Is this accurate?

>OLD GAME GOOD
>NEW GAME SHIT
Yep seems like your typical contrarian fag post

Yeah but HL2 is a shit game so you're comparing a the walking dirahea that seeped from your mom's hair anus last night to the droopy wet slug you pushed out a few minutes ago.

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>>389039490
>>389039489

>>389039489
>>389039490
>cancer

>>389039405
player agency is good for open world games, but terrible for linear story games.

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>>389039489
>>389039490
nu /v/

>>389039405
>using hl2 as some kind of golden standard

>>389039807
if hl2 isnt a gold standard then what is?

>>389039489

It's not a contrarian point, though. To be contrarian is to be contrary for the sake of it, but this is actually a good example of how the game design of Bioshock Infinite is actually robbing the player of true agency while everyone praises it for being a masterful display of player agency. Player agency is supposed to be actual free will of the player to act as he sees fit, but these days people just think any forced binary choice or false sense of tension in a completely safe scenario is "player agency"

>>389039489
Yeah, but for literally the first time ever they've actually made a fair comparison. I think they're overstating the importance of the point they're making, but they are, at least, correct in making it.

Which kind of makes you the contrarian, now.

>undirected interaction
>in a video game
lol

>>389039735

HL2 is a linear story game that values and provides player agency to tremendous effect, though.

>>389039405
Pretty much.

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>>389039490
>graphic poop analogies

>>389039405
Yes Bioshock Infinite is overrated as fuck

>>389039489
but the points he makes are actually incredibly important. actual skill and interaction vs stale as fuck button promps

When theres no game over, theres no real challenge, and no real game

>>389040094
>anal-ogies

>>389040378
gotem

>>389039405
hl2 is nothing special. stop this shit.

>>389039405
i think perhaps you need a bit of both in the second example, because often the player is not thinking of their 'fear of falling,' they're thinking about when their last save was or whatever, so although the scene is 'tense' it doesn't have much to do with the narrative.

anyway booker might have fallen off there, it just would have been scripted.

>>389039405
I noticed this happens in other game genres as well, where the devs add concrete "rules" to achieve the design they want instead of building a system in which the design manifests itself.

>>389040518
To be fair, nowhere in the Op it is implied that HL2 is good.
Op is stating the difference between the two systems of "choice" and two sections similar in concept.
He's implying HL2 is better, not necessarily good.

>>389040583
also it may be that you don't want the player to fall off there. because maybe you want that part to last 15 seconds or something and if some retard is failing a jump or something for 5 minutes then they won't get the proper impact from the more important scene behind that door.

>>389040583
if you fall off the bridge in hl2 you respawn right back on the bridge
t. only person itt to play hl2

>>389040841
How about no. You die and you have to load the game, game autosaved on the start of the bridge, if you saved on the passage youll restart in the passage.
t. a person who have REALLY played hl2

>>389040841
Surely you meant 'you respawn at your last save point'

>>389040841
>>389041030
I don't know any of this.
t. a person who played HL2 but wasn't bad enough to fall off the bridge

>>389041159
Nobody fell from that fucking bridge, it was trivial, just making a point against someone who didn't play the game and want to fit in at all cost.

>>389041030
>>389041031
game autosaves as soon as you enter the bridge area so falling off is like a 15 second penalty

>>389040236
>muh game overs
Arcades aren't coming back, gramps. Best deal with it.

>>389040236
>When theres no game over, theres no real challenge, and no real game

I disagree with this, I think death is currently the mechanic that is consistently the best we've come up with for providing challenge to the player, but I think we can, and have, come up with better ways to provide real challenge. Because forcing you to retread a portion of the game you have already successfully beaten, i.e. the part leading up to the part you failed at, will almost ALWAYS be a terrible thing the makes the experience worse. RPG's are the worst offenders for this. Beat 3 of bosses forms only to die to his fourth? Guess you're doing it all over again. In this scenario, instead of just dying you could do something where you now have to go on an optional quest to find a McGuffin that will weaken his fourth form, the penalty for death being that you now have to do this to proceed, or that you simply have to find a new way to come at the boss because they've now moved locations or something.

The main point is that failure should always be a real and present fear to provide a challenge, but that failure should not lead into a lack of content that degrades the experience.

tl:dr Death: Content->Failure to succeed->No content
A better solution: Content->Failure to succeed->More content that forces you to take a different route than you would take on being successful

>>389039929
half-life

>>389039405
great image i agree with all of it

game journos are hacks

>>389040816
If your story completely falls apart in the face of the player's will then you should have used it for literally any other story telling medium instead.
A game is not a vehicle to deliver cutscenes. If the player has the ability to make something seem silly, you either need to redesign the gameplay to suit the mood you are trying to induce or you need to just accept that it will seem a little silly sometimes.

>Defending Infinite

Well there's your problem, worst game in the franchise objectively.

>Bioshock: Fantastic survival/horror and fun as hell to get all the plasmids and weapons

>Bioshock 2: Best plot by far, I was hyped from beginning to end

>Bioshock infinite: Brown and white boring shit. (and only 2 plasmid slots wtf?)

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>>389041389
the best ones are games where if you die too often the game will give you free shit to help you out

>>389041634
I find that insulting, desu

>>389041581
This.

After 1 and 2 you'd think they would have made it more interesting, The location was ok but that didn't matter when you couldn't interact with it at all and you barely see it again after the first 15 minutes.

>>389041634
Is that what you're implying that post is saying? Because if that is what you're saying I'm not sure you actually read it.

>>389040841
Isn't there also a check point at the middle?

>>389040816
Even if the player is retarded and his progression across the level is a complete shitshow, it should be a consistent shitshow through out the game so that while a competent player might see all the cutscenes and story beats when the writer intended them to, a shitty one should still get the same effect by virtue of being consistently shitty through out even if the over all time between cutscenes and plot is greater than a competent player's time between cutscenes.

>>389041389
>RPG's are the worst offenders for this. Beat 3 of bosses forms only to die to his fourth? Guess you're doing it all over again.
Just about every RPG has a save point right before a boss. After dying once you should be able to analyze what the boss is doing and create a strategy to overcome it. It's not a significant time loss.

>>389039405
I love how everyone conveniently forgets the airboat portion of HL2. Even though it was obnoxiously long and horrendously paced.

>>389041982
The airboat portion is is literally one of my favorite parts. The atmosphere it sets up is so on-point. It adds a lot to the whole feels of HL2.

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>>389039489
>>389039490

>>389041389
The best experience I had in a while was replaying Crash 1 with it's janky save system. On the last island I only got a save point at the very last opportunity. Crazy tension

ok listen here kiddies. Both half life games were revolutionary at the time of release and are still incredibly fun to play 15-20 years after release. Half life 2's graphics still hold up against countless shitty early access games and unfinished EA garbage.

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>hl2 has garbage shooting
>bs has great shooting

Get fucked

>>389042074
the coast was the worst because the jeep handled like roasted shit, then they take the jeep away and you're forced to use the fucking antlions

>>389042239
I'm not saying its a bad system, I'm saying that I disagree with assertion that its the BEST system in all situations, and honestly, platformers are kind of an exception. They're so simplistic and replayable that it'd be kind of pointless to develop a better system. For example, Super Meat Boy's death system is one of it's best assets, and what makes that game so fun, same with Hotline Miami.

The picture is just using HL2 as an example, faggots. Whether you like the game or not it does give players more agency then Infinite. The point here is that the game reviewers are hacks that don't know what they're talking about.

>>389041982
My favorite part of HL2 is spawning obstacles to trap people

>>389041389

Only in that RPG example, you may beat the fourth form boss because you were more efficient in beating the first three, managing items, spells, health, whatever mechanic the game has to limit the player. Therefore by forcing you to replay the entire fight you show that you have learned and become better at the game.

If you're playing a platformer and keep fucking up on the first section, you shouldn't automatically just bypass it because you reached the second section. You should become EFFICIENT at it and be able to demonstrate mastery.

>>389042682
Yeah, no. Eat shit. I don't want to play the entire game every fucking time. If you do just start over after each death. I have other things to do.

>>389039489
nope contrarians dont like half life 2

>>389042891
No one said the entire fucking game. People like you are why companies think it's okay to hand hold through an entire fucking game so the babies don't get stuck and stop playing their shitty games.

>>389039489
>I use words I don't understand
Yep seems like your typical redditor post.

>>389039405
Yes. Infinite got praised to hell and back and it is the worst game within its own series.