DRM

Denuvo a shit

>>388910061

A few people like enjoying games while traveling, which means internet won't always be available. Some airplanes and buses have dogshit internet, but even then it might require $5 to access.

>>388910061
Fuck you, denuvo

What arguments do you have to defend DRM, opee?

>>388910646

Piracy, mainly. Now it can be cracked, naturally, but I still stand by my opinion that people should pay for their games.

>>388910807
If it can be cracked then why bother with DRM in the first place? It only seems to make their would-be customers angry, and some tend to pirate a game BECAUSE it has DRM, when they would have bought it otherwise.

>>388910903
>Would have bought it otherwise
Hahahahahah

>>388910903

Well. You don't go from 0 to 100 in one go. There will be crackable systems along the way to the perfect DRM.

>>388910061
It's just a meme because people can't pirate stuff. Even then Denuvo gets cracked pretty quickly, but people are afraid of something that can't be cracked appearing, and that they'd have to buy things like a non-criminal.

>>388911091

I'd also like to add that Denuvo was a tough one to crack and was almost perfect as far as I understood it. Wasn't it because of another unrelated leak onto their servers that made cracking possible?

>>388910061
I'll pretend you're legit.

>Internet might go down!
This happens fairly often, and when it does, it sucks. And it sucks even worse when your computer in incapable of playing any games to pass the time while the internet is down in general. If it's an online game, then you know, that's whatever, but there are many games out there that don't even NEED any multiplayer or online features that I can't play? That's not right.

>Steam might go offline!
It's not a matter of how often, it's a matter of when it does go offline. Servers just fail for seemingly no reason, through wear & tear, and through more mundane accidents like them catching on fire. You're also ignoring the possibility of steam going out of business. There is no such thing as a business "too big to fail". When steam goes down, I lose all my games, and that's it. All because DRM. I have to pray that they give advance notice and the programmers release DRM free versions for me to continue playing.

There's also the fact that steam can also forcibly remove games from your account without your consent, and then they're just gone. Doesn't matter if you have it installed or not, the DRM will check with steam, see nothing, and just fail to start.

>I might want to bring my laptop to the countryside!
I might bring my laptop to a fucking dead spot in my city, or indoors where the only thing available is public wifi, and fuck you if you think I'm connecting to that. Almost nobody owns a dongle, and it's outright silly to say "get with the times grandpa" over very outdated tech.

There's simply no reason to purchase DRM games. Go to GoG, locate the developer's website and see if they offer a DRM free copy, or just don't play the game.

>>388910061
The bigger issue is not moment to moment internet connection but what happens to these games in 10 years times when servers may be gone or limited. DRM prevents proper archival of games---this should be the number one concern of all gamers to preserve the medium for the next generation to enjoy.

We have no actual hard guarantees that Steam or Denuvo (let alone XBLA/PSN) will be functional in 2030 or if corporate interests run across the interest of gamers.

Then there is the general concern about some DRM being glorified malware, affect game performance, not being disclosed by publishers during installation, etc.

DRM does not work as a deterrent, does not convert a majority of pirates into legit users and---most important---serves as a burden on actual buyers.

>>388910903
>If it can be cracked then why bother with DRM in the first place?
Do you have a front door on your house? Why? Thieves can just break into it anyways, so you should just not bother putting a door there.

>>388911091
In computer science we have this saying
"offense always wins"

>>388911339
No one fears the repercussions of pirating.
No amount of "deterrent" works.

>>388910061
I don't want to make a hundred accounts with different publishers.

I don't want to have to install a separate DRM client

Some-people don't have fast enough connections for lan parties with online only games.

DRM includes only online multiplayer which often means single player console experience.

DRM kills local play altogether.

When DRM goes wrong, which happens all the time, it negatively affects legitimate customers, essentially DRM functions as a punishment for honest paying consumers.

>>388910061
>Be honest. How often does that happens?
U wot, m8?

>Staying with family in NY in major cities
>One house has Verizon
>Another is with AT&T
>Constantly dropping out
>During peak hours is slowed down to Australia speeds, despite providers stating that it won't
There's no real reason for DRM, especially when it impacts customers using your product.

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>>388910061
I live in a rural area, my Internet is spotty as shit. It can be down for hours sometimes. I'm sure you'll blow this off as "you don't really matter if you don't live in a city, why don't you just move out to California like a good goy?" but insulting the people you're trying to argue with isn't a good tactic to change anyone's mind.

>>388910061
>>Steam might go offline!
>Again, how often does that happen?
Now I KNOW this is bait

I love bloatware: the thread

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>>388910061
Always online is a not a argument that should be favored for. You're literally arguing for an anti consumer practice. There's also the fact that most DRM's from our past experiences have been invasive, require other clients (like ubisofts trash) cause extra stress on your system and and disc (both in trash-nuvo's case) and the fact that with recent years there's been a stigma against piracy so bad that its caused them to lash out at anyone who doesn't defend anti consumer practices.

The fact that people go out of their way to defend a corporations right to hrut relations and the end consumers ability to enjoy the product they paid for is mind numbing to me.

tl;dr DRM causes lag, is invasive, sometimes stops the user from even playing. It also hasn't in the past, doesnt now, and will never stop the pirates. It only ever hurts the end consumer. This is fact, this is not arguable.

>>388912116
>people
No, Anon. He is the corporation.

>>388910061
Kill yourself shill

>>388911480
>No amount of "deterrent" works.
Really? Cause it sure stopped billy bob down the street from making a copy. It also stopped Stacy, Chad, Jim Carry, Bill es Preston, Theodore Logan...

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>>388912404
And then anon was the corporations

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>>388910061
The point of DRM is to counter piracy. It fails. Let's just get that out of the way, it just fails. Piracy is still lively as ever right now, so there's no need for the actual consumers to go through facade of having to always stay online, being constantly spied on and playing unmoddable games for the sake something THAT FAILS.
The only company who's insistent on DRM are those who are out of touch with how people thinks and how reality actually works.
Even if you're a console gamer, even if you're an outsider you would get at least an inkling of sense of how frustrating it would feel as a consumer. This isn't really a PC issue.

the problem i have with always online is most of time the devs don't have the servers to back it up.if you're gonna force it at least have the infrastructure in place.

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>>388911091
>perfect drm

>>388910061
That's not how this works.

It's up to a company to prove to me why it should go in. DRM is unwanted and shouldn't be there, nor is there any proof it helps their sales. Frankly, I wouldn't give a shit if there were, as it's not my responsibility to take the onus of their security theater.

The idea that DRM is harmless and the default, is bullshit and shifts the onus onto a paying customer to explain why they shouldn't have to put up with unwanted software. And in same cases, malware.

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Always and forever

>>388910061
see:

>>388894981
>>388900980
>>388908082

>>388911331
This 100%. It's an issue with several old games that now require cracks to run because servers are down or the old DRM was tied to shit like physical codes or stuff in manuals that likely won't survive >20 years.

>>388910903
The more difficult it is to pirate, the less people will do it. DRM is a necessary evil in that there needs to be some barrier to entry. Normalization of piracy outright ends up forcing DRM of some kind in the long run anyways. To compete, a company must provide additional incentives (see Valve's stance here) but to maintain those incentives since they are digital, some form of DRM will exist. Unless you want a different system like advertising within the product itself, our current method is imperfect but on the right track. Denuvo is cancer, though.

>>388914306
It basically boils down to how capitalism requires artificial scarcity despite the digital age making games infinite goods. By capitalism's own tenets, infinite supply means zero value. What isn't infinite is the work people can do on it. That's why it would make sense if there were a way to collectively raise money for projects of interest, then everyone gets paid and the game is developed for what it's worth. (Like Kickstarter but with actual accountability)

Basically, it's a failing business model and no one wants to use even the slightest creativity as I just did above to fix it. They just want to browbeat consumers into submission with the idea that they're "stealing" and it's "wrong". It's all crocodile tears so companies like Acti-Blizzard can use Holland as a tax haven and funnel shitpiles of money out of the States. As for their bullshit arguments from morality, the US Supreme Court actually stated in a ruling that file sharing is never theft, conversion, or fraud. It's a fact look it up.

The rest of it is just people who've been suckered in by the system. It's scary to think an entire economic system breaks down at a fundamental level with infinite supply, so the easiest road is to namecall, deny, divert attention, morally signal, judge, and otherwise ignore actually discussing the core problems and possible solutions.

No one seems to want to acknowledge the fact that there's an obvious and easy method everyone can get paid fairly, while not trying to incorrectly charge for copying some bytes of data over the internet to you. Remember, games aren't physical media anymore and don't have that overhead cost. Devs aren't getting raises to compensate all the INSANE overhead cost cutting (see: Acti-Blizzard again). And every company is finding more ways to lobby tax shelters and cost-cutting into law so they can go on making more margin, while charging more for games (DLC/microtrans/deluxe edtns/collectors edtns)

>>388911331
Absolutely correct. And Darkspore is the first casualty. There will be many more as time marches forward from the date of intrusive DRM.

>>388912720
It's successful in that we aren't in third-world levels of 90s-early 2000s piracy where many companies didn't even attempt to enter the market since they were so rife with open piracy. Most of the people who pirate are younger or power users. There is a barrier to entry and it's enough to have people value the product. With zero DRM on anything games become PBS or god forbid, mobileshit cash shop popup advertising bullshit.

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>neo /v/ non ironically defends DRM

What happened to this place? Between console keyboard warriors and DRM paladins everyone seems to like that juicy corporate cock in their mouth.

>>388914776
You skim over the issues with your system even after admitting to one of them.
>with actual accountability
The only risk is what, not getting funded in the future? But your profits this way are set and so innovation is stifled in that innovative content that is not priced adequately must be first given our for free before a crowd is going to be willing to fund it. There is no incentive to go above and beyond to try to sell more copies. Sure the current system is borked, but you're asking for the entire system to crash in hopes that companies can prefund their shit in a lump-sum payment format like it was a building.

>>388910061
Playing Destiny for instance fucking sucks when my connection is fucky (or their servers are) and all I'm doing is playing missions single player. Not only that but it will fuck up my checkpoints too. Drm is bad.

>>388910807
That doesn't add to my experience as a consumer whatsoever. In fact pirates would make my experience better since there would be more people to talk about the game with. So how many Agents of Mayhem threads have there been past release week(and that's with the game already cracked)?

>>388910061
Fuck off faggot, you sound like Microsoft's 2013 E3 presentation.

>>388915123
DRM doesn't have to be intrusive. Who in here besides baiting OP is defending denuvo or starforce or other shitty things? If everyone could pirate openly and no takedowns of torrents existed then what incentive would anyone have to pay when the delivery of the content would be just as good if not better than a company could provide? As >>388914776
correctly states, you're advocating for a system where infinite supply exists and then assuming people will pay for it when it becomes normal that nobody does. It's in pirates best interest that mild, unintrusive and relatively easily cracked DRM be used so that they can keep pirating easily while new content is producted

DRM is gay

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>>388915362
Between this shit and the xbonex shilling I'm certain there are marketers here around the clock.

>>388915363
That just makes restriction of infinite supply digital content a cartel.
>But how do they get money?
Market already evolved with crowdfunding and the return of the old Patronage system. Smart people sell talent now instead of selling replicatable digital goods. They sell live concerts and physical merchandise. They sell convenient delivery systems(like Steam or Netflix).

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>>388915123
There seems to be a number of marketers promoting it. Back when denuvo first started making the rounds, threads supporting it would show up here, and the OP and several replies would be reposted to or reposts of, word for word, posts in forums, comment sections, and anywhere else you can submit text across dozens of major sites. Youtube, reddit, kotaku, you name it. They seemed to have wised up since then and mix their posts up, but you can still do a few things to check, and they still turn up with some frequency.

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>corporate shills everywhere

>>388910807
This is the gayest shit I've ever read. Who fucking cares, are you working for these companies or a CEO? No? Then shut the fuck up.

Even from a market standpoint everything works out because people who do spend their money are voting with their wallets

>>388910061
Because after I buy something I shouldn't be beholden to the fucking publisher with what I can and can't do with it. DRM is a security tag on a piece of clothing you buy at a store that no one bothers to remove for you after your purchase.

>>388910061
can you give a solid argument on why it is good? or do you just love taking dicks in your ass?

Just watch this. It explains why Denuvo is bad. OP, everyone can see through your bullshit. This thread was made because Denuvo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7VepbHzioc

>>388914776
The one thing that could balance the infinite supply and allow the market forces into the video game industry is enforcement of THE RIGHT OF FIRST SALE.

Digital products must be re-salable. EU already ruled on it but never enforced it.

>>388910061
>how is it bad
You mean aside from having to run drm services like steam/uplay/origin.
Or running decryption on the fly?
Those things take up resources, how will I get all 144 frames on the latest games with this extra bullshit I shouldn't need.