Mania is NOT better than 3&K

3K isn't even the best classic Sonic game.

3K fags are honestly pretty cancerous

is it now the time where /v/ goes full contrarian to Mania? let's get started then

>2 games combined is better than 1 game

Woah!

repeating something over and over isn't an argument

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>3&K being better than 2

I remember Sakura Synagogue was the meme name for Press Garden, but did one of the leakers call it Pulp Solstice at the time?

>>389464726
Op is autistic.

>>389465184
Anon is a nigger.

Mania > 2 > CD = 3&K > 1

You've got to be a retard to not see how Mania is head and shoulders above everything in the series.

>>389465327
Objectively correct ranking.

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>>389465327

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>>389465327
Please explain how Mania is better than any of the Classics when
1. It rehashes 80% of the zones from them
2. Rehashes the blue sphere stages
3. Special stages are uninteresting and easy as fuck to play through, feels like playing through a app on a phone game desu
4. What's original of the game isn't spectacular or all that special either
5. It's a prequel to Forces
It's a bad game. The fact that anyone ranks it above the classics shows that they are easily impressionable delusional idiots.

>>389464726
But Mania has the best versions of 3&Ks best levels and Mania's new levels are better than any of the good ones missing from it.

I will allow exactly 1 (one) argument to be made for Mushroom Hill and that is it.

>>389465619
>>389465675
niggers

>>389464726
CD > 3K

>>389465327
Great taste
>>389465797
Kill yourself you piece of shit

>>389465327
Switch 2 and CD

>>389465714
Shut the hell up retard

>>389465849
You're the piece of shit you fucking nigger. I'd empty a clip on your head you insufferable monkey.

>>389465327
>CD
>that high
Every time

>>389464726
>REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

If you say it enough times out loud, you might even believe it yourself.

>>389465986
Don't tell me what to do you braindead nigger.

>>389466023
U mad, get so better taste too

Sonic 3 is not a good game.

>>389466105
nigger nigger nigger nigger I said it 4 times so I win :)

No, but it's also a lot cheaper than 3&K was.

Pretty interesting take on previous games at times, too.

>>389464776
If you say 2 is, I swear to God. At least a quarter of its zones are shit.

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>>389465714
It expands the stages without compromising their integrity.

>>389466424
WAAAH WAHH MOMMY METROPOLIS ZONE, SHUT THE FUCK UP AND GIT GUD TIRED OF YOU SHITTERS

>>389466198
calling me a nigger won't make my beautiful light skin any darker and your black skin any lighter :^)

>>389465714
>Please explain how Mania is better than any of the Classics when
>1. It rehashes 80% of the zones from them
It is literally a 60/40 split between new levels and returning levels.

Also, taking the best levels from older games objectively makes Mania better by your own logic, you fucking autist.

>2. Rehashes the blue sphere stages

Content is content, and blue sphere bonus stages are a nostalgia throwback.

Guess what nigger, 3&K had them too.

>3. Special stages are uninteresting and easy as fuck to play through, feels like playing through a app on a phone game desu

Same as 3&K.

>4. What's original of the game isn't spectacular or all that special either

An opinion, unsubstantial against the opinions of others on the games worth.

>5. It's a prequel to Forces

3&K is a prequel to Adventure 2. Prove me wrong without discrediting yourself you fucking idiot.

>It's a bad game. The fact that anyone ranks it above the classics shows that they are easily impressionable delusional idiots.

Mania > 2 > CD = 3&K > 1

Get used to it: Mania is now and will forever be considered the best sonic game to date.

>>389464726
hah

sales will tell a different story, m8

Sonic 3 complete > Mania > 3K > CD > 2 > 1

>>389466190
This.

Sonic 3 is garbage. Autistic babbys like it because its so dumbed dowm easy a dog with the controller taped to his paw could beat it. Autistic babbys can't play any video game that has even a hint of challenge without throwing the controller in fruatration and having an autistic meltdown.

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>>389465714
>didn't mention UFO stage rehash
I see someone didn't play CD.

I would have preferred the half-pipe from Sonic2 but man you are a retard who doesn't even know what he's talking about lol

Funny how /v/ touted 3&K as the absolute best of the series but all of a sudden they're switching sides now...
>>389464776
>>389464980
>>389465327
>>389465828
>>389466190
Honestly just kill yourselves you pieces of fucking shit. This is why I never listen to the majority opinion on Sonic games because you're all braindead fat autistic virgins that constantly switch sides and just choose whatever benefits you/copy and spout memes. Just fuck off from this fucking franchise.

>>389466492
I refuse to believe you unironically like Hill Top Zone, Mystic Cave, Metropolis, and Death Egg zone. Even 3 alone exceeds 2 on consistent stage quality.

Good to know we've already started the contrarian shitpostan

>>389464726
I disagree; Sonic Mania has better level design. The only things S3&K has over it are the stage transitions being only on a few stages and less glitches. But these problems will most likely be addressed in a patch.

>>389466948
Only autists like Sonic 3 tho

>>389466948
>reeeee enjoy my red coldsteel or else reee

>>389466956
>Hill top
Fun and comfy
>Mystic cave
Jammin music with a cool theme
>Metropolis
Steps up the challenge with causal filter
>Death egg zone
The best final boss in the classic series

>>389466885
whoopty doo the game rehashed something else I forgot to talk about. It's my fault for sure. Kill yourself you fucking retarded spic

>>389467080
Knuckles is in Mania too you fucking nigger... Why are you such a nigger..... Life must be horrid living it as a brainlet, huh?

OP needs to cuddle his Thomas the Tank Engine plush again.

>>389466956
Hill Top is my favourite stage
2 literally does not have a bad level until Metropolis, whereas 3K has at least 4 throughout

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sonic & knuckles standalone is the only good sonic game

>>389467132
Gonna go beat off after another session of Mania just because of how good it is compared to games you haven't even played
>>389467240
>implying I have to pick him

>>389464726
i just got done playing Sonic 1-3

Sonic 1 is trash, momentum is shit, movement is shit, some of the platforming is megaman 1 levels of bullshit. You aren't allowed to go fast ever. Levels are maze-like, but not in a fun way, because it hinders your speed. 6 worlds, 3 acts each.

Sonic 2 fixes a lot of the problems of Sonic 1. Movement is better, and getting momentum is much easier and more fluid. Going through loops in Sonic 1 is a slog, but feel very satisfying in Sonic 2. Hanging on things is shit gimmick that gets you killed more often than not. But the levels are far more simple, but still remain interesting. 10+ worlds, 2 acts each.

Sonic 3 is a cluster fuck of design. Levels are far too long and complex. Constantly get a new shitty gimmick thrown at you. Often you feel like your are going in circles or whether or not you are making any progress. Rather than being thematic, the levels feel repetitive due to everything looking the same. Unlike Sonic 2, you go full stop and have to figure how to use the level's gimmick to continue. 6 worlds, 2 acts each.(add Knuckles and you still just get a shit ton of more gimmicky levels that far outstay their welcome.

>>389467360
Kill yourself you dickheaded nigger

>>389467107
So you don't like them unironically then.

>>389467538
Glad we can agree Sonic 2 is best classic, now go play mania! It's waiting for you :)

>>389467643
Wat

>>389467395
Self projecting aren't ya ya fucking spic. I bet you haven't played a Sonic game other than Mania a day in your worthless life.

>>389467307

Carnival Night is the only zone in 3 that's unintuitive (and just because of that fucking barrel).You'll have to tell me which & Knuckles ones are fucked, because I might be nostalgia blind.

>>389467107
>metropolis
>casual filter

why is that level considered so difficult?

i played it earlier, and all i remember was having to stop or pace myself on the nuts & bolts to not get hit by exploding starfish.

Why are Sonic fans so autistic?

So... this is the sonic fanbase... Woah...

>>389467874
Cuz casuals keep going on about "muh enemy placement" like it's not even bad just have better reaction time is all like damn

>>389467775
You literally stated nothing. Then went to say broken hitbox death egg robot was good. Fucking Big Arm at least lets you take some initiative. As for Kyodai Eggman Robo, it's a little on the easy side.

>>389467880
>>389467885
Nobody forced you to come in this thread faggots

People who talk shit about Sonic 1's level design are brainlets. The point of the game, no, the point of the entire fucking franchise flew over your fucking head. I bet you think the "gotta go fast XD" meme translates to the actual game. Stupid pieces of fucking shit!

>that comfy realization S3&K, CD, 2, 1 and Mania are all good games and valid favorites for people

>>389467829
>just the barrel

the levels are extremely long, and often repeat. Rather than going through the level and taking the route you make for yourself like in Sonic 2, you are stuck just following the obstacle course that just loops over and over, until you reach the god forsaken end. Just when you think its over, you have to do a bunch of the same platforming all over again.

>>389464726
3K has:
>more Special Stages/Emeralds/Forms
>more Bonus Stages, all of which provide powerups
>more Level Transitions

Mania has:
>Knuckles as a follower, one more character combo than 3K
>the Drop Dash, Super Peel Out, and Tails can carry Sonic without having to use 2 controllers
>the Blue Shield, Hyper Ring, and the Elemental Shields have new environmental interactions
>superior sprite
>superior VS Mode
>superior Time Attack to CD
>Mean Bean Machine
>other technological advancements like more frames to the animations, more detailed sprites, more consistent framerate, widescreen, etc

They're both 9/10 games that drop some balls in relation to one another. Even the stuff that the Sonic 3 Complete ROM hack adds doesn't negate everything that Mania has over it.

>>389467874
I never found Metropolis Zone hard. Ever. But then, I grew up playing hard ass NES games and not pampered tushy tush playstation garbage, so maybe my gaming skills might be just a little bit more sharp than an autistic sonicfag's.

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>tfw too slow to catch the UFO

>>389468089
This though! Fucking brainlets
>>389468058
>broken hitbox
The fuck are you talking about it's timing is key pretty fair fight too don't know the problem is, big arms is boring too

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But you're paying for enhanced ambience.
Captcha: FOR SALE SOLD.

>>389468089
>liking four acts of linear underwater maze with bullshit spears everywhere.
Come on, dude, step it up.

Super Mario World was better than all the classic Sonic games anyway.

>>389468194
Focus on getting spheres first and then go for rings. Make sure you take as many shortcuts as possible as soon as you hit max speed. Jump when you turn corners.

>>389468089
That the appeal of sonic, the first act of each game encourages going fast.

Thats what got kids into the series.

But what you fail to realize is Sonic 1 is pretty shit level design. There is nothing remotely memorable or good about Sonic 1's levels.

Sonic 2 actually lets you go fast, and if you fuck up, you can still use your invincibility frames to pick up your momentum and keep rolling along.

>>389468476
>Flying over 90% of levels the game

>>389468194
Spheres to mach2/3 > Focus on shortcuts (since the UFO always takes them) > rings/orbs(with bonuses) while you're speeding through

Some maps you can catch up to the UFO in one pass.

What is it about Sonic fans?

>>389468597
and missing every secret exit? nice one

>>389468596
Green hill zone though!!

>>389468407
>being a pussy ass brainlet that wants a shitty uninspired game that only has easy levels that cater to his brainlet-ness
Come on, dude! Step it up!

>>389468597
>taking the coward's way out

I figure you play as Tails too, then.

>>389468649
>>389468480
reminds me

>says catch the ufo
>try being cheeky, do a 180 and run into the other direction
>the UFO does the same

>>389464726
Both are masterpieces, but Mania is, as a matter of fact, better than 3&K.

>>389464726
Cool autism bro

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>>389468706
>sonic 1 fag
>talks about uninspired

>>389468664
How about if I don't care about secret exits
>>389468724
What's wrong with playing as tails?

>>389468596
t. brainlet
Reread my post. The point of these games fly over your head completely. The level design is like that for a reason.

>>389468935
>playing SMW
>not getting the exits

enjoy never beating the game scrublord

>>389468935
no

Legit question; how many people have played Taxman's Sonic 1 with spindashing?
I rank it nearly as good as Sonic 2 desu.

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>sonic 1 has bad level design

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>>389469012
>The level design is shit for a reason

The only level I missed was Sky Sanctuary

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>Mania is better than 1, 2, CD and 3&K

>>389469096
That's not a proper answer to my question
>>389469086
Still doesn't change I can fly over most levels

>>389469262
I don't blame you for being so fucking retarded, but myself for thinking I can get through to a brainlet.

I really wanted /v/ to like Sonic Mania, so I'm glad there's so many posters here praising it.

redpill me on sonic mania. Is it just a compliation of genesis sonic levels with updated graphics?

>>389469607
Same I'm so very glad :)

>>389469705
>:)
Fuck you

>>389469705
>:)
These are the type of brainlets that like Mania everyone. Like pottery

>>389469614
8 Stages from 1, 2, CD, 3&K and 4 Original stages. The best designed stages of all classic sonic pretty much and the best looking classic sonic. Chase the UFO is probably the best bonus stage of classic sonic games. Blue Sphere if you like that, don't have to play it at all though. The best new enemies in years; the hard boiled heavies kick the shit out of most Sonic bad guys.

Basically if you liked the classic sonic series you'll love this.

SANIC MAN IA TOO BITCH

>>389469614
Half new (they all suck), half remixed (all of the added routes are bad).

Overall, the game is deeply flawed, and so clearly fanmade. The design decisions and flow is just so wrong, it's like CD on acid.

It's still the best sonic game in over a decade, but that isn't saying much. It's also pathetically easy, even more trivial than the Advance games.

>>389469774
No no no fuck (you)
>>389469874
Actually Sonic 1 is my favorite with mania slightly below so who the brainlet now??

>>389469919
>the hard boiled heavies kick the shit out of most Sonic bad guys.
LmaoooooooooooooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Why are Sonic fans always so angry?

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I cannot imagine being such a jaded contrarian that you don't like Sonic Mania.

It's like people are turning into real life Cranky Kong.

>>389470010
See, I thought you were being sarcastic with your smiley face, but you actually like Mania so I retract my previous "Fuck you".

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>>389470069
Design-wise, bitch. I don't care about Sanic power levels.

Music in Sonic 1 and 2 is better than anything in 3K or Mania.

>>389470125
I like Sonic Mania, I just think it's nowhere near as good as the classics and nowhere near the best the franchise has ever seen. And in all honesty that's you in your pic related. Old cranky piece of shit that gets angry people don't share the same opinions he does

>>389466956

>Can't stay above the caves in Hilltop Zone

If you hate the rising lava parts just get better at the game scrub

2 is the best Sonic

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>>389470281
LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO they're shitty as fuck in that regard too. Pic related, Metal Sonic Overlord, Black Doom, Solaris and Perfect Dark Gaia all shit stomp those uninspired garbage designs any day bitch.

>>389470338
So damn true

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>>389470527
Metal Sonic I see you, all those other ones are fucking final fantasy tier and look like they could come from anything. Not strong at all.

>>389465327
CD's level design becomes downright annoying by the end. Wacky Workbench makes Labyrinth Zone look good by comparison. When I was young I would think about replaying CD and Sonic 1 and would always be deterred by thoughts of Labyrinth Zone and Wacky Workbench.

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>>389467360

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>>389470286
Sonic 1 fans are the most autistic part of an already autistic fanbase.

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>>389464726
The majority of S&K's stages are shit. S3 is pretty comfortable all around with only Carnival Night being a big misstep (and I'm not just talking about the barrel), but S3&K doesn't have that great a ratio of good and bad stages.

>>389470703
Nigger that looks like it was taken straight out of a literal-who indie fan game. It doesn't fit with Sonic at all. You're a idiot.

>>389464726

why the fuck would i pay for that shitty rom hack when there are superior hacks like sonic megamix and for free?

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>>389464726
>thinking an opinion is fact

never change /v/

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>>389470896
Once your brain is decayed enough to vouch for this shit heap your credibility is already out the window. Opinion discarded.

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Guys
guys
guys....

You can like both games believe it or not..

>>389470890
The only stage that's "shit" in S&K is sandopolis

>>389470125
The game is alright, it's just immensely overhyped. Anyone who rates it above any of the classic titles is braindead.

I'd love to see a sequel made by actual game designers, but I doubt there are any left at Sega these days. For a fangame, it's easily top 3. As an actual game, I'd honestly hesitate to suggest it over Adventure.

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CHEMICAL PLANT

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>>389471101
Yes because pic related can only be enjoyed by patricians and anyone who thinks otherwise is wrong.. I bet that you have a literal piece of rotting decaying shit inside your head that functions as a would-be brain.

>>389471337
Yeah gonna have to agree Adventure just had more content and polish than mania, it is what it is

>>389471353
>filename
Umm

>>389471337
this

>>389464726
kys autist

>>389464869
>2 games
More like two unfinished games that just so happened to end up being combined together.

>>389471529
t. autistic braindead nigger
kys now before it gets worse

>>389465714
>3. Special stages are uninteresting and easy as fuck to play through, feels like playing through a app on a phone game desu
Oh FUCK OFF. These are the best bonus stages the series has to offer.

>>389471719
Are you braindead? Nothing from Mania is "the best the series has to offer"

>>389464726
>>389464776
In order for a possible Mania sequel to surpass 3&K and 3C it has to have:
- All new zones (like 3&K) or at least branch out to zones that weren't already in the classic games
- Unique Paths for Knuckles and Tails. They also get unique bosses in certain zones and different endings. (3&K had MUCH more unique Knuckles paths and bosses, having them for Tails would surpass it)
- Bonus stages that give you rings/shields and continues (Like 3&K)
- Zone transitions for every stage and a story on par with S3&K
- More satisfying endings and a better final boss
- Unlockable Amy Rose and Metal Sonic with unique moves. (Every mainline Classic game added at least one new character, except CD)
- Drop Dash and Insta Sheild together for Sonic
- 14 Special Stages and Super Emeralds
- More Dev time

Also, objectively: 3C/3&K > M > Taxman CD > 2 > 1
Mania is close to 3&K and has better animation, even slightly edges out in level design but it falters in the finale and gets some of the little touches, like bonus stages, wrong. They even forgot that Angel Island should be floating at in the opening cutscene. There's a lot of obvious cut content in the last half and it doesn't transition as smoothly as the first half. 3&K is a much more complete game.

>people FINALLY realizing Sonic 3 isn't that great
About fucking time.

>>389471926
We were always here, it's just the loud "muh 3&K is the best" autists

>>389471337
>I'd love to see a sequel made by actual game designers
The "actual game designers" of the Sonic series has failed to make a game that reaches the quality of Mania ever since 3&K
>As an actual game, I'd honestly hesitate to suggest it over Adventure.
Oh never mind you're retarded.

>>389472149
Mania is as good as Sonic Dash top fucking kek.

>>389471398
>adventure
>more content and polish
So going by your logic Adventure has more content than the classics so it's a better game? And where's the "polish"?

>>389472304
Stop being bad at video games and blaming the game for your faults.

>>389472281
nice shitpost but why did you feel the need to reply to me?

>>389472379
What did you mean by this?

>>389472304
Adventure is a better game than the classics lol. Honestly if you object to this we can arrange a meetup

>>389472481
It's not the games fault you suck so much you get these "glitches" you keep doing that shit on purpose to please the game grumps

>>389472389
because I refuse to let evil win. I won't let you have your way, Eggman!

>>389472149
>>The "actual game designers" of the Sonic series has failed to make a game that reaches the quality of Mania ever since 3&K
Straight up wrong. Adventure is flawed, for sure, but still a decent attempt to take Sonic to 3D. The Advance titles are far better than Mania, even if they do share some of the same issues like being braindead easy.

>>389472560
>If you don't like a video game I like we should meet IRL
?
>>389472573
Why are you projecting so hard?

>>389472720
Because the "flaws" sonic adventure has are non existent, try again

>>389472670
>Adventure is flawed, for sure, but still a decent attempt to take Sonic to 3D.
Sonic doesn't work in 3D.
>The Advance titles are far better than Mania
Good joke.

>>389464726
I still believe S3&K is better than Mania, but only for a handful of reasons

>Competitive mode is squished Sonic 2 garbage
>Zone transitions are missing in a bunch of zones, killing the flow of the game
>Since there are no Super Emeralds, exploration is useless, unlike S3&K which had two sets of emeralds divided in both halves

Although Mania manages to close in because it's a great game, It's still not as good as S3&K

>>389472810
They are though, much more content and things to do plus the level design is actually challenging and we'll thought out

>>389472768
The moments when your Mom isn't stuffing every one of her hole with cocks is nonexistent too.

>>389472768
i love you <3
>>389472720
you are a braindead chimp that can only spout memes, that's why. if i didn't put you in your place you'd continue to spout all this bullshit and get away with it.

>>389464726
Nostagiafags needs to die, seriously.

>>389472913
Not an argument

almost every level added in & knuckles was complete shit, so you're completely wrong
a lot of the levels in 3 are pretty great though

>>389472901
Which game exactly?

>>389473040
All of them

am I the only one that think the music aren't good like 3&K and disliked the art of titanic monarch zone? too much carnival art from an ending zone..

>>389472810
Your life doesn't work in 3D you fucking retarded ass nigger. And the Advance games ARE fucking better than Mania, you stupid piece of shit.

>>389473000
Takes one to know one.

>>389473245
>the advance games are better than Mania

List the improvements, I will wait

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>this thread

>>389473312
dey are bettuh gaems because dey hav my waifu amy wose XD

>>389473089
You might be autistic.

>3&Kfags getting btfo
Feels good.

>>389471291
And mushroom Hill
And Flying Battery
And Death Egg

Were there any Sonic RPG games? The Bioware game couldn't have been that bad, could it have? Mega Man had Command Mission and something else.

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>>389465714
>Rehash
60/40 but still, I do feel the ideas they had could have just been their own stages, a.e. Chem plant zone. It was Sega more than likely not them.

>Rehash Blue Sphere
Since it's a "Celebration" they brought back a fan fav, and it's just to unlock modes. I like the half pipe a bit better, but w/e

>Special Stages
Your opinion

>Originality
That's just bullshit anon and you know it. but in the end yes, its still just your opinion

>Forces
I think its kind of ..strange but it does explain how classic sonic got there again.
But again not liking the decision is just YOUR OPINION

I know this is bait but shit anon.

>>389473567
>>389471291
This meme needs to die.

Every single stage in S3&K is great, even the odd ones like Carnival Night and Sandopolis are still great stages.

>>389473312
>They're new 2D titles
>Barely rehashes anything
>Uses the better modern designs
>Gameplay is faster, Sonic and co. have bigger movesets
>Story is better and more original

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i enjoyed mania but the boss fights were a let down and the boss fight music was goofy sonic saturday morning am bullshit

>>389473496
Are you this fucked in the head that you're only seeing what you want to see? this entire thread mania fags tried speaking up about their favorite shitty rom hack but I stopped them before they can spread their cancer and put them in their place.

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Shittiest boss? Shittiest boss.

>>389473781
this. music is also shitty and uninspired. Tee Lopes is a hack

>>389473672
Mania is also a new 2D title
It rehashes things, and the new stuff is remixed old stuff as well (Sunset Hill)
The modern designs are not better, that's subjective
Gameplay is not faster, it is in fact much slower, specially since the Game Boy Advance screen is tiny
The story in advance 1 is nonexistant, the other advance games explain their story through fucking cutscenes

>>389473834
kys

I like Sonic, Sonic 2, Sonic CD, Sonic 3 & Knuckles, and Sonic Mania.

>>389473913
More like git gud and stop sucking ass at video games so much boss, hell it's not even hard so whats the problem it's simple and easy to understand and fun

>>389473998
no u

>>389474045
It's not hard, it's just not good

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>>389473969
And NOT good animated cutscenes

>>389473969
>Mania
>new
What an oxymoron

>>389474102
How is it not? I don't understand the problem

>>389474137
awful taste

>>389470896
>It doesn't fit with Sonic at all.
So a cartoony egg-shaped robot doesn't fit in a cartoony game with a blue hedgehog and a goofy egg-shaped villain but a bunch of edgy Final Fantasy-esque monsters somehow do? What the fuck have you been smoking? I'm starting to think you've only ever played the Adventure games. The HBH fit in with the series aesthetic far better than anything you listed.

>>389474045
You can stand in one place (under its mandible) and avoid all damage indefinitely
Every time you hit it (to knock it into the spikes and deal damage) it gets a hurt recovery, drawing this shitty fight out

Horrible battle.

>>389474139
It has new content, the old stages have new layouts, recolored backgrounds and tilesets, remade music and the second acts have new backgrounds and new gimmicks. It is new
>>389474243
Those cutscenes were garbage

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>3&K better than Sonic and Knuckles

>>389472810
I think Sonic can work in 3D, they just haven't gotten it down. I think something like Utopia (with real level design of course) would be the proper direction.

>>389474536
even worse autism than "mania is romhack ree" crowd

The only thing 3&k has over mania is the story.
You don't play sonic for the story, right anon?

>>389474728
S&K was the true peak of the series

>>389474696
We'll find out later this year when they showcase that new level