LAUGHING OUT LOUD

>want to play fallout for first time in my life
>buy fallout nv because people say 4 sucks
Did I make a huge mistake?

>>388822094

If this actually becomes the norm or successful, the videogame industry is beyond redemption.

>>388822482
It has been running as a thing on warframe and a few other game for over a year.

>>388822474

Fallout 4 isn't an RPG so if you were looking for an RPG then New Vegas is the better choice.

>>388822474
Yes

>>388822482
You'd think it wouldn't. This is akin to paying geek squad to hook up a game console to me. Anyone with even remote experience in modding should be able to tell it's a scam. But video games have proven time and time again that they defy logic and common sense.

>>388822474
No, NV's a good starting point.
I recommend you play the first two fallout's as well

>>388822474
New Vegas sucks, you fell for the memes

>>388822094
I want to go back to a simpler time... I want to wake up and have this all be a bad dream. I want to go back to a time where modder created amazing mods because they were passionate about the game and community, not because it'll help pay their rent. I want to go back to a time where gaming wasn't a fishing market for large corporations to dip their hooks into the water and see how many consumers bit it. I want to go back to a time when games weren't pumped out time and time again to meet a deadline and a profit margin set by the publishing company. I want to go back to a simpler time...

>>388822094
Wow, I can't wait to buy creation club credits for some free games

>>388822474
Well, you bought the best Fallout instead of the worst

>>388822474

you made the right choice

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>>388822474
you can't have these in fallout 4
i say you did right choice but it's only to you what you prefer

>Recent: Mostly Negative
it begins

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>>388822094
Are they fucking serious?

>>388823183
No, it's a joke. You fell for it. The game.

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>Credits system so they can fuck people even harder

>>388823183
Of course they're serious. On the plus side of things from what I hear, these mods actually have to be finalized and checked for compatibility. In other words they have quality control. I'm guessing what this means is if you have an armor mod on there for example you can't have it be one of the ones you have to open the console to get. That's really about all the positives I can think of, it offers no advantages from just downloading and installing your own mods.

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>people aren't allowed compensate for their work

>>388823498
No one makes mods expecting compensation.

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>>388823498
IT'S NOT FUCKING FAIR. I shouldn't have to work an hour a week at McDonald's just to afford my retarded Reddit mods!!!!1211!!

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>>388823498
>Bethesda taking more than half the profit for work modders' used to do for free to fix their shitty broken games
>Selling literal retextures
>Selling inferior versions of already existing free mods

>>388823481
>they have quality control
This is Bethesda we're talking about. They don't QA their own games, what makes you think they will QA every single mod that gets submitted? At most they did the first batch and only because that will be peoples' first impression of the system.

>>388822474
NV is the best game in the series. Great NPC interaction, enormous selection of weapons, well-balanced character building (skills and attributes), plenty of opportunity for roleplaying, just an extremely great game overall.

- Don't buy any credits or show support for it.
- Message Bethesda about your dissapproval.
- Only use mods from the NEXUS.
- Tell everybody you know to do the same. (including your 87 year old grandma and tyrone down the street)

>>388823657
>don't pay for mods for 25 years
>suddenly fuck you, pay me

thought payed mod is finished at that time, guess not

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>>388823498
>this
>work
"no"

>>388823651
No one makes art expecting compensation

>>388823668
Its Bethesdas game, thats like expecting to make more more than the CEO

>>388823745
>what are donate buttons that everybody except entitled millennials used
>what are potential legal issues with the developers by charging an actual up-front price

>>388823657
You're right it isn't. That's over 7 dollars depending on where you live >>388823753 No way in hell I'd spend anything on that.

>>388823790
You're suggesting creating the software modding is done in entitles bethesda to more than half the profit is like saying microsoft is entitled to half the publishing industry's profits because authors write stories in word.

>>388823790
That's like expecting a book's author to make less money than the people who chop down trees to make paper.

>>388823737
>>388823737
>>388823737

>>388823668
>Selling literal retextures
This.
Bethesda had to sell the concept of paid mods as something to be celebrated instead of derided. They had to sell the concept of 'micro DLC' as the new future. And what do they launch with? Big game changing things actually worth paying money for? Nope, just skins. Including a 'Horse Armor skin', just to rub in the customers face that Bethesda was and always will be the harbinger of the ruining of DLC forever.

>>388823854
If you're able to waste money on shitty Bethesda games you're able to waste money on mods for their games. Deal with it or start buying better games.

>>388823481
In case you forgot the first paid mod implementation had mods that were broken, mods that you can only get via console, mod that broke the creative commons license by using script extenders they were not given persmission to use and mods that were made only for specific gender and race and were clipping otherwise. Mind you, those mods were selected by Bethesda themselves for their grand reveal.

>>388823884
No its like a book's author to make less money than the book publisher which they do

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can't wait for horse's pussy mod costing 100$ again

>/v/ is too poor to afford $7

lol

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>>388823951
>Buying bethesda games

Reminder that the creaton club "mod" files are predownloaded, what you are actually paying for is the ability to activate them.

>>388822542
Difference is warframe has cosmetics only, passing a rigid selection.
This thing is mods, cosmetics now because they are lazy but any kind of mod could pass "inspection" and end up in there.
It's paid cosmetics vs paid mods

>>388824003
The publisher at least does some work
Bethesda "prooftests" the mods, but we all know how good they are at keeping their games' stable.

>>388824036
This. Modders spent months, years working on these high quality DLC, they should get paid for their hard work! 7$ is the least you should pay for quality such as this. This is a great deal and you don't get it then you're stupid.

>>388824036
I'm convinced anyone who uses the "too poor" argument for anything is simply shitposting. It's only ever used to justify instances of companies being objectively scummy.

>>388824164
TOO POOR

>>388824042
A filthy pirate doesn't have the right to complain about anything.

>>388823994
Clearly someone at Bethesda/Valve didn't think the first release through.
>>388823951
Regardless of the quality, I'm still paying for a video game that took months to make by a large team. I'm not gonna pay any amount for something that would be used for a tutorial for the creation kit.

>>388824118
If the genuine modders "reaaallllyyy" wanted to get payed for their work, they would make their own website or something similar with a paywall before you can download their work.
The very fact that they post their work on sites like the NEXUS for free means they are doing it for fun. For the passion of modding. For the community Not for money.

>>388824198
>Implying that if this catches on I won't pirate the mods too

>>388824104
>The publisher at least does some work
And what the work of putting a system in place for them to distribute and get compensation

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>>388822615
>>388822679
Good job g-boys

>>388824274
That system already exists, it's called Nexus Mods, and it works better than this aberration.

>>388824260
>guy makes music and puts it on youtube
>hurr i guess you don't want to be a musician and make a living off this :^)

>>388824291
You probably voted Trump lol

>>388824409
If he wanted to make a living out of it, he would sell it on Itunes or something.

So, given they are essentially getting paid upfront before you even properly buy a mod. Just how much do you think Bethesda is skimming off the top for themselves? Do you think mods have to even earn a specific amount before Beth will even pay anything out?

>>388824345
Except that has a shit way to compensate people and they aren't tested to actually work

>>388824442
Dwayne Johnson is our next president. Then Snoop Dogg after that.

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>>388822474
No?

>>388824492
>They aren't tested to actually work
Do you honestly expect Bethesda, BETHESDA, to make sure that their content works?

Other than that, yes, the donate button should be more visible.

>>388822474
F4 is my one and only buyer's remorse. So anything is better than this fuckin piece of shit

>>388824578
Yep. Duke Nukem Forever is the shit compared to FO4. GOTY.

Did Bethesda really need to create this schism in the pc gaming community just for more money? What's the point? Make another couple hundred thou (being generous) and make gaming worse for everyone for years to come?

I'm assuming no, but is there any method to obtain Creation Club credits besides paying?

>>388824442
>implying
i'm not american, hell i never been in USA

>>388823937
I'm sure some dumbass marketer thought that putting in the horse armor would be so funny and get everyone laughing about how trite DLC used to be, but the whole thing stunk so much that it just looks like they are rubbing in your face how the house always wins.

>>388822094
I don't have any problem with paid mods conceptually. Dudes have done some incredible work with mods that greatly lengthen the playtime and enjoyment one can have out of a game, why would payment be out of the question?

>>388823753
But THIS is some bullshit.

>>388824564
Show me a creation club mod that doesn't work

>muh donation
Yeah go up to your boss and say you will only take donations, no more pay checks

>>388824260
diff guy.

modders put their mods out for free because that's how it's always been. if it becomes commonplace for mods to be in a paid marketplace, then that's what more modders will do.

this system is dangerous.

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>>388822474
>I'll never play New Vegas for the first time again

>People are unironically defending paid mods in this very thread
Jesus christ, /v/ is done. I thought /co/ was bad with the tumblr infestation, but this is something else.

>>388824669
Show me a creation club mod that actually needs testing and isn't just a texture swap

There are expectedly few of those.

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>>388824639
You are bothering me.

>>388824479
Creator Club modders are allotted 45% of the proceeds on individual mods and % of proceeds on bundled mods. Zenimax retains 45% of all Creator Club Credits (3C) sold and additional 10% are earmarked for site maintenance and improving the user experience.

>>388824639
They are trying to get people acclimated to it for when they make it mandatory for modding tes VI and Fallout 5.

>>388824471
They do

>>388824757
The NEXUS will never die. If people are stupid enough to actually PAY for mods, then they deserve to lose their money.

>>388822474
They're all boring as fuck.

>>388824823
Until Bethesda splits the base even further by making Creation Club the only way to mod games.

>>388824823
Nah man, I mean you will literally have to use Creation club to make mods and you wont be able to activate them without it either.
Bethesda wants to go full closed garden on this shit.

>>388824675
Don't forget SkyUI's creator tagged along with the first system when it was released too and you could only get the most recent version by paying for it. A mod which many mods for Skyrim used to simplify choosing options. So yeah, the idea of modders being divided like that over free or paid is pretty dangerous for mods in general.

>>388824694
There's no logical reason not to have them apart from "That's not how it's been done before".

But once again a lack of good quality control results in a store filled with shit.

>>388824823
They're setting a dangerous precedent

>>388822474
Should have grabbed 1 or 2.

>>388822474
Don't listen to these retards. You'll have a great time with NV.

>>388824961
fuck off todd

>>388825048
Fuck you jeff

>>388824961
>There's no logical reason not to have them apart from "That's not how it's been done before".
You could make the same argument for charging for bugfixes. Is this the road you want to go down?

>>388824961

They'll never get mods that, for example, break copyright or contain explicit content (based on the Creation Club, we will never get anything except skins, but at least in theory it could have quest/land mods).

>>388825103
"I walk a lonely road.. "

>>388825103
> charging for bugfixes
If this is successful you'll technically be paying for bugfixes before you're actually paying for them since Bethesda is so incompetent at fixing their own games.

>>388824961
>"That's not how it's been done before".
That's a very good reason. They're changing a long established system and offering nothing in return. They are in fact making the average user experience worse instead of better. And don't say "curation" because that was already done by the community itself in the form of ratings, upvotes, and number of downloads.

You're essentially saying that you'd be fine if Youtube started charging your account a nickel for every video you watch. No reason not to, right?

>>388824639
They only care about money anon, nothing else.

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>>388822094
can you afford NOT to buy it?

>>388825187
Bethesda... more like.. BugFesta! amirite?

>supporting content creators is a laughing manner

OP and everyone shitting on this system is an entitled cunt. Mod creators deserve to be compensated for their work and you're a top-tier asshole if you disagree.

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>>388822094
>tfw sex mods will never be paid mods
I'm safe

>>388825239
there phrase is "Laughing matter" not manner

>>388825239
They don't. Do not turn hobby in to bussines. It will turn in to shit.

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>>388825239
I wonder who can be hiding behind that post

>>388825239
implying i can't compensate modders through the nexus. turning everything into paid mods isn't good.

>>388825239
Gabe, is it you?

>>388825236
u r rite

>>388825306
>do not turn video games into a business

>>388825194
Why have you misinterpreted "There's no reason paid mods shouldn't exist" as "all mods should be paid"?

>>388823498
>Paying Bethesda even more money for the work other people did to fix their shitty games.

You're the type of asshole who would pay for patches too I bet.

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>>388825306
>They don't. Do not turn hobby in to bussines. It will turn in to shit.

[citation needed]

>>388824118
Then why does bethesda and steam need to get a cut? Put up a fucking patreon and hide it behind a fuckin' paywall my dude.

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>>388825213
W-what if creation club dollars skyrocket in value like bitcoins??

In 5 years maybe one ccc is worth hundreds, or THOUSANDS of dollars, you'd be a FOOL not to buy as many as you can afford now.

I missed the bitcoin rush but I'm sure as hell not gonna miss this.

>>388825410

Devs work on patch
Dev worked on patch on company hours, paid his salary
Dev paid a salary producing a patch
Why shouldn't the fucking patch cost a premium so the devs can recoup money lost paying wage?

>>388825542
They cannot be turned into real currency, anon.

>>388825542
Nice try, Todd.

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>get free oxygen
>get free carbon dioxide to go with it
>over 25 years later you can buy it for $0.99 with OXYCREDS for $5.99
>...or just get it for free
Are you for fucking real right now?

>>388825514
>Then why does bethesda need to get a cut?
Why shouldn't bethesda get a cut? The content exists ultimately due to bethesda's work on the original game.

>>388825567
I know you're joking, but there would legit be a second industry crash if someone tried that.

>>388825103
No you couldn't, because there are plenty of logical reasons not to charge for bugfixes.

>>388825602
Yeah, they made a shit job, and now you need mods to enjoy it.

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>>388825567
I'm not sure if you're serious or taking the piss at this point.

>>388822474
I got bored of playing fallout 4 whitin an hour or two, so no.

Kreation Klub Kredits. KKK. I see what you did there.

>>388823498
People have created mods without compensation for two decades. People demanding compensation are scabs, and going against the counter culture of consumerism.

>>388825653

Xcom 2: War of The Chosen was litterally a paid patch. It included fixes and optimizations the base game sorely needed. Bugs STILL in the base game are patched by WoTC.

So obviously it's not a problem for 99% of us.

>>388825410
And why are you ignoring the main point of my argument in favor of poking at a shitty analogy?

If you are changing an established system, you have to be improving it in some way. Progress for its own sake is just as fallacious as never changing because that's the way it's always been done. Bethesda has illustrated time and again that they have no regards for quality control. Bethesda's last attempt into paid mods included blatant theft and plagiarism that slipped right past them. Bethesda has shown that they are incompetent, incapable, and unwilling to put in the effort to actually improve end user experience. Not only that, but it sets a dangerous precedent. The highest downloaded mods for most Bethesda games are simply bugfix patches. Now that Bethesda is getting paid for these, what incentive do they have to release bugfixes of their own? Furthermore, their major argument that they are offering curating is already destroyed since the community has curated itself via ratings, endorsements, and download rates.

They are offering no benefits for the end user and in many ways are making the experience worse. Don't try and appeal to morality by guilt tripping me with a "Don't modders deserve it?" because I don't care. What are they offering to me and other users that is an improvement over established systems?

>>388825685
>shit job
subjective

but we agree bethesda has the right to do it.

>>388825572
>They cannot be turned into real currency

tell that to Bethesda

>>388825602
>autothesda builds a car
>shop opens up that will perform services on your car, including fixing manufacturer problems and adding aftermarket parts, does it all for free
>autothesda demands a cut because they built the original car

yes, this makes complete sense

>>388825763
Aw shit, meant for >>388825404 That's embarrassing.

>>388825746
DLC that includes bugfixes =/= Paying for bugfixes

>>388825805
>car analogy

fail

>>388825772
shit job is not subjective, it is shit job

>>388825850
>ad hominem

actual fail

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>>388825665
Okay. Why should TES VI not have $0.99 bugfix patches?

>>388825837

There are still people pissed about that, but War of the Chosen is good enough that most were going to buy it anyway.

>>388825602
Nothing entitles bethesda to third parties labor on post sale items. Thats like having to pay my RAM manufacturer everytime my gpu updates drivers. It makes no god damn sense.

>Buying games

>>388825876
>ad hominem
lel high school phil student

>criticizing a shit argument is attacking the presenter

lel

>>388826037
>Nothing entitles bethesda to third parties labor on post sale items

It's their product.
It's their service.

read the mod tools EULA ;)

>>388825909
>game is released
>full of gamebreaking bugs
>review scores suffer because of it
>have to pay 99 cents for day 1 patch that fixes gamebreaking bugs
>decide not to and just say it's a shit game and be finished with it
that's why todd, now shut up.

if you want to support modders go donate to them instead of pretending to care about it now that its todd endorsed
better to give it all the the creator instead of having a 50% cut go to some jew

>>388825909

It will kill the game's value, especially considering with Bethesda how many bugs need to be fixed by patches. It will breed customer resentment, and encourage even more people to wait for the "GOTY Definitive Ultimate Todd Cocksucker Edition" that includes all the DLC, which now includes necessary patches, which means less money per sale, and fewer pre-orders which is apparently how you sell games to shareholders now.

From the user side, with physical products, if there is a defect when I buy a product, I can return it and get a refund without question. We're actually very lenient with companies when it comes to software.

>>388825909
Because they aren't bugs they are features, that's why they are still in the special edition.

>>388822474
dont listen to todd, fallout 4 is shit

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>>388826184
>>have to pay 99 cents for day 1 patch that fixes gamebreaking bugs
The first one is free. All future bugfixes are now $1.49, review scores are saved. Now what?

>>388826037
That's how licensing has always, always worked. Do you think Disney doesn't get a cut from all those EU books? In fact, while I'm having trouble finding evidence in either direction and would appreciate help there, I do believe that the 'fee' for creation club is lower than the cut that most license holders take from licensed works. Last time this popped up, there was a reddit post from the AMA to that effect, but I'm having trouble finding it and don't remember if it had any sources cited anyway.

>>388823498
way to grossly oversimplify the whole situation you fucking idiot

>>388825763
>And why are you ignoring the main point of my argument in favor of poking at a shitty analogy?
Because your bad analogy seemed to imply that was the problem. Paid mods existing does not itself prevent free ones from existing.

As for improvements, incentivizing people to create mods that users would actually WANT to spend money on can absolutely result in higher quality content over mods that are exclusively free, assuming you have the right external influence, tools, and quality control. But it seems like you're arguing more against this specific implementation rather than the idea of paid mods, which isn't really what I was talking about to begin with.

>>388826240
>especially considering with Bethesda how many bugs need to be fixed by patches
That just means more bugfixes that make money :)

I'm curious why the video game community has never taken to donating to creators. Good artists have little trouble getting donations, patreons and such. I buy prints from artists I like all the time. But the only way mod makers can get money is by turning their mod into a full game and selling it, as far as I've seen. Why is that?

>bethesda actually pays people to be assholes and shill their shitty anticonsumer 'service' that could singlehandedly destroy the modding community for some of the most moddable games in existence.

your company gets worse and worse.

fovr, dvfr and skyrim vr are going to fail, because they're garbage fires. your company will collapse, and you'll deserve it.

Why do the patch notes say "support for additional content"? Is that just the creation club?

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>defending paid mods
>"Buy our game then pay us money for content other people made which are needed to make our game worth playing because we're bad at games"

Top
meme

Bethesda are retards

>>388826432
Because mods are unofficial bolt-ons atyached to products people have already paid for. There's always the worry of compatibility issues with ganes that get updates or the studio C&Ding the modder. After having paid once, why pay again for something that may get shut down?

>>388826419
>As for improvements, incentivizing people to create mods that users would actually WANT to spend money on can absolutely result in higher quality content over mods that are exclusively free
History has shown this is not the case and is already a self-correcting system. Modding has never been steered by money before and there have been a large number of amazing works. If people make incredibly popular mods that are worth the money, they go ahead and release them as full games. See DayZ and Black Mesa for two specific examples.

Has there been one case of a very popular modder saying "Great, now I can spend more time modding and make even better stuff!" or is this all speculation? In fact, I've seen exactly the opposite. The creator of Script Extender has refused to allow his mod to be used in paid mods. Without it, mods are very limited. Until we actually see evidence of money encouraging better mods, this argument is flawed.

In fact, we actually saw the opposite. During the last attempt at paid mods, the average mod quality actually suffered a sever decrease as people rushed in to get quick cash for no effort.

>>388826184
Should have bought the season patch, are you poor?

>>388826301

As I said here >>388826240, the problem is that when you fuck with your customers they eventually get tired of it and stop buying from you. Sure, you might sell TESVI, but expect that people won't buy TESVII or Fallout 5 until everything is bundled together, or just not buy it so they don't support your shitty business practices. It's all business, there's no convincing moral argument for or against, you just know that doing that is bad business.

>>388826301
Now you're thinking like Sega. Don't even tell people future patches will cost money and while you're at it sneak Denuvo into your game. Oh, and make sure to gift everyone who preorders a free copy of Arena! Not everyone will fall for this classic trick but the ones who do and end up playing it for a bit will kill the chance they had to refund the game.

>>388826506
Season 2 season pass content, two more expansions and another workshop extension "DLCworkshoparchitect"

supporting modders is different when the publisher is getting a cut
why bother including as much content as possible when you KNOW you can just outsource a bunch of it as "mods" and rake in free money for literally doing less work?

im all for modders taking donations but these jews need to keep their greasy kike hands out of the tip jar

>>388826597
Even dumber people buy it though, so Bethesda isn't retarded, just greedy.

>>388826679
>Not everyone will fall for this classic trick but the ones who do and end up playing it for a bit will kill the chance they had to refund the game.
Were there actually any reports of people being unable to refund the game, or is this just speculation?

>>388826608
why would the modder get C&D for something that was already approved and published in Bethesda's own Creation Club?
that would be a legitimate concern if it was posted on some external source instead

>Buy 20 mods
>Game won't load
>Spend hours on google and fucking with 3rd party software while in offline mode so steam doesn't ban you for breach of ToC to get the game working
>No refunds
>coolface.jpg

This is what is going to happen.

Additional:
>Mistakenly connect to internet while 3rd party software is open
>Lose steam account

If this becomes as popular as I think it will they can employ people to make mods for them to sell, they will then make 100% of the profits.

>>388822094
>meanwhile paid version was proven to be superior in everything exept high res textures
Looks like modders will have to finally fight over the market

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcldh21R40M
How can one company be this incapable

>>388826815
But the last attempt at paid mods was supposedly curated too and had blatant plagiarism. There's at least one case of a mod that got through Steam Workshop and was sold in Dota 2 as a cosmetic getting a C&D and getting pulled from the store.

They have shown no evidence that this won't happen again.

>>388826672
>you just know that doing that is bad business.
I know that, but vidya devs and publishers always get away with bad business that (on paper) should tank them. They do it all the time. The point of this red team exercise is to prove that charging for bigfixes won't happen. I still don't believe it can't -- this is the same industry that went from memory cards and no hard drives to day one patches and mandatory installs the very next generation.

>>388826913
>dragged out to 10 minutes for that sweet ad money
Just get to the fucking point.

There a reason the pip boy shows up in the armor workbench now?

>>388826432

People download literally hundreds of mods. Even if they only end up using/liking 50% of them, that would still be $50-$100 of payment at $1 a mod. I think you also overestimate how many people actually pay for artists on Patreon compared to how many people view their art. There's also a difference between patronizing an artist to make something for you and tipping them for the thing they are giving out for free.

>>388823753
wait, how much are these reskin cost?

>>388826669
>History has shown this is not the case and is already a self-correcting system.
>In fact, we actually saw the opposite. During the last attempt at paid mods, the average mod quality actually suffered a sever decrease as people rushed in to get quick cash for no effort.
great, so your evidence for modders literally hating money is because there has been a shitposting storm at launch mainly driven by /v/ itself, attention whores and some disgruntled cucks who didn't claim ownership of their shit, that was quickly shut down before it could even settle and have proper metrics measured over how effective it really was.
sure the way it was implemented was an absolute dumpster fire, but it doesn't mean it proves financial investment can't improve mods.

>>388826669
>If people make incredibly popular mods that are worth the money, they go ahead and release them as full games.
Why should that be the only route? What if the incredibly popular mod that's worth money is intertwined with the game it's a mod of (as, say, a new area / quests / etc)?

>Has there been one case of a very popular modder saying "Great, now I can spend more time modding and make even better stuff!" or is this all speculation?
Of course it's speculation. The only two instances of paid mods were the disastrously terrible first one, which had exactly none of the things I suggested would make such a strategy successful, and this one, which I gather has zero as well.

>In fact, we actually saw the opposite. During the last attempt at paid mods, the average mod quality actually suffered a sever decrease as people rushed in to get quick cash for no effort.
Read the rest of the sentence you quoted. Putting aside all the problems associated with retrofitting a free mod ecosystem with a paid one, the fact that the store was flooded with garbage by amateurs looking to make a quick buck was caused by the complete lack of quality control. That's a solvable problem.

>>388826778
>DLC purchased from the Steam store is refundable within fourteen days of purchase, and if the underlying title has been played for less than two hours since the DLC was purchased, so long as the DLC has not been consumed, modified or transferred
In other words I wouldn't be surprised if it were true. The question of whether or not it was deliberate is up in the air.

>>388826978
>>388826978
Right,the fucker is too slow. So here it is:
The creation club pre-loads every single file on your PC even if you didn't buy it. Meaning you're wasting drive space and network speed on something you're not using. At the moment it's around 700Mb but it will get bigger with each mod added.

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>>388826669
>The creator of Script Extender has refused to allow his mod to be used in paid mods.
based

>>388826936
>But the last attempt at paid mods was supposedly curated too
no way in hell it was
people were just selling crap like individual ingame items/gear for huge prices, also some silly shit like huge horse balls

>>388827168
That isn't what I asked.
I wanted to know if anyone tried to get a refund and was refused one specifically because of the free game.

>>388827187
>The creation club pre-loads every single file on your PC even if you didn't buy it.
Kek, it's on-disc DLC all over again

>>388826938

I'd bet if you looked at other game industries, like Barbie dolls, you'd see similar stuff. It turns out kids don't care about how much something costs and parents are willing to pay $60 + bugfixes to shut them up. Maybe with more parents playing video games themselves they'll start steering their kids toward less shitty developers. A man can dream.

>>388823498
Modders don't do it for the money. That is just not the point, at all.
t. sexlabs modder
the point is to cum buckets

>>388827245
>on disc DLC made by players

jesus

I'd be happy to pay money for actual content. I refuse to pay Bethe$da money for non-employed fan created mods with 0 quality control.

>>388827328
Yeah.. that's fucked.

>>388827328
crowdsourced DRM when?

>paying for free mods

Literally cancer

>>388827302
dude, not every mod is done by some dude in his spare time, there's also Jamal who's studying over the game mechanics and he wants to increase the quality of gameplay, but he needs to eat.

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>>388827232
Happy now?

>>388827245
The funny thing is wont this just make it easier to pirate them? Can you even call it piracy if Bethesda themselves have forced them onto your HDD/SSD?

It's even funnier when you think the god-awful season pass doesn't even give you any credit towards these.

>>388827512
OK, thank you.

>>388827492
Then Jamal should find a job instead of trying to sell something that people give away for free

>>388827492
I mean if you're capable of making Bethesda mods that aren't just reskins, then you probably got potential in programming.
Programmers don't lack in finances my man. Jamal should hook himself with a freelance web design job or something.

>>388827512
Thanks for the account.

>>388827582
This.

Reminder that a new version of F4SE is needed for every new version of F4.exe and the exe updates every time the creation club updates.

In short, modded fallout which uses non-creation club mods is absolutely and entirely broken until the f4se guys update f4se for every creation club update.

>>388827158
>Why should that be the only route?
It's not the only route. There's also donations, and there's always been the option to force a payment before downloading. Sims and Second Life modders do this. Big difference is that they're not crashing an established system and splitting the base to do so. There's patreon too now. Ad clicks on the modder's site. There are dozens of ways for content creators to get paid these days. And indirectly too since many modders use their mod and its popularity on resumes when going into game design.

>Of course it's speculation.
Honestly, even some comments from popular modders saying that they will now afford to mod more often will be a point in this system's favor, but again, we've seen the opposite with popular creators boycotting the system.

>Read the rest of the sentence you quoted.
I already addressed that. Bethesda has shown a complete lack of regards to quality control in their very own game. Even Valve has allowed plagiarism in through the workshop. There is no evidence to show that 'curation' even exists, much less will be effective with Bethesda's track record. And again, you're ignoring when I mentioned that the community is already more effective at curating their own mods through endorsements, ratings, and download rates. Bethesda has to offer a better curation system than what's already there, and their track record shows they will fail miserably.

(snipped your replies for character count, but I read and addressed them I believe.)

>>388827637
f4se is shit anyway
>wahh I can't get mah cheevos if I add in Godlordkiller Gun

shut the fuck up bitch

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>>388825542
Y-yes goy you have to spend money to make money

>>388827512
considering how Steam's refund shenanigans work, I'm suprised more people didn't see this coming.
I mean, Sonic 1? maybe if they gave away Generations or Lost World, but they literally used a genesis ROM as bait and people were all THANK YOU SEGA WHAT A GREAT GIFT 10/10 GAEM

>>388827719
Yeah, good luck building without place everywhere.

>>388827719
Script Extenders are needed for most mods which aren't texture replacements or some minor additions; if you want stuff that adds cool content to the game/modders to be able to really do what they want then you need a script extender. Anything from added enemies/gameplay elements/mechanics-things which are now considered pretty much essential for Skyrim or Oblivion for example-are impossible without a script extender.

The point here is that you are limited to paying for shitty, tiny mods in the creation club unless you want to only play F4 whenever the script extender is updated, because having the SE installed will break your game when creation club updates.

>>388827512
I just want to point out this isn't the dev team's fault. Blame SEGA, in particular SEGA of Europe, for this mess.

Best way to disable/forbid auto updates on steam? I seriously don't wnat any of this CC shit.

>>388827960

You could also turn off automatic updates, but that won't help new players. Maybe now you'll just pirate the game if you want to play mods.

>>388827983
It's completely asinine to blame the devs for this, it's the publisher who pulls the strings for marketing and dealing with sales.

>>388823737
>>388823737
>>388823737

>>388828078
>>388828028

You can't disable updates on Steam
Your only options are
>update now
>update when I launch
>update when idle
You are forced to update to newest before you can launch the game

>>388827707
>There are dozens of ways for content creators to get paid these days.
And why is this particular method off the table? There's certainly an argument for it - "Getting donations" / "Doing it for the experience" and "getting paid for something you created" are two completely different types of incentives. One is guaranteed to drive production more.

>And again, you're ignoring when I mentioned that the community is already more effective at curating their own mods through endorsements, ratings, and download rates.

I'm ignoring it because it has nothing to do with what we're talking about. All of those measurements could easily continue to exist with both paid and free mods. The kind of curation and quality control I was referring to is on the end of the developer determining whether it is or isn't sensible to charge for a particular mod.

And I already explained that I'm not making an argument for whatever Bethesda's doing here specifically, I'm talking about paid mods conceptually. Conflating the two makes discussion impossible - you're suggesting any quality control can't be done for any paid mods because Bethesda, specifically, is garbage.

>>388827802
The weird part is I was able to get a refund, and my request was reviewed and accepted within an hour. I preordered it on the 11th so I'm not sure why my request was accepted while other had been denied.

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>>388822474
>bought the best modern fallout

>>388822474
You should probably have started with FO, then FO2, and then you can choose between 3 or NV.
3 is quite empty, bland and straightforward, with a shit main and only 3-4 good sidequests, but somehow the world is nice.
NV is full of factions, main is decent, world is fucking huge with a lot of interesting places and you can roleplay as a fucking cowboy.

>>388828246

Oh, you're right. I guess pirating the game for mods is the way to go then.

Question.

What's stopping people from throwing the assets and .esp for these addons up elsewhere for download for free.

Or did they introduce some new method of piracy protection for mods?

>>388827492

Actual software dev, these people should get a real job and not expect hobby-grade scripting and sticking-things-together in the creation kit to make them money.

There are plenty of jobs that pay banks, and plenty of ways to use programming skills to make money in your spare time.

The 'How are modders supposed to eat?!' argument suggests that there is NO other work for them to do, when there in fact is absolutely shitloads out there. I get recruiters contacting me every day.

>>388828496
CC .esls require authorization tickets that get linked to your account for the content to activate.

>>388822570
Can someone explain to me what are the differences in F4 that makes it not an RPG? I see this statement around but can't picture why.

I mean F3 suck but people never say it is not an RPG.

>>388828586
wew

>>388828496
They introduced the .esl format for these mods.

>>388828586
Oh, they made a whole new file format just for this.

lel. Guess they finally got pissed off at how easy as fuck it was to literally copy/paste their DLC expansions.

>>388828586
I give it a week before it's found out to just be a shitty container for the mod assets, and someone figures out how to extract shit from them.

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>Charging money for single items
Isn't the concept of jewing through Creators Club better executed if you put in new areas and quests?

>>388828718
/fog/ already figured out how using blank esps.

>>388825504
Hot girl, who is she?

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>>388828792

>>388828718
The assets are downloaded with the update, the esls are just modified esps. Basically only the .esl is behind a paywall.

>>388828792
It's like fucking poetry.

>>388828786
No because that would require some actual work

>>388827190
Sounds like a faggot to me

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>>388822094
I remember when people were screaming that the video game industry growing is a good thing and that games will only get better with more money involved for their development.

>>388828957
Yeah but who the hell would actually buy the content besides extractors and shills?

>>388825504
I STICK MY FINGERS IN TO MY EEEEEEEEEYES

>>388828617
coming from a guy who only play fo3 and fnv and then trying fo4 I can say for certain that if you like fo3 and fnv for their story element and choice you would hate fo4.

It feels like shooting game with dialogue filled with multiple choices that doesn't have any consequences.

>>388823951
Without a fucking doubt this, stop buying games that are shit and NEED mods to be good.

>>388829039
Remember people actually bought those terrible gigantic swords for Skyrim that clipped on the character's hands during the paid mods fiasco. Gamers are retarded and will pay for anything.

>>388829009
i remember when i was young enough to just play games and never talk about the industry as a whole, free to play whatever i wanted without a single thought to the greater ramifications

>>388829268
I didn't see what paid mods were being sold there, I just thought it was like half-assed armor and weapons I could already get on Nexus in a better quality and customizable though the drop table.

>>388824471
>This
>>388824409
Fucking idiot

>>388822664
Because its dominated by autists and children

>>388824961
Found the retard business shill

Let's say you made a pizza and everyone loved it. Then someone adds some pepperonis to your pizza and everyone loves your pizza more, but it's still YOUR pizza they're adding pepperoni to, and without your pizza, the pepperoni by itself wouldn't even work.

So why shouldn't you get a little extra money for your pizza that's made better by the pepperoni?

>>388830091
>food analogy

fuck off fatso.

>>388825331
Gabe is even worse. They had a similar system for hat makers in DotA, where they were paid for their cosmetic works. Valve decided to jew it up even more and choked out the workshop

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>Bethesda games are notoriously easy to pirate because they're too lazy to make DRM
>Bethesda game mods are notoriously easy to pirate because they're too lazy to make DRM

go ahead boys, "support" those modders hahahaha

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>>388822094
>Physiological horror

>>388828617
no reputation system of any sort, there are never any options for tackling a problem. so the only solution to anything is shooting and you can't even really be good or evil about it.

there's no stats, and your perks don't change what type of character you are. even if you specialize in one type of weapon, the others are still perfectly usable.

since there are no stats or skills, there obviously are no stat or skill checks in dialogue. in this regard, no character is different from another. the dialogue also might as well not be in the game, because nothing you say has an influence over anything.

i know the term RPG has become less defined than the term "gamer" but rpgs, ROLE-PLAYING GAMES, are typically about having your character or characters play a role and be limited to that role. the ONLY role you can play in FO4 is deciding which faction to join. other than that any player-created character will be almost the exact same.

RPG =/= your character having numbers you can increase. that's like saying half-life is an rpg because you can get more ammo. it's about making a character and having the world react to that specific character differently than it would another.

>>388822482
its a norm already no1 is taking up arms around it, enjoy game devs taking a percentage cut out of all fan mods and shutting down those who does not obey their terms.

>>388827512

1. Refund it via bank or Paypal

2. Get money back

3. Just use a new card or Paypal account from now on

It's fine.
The cut theyll get from the paid mods will go to their QA department.

>>388830514
if you ask for a chargeback, you'll get your account banned

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>>388830757

No you won't, I've done it several times. Do you think they will VAC ban you for getting a refund you ninny?

>>388830849
asking the bank for a chargeback =! asking Valve for a refund

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>>388828617

>>388830921

Gabe isn't going to close your account. You lose access to the game unless you buy it again and they won't accept that method of payment anymore, which you can easily get around because it's Valve.

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>>388828617
>>388830995

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This made sure I will always pirate Bethesda games from now on.

No exceptions.

>>388831006
go ahead then, just ignore Steam's refund system and keep asking the bank for refunds, let's see how long your account will last

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>>388831145

I already posted about how I've done it many times.

>>388830995
>>388831054

They're not even bothering with the illusion of choice at this point.

>>388831082

Just stop playing them altogether, you pleb. I haven't played a Bethesda game in years because they turned to shit.

This decision is baffling to me. Bethesda games are infamous for being buggy as shit, needing significant modding to be completely functional. This has only grown worse with time, paralleling the dumbing down of their flagship franchises.

So they take mods and try to monetize them. Really, we should have seen this coming, as they're considered necessary to enjoy a Bethesda game. But instead of putting out decent mods, they make a fucking propitiatery currency that equates to $7 for a pipboy color change. What in the actual fuck.

Is it because normies will eat it up? Is it because no matter how much we bitch, we still buy the games and dump hundreds of hours in?

>>388831215
and I'm telling you to go ahead and keep doing it anon, good luck

I don't want to quote a bunch of people but to everyone who said new vegas is better than fallout 1,2 or even 3: you are a fucking retard

fallout 4 is garbage, sure

>>388823937
>>388824036
>>388823753
>Being this entitled
Honestly you people don't even deserve the games that great devs make.

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>>388831370

So what's your reasoning for 3 being better than New Vegas?

>>388822474
No. It's the best Fallout game in the series.

>>388831370
>angrymanyellsatcloud.png

>>388831441
Because it was his first one, probably. The anti-circlejerk around New Vegas is hilarious

>>388825805
Except they don't just fix manufactures problems and add aftermarket parts, but produce those aftermarket parts using license that was given to them by Bethesda

>>388824198
This.

>NOOOOOO I DON'T WANT THE OPTION TO PAY FOR MODS!!!! EVERYTHING MUST ALWAYS BE GIVEN OUT FOR FREE!!!! STOP BEING SO GREEDY AND EXPECTING COMPENSATION FOR YOUR WORK!!!!!!!

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>>388831684

No one wants to live in your ancap "utopia" where nobody has any passion or hobbies unless they result in direct monetary profit.

>>388831684
You're fucking retarded

>>388826903
Free version has mutliple paint jobs and mods, the paid version is just a reskin of existing armor.

>>388827190
Well luckily for him, wether it was beth.net or creation club, neither allows changes to the game's scripts.

>>388831413
Nice b8 m8

>>388830085
>reeeeee my mods
Just accept it, and move on you obsessed faggot

>>388827719
There is literally a mod to fix that.

>>388827637
That's why you always keep a backup copy of the previous fallout4.exe

>>388831684
>look everyone I'm so retarded I can come up with a retarded argument that nobody is using
We get it, you're retarded. What's the relevance?

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>>388822482
I've been saying this for the past few years, the future of video game is endless Overwatch and Hearthstone clones filled with microtransactions/paid mods/DLC on the disk that you need to pay to unlock.

A few of us tried to warn you all but you didn't listen, as far as I'm concerned the industry deserves to die. Maybe only then it can rise again from the ashes.

>>388822094
Here is the definitive solution to "paid mods":
just pirate them.

>>388831771
>being allowed to make money is bad
>asking for compensation for something you've created is bad
>>388831441
Stirner was a degenerate, and he accidentally created communism

>>388822474
If you want to actually roleplay, complete quests that don't fucking suck, and go into an interesting world, you made the only correct choice available since Morrowind

>>388828340
The issue with this method is that bethesda is claiming the lion's share of the profits from it. Mod makers get less than half of the price of the mod. Even less if Bethesda decides to pair it with another mod to make a bundle out of it.

>>388832389
Why would you pirate mods if they'd be of such low quality like everyones saying they'd be?

>>388832360
>disk
You're still behind the times

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>>388832538
Woah I found a loophole in his argument, people don use discs anymore so it's wrong!

>>388830995
>>388831054
I love how you can practically tell someone at Bethesda was like "well we only need one choice but this atrocious dialogue system is hard-locked to 4 choices so we'll make a bunch of slight variations"

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Notice how all this bullshit only started to come into vidya when the progressive left took hold? I don't think it's a coincidence.

>paying for aesthetic mods in a single player game.
>being surprised at the great big WEW you receive for it.

>>388832930
Not even what I meant, autist. Zero to sperg, nigga, real quick

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>>388822094
I sure hope you guys love Overwatch and Hearthstone because that is the future of video games.

Bland as fuck characters with no proper storyline to speak of in games that have no ending so they can milk them until there is a slight progression in hardware and they release the same thing with slightly shiner graphics.

This is the future you chose.

>>388828617
F:NV:
>What would my character do?

F4:
>What would *I* like to do, right now?

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>>388833084
>Corporate greed is a left thing

You people are literal retards, aren't you

>>388822094
what?
why did this shit fly this time?
how is it different from when they tried it before?

>>388833391
>I want to yell about my son
>I will never ask what the fuck ghouls are
>I will say yes sarcastically, normally, or in a dick way

>>388825602
Yeah because everyone knows writers have to pay Microsoft a percentage of book sales because they used word. Ky bootlicker.

>>388833495
People are more complacent this time. You can't criticize anything anymore without getting dogpiled by an army of brainwashed fanboys.

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>>388833417
>The left can't be greedy

The video game industry is mostly run be left-wingers

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>>388828617
https://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/131716/remodeling_rpgs_for_the_new_.php?page=1

>>388834573
TLDR?

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>>388822094
>tfw the only reason this will survive and be implemented for everything in the future is because of 10 year olds on console who are so hard up for content that they threaten to murder modders who won't put content up for console because it lacks the SE will pay for this garbage and give those kikes piles of money

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>>388833084

Notice how bait lowered in quality when the alt-right took hold? I don't think it's a coincidence.

>>388829360
I wish I was young again, I'd be blissfully ignorant of all these problems and would, most probably, just be able to have fun again.

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>>388834267

Mike, are you equivocating game devs and game studio management again?

They're both shit right now, and it's everyone's fault regardless of political alignment. Being a talentless hack has no partisan affiliation.

>>388835463
I blame /pol/ for inviting r/the_donald in, they've been a cancer on this already cancerous website since the election.

>>388833084
>Drumpf wins
>Vidya goes to shit
Coincidence? I think not

>>388822474
>not playing originals
Ya fucked up. NV is Oblivion with guns.

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>>388835647
Talentless hacks is how I would describe most of the video game industry right now, it doesn't matter if they're left or right politically.

Burn it all to the ground and start again.

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>>388833084
If you want to make dumb assumptions, then I will remind you that Zenimax's president is Trump's younger brother. And guess who owns Bethesda?

>>388835825
>since the election
I can only assume you're new, because /pol/s latest escapades are nothing new for this site. The bigger issue is that our cancer has once again metastasized and been unleashed into the real world

>>388835825

I mean the real connection is that you had a group of people treat 4chan as primarily a political proving ground, instead of, you know, a place for chocci milk, autists, and Roger Elliot.

I'm not saying /v/ was ever actually about video games, but at least there wasn't a centralized party line to tote and the belligerent arguments were over important shit, like killing the Pro-Skub fags

>>388823498
I'm all for Bethesda compensating modders for keeping their games relevant long past their standard life span. I just don't like that they want me to pay them to do it.

>>388835945

Strong Agree

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>>388823737
I'm pretty fucking sure nexus will get taken down if things stay as they are going now, that way bethesda can have full control of the mods.

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>>388836137
>Not supporting Skub

>>388836093
Oh I know it's nothing new, but the recent imports from r/the_donald are really something else.

>>388832437
Bethesda doesn't deserve compensation for mods they didn't create you insipid fuck.

Anyone trying to reduce this to B-BUT PEOPLE DESERVE TO GET PAID should be spat upon, you are complete shills without a single functioning neuron.

>>388824669
Mod creation isn't a job. If Bethesda want's to make sure mod developers get a pay check, hire them to make original DLC.

You know that's not what they actually want though. This is for Bethesda to make a quick buck off of mods.

>kreation klub kredits

Beyond Skyrim: Bruma
Immersive armors and weapons
Frostfall

Those are the only mods I would spend $3 on. Instead, now they want $3 for a single suit of armor.

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>Bethesda has shitty writing
>Bethesda has shitty programing
>Bethesda has shitty games
>"But we get to BUY mods from from people who actually give a damn so that Todd and his gang of inept nepotism-hired buddies can continue to make even shittier, more cashgrabby games! Come on, guys!"

>>388836727
This. Bethesda should hire the best mod makers and have them make official dlc. Instead, Bethesda wants them to work for free, and then will kick them a tiny % of sales off their mods.

>micro transactional mods

I feel ill to be honest, lads.

How are armor/weapon mods going to work for Skyrim? Are they going to added to leveled lists, hence breaking compatibility with other armor mods?

Why did Bethesda make so little dlc for Skyrim? Skyrimbwas a top selling and played game on steam for like 3 or 4 years. Why did they not keep up the dlcs? Seems like they let a lot of money slip away

>>388837328
Because they don't have to. They can just keep releasing it

>>388837328
why make dlc when you can create a system that lets everyone else make dlc for you?

>>388837426
Speaking of which it's overdue for a super extra HD Remake.

>>388823726

Agreed. I would go as far as to say that New Vegas is one of the very few games I've actually enjoyed since 2006.

>>388836954

Pretty much sums it up. IMHO Bethesda is the most overrated developer ever.

>>388836585
>>388836727

I get this vibe they're just being contrarian so they can laugh it off offline as "lol I got those anons good XD"

>>388824669
>I signed a contract of employment with the modding community
that's new to me can you point out when this happened?

>>388834573
geckos are cute

>>388837496

Because everyone doesn't hate you that way. People don't have a problem with decent DLC, it's just all the other money grubbing shite that companies are up to that's irritating.

>not having an archive of few selected mods
>not using sites with banned mods like modern guns
>not using shady polish mod sites with stolen mods uploaded to mega

>>388827302
>Modders do it for the Patreonbux
Fixed that for ya.

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>>388822094
i'm just buying Fallout New Vegas...Todd.

Prove that Bethesda endorses nepotism.

>>388838575
Todd please leave

why is this a thing? didn't valve tried this before and everyone told them to fuck off, what chance does bethesda have?

>>388822474
Nv is trash and you are a fucking retard

>>388838740
Because they can leave you with no other choice

>>388822474
4 is and action adventure game with rpg elements, nv is a rpg with action adventure elements

>>388838823
They did a trial run with this with their latest edition of Skyrim.

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>nickel and diming the community that's been fixing your shitty games for years
Bethesda just shot themselves in the foot, didn't they?

>>388838740
They already forced you to download the CC mods, you might as well be sensible and pay them to activate your horse armor.