>Illidan killed naaru because she hurted his feelings Wow, 10/10

>>388831864
Naaru are a part of the legion.

>>388831864
Are you underage?

he did it because they were just another tyranny, of the Light instead of Chaos.

Illidan isn't big on following some faith based entities every command, regardless of their alignment.

>>388831864

>Illidan killed naaru because she hurts his feelings

Illidan killed Naaru because he already got transformed by a greater power and that power drove him to shit. Even if it's holy power, he feared that shit to go sour just like last time

Never trust higher sentinent beings in scifi, they will fuck you over in an instant for the greater good of the universe.

>A character with the title "The Betrayer" betrays someone
>Shocker
Illidan has been doing this in every story he's in. The guy has switched sides more than socks. Well, he has hooves these days but you know what I mean.

>>388831864
More like illidan wasn't comfortable with the prostate exam Xe'ra's godtentacles were about to give him

seriously, not even interrogator vishas sounded as rapey as that bitch

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I thought he killed the naaru because he rightfully hates them and they led everyone on the first crusade against him for no reason?

>>388832361
Kil'Jaeden baited the Alliance and Horde into invading Outland and fucking Illidan up because Illidan was a serious threat to the Legion, the Naaru just helped because Alliance and Horde helped the Naaru

>illidan kills the whitest thing in existence

Good.

>>388832292
but.. he never really betrayed any of the "good guy" groups, they just think he did, each and every time.

"The Betrayer" ended up being an ironic nickname for him.

He did it to quell false hope and make people fight for themselves instead of praying for someone else to fix their problems.

You have to be exceptionally weak to worship someone so hard that you think they'll make the bad things go away and make your life great again.

Illidan kind of hates weakness as a rule.

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>>388832640
I am proud to be his disciple desu

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>937 equipped warrior
>Pretty fun
>See new animations for casters
>Suddenly want to drop my warrior for my 899 mage

>>388832906

Demon hunters are the most fucking fun to tank with. The play style is just huge fun.

>>388831864
In this moment, I am euphoric. Not because of any phony Naaru's blessing. But because, I am enlightened by my sacrifice.

>>388833049
>Demon hunters are the most fucking fun to tank with
No, their selfheal is so overpowered outside of mythic raid, it's not even fun, just braindead

>>388832906
hussy

>>388831864
>The naaru wants to force her holy power up Illidan's ass
>Illidan refuses
>She does it anyway because of muh prophecy
Was it rape?

>>388834496
t.buttmad warrior

>>388832541
Xe'ra was more asian than white, A'dal is still alive and well and is the whitest being in all of wow's history

>>388832906
>Weiss

Nice.

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>>388833049
>They destroyed brewmaster because they wanted the self healing on their favourite class

>>388835506
Nope. Xe'ra is literally from the lineage of first naaru the ones who fought against void lords before sargeras was born and who raped legion ass when illidan was cucked

>>388836320
Xe'ra is literally straight yellow

>>388831864
>get beaten the shit ou by Arthas when he wasn't LK
>one shot Naaru for some reason
Blizzard can't write for shit.

>>388831864

yeah illidan reminds me a lot about the people here on /v/. so sad.

>>388831864
The Naaru tried to "purify" him and take his powers away because it thought that Illidan was the chosen one or some shit.

When he realized that it was actually weaker than him and full of shit he blasted it away.

>>388836756
bait post I'm guessing, otherwise you'll realize how much shit has happened inbetween these two events and why Illidan would be way the fuck stronger by now

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She was a bitch tho

>>388837828
No, she was in right

>>388836756
uggh
>He almost killed Arthas he was basically 1% away
>It was a long time again
>Training is good, makes you stronger.

>>388836992
>The naaru that supposedly solo held off the eredar race while the draenei escaped argus
>Solo'd by slightly suped up night elf
Bravo blizzard

>>388832495
>Kil'Jaeden baited the Alliance and Horde into invading Outland
You mean bad writing.
the justification for marching on BT was kael's false flag attack on shatt which everyone knew was a false flag after tempest keep and because miev a noted traitor and exile asked nicely.

>>388839286
What was Kael's endgame anyway why did we attack him
Give me a quick rundown on tbc lore

>dumb cunt tries to rape Illidan with light to 'fix' him
>Illidan attempts to decline several times, even while it's happening
It may be written like shit, but he wasn't in the wrong. Though I'm kind of mad that Xe'ra sat around in your class hall for ages, only to immediately be blown the fuck out once reassembled.

>>388839427
Kael had no endgame because the writing was rushed bullshit that made no sense and only happened because in vanilla everyone claimed the story didn't progress and had nothing to do with the WCIII story (although you'll never hear about that on /v/ because no one actually played back then and not hive minding about how great old wow was is frowned upon).

In universe it basically boiled down to 'lol corruption' KJ promised to cure the belfs magic addiction if they joined the legion so he did.
This was retarded for multiple reasons; Kael hated the legion because they were responsible for the fall of silvermoon (and he knew this) and he knew the legion would never live up to its end of the bargain.

But that's TBC writing for you.

>finally defeat the legion

> naaru are now the chaotic good guys ruining everything

>you have to now help resummon the old gods and work with c'thune and Yogg

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why didnt she just give powers to the player if lilidan didnt want it??

>>388840095
because the prophecy

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>>388832245
>go sour
He betrayed Sargeras immediately.
Like I don't think he did a single thing for the Legion, he just took the power and fucked off back to Malfurion and Tyrande.
Why couldn't he do the exact same fucking thing now, especially since all the naaru wanted him to do was the shit he dedicated his 10,000 year life already fucking doing!

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>Trusting the Naaru to begin with

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Like Lucifer rejected the tyranny of God and the drug-like blind faith the loyalist angels were subject to, Illidan is rejecting the tyranny of the Light and its stripping of free will.

Guarantee by the end of this expansion or in the next vs. N'zoth, we're gonna learn priests and paladins are basically mental slaves to the Light.

>it's a the church is evil and enlightened fence-sitter double-bill episode

>>388839879

I liked Classic and Burning Crusade a ton but I agree: the writing was shit.

Classic was Ragnaros and Nefarian not getting along and you being a dumb shit when it comes to handling phylacteries.

>>388842096

Based on the writing in Legion; Priests will be while Paladins will be over it.

>>388831864
He rejected it because naaru will make him a nu male

>>388842096
But Lucifer didn't reject the tyranny, he wanted to replace it.
Also, priest and paladins already proved they aren't slaves to it because they and the rest of the draenei didn't gut Illidan when he decided to kill the mother of their gods.

>>388831864
being raped and have everything you fought for turned to shit light powers and op is suprised`?

>>388841372
>Why couldn't he do the exact same fucking thing now, especially since all the naaru wanted him to do was the shit he dedicated his 10,000 year life already fucking doing!

It's either pride or a real belief that the mortals should be the master of their own destiny, not some higher powers.

>>388838543
No she wasn't.
>hurr trade your old master for a new one :^)
Fuck that shit, Illidan did nothing wrong.

>>388838543
>enslaving/mind controlling people against their will is being in the right

>>388831864

>Its surface blazes bright, masking shadow below

Even a fucking old god said Xe'ra cannot be trusted

Illidan did the right thing

>HEY WANT THESE HOLY POWERS?
>No thanks, got bad experience last time I tried something like this
>DUDE TRUST ME I'M A FAIRY

>>388839924
KEK

>>388843412
I could understand that if he had to make a deal with the naaru, or if it wanted him to change his course. But from what we've seen it just wanted him to keep killing demons. So I'm going to put my vote in pride.
And just like Vegeta it will carry him until it is the end of him.

>>388843814
>Trusting fairies

I've played enough JRPGs to now that's a bad idea

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What went wrong?

>>388844505
Why is he so handsome?

>>388844505
Garbge character like garrosh was intoduced
Also everytime 2 characters interact and work together they always snark on each other

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>playing a lightcuck or some blind fedora
>not playing the certified master class

>>388844583
Orc genes.

>>388844971
maghar genes

>>388844969

It's barely above monk-level in terms of relevance.

>>388844583
Probably the stubble, and wide jaw. Plus, despite the tusks, he has a highly symmetrical face. In fact, it's a human face, with pointy ears and sharp teeth.
What you see isn't what is on the image, but what it COULD be in reality - a handsome, muscular man - hence it appears more attractive.

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>>388845196

>great in both pve and pvp
>fucked over an entire class in their lore this expansion
>helping based Lich King reign when all the other faggots are too weak

nah, we are the most relevant and most dangerous wildcard after legion

whatever shit class you play can't compare

>>388831864
>Illidan chose to consume the skull and become a pawn of the legion for power
>Windchime forces him to become infused when he declines
With how shit Blizzard writing is, I think it's pretty funny how people struggle to understand this and just go
>m-muh edge
It's not very complicated. He chose to be a bitch to the Legion. He chose not to be a bitch to the light. Very complicated

>>388845297
>>388845343

>trust us, we'll be relevant in like 3 expansions when they bring back the lich king.

Yeah, your precious horsemen will be one boss to be killed with the raid finder in 2025. Literally who cares? tier.

>>388832292
He can still wear socks tho, just on his horns

>>388843232
>didn't
They tried

>>388832605

nope hes a traitor and deserved to be treated like shit

>>388831919
proofz plz

>>388845480
No, he always cried about muh sacrifice, but when it came for him to have a balls to do something, he tried to pussy out

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>>388842096

>tfw Bolvar figured it all out when that cunt Alexstrasza sealed his fate

It's time to go to town on these tyrannical lightcucks. Light's Hope was just the first blow. Soon, based Bolvar and the Scourge will wash over both the Light and Void and usher in a new era of freedom in death.

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>>388831864
>start the 7.3 quests
>enjoy it
>suddenly "complete follower mission"
i never really bothered with the dumbass follower shit, i didnt play the game enough during legion to max them out
and now i cant even proceed in the Main Story line because of it
10/10 game design
cant play the game if you havent already played the game too much

>>388845880
No, he literally wanted to replace the old guard (read: God) with himself.
He didn't want to make heaven ancap, he wanted to rule.

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>>388832906

>Weiss

I like this, but if you didn't side with Altrius you're still a colossal hussy.

>>388846149

>siding with a person who canonically planned your death in TBC

cucklord over here

>>388832127
*tips Cursed Vision of Sargeras*

>>388846057
>suddenly "complete follower mission"
What?
It doesn't have anything like that

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>>388846149
I stand with my master idiot stop calling me that

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>>388838543
Might makes right, and it isn't a piece of Illidan we shove into the Netherlight Crucible to boosto our DBZ weapons.

>>388846096
I'm talking about the last part, not Lucifer, which by the way has nothing on the bible.

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>>388846225

>siding with the guy whose idol is a cuck who has had oneitis over over 10,000 years

>>388831864
illidan killed a naaru because she was trying to rape him with her light penis and he didn't consent

>>388844505

initially it was rtsfags mad that thrall wasn't warchief, then his character was written as orc hitler and a flawed leader gradually learning to be warchief at the same time, this miscommunication led to blizz going fuck it and you have what is in game

>>388845821
Socks are fo yo feet silly

>>388846015
>freedom in death
>must serve the Lich King
You can't call anyone a cuck when Bolvar rules your ass and gets first dibs on all the banshees, val'kyr, and san'layn.

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>>388838543

>illidan accepts new light powers
>gets transformed and becomes more powerful
>possibly not even Illidan anymore, but X'era controlling his body
>can't do anything else but fight the Void after the Legion is dealt with, for eternity
>treated like a weapon and not a person, will be sacrificed at the drop of a hat when required

X'era was evil as fuck. Fuck the Light.

>>388846475
So he pussied out
Well, turns out he was only talk about wanting to defeat legion:3

>>388846298
i think the petrified forest content requires you to complete a mission to unlock new followers and equipment, but you can skip that for obvious reasons if you're ignoring followers

>>388846475
This is literally the 1st person in the thread that nails it.
Bitch was just MUH DESTINY MUH CHILD OF LIGHT FOOO-FEEL DA PROPHA-C
and proceeded to rape him.
He had every right to blast that bitch into nothing.

Anyway Illidan dies at the end of the expansion anyway, so who gives a fuck really.
He sacrifices himself to seal sagares.

>>388846456
Only the guy who wanted to fuck the thing more than his own wife. Draenei literally worship the windchimes, the draenei LARPer shouldn't have been the only one after his ass.

>>388831864
"My destiny is my own! Super Illidan Beam!"

What did he mean by that second part?

>>388846456
Whoops, meant to quote >>388846465

>>388846519
>>freedom in death
>>must serve the Lich King
Death Knights PC's literally just stopped wanting to serve the lich king and did so. You're not bound by anything other than your own desire.

Childhood is idolizing Illidan
Adulthood is realizing he's gotten his ass kicked repeatedly and muh scars is not a valid reason to turn down a powerup

>>388846658
No, he doesn't die
Just becomes his jailer after titans seals him.
Illidan pride almost fucked everything because in the end he didn't had power to do shit against Sargeras except sucking his mighty penis
Funny for the guy who "ready to sacrifice everything" to end up being such a coward

Turalyon and Alleria are cute

>>388846658
Nah he'll live, they're just setting him aside for now until we need Sageras again for whatever reason.

Almost literally put on a bus.

>>388846812
fuck it was so cringe

>>388846860
>refuses to become a fuckin doll, a weapon, doesnt want to be used as a soulless toy of some windchime
>uuuuuh, muh scars, amirite guys
kys

>>388846716

>well, the boss moved so time to shitpost on /v/ for the 5 minutes it takes to catch up.

swing and a miss on the class buddy.

It's okay, you can use your free time to make some memes and post them in a decade when your class appears in a cutscene again.

>>388846821
You clearly didn't level frost.
Arthas' ghost comes out and says that the Lich King's will just feels like your own. It's why you'd follow him blindly in raising Tyrion instead of just choosing Darion outright.

>>388847009
But that would be for the sake of defeating legion
And if not deus ex machine in the ending we would get raped by sargeras

>>388847009
>refuses to be useful in taking down Sargeras

ftfy. illidans current power wasnt enough to stop playings at Nighthold. His goal is to beat the legion, Xera was going to help with that, but illidan needs to be an edgemonkey

>>388847009

When did the light ever deprive anyone if free will in the Warcraft lore?

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>tfw more interested in what based Bolvar is up to next more than anything

Really hope he doesn't become Arthas 2.0, but like a more badass Wrathion who doesn't ask adventurers for help like a bitch, but breaks/impresses them into serving him and completing his dark, but just goal.

There is only the justice of the grave!

>>388831864
>>388846559
desu i think this is actually one of the better written segments in the past few years, meme about it all you want but you're missing the point.

as he's said countless times, he's sacrificed everything to become what he is. xera keeps talking about "restoring" him and "healing" him, essentially trying to erase all he's done in order to turn him into some kind of messiah. illidan doesn't want that; he IS his choices, the bad ones and the good. one of the best exchanges in that entire scene is
xera: "i can heal your scars"
illidan: "i AM my scars"
that single exchange pretty much sums up what each side is thinking throughout that scene and why they did what they did. xera wants her chosen one to defeat the legion, but illidan doesn't want to erase all that he is and all that he has done for some tenuous power that may well end up changing his very nature.

there's a lot of problems with this expansion and the early light's heart shit that was available in the beginning was poorly written, but i actually liked that cutscene a lot.

>>388847105
bitch I haven't played the game since 3.3. I'm talking about the DK intro questline. Was it the lich kings will to have his death knights betray him and eventually kill him?

>>388847215
>We are on out own and make destiny ourselves
>LOL SORRY WE CAN'T BEAT SARGERAS ON OUR OWN
My sides

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>>388832906
>can't wear eyepatches unless you also remove your blindfold at the barbershop
They should fix that

>>388847215
>illidan doesnt want to erase all that he is
useless and edgy?

>>388846456

the bible is just fanfic, they literally held a convention where they decided which parts of it were legit or not based on their own ideas of faith

>talking snake? no problem let it in
>jesus marrying a woman? WTF DELET THIS

>>388847342
there's a difference between relying on each other for support and giving yourself over completely and erasing who you are in order to fight today's evil. if you lose what makes you you, you weaken yourself for future battles. keep in mind that the old god shit is supposed to happen next expansion and that the naaru have ended up flipping to void several times in the past, e.g. m'uru. even if that wasn't the case, losing who you are to fight the current fight isn't a good long-term game plan.

>>388847491
nicememe

>>388847520
>fanfic
Yes and no, you could call any mythology, book or story a fanfic with that logic.

>>388847294
Did your guild not kill Arthas? His entire plan was to get all of the very best of Azeroth's champions to fight their way to the frozen throne so he could kill them and raise them as scourge. And it worked, after the final phase he just kills your entire raid and gets ready to rez you before Tyrion deus ex machinaed everything to be a ok.
So yes, the betrayal was part of the plan.

>>388842252
>it's anon is fucking retarded episode
Naaru has nothing to do with church you stupid fucking moron.

>>388847294
The PC DKs didn't choose to turn on arthas, Tirion just pulled off a localised forsakening because arthas was cocky enough to fight him on concd ground with the ashbringer.
The only reason the Ebon hold DKs were even there was because you were supposed to be shit tier and die in the fighting.

>>388847605
No, there difference about just talking about being ready to sacrifice everything to defeat legion, and actually having balls to do things
Illidan ended up being pathetic coward and almost coasted us war

>>388847520

the bible is a triky book because historians checked for the places and events described and those fuckers existed, even before they could discover them they were already listed when they thought they didn't

if anything the bible is a zealous history book, lots of facts, lots of agendas

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>>388847520
>bible is a fanfic
of what?

>>388846007
>do you want to consume the skull
yes
>do you want to be infused with light
no

Regardless of what Illidan should have done, he refused and wasn't given a choice. I am mocking the people who can't see the difference in this and becoming a demon

>>388847942

>t. didn't read the bible

>>388847718
Why aren't you playing that better class then, instead of shitposting?

>>388847942

The tale of Gilgamesh and Enkidu

>>388847983
>Do you want to eat chocolate
>yes
>Do you have balls to do the right thing
>No, please it would hurt my feeligns, I'm scared, i'm sure we could won without it, I'm prepared I swear
kek

>>388847785
he would do things if they were actually advantageous
losing everything that he is, all that made him him, in order to become some tenuous "chosen one" would not have been a smart decision, especially without time to actually think about it and having it forced upon you without any say in the matter.

>>388831864
I don't think it had anything to do with feelings. I think he did it because the Naaru was trying to force him to be something he didn't want to be. She wanted to turn him into an angel chosen one, and he's like "nah, i'm just some guy".

I mean, it was pretty edgy of him, but that's why people like this smug fucker.

>>388848119
Like I said, not defending Illidan or Blizzard writing. I don't give a shit about either. I'm just mocking the people who struggle to understand Blizzard writing when it's made for children.

>>388847520
*tips faedora in your general direction*
*gives a single nod of approval*

>>388848134
>he would do things if they were actually advantageous
But he didn't , and this is why we needed to be bailed out in the last moment by forces we coudn't see coming
He tried run away, and after that screamed like a little girl when mother naaru penetrated him
He was a coward who could only talk, nothing more

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>>388831864
Post characters /dab-ing

>>388847775
?? It's stated that Acherus and the Ebon Blade rivaled the might of Naxxramas.

>>388848419
>Alliancefags

>>388848373
he had no guarantee that what xera wanted to make him would actually be advantageous or that the thing they wanted to make him into would have had the same mindset as he did. in the end it would have been incredibly short-sighted and stupid for him to just sit back and take it without some degree of deliberation.

>>388831864
I'm actually glad he had that little edgy moment instead of them going through with that Chosen One thing

>>388833049

vengeance was fun until they killed the razor spikes build and butchered spirit bomb so the rotation became 3 buttons.

>>388848191

I'm not following this bullshit, but from the video, it seemed like Illidan was trying to say making deals with these entities only brings trouble and that instead of looking for chosen ones and prophecies they should try to sort shit out themselves.

>>388839879

>Tfw blizz keep pushing the kael'thas fire mage meme so hard they took away all the blood mage visuals from destro locks

still mad.

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I want to play mage now, is it true that fire just goes for ilvl on gear since basically all the stats are equal on weights?

>>388833049
>tank

yes, they are

too bad the dps spec is the most retard braindead shit

>>388848767
fire is crit and haste

at least it was a couple months ago

>>388848587
>he had no guarantee that what xera wanted to make him would actually be advantageous
So he was too afraid of taking risk despite being showed to be a weakling again and again in recent patches
>or that the thing they wanted to make him into would have had the same mindset as he did
Army of light fought against legion before he was even born
> in the end it would have been incredibly short-sighted and stupid for him to just sit back and take it without some degree of deliberation.
In the end he was showed to be a massive hypocrite who could only talk about "muh sacrifice"

>>388848767
If you have the choice on the same ilvl, go for crit and/or haste, but yes, you're right

It used to be mainly crit but they evened it out

I stopped caring for legion when they tried to guilt trip us for killing him before and how he was actually a good guy all along and now we gotta worship him
It's almost like they pulled the whole story out of their asses just so they could put someone cool and memorable back on the cover

>>388836756
Wasn't he fairly new to his demonic powers?

>>388841372
Xe'ra implied that he was going to be a completely different person, with the wiping away of his scars
Illidan has ALWAYS held on to his self-sacrifices to keep himself fighting for the world, and he was scared shitless of losing those experiences

>>388849023
> when they tried to guilt trip us for killing him

do you remember who was trying to do that, anon?

how the fuck am i supposed to enjoy DK?
>Frost is fucking dead
>UH offers below-average dps for that complex rotation
>Blood is not even relevant, nobody takes you for M+

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>>388831864

Illidan is basically the enlightened atheist of the WoW - universe.

As well as his real-life fedora counterpart he gets cucked by everybody.

>>388849089

Illidan never sacrificed anything, he traded all his shit for power

>>388831864
>illidan kills the most powerful being that control the light, who might as well have created the light
>this is somehow bad writing
Shit, I bet 99% of WoW faggots expected him to be purged of the fel magic, and then say "OH I SEE THE LIGHT" naw fuck you, that shit was actually fucking good. I like the little edgy faggot Illidan now

>>388848913
there's a difference between smart risk-taking and stupid risk-taking and this was a stupid risk

>>388847294
Yes you retard?
Do you not remember the Crusade being a huge work to draw a bunch of heroes to IceCrown so Arthas could raise a bunch of bigdick Death Knights
The only reason he died is deus ex ashbringer interfered

>>388849305
pretty much this.
while he gave up so much, he never gives something for nothing.

>>388848767
resto druid is pretty much equal weight for stats rn
haste and mastery used to be the preferred ones but now they're all pretty equal

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>>388831864
New neutral faction the alt-light.

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>>388831864
>Illidan hates corruption fetish
>Naaru tries to light rape Illidan
>Purification is just another version of corruption fetish
>Illidan defends himself from a fetish he hates

Then the fanfiction writing Naaru dies and nobody was upset.

>>388849078
yes, and arthas was a fucking death knight.
still wiped the floor with him.

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>>388849305
>Illidan never sacrificed anything, he traded all his shit for power
>while he gave up so much, he never gives something for nothing.

>>388831864
so... I havnt played wow since wrath...
Wasnt the naaru a fucking race and not a her?
So he went full genocide on the race of light jpegs?

>>388849459
>smart risk-taking
>Let's destroy northern continent
>Let's eat this amazing skull
>Let's make a deal with demon lord
Nah, Illidan was just a coward

>>388849741
xe'ra is the naa'ru prime, presumably like a matriarch

>>388831864
The Huln story imo is done like that on purpose (ridiculous and over the top) to show that it's a legend told and re-told over generations and embellished along the way. It's presented in a bit of a tongue-in-cheek way, although this is Blizzard, so it's hard to tell.

The two more serious offenders are Broken Shore (which has no story and no sense of urgency or danger, where there should be plenty) and the whole Xe'ra/Illidan business, which is just annoying. Illidan was fine as a scociopathic antihero that does what he does because he believes the end justifies the means. The retcon story that forces a dumb alternate canon on the player, setting him up as a messiah who never did nothing wrong and is the perfect Sue, is just cringeworthy.

>>388847153
Haven't followed since MoP
What the fuck is Wrathion even doing? Has he gone bad yet?

>>388849689
Yes?

>I lost my eyes but it's okay because I have sick eye beams now
>I lost my body but it's okay because I can fly now
>I lost Tyrande but it's okay because being a cuck is my scars

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>>388849741
>>388849830

>Turalyon, Alleria, and an adventurer from Azeroth would later travel to the Xenedar, now crashed on Argus, where they found the gravely injured Xe'ra and teleported her to the Vindicaar.[1] Upon arrival and her reunion with Light's Heart, Xe'ra attempted to provide Illidan with his destiny through the Light, but Illidan stated he had traded his freedom for power before. As the two got into an argument about Illidan embracing the Light and whether his destiny was his own, Xe'ra even bound Illidan in chains of light to force the prophecy to be fulfilled and forge Illidan a new life. Stating that his life was not hers to take, Illidan ultimately broke free, declared his destiny is his own, and killed Xe'ra. Horrified, Turalyon cried that Illidan had doomed them all and attempted to strike him down. Illidan blocked Turalyon's blow, telling him that his faith had blinded him and there was no chosen one--only they could save themselves.[2] Only some last vestiges of light remained, which was gathered up as Velen swore that the Light did not die with her and shone in each of them.[12] Xe'ra's light was safeguarded in the Netherlight Crucible.[13]

Jpeg deserved to die.
I dont even like illidan and that shit aint right

>>388849689
>he gave up so much,
Like what?
He never needed to gave up anything willingly until now. And he pussied out

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>Fedora shit
>fedora wearing katana wielding (((people))) are actually defending this
WoW should die already, what a fucking travesty

>>388850053
>only they could save themselves
My favorite part is how it was proved to be totally false in the raid
Illidan really was a little, pathetic bitch all this time

>>388850059
He ripped out his eyes, made himself an outcast, has fel burn himself from the inside out at every moment, and cucked himself

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>>388831864

>be me
>be prime naru
>be most powerful being in the universe
>be billions of years old
>battled fucking darkness itself to a stand still
>make fucking titans look like little bitches

>get beaten by a blind, purple penis-look a like with anger management issues

What the fuck?

>>388850218
>Illidan really was a little, pathetic bitch all this time
every. single. problem. azaroth. has. ever. had. can. be. traced. back. to. illidan.

>>388850274
You weren't prepared

>>388850345
yeah the old gods beneath azeroth's surface and the burning legion coming to destroy all life were totally his fault

>>388850274

X'era's core is visibly damaged, maybe she was in a weakened state

>Naaru have literally never shown to have motives beyond saving people from the Void and the Legion.
>somehow we're supposed to question them now.

The idea that the Light isn't anything but goodness and righteousness sounds like another "Shades of Gray" bullshit thing we're going to get.

>>388850270
For power.
That isn't a sacrifice, that's a trade.
He reached his limits as a mage and wanted more power. Fel was the first offer made to get lots of power really fast and Illidan snatched it up.
Also being cucked implies having a relationship or at least a shot. Tyrande literally had no idea Illidan even liked her, while even mentioning Malfurion made her moist.

>>388849991
Sort of. It isn't addressed but he caused WoD and therefore indirectly caused Legion, the "largest legion invasion ever"

>>388850059
I'm mocking you and the anon who replied for being faggots and it looks like you have't played the games at all. I also think your just arguing to argue and pretending not to know what sacrifice means.

>>388850270
>He ripped out his eyes
And got amazing gems for the eyes, so he could see even more than before
>made himself an outcast
No, he actually expected to everyone welcome him with open eyes and suck his dick. Becoming imprisoned and 10k years later kicked from the night elf land was a big surprise for him
>has fel burn himself from the inside out at every moment
In exchange for the more sturdy body
Deathwing was burned from the inside, Illidan just got some emo tattos
>and cucked himself
He expected for the Tyrande to return to him until BC

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>>388850274
People have no taste, especially edgy teens.
Serve them shit and call it ice cream and they can't tell the diffefence

>>388850554
>Naaru have literally never shown to have motives beyond saving people from the Void and the Legion.
correct, but as we've seen with m'uru and i think a few others, it's not all that hard to corrupt them.

the light was better when it was just a philosophy

>>388849674
A death knight who survived an assassination attempt on his life and was low on power.

>>388850689
"Corrupt" them is a misnomer, They have cycles of Light-life and Void-undeath. The Naaru do not LIKE turning into Void creatures and seem to take great lengths to try and stop them.

Considering the Void dungeon in Legion shows a Naaru sacrificed itself to save Draenei refugees shows they're not evil in the slightest.

All it is is Illidan whining that nobody pays attention to his fedora philopshpy and then when he finally gets the call to be the hero he thinks he is, he autistically shits himself.

>>388839924
Legion is chaotic good, Sargeras is literally the same character as Illidan, but the size of a planet

>>388849991
Absolutely nothing after WOD they planned for him to play some role in Legion seeing as his MOP and WOD role had him foreseeing the legion invasion but then they dropped him from the plot just like Baine for Highmountain

>>388850952
Destroy everything because "Muh Void" is hardly good.

Also he's corrupting the Pantheon so he can lead it, he's clearly just powerhungry.

So yeah, like Illidan.

>>388851147

Wrathion's endgame is the old gods and void Lord's, those are what fucked the black dragonflight

He's not concerned with the legion

>>388847153
Bolvar has been acting super shady, but I love it

>lawfags finally got sick of sucking the YHVH cock and came to wow threads to suck some naaru cock
lawfags are pure cancer

>>388845971
>t. Malfurion

>>388851337
The Naaru have NEVER been the "Lawful" type, they have always been GOOD, just plain GOOD.

I mean these are the same beings who allowed all forms of refugees into their city and told the Draenei to stay their blades from attacking the Scryers.

>>388850274
>>be me
>>be prime naru
Which is it. Christ this brain retardation, is this what happens when you can't think for yourself and just spew bullshit seen on plebbit like a mantra?

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>>388831864
>Xe'ra violated the NAP
>Illidan defended himself

Edgelord did nothing wrong.

>>388851481
maybe the naaru in general but everything in 7.3 suggests xera was more lawful than good
>punished alleria for delving into void magic regardless of the reason
>tried to force illidan to fulfill the prophecy even without his consent
those both sound more lawful than good. not to mention turalyon's hard-on for xera. paladins are the epitome of lawful good in any setting.

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>>388831864
hurted?

>>388851748
>Be a Light being whose duality is the Void
>Some Elf thinks they should dabble into the void in the middle of your Holy Light powered ship
>You lock them up for being a stupid cunt.

Literally the most retarded thing Alleria could have done at the time. The Void does little to nothing to Demons and in fact is easily bent to the will of the Legion, Why the fuck did she think it would be a good idea to try that while fighting a guerrilla war against the Legion?

I mean for fuck sake, it's not like it was Shamanism, or even Arcane. It was literally the most corrupting thing in the setting.

>>388851748
>punished alleria for delving into void magic regardless of the reason
She has a good reason for it. Finish dungeon as a shadow priest and your dagger will fellato you because you opened way to void in the sanctuary of light
To make it simple making deal with demon and fucking world is less evil when helping void lords in anything

>>388852000
>you lock them up because they violated your ruleset
lawful
presuming to know what is best for other people and punishing them for breaking your rules is as lawful as it gets

>>388852112
sure, and i'm not even saying it was the wrong decision from a logical standpoint. but you can put a stop to well-intentioned stupidity without detaining someone against their will.
i'm not saying xera doesn't have good intentions but it seems like she didn't really give a shit about doing the right thing and was purely goal-oriented. other people were ultimately just tools for her to achieve her goals. those goals may have been benevolent, but using and coercing people to do things against their will and punishing them if they get in your way is not really good-aligned behavior.

>>388851320

did you even sit through the legendary questline in MoP anon? He's forgotten, dropped. If they bring him back it'll never have as much an impact.

>>388852540
He was actually part of the Highmountain storyline like Baine but also got dropped from it.

Both Illidan and Xe'ra were idiots and acted without thinking.

Illidan is a moron for thinking that the Light is somehow the opposite mirror of Fel. It's not. The Arcane is the opposite mirror of the Fel. Light is the opposite of Shadow, aka undeath and shit like that.

Illidan mistakenly thought that the Light would 'corrupt' him like the Fel had, that it would attempt to enslave and control him like the Fel did. Doesn't work that way AT ALL in game lore. The Light is dependent on the users will, not the other way around, all it requires is faith in the righteousness of your actions. Look at the Scarlet Crusade as an example; they tortured and slaughtered innocents who were not infected with the plague of undeath, yet they did not lose their light-based powers, because they BELIEVED they were doing the right thing, that by sacrificing those who MIGHT be infected, they were saving innocents. If you need more proof, look at the player character Paladins.

Now for Xe'ra. Xe'ra was an idiot for thinking that Illidan would simply obey commands like many of the followers of the Light do. Had it taken five fucking seconds to explain everything I just said to Illidan; to make it clear to him that it would not enslave him, but would give him the power he needed to defeat the Legion, I GUARANTEE you that Illidan would have willingly gone along with it.

Illidan sacrificed his mages lives to save Ravencrest and his army. He sacrificed his soul later, infecting himself with the Fel in order to save his people, even though it ostracized him. Illidan, as a character, has always been one to make the tough decisions; to walk the harder path. He would have done so again here, had he been assured that doing so would not fuck with his free will.

You could say that Xe'ra was simply following its nature in commanding rather than persuading, but I'd say that's bullshit since Na'aru are supposed to be extremely wise. The writers fucked up Xe'ra, and as a result, we got this bullshit.

>>388852815
>Illidan, as a character, has always been one to make the tough decisions; to walk the harder path
Is it a joke?

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>>388831864
The Naaru have attacked him before.

>>388853041
Not really. Illidan is a supreme edgelord fedora-master, to be true, but he's always shown a willingness to do whatever is necessary, regardless of the personal cost.

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Is there a worse time to be Alliance now that this limp wristed fairy is King?

>>388853136
You think it matters? Alliance is allowed only one character with a spine at a time and Blizzard portrays them as a rabid dog anyway. It used to be Varian, then he passed the spine on to Jaina.
Drop those pants and let the Horde commit genocide on your people because they're so honourable and they've had a tough life.

>>388853136
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4Xy0SXWApk

He's King MANDUIN now

>>388852815
>light is dependent on the user's will
>Xe'ra tries to force illidan to accept the light's "blessing" against his will
maybe the blessing was for the best, but you can't blame the guy for being skeptical

>>388852815
>The Arcane is the opposite mirror of the Fel
i'm interested in knowing more about this. what are the natures of fel and arcane and how are they opposed?

>>388853115
>regardless of the personal cost.
This is where you wrong. He never had balls to do right thing when it could actually cost him something
Even killing his own mages was in hopes that it will bring him more glory, and when Ravencrest(Guy who unlike Illidan actually killed demons) called him on his bullshit he was surprised, Illidan actually thought that everyone will suck his dick and Tyrande will spread her pussy to him for doing it

>>388852815
Honestly if some fucking Glowing Wind Chime subdued me and tried to 'force the light' onto me I'd fucking merc her to.

Seriously though, Illidan must have sensed something was up with how aggressive she was trying to 'purify' him and decided to kill her in case she was evil and trying to control him. It's not like she left him much of a choice.

>>388853290
It's funny people still pretend horde matter much less are in anyway favored. It's been full blown sense of right alliance since cata

>>388853305
nobody picked up his fucking sword when he died? wtf?

>>388850562
The point of trades IS sacrificing one thing for another. Do you REALLY think old cultures killed animals and people for nothing?

>>388853531
Warlocks can't use it so Gul'dan passed the roll

>>388853504
The few straggling refugee nations of the Horde haven't been wiped out yet despite continuously attacking the Alliance all throughout WoW. Blizzard is MASSIVELY dragging the story in the Horde's favour just because the status quo has to remain but the Horde also has to be totally badass edgy rebels.

>>388853323
I blame him for not knowing that the Light is not the Fel. Especially since he was heavily involved in the Arcane in his past. However, MOST of the blame goes on Xe'ra for being stupid and not explaining this to him instead of immediately trying to force it.

>>388853324
I don't have the picture with me on this machine, but the basic gist of it is that every 'magic' force has an opposite. Fel is Chaos; its opposite is Arcane, which is Order. Light is Good, Shadow is Evil, as well as the Elemental Forces: Fire, Water, Earth and Air.

Each force is generally most effective when applied to its opposite. This is also the reason why Ashbringer does not immediately annihilate every single demon within line of sight: Ashbringer, as a force of Light, is only partially effective against Fel, aka demons. It is MOST effective when applied against Shadow, aka undead.

>>388853331
He burned out his eyes and sacrificed his soul, which also caused him to be outcast from his people and made Tyrande, who he lusts over, scorn him. I'd call that a pretty big personal cost.

>>388831864
interesting that Legion tries to improve the story, but it's still a single player online experience

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>>388852815
If you bother listening to the old god dagger that never shuts up she lets you know that the naaru are an anomaly, they have "family" for lack of a better word, inside the void. Naaru go through life cycles, shifting back and forth from light to darkness, we are led to believe that the light cycle for a naaru is incredibly short, and that any extension of this light cycle is even more of an anomaly. It's possible that the light naaru were simply biding their time and waiting for "the chosen one" to show up, a vessel powerful enough to be the vessel for sargeras would afterall be a fitting host for all of the light's power. Of course now their advantage is lost and it all swings back to the void now.

>there is no "chosen ones"
Honestly I got a flashback to when I started when he said that. I liked playing an MMO where you weren't some starchild of destiny, just some asshole who wasn't smart enough for the trades so you had to join the army.

>>388852815
Who says someone can't be mind-controlled into having faith in the Light?

>>388853487
Hence why I don't blame Illidan for acting to defend himself. I blame him ONLY for his ignorance of the nature of Light and Fel.

Like I said early. Most of the blame is on Xe'ra trying to be a dictator. The writers completely fucked Xe'ra's character (such as it was), as from what I know of Na'aru, none of them would have been foolish enough to try what Xe'ra did.

>>388853825
>He burned out his eyes
To get better ones
>and sacrificed his soul
To get the one that can't die
>which also caused him to be outcast from his people
He expected them to praise him for doing that, he also expected his people to suck his dick for making another big gate for the legion right away
>And made Tyrande, who he lusts over, scorn him
He expected her to come to him until BC
>I'd call that a pretty big personal cost.
I don't
The only time he actually needed to make sacrifice(and it was just sacrifice of his edgelord feelings) was now, and he pussied out

>>388849616
Illidan just has shit /d/ taste

>>388853779
>Alterac valley is a mirror of warsong gulch
>dwarves all but wipe out the stonespire Tauren in southern barrens
>move to take undercity during wrath, then declare war on the horde
>restart the war in cata
>horde characterization is shat on so they can end the war they started by invading org
>attack the horde unprovoked once again in legion
Alliance are gud boys. They dindu nuffin

>>388852476
>best for other people
Best for themselves. Void exposure fucks with naaru, that's why one of the first things you do as a priest is either pump a void naaru so full of light that it is purified or use shadow to suck all of the void out of it so it can heal.

Plus it was playing around with dangerous unknown power that gave the Legion a foothold on Azeroth in the first place.

>>388854006
Because from what we have seen of mind control in the Warcraft setting, it does not dramatically alter the personality of the victim. It forces them to obey commands of action, but I have never seen an instance of mind control that altered the thoughts of the individual.

Not even the Emerald Nightmare did that; it deceived the victim with illusions, but could not change the actual thoughts of the victim. This is shown in the fight against Cenarius: He thinks that the players and Malfurion are agents of the Nightmare, an illusion from his infection.

>>388853928
Na'aru do indeed have a Light<->Shadow cycle that they go through. I have never played a shadow priest so I can't speak for what the dagger artifact says to you, but given its direct relation to Shadow, I would take anything it says with a hefty pound of salt. As for the chosen one; yes, that essentially was the idea. To find a vessel strong enough to infuse with the Light to an unprecedented degree.

Understand this; Sargeras, as basically the avatar of Fel energy, is immune to everything Illidan has. His mastery of Fel can harm lesser demons, even greater ones to a degree, and can strengthen his body to allow him to inflict physical damage, but Sargeras is the size of a planet. Illidan could never harm him physically. As the avatar of Fel, he could never be harmed by Fel energy either. Illidan, in his current state, is helpless against him. To change this, Xe'ra wanted to purify Illidan and infuse him with Light instead, allowing him to harm Sargeras, even though Light is only partially effective against Fel. The best counter would be Arcane, Order, which was used by the Titans, but the Titans are all gone (as far as we know, besides the soul in Azeroth), and none of the naturally occuring Arcane entities (such as Alumeth) really seem to give enough of a shit to help us.

>>388854681
All the Risen are mind controlled, and they still use the Light. Zeliek was forced to use the Light too.

>>388831864
the scene would have been better if Turalyon actually killed him

>>388854681
>The best counter would be Arcane

Where is it indicated that Arcane magic is especially effective against Fel beings? Just because they're on opposite sides of the cosmology doesn't mean it's a fire and water situation. If it were, nature magic would be especially potent against necromantic energies. But that's never really been the case.

>>388854608
I'm not going to argue morality. If you think that the Horde has the moral high ground here nothing anyone in the universe can say is going to change your mind.
Fact is that the Alliance has all the motive and opportunity in the world to do to the Horde what they did to all those other factions, yet the Horde remains completely intact.

>>388855034
Their ACTIONS, as well as Zelieks, were forced. His faith was his own, however.

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>>388853928
Xal'atath whispers: The Light would have your kind remain obedient and stagnant. I offer the gifts of freedom and strength. I hope you remember my kindness. (in Sunwell Plateau)
Xal'atath whispers: I know the naaru consider us horrors to be resisted. We do not share this view. They are merely beloved brethren that lost the true path. They will return to their masters... in time.
Xal'atath whispers: Do the naaru speak of the eternal conflict? That the entire history of your world is but a fraction of the time that has passed? Of those that came before the draenei? No? <short chuckle>
"Xal'atath has a mind of its own. Ignore its maddening whispers. Do not trust the lies it spins. Take from it what you need, but always remember that the dark presence in the blade is not your ally."

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>>388855109
That's because all the necromantic magic that we have seen has used Shadow magic as a medium, making Light its counter.

Found the picture by the way.

>>388855152
I'm not arguing high ground. I'm pointing out that despite what many alliance posters believe, there has always been aggression from both sides. Yet you seem to think only horde should be punished for it.

>>388855193
Their actions included forcing him to use the light against his will.

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How can lightcucks even compete?

>>388847150
never, but it's clear where blizzard has gone with this, the Naaru clearly try to indoctrinate their followers by thinking they have free will, that's literally what they did with the Draenei and Velen and why Turalyon eyes go from gold to brown the moment Xe'ra dies.

they are going with the "the are no good and evil", the light and the fel powers are not inherently evil or good (see warlocks, demon hunters, or paladins from the scarlet Crusade, Sir Zeliek)

while the old gods like to corrupt and turn everyone into a puppet, the naaru do the same thing but just in a more subtle way

>>388855476
He's not saying that, he means that the Alliance should have had the means and motivation to wipe out the Horde many times throughout the years but they haven't yet because of dumb plot decisions

Why are there no fucking lore characters in WoW that just retire and live a life of solitude? The only one that comes to mind is Drek'thar. They've been reusing the same heroes since Warcraft: Orcs vs. Humans, and every time they try to make a new one for WoW, autists sperg out and they drop any attempt to make them a likable character.

>>388854681
Fel isn't inherently resistant to Fel, and in fact the Arcane is incredibly weak to Fel as evidenced by the entire Pantheon getting their asses kicked by Sargeras using Fel alone.

>>388855870
>implying that the alliace could actually take down the horde in the past, when green Jesus was still in charge, and the horde was more unified than ever.

>>388855476
Yes, you know why? The Horde is a few straggling refugee nations that should have a population of negative ten thousand by now. The Alliance contains multiple well-established agrarian nations and outnumber the Horde over a thousand to one.
Remember Daelin? He had a rushed humanitarian-aid fleet that was in no way prepared for war and he fucking crushed the entire Horde. The Horde should be pissing their pants at the thought of provoking the Alliance but instead they've been attacking them at every opportunity and violently occupying Alliance territory for years.
It doesn't matter who is right or wrong, it doesn't matter that you think the Forsaken are totally allowed to do whatever the hell they want to the people of Lordaeron. What matters is that the Alliance are acting completely illogically, out of character, and against their own interests.

>>388855435

But if your(?) supposition is correct, the logic still holds that nature magic (such as druid spells) would be especially effective against things like the Scourge. Or even vice versa, with Scourge spells being especially effective against treants and the like. But that's never been the indication. With the exception of Light and Shadow, it's not implied that these forces are a clear counter to one another.

The fact that enemies of certain types simply tend to do Shadow damage is due to the nature of the game. Demons also trend towards using spells and abilities that deal fire and shadow damage, and we still recognize them as fel beings.

>>388855603
Yes, but his ability to summon the light was based on his faith in it, which was his own.

The light forced his action, not his belief.

>>388855720
Turalyon's eyes went back to brown because a major source of Light power 'died'.

>>388855109
Forgot to address the first part of your post, but the biggest example we have of Arcane being effective against Fel is the Titans. Sargeras, before his corruption, was a Titan, and all the Titans were embodiments of Arcane, of Order. They created worlds and so forth; brought Order to Chaos (Fel is basically Chaos).

All the Titans are gone now though (with one exception, but she is not in a position to help us right now), none of the player character mages are strong enough to take on Sargeras with the Arcane, not even Khadgar is, and the natural embodiments of Arcane (like how the Void Gods are the natural embodiments of Shadow and the Na'aru are the natural embodiments of Light) have shown that they do not give a flying shit about our conflict.

>>388856075
>and he fucking crushed the entire Horde
No, he crushed some trolls who didn't saw it coming
When Horde attacked back Jaina was forced to suck their dicks for them to not burn her entire city.

>>388855870
Because then they'd be assholes and people would be asking where they are when the world is ending.

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>>388855435
We unfortunately missed out on all the links in WOTLK between arthas and yoggy in ulduar. I remember that long questline that has you following the ghost of arthas through icecrown and then going below ICC and finding his heart. All of that supposedly linked to the fact yoggy had some influence at some point over arthas. Also if you need a better example of how easy it is for the old gods to corrupt arcane shit all you gotta do is look at ulduar or literally all of MOP where shit would be corrupted on a daily basis by the sha. Is there a good example of old gods corrupting something of necromantic origin, or even just undead? Thinking on it, it certainly leads more to the idea of sylvannas going nuts and giving herself to the old gods cause shes afraid of going to super hell, also xalatath is found literally in tirisfal glades, not too far from undercity.

>>388832996
>when numbers take you away from fun

>>388856208
But if the Light is fueled by faith how could he be forced to use the Light against his will, that can only mean his faith was being forced against his will.

Anyway, you're an idiot if you think Xe'ra was just being a bit too pushy and wasn't going to MC Illidan into being an avatar of the Light.

>An actual decent discussion on lore, which, although I'm out of the loop, doesn't seem completely poorly written and is almost engaging

did i time travel back to 2004

>>388856208
But that's wrong, Arcane is weak to Fel.

>>388856442

Don't pretend that Warcraft was ever well written. Fun and engaging, absolutely; but it's not well written.

>>388856208
>but the biggest example we have of Arcane being effective against Fel is the Titans

But that's not an example at all. That's honestly just an indication of how magic is presented throughout Warcraft - mages delving into forbidden knowledge and becoming seduced by the power of demons is a relatively common occurrence.

As far as I know, if a mage in the Warcraft setting shoots some arcane missiles at a felhound, it won't do any more damage than expected. There's no reason to assume that an Arcane-empowered Illidan would somehow be more effective against demons.

>>388855908
Sargeras was the strongest 'warrior' (using the term loosely) among the Titans. When he was corrupted by Fel, none one among the Titans could match his strength.

>>388856113
It is important to remember that spells in this universe have three components: the desired effect, the medium by which it achieves that, and the power source it draws upon. For our example of necromantic magic, the desired effect is to raise an undead zombie (or skeleton or whatever), the power source to do this is the Death sphere, but the MEDIUM BY WHICH THIS IS ACHIEVED is through Shadow magic.

Why it is that all the examples we have regarding necromantic magic use Shadow as a medium instead of its native Death variant is unclear. I am of the opinion that the very nature of the Death sphere is such that handling it as a medium would simply kill the practitioner, unless they themselves were undead. Since all undead were originally alive, and presumably learned their necromancy while alive, they may simply be using Shadow as a habit when casting spells while undead.

This is why Light magic is so effective against undead creatures in the universe: they have all been raised using Shadow magic as a medium, something which the Light is most effective against. Using the Light essentially severs the shadow magic giving undeath to the creature, it removes the medium from which undeath is achieved, making the creature fall dead again.

Nature magic is still effective against undead creatures since they are, understandably, intrinsically part of the Death sphere, but it is not as effective as the Light since the medium for that undeath was Shadow magic.

If we were ever to see an undead raised using magic from the Death sphere, we would see that reversed, where Nature would reign supreme and the Light would be only partially effective.

>>388839879
I think plenty of us played back then, just doubt many of us actually made it to sunwell content. Raiding back then wasn't no joke.

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>>388856295
If anything though Xavius is the perfect example that you can switch masters on a whim if you want a different kind of power or your master thinks youre trash and not worth giving power too. Bear in mind that all of the power sources seen in >>388855435, so that means fel, light, arcane, nature, necro, shadow. All of these are essentially ""power""" however arcane is the sole one where your base power is something you alone as a mortal can simply know and control. All of the others you have to attune yourself extensively and show your servitude to the powers to use them, necro is kinda iffy but its just a different way of saying you can generate your own power and then use it to raise undead, of course we see this in only a few necromancers that are mortal and not undead. So that leaves nature, fel(which is kinda obvious), light, and shadow(which is kinda obvious), all of these require you to basically forever be coming to a deity to ask for more power, there's very rare scenarios like illidan eating the skull of gul'dan, where fel isnt transferred from deity to disciple. Another good example is pitlords, they are literally bursting with fel energy and their blood is a very potent source of it, just drinking from that will give you a good power boost, of course you're gonna have a fel hangover for the rest of your life the stuff is like heroin.

>>388856918
>Sargeras was the strongest 'warrior' (using the term loosely) among the Titans. When he was corrupted by Fel, none one among the Titans could match his strength.

Yes, no-one. But Sargeras killed all six of them at the same time, and the Chronicles specifically says that he was able to do it because the Arcane is weak to Fel.

>>388856918
>Why it is that all the examples we have regarding necromantic magic use Shadow as a medium instead of its native Death variant is unclear

It's simply because of the nature of Warcraft as a video game. Regardless, neither the games nor the lore gives any indication that Arcane is especially effective against Fel. If anything, it simply depends on the power of the mage or warlock involved.

>If we were ever to see an undead raised using magic from the Death sphere, we would see that reversed, where Nature would reign supreme and the Light would be only partially effective.

This is assuming that your claim is correct, which is not a given. One could even argue that Arcane should be most effective against necromantic energies, as it is attempting to restore the natural order of things (dead things stay dead). But I honestly doubt that is true, either. These forces simply exist in conjuction with one another, but are not directly in opposition, for the most part.

>>388841929
Does Xalatath actually call the Na'aru out on their bullshit? Please give me info on that, that'd be interesting.

>>388856430
I'm not sure how much clearer I can be.

Zeliek had faith in the Light in life. He then died and was raised. He kept his faith in the Light.

His slavery via undeath forced him to summon the Light against the PCs, who were invading Naxxramas at the time. The MEANS TO DO THAT was his faith, which he could not let go of (which is a recurring theme among paladins).

Imagine as if every time you raised your hand, a bolt of lightning struck whatever you gestured at. It's part of your nature, not something you can give up, without cutting off the arm anyway. Now you are mind controlled and your body is forced to raise its hand against another person, frying them with a bolt of lightning. Your knowledge of your ability has not changed; neither has your attitude towards the innocent person. Zeliek himself tells the PCs to run away as he does not want to fight them, but is forced to.

>>388856794
Arcane is essentially Order. Bringing Order to Chaos negates the Chaos. It's like pouring water on a fire.

>>388856514
Arcane is weak to Fel AND Fel is weak to Arcane.

When it comes to opposing powers, it really does seem to depend on which instance is stronger; they both have larger margins against each other than against other spheres. In-game, we see plenty of extremely powerful Fel creatures. Archimond, Kil'jaeden, not to mention Sargeras himself, whereas we have never glimpsed any powerful Arcane creatures. All the Titans fell long ago, and we never see them. We do see Aluneth in the Arcane Mage artifact, but Aluneth, like I said earlier, doesn't give the slightest shit about our conflict with the Legion and is essentially forced to expel its power as the mage directs, which undermines its effectiveness.

Aluneth is supposed to be an extremely strong naturally occuring Arcane entity, but the maximum amount of power that it can expel is limited by the player character's strength. If the PC were to force Aluneth to use more, the PC would just die of a magic overdose

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>>388842096
not the original Blood Knights, we enslaved the light

>>388857558
If you take a shadow priest anywhere near naaru she talks endless shit about how you shouldn't trust their motives. It's really heavy during the Lights Heart quest.

>If Illidan is the chosen one, he will fulfill the prophecy no matter what, because he is the chosen one, he will always do the right thing

When will you realise that the lore is shit?

>>388843232
>But Lucifer didn't reject the tyranny, he wanted to replace it.
I don't know why everyone ignores this fact

>>388857627
That's bullshit Anon, you have zero fucking basis for suggesting anything about that method for Zeliek. Using the Light isn't just "oh you've got faith so you flick your wrist and Light comes out independently of that faith", it's something you need to will into happening, and Zeliek outright DID NOT WANT to use the Light, ergo his will in it was being forced.

>>388857627
>Arcane is essentially Order. Bringing Order to Chaos negates the Chaos. It's like pouring water on a fire.

That is the theory, but so far you haven't presented any proof along with it. As far as I know. there is nothing in the games, or in books and other materials, that state that demons take more damage from arcane spells. If there is, and you post it, I will gladly concede.

>>388832074
yeah

>>388857654
I think some of the writers in BC wanted blood elves to go into a more edge lord race and then During WOTLK development they realized how stupid it would be in the long run and just returned them to their high elf roots except they are in the Horde because Sylvanas. also all the Edge Lord Blood elves died in the outlands, whats left would be the peaceful Blood Elfs who just wanted to smoke hookah all day.

>>388857854
Epic shitpost

>>388857318
Yes, Arcane IS weak to Fel, and visa versa. Like how Fire is weak to Water and Water is weak to Fire; it all depends on how much Arcane vs how much Fel there is.

>>388857524
That is incorrect. We do have examples that Arcane is strong against Fel when it is stronger than the Fel. The chief example of this is Sargeras before his fall, where he easily smashed the Legion over and over again. The only things that stopped him from wiping it out completely were the fact that the Legion would hide from him, but in direct combat, Sargeras crushed every single demon (Fel entity) that he saw, as he was a powerful Arcane entity.

As for the second part of your post, I freely admit that my conjecture on the usage of Death as a medium is based entirely on logic and what seems reasonable, and has no evidence whatsoever. We have zero examples of anyone using Death as a medium for a spell, so we simply can't be sure. It may simply be that no one in our neck of the in-game universe has thought of using Death as a medium, or the right spell simply hasn't been created yet.

As for Arcane being effective against Death, we are again delving into pure theory here and have no credible evidence for any of it, but I am of the opinion that it would be somewhat effective, much like how the Light is partially effective against Fel. It does seem as though several spheres have similarities between them and tend to be on one side of the 'alignment' battlefield; Light and Life seem to be very closely connected, as do Shadow, Death and Fel, which would explain the 'partial effectiveness' that we see in many examples where spheres that are not direct opposites clash with each other.

However, although Arcane may or may not be partially effective against Death, I HIGHLY doubt it would be stronger than Life. The nature of Death is not to bring the dead back to life, but to allow the dead to continue to exert influence on the world around them.

>>388858425
>Water is weak to Fire

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>>388857627
>Arcane is weak to Fel AND Fel is weak to Arcane.

Stop talking shit.

>>388858425
>as he was a powerful Arcane entity.
What kind of idiocy is this? Sargeras was a god fighting ants. He has literally cut planets in half, it doesn't matter what kind of magic he used.

>>388832640
So he's anti-trump

>>388858425
>Like how Fire is weak to Water and Water is weak to Fire; it all depends on how much Arcane vs how much Fel there is.
>six Arcane Titans aren't equal to one Fel Sargeras

It's like saying a cup of water is equal to a volcano because it's the same thing as an ocean.

>>388858501
Yes?

Fire melts ice and evaporates liquid

>>388858054
Zeliek's body was forced to make the somatic components necessary to cast spells against the player characters. The desired effect of these spells was to harm the players (desired by Zelieks master anyway), the power source for the spells was the Light, and the medium by which this was achieved was through his faith in the Light.

If Zeliek had fully fallen and lost his faith in the Light, he could not have been forced to use those spells, even if all other factors were the same.

His faith was his own.

>>388858115
Like I said earlier, the vast majority of all of this is pure theory, based entirely on what logic can tell us. However, you seem to be setting up a standard for proof that no one could adequately supply. As a video game, nothing takes more damage from any source (unless a debuff of some sort is applied prior) for balance reasons; nor do any books that I am aware of explore the issue of the Arcanes efficacy against the Fel. Seeing as how the Titans are all already dead, the books seem to focus on contemporary characters instead. The ONLY exception to this that I know of is the Harbingers animation, where Khadgar disintegrates a Dreadlord with a single spell. Dreadlords are one of the strongest creatures that the Legion has in its arsenal (besides 'bosses' like Kil'jaeden'), but Khadgar, as an extremely accomplished mage with mastery of Arcane magic, is able to burn it to ash with one spell. Beyond that, there is no proof in the game or other materials (that I am aware of) which can support the opposite-vulnerability hypothesis. Believe of that whatever you wish; until we get proof either way, we simply have no way of knowing for sure.

>>388858425
>We do have examples that Arcane is strong against Fel when it is stronger than the Fel. The chief example of this is Sargeras before his fall, where he easily smashed the Legion over and over again.
>in direct combat, Sargeras crushed every single demon (Fel entity) that he saw, as he was a powerful Arcane entity.

Sorry, but this is a clear example of confirmation bias. There is absolutely zero reason to assume that Sargeras' effectiveness against demons was due solely to his affinity for Arcane energy, and not simply the fact that he was incredibly powerful - there was no single demonic entity that could match him in strength. If he was using Light or nature magic, he would have been just as effective at killing demons.

A red dragon can slaughter thousands of kobolds with its breath, but that doesn't mean that kobolds are weak to fire in particular. It's simply due to a massive disparity in personal power.

>>388858762
If you were to go outside and stomp ants, how many could you stomp with your feet until the rest burrowed into the ground and hid from you?

Now ask yourself, how many ants could you annihilate by pouring gas over the area and setting it on fire?

A whole lot more. Sargeras used Arcane magic in place of a gas can and a match, but the idea is the same.

>>388859073
Sargeras was a warrior titan. The others were not. To extend your metaphor, Sargeras was the volcano and each other Titan was a cup of water.

>>388859128
>Zeliek's body was forced to make the somatic components necessary to cast spells against the player characters.

Except there's no "somatic components", it's purely a matter of faith and will and not any physical action. Not to mention your entire conception of Warcraft magic being made up of a mix of effect, medium, and power source has zero goddamn basis in the lore outside of your own mind in the first place.

>>388847758
You mean besides the fact that all paladins and priests live in churches?

>>388859128
>However, you seem to be setting up a standard for proof that no one could adequately supply.

It's hardly an outrageous standard. If your claim is that demons are particularly vulnerable to Arcane energies, then show me an example of this in action. If you cannot, then perhaps you shouldn't be making the claim in the first place.

Khadgar is a bad example, because he's fucking Khadgar. He's one of (if not the) most powerful mages on the planet. It's like putting the Lich King up against a Stormwind guard.

>>388858246
>all the Edge Lord Blood elves died in the outlands, whats left would be the peaceful Blood Elfs who just wanted to smoke hookah all day.
clearly you've never been to Silvermoon

>>388859459
Yes, there are somatic components. Zeliek makes gestures when he casts spells.

As for my concept of effect, medium and power source, it is the ONLY theory which I know of that explains the Shadow-Undead circumstance and the disparities in power in combating it, and fits into the rest of what we know about the games magic system.

If you can come up with another theory which explains it with no holes, I would be ecstatic to hear it.

>>388859168
See
>>388859321

>>388850274
didnt one of those things die to a regular eredar in the beginning of legion?

>>388859321
>If you were to go outside and stomp ants, how many could you stomp with your feet until the rest burrowed into the ground and hid from you?

If I was Sargeras all of them, because I could turn a continent inside-out with the back of my hand.

>The others were not. To extend your metaphor, Sargeras was the volcano and each other Titan was a cup of water.

How the fuck does being a strong Warrior negate the incredible Arcane power of six other Titans? Aggramar was a top warrior too and it still specifically says he got his ass kicked because Titans are weak to Fel.

Seriously address this shit >>388858649 because until you provide proof positive of the opposite you're just talking out of your ass.

>>388859321
Your analogy there doesn't fit. I'm not a titan that can just tear the planet apart and kill all the ants without the need of fire. This still doesn't prove that his affinity to arcane had anything to do with his strength. He was chosen to fight the demons because he was the strongest, not the most arcane.

>>388859885
The problem was already scaled for you before hand. Additionally, turning a continent inside out with a backhand is all well and good, but does nothing to address the other continents on the planet. Particularly since the Legion was able to traverse space fairly easily and could flee the planet and relocate. It would make much more sense to utilize Arcane magic to explode the planet immediately, which is exactly what Sargeras would do.

Also you are misconstruing the word 'warrior'. In this sense, warrior means 'ability to combat another', it is not meant to confer a sense of physical superiority. Sargeras was by far the strongest in combat of all the Titans, which is why he defeated the other Titans so easily, even Aggramar. Sargeras' strength in the Fel (after his fall) overcame the other Titans strength in the Arcane. Once that crucial point is passed, the weaker power falls quickly due to the efficiency of opposing powers.

>>388860032
The strongest IN THE ARCANE. Past a certain point, physical strength means little, particularly since Sargeras is the size of a planet and none of the Fel creatures come even close to his physical size. It was his strength in employing the Arcane in combat which led to him being chosen.

>>388859826
>See

That still doesn't address my point - regardless of the type of magic used, Sargeras still would have wielded overwhelming power, more than any demon (or even an army of demons) could have opposed.

You cannot use Sargeras as an example to support your case, because we have no way to determine just what amount of power (of whatever type) was needed to in order to destroy the amount of demons he did. He can cleave planets in two with his sword (and has before). Does that mean planets are weak to swords?

Without Sargeras, your argument has absolutely no merit. There is nothing, whatsoever, to support your theory that Arcane magic is particularly damaging against fel beings. It's not supported by anything. At all.

>>388859826
>Yes, there are somatic components. Zeliek makes gestures when he casts spells.

Yes, but making a gesture has almost NOTHING to do with casting a spell. A Paladin doesn't need to do a ninjutsu to heal somebody, it's entirely a mental matter of will with movement being ancillary.

>As for my concept of effect, medium and power source, it is the ONLY theory which I know of that explains the Shadow-Undead circumstance and the disparities in power in combating it, and fits into the rest of what we know about the games magic system.

In other words you're just making it up. As it is there isn't even any evidence that Death and Shadow are distinct magics from each other at all.

You want an answer? Light is strong against Voidshit Undead and Fel Demons because it's the shiny good guy magic and those are the icky bad guy magics, and Nature and Arcane aren't because they're esoteric stuff for hippies and nerds to turn into cats and shoot lightning bolts.

That is the core basis for how magic works in Warcraft, and trying to rationalize it further is nothing but an exercise in futility.

>>388831864
And now everyone pretends like the light is just another great evil like the legion that corrupts and enslaves.

Fucking neck yourselves you actual morons. Fucking pathetic. Illidan is a stupid, pathetic cucked Mary Sue that always fucks everything up.

>>388855071
I would have been so fucking happy if that happened. I would love to see the look on all the Illidan loving faggots out there.

But it doesn't surprise me that he could just grab the sword since the swords in Warcraft are basically blunt paddles.

>>388860369
>implying Sargeras needs to use magic to blow up a planet

you seriously know nothing about the titans don't you?

>>388855224
Are they good guys?

What other classes have this? Frost DKs do.

>>388860490
Sargeras wasn't the strongest in the Arcane though, he was just the big tough guy. In fact almost all the other Titans were better with Arcane then him.

>>388860369
>Additionally, turning a continent inside out with a backhand is all well and good, but does nothing to address the other continents on the planet.

Then I, Sargeras, will just do it again and again until they're gone, or just cut it in fucking half.

And again, how the fuck is Sargeras - Who was never said to have any particular magical talent, supposed to have beaten both Aman'Thul or Norgannon, the masters of Arcane, just by being able to swing a sword good? In WoW if you throw a Warrior up against two Mages two Shaman and a Druid the Warrior isn't going to win just because he is more physically powerful.

>>388861072
Arcane staff and Demonology skull also talk to you about ancient times.

>>388848316

t.reddit

>>388831864
Taking a break and going back to FFXIV for a while, so fucking tired of all the black rocks and green slime and demons spouting "YOU FOOLISH MORTALS HOW CAN YOU POSSIBLY HOPE TO DEFEAT ME!" before being defeated.

Atleast FFXIV knows how retarded it is and has some fun with it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40TLAQkdAlY&t=

>>388848316
People still post this meme nonironically?
The fucks happened to this website.
It's the equivalent of someone posting doge.

>>388860683
You are making the mistake of associating physical size with killing efficiency. Individual demons are like gnats to him, to be sure. His use of Arcane was most likely for a blanket, wide area attack that would spare him the bother of swatting them manually. Like fumigating your house rather than hunting down each and every cockroach.

As for your argument of being unable to measure terms of power due to Sargeras being so beyond any force the Fel could muster, we can look at the example of Khadgar vs Dreadlord that I mentioned earlier in the thread.

>>388860703
Somatic components are a core feature of magic in the Warcraft setting. This is inarguable. There are no cases of anyone casting magic of any sort without some somatic component.

Also, somehow I knew that you would resort to the "its a video game so it doesn't have to conform to logic" excuse. Additionally, questioning the futility of employing reason in any capacity is not the same as questioning the reason itself.

The existence of the Death sphere is largely assumed due to the existence of the Life sphere. Given that we know for a fact (as in, been confirmed from official Blizzard sources) that Light and Shadow are polar opposites, we must assume that the other sources of magic we see have polar opposites as well. Fel, as Chaos, is the opposite of Arcane, which is Order. Fire and water, earth and air, ect. Now we come to the problem of Life. We know that Druids use Life magic. Given the existence of opposites in every other instance, there must be an opposite to Life: Death.

I will admit that it is possible that we simply misunderstand the intrinsic nature of the undead, and they may truly be part of the Shadow sphere and not the Death sphere in some way. Perhaps Death is simply another word for Entropy, and the undead are animated using Shadow as a power source. However, even if that were the case, it does not violate the effect/medium/source hypothesis involving spells.

>>388861562
You have that reversed. WoW is the one that knows how silly the lore is while XIV tries too hard to be serious

>>388850562
>Tyrande literally had no idea Illidan even liked her

doesn't matter, there's tons of NTR doujins with characters like illidan and tyrande where they don't express their feelings yet someone ends up fucked

>>388860982
>I would have been so fucking happy if that happened

>I would have been happy if a character was killed after defending himself, by some faggot throwing a bitch fit

Illidan has done a LOT of stupid shit in his life, but killing that chiming fuck was not one of them.

Why are people ITT defending wind chimes? They were one of the worst additions to the lore in BC and Xe'ra getting BTFO is one of the best things to happen in Legion. They're literally just uppity light elementals, actual lightspawn deserve more respect.

>>388831864
Its the only time he showed any resemblance to his personality from wc3.

>>388861049
Cleaving a planet in half is not the same as completely exploding it. Given that demons have shown an ability to survive in space, fucking up the planets atmosphere would do little to hinder them. Blowing it up like a Death Star would take out any demons on it, instead of leaving some alive on the cloven bits that are left.

>>388861384
Incorrect. Additionally, you are expending energy that could be better used towards blowing up more planets, or utilizing Arcane in some other way.

And again, you are proving my point for me. I've been saying this ENTIRE TIME that physical strength meant little in fights that Sargeras got into. It was his ability to use the Arcane IN COMBAT that was his strength.

>>388861562
Hildebrant and Godbert are awesome.

>>388861914
Lightcucks trying to cover up the very obvious "naaru had ulterior motives the entire time" plot coming up by saying it's silly to be suspect beings who go so far out of their way to be seen as "good"

>>388848726
but kaelthas was never a warlock?

>>388861786
That's just not true. Warcraft's "story"(if you can even call it that) is fucking retarded at this point, and WC3 and early WoW were some of my favorite games ever. Warcraft main story is always taking itself incredibly seriously while FFXIV has just been a borderline comedy show so far. It has it's serious moments, but there's far more silly shit in FFXIV than in WoW.

>>388841929
>trusting a servant of the old gods

>>388861747
>is use of Arcane was most likely for a blanket, wide area attack that would spare him the bother of swatting them manually

And his use of that power would be so overwhelming that no demon could hope to survive it, supposed weakness or not. This does not prove your case.

I don't think you understand just how powerful Sargeras, or any of the Titans, truly were. They were pretty much gods. The power disparity between them and pretty much anything else was so great, that it is ridiculous to assume their ability to kill demons was due solely to their affinity for Arcane magic. Your logic is flawed.

>we can look at the example of Khadgar vs Dreadlord that I mentioned earlier in the thread

And I already shot that down. You used an example of an immensely powerful mage against an enemy that wasn't anywhere near his level. If it was a Pit Lord, I could see where you're coming from, but otherwise it was the expected outcome for any mid tier villain that goes up against Khadgar.

>>388861914
Because Illidan is a shit character and wiping his retarded ass away would have been far more satisfying. Especially with how asshurt his fanboys would be.

Instead they gave him 5 more layers of plot armor

>>388862232
Warlock and mage are mostly arbitrary definitions added in WoW. In TFT Kaelthas used some spells that vanilla warlocks had and some that vanilla mages had, but over time Blizzard has slowly moved all of those spells over to fire mage. There was a bubble in cata/mop where they gave warlocks the kaelthas aesthetic through spells and soulshard glyphs, but now it's swung back to mages again. If TFT kaelthas were a WoW character he'd be half mage half warlock, just like spellbreakers would be half warrior half mage.

>>388862473
you can trust the obviously evil thing to be evil

but what about the being that tries it's hardest to make sure everyone thinks they're the good guy?

just because my knife is obviously evil doesn't mean I should ignore the cold hard logic.

>>388862681
I want Illidan gone too but I want windchimes gone more. Hopefully by the end of the expansion there won't be any left, the light was better as a fundamental force rewarding dedication and fervor without a voice or pseudo-leader/divinity.

>>388862202
All these "The light was evil all along!" theories comparing the light with the legion that Illidan dick suckers are now blurting out left and right are some of the most retarded shit i've ever seen.

Goes to show how fucking stupid the majority of WoW players today are.

>>388846494
they listened to the players who hated him so they killed him off

same reason why illidan tipped his fedora at xe'ra, the chosen one shit in the book was not received well

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>>388852815

>>388863031
The light isn't evil, it's just a force. It's the Naaru who are evil, but just because they use the light doesn't make the light an evil force. It can be freely used for good or evil.

>>388862986
Illidan will be getting his dick sucked super hard for the rest of the patch with windchimes gone

>>388861747
>You are making the mistake of associating physical size with killing efficiency.

Why? He could literally slap a planet and destroy every Demon on it without using Arcane at all. Not to mention there were legions and legions of Titan constructs he could use to hunt down any survivors.

>Somatic components are a core feature of magic in the Warcraft setting. This is inarguable. There are no cases of anyone casting magic of any sort without some somatic component.

You have zero evidence stating that it is the essential component to magic, especially to the point that what an individual is thinking or wants to do is irrelevant.

>"its a video game so it doesn't have to conform to logic" excuse.

Except that's not what I said, what I explained to you is the internal logic Blizzard used to formulate for the magic. Paladins & Priests = shiny and good against dark. Arcane and Nature is less shiny, so it's not as good. It's that fucking simple.

>Now we come to the problem of Life. We know that Druids use Life magic. Given the existence of opposites in every other instance, there must be an opposite to Life: Death.

Except both life and death aren't magical concepts, but physical ones. Druids do life magic by controlling and communicating with life itself through the fifth element, Spirit, while on the other hand "death magic" is just all magic interacting with souls and death, Shadow/Void and Fel are the same thing in this regard, and if you want to get nitpicky the only "pure" death magic would be Shaman interacting with souls and the spirits of the dead through Spirit.

In effect they're not actually two different realms of magic that contrast and oppose each other, but two sides of the same realm of magic which are influenced by different things at different points.

>>388863179
That sucks but I'd rather they glorify some retarded edgy failure than the personifications of bad retcons and abysmal story ideas.

>>388862121
>It was his ability to use the Arcane IN COMBAT that was his strength.

Name a single time Sargeras used the Arcane in combat.

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imagine having a low enough IQ to still care about or even play this shit

>>388863381
>Illidan
>not the personification of bad retcons

r o f l

>>388847009
there's no proof he'd lose his will at all, this is just speculation. or you're the same guy posting this shit in every thread

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>>388863130

>>388863576
Pro-tip: don't post anime girls when talking about IQ if you don't want to look like a jackass.

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>>388863130