Is it possible to make a weapon durability system not shit?

>>389004848
Yes, by not having a weapon durability system.

"nag mechanics" can never be good. It adds nothing to the experience except to make you constantly worry about what's going to break, and when. Literally anxiety: the mechanic.

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>>389005375
FUCKING
THIIIIIIIIIIISSSSS
everytime a game introduces durability I want to kill myself

>>389004848
Fallout NV did it fine. Not sure about F3 because I haven't played in a while.

I just use Cheat Engine to freeze the durability value

Before this thread gets too long, I have to say that Weapon Durability systems by themselves are not bad. If it's part of the game, it's part of the game. It's bullshit that Jim Sterling took off like a full point in his Zelda review just because it had a weapon durability system. That's bullshit, because he didn't evaluate the system within the context of the game that it was in, he just hates weapons durability systems in general for no good god damn reason.

I don't find weapon durability systems annoying, I can see why they are useful. It's bullshit, if you can just use a super overpowered weapon all the time, because it never goes away.

And if you start arguing with me, saying shit like, "OH MAN, MY SWORD BEING AS BRITTLE AS A RUSTED CAN OPENER ISN'T REALISTIC," you can fuck right off, because videogames aren't supposed to be realistic. If they were, you would break your leg in Fallout and then have to retire your adventuring days and get a horrible infection and die.

Go fuck yourselves.

I downloaded a mod that keeps weapons from degrading
The condition you get weapons at is the same though, so repair is still useful for bringing a weapon to full.

>>389005375
fpbp

>>389004848
What was wrong with how Fallout 3 did it?

I mean, aside from NOT giving you the option to use the broken weapons as melee weapons.

>>389005971
>It's bullshit, if you can just use a super overpowered weapon all the time, because it never goes away.

The proper way to limit this is to add ammo for it, or only give it to the player for a certain time period. Durability will just make the player never use the good weapon.

Nag mechanics literally prevent you from thinking about the game, you're constantly trying to micromanage what to use when. It's not fun at all.

>>389006114
>Nag mechanics literally prevent you from thinking about the game, you're constantly trying to micromanage what to use when
I'm not the guy you're talking to, but I regard them AS game mechanics. Thinking about them isn't taking my mind off of the game. Fixing them and rationing when I use them is... part of the game.

For me, anyway.

>>389005971
Most of the times weapon durability is shit. NV could have done it waay better, STALKER was fine with it, depending on the weapon.

But the problem is that there will always be some dumb faggots like this one>>389005971 that will defend that just because their favorite game had it.

>>389004848
Yeah, the perk called Jury Rigging exists

>>389005691
>>389005375

Durability encourages using other methods or weapons, builds world lore and works as a resource. You autistic kids need to move out of your safe zones.

>>389006342
Jury Rigging is a must in NV, but it made the entire system pointless.

It would be better if it made you need at least some scrap metal or eletronics to be used to repair with another weapon.

>>389006362
or it's a shitty tedious mechanic

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>>389006362
>builds world lore

>>389006362
Weapon durability is artificial difficulty.

>>389006513
what buzzphrase is next ANTI FUN MEASURE LOL

>>389006630
That as well.

>>389006449
He's right. If there's a dead guy at the end of a long hall or tunnel, and there's a litter of corpses leading up to him, then his weapon being nearly destroyed adds to the story you're inferring by walking down that hall/tunnel up to his body. It is literally building the world and history around you. Every little piece adds to that.

If you're gonna have durability you can't have a repair system unless methods of repair are extremely rare/costly/a repaired item won't be as durable as the original item. Repairing makes durability an annoying and unnecessary feature otherwise.

>>389006730
This is the stupidest fucking thing I have ever read. Just add cosmetic damage to that weapon's texture, it will be much better 'lore' than a little bar saying if you shoot it 22 more times it will break.

It doesn't work in most systems because weapons and equipment are utterly disposable the second you find something with one extra digit on its damage value.

It's only excusable when its easy to forget about it because gear choice dramatically effects the style of play, at which point you grow attached to your items and maintaining them is a matter of love.

Durability mechanics can be decent if they're used to enhance another part of the game, such as having to scavenge for unconventional weapons and experiment in Dead Rising, or keeping a stock of different weapons and choosing the best time to use them and the best time to turn them into an exploding projectile of death in BotW. How much you personally liked the durability mechanics in each of those games may vary, but if you ripped them out the game would be quite a different experience. Fallout probably has one of the worst ways to do it, it's just a problem you throw resources at occasionally, you could throw out the whole system (and people often do) and you wouldn't lose anything but some busywork.

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What exactly is wrong with durability systems?

>>389004848
Fallout 3 just did them horribly wrong. Why the hell they decided to have weapon power degrade with durability is beyond me. All it led to was people finding what should have been powerful weapons and then discarding them as trash because they had a lower damage value than their peashooter.

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If a game is loaded down with mechanics meant to distract you, chances are you're being distracted from the game's inadequacy.

>>389004848
Breath of the wild
Makes weapon managing an actual thing and makes weapon drops never irrelevant, even if they're shit they still have use.

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>>389006816
Hey, a cosmetic thing would be nice too. As I said, every little bit adds to the story telling.

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>>389006730
Rolplaying is for Actual autists

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>>389004848
Yes

>>389005773
It was shit because can't use similar weapons.

Oh, did your Gauss Rifle break? Welp use that alien prox..you don't have Mothership ZETA? Guess you gotta find a merchant with a decent repair skill then.

>>389005375
I thought weapon durability in dark souls and bloodborne weren't too bad.
except for dark souls 2 but that's a bug anyways

But the first hour of New Vegas was great, I was scrounging for functioning guns and making the best out of every shot, that wasteland survivor schtick felt just right.

Of course 3 hours later into the game I hoarded ten thousand caps worth of gear and was shitting out weapon repair kits left and right but that's a different story.

>>389007320
Damn my eyes. I'm clearly in the wrong here, for wanting to roleplay in a roleplaying game. You're right. I'll bow out of this thread. You won the argument. I'm through here.

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>Play Oblivion
>Once I fill my inventory with valuables I head back to town to sell them, but also repair my equipment and pray at shrines
>This did wonders for immersion and getting me sucked in

>Dumb normies play Fallout 3 and REEEE at Bethesda for the shitty, low effort, system they put in that
>Durability is removed in Skyrim along with shrine bonuses that aren't complete trash giving the player no reason to go back to a city until their pack mule companions are filled up.

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>>389007341

>>389007102
New Vegas basically does the same thing. A weapon only does max damage when it's condition is over 75% when it degrades past that the weapon get weaker and weaker till it breaks

>>389004848
Like BotW.
Weapons are extremely abundant and on equal terms for the most part, encouraging you to break and throw them since you always have access to more. Certain weapons can be stronger and you save them for harder encounters, but in the end you throw them at the enemy anyway. You always have more.

Dark Souls 2's was actually pretty good. Degrades fast enough to be meaningful enough the point where you have to be careful or bring a backup with you (unlike most souls degregation which is so slow it seems pointless), but doesn't cost any resources to repair (unless you break it), it's just something you have to pay attention to until you get to the next bonfire.

The absolute worst way to do degradation is when the weapon/armor loses effectiveness at it degrades. Thanks for compelling me to autistically keep that goddamn thing in perfect condition at all times video game, because now I'm going to fucking do it.

>>389004848
There is nothing wrong with durability in certain games, such as survival games or certain rpgs. I say that you can make an argument for durability to be taken out of Fallout, which it has been, since Fallout has never really been a survival game, other than the Bethesda ones, but they failed at at that by giving you too many resources. weapon durability encourages you to change your gameplay and think about what your course of action will be. Examples can be:
>Do I use this minigun to mow down trash mobs, wearing it down and having to repair it later, or do I save it for something stronger?
>Shit, my OP shotgun broke, I have to switch to a shitty revolver in order to survive
>Is it worth wasting money repairing this gun, or do I just sell it
And so on. Only casuals want weapon durability because "it's annoying". Go play call of duty.

>>389007593
>Taking rollplaying games seriously
If you want to have some fun barbie doll to put your feelings into maybe you should stop playing games and do something productive with your time. Videogames are for children

I'm fine with weapon durability and degradation and wouldn't mind if it was gone, but armor durability and degradation should always be implemented.

>>389006362
>Durability encourages using other methods or weapons
Literally never happens.

>>389007692
The damage dropoff is much less aggressive in NV, though. 3 had even the best weapons become practically useless near the end of their durability.

>>389007913
>>Do I use this minigun to mow down trash mobs, wearing it down and having to repair it later, or do I save it for something stronger?
What actually happens: You never use the minigun
>>Shit, my OP shotgun broke, I have to switch to a shitty revolver in order to survive
What actually happens: You never use OP shotgun

>>389008102
Not everyone is as autistic as you my man. I bet you're the guy that holds on to all his elixirs/mega-potions and goes into the final boss with 99 items.

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>tfw I hate alot of things about Fallout 4, but im glad as fuck that they got rid of weapon/armor condition

If they really really want durability in their game just do something like having this:

>Iron sword is basic weapon in game
>instead of having "durability", you just find different variants of this sword in varying conditions, and they cant be repaired, can only be sold
>can find these variants throughout the game
>"broken iron sword" does 1 damage
>"rusted iron sword" does 2 damage
>"beat up iron sword" does 4 damage
>"good condition iron sword" does 6 damage
>"mint condition iron sword" does 8 damage

>shitty trash ones all over the place, and suddenly finding a mint condition one is a huge fucking deal

>>389007118
this

>>389004848
Most of what applies to durability systems being shit belongs to every other survival element like hunger or thirst, in that its just a meter that goes down, when it gets low it annoys you, and takes all of 10 seconds to fix with an item. There is no depth in these systems, even though I believe it could, its also a double edged sword to give it depth as added complexity somewhat gets in the way of gameplay

Say instead of a general durability meter, certain parts of the gun break and you had to find them or break apart other guns for their parts, and will this adding depth, you're forcing the player into menu after menu and taking them out of the actual game.

>>389007118
But every game is meant to distract you from the inadequacy of being meaningless wastes of time

>>389008245
That just sounds like a way to needlessly clutter your inventory, and if you have a rare Iron sword nobody will care about it by the time they find one they will have a basic Steel that is better.

>>389004848
I actually really liked the one in Far Cry 2 where your guns would jam if you didn't take care of them. I don't remember ever getting attached to a single gun in that game though. I think the main problem with Bethesda's way is that it goes too fast and there isn't any interesting mechanic there except "you can't use this now".

>>389004848
Yes, by making crafting more important so the better the materials you use the more resistant weapons are to damage. It's that fucking simple. Underrail did it and it was cash.

Durability is fine in the right sort of game. Mixing it with the "exploration and loot is everything" Bethesda style is just a terrible idea.

>Fallout 1
>open random locker
>SMG
>holy shit moment, you're now considerably more powerful if you know how to use it and have the ammo

>Fallout 3
>find minigun
>it does fuckall damage due to condition but still weighs the same
>won't fire for more than a couple encounters
>basically junk but really enticing at low levels

It was an excuse for them to not balance their fucking loot.

Have different weapon parts degrade differently, and you need certain supplies to properly clean your weapons. Example:

>Ejecting port
>Trigger housing
>Firing pin
>Barrel
>Reloading mechanism
>Sights

>Shoot a shotgun 50 times
>Barrel is starting to wear down
>Need a proper cleaning kit, gun oil, a rag, and bore cleaner to fix it. You can get away with only using gun oil if your gun keeps jamming, but it's only a temporary fix
>You can choose to clean only the barrel, or field strip and clean the whole shotgun, but both methods are done in real-time and require you to stop and properly maintain your weapons
>Different ammo types degrade in different ways; Certain ammo brands will be better than other brands and will affect your gun differently
>If your gun sustains heavy damage (Ex: Barrel explodes), you have to replace the part entirely
>A skilled player can use various items in the world to fix/replace certain parts of the gun, with varying results

>>389007610
Not to mention the charges on the Switch Axe.

>Not reloading your axe

>>389009040
The issue with how Bethesda did it is that they have two systems that serve the same purpose. Ammunition and durability. Ammunition is the right way to restrict use of a powerful gun early-game. Durability just makes it worthless because it doesn't do damage worth the effort anyway.

>>389009092
More busywork, just what videogames need.

>>389008935
The alt animations were a nice touch too.

>>389009187
Good point and well said m8

Bethesda is a bunch of amateurs.

>>389009419
The worst part is that their use of durability even trains players out of using some types of equipment and weapons. Because the fucked up suits of power armor and low durability energy weapons you find early game are basically worthless. They take up the same weight, are fragile as fuck and don't do nearly the same damage or offer nearly the same protection. So after the first laser weapons and power armor suits you run into are worthless, why would you bother with them later?

>>389009092
that would be even more tedious than what most games do

ITT: retarded casuals who hate any mechanics that add more depth to a game and demand the player pay attention to anything besides mindless combat and looting

>>389010182
>depth
>pausing the game every 30 seconds to click things
Stay away from good genres, mouthbreather.

>>389010182
>retarded casuals who hate any mechanics that add more depth to a game

The incredible depth involved in opening the equipment screen and swapping to a non broken weapon
Weapon durability: for smart gamers only!

>>389007320
die

It works perfectly for Dead Rising since your "weapons" are just random shit you find littered around the mall. Half the fun of the game is having to think on the fly with your inventory.

>>389004848
Make it like an oil change
have the weapon slowly but unnoticeably do less damage with the maximum in damage reduction somewhere around ~17% but that being a worst case "haven't repaired it ever" scenario.
It'll keep maintaince and number autists happy and people who dont care wolnt be that badly affected.

>>389006362
all it does is encourage hoarding

>>389007916
>rollplaying
you mean like katamari?

>>389004848
Yes. Fire Emblem and Monster Hunter come to mind. That being said, 90% of the time it's just tedious bullshit tacked onto the game because all the cool kids are doing it or because the devs are retarded and can't into balance.

>>389010823
Oh, and it doesn't hurt that once you level up a bit you actually have great unarmed options too.

>>389011184
Dropkick a best

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>>389011256
>not going full spin2win

>>389005773
3 was the same but without the thresholds of 75% for weapons and 50% for armor, so as soon as your gear starts degrading its stats will decrease.

>>389009812
Because repairing things with caps costs way too many caps to be viable. Especially rarer and more advanced items. Or did you forget that there was a repair skill in fallout?

Also the post you were replying to was sarcastically calling you a retard and you're just giving him more ammo. I thought the irony was too delicious not to let you know.

>>389011665
>not to let you know.
You don't seem to be very good at this.

>>389011665
Everyone calls Bethesda amateurish, Todd.

>>389010372
I'd tell you to stay away from good games, but seeing as most of them have a durability meter of sorts it would be redundant.

Weapon durability is only good if it does something other than annoying the player to check it every few minutes. Monster Hunter does it well by limiting durability for the mission only and affecting the strength of your attacks. STALKER does it well, too, by decreasing accuracy and increasing the chances that the gun jams and is pretty easy to repair.

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>>389004848
make it that using the same weapon over and over again makes the you gain less points so the player must improvise

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>>389004848
make it fun, make repairing weapons a method of making them better. the more damaged a weapon gets, the more exp points it gets to rank up its stats the next time you repair it.

>>389011832
>Monster Hunter does it well by limiting durability for the mission only and affecting the strength of your attacks.
It's also a single item for everything and the repair happens in real time rather than menuing bullshit.

>>389011665
Paying for repairs tends to be prohibitively expensive a lot of the time, it can cost an obscene amount. And the repair skill only helps if, you know, you have something to repair with. Jerry-rigging helps but it also favors only maintaining a few favorite guns.

>go to town
>Stock up on shit
>Go exploring
>Return to town, offload loot
>Repair gear and restock
Why is that so hard?

>>389004848
I enjoyed STALKER'S system. It is the only one I enjoyed.

>>389011748
Are you nitpicking my grammar now? Clearly you have nothing to back up your claims. Not to mention that
>not to let you know
is in context just as grammatically correct as
>to not let you know
So your attack is a failure on both fronts.

>>389012116
If you don't understand what I was implying there, you may in fact be autistic.

>>389012050
Redundant post, but thanks for agreeing with me regardless.

>>389004848
I'd be fine with it if when you find weapons they have varying durability that can impact performance, but when you repair your weapons they won't lose durability after you use them.

>>389012605
That would be alright.

>>389012605
Why not just change that to having the player identify the weapon instead to see its stats?

>>389012158
I understood what you were implying, I just gave you the benefit of the doubt in assuming you couldn't possibly be that stupid. It's basic English, my 6 year old niece could interpret my simple sentence whereas you cannot.
>I thought the irony was too delicious not to let you know.
Letting you know of your folly is my intention, it was such a sublime display of ignorance I wanted you to be aware of it.

>>389004848
Mass Effect's heat system coupled with a chance of a stat penalty for overheats would work well I think.

>>389012792
Indeed, you appear to be retarded. My condolences, anon.

>guns don't jam if they in good condition
I hate this.

>>389007082
They make a game more tedious to play and it's never well implemented.

Some games simply encourage hoarding, some make you waste resources in repairing always the same weapon and in the worst case they remove the item from the inventory when it's broken.

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>>389005375
fpbp

>>389007349
>Guess you gotta find a merchant with a decent repair skill then.

Except they all had "fresh out of the Vault at level 1" tier repair skills

>>389013243
I always forget they're all shit. Had a mod that stopped degradation.

>>389007349
>what is jury rigging

>>389004848
yes, no repairs

>>389013243
Fuck, >>389014259 was meant for >>389014069

>>389014334
I'm talking about Fallout 3

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The durability in Dead Rising made sense, right?

>>389004848
I just realized that this scroll thing is on the wrong side of the pipboy. It's certainly better on the right.

>>389004848
Repairing shouldn't even exist in end game content. It's a chore like filling your gas tank at that point where you can only either farm the shit out of mats over and over to use the great equipment or never use the stuff at all.
It's a great mechanic to challenge the player for endurance portions of the game so you get a real high when completing levels, but for when you've already beaten the game and are just bidding your time grinding for collections its the worst thing in the world.

>>389011665
I wasn't being sarcastic, faggot. He made a good point about ammo scarcity and Bethesda is staffed by a bunch of hacks.

>>389004848
>is it possible to make a *mechanic* that conforms to my subjective definition of good?

>people on this board complain about casualizing and dumbed down games
>people on this board complain about complex mechanics and call them tedious and unnecessarily time consuming

How can one board be so shitty?

>>389014941
>complex
Anon, Fallout 3/NV did not have complex repair systems.

>>389014941
Nothing about 3D Fallout is complex.

>>389014780
He's fishing for (you)s, stop feeding him.

>>389015037
I wanted to make sure that anon knew I wasn't being a sarcastic dick

I hope you know that, anon

>>389008592
>taking them out of the actual game.
For the people that play autism sims, that menu time IS the game

>>389004848
No, it punishes you for using weapons you want to use, which is a mechanic that already exists (ammunition). But it's either a slight annoyance (most MMOs) or a major fucking headache (Farcry 2), and never adds anything to the game.

>>389009907
>>389009343
Go back to your streamlined cinematic experiences

>>389014941
it's almost like /v/ has both hardcore NEET gamers and casual redditors

They need to make it feel more rewarding to break opponents stuff than punishing to break your own. I enjoy the mechanic just because I have memories of shooting an otherwise unbeatable opponents weapon out of there hand and breaking there armor of someone earlier in a questline for when they eventually betrayed the player.

>>389004848

I wouldnt really use weapon durability... Since weapons degrade when used I'd rather have that.
The weapon degradation system would decrease your weapon's quality. Bigger weapons such as the Flamer would degrade much faster than say a pistol.
A degraded weapon would have slightly less damage and accuracy... some weapons would have a chance to jam as well?
Weapons can be restored by cleaning them (requires a workbench)

Thats how I would do weapon durability anyway

>>389006114
>Micromanagement
>Not requiring thinking
oh
ok

>>389006362
>Durability encourages using other methods or weapons
All it does is make me carry the same guns I would have used anyway and backup guns to repair to good ones, nothing more. Hell, early game NV I just use the Varmint Rifle and a shotgun of some sort and engame NV I just wander around with a suppressed sniper rifle and a shotgun and nothing else because Jury Rigging makes the shotgun incredibly easy to fix and all you need for a sniper rifle is any other gun with the title "rifle" in it or the millions of Weapon Repair Kits you get from completing Dead Money.

>>389004848
Never had an issue with Bloodborne, weapons dont really degrade fast and blood is easy to get.

It sucks in Dying Light tho. Getting the resource to repair is easy but there is a limit, three times and say goodbye to your weapon.

>>389016220
Congratulations on using the plebbiest build in all of NV and then complaining it's too easy.

>>389007082
>Encourages just hoarding everything you find to repair the good weapons you have,
>Encourages you finding the best weapons to get the job done and just hoarding them and throwing away everything else.
See: Breath of the Wild, spears are worthless compared to one-handed swords due to how quickly they break and how little damage they do, greatswords are only useful for bosses or preemptive spinning into mobs, and everything else is a gimmick that does no damage and breaks easily. I never had to care about micromanaging once I got off the Plateau since I had bombs that could kill anything that wasn't black or higher in one or two bombs that I could spam infinitely and Hinox dropped three weapons and took no time to kill at all.
>If the game has permanent weapon destruction like BotW it prevents you from actually finding any value in a weapon and so they become disposable garbage with the durability of twigs you don't care about finding.
>If the game has just degradation then it's a matter of just sticking to one or two weapons and keeping them maintained while everything else sits in your house to either repair them or for your collection.
It's just busywork and nothing more.

>>389016524
I don't care about the other weapons. They're too expensive to maintain, their ammo is expensive, they require a lot of investment, and they instantly alert everyone. Not to mention energy weapons leave shit goo piles everywhere.

>>389016615
>I don't care about the other weapons. They're too expensive to maintain, their ammo is expensive, they require a lot of investment, and they instantly alert everyone.
Read: they require even a modicum of thought and that's too much for me to muster

>>389004848
>Is it possible to make a weapon durability system not shit?

yeah by balancing the repairing aspect of it. Like make it so the PC cant fix shit themselves but can like drop it off at repair shops. Then have it so the player has to wait like 20ish minutes real time till the player can get it fully repaired.

Since usually there is general game loop of stocking up, heading out to somewhere, fighting or whatever to eventually loot the area, and then heading back to somewhere to unload and resupply or upgrade and get new equipment.

So essentially make it so the player themselves cant repair at least fully. So then a player can then will have to do without their weapon in a friendly town as it gets repaired. Since due to the real time aspect of it, depending on the type of game of course, the player can then spend time exploring and rpging it up as well as spending looted wealth to upgrade themselves.
So essentially just make shit not half assed and actually think everything out so it meshes and compliments itself well.

>>389016829
No really, how much of a pleb do you have to be to not only complain about durability, but then struggle with it in a game. I've had over 1000 hours in New Vegas and not once have I had any issues with durability. The funniest part is I use a realistic carrying weight mod too, so I'm never even carrying out more then 1 or 2 weapons, as well.

>>389016829
Or, now get this, I don't want to scrounge for ammo for 50 hours in the game alerting everything I walk past while spending tens of thousands of caps which I have to farm for and having goo bloat my save file even with unofficial patches. Hell, in NV you're lucky enough to have any ammo at all for a good 30 hours minimum, and if you help out Cass and don't kill her you lose an entire Energy Weapons vendor in Freeside. I would much rather sneak snipe than goo blast everything for less damage. You may like wandering around with your weapons nearly breaking every five seconds and having to pay thousands for ammo, but I don't.

>>389004848
Making a minigame out of it seems to help, like it does for hacking or lockpicking.

Far cry 2 done it fine

Used trash guns sold cheaply to random mercs are worn

The ones you bought from a proper arms dealer is brand new

After a long amount of time they get worn out

You can get a replacement from your storage room

When they're worn they jam a lot but you can buy manuals how to fix them quickly from jamming

After a while again they are so worn they break.

>>389004848
Yeah, you could have really immersive gun play. Make it take a while before a new/newly repaired gun starts jamming, incentivize defensive play as getting your weapon shot would total it in many cases, and just have it take a long ass time to have any real wear in between.
In fallout for instance, guns should be more scarce, you should probably only come across a handful of non-disposable guns in the map.

>>389017017
>I play as the sneaky sniper
What are some other gamer red flags?

>>389017015
>>389017017
Keep making excuses for your casual ways

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>>389017017
>not using the worst performing and ammo consuming weapons
How fucking autistic can you be ? metafag.

>>389017349
Why would you quote me and call me casual.
I'm the one calling all the retards bitching about how bad durability is as being casual.

>>389017087
To clarify I meaning make maintaining, repairing, and upgrading weapons and armor into a minigame, that ways its still interactive rather than just menus.

>>389017562
>wahh I hate anything that prevents me from wildly running and gunning as my EPIC ruthless sniper
>but you're the casual :^)

>>389017341
I have also never used any of the 50+ drugs they hand you in any of the Fallout games, even the originals.

>>389017120
>Far cry 2 done it fine
>new gun bows apart after about 6 and a half mags
lul
>When they're worn they jam a lot but you can buy manuals how to fix them quickly from jamming
nope all it does is bump up the durability by another notch or two bro. don't try and sell the game for more then its worth.

>>389017705
Breh
You're quoting the wrong anon
I never said any of that shit

>>389017732
I honestly never take drugs or potions in video games, I always hoard them, sell a fraction, and then just dump the rest after I get tired of lugging around 50 pounds of shit I'll never actually use.

>>389004848
I didn't have a problem with it in FO3 or FO NV. Though I'm glad they removed it from 4. Witcher 3 on the other hand I outright modded the durability out. W1 and 2 didn't have it didn't need. Why would W3 have it.

Dying Light I feel does this okay. I use the strongest weapon I got. Then when it breaks, I create another crazy one.

>>389017705
You're quoting the wrong guy and I get 100/100 in every stat in both F3 and NV, I just would rather sneak kill stuff for 1 bullet than 5-20 shots and waste a Stimpak. It's more fun to hoard shit than it is to run around running and gunning for me.

Silent hill games.

>>389016829
Why would you invest time into other more demanding weapons that don't give you significant benefits for it when you can get excellent results without doing so?

>>389018178
Fun.

>>389008072
I can think of New Vegas and Breath of the Wild off the top of my head. At least until the end where you have so much shit anyways that you can just pick and choose, but at the beginning, you're definitely using whatever you can get your hands on.

>>389018178
Because some people aren't minmaxing retards

Maybe have something like a Rock-Paper-scissors type of scenario? Using a sword against a heavily armored enemy is obviously a shitty idea, and doing so would damage the sword. Instead make the player switch to a club or mace which would fare better. Using the wrong weapon lowers durability, and using the right one leaves it unchanged

The only problem with this is it can be made even LESS tedious by simply having a Weak/Strong mechanic (enemy is weak to swords, durable against polearms).

>>389018251
A good answer.

>>389018359
People that minmax are far more likely to invest time into more demanding weapons to get that 7% increased damage.

>>389018413
>Make the player
Uh no sweetie that doesn't sound like a video game people would like to play.

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>>389004848
>Is it possible to make a weapon durability system not shit?
You could make it a little more dynamic instead of some flat variables
>Weapon has three breakpoints 75%, 50%, 25% and 0%
>When the weapon degradation score passes a point and random part of the gun breaks, affecting how it performs.

Say you have NV's service rifle with a scope.
>Hit 75% and now there's problem with the feed from magazine to receiver. 1 random round in a magazine will require you to pull the bolt to unjam it.
>50%, the stock or handle or snaps drastically increasing holster/unholster speed
>25%, There's a problem with the sights. A crack in the scope or bent ironsights like the Survivalists Rifle
>0%, Stiff trigger. Gun might fire a second round by accident, even if you pulled the trigger once.

These could happen in any order and pull from a large pool of defects. They hamper the player, sometimes forcing them to use the weapon differently to compensate without shaving damage off each bullet.

>>389006342
>>389006428
Jury Rigging is a trap option

>>389014069
The merchant in the Point Lookout dlc had max repair but he was the only one.

>>389006114
Ammo is exactly the same as weapon durability. It's a number which goes down when you attack and needs an outside source to go back up.

>>389017341
What's wrong with stealth sniper builds? That's often my go to build in RPGs. It's my preferred build in Fallout 2 and NV, and I'm using one right now in Underrail.

Way I see it, this type of character lets me avoid combat if I don't want to fight, start combat on my own terms, end combat quickly, and spend more time exploring and talking to NPCs. Those last two parts are usually my favourite aspects of the genre.

>>389019078
Only because of a glitch. The highest repairman without it being a glitch is in Rivet City if I remember right and they have like 65.

Durability existed in F3 to force the player to use gear they find for repairs instead of selling it all, you remove that system and you'd break the entire economy.
You guys are just screeching at the threat of your best weapon degrading when you always had multiple weapons which could do the same job and multiple ways to keep those weapons in an ok condition.
Jury Rigging completely breaks the system it ensures you're always walking around with and selling max repaired gear.

>>389019415
Jsawyer exist to fix that.

>>389019415
It was also a way to introduce "strong" weapons early

EG that laser pistol in super mart near vault101/megaton city

>>389019415
>to force the player to use gear they find for repairs
Except it was pointless since items could only be repaired with themselves with very rare exceptions so you ended up just hoarding or throwing stuff away anyway. You were better off just using Talon Company armor because it had as much DR as Combat Armor and you got 3 every encounter. Combat Shotguns dropped from them and Super Mutants and Talon Company constantly so there was never a need to switch from that, and both also drop Laser Rifles and Chinese/Assault Rifles making it really easy to just use those forever. Then once you find the unique variants you just never bother switching. You barely ever have to switch out anything in FO3 and nothing about the system would change outside of the Vault 101 and Super Duper Mart hours.

>>389019218
Because you only see normies go the stealth/assassin route to the point I just want to punch my face every time I see someone say they like playing as those.

Yes, Fire Emblem's system where repairs are impossible or close to it. Anything else is just busywork.

>>389019676
What are you talking about, laser pistols are fucking shit.

>>389019415
Durability existed in F3 because it was in Oblivion

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Here's a question to consider: Have you ever played a game without a durability system and thought to yourself while playing that it would be better with a durability system? Because I haven't.

>>389019876
Fire Emblem If

>>389019778
Compared to starter weapons it was
and it was merely an example fat man and missile launchers were in plentiful supply but were always degraded

>>389004848
Shadow of Rome is the only game I've seen with a decent weapon durability system and it was only good when combined with other factors.

Unlike many games the system goes both ways. Other than the final boss all enemies weapons can break. It was one of the things that encouraged using other weapons (the other things were weapons had enough interesting differences to be worth using even if they took it out, you could never be sure what type of weapon you would get from the crowd, and weapon choice for certain areas was limited). It helped balanced things like the Magus which would've been too strong otherwise. It rewarded good weapon usage as once you learned how to use weapons you could kill enemies in ways to ensure your weapon takes as little damage as possible.

>>389019987
It has 3 higher AR than the 10mm pistol at 100% repair level. The 10mm is easy to keep above 90% while the laser pistol is impossible to early on, meaning you'll never actually do more damage with the laser pistol until they start becoming more plentiful later on.

>>389020087
Wasn't aware people went 100% repair from the first 2 minutes of the game

>>389020156
Fallout 3's repair system doesn't require any repair skill to repair to 100%, it just requires you to find a lot of guns to repair with. 10mm pistols are very plentiful early on while laser pistols are not. Also there are much higher AR weapons available as early as the laser pistol.

>>389020214
You're confusing it with New Vegas. New Vegas lets you throw guns at the gun, 3 has you up to a certain % of the gun. Even so, early on you are swimming in 10mm pistols that it's trivial to always keep it fully repaired, and by the time you actually start finding Laser Pistols that aren't randomly placed in schools you'll already have repaired Laser Rifles and hundreds of MFC rounds thanks to Talon Company.

>>389020214
Fallout 3 is a terrible game, what else is new?

>>389020076
Oblivion, Fallout 3 and New Vegas had durability affect NPC's too. There's actually spells in Oblivion that you can use to cause other people's weapons and armor to degrade faster too.

>>389004848

I'd rather have a system where you find a weapon at a certain condition and it stays at that forever.

So a weapon can be common in shitty to moderate condition, but it's worth hunting down one in perfect condition.

Durability exists in every game up to Skyrim where it was removed. Skyrim and F4 feel much more shallow than their near identical predecessors.
Durability is a layer of depth they removed I don't see how you guys can call out every other layer yet cheer for the removal of this one.

>>389020214
>>389020461

Why do you think i emphasize with the word "strong"
I used the laser pistol as a example because its one of the early weapons you can find

>>389020461
Uh no, New Vegas only lets you repair something up to a percentage of the gun. The only way you can 100% a weapon is by bringing it to that guy at the NCR outpost, because even with 100 repair skill you can't truly and completely repair a weapon.

>>389020635
Interesting idea, however sounds like it could be bypassed via savescumming

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>>389019876
>Have you ever played a game without a durability system and thought to yourself while playing that it would be better with a durability system? Because I haven't.

>>389019876
Fallout 4.

>>389020731

Don't make them randomly generated.

Most enemy NPCs use shit to moderate condition, good ones being used by elite enemies and perfect condition found either as dungeon rewards or fucking overpriced in shops.

>>389020723
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Repair#Fallout_3

>>389020723
Nah, New Vegas took out the repair requirement for repairing items to 100% (it still affects repair efficiency though), and instead made it non-mandatory but still useful by letting you use it to craft items.

>>389020820
Now that's bullshit, the lack of weapon durability is literally the only mechanic 4 got right.

>>389020654
The irony of this post is that nobody cared when there was no durability system back in the first two Fallout games.

>>389021172
Wrong.
>>389021235
Weapons were also a lot less common in F1 and 2 since every enemy doesn't drop them every time.

>>389019876
actually never

thanks for mobilizing my macadamias anon

>>389021235
The irony of your post is that you seem to have not realize anon was talking about Bethesda games only.

>>389004848
>autismos will never ever be able to enjoy games with durability mechanics
This makes them great by default.

>>389004848
Durability is fucking great.

I love when games force me to adapt or use tools I'm not comfortable with out of necessity, it strengthens my overall skill at the game and puts me in situations I'd never put myself in.

That's fun.

>>389020654
>Durability is a layer of depth
That's a bit of a stretch. If something has 'depth' it has a notable effect on the way you play the game. In Fire Emblem durability makes you ration out weapons and discourages you from leaning too hard on your rare Sword of ShitKicking. In Monster Hunter sharpness is something you consider when choosing a weapon, sharpening in a fight takes a while and you might get a free ride on a cart if you choose a bad time and place to sharpen. Aside from an easy means of gimping certain weapons early game the only thing the Fallout repair system resulted in was you occasionally popping into a menu to throw money/resources at your chosen gun to make it feel better so it could do more damage. The worst thing about them removing the repair skill was that they didn't replace it with something more substantial, but they probably would have fucked that up anyway so I guess it's for the best (although maybe you can argue that it was replaced with the crafting system).

>>389007349
>what is weapon repair kit

How about this me boyos:
Weapons are made from certain parts
Each part's durability wears down using the weapon in different ways
When a part's durability is lowered, you can repair and improve it
You get more bang for your buck when improving parts if they're worn down more

>>389007341
underated post

mh is good because it's actually part of the gameplay and not some chore you have to go into menu to fix every 10 minutes

but fuck the hunger system in mh. not impactful enough to really matter but just impactful enough to be annoying.

>>389006114
>Durability will just make the player never use the good weapon
You do realise that this weird compulsion of yours that I share isn't universal to all video game players, right?

Although New Vegas at least occasionally had the potential to present challenges that FORCED you to fall back on your trump cards. In F3 I never used a single chem, in NV a Legion attack party would hit me in the middle of the Wasteland and I'd be desperately chugging every drug in my satchel just to make it out alive.

>>389021776
Were they in fallout 3?
I can't remember if you could make them as easy either.

>>389021770
It was a layer of depth though. The repair system ensured that looted weapons were rarely (and in NV never) useless loot that you just skipped by if you invested in the stat. It effectively gave you a similar bonus to barter - instead of spending a substantial amount of caps to repair you could use scrap weapons instead of selling them for a measly amount of caps or just leaving them because carrying them around isn't worth the weight.
This especially applied in NV where it was the only way to maximise effectiveness of rare weapons since they would be irreparable without investing in enough repair for Jury Rigging and weapon repair kits.

>>389021172
Personally I thought it was a good idea to add a sprint that uses AP, it's a pretty elegant way of giving melee builds some extra maneuverability which they really needed in 3/NV.

>>389021274
>Weapons were also a lot less common in F1 and 2 since every enemy doesn't drop them every time.
It's almost like this is a better system or something. Have weapons actually be kind of scarce instead of arbitrarily limiting the player's ability to use the weapons they already have.

>>389021658
So?

>>389021235
There was only one suit of power armour in Fallout and players cherished it. In F3 Power Armour is everywhere so to make players care at all they needed the durability system to give spare suits some form of value.
This extends in the same way to weapons and other clothes as well.
NV fucked this up by having the Jury Rigging perk let you fix anything with nearly anything else. F4 fucked it up further by removing the system, keeping the gear everywhere but then try to substitute it with a legendary system. A system which made anything that wasn't legendary not worth killing.

>>389022063
Heavy attacks using AP was also good

>>389022063
>It's almost like this is a better system or something. Have weapons actually be kind of scarce instead of arbitrarily limiting the player's ability to use the weapons they already have.
I didn't say it wasn't, but in a system where enemies always drop their guns, you either never give enemies good weapons to mitigate the chance of getting a good weapon early due to a powerful enemy dying from a bug/exploit, or you make dropped weapons unobtainable which would make people bitch about your game being "dated" and would be financial suicide.

>>389022063
>I thought it was a good idea to add a sprint that uses AP
I imagine that fucks up people who play with VATS a lot. It was also stolen from mods.

>>389022063
>it's a pretty elegant way of giving melee builds some extra maneuverability which they really needed in 3/NV.
Yeah it was pretty elegant copying day 1 F3 mods, especially in a game where melee builds are dogshit unplayable more than any other game in the series

>>389021956
Was about to say this, thanks for abdicating me of that responsibility.
Not to mention it's far less cumbersome than something like Mechwarrior 4 where I would also argue the cumbersome repair/buy/sell system makes sense in the context and works well as the game mimics the concept of a sim.

>>389022063
>Have weapons actually be kind of scarce
Bethesda's open world games are based on the premise you can pick up and use anything. You take that away by making enemy weapons break on death and you'll piss off fans. You could also give every enemy low tier weapons but then the player wouldn't regard them as a threat.

>>389022113
>>389022324
>or you make dropped weapons unobtainable which would make people bitch about your game being "dated" and would be financial suicide.
>Bethesda's open world games are based on the premise you can pick up and use anything. You take that away by making enemy weapons break on death and you'll piss off fans. You could also give every enemy low tier weapons but then the player wouldn't regard them as a threat.
So it's not that durability systems are a good idea or that alternatives are worse, it's that Bethesda's shitty fanbase can't actually appreciate good game design and Bethesda has to appeal to the lowest common denominator?
Sounds about right.

>>389008245
This weapon offends me.

>>389022147
>melee builds are dogshit unplayable more than any other game in the series
You can use blitz to teleport around one-shotting everything. How bad are you?

>>389022554
Every fucking build is easy mode oneshotting everything in F4, it's about how it feels
>all melee weapons now have one (1) power attack only, no directional attacks at all
>all weapons have a weird delay after attacking instead of swings blending into each other
>power attacks lock you into an animation with no control whatsoever over your movement
>very, very, very small variety of melee weapons and upgrades for them, even smaller variety for unarmed weapons (also can't use unarmed weapons with certain armor)
Melee/unarmed just felt like complete garbage in F4 and was utterly unfun in every way.

>>389022509
>So it's not that durability systems are a good idea or that alternatives are worse, it's that Bethesda's shitty fanbase can't actually appreciate good game design and Bethesda has to appeal to the lowest common denominator?
Yes, that's exactly my point. Although I think NV did a good job having the high points of both systems, since unique weapons are scarce like power weapons in the first two games were, and give that same feeling of accomplishment when you stumble on one.

New Vegas is meant to be as much a post-apoc sim as it is meant to be a fun, low-pressure RPG that F3 was. You're supposed to have to make tough choices and plan carefully in order to get by. That said, for the people who did just want F3 with better writing, they should have made weapon durability an optional mechanic that turns on with hardcore mode.

I like weapon durability in NV. Not played many other games with it. But when I'm immersing myself in the character of a survivor of the wasteland, I like having these kinds of factors to take into account. I like having to marshal my inventory based on the weight of my guns and ammunition, I like having to ration out food and water supplies.

People like different things, not every game is meant to be pure wish fulfillment like F3 and Skyrim.

>>389018293
>single player games
There is always a meta. Deviating from the meta means you're stupid.

>>389005809
>dying light adds vac
It's like they didn't want people to play multiplayer

>>389019178
Except the weapon is always there

>>389021765
this this this

>>389023589
A weapon with 0 durability is as useful as a gun without bullets in these games.

>>389023861
>0 durability
>he really thinks that's how things work

nv did it beautifully

This is literally the same shit as rested Xp in world of warcraft.

If you call it a penalty or fluff it in a negative way, players hate it.

If you call it a bonus and give players an advantage, they'll love it.

At towns you can sharpen your weapons and make them stronger, which degrades after they deal enough hits or deal enough damage. Just replace the flat damage you would have had a 'fully repaired' weapon do to the honed weapon version, or keep the 'normal' weapon damage to 15%-30% lower then that. Call it a hone weapon bonus and encourage players to do it.

It's literally that easy.

>>389004848

Only if you have a direct cause to that durability loss outside of basic use, unless your game doesn't focus on combat as a basic mechanic.

Using a gun and get melee'd = gun needs to be repaired. Trying to use your shield on unblockables = needing to repair shield. That kind of shit.

>>389008167
This is me

Please make it stop

>>389017810
There are two manuals for each gun. Guns break after much more mags than that.

Don't be shitting on a game you clearly haven't played and finished, retard.

>>389006448

So is walking from place to place instead of fast traveling. Or eat/sleep mechanics. Or any kind of variable damage.

>hit wall
>lose 20% of weapon durability
hmmmmmmm

>pull the sword of creation that rent the heaven and earth out of its pedestal at the bottom of the hell void after a long journey that cost the lives of all of your allies
>breaks 30 minutes later
>reload
>never use it because you don't want it to break

it depends on the approach the game is taking

the issue with fallout 3's durability system is that there's no way to repair certain guns outside of alien epoxy or vendors even if you're a master repairman with an intelligence of eight billion, stalker SoC has a similar problem of having no way to repair anything but i kind of feel that the game is short enough in vanilla that it's not overly to its detriment

zelda is fine
new vegas is fine

>>389008245
this is a really dumb system and i'm glad you're not in charge of shit at bethesda, it's just a generic loot rarity system but with more trash loot

FO4 removing weapon durability was honestly to its detriment because in prior fallout games super overpowered weapons were partially balanced by being fragile, now almost all weapons save for ~rad legendaries~ feel like shit

>>389004848
Durability should affect anything except the damage. Spread, aim is off, reloading is slower, I don't know if it's realistic but it makes more sense and it's something you can work around.

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>>389004848
Yes. It's called Monster Hunter.
Shitters, the lot of you.

>>389004848
state of decay and stalker
farcry2 almost had it right except they made every weapon dropped by enemies drop in the worst possible condition instead of randomized

>>389025592
>implying sharpness is durability
nah

>have base item that never degrades
>slightly better items that need repair

>>389014390
>playing fallout 3

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>>389004848
Done

>>389026782
it wouldve been ok if you actually needed shit like duct tapes and scrap metal/electronics to use that perk instead of just hoardin all the useless guns that vaguely resemble what you want to repair

>>389021765
>I love when games force me to adapt or use tools I'm not comfortable with out of necessity

Except no one does that. Be it out of being a meta fag or just "hurr i like this gun", all durability mechanics does is make people bring multiples of the same fucking thing to either repair or replace what they were using should it break.

Don't lie to yourself. You're not fucking macgyver improvising shit as you go along, you're fucking retard reaper from overwatch carrying 50 million of the same pairs of guns instead of reloading.

>>389026782
>the best way to handle durability is to get a perk that makes the entire system completely irrelevant
Really makes you think.

>>389026782
You still needed an intact gun to fix another one.

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>ITT i cant manage and multitask for shit
you all might just have asspergers

>>389023483
If you think its fun then go for it.

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>>389028542
>fun

>>389016615
>Encourages just hoarding everything you find to repair the good weapons you have,
>Encourages you finding the best weapons to get the job done and just hoarding them and throwing away everything else.
So game encourage you to do what you should do anyway. Are you doing some speed run?

>>389027991
Its really baffles my mind how people just use couple of weapons for everything when something like a single grenade would do if used correctly.

>>389027991
The main problem behind the durability system is that it doesn't add shit to gameplay, it just adds an unnecessary and unrewarding bit of tedium to the process.

Why do you like it?

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>>389007341
I loved how weapons had different sharpness profiles.
And that there is a entire tree of weapons, meaning you might use a different type of weapon as you go to the next tier.
Its really well done.

>>389028785
>when something like a single grenade would do if used correctly.
That single grenade costs five times more than the handful of bullets needed to sneak kill the enemies.

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>>389028698
Memes arent going to convince me not to use an array of weapons for killing things efficently without having to constantly find shit to fix my single rifle with.

>>389028823
basically prevents you from becoming too powerful too soon.

It can be okay if the game is not an RPG and weapons are treated as power-ups that lasts for a few swings.

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>>389019876
If you add a special move to intentionally break weapons, so you have some way to spend your last durability, i would see nothing wrong with adding it.

>>389028823
in a game like Fallout its quite immersive, a post apocalyptic wasteland where weapon hoarding and supply gathering is actually necessary, couldnt get into FO4 for that reason because every weapon was either a pipe weapon or a pristine condition rifle

>/v/ hates weapon durability
Surprise surprise, /v/ is full of fucking casuals.

>>389020632
>Oblivion, Fallout 3 and New Vegas had durability affect NPC's too. There's actually spells in Oblivion that you can use to cause other people's weapons and armor to degrade faster too.
Its never used in a significant manner. Unless you intentionally go our of your way, you will never experience the enemey destroying its weapons or armor.
The same is true in Oblivion, even if its possible to add the Armor Reduction to a on hit weapon.

>>389020076
Thank you.
Very Much
So much so.

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>>389028935

>>389029125
What next, they will praise autoregeneration and shit on medkit option or want universal ammo instead ammo for specific weapons?

>Shoot someone's head into little gibletts
>His helmet is badly damaged and needs repair before I can use or sell it
I think that's pretty logical

>ctrl f
>"aut"
>1 out of 13

bye

>>389006362
>Durability encourages using other methods or weapons
No, it encourages me to stop whatever I'm doing to go to the nearest means of repairing my best weapon(s)

what if a boss could use magic to heat up and cool down your sword to make it weaker, so in order to defeat the boss you either need to use a bow or to use weapons made of a different material
or what if there's a smithing mechanic and weapons you make early on are shit and break quicker than other weapons
or what if there's an enemy faction who is low on funds, so when you pick up their weapon you find that it breaks quickly as it was cheaply made
or what if certain weapon match ups will always result in a broken weapon i.e. attempting to block a a war hammer attack with a katana
or what if there's an enemy who copies you and your current equipment, so having a nearly broken weapon equipped and then changing after they copy it lets you cheese that enemy
or what if games came with locational armor damage and armor damage was fair and reasonable

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>>389004848

By making a survival horror where each weapon has unique repair kit items and they are rare, forcing the player to switch from known weapons into other weapons he acquired.

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>>389021891
And why would that be better?

I liked the weapon durability of botw