MMORPGs

EQ went wrong, WoW killed it.

>>389046523
The internet and casuals.
You can't.
Having to learn from experience rather than searching everything on the wiki forced people to interact.
The fact that every easter egg and glitch wasn't carefully catalogued meant that you had an incentive to explore, and show off the shit you found to the wide eyed noobs.
Having to get a group together meant that, while a pain in the ass when the level stagnation hit, you at least worked with people that had to communicate

>>389046827
And datamining fucked it beyond belief.

File: a07db2ecf1b4123eb0533db0307ebd5693e95359ecbfbb535dfa54b45de8a6fe.png (229KB, 1600x2509px) Image search: [Google]

229KB, 1600x2509px

>>389046750
>everquest babbies

lol. if that's the case, then you fucked up the genre as well

>>389047553
I said EQ went wrong and WoW finally killed the genre. Where the fuck did you get that I like that carebear shit game?

>>389046523
Wait for VRMMOs

>>389046827
>>389047132
Right answers this fast wtf? Is /v/ not actually retarded afterall?

Too much focus on theme park events, not enough focus on player on player interactivity. It's that simple.

File: 300px-Hall-of-heroes-poster-page[1].jpg (42KB, 300x424px) Image search: [Google]

42KB, 300x424px

This is the best MMO and the developers killed their own game for a sequel that is nothing like the original except in name.

>>389048021
They are both shit games you fucking child.

>>389047840
But no one wants to help in official servers or private servers in any MMO. They just shove you out and say Google when Google has outdated info. The problem we have is the players. They never want to help and only want to rush at level cap.

>>389048175
Have you tried not being a casual piece of shit who plays video games for fun?

>>389048101
go back to jacking off to your final fantasy characters

>>389048290
That's even worse, I don't play babby PvE shit.

>>389048268
And this is the problem; encouraging to go NEET to enjoy a game. You don't need to no life to enjoy an online video game. What you need is a good community with caring staff.

>>389047553

Image is outdated, Tigole aka Jeff Kaplan is now lead designer on Overwatch.

>>389048382
Guild Wars 1 had some of the best PvP i've ever experienced so what are you talking about

>>389048386
Let me guess, WoW was your first MMO.

>>389048467
Then you have fuck all experience you nostalgia goggled mouthbreathing faggot.

File: 34.png (428KB, 566x609px) Image search: [Google]

428KB, 566x609px

>>389048467
>Guild Wars 1 had some of the best PvP i've ever experienced

>>389046523
Blizzard has a monopoly on the genre.
Kill Wow and we get more/better MMOS.

>current year
>still not a single good and decently populated mmorpg
what the fuck?
No seriously, how the fuck is this possible, it just blows my mind

The lich king is KEK

>>389048519
>>389048551
Can you guys do anything but throw out insults or are you actually going to contribute to the thread?

There has never been a good MMO. There's no such thing. The concept is rotten to the core.

>>389048614
WoW is doing fine, Legion is pretty good despite whatever you may say.

File: index.jpg (6KB, 225x225px) Image search: [Google]

6KB, 225x225px

>>389048686

>>389048710
Legion is shit and has introduced some of the worst game designs to date which will be hard to get rid off in the following expacs

>>389048614
It's because people literally just make the EXACT FUCKING SAME GAME OVER AND OVER.

There is absolutely zero deviation from the "magic formula" and as a result everything is the exact same bland mess.

If there was actually some innovation again you would get good MMOs.

>>389048484
It was RO and Maple, actually. I just started WoW 1 month ago.

>>389048686
Oh, like how you contributed to the thread saying GW PvP is the best?

>>389048890
>even worse braindead grindan shit
Can't decide if I'm surprised or not.

>>389048706
>I've never played ultima online!

>>389048710

Legion has had the kitchen sink thrown at it but it's only doing slightly better than WoD in terms of player activity.

>>389048686
Well, no. It's just a ridiculous opinion. It has some of the clunkiest and most static PVP ever. The same problem occurred in Warhammer Online. You weren't really engaging your opponent in a duel but something akin to hitting each other in the head with foam swords slowly.

It felt awkward. It looked weird. And it wasn't satisfying.

>>389048965
Are you going to make an argument or fling shit just because you can be anonymous in this site?

>>389048786
Nah anon legion is fine.

There's content for literally everyone, from solo to raid there's all sorts of difficulties and rewards, pvp is dead but the balance is not that bad.

What do you want to get rid off in the following expacs?

>>389049161
I mean, that's literally what you did. How is saying your shit game is the best an argument? There is nothing to argue with but your retarded opinion.

>>389046523
The only real mmo out there is EVE.
Everything else is themepark shit.

>>389048965
>Oh, like how you contributed to the thread saying GW PvP is the best?
Atleast I'm mentioning a game. Telling me about your epic runescape PvP experience that happened in 7th grade would be better than the shit you're spouting.

>>389049057
Did you play GW1 longer than 15 minutes? I'll agree the movement is clunky but it definitely feels like a duel and creating builds that worked (either in pve or pvp) was extremely satisfying

>>389049193
legendaries
titan/war/whateverthefuck forging
timegated content
AP
fix low level balances, old content is literally useless and can only be used for sightseeing and nostalgia visits

>>389048463
Wow. I didn't know that.

>>389049438
Good job, you mentioned a game but not how to fix the genre. Standing ovation.

>>389049438
There was no large scale warfare

Hey FFXIV is okay maybe idk

>389049249
Brcause I brought up points. You just insult. No more (You)s after this.

>>389049845
>dude GW was the best game ever, GW2 is shit
What points, child?

Age of Conan baby

>>389049572

He hasn't been working on WoW since 2009.

My MMO idea:
>It's an FPS
>Except massive and multiplayer
>Not that copout "everything is P2P and lobby based with only a small handful of players ever seeing each other" either

So basically borderlands ( without all the shit borderlands is ) but MMO. Oh also have open world PvP.

>>389049606
And you've failed on both accounts. But here are my ideas:

1) Remove levels or keep the level cap really small. Every MMO seems to be about "How high can I make my characters [insert stat/level here]?"

2) Remove grinding almost entirely from aspects of the game that makes your character stronger/better. I don't mind it if its to get cosmetics/titles/whatever.

3) Remove classes or, make more of them or, make it more broad. Something like Star Wars Galaxies where there was lots of stats/customization. Or like Guild Wars 1 where you had tons of spells and the classes could achieve lots of different things.

4) Make it fun playing alone but encourage cooperation. Something like GW2 but even more so. Maybe increase drop rates when in party? stat boosts? achievements/titles? etc

this is all I could up with on the top of my head.

>>389049727
Depends on how large scale you want? There were alliance battles in GW1 that was 16v16 I think.

>>389049193
>Actually playing wow in 2017

kek. man only omega virgins still play wow

>>389049490
>legendaries
the power difference between those are less than 1% for my spec, if they can pull that off for every spec that's not an issue

>upgraded gear dropping
so you don't like that loot can roll different stats? I don't think you should be playing a loot centric game then

>timegated content
it definitely beats raiding dragon souls for 9 months, but I understand this one. At least pvp is multiple shorter seasons, which is a massive improvement

>AP
AP is cancer, true. It's easy to get rid off, but it's probably coming back with another name.

>old content
they're trying to fix that with timewalking and cosmetics, right now it's still awful but I can see it getting good in the future. It's never been the focus of the game, but this part is at the best it's ever been

>>389050904
Well yeah, I'm only in this thread to shit on all the retarded carebear wowbabbies.

>>389050342
check destiny out

>>389050974
I only play when a content patch or expansion comes out, it's pretty fun.

>>389050904
>Remove grinding almost entirely from aspects of the game that makes your character stronger/better

Progression (horizontal and/or vertical) is a massive part of the appeal of mmo's to most people.

>>389049193

Hey I got a question, my friend got me into wow on an RP server, Moon Guard. But I want to get into Rated BG's but nobody wants to do that and there's no PvP guilds. Is there a way I can do it without transferring servers?

>>389051248
You don't need grinding to progress though. Think about how single player games give you the sense of progress without grinding. Instead of rewarding a higher number, reward with unlocking more spells/skills, or maybe a new piece of armor, or some other mechanic that actually has an impact rather than "I just played for 6 hours doing the exact same thing and I went from level 39 to 40."

>>389051248
But it doesn't necessarily have to be that way. The defining factor of what makes an mmo an mmo is a large amount of players in a persistent world. The point of this thread is to spitball fresh ideas, which is the opposite of what you are doing with your comment

>What went wrong?
Data mining, every company focusing on trying to copy WoW even to this day, and WoW's death halfway through Cata due to casuals bitching endlessly about raid difficulty, killing it at its peak. Had they not bitched WoW probably still would've been rapidly growing.
On top of that, free to play and mobile games have pretty much taken over everything, there just isn't enough interest now for a subscription model or even a buy once model to make MMOs mainstream, and even when a free to play one takes off it usually dies by the end of that month due to it being shallow as fuck and overrun with pay 2 win and immersion breaking cosmetics.
>How can we fix it?
Borderline impossible. For an MMO to become mainstream in this market, you would need to:
1. Have it be free to play without being p2w, meaning it'd be operating at a loss.
2. Somehow find a way to avoid it getting datamined hardcore, which is basically impossible.
3. Implement mobile platforms somehow.
4. Find some mathematically impossible balance of being mechanically deep and casual at the same time.
Basically, it's impossible for an MMO to realistically succeed in the current market due to how it's currently set up. The only hope for now is to just give up and wait until technologies and majority opinions evolve and change for MMOs to be favorable again.
Personally I think this will happen when VR actually becomes a viable control method outside of just one-off gimmick games. Normies fucking love VR, if SAO being the most popular anime earlier this decade and Ready Player One's insane hype surrounding it is to be believed. The thought of going around and communicating in a fully immersive fantasy world is insanely appealing to the masses, but the technology just isn't developed enough to support it yet. I'd say give it a decade or two.

>>389051248
I was there at the advent of the modern MMO, the big appeal was a big open world to explore with people from all over the world there. Gear progression can exist in single player as well and it always has.

At the time the MMO was a unique thing to play with people from all over the world. Time-gated character progression was something that you paid for and tolerated to get it. But now plenty of games have a big open world. And internet play. And like I said before, character and gear progression don't require online play to occur. In fact single player games do it better because you aren't artificially time gated in order to squeeze as much money out of you as possible.
The only thing that has kept games like WoW and FF14 going are rabid fanboyism.

>>389051294
Yeah, you can do anything other than mythic raiding with people from other realms. Open your PVP tab (I think default bind is H), go to premade groups and then rated bgs. You can start your own group or join others there.

>>389051082
Isn't Destiny still team/lobby based?
I don't think there is a persistent open world where all the players exist in at the same time.

>>389050342
It still surprises me that no-one's attempted a game like this. My idea was based around Doom.

>Map is the whole of the Mars facility.
>Players spawn at the portal that connects to earth.
>There is a portal at the deepest part of the facility that connects to hell.
>Demons spawn from this portal and spread out into the facility.
>Players have to explore the facility and make it to the hell portal.
>All the time demons try to get to the earth portal.
>It plays like a regular FPS with some RPG stuff thrown in for flavour.
>If you manage to clear out and defend different parts of the facility you get different bonuses.
>For instance taking control of the comms room means you can radio other players.
>Capturing the armory means you can make plasma guns etc.
>Can have quests dynamically generate based on how the battles going.
>Boss raids will be spontaneous when a randomly powerful demon spawns.
>You can even have PvP with the flick of a switch.
>End game is to kill the Boss demon in Hell.
>The closer you get to him the more and more powerful demons that spawn.
>End result is a constant tug of war with 1000s of players.

The veteran players will end up on the frontlines, pushing the fight into hell. While the new players can get their feet by clearing out the top areas of the facility / defending different areas / supporting the veterans.

File: 1454980976264.gif (2MB, 250x188px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 250x188px

>tfw no mmo to play

File: 1502140998963.png (66KB, 1000x1000px) Image search: [Google]

66KB, 1000x1000px

How do you guys feel about MMIOs with subscription fees vs F2P MMOs with microtransactions?

Which do you prefer and why?

>>389051923
There is and there isn't. There's sort of a busy-work portion of the world where you can go and play openly. Doing tiny little errands that barely qualify as quests. And then there's the Darkness Zones, which are essentially instanced areas for strikes and what not. And some of the strikes have you travel through the open part on your way to various darkness zones.

So it does have an open world, but it's a forced afterthought.

>>389051923
It is for premade stuff and pvp. Basically, you stay in your ship or the city, then you go into the open areas to do your missions/farm and find other players. There are random events that spawn too and the players flock to it, it feels exactly like you said, although there's never more than 30 people in the screen at once.

>>389051941
This is a good idea. Fund it.
>>389052023
Prefer subscription but free to play is fine if done right

>>389052023
Subscription. People will pay if the game is good. Micro transactions inherently affect the design of the game. Subscriptions allow he game Dev to have full creative control of the design of the game without compromise

WoW fucked EVERYTHING up
EVERY MMO pre-WoW was unique and fun

>>389052023
How about an arcade inspired pricing model?

It costs you a cent to respawn.

File: ?.gif (458KB, 256x256px) Image search: [Google]

458KB, 256x256px

>>389048463
>Jeff Kaplan ruined MMOs

>>389048551
>>389048519
He's right you fucking idiots. Did you two even play GW1?

MMOs with the best PvP: GW1, L2, Aion, DAoC

>>389052023
I think P2P (pay to play) is the best model. Subscription was only required before cause servers were expensive but now that isn't the case. P2P removes the need for P2W to cover costs and keeps third world shitters from getting into the game. Or atleast helps prevent them from playing.

>>389052023
subs fund consistent, continuous development

>>389046523
Make an MMO with the social shit from sandbox MMOs like player/guild housing, territory control, and physics-based emotes with rollercoaster MMO stuff like PvE content.

File: 1502481950753.png (126KB, 800x769px) Image search: [Google]

126KB, 800x769px

>>389052697

I was looking for an mmo fix for a long time, WoW, ffxiv, GW2, Wildstar, played them all to death, tried a lot of other f2p mmos and got kinds bored, recently (strangely) I've been enjoying Warframe, which I also enjoy more than destiny, it's pretty fun, kinda mind numbing sometimes though.

>>389046523
Pokemon MMO

>>389046523
blizzard killed the genre by being too good, and then it killed itself by being shit.
everyone else is too retarded to do anything other than copy blizzard nowadays, that and developing an entire MMORPG from scratch takes like 300 billion dollars.
>>389048706
there is nothing wrong with the conecpt. when they aren't just trying to be WOW clones, mmo's can be great. WOW ruined the genre and then itself.

>>389052697
That's actually interesting.
Make it have very quick progression ( like, achievable in a week of casual play )
You get a few free respawns a day but after that it starts costing resources
Too bad you don't want a disincentive for players to play your damn game, so it isn't a sustainable model.

File: gun.jpg (44KB, 450x300px) Image search: [Google]

44KB, 450x300px

>tfw all you wanted is a spiritual GW1 sequel with a similar skill system and smoother movement/controls
>tfw there is no such game
>tfw there will never be such game

Why can't there just be an mmo with the same combat as mount and blade. Literally any type of mmo but with m&b combat would be transcendent

>>389049957
I am the OP, not GW2 poster. Are you having a panic attack?

>>389054208
Fuck just up the playercount to 1000 and it'll do.

>>389052615
no

>>389052697
Wasn't that the idea behind Let It Die?

File: 1500689906414.png (201KB, 757x351px) Image search: [Google]

201KB, 757x351px

>>389046523
It's impossible to fix by this point, since the mentality around the genre is ruined. The genre is built around a time sink that nobody wants to invest into, which is why we have gates and dailies to allow people to feel like they're "le epic chosen one" by being tricked into playing more often than they normally would. We even have one of the top MMOs stating they don't want people playing every day now, despite being a paid sub title.

The MMO aspect needs to be there, which should be possible with modern hardware, and the RPG element should be more than some chosen one, since having hundreds of thousands of chosen ones mean nobody is special. Sandboxs would be a solution, but it splintered off to its own genre now, and WoW is so old now that its template is considered the only viable model due to how often it has been copied, as opposed to how successful opposing titles have been, such as EVE or various F2P titles.

As it stands now, most MMOs are just single player games with instant lobbies with a brower menu, with boring RPG mechanics that have been done to death. Then any sense of mystery is stripped away instantly by people looking for quick e-fame with data mining and wiki articles. The genre needs a return to where the players generate the content in a sandbox nature that supports thousands of players, or the genre needs a redefine, as even games like The Division and others are falling into the game genre these days due to how basic the MMO field has become.

>>389054797
Basically, as well as TOR in certain circumstances.

>>389054665
>GW1
>EQ
>Ultima
>Lineage
>FFXI
>DAoC
>SWG
I could go on. WoW standardized the genre and turned it into streamlined bullshit where every game was the same thing.

>>389052023
Buy to play + minor cosmetics micro-transactions like spell cosmetics mods or mount cosmetic mods.

Best model imo.

File: 1504106817388.png (173KB, 2688x2688px) Image search: [Google]

173KB, 2688x2688px

>>389052697
>play
>die
>uninstall

File: title_banner_compressed.png (970KB, 2704x1080px) Image search: [Google]

970KB, 2704x1080px

Some MMOs are trying to innovate and find the next new paradigm that could breathe life into the genre. Crowfall, for example, is built around specific campaigns of varying length of time (anywhere from a week or two to a few months) in different worlds. As the campaign wears on, the world becomes more and more dangerous until the end, when the world is destroyed and your character reaps the spoils of their attempted conquest before moving on to the next campaign.

No one is chasing the WoW formula anymore, because everyone acknowledges that not only can nothing stop WoW except WoW itself, but also because the formula has run its course. MMOs are being forced to innovate to find the genre's next big break.

Of course, there's also Destiny/The Division/Anthem to be considered, but that's its own can of worms.

>>389055584
That would be a good slogan for the game, actually.

>>389048101
Go back to your private server of your dead game old man

>>389055609
>No one is chasing the WoW formula anymore,
FFXIV and GW2

Is Bless Online still a thing? I liked the races and idea.

>>389056263
it's being revamped like FFXIV because of the huge backlash at launch against the combat

>>389046523
>What went wrong?
-Copypasting everything from WoW
-No real gameplay outside of high-level content
-Catering to casuals which removes all sense of accomplishment from the game.
-Guides for everything.
-Micro-transactions
>How do we fix them?
Get some kid from Africa who has never played a video game design one.
Maybe he'll come up with something original.
It's been over 10 years since WoW came out, when will devs learn that they can make something new. Jesus.

>>389056419
Any links or comments about what they are changing? FFXIV's slow GCD was way too much for me, even at level 70. So slow.

>>389056794
nah I mean like how FFXIV was shit at launch and they made an entirely new game called A Realm Reborn, not as if they're copying FFXIV

>>389056602
>It's been over 10 years since WoW came out, when will devs learn that they can make something new. Jesus.

But anon, that's why we have Overwatch now. If it wasn't for Blizzard's best and brightest working on a different MMO to succeed WoW, just to fail repeatedly internally and realize WoW is the best cash grab they have, we wouldn't have Overwatch from the scrapped remains of Titan.

>>389055493
GW1 came out after WoW

File: 1459212442489.gif (1MB, 500x536px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 500x536px

>>389046523
remake AoR with skaven and decent performance
bam, the MMO genre is saved

I still play EQ on a progression server. Shit is fun

:)

>multiplayer rpg where playing solo is a better rewarding thing to do
>guides for everything, from how to build your character to how to kill x boss
>actual group content that requires a group are often only raids, 5 men groups content doesn't mean anything anymore
>open world is only used to grinding to max level instead of having actual hard content for players to gather arround and accomplish together
>cash shops
>simply not fun to play at all
these are the issues that i find to be common to mmos

>>389056865
You have it backwards. FFXIV was good at launch, but the people demanded yet another WoW clone. Thus, they made it so and A Realm Reborn was developed.

>>389048614
Old School Runescape and The Elder Scrolls Online are doing fine, can't say the same about RS3

>>389046523
You grew up

>>389046523
How to make a REALLY good mmo

First you need to make a really good rts series, really good because you need to attract the nerds, not the normies but nerds. Then give give them the tools to create a community, now once these nerds get together they will create so much OC god tier content, an esports scene, artwork, storys, etc. Then hit them with an mmo, these nerds will hype and sell your game better then and billion dollar marketing firm.

Now, this is when the normies will come in, atracted by the works of the nerds they will flood the game. And for about 3 years you will have the perfect game, nerds doing all the brick laying and normies making your game socially acceptable. At this point the normies will tire of the nerds and drive them out, but it doesn't matter, all the content they created will be always be new to someone and reposted on forums, so they are of no more use. Now all you have to do is ride the money train wave for the next 10 years.

>>389046827
>>389047132
If the gameplay is fun, what criticism is there in datamining and quest helpers? Levels are unnecessary, so the whole critique seems like lore / extra content discussion.

Underproductive / 10.

File: 1501075757263.png (174KB, 631x342px) Image search: [Google]

174KB, 631x342px

>>389052023
Buy the box and create a cash shop with cosmetics. People eat that shit up and it doesn't affect anything.