Is it wrong that I sort of agree with Andrew Ryan's ideaology

>>389616726
Any ideology seems appealing if you can pick and choose what you like from it.

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Not wrong at all.

>>389616726
Did you uh, miss the whole point of why Rapture went to shit?

Any ideology taken to it's extreme is shit.

>objectivism

Literally babies first philosophy

Rapture wouldn't have fallen with ryan wasn't a Autist hiding instead of just hiring a hitman to kill Fontaine

>>389617420
there's no baby first philosophy

Ryan was just another 2edgy4me lolbertarian.

>>389616726
No, it's a legitimate ideology, one could argue a pretty popular one actually, only taken to its extreme with a hypocritical leader in a fantasy setting.

>>389616726
Wasn't that literally the entire point of it?

Its supposed to be a fantastic ideology that leads to a great, prosperous society. You're supposed to agree with it.

The trouble comes when the ideology is forced to meet reality and you must figure out a way to enforce that ideology and it turns out that however great the ends are they don't justify the heinous means necessary to reach it.

Nigga who the fuck is Aman

>>389617545
Yes there is.

>>389616726
Depends on what you understand his ideology to be.

>>389616726
Its Ayn Rand fanwank. In reality accomplishments from individuals are negligible. Most of it comes from well organizated institutions

>>389617420
>implying baby's first philosophy isn't nihilism

>inb4 communists start crawling out of the floorboards and dropping their garbage opinions

>>389617741
post proof

>>389616726
Of course it's wrong,because Andrew was just a puppet, you never agreed with him,only the mastermind. He was possessed by the golf club all along.

>>389617420
hating on objectivism is baby's first hating on a philosophical school of thought

>>389616726
Every ideology stems from extremely reasonable desires.

>>389616726
If anything, the point is that it'll always be necessary to organize in order to get anything done, so a leader will establish a management system around himself, which will take on a greater role as bigger problems present themselves. Objectivism is just the belief that what I've described is a "company" rather than a "government."

>>389616726
>no gods no masters
>get outsmarted and lose power
>no u cant have, I'll destroy it then >:(

Ryan was such a little bitch

>>389616726
I don't know if it's intentional or not, but the game implies that if he'd stuck by his beliefs and held fast to them all the way down the line, even if he was no longer in charge of the city itself, his ideology would have gotten vindicated in time.

It could be an accident (Bioshock Infinite is accidentally one of the most racist games ever made, so Irrational were a bunch of hacks) but it's fun to think about.

>>389618774
>you are either a libertard or a commie

>>389616726
Yes because the free market can't self-regulate and there a lot of corporations doing bad shit now because they are too powerful and unfettered.

>>389621508
Corporations enjoy special privileges that other entities do not have, which are granted to them by the state. It's not unreasonable, especially with consideration of both regulatory capture and public choice theory, that the rise of the large powerful corporation is not a result of natural market forces but of interventionism that has outlived its intended purposes.

>>389616726
Any ideology sounds appealing when you choose the parts you like.

Like what villain doesn't have a motive that doesn't sound rational if you can pick parts.

>>389617420
>Hating objectivism
kek

>>389618809

Nihilism is literally babbys first philosophy. It's literally what every angsty 12yo subscribes to. It's faggots first pseudo-intellectual thought 101.

Garbage like Marxism comes afterwards. Maybe that's Faggot 102 or something.

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>>389616726

No.

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>>389623592

Objectivism is pretty gay. However people typically move on to other things so it's whatever.

>>389616726
How? You saw what ended up happening-- how can you agree with a philosophy that failed so epicly?

>>389621268
Commies are shit.

>>389624958
It's fiction. I can make a story in which my pet philosophy creates a spacefaring civilization and the primary antagonists (who believe what I don't like) are trying to destroy it and bring it down into the mud.
>>389624964
Commies are shit. That doesn't mean that lolbergs are significantly better.

>>389616889
>This
I can't believe how many retards out there are espousing the Communist rhetoric in the West. If people want fucking Communism so hard they're welcome to go to Venezuela, see how good Communism did them. The greatest punishment for motherfuckers who want Communism is to make them suffer through Communism.

You just need to pick up one fucking book on any country that picked up Communism and it will change your mind immediately about the ideology, which only tells me that the people pushing it haven't read any history books at all.

Oh yeah there's so many books shitting on capitalism. Well, I'd be glad to read a book on a country where Communism succeeded.

>>389617390
Because it was sabotaged by bad actors?

>>389625129
>oh shit communism is fucking retarded
>better go all out for capitalism
How's that kosher sandwich taste, goy?

>>389625084
Except they detailed exactly why extreme objectivism failed Rapture: it screwed the working class which are an obligate feature or any society, it empowered con men like Fontaine who were able to blossom like a tumor in a society without regulations, and all it's advances in science and art that it was hyped up for immediately went into cut-throat, murderous industry with nothing protecting the inhabitants of the city.

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>>389623371
This gave me a hearty chuckle

>>389624606
what's the non pleb philosophy then

>>389625232
pretty sure it was because fontaine out-ryan'd ryan

and because the city had next to no social services, because of course fucking not with with all the unique snowflakes living there, it had no net of sanity to fall back on after shit hit the fan

>>389616726
Who's Aman?

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>>389617390
Because of magical shit that fucked up the citizens? Pretty sure as long as no substances comes around that cane give people super powers we have nothing to worry about in real life.

>>389616726
On paper no, but (within the setting) in practice and costs yes.

The point of Bioshock is Rapture still failed for the very underlying reasons that led to his "utopia" criticizing what was wrong in capitalism, marxism, fascism and religion: humanity itself is flawed and bound by natural organic desires, thus extremism and unrest are always waiting down the road.

Infinite spoke the same thing but instead about all those non-Rapture ideaologies, going from a racist far-right theocracy to a hellish war caused by rampaging far-left anarchists. Whatever goals Columbia's people were attempting to accomplish only came out as disgusting one-sided murder.

>>389617390
>Any ideology taken to it's extreme is shit.
what about the ideology that any ideology taken to it's extreme is shit

>>389625780
Well in that case the "extreme" would be dismissing any ideology on sight and never thinking about anything. Basically potheads.

>>389625891
>Basically potheads.
>dismissing dude weed lmao on sight

nice ideology

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>>389625891
>>389625780
>Basically potheads
Wrong

>>389616726
How was Frank Fontaine a Con Man? He gave people jobs, shit on 'the boss man' all you want but people needed to buy food, shit they needed to MAKE food too.

>>389625958
if i identify with this man. does this mean i actually don't identify with this man as this man wouldn't identify with another man?

Even discounting all the doomsday stuff that happened in rapture, there was plenty of small every-day bullshit that came up that showed why Ryan was full of shit. No regulations meant you'd buy wine and find out it was mostly diluted with water, or cigarettes made with garbage. And there was no reprucssions for doing shit like that: you basically had to rip people off to survive in that kind of economy.

>>389625525
MONARCHISM

How do I get into philosophy?

>>389616726
>Playing through remastered version now
>Seeing it in a whole different light now that I've grown out of my retarded commie stage.

It was a solid idea for the most part, but there should've been some legislation in place to stop people like Fontaine buying up swathes of industry and building a literal empire. Learn a lesson or two from the banana republics, y'know.

Also they should've banned adam as soon as they found out it fucked people up into splicers. Or at least put more time into figuring it out. Columbia managed to get plasmids right 40 years ago without the nasty side effects, so it's not impossible (if you count that piece of shit as canon)

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>>389625954
When did I ever technically dismiss them? I just merely commented that they're what best fits the example.

>>389625525
>>389626115
Monarchism is good but it's also basically ded which is why all the neoreactionaries are blackpilled as fuck
Fascism/corporatism is its successor

>>389626115
>>389626262
Why do I even bother with you friends?
So you just want to be some random pawns?

>>389625970
The man was a drug dealer-- he knew his shit was addictive and would have horrible consequences on the people who bought it, but he sold it anyway. Then he pulled a bait and switch as Atlas just so he could grab Rapture for himself-- he was a crook. End of story.

>>389626118
Go to /pol/ and argue.

It will take several years but if you're intelligent you will learn enough about yourself that you don't need someone else to tell you who you are and what you think.

If you're retarded you just end up an ideologue.

>Gamers, who deal with some of the shittiest examples of unregulated greed and capitalism, identify with Andrew Ryan
The nuclear bomb was the only good guy in Bioshock.

>>389626429
>Go to /pol/ and argue
>Don't need someone else to tell you who you are and what to think
You're so full of shit, anon. Take your recruiting bullshit somewhere else.

>>389617390
>consistency is bad
Only if there is something fundamentally wrong with your philosophy

>>389626118
Take a first-year college philosophy course. It will be the best ~$300-500 you've ever spent. They're so low priority in scheduling you can often take one during the evening.

You'll have to put up with some hard-line Atheist or Theist who absolutely refuses to discuss the counter-arguements against their beliefs but often someone in the room tells them to fucking grow up and learn some shit.

>>389626118
Just live
After a while you will see that you don't actually give a shit about philo and idelologies and do what you enjoy in life instead of bothering with pointless shits

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I never played burial at sea. I what way did it fuck up the canon? because I know it did.

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>>389626385
Someone is always going to wield power. I could call the libertarian or the Marxist a pawn as well.
Stirner isn't wrong despite being overmemed.

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>>389626568
>dude /pol/ is totally an indoctrination center and not a constant shitfling between basically every ideology lmao
Sure thing anon. He should also visit /his/ and /lit/, though. Debate isn't everything.

>>389625525
Utilitarianism desu

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>>389626568
Welp, at least I tried. I won't post again because I can already tell you are a waste of my time, but consider this: five minutes spent arguing with someone who disagrees with you is worth more in terms of personal growth than a lifetime spent reading academic journals for emotional pats on the ass. Pic related - the process of uncovering your core beliefs is a long and challenging one, and only by being challenged to form positions on a range of issues simultaneously while also being analytical of yourself will you ever be able to develop the kind of personal knowledge of your belief system required to truly know yourself.

If your self-concept is so fucking fragile that you are incapable of having a robust discussion without being afraid that you will be corrupted by some malicious outside entity then yeah, it probably is best that you stay away from /pol/, because you're clearly the kind of retarded ideologue brainlet that makes up 95% of the board.

Stoicism is the only true philosophy.

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>>389627057
Herp, wrong pic.

I guess I am the waste of time today.

>>389627086
Sour grapes is not a philosophy.

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>>389627018
>utilitarianism

>>389626995
Don't pull that bullshit. I'm not a hipster for saying /pol/ is a hell hole for anyone looking for actual civil discussions on philospophy. It's called 'politically incorrect', bias is built into that board.

>>389627130
Explain what's wrong with utilitarianism

>>389627152
>I'm not a hipster for saying /pol/ is a hell hole for anyone looking for actual civil discussions on philospophy
"Civil discussion" is a euphemism for censored discussion.

Just because you can't hold your own when you don't have anyone else holding your opponent back doesn't mean the rest of the world is that pissweak.

Well, it is, but fuck them too.

>>389627057
Poor guy. You really seem defensive that people think /pol/ is a shit heap. I'm sorry your so fragile.

>>389627206
It's literally babby's first ideology.

>>389627246
/pol/ is a shit heap. His point isn't that /pol/ is good, his point is that /pol/ builds character. Manual labour and frontline customer service are both shit jobs that nobody wants to do but they teach you valuable lessons nonetheless.

>>389627130
yeah explain

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>not being a pragmatist

Smh

>>389627206
>cummies are the only intrinsic good :^)
Consequentialism is the only good utilitarianism and even then it's only useful when coupled with other moral stances

>>389616726
Andrew Ryan had the right idea.

But too many fucking assholes fucked it up for the rest.

>>389627303
>/pol/ builds character

/pol/ is a fucking bubble echo chamber that makes you a racist piece of shit in subtle slow way.

>>389627238
It's 'censored' only for edgy teenagers who don't see the value in mutual respect in disagreement. People who see a little bit of tact as some moral abomination can't survive in society.

>>389627303
>utilitarianism
>babies first

It's not simplistic enough. Nihilism, objectivism, and other easy to digest schools of thought are far more apt to be described as babies first.

>>389627303
/pol/ does not build character any more than beating your child gives them character. It just makes them into bitter little missed opportunities.

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>>389627393
Oh, so it comes out. It's not that /pol/ is uncivil or full of ideologues out to push their viewpoint, it's just that there are bad goyim there.

>>389627303
>baby first ideology
Can't take seriously anyone who writes this, at this point it's like saying "I don't like it".
Only in this thread you already have >>389617420 >>389624606 >>389627303 calling something they don't agree with "babby's first ideology"
Bring real arguments or choke on a cock

>>389627128

>Sour grapes

It's not giving up on something because it's out of your reach, it's not worrying about things out of your control. You can still have ambition.

>>389627484
>t. wasn't beaten enough as a child

>gibsmedat

t. Ane Rand

>>389627393
>bubble echo chamber
Stop using words that you don't understand.

/pol/ is the furthest thing from an echo chamber. Controversial opinions are highlighted on /pol/, not hidden. The more controversial a post is the more replies it receives, and the more replies it has both the more it has been read and the more likely it is that someone browsing will stop and read it.

>>389627397
>don't see the value in mutual respect in disagreement
Two mutually exclusive positions cannot both be true you retard. "mutual respect in disagreement" is a euphemism for being too fucking retarded to actually prove yourself right. Just as was said, you avoid /pol/ - and debate - because you simply can't hack it.

>>389627484
>/pol/ does not build character
There is a minimum intelligence requirement for /pol/ to be of use to you. Any dumber and you're right, it's more a harm than a benefit. I guess what I'm saying is that you're too dumb to be helped.

>>389627128
>human mind isn't infinitely malleable
wew starting so wrong doesn't give the enthusiasm to read the rest

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>>389627638
>"mutual respect in disagreement" is a euphemism for being too fucking retarded to actually prove yourself right
I think what he's saying is that even if you consider your opponent to be completely fucking wrong, you can still respect them as an opponent.
Which is true for some ideologies. Others are just too dumb to be worth it.

>>389627441
>not simplistic enough
"Whatever is the greatest good for the most people," isn't simple enough? I'd argue utilitarianism is baby's first precisely because it's so fucking simplified that it's functionally a useless ideology. Try to apply utilitarianism to solve a real world problem - any problem - and watch it fucking collapse because the one sentence of instruction it offers to the world simply isn't enough to be of any help to any decision maker ever.

>>389627498
>real arguments
>against a meme ideology

>hey sociopaths do as you please
>why are you destroying my utopia :sademoji:

He was fucking retarded, that's why he turned his Ayn Rand utopia into a police state and lost it to Fontaine. That's why objectivism only works when every sociopolitical system in the world magically converts to the rules of objectivism, same with capitalism and capitalism.

>>389627779
>no argument again
choke on a cock then

>>389626658
For Rapture: Elizabeth (and Columbia's suspension-science) chasing after a specific Little Sister she never knew is why Rapture failed, although at the hands of the same people previously responsible. Also Bioshock 2's events are apparently retconned out entirely.

For Columbia: Somehow 1 exact Comstock and Elizabeth were allowed to survive the base game's ending (grandfather-paradox problems aside, if we're going by context here), and basically forced some convoluted exceptions to the game's own rules regarding space-time traveling.

Oh also Elizabeth dies along with IG's future.

>>389627638
>/pol/ is the furthest thing from an echo chamber. Controversial opinions are highlighted on /pol/, not hidden. The more controversial a post is the more replies it receives, and the more replies it has both the more it has been read and the more likely it is that someone browsing will stop and read it.

can you tip that fedora harder

>>389627393
>Not being subtly racist

Wew maybe with some age champ

>>389617420
>>389624606
>>389627303
>literally babby's first ideology
kek, you fags should agree on which one is the first

>>389625129
>muh not true Communism

>>389627762
>even if you consider your opponent to be completely fucking wrong, you can still respect them as an opponent.
I completely agree, but there's a time and place for couching your bitchslap in a thousand words of ego-stroking cock-sucking to try and keep your opponent from slipping into an unreceptive defensive crouch, and when you're working with a 2,000 character limit is not either.

Long-form philosophical dialogue is essential, but so to is the kind of short, sharp, and grounded discussion you get on /pol/. You don't find the perspective of the guy who lives in a nigger-infested neighbourhood and owns a shotgun because his house has been broken into twice already this month inside a leatherbound academic journal. Though that guy's perspective isn't the whole debate, it's not any less an important part of it than the opinion of a cloistered Oxford academic.

>>389627858
*oh also forgot: SJW's made 2K force Levine to rewrite Daisy Fitzroy as an innocent martyr to the Luteces' plans.

>>389627779
Define good, define people, define greatest, what's the gradation of goods, etc.
It's dependent upon other things, and self-professed utilitarians are almost always shallow hedonists or materialists.
>>389627812
Nice ignoring my earlier response, you fucking dicksmoker. Maybe someone should buy you a philosophy course for your sixteenth birthday.

>>389627638
I didn't think there were people who honestly took any board on 4chan this seriously. Do you know where you are? Do you know why people come here? I can tell you why you definietly shouldn't come here, and that's to take anything in this place seriously. This website is a living shitshow-- that's why we like it. But for the people who start to take it seriously and take this shitposting into the real world, I have only one piece of advice: take a break from the internet. Not forever, just long enough to remember what the world is like outside of all of this. It'll do you some good, kid, and you sound like you could use it.

>>389627897
Not an argument.

>>389627940
>It's dependent upon other things, and self-professed utilitarians are almost always shallow hedonists or materialists.
Yep.

Utilitarian ethics always boil down to "I think good is..." and they turn out to be just as much a moralist as anyone else, because their definition of good invariably requires the same kind of assumptions as any other deontologist.

In short, I think utilitarianism is dodging the question. Much like libertarians who just say "less government" to dodge the question of how much government precisely it is that they actually want.

>>389627940
>nice ignoring my earlier response
>earlier response is "babby's first..." the thing I'm calling him out for
hm

>>389627904
They're all babby's first. They're simplistic ideologies that are easily grasped but will feel like deep revelations to the newfag.

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>>389627972
>nothing is serious, everything is ironic, actually having beliefs is for suckers :PPPP
You are a blight.

Firstly, I'm not overselling /pol/. It's a shithole. But you are underselling it. It's not entirely shit.

>>389626658
First of all it turned Elizabeth into a sociopath, or more of a sociopath I suppose. It also makes Elizabeth the most important character in the entire series, including the first Bioshock.

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>>389628175
Ideologies themselves are babby's first.

True men develop their own belief systems through robust debate.

>>389627638
I avoid /pol/ because regardless of how many times I prove them wrong, Holocaust deniers still post regularly. It's impossible to hold a debate with a community with such a disregard for reality. What persists in /pol/ isn't truth, it's whatever gets people excited/annoyed/upset/aroused. It's a community of highly emotional people whipping themselves up into unreasonable frenzies incapable of self reflection, which is how you end up with shit like Trump gen and ongoing Pizzagate horseshit instead of stats analysis.

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>>389628175
all babby's first huh? You must be very smart and mature.
Do you mind sharing which ideologies are the patrician approved, we all want to learn?

>>389628305
/pol/ is just as whiny and uneducated as tumblr or the majority of reddit. It's like old /b/ with more structure.

>>389628237
It's a good thing to do but honestly the philosophical landscape is so divided up that even someone who does the proper thing and cultivates his own worldview is going to end up mostly falling within a box.
That doesn't mean they should change their views to fit completely within that box, though.

>>389628167
See >>389627320 and then gas yourself, you completely pointless waste of space.

>>389625654
The irl equivalent would be meth or something.

>>389628184
Look, I'm very happy you happened to be on a few /pol/ threads that accidentally broke out into a glimmer of human intellect, but I don't need to convince you that was a rare surprise in a sea of festering bullshit. You know it too. If you're trying to say that it's possible for a good conversation to happen anywhere, yeah. But there are clearly places where that is way less likely to happen than others, and /pol/ is up there with some of the worst places on the internet.

>>389628397
>say X is better but doesn't explain why it is or why Y is bad
nice answer you sure convinced us with those strong arguments

>>389617390
Except that, while the devs were trying to make that point, that wasn't shown at all. The city was founded on the idea of the free market and the freedom of man from totalitarian rule whether by God or state. In the end though he went against those principles banning things and ideas (the bible) and became the state that he fled. It wasn't the extreme of the principles at all that lead to its downfall but the neglect of them.

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>>389628363
Basically anything other than nihilism and bare utilitarianism, honestly. Even Marxism has some semblance of philosophical depth, it's certainly better than
>dude nothing matters lmao
>dude dopamine lmao

>>389628305
Two things:

Firstly, it's not about the poster opposite you. It's about the ten people on the fence reading the discussion. You'll never convince the person you're arguing with (well, sometimes you will and they won't admit it and maybe once in a hundred times you'll find some noble soul who will admit it) but you sure as hell can convince everyone else watching. There's nothing as heartwarming as jumping into a thread about [topic] that you've spent the past month or so arguing about on /pol/ and seeing someone else repeating your talking points almost word for word. You can make a difference.

And secondly, it's not even about the argument. It's about your own personal development that occurs through the act of arguing. Even if your retarded opponent is just dribbling over his keyboard just the fact that he is forcing you to consider your own positions is something to be grateful for. Not to mention that reading other people's arguments (as in, being a bystanding lurker) breeds impartiality.

Lastly, as a sidenote not relevant but just as important, speaking to so many different people from so many diverse perspectives gives you a much deeper understanding of all the potential stakeholders in various issues.

>>389628397
>even someone who does the proper thing and cultivates his own worldview is going to end up mostly falling within a box
This is true. We are all doomed to be labelled.

>>389628434
>it's possible for a good conversation to happen anywhere
There are different types of good conversation. A good conversation on /pol/ is not replaceable with a good conversation from somewhere else. You could spend a lifetime having good conversations at Oxford and never hear the just as important, just as relevant opinion of that dude in the nigger infested neighbourhood and what he thinks about gun rights.

You need a breadth of experience to have a deep understanding of issues. Go to Oxford. Speak to the geniuses. Have the "proper" debate. But go to /pol/ too.

>>389628305
>that whole pizzagate shit
wew lad I left the board for a while because of how ridiculous this thing went
some guy are really bored

>>389628554
>nihilism
>baby's first
You're both right AND wrong.

Positivism is the patrician "ideology" and necessarily leads to nihilism. But not all nihilists are positivists.

>>389628762
>positivism
>POSITIVISM
holy shit just trash it
I won't call it babby's first though because edgy teenagers don't know what the word means even if they are it.

>>389625232
Any and all system will eventually be met by people who will game the system for their own gain, or in your words, "bad actors". The test is how robust a system is against exploitation.

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>>389628851
But can you PROVE it's trash?

What a terrible thread.

>>389628719
>You could spend a lifetime having good conversations at Oxford and never hear the just as important, just as relevant opinion of that dude in the nigger infested neighbourhood and what he thinks about gun rights.

The problem is, like most personal anecdotes on an anonymous forum, these perspectives you value are only rarely real and are much more frequently convenient fictions to signal political values and garner a sense of community. There's nothing to stop people from lying or even reflecting on the shit they write, so naturally people write whatever gets them the most attention.

>>389616726
Yes, it means you are underage B& and got a lot of maturing to do before you are allowed to post here.

>>389628550
>that wasn't shown at all.

You need to learn to be less dense and learn to infer things without needing it to be explained to you in a dialogue sequence. Video games are about show not tell after all. The point of Rapture was that kind of society is impossible to begin with since it goes against human nature. In that way it is similar to communism. Someone will inevitably seek to have more than the others and will break the established rules to get what he wants. If anything Objectivism makes this even more likely since it encourages selfishness. Hence why Rapture didn't manage to last as long as the USSR did.

>>389617420
This. Except it isn't even an actual philosophy. Objectivism is just "what ever ayn rand does is right even if it contradicts what she said 5min ago". It's just some narcissistic cunt slapping a fancy label onto her selfishness. It's similar to how modern feminist will scream how their shitty attitude isn't because they are a horrible person, but a strong independent womyn who doesn't need no man.

>>389626143
>there should've been some legislation in place to stop people like Fontaine

He would have just either had it re-written or ignored it. Objectivist only adhere to the NAP, they hate constitutions.

>>389627328
Just like communism right kiddo? >>>/reddit/

>>389629201
True, and I grappled with this for a while as well until I came to the realisation that with 7 billion people on the planet it didn't matter if the guy I was arguing with was lying or not. Somewhere out there, there is a dude living in a nigger infested shithole who has the same views.

And even if you reject this, the points I mentioned here are still true: >>389628559.

Besides, I don't think people lie as much as you think. Not every post is a lie, at least. People really are capable of holding genuine opinions. Two of them are doing it right now.

>>389628559
>just the fact that he is forcing you to consider your own positions
True. Writing down your thoughts in the form of an argumentative post is a good exercise. I think it's the nature of writing being external to your mind that allows for more honest evaluation.

>>389626143
>there should've been some legislation in place to stop people like Fontaine
A man-made law, a COLLECTIVE agreement, that would limit one's opportunity and potential?

>>389629442
I don't normally assume that people lie in anonymous scenarios, but you should know by now from posting here that compelling fictions get rewarded far more than mundane facts. What gets the most positive attention isn't what's real, but what people WANT to be real.

>>389629719
COLLECTIVISM RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>389629337
Im the second guy you responded to there.

As far as infering things I never said I was someone who subscribed to objectivism. I do have libertarian leanings though. According to the 8 values test I'm a neo-liberal. I wasn't supporting the idea of it but pointing out what the game clearly showed. While pointing out that the devs weren't trying to show that at all. Comeplete side note but you need to chill nigga like calm down a little, jesus.

>>389625129
Venezuela is not communist.

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>>389629780
>According to the 8 values test I'm a neo-liberal

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>>389630102
>>389629780
Seriously.

horseshoe theory, more like fishhook theory amirite

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>>389630102

File: 1504418615959.jpg (61KB, 1024x418px) Image search: [Google]

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>>389630213
quoit theory > all

>>389618980
This

>>389628184
Not him bro but when you jump so far from the context of someones post and then call them a blight it usually is a good indicator that you and the internet need a quick break. But I do agree with you about /pol/. Of course it's not entirely shit, but it's mostly still just shit. And is that even worth trying to take seriously?

Andrew's whole fatal flaw was that he couldn't accept that people wanted things that were outside of his vision, along with the fact that he carried out his ideology to an unrealistic expectation. People like religion? No space for that in mah society. People want a market that I don't have a dog in? Can't have that. He's not a caricature of libertarianism, he's a caricature of any ideology that doesn't make room for the fact that the real world exists.

>>389625129
>If it isn't communism it's capitalism!
How to spot the sheep

>>389627317
Pragmatism is more a methodology to something tangible than ideology itself. In this >>389627128 model, it would be the outer core or mantle.

The entire core of Fascism is attempting to be pragmatic, doing what is best for the nation, but then it gets caught up in so many spooks and conflicting views of what "right" actually means that it completely cocks it up. An ideal at the core and a practical implementation derived are what matter, not that it was pragmatic in going from one to the other.