinematic fighting, there's not much decision making going on, yet it's literally MapleStory level of exaggerated damage numbers. It looks more like the characters are doing more of the gameplay than the players themselves.

I don't particularly like X-2, but I'd rather play that than XIII.

>>389730802
Yeah I would say so, if anything this it was X that changed everything and not for the better.

>>389733249
You must be mistaken the original Tactics with Tactics Advance for the GBA. What you talking about iS Tactics Advance and it is really a shitty game. The original Tactics use Job Points to get skills and it doesnt rely on weapon.

>>389730860
People always judge X because the characters (aside from Auron) are fucking terrible and the writing of the story is a mess, but as a game it's honestly the best in my opinion, it fucking perfected the battle system
I also unironically like the sphere grid, I just thinks it's neat

>>389735147
Problem is they refuse to understand what didn't work or acknowledge what was a failure.
With 13 the director refused to say that 13 didn't work instead just said western players are different that japanese players. Though he is correct in a way he is making a video game for a world wide audience, not just for japanese.

>>389732150
>limit breaks abused in prior game all the fucking time and leveling is meaningless
>make next game with half worthless trance system
Trance is still a better limit break system then what FF8 did.
>lol low health every battle spam quistis limit break to get out of every bullshit fight spam lionheart to destroy every boss
As for battles taking to long it's whatever, FF8 had the same issue in half it's random encounters.
>to little AP complain about equipment
>lol he didn't know about friendly farming or early game burmecia
Truth is 9 wasn't perfect, but a lot of the complaints comparatively 8 was garbage on acid. 9 was the last love letter to final fantasy, before they became squareEnix

>>389730802
Are they gonna port it to the PS4 or what? I need the platinum trophy ffs

>>389736914
Is the sphere grid universally hated? I think it's a cool system.

>>389736914
The characters, story, and world of X are all great. The only real "problem" is that Sin is more of a nuisance than a proper big bad.

>>389736719
I like it because if you know what you're doing you breeze through and if you don't every fight takes forever.

If I gave someone in this topic that same setup they would likely take 10+ minutes to finish that fight.

Trance is a piece of trash and made the entire trance form shtick going on for Zidane completely worthless.

>>389736914
Good enough concept on the battle system and sphere grid but the execution was ass imo

>>389732748
Woah tiger, that's not true that ending was wonderful.

>>389737089
It was painfully easy to fuck up early on and recover late game.

>>389736914
>>389737089
sphere grid is fine imo even though its effectively 4's system with a different skin until you start hopping paths and using keyspheres

It certainly prepared me more for path of exiles talent grid though

>>389732916
It was the universe's crystal at the end. That's why necron was there, you destroy the universe there is nothing, the void.

>>389736719
That video alone has more depth than the entirety of the rest of the franchise.

Cast Bravery-Haste on Sazh and shift to Smart Bomb when Lightning casts her fifth spell; this gives everyone ATB refreshes, but if timed right Lightning will skip her paradigm shift dance and will go straight to casting five more Rav spells, which is quite nifty. Hope that Vanille got Imperil to stick in the first round, cast Fira-Thunder-Thundara, and shift to Tri-disaster when done; if Vanille did not get all three debuffs (Deprotect, Deshell, Imperil) afflicted, restart. Repeat the spells but cast Fira-Thunder early; shift to the second Tri-disaster when Thunder is cast; this will give everyone ATB refreshes. Repeat Fira-Thunder-Thundara and shift to Relentless Assault when done. Use Blitz-Blitz and shift to Aggression during the second Blitz; this will give everyone ATB refreshes. Repeat Blitz-Blitz but cancel the string during the first Blitz but repeat the whole string; this will use three Blitzes in the most time-efficient manner. Hope that Bart dies before he splits.

>I don't particularly like X-2, but I'd rather play that than XIII
Because like I said, you're a casual shitter that gets intimidated by depth. The VII image only supports this. Fucking kek

>>389737143
>characters and story
>great
LIKE HAPPY FESTIVAL FIREWORKS, YAH?

>>389737252
I disagree, with steiner he would do so much damage with just his attack. Vivi helps with his double cast.

>>389737420
>not liking how fucking overtly happy wakka was at dirty sand blasted grease monkeys getting btfo

>>389735026
13 is even worse than 2, which is a noteworthy achievement.

okay but what are other good games like FF7-10?
im casual af

>>389737143
>The characters, story, and world of X
I will only agree to the last 2.
The characters made me hate the game with a passion. All the characters were so 1 dimensional the worst being Yuna.

>>389737459
Yeah it's awesome how this opportunity is wasted because trance gets triggered in a random trash encounter and you can't fill it up during actual boss battle.
Literally the only thing they needed to fix this piece of shit system is to allow to store the trance trigger, also maybe giving Zidane an ability to charge up his own meter via a skill or something. But in current form this is by far the worst and most worthless limit break system to a point the game would be better without it so it won't waste your time on unskippable transformation animations.

>>389730860
nigga

>>389737271
the ending was multifaceted, ill admit, but im not talking about the final forty minutes as much as I am the third act. Pretty much everything from opening to gate to necron was far weaker than the glory that was the first two acts

>>389736914
I think X character are way better than other title. In VII to IX, the only dialogue you get from character are the part where you recruited them, after that they are just mindless puppets who you use for battles. If you take them out of the game, it doesnt affect the story at all. Unlike X, every character are important and related to the main story.

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>>So Soft

>>389737757
X's characters are mostly crap. You could remove wakka kimahri lulu and the story wouldn't really change. In fact Rikku could go too.

Their character arcs aren't very interesting.

>>389737616
Idunno man most people dont evwn know desperation moves are a thing
And i generally get atleast 1 tranced person per boss battle since they do like 30-40% of characters hp per hit

>>389737362
>Cast Bravery-Haste on Sazh and shift to Smart Bomb when Lightning casts her fifth spell; this gives everyone ATB refreshes, but if timed right Lightning will skip her paradigm shift dance and will go straight to casting five more Rav spells, which is quite nifty.
You know that does sound good and all, but the game never requires you to do this.
It gives you the option which only leads to the same goal. Why take the short and simple route when there is an over complicated long one instead.

>>389738114
Because you win the fight faster and get more stars which improve your drop rate. I like that the optimal gameplay is rewarding and requires effort. Optimal gameplay in FF10 involves mashing X on quick hit.

>>389737757
Thats not true
In 7-9 characters all have unique dialouge for current situations when you can form your own groups
When the story sets up your own party for you they generally have more specified lines and setpices happen.

>>389737713
Things were definitely dieing down. You just escaped from a planet being blown up, that's ussually saved for the ending after the final boss.

>>389737757
>In VII to IX, the only dialogue you get from character are the part where you recruited them, after that they are just mindless puppets who you use for battles.
That'd just wrong did you even play the games?

>>389736914
the overall story in ffx makes more sense than any of the convoluted messes that were ffs 7,8,9. Its no, we were all raised in the same orphanage but our tfw no GF's erased our memories. Its no, the local electric company hired a bunch of actors to replace all the people in your home town after they killed everyone. I understand you're not necessarily taking a position on the other final fantasys but even without comparing it to anything else, FFX's main plot made sense if you just thought about it. They give you all the pieces in the main story, you just got put it together.

>>389738225
But drop what? The thing is there isn't much of a reward for finishing it faster. My point is, is that 13 would be a hell of a lot better if the game required you to do that within story battles.

>>389738364
Those games weren't convoluted though. I could make FFX sound just as fucking dumb if I wanted. For example the entire Bevelle sequence was just dumb front to back. And nothing is 7-9 is as "convoluted" as the whole dream zanarkand and dream tidus thing.

>>389738294
Its not like they wrote themselves into a hole and had to do what they did for continuity's sake. It feels like they didnt put as much love into the ending/ they were running out of time and money. You have scenes in the first half taken out of hamlet where you just watch two guards dick around and talk about things that were happening in the world at the time. Scenes like that are what made the game so great and unique. You felt like you were coming in from intermission and the theater was starting up again. The last third just felt uninspired.

>>389738364
When dead people energy make a dream version of the MC and a big monster also made of that same energy, all that makes more sense to you? Common now, you just like that one more. They all make the same amount as sense as the other. Don't be dumb.

>>389738114
Because destroying enemies in XIII entails the breadth of your entire set of options where as in something like other FF games like VII you're spamming singular broken shit like Beta or Quick Hit in X.

>>389738489
If lets you limp through with a medic set up if you want which I think is fine. FF is a casual series so they need to enable casual gamers. Your rare drop rates go up with 5 star wins, and people who want a challenge have the option.

>>389738597
I don't think you can say that they ran out of time, the thing was they were making the connection of memories to life in that last section. Where some would witness certain memories and others wouldnt, and that memory would continue down to memorium. The whole thing felt too long though.

>>389730802
No that was V. Funny plot, good mechanics.

>>389738909
But you aren't limping through it, that's my point, you are still getting through the game with minimal effort.

>>389737992
>Wakka and Lulu
Being your brother-sister figure most of the time throughout thre game
>Wakka and Rikku
Shows the two sides of faith, one is in God, the other is in machines throughout of the game. You didnt know about those Racist Wakka meme didnt you?

>Kimahri,
he's dont talk much of course but at least his gestures show more characters than empty characters in other title.

Remember, that in 7,8.9. Once you get the character in your party, they just follow the main character quietly without anymore depth in dialogue until the end of the game. At least in 6, those sprites still have their own screen time to make the character fleshed out more, while always changr out the main character from Terra to Celes to Locke.

While in 7,8,9 its just Story of Cloud. Squall and Rinoa, Story of Zidane.

>>389738802
But you can't spam x in those games, they require you to use other other abilities until your limit break is ready. 13 you can beat the story with little effort.

VI + VII and IX + X are two equally tall plateaus separated by the deep valley that is VIII.

>>389739021
I think having every battle take 50 hours is punishment enough. Most people on here probably spent well over 10 minutes on that fight. 13 also isn't afraid to just straight up kill you. The hover cycle can one shot you if you don't sentinel and that shows up pretty fucking early.

>>389739097
>Once you get the character in your party, they just follow the main character quietly without anymore depth in dialogue until the end of the game.
In 8 maybe but not in 7 or 9, with 9 you have the opportunity to watch scenes of the other characters get more developement. You didn't play 9 did you?

>>389739097
I'm aware of the character arcs dude. You cut them out and how does the plot change. Vivi gets more development than any character in X hands down.

>>389739021
>take 20x longer to kill boss than a good player
>I-I'm not limping through it!

>>389739121
Kek the optimal play in most FF games is literally spamming singular unbalanced abilities. I know that XIII has too many numbers and mechanics for you to handle but there is no need to bullshit casual-kun

>>389739198
But paradigm shift makes it easy. The thing is it didn't take that long as you think. The only time I needed to debuff some one was the final boss and all I did was toss poison on the guy.

>>389739358
>debuff
>poison
You're proving the point, those mechanics aren't even useful in other FFs but they're integral in XIII. Use your fucking brain, separating well designed combat from trash like FF7's isn't difficult

>>389739358
If most people took over 10 minutes for that fight but it's doable in 45 seconds that's huge.

>people talking about this or that FF being the peak
>when the real one that peaked is the one people want a remake of after all these years and we're getting it

Really makes me think.

>>389739343
Now you are mad over the obviouse flaw that 13 has? Look man you can over complicate it all you want but it was never too hard to play.
>>389739343
>take 20x longer to kill boss than a good player
I never said this
>I-I'm not limping through it!

>>389739431
Using poison on one boss isn't proving your point and also I'm not the same anon you seem to be sperging over. You only need poison on the final boss, that's it, nothing revolutionary about it.

>>389739470
Sounds anti-climactic

>>389739231
I played them all, yes i can see IX have more depth but only in early disc, i remember those vivi's existential crisis, freya's knight and stuff. But everything pretty much ended halfway through the game. I remember i stopped playing when everything just turn back into walk>battle>town pattern

>>389739713
Theb the other half way through the game you got stiener's story and eiko's story and dagger's and Zidane's. There was plenty of developing characters going around aside from amaranth and quiena

>>389738537
>>389738765
zanarkand was obviously not a "dream" though, its just a summon like ifrit was. They made that abundantly clear. People turn themselves into a stone like state so they can be used like materia to call summons. The whole dream criticism isnt anything more than arguing semantics. The reason why your argument doesnt work is that you need to go out of your way to misrepresent the plot of ffx with pejorative language in order to make it sound confusing. FF 7 did not get shinra's motivations straight. They publicly massacre'd Barret's village but they needed to hire actors to hide the fact that sephiroth genocided nibleheim? When there were known survivors who wouldn't be fooled? FF 8 did not foreshadow the memory loss twist nor did it really add anything to the overall messages and themes of the game. It was a twist for the sake of having a twist. All the ff games try to be complex. Complexity itself isnt a fault unless its done without purpose. FFX had consistency at least.

>>389737362
>That video alone has more depth than the entirety of the rest of the franchise.

No it doesn't.

>>389737362
>you're a casual shitter that gets intimidated by depth. The VII image only supports this. Fucking kek

I'd rather be a casual shitter than a pretentious dick spouting nonsense and calling it "depth".

>>389739859
FF8 foreshadowed the memory loss thing from the first 5 minutes of the game man. They framed the massacre of barret's town as retaliation, they said that the malfunction in the plant was caused by terrorists. That's different than having your super soldier massacre and entire town for no reason.

I didn't say FFX didn't make sense, but to call the ps1 games convoluted but give X is a pass is just pure bias. I think you liked X more so you paid more attention.

>>389737992
I agree Lulu and Kimahri weren't my favorite characters but Wakka was one of the best parts of ffx and was crucial to developing the perspective of a people who were kept under the thumb of a religion designed to suppress their growth, but to blinded by devotion to question anything. His arc was full and earned

>>389739859
Shinra's meddling was to have those actors there to keep watch and keep an uprising from happening, with barret they were building a reactor near their town.

>>389740064
He's right that the video has more mechanical depth than the rest of the franchise imo. But in most ffs it's about breaking the stat screen not executing the strategy.

my nostalgia says that yes it was. haven't played it in years, but it was the most enjoyable final fantasy game that i have played.

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>>389735179
Soon.

>>389740064
>N-no it doesn't
>You're pretentious
Nice argument, thanks for proving my point. Dumb casual.

>>389731667
FF7 is fun, maybe it is too easy but the gameplay is fun and fast that in a way feels more dynamic. Materias are one of the best system ever in all FF.

I share your opinions over ripoff, they have deformed the initial game. They tried to turn characters in edgy/emo shit making people think FF7 universal is for teenagers, but FF7 didn't felt like that in my mind when I was younger.

>>389739831
Thats why i hate it, characters arc are at point through points in the game, and there's absolutely nothingness in between. After they reach the end of their arc, the its done nothing more can be say about the characters.

Meanwhile, in X the characters slowly grows on you, constantly,. Remember that scene where auron make joke about yuna's messy hair? These kind of stuffs were always there throughout the game, even that campfire scene on Zanarkand Ruins give me chills. But i understand why, better techonology means more dialogue. I usually dont bring this up but it really ticks me off when people say X have shit character, while it does really improve much from earlier games.

>>389740080

If shinra was publically known for massacring a town for any reason it doesnt make sense for them to try and hide the fact that they were associated with the nibleheim massacre. It doesn't make any sense for them to play politics.

When I say FF8 didnt have foreshowing, I mean the point of a twist is to re-contextualize earlier scenes with new, profound meaning that ads to story. FF8 did not accomplish this. FF8 had a twist for the sake of having a twist. It was tacked on not built through.

FF7 and 8 made no sense because I payed attention, not because I didnt. I'll admit all ff games can be obtuse at a cursory glance, FFX just holds up to scrutiny. Im not even saying its my favorite, it just got its story straight .

>>389740156

if shinra wanted to monitor they could have set up a base. Recreating tifa's childhood bedroom and having actors sit in rebuilt kitchens and stores pretending like it never happened was for a cheap 2spooky4you what is habbening scene for when the party first gets there. It detracts from the story of the game when the motivation of the writers, and the emotions they want to elicit from the audience, takes precedence over the motivation of the characters.

>>389741076
I think from a writing perspective they are weaker than many of the other games, it's fine if you like them though.

>>389741234
FFX had a lot of equally stupid plot points. Yuna going off to marry seymour, we come in and kill a fucking ton of guard, then just surrender out of nowhere. THEN instead of executing us they just toss us into a piss easy dungeon. And we don't send seymour when we kill him this time for some reason. Why did the al bhed blow up Home? Why did Sin use a giant mega laser that accomplished absolutely nothing except looking cool in a cutscene. Why is the inside of sin full of incredibly old buildings if Jecht has only been sin for like 10 years.

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>>389730802
lmao just play dragon quest

>>389742434
NTY. Too happy go lucky for me.

>>389741076
>Thats why i hate it, characters arc are at point through points in the game, and there's absolutely nothingness in between. After they reach the end of their arc, the its done nothing more can be say about the characters.
But that's wrong, they continue with all kinds of shit. You just didn't pay good enough attention.
>>389741076
>Meanwhile, in X the characters slowly grows on you, constantly,. Remember that scene where auron make joke about yuna's messy hair?
No, because Yuna was a bland boring character. You don't seem to understand character development. Learn to deal with other people's opinions because there are a lot of people who think X characters are shit.

>>389741498
I think what your criticism boils down to is dissonance between the impossible actions of battle that occur in game play (characters get shot, eaten, crushed, even die) and the realism of the cut scenes where of course the characters will die if they get shot in the head. Thats a very fair criticism but its a criticism of all final fantasy games and the genre as a whole. But thats a part of the games, (which I would assume we are all fans of in this thread), where we have to suspend our disbelief in order to enjoy the story. My criticism of FF 7 and 8 is that i have to suspend my disbelief even further to the point where I cant even expect an evil organization to act in its own best interest. Another example is that aerith died a bunch of times in the overworld, i just used pheonix downs, but then sephiroth just killed her? If you accept that you have to accept maester kinoc pointing a gun at tidus' head.

Yes, maybe the gameplay of via purifico wasnt difficult enough to suit the gravity of the situation but at the end of the day thats a criticism for the game's director not writer.

Its true that, assuming a sending can be done very quickly and easily, they should've just done it to Seymour immediately and saved themselves a lot of trouble. But I think the writers kept the details about sendings so vague as to avoid contradiction.
It might sound cheap but not knowing why a character performs an action is not the same thing as an action contradiction a pre-established character. One is enigmatic, the other is unrealistic.

Thats a big difference between FFX and FF7/8. FFX didnt try to explain everything. Characters just did things and the writers explained everything you actually needed to know for the messages that needed to be conveyed. FF 7 and 8 explained too much. They thought adding more and more underlying motivation and intention and lore would add merit to those games but the web grew too thick and they ended up contradicting themselves.