Forced grinding in vidya

>have to kill an ennemy multiple times in order to get x
Ok.
>have to kill an ennemy multiple times in order to get a chance of x dropping
Not ok.

>>388835817
Grinding should feel like a relaxing yet invigorating hike up a small mountain, not a long, exhausting struggle up mt Everest

>>388835817
I would say "any" but then again I play Monster Hunter so I can't really do that. But then again I don't play MH for the loot as much as I do the hunts themselves, so maybe it's fair to say that.

I don't tend to enjoy RPGs since the difference between my skill at the start and the end of the game is negligible. Usually the thing separating you from end-game enemies is damage numbers and lacking abilities to take them on, not a lack of experience or practice. I rarely ever walk away from RPGs feeling like I've mastered something difficult or improved at all.

>>388836068
Isn't even the first one a very archaic way of artificially lengthening a game, though? Seems like they could probably do something a little more immersive and enjoyable.

>>388836406
Yeah, it is, but OP was asking about the limit.
I really dislike grinding overall.

Any amount is to much. So long as you don't skip tons of battles on the way to the next destination you should always be at a level where you can win whatever is coming up. Optional grinding should exist simply to make upcoming fights simpler and less strategic.

>>388835817
Play /v/scape instead. There's a general on /vg/

>>388836068
>Not always getting the drops you need instantly
>Not always hitting for max damage no matter what
If there is an infinite multiverse with infinite possibilities, there is a world where you crit 100% of the time throughout your entire life. There exists a man who will never fail to get anything but a maximum roll.

>>388836975
Ironically this thread isn't actually about RS. RS is about the only game where I like grinding, if only because that's pretty much the entire point of the game.

>>388835817
Runescape is too much.

I hated how I always had to bot just to get high end stats for Pking.

>>388837089
This man's name is Chad.

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When it starts forcing you to P2W. Like Let It Die for example.

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I love grinding.

Grinding is fun and relaxing as long as you also get some form of currency in addition to the chance of having the item you want drop. If you're just killing trash mobs x10,000 and get nothing else for it then it sucks.

>grind construction
>it's quite literally a money dump and just involves building and removing the same thing a billion times
>grind agility
>exp/hr is shit and the courses basically drop off after 75
>OR you can do a quest that requires at least 6 75s in other stats(hope you grounded $$$ dumps like construction and prayer, lol) to access another course

The game must successfully make grinding some sort of reward or spectacle in and of itself. If it can do that, you can potentially build entire games out of grinding

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I like farming in Dark Souls. It's addictive.

>>388837623
Yeah, Agility was a huge pain in the ass to grind. I liked Construction, though. Added a lot more to the game once you got further into it. It WAS a money dump, but it sort of went hand in hand with things like Woodcutting since you'll go through a lot of logs in Construction anyhow. Cut your own or sell good logs to buy what you need.

>>388837881

>finally get the level to cast plank make
>STILL costs money

Literally why

>>388837981
It'd have admittedly been better if your Fletching or Smithing (even WC) level reduced or negated costs of things like this.

Its insane runescape ever got popular considering how craptastic the gameplay it. Everything is a grind. 90% of your time in runescape its worse than than if you were doing minimum wage job.

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>tfw still no skill cape
I lack the skill of grinding

>>388835817
The amount is unimportant. it's the grinding itself that must be fun in the first place.

Just look at games that are designed all around grinding like Monster Hunter or Disgaea.
Two amazing series which are 95% grinding and people love them for it because it's fun.

If anyone had to grind even a single time in something like Borderlands, you can bet your ass they would never touch the game again.

>>388838573
it's comfy

>>388838683

>if

Dohohoho

>>388836068
That really depends if it's and online game. I liked how Dragons Dogma did the quests for a single player game but in online games random drops are always better to force some player interaction.

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I don't see nothing wrong with a little bump and grind.

>>388838573
That's the point of Runescape, though. It's not so much a game as it is a passive, easy to play hobby that you can do while doing other things. It's just for something to fill time and give you a cheap little thrill of accomplishment.

If you play it like an actual game it's terrible.

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>>388835817
Any piece of shit early access survival game with stone picks and hachets like this or Ark. Recipes are fucking ridiculous and artificial hour timers are bullshit.

>>388837483
Top kek
I just beat this game and I had to grind out for like 5 hours to beat the last 2 levels

>>388835817
If it's enjoyable and rewarding, it should be infinite. If it's a slog, if there's no variety, if there's too little content, if it's mindless, if there's no point to actually owning what it is you're grinding for, it shouldn't be in the game at all.

as long as the process is still fun

>>388835817
Depends 100% on the scenario

>"go kill 10 bears for reasons"
>quest is repeated 20 times over a few zones

vs

>"oh you found this old hatchet? you'll need to sharpen it... BY KILLING 500 SKELETONS"
>skeletons are easy as fuck to kill and there's a huge number of them near by

One feels like a chore, one feels rewarding

If the grinding is kept to a function you can idle at I don't mind, especially for professions. I don't mind having to kill RNG amounts of enemies for drops as long as there is other rewards attached to it (such as specific loot said enemies may drop).

While I like how expansive the crafting system in FFXIV is, having to dip into almost every other one to complete a single profession is annoying and having to mini-game before you can auto-craft items is too.

On the other hand I played a 2D mmorpg using modified sprites from Ultima called Dransik, and to do crafting it it you had to click your pick, click a rock, wait for it to mine, and repeat until you were full of ore, then you had to click the bellow of a furnace to light it before you could place ore in slowly (usually 1 at a time), and the bellow would need to be periodically ran again or the fight went out. The only reason I accepted that method was the exp you gained effected your profession and overall growth, so it was another way of leveling up your overall character as well.

>>388839150
Both of those sound like a chore. I don't even know which one is which to you.

>>388835817
If the grind can be rewarding then lots of grinding, the more the better, it helps the game filter out casuals with short attention spans.

The kind of people that have a problem with grinding are often the type that wants 'kill 5 mobs' type disposable gameplay or a short experience because they don't actually want to play the the game, they want to watch a movie or something that doesn't require investment or effort.

'grinding' is the core of gameplay, if you dislike it then you dislike games and you want something else that could be supplied in some other format.

>tfw 91 woodcutting
>89 to 99 is more xp than 1-89
Someone recommend me a show to watch

>>388839364
Mowing down an actual battlefield full of skeletons to get a magical tomahawk, or killing a few dozen generic animals for some silver.

i only enjoy grinding if i get to aoe shit

>>388839883
If you're going to make me kill X enemies for a magical tomahawk and you're going to put an abundance of them right nearby, there had better be just enough skeletons in the area for me to clear them and still complete the quest. I don't want to trek across the middle of butt-fuck nowhere to kill a ridiculous amount of easy mobs. Better yet, why not just use the opportunity to make the thing a fixed encounter? Instead of X amount of ANY skeleton, just make the player kill THESE skeletons.

Point being I'd better not have to spend my time walking around looking for 8 gorillion piss-easy mobs

When I was university, osrs was the perfect game to play for me because it requires so little attention to play that I could do it while studying or doing assignments, but also gave me enough entertainment that i could hold off my YouTube/4chan type distraction urges.

It was pretty comfy staying up til 4 am with a book and cup of coffee, slowly getting my wc level up and making a bit of bank.

>>388837089
And that man will always be mad he's not getting a common drop that is needed in bulk for crafting.

>>388835817
Forced grinding is the worst mechanic ever. It's just an addiction technique thrown in to get the player to play longer. It only really works in an MMO setting like WoW which still has paid subscriptions.

>>388837981

I'm levelling construction just now. Crude wooden chairs coming out of my asshole.

>>388838573
You grind to do the quests in it, and stop when you've got a quest cape.
Grinding for 99s is autism on the highest order.

>>388839883
The item reward will turn into silver too, once you outgrow it.

i didn't mind grindscape because it actually felt like i was working towards something. other games feel like they force me to grind the most mundane stuff for the shittiest reward.

>>388835817

Cutting willows. That's too much.

>>388842039
Actually you can hang it on your wall in that game.

>>388842683

Maples were worse

>>388842727
>lol look at anon and his shitty axe

>>388835817
>enemy drops half an item quest
>no other way to get the other half than to buy it from another player

>>388836068
I honestly prefer random drops.
It feels a lot more exciting knowing it could come at any time as opposed to knowing how many hours of grinding you have ahead of you.

>>388843784
This goes along with my first part of >>388839221 if there's some random rng rewards to earn while also grinding/farming then it feels more rewarding.

>>388837089
I cant speak for every games RNG programming, but im fairly sure for most, thats impossible, as its not true "random" (nor is there such a thing to exist)

In simplist of terms, there is a master list.
lets say the list says 1234567890
and the 1st time the game needs an RNG double digit number, it will see the 1 and 2, and have "12" as the anser.
then needs a triple digit number, and sees the "345", and so forth.

The master number sheet is designed to mimic the feel of "random" w/o actually being true random, and therefor wont see too many fails/successes in a row.
(In a similar manner, iTunes had to change its RNG sheet, because ppl complained it didnt feel random enough, even though the edit made it less random, but made it "feel" more random, by having less consecutive results.