What is the hardest fighting game out there to play, with the

>>388774164
Melee

>>388775267
anyone who says smash has this alleged huge skill ceiling never played any of the games I posted in the OP

>>388776006
any game with free movement is obviously going to have a higher movement skill ceiling than any game with a flat surface and auto-facing characters. A toddler could tell you this. Now, the real question is whether Smash has higher combat skill ceilings.

>>388776262
>any game with free movement is obviously going to have a higher movement skill ceiling than any game with a flat surface and auto-facing characters

um, no, sweetie :)

>>388775267
> Pick Jiggly.
> Spam sing move.

You have to take mindgames out of it and just focus on pure execution when it comes to this genre, and when it comes to pure execution 3rd Strike and yes, Melee are the most difficult fighters.

>>388776732
sing is fucking garbage

>>388776732
Sing has been literally useless in every game other than maybe Smash 64
in fact it's so worthless now I wonder why they haven't replaced it yet

How high up there is Blazblue? I mean some of the characters really feel like mountains in terms of skill ceiling and execution.

>>388776876
>>388776985
I haven't kept up at all just it used to be instakill.

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>>388776006
TARD RAGE ALERT!

>>388777789
even in Smash 64, the only game it was useful in, it wasn't instakill.

>>388778002
It was in a combo.

>>388774164
Highest Skill ceiling is Street Fighter 2 Hyper fighting. Hardest to play well execution wise? Maybe alpha 3, although arguably Hyper fighting as well if you look at how important reactions are.

>>388777720
Blazblue is baby mode Guilty gear. GG also isn't even that hard, you have to do a lot of stuff but there is quite a bit of leniency compared to other games of its time, and it's very rushdown oriented, so it's not like you have to do the shit so much on reaction, you are mentally prepared to go for the big combos as oppressed to quickly switching to combo mode.

>>388776876
>>388776985
Great for ledge-stalling though, or even just getting on ledge, considering it automatically faces you in the right direction to grab ledge. I suppose its fairly punishable though

>>388774164
Best footsie game is maybe virtua fighter if you are a memer. Really any competitive game without a dash or many escape options is a good candidate. Again it's probably hyper fighting Tbh.

>>388774164
>tfw will never own a candy cab

>>388779352
I know that feel. Fucking east coast.

>>388778241
nobody plays HF though since it's busted, only ST, and ST is pretty much the same speed

o.ryu is basically HF ryu except his tatsu falls down and doesn't have the cps1 chains

Third Strike is generally high, high-very high skill ceiling. People play totally different than they did in 2009, there's just that much room for improvement, especially on a professional level.

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KOF13.

Footsies connecting into insane combos that most of aren't even gatling.

Played every game you named there and KOF since 94 to 14, Guilty Gear since XX, Street Fighter Hyper to SF5 and I can tell you that KOF13 high ceiling is insane.

>>388779681
HF isn't busted at all, unless you mean fightcade shit, and even ST is the wrong speed on Fightcade. Fuck ST is way more unbalanced than HF.

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Does a higher execution barrier mean a higher skill ceiling? Does this mean the original Street Fighter has one of the highest skill ceilings in fighting games?

>>388779864
by busted I mean it won't work online, yes, not that the game is bad

I'd rather play HF myself but whatever, I play anniversary edition with my friend and we pick the turbo characters

>ST wrong speed

that's because the emulator runs like 5 frames per second faster than the pcb because it's a piece of dogshit so they put it on like turbo 2 to compensate

>>388779885
It's a contributing factor sure. Street fighter 1 doesn't even have high execution at all, it just has a small amount of input leniency. It's not like the game has reversals or anything.

>>388779960
Hyper fighting works if you play Hyper street fighter 2 and just only play with HF characters apparently, but I've heard Hyper sf2 feels different for a lot of people.

The speed of HF in general depends on some ram combinations or some shit so even back in the day people may have been playing at different speeds.

>>388779885
Execution barrier ties into the game being harder to learn so yeah. A higher skill ceiling would infer a higher execution barrier at times, but a higher execution barrier does not infer a higher skill ceiling--to be sure.

>>388775267
The year is 20XX

"Skill ceiling" is just a stupid word for depth. Most decent multiplayer games have enough depth that almost no one will fully master them.

>>388781780
Skill ceiling is a better word because you can articulate if it is lower or higher easily. Many people use depth as a binary. As in it has no depth or it has depth. Depth itself is a stupid word that vaguely means it has competitive merit.

>>388781780
nah there's a subtlety there

>ctrl + f Tekken
>0 results found

/v/ not knowing about fighting games shows again, I don't even like tekken but there's so much shit to learn to even become non-babby tier that it's not even funny

>>388774164

KOF13, some ArcSystem works like Guilty Gear or Blazblue.

For 3D I would probably say some Tekken games although many will argue Tekken is button-mash-to-win they obviously don't play at high level.

>>388782235
memorize framedata then kbd kbd kbd kbd 12 hit juggle combo

tactically, tekken is a joke, it's autistic with a lame neutral game compared to VF or SC

>>388774164
King of fighters?

>>388782235
Tekken is so shit harada refused to release frame data because he knew it would break the games.

3D fighting games seriously aren't competitive. And Tekken is hardly even 3D, it's almost like 2D with a side step gimmick from fatal fury that doesn't suck.

>>388782465
>3D fighting games seriously aren't competitive

t. silver surfer

>>388782323
spot the 09er.

>>388782050
I hate the world skill ceiling because it's often used to generalize games as having a low skill ceiling, while other super special games have a staggeringly high ceiling, with no actual arguments given. We're supposed to assume the poster is as good as theoretically possible and would trade 50/50 with the rest of the best players. Dunning-Kruger effect at its worst.

Super Turbo, 3rd Strike, GGAC+R, and Melee.

All have a pretty high execution requirement and a neutral game that is moderately difficult to learn, which is something missing from their modern counterparts.

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>>388777720
Blazblue is probably the hardest fightan I've played (haven't touched GG). I played for a while and only got decent with Tsubaki, it's definately not a game where you can learn more than 1-2 characters well. Some of those fucking inputs man...

>>388782662
Being good doesn't necessarily equate to rational judgments of how the games systems work holistically or indepth knowledge of the game. /v/ is filled with shitters especially for fighting games. It's not worth putting together arguments they wouldn't understand because they don't even know any of the terminology. This thread is just to state opinions and maybe expand on them if people ask, not to convince others.

>>388782779
>pretty high execution requirement

lmao have you ever played 3rd strike or do you just parrot shit you hear on /v/? All of the characters that people play only require a normal then cancel into super other than that you get damage from footsies or throws since parrying is braindead in 3S. 3rd Strike doesn't have hard execution it's hard on reaction times.

>>388782923
Is this a troll post, it's just a 1080 you babby

>>388782923
Really? Twirl the stick a couple times and press one button? Is that what passes for hard these days?

>>388783002
I've been playing it for 5 years

>>388783002
Also 3S has pretty much all of SF4's input shortcuts including 323 DPs.

>>388776985
Because Smash is not a fighting game

>>388783002
3s has plenty of hard execution, charge partitioning/buffering can be quite hard as can kara combos and quite a few juggles.

Reaction times aren't even all that hard in 3s. more than 09er games for sure but 3s isn't very fast and has decent input leniency.

Some of the challenges in GGXX were insane like Gold Justice.

>>388783002
Saying good things about 3S gives you cred on sites like reddit and /v/ where people don't know that much about fighting games.
Still, execution barriers tend to stop people from getting into games so reducing those without lower the game's depht or skill ceiling and removing important aspects would be the dream.

>>388774164
Gg accent core +r
Also anyone that tells you turd strike, ignore them and never take their opinion seriously again

>>388783178
The only real combos anyone uses is ginei jin shit which isn't really tough and no one is good at Urien other than Rx

>>388779885
No because that would make rhythm games the highest skill games.

>>388783154
3s doesn't have nearly as many shortcuts as 4. And certainly doesn't have the double tap diagonal srk bullshit. The only useful shortcuts is for 360/720s, which is in all SF games. It also has half circle shortcuts but no one gives a shit about that.

>>388783247
*or removing imporant aspects

>>388783295
Lots of people are good with urien you fucking poser. Oro has hard execution as well on lots of stuff, necro has stun juggles, Makoto has her TOD etc. Kara palms with Yun are hard as shit.

>>388783247
It's very trendy to hate on 3s now actually.

>>388783082
>>388783085
>Just a 1080
fucking anime fighters

>execution
>skill ceiling

Soul Calibur has some of the hardest frame-perfect timings of any series but that doesn't make it a high skill game. Pros aren't playing matches where they compete at landing just-frame timings unless they're really cheesable or amenable to muscle memory. IE in SC3 you can learn to slam out iMCF on yoshi but no one is going to try his just frame heals in a real match.

Playing to win != playing at the highest execution level. You should probably look for the most competitive game, not the "hardest"

>>388774164
I personally think bullshit touch of death games like HnK, Jojos and Ultimax 2.0 are the most difficult games to play, because if you fuck up just that one time you lost the round. It puts a lot of stress on you mentally, but I wouldn't say HnK or especially Ultimax are particularly execution heavy

>>388783672
You know your stupid ass can jump then do the 1080 in the air right

What goes on in the brains of people who think that execution barriers have any place MULTIPLAYER games? Who the fuck plays MULTIPLAYER to do what is essentially play by themselves then have their performance compared to somebody else playing by themselves?

>>388774164
unironically Melee

>>388783662
Probably as a response to the dickriding.
The game is obviously good but it's the most used game when attempting to show people how much you supposedly know about fighting games.
It was trendier to hate on it when it was the current game

>>388783247
>so reducing those without lower the game's depht or skill ceiling and removing important aspects would be the dream

It's not possible, execution will always be tied to strategy and will also be essential in seperating players by skill.

More players is also not desirable if they come this way, as they will shit up the community and convince devs to pander to their shit taste.

>>388783728
Yes? It's probably impossible to do it otherwise. Unless you're neo from the matrix and you buffer it during a backdash

>>388783870
If you really want to piss people off, try enjoying ST and 3S at the same time.

Those two communities really like to shit on each other's games.

>>388783523
No one in tournaments plays necro or oro and makes it out of the beginning of the brackets and Makoto's tod hard part is just seeing where the person is going to fall then using the right upper palm after her super it's challenging but not high execution

>>388778489
>>388782923
Actually if you compare BB to Xrd these days I would be more inclined to say BB is hard to break into due to GG having a soft reboot of sorts with Xrd. Xrd is a lot more intuitive so its simpler to get into; damage is also big with shorter combos while in BB you have to really capitalize on OD combos to do big boy damage. The roster size and nuances of drives are also taken into consideration. If were comparing AC with BB though, AC is harder.

>>388783971
There are a lot of top Oro players in both NA and JP.

Necro I'll probably give to you. The only ones were Sugiyama and PinoAB7 and neither are very active anymore.

>>388774164
Toribash

>>388783767
They also have interactive effects. A long directional input means you have to react faster or buffer in anticipation. A 720 is hard as shit to just throw out when just walking. Long combos can be dropped, even dropped intentionally, or otherwise varied for different effects. And most fighting games aren't intentionally made super difficult, in fact developers generally go to significant lengths to make things lenient when they can without sacrificing the game's overall precision.

>>388784057
>fall down once in Xrd
>forced to play extreme rock paper scissors three times and if you guess wrong you die

Blazblue is more lenient with that and the neutral game

>>388783925
I agree that execution is tied to strategy. That doesn't mean that some thing can't be made easier for new players as long as they don't affect the higher levels. This does exist and has been done by multiple franchises.
Your last line was just contrarianism. More people is something that most fighting games need.

>>388784057
There is a reason a lot of people never moved on from AC+R. I don't hate Xrd and still play it occasionally, but I just can't enjoy it as much as the old games.

>>388783971
Fuck off retard. Oro is quite popular and Necro is also played.

>seeing where they will fall

what the fuck are you talking about? the hard part is getting the kara fukaige. The timing is always the same. makoto players know how everyone falls after her super. it's also not universal.

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>>388774164

So let's break it down a little bit by giving different examples.

As far as execution goes, there are a lot of games that require a lot of precision. Most of the Guilty Gear series falls into this category, Vampire Savior, Marvel vs. Capcom 2, and the Street Fighter games to a lesser extent. Out of the games you named, it would be a tossup between Accent Core and Virtua Fighter 4. While you are going to be pressing more buttons and working harder on Accent Core to not drop your combos, the timing is really strict on Virtua Fighter. The game with the easiest skill ceiling out of the examples is, with out a doubt, Super Turbo. You could probably master most of what it has to offer in a month.

As far as footsie is concerned, that is a little difficult, because Marvel is not a "footsie" kind of game (there is a lot of space control, but it has to do with using projectiles effectively and getting in to land a combo). Street Fighter tends to be a footsie heavy game, however.

Honestly, if you are looking to get into fighting games, I would suggest playing Guilty Gear and learning how the combo system works, and move on to the Street Fighters and so on. Almost everything you learn in Guilty Gear translates to being good at fighting games, and since it kind of falls somewhere between Street Fighter and the Marvel series, it makes it one of the easiest transitioning points. Of course, you are only as good as your competition, so time to make friends who like fighting games, fast.

Also, a brief note on Melee. The game is no where near as hard as most fighting games, but there are interesting mechanics in it, it moves at a brisk pace, and some of the top level stuff is not easy. Since the controls are fairly simple, it is pretty easy to start, but most of the skills don't transfer to other games, so it really isn't a logical choice. It still can be fun, though.

>>388784247
>Necro is also played.

What necro player has ever made it far in SBO

>>388784231
>I agree that execution is tied to strategy. That doesn't mean that some thing can't be made easier for new players as long as they don't affect the higher levels

that's exactly what it means. fuck off back to eventscrubs.

A good fighting game requires three things:
1. Mix ups that CAN NOT be guessed. Doing anything without a real read should be punished.
2. No input complexity.
3. No frame data complexity.

>>388783962
Probably because of the differences.
Well that happens with all new SF games, though. Since the new one is different from the new one, they hate it.
It doesn't help that they tend to suck and have a lot of problems in their first years until they make changes to them.

>>388784197
You have lots of defensive options in Xrd though, and throws are really powerful. Some of the hard oki come from dedicated setplay characters like Raven and Zato that you have to study their options to effectively coubter. In BB there are just as many bullshit setplay; not to mention the number of Option Selects that game has. Carl and Arakune are especially bullshit and whoever made them that way in CF should get the noose.

>>388776459
Memes aren't a substitute for valid arguments. By failing to provide a valid argument, you lose by default and by spouting memes in place of an argument, you look like a fool. I miss the days when people on /v/ were somewhat capable of having an actual discussion.

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>mvc2
>Ball top

>>388784389
You just described Divekick, when are we getting a sequel by the way? That's good shit.

>>388784389
sirlin pls go

>>388784350
>look at how hardcore I am

>>388784321
>SBO is the only tounry 3s is played
>SBO even being alive

COOP CUP is the new SBO moron

also nice goalpost movement. characters no being top tier=/= no characters require good execution.

>>388784408
Arakune by design is top tier just like how Akuma will always be good

>>388783696
Shit like this always makes me laugh, it's beyond retarded

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJd7RAh09SM

>>388784531
What Necro has made it to top 3 in coop cup?

>>388784160
Any why does no other type of game do this? It's because in order for fighting games to make inputs like this feel almost playable, characters need to be stuck on literally one dimensional stages. This "depth" is pointless because positioning as an element is completely discarded in exchange for it.

>>388784389
A read is always just a guess. Good fighting games force you to play so you aren't put in situations where you have to guess and you want to put the opponent in such a situation., especially when you will be punished hard for guessing wrong.

>>388784408
My issue with Xrd is less about setplay and more about how neutral plays out now.

Normals really aren't as good as they used to be unless you're playing someone like Sin or Elphelt.

I feel like I spend most of my time on a lot of characters just spamming specials trying to fish for stray hits. Nothing wrong with that, but I find it less satisfying.

>>388782923
Dude that's just a triple circle.

Pentagrams are really the only input that's just like "fuck that I'm not even bothering to try that shit."

>>388778212
>>388777789
You are thinking of Rest, not Sing. Sing only puts the opponent to sleep but the move takes so fucking long that you the opponent will wake up by the time the move is done unless they managed to get caught in it near the end of the move.

Rest was the instakill move and it doesn't even do that anymore. Now it just has very high knockback and puts a flower on the opponent's head for some extra damage over time. It can still be pretty nasty in certain combos though.

Tekken, Melee, and Virtua Fighter, granted for different reasons. OP sux

>>388784505
Mix ups can be guessed in his game though.

>>388784906
Garou Mark of the Wolves, too

>>388784743
It's done because fighting game characters already have moves tied to single button presses, or button+direction presses. Take just a regular Ryu hadouken. You get a different fireball speed depending on which punch you hit. If it were just forward+punch then you'd have to change solar plexus strike and overhead.

>>388784863
Shit my bad. I used to love jumping into a crowd of three and send them all flying.

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>>388784803
Holy shit you weren't kidding. There's also some dbz game with pentagram inputs, what the fuck man

>>388785098
But a game doesn't need to have dozens of different actions if it just has a positioning element.

>>388785201
Ivy has one too I think.

Yeah they're a legit thing and basically the only input that will make me say "nope" to a character.

>>388785219
Fighting games have plenty of positioning elements.

>>388785201
Hitting that isn't even that hard honestly, it might suck on a pad or something but its nothing on an arcade stick

>>388784705
idk probably someone, considering it's a team tournament. fuck alex "won" coop cup this year and necro is better than alex.

>>388784676
I'm not gonna lie, watching Raoh combos in HnK made me want to play that game.

>>388785201
You could just do a 360 for a pentagram.

>>388785364
The best part about playing low tier characters is it catches people completely off guard. They put way too much stake in tiers alone. If I had a quarter everytime I kicked someone's ass with Dan I'd be rich.

>>388783696
Games with lots of TOD are actually quite shallow because the meta never has to evolve.

>>388785343
>a small box with a low ceiling
no

>>388785517
Dan actually got buffed into a character in 2012 and Ultra, his kicks pressure was legit I had a friend who had a good pocket dan

>>388774164
Death Cargo, because good luck finding a legit copy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdbANIBuUOk

>>388785630
I think you need to be a little humble and realize you don't know shit about fighting games.

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>>388784314
>The game with the easiest skill ceiling out of the examples is, with out a doubt, Super Turbo. You could probably master most of what it has to offer in a month.

you have got to be fucking kidding me

>>388784787
Normals for a lot of characters are decent and they all have that one normal thats absolutely bullshit. Venom 6H/6P, Johnny 5K, Sol 2D and j.H, Slayer 6P, Ky f.S come to mind. My only complaint is how neutral and setplay are strongly affected by YRC eating inputs or cancelling commitment
>>388784537
Not really, but his design is inherently flawed. He's either shit or too good, no in betweens.

>>388784437
go lower your anus onto your MAS joystick grandpa

>>388774164
Bloody Roar 3

>>388785646
Used to use a max level x-ism Dan in Alpha 3. Some scary shit right there.

>>388784537
but akuma isn't always good. look at MVC series.

arakune was low tier in CT wasn't he? And I don't think he has been top tier Since CS or something.

>>388785754
You need to realize that there is no such thing as "positioning" if you never have a choice of wear to stand.

>>388775267
fpbp

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>>388786060
>there is no such thing as "positioning" if you never have a choice of wear to stand

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>>388774164
>super turbo, alpha 2
>highest skill ceiling
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

OH GOD MY FUCKING SIDES

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

This THIS is how you spot someone who doesn't play fighting games.

Unironically tekken 7. You need a minimum of 10 years of arcade play to even hope to scratch a pro

>>388785968
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9M2T-WE2ZY
>tfw no bloody roar 5.

>>388786158
>I don't have a real response so I'm just gonna resort to memes

>>388786197
No

>>388786021
I'm talking about actual SF games not crossover games where you apemash

Akuma was broken in ST since that was the point, top in Alpha 1, upper mid alpha 2, top alpha 3, upper mid 3rd strike, the secret best in vanilla SF4 and Super, top in arcade through ultra

>>388786280
Yes. 2D games are incapable of being as complex and as deep as 3D games by their inherent nature.

>>388786378
SUPERIOR LIMB BASED COMBAT

>>388786021
Arakune CT is his most bullshit iteration. He instantly curses you on drive hit. He's in the top 3, the other being Nu and Rachel. One of the main reasons CT was a bad game and gave anime a bad look for the FGC.

CS-CP Arakune was fluctuating levels of bad and terrible. CF Arakune is too good

>>388775267
He said fighting game.

>>388786197
>Poongko picked up the game and shat all over all the tekken "pros" in just a few weeks

lol no tekken is baby trash garbage

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>>388785771

It is totally true. The moves have easy execution, combos are brief, it is easy to stun people, and a lot of the strats tend to be brain dead. Need examples?

>Watch someone play O. Sagat.
>Ken's annoying throw loops.
>Claw

Seriously, I love Super Turbo, but I can beat people at it with little to no effort. Put me in a room of competent Guilty Gear players, and it is a completely different story.

>>388786549
And a black autistic child played SF for 1 week and made it to 2nd place at the biggest tournament of the year

>>388786549
>korean picks up his natural game and shits on people

>>388786378
I know this is bait but someone, somewhere actually believes this.

>>388786627
Punk started in SFIV a while ago.

>>388776262
if freedom of movement is the ultimate decider of skill required, then GunZ and Warframe are the hardest games ever made

>>388786197
Anyone who's been exposed to more technical, more dynamic fighting games will quickly pass on tekken. Other top fighters, namely Street Fighter, KoF and MK have advanced impressively in their latest installments; but the relic that is tekken just can't seem to evolve, furthermore many combos can be done simply by hitting 1-button, and the nearly "instant-kill" rage art moves are just laughably broken. Instead of a supplying a proper fighting engine, matches in T7 seem to rely heavily on "who can get their rage move off first". So many elements of the gameplay don't even require any sort of skill. In my book, slow motion over and over again also gets old very quickly. And in the end, it's more of a novelty or gimmick rather than an actual, thought-out fighting game mechanic. But hey, the casual crowd will be pleased!

If you want something a little more "button-masher-friendly," tekken might be your cup of tea.... Key word, might.

>>388775267
Melee fag here. Guilty Gear is the real answer.

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>>388786545

>>388776262
> Adding a fucking sidestep makes it totally different.

>>388786551
And you'll get destroyed by competent ST players as well. The only easy character to play is O.sagat. Vegas dives actually take skill to use effectively. and good players can do reversals and aren't going t let you get them in may throw loops.

>>388786258
Street Fighter 2 has walking, jumping, and attacking. Attacking can move your character, and move your opponent's character or stop them from moving. Other games add more to the mix, but SF2's toolset alone provides a massive amount of depth to explore.

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>>388786253
>Try to play BR3 online
>Potato PC cant run PS2 emulator
FUUUUUUUUUUUUCK

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>>388786869

>>388786915
Uh, no SF2 has an extremely low level of depth compared to most other fighting games.

I just cant wrap my head around Tekken because I cant get 2D mindset off my play habits. It feels so weird blocking high by default and reacting to the lows instead of the other way around, "reversals" from rising animation to punish unsafe lows and sidestepping; its too different and playing catchup is pretty frustrating

>>388787139
>/v/ talking about fighitng games

>>388784537
Arakune is flawed. He can only be really good or really bad. Carl is more of a character that can't be bad

Virtua fighter

>>388787259
No its not, you aren't fooling anyone you false flagging tekken baby

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>>388786898

Even so, out of all the games listed, it is still the easiest to learn. Just because you don't want to concede and keep saying that Super Turbo is "so hard" doesn't make it true. When we had local fighting game tourneys, Super Turbo was a game people gravitated to, simply because it was easier to start and more people felt they had a chance to win. Guilty Gear is super intimidating when you start.

>>388787323
>Literally a 2 button game with minimal mechanics and depth
No

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>>388786898
>Vegas dives actually take skill to use effectively.

>>388787038

Half of this argument is literally "its different therefore its not a fighting game" and the other half is just incorrect.

Melee has hitstun and counter hit properties, blocking and shields are conceptually the same and shield size combined with shields pokes are similar do dealing with high medium and low blocking mixups.

>>388775267
First post best post as usual
All other fighters are, spam projectile move to win the game.

>>388787441
When you're talking about depth it doesn't matter how intimidating the game is at first, because for higher level player that shit doesn't matter any more.
There's a difference between depth and complexity. Devs have been trying to maintain depth in their games while trying to make inputs and mechanics less complex for newer players. It's pretty hard, it seems.

>>388787559
>its different therefore its not a fighting game
That's exactly how it works, you fucking retard.

If its different to a fucking fighting game then its not a fucking fighting you fucking retarded manchild.

>>388787441
Sure ST has a higher skill floor than GG but it also has a higher skill ceiling.

>>388787558
They do. It takes knowledge and execution to make it a true 50/50. it's bullshit but it isn't free on good players.

>>388787259
I hate that they have the same input scheme and perspective as 2D fighters but have an extra dimension shoehorned in. A d-pad perfectly covers 2D movement. It requires extra complications to cover extra 3D maneuvers. And 3D fighters take the same approach to their attack buttons, cramming in tons of highly specific shit into transition states and long sequences.

1st or 3rd person with analog movement and aim is what 3D fighters should be in my opinion.

Why aren't fighting games dead yet?

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>>388774164

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>>388787746
>They do. It takes knowledge and execution

Should I buy a fighting stick?
Only ever used controllers all my life.

>>388787686
I agree but street fighter and melee are not that different. They have much more in common than not in common.

>>388787804
white people can't play them so its like a utopia

>>388787872
That their list was put together by an imbecile who had never even touched like half the games on it.

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>>388787559
It's really not a fighter anon. You could classify it as an platform fighter, or something along those lines. I just wouldn't classify it as a traditional fighter.

>fighting games
>Not talking about WWE franchise or Fight Night.

Y'all go fuck yourselves

>>388788015
No

>>388788013
If you've literally only used controllers all your life, start with a pad, and if you reach a point where you think you're being held back solely because you are unable to input as precisely as you need to, try out a stick.

>>388788013
Just buy a Gamecube controller

>>388787872
>furry roar

>>388787746
>Mika stands in front of you
Wow that was some real fucking knowledge and execution right there.

>>388787872
Very accurate

>>388787559
Half of this argument is literally "its different therefore its not a fighting game" and the other half is just incorrect.

Overwatch has hitstun and counter hit properties, blocking and shields are conceptually the same and shield size combined with shields pokes are similar do dealing with high medium and low blocking mixups.

>>388788013
I got one because I though they were cool and I found it somewhat uncomfortable playing with a pad.
You don't need them if you feel good using them.

>>388788059
I agree with that though. Smash is definitely not a traditional fighting game and I would call it a platform fighter but to say that it is not in any way a fighting game is just factually wrong.

>>388788124
Nice argument.

>>388786187
are you the "ALPHA 3 IS THE GREATEST MUH CROUCH CANCEL INFINITES AREN'T VISM INFINITES" sperg?

>>388788013
If you stand up and play they're better. Sitting down with a stick is a handicap, at least in my case it's true.

Shut the fuck up animesfag
The true real anime fighters,are street fighter and king of fighters who are true kings of fliperama.
If anyone say other than these kings,it's retarded or animefaggot.

>>388788148
I find it funny he put Furry Tekken as the pinnacle of the genre and normal Tekken as the worst.

Like you'd think someone like that would just like 3d fighters but both of the others on the list are apparently shit to them.

>>388787973
Vega isn't cheap because he's braindead, he's cheap because he can get you into a 50/50 look off of any knockdown and it's hard as fuck to reversal. And he also has great range, fast movement and good throws.

>>388788194
>mika

what? you know you have control over vega's dive right? and the strength changes depending on distance in the corner? You need to be very precise to make his dive a true 50/50.

>>388788440
Sorry didn't read your whole thread.

I just saw someone saying 50/50s take skill and execution and had mika flashbacks.

>>388786551
come on fightcade and try to beat legit ST players with "little to no effort" then

guilty gear has more system mechanics, that's pretty much it, that doesn't make it m0re h4rdk0re

easy execution LMAO, try doing some of the super combos and the DJ 7 hit touch of death on turbo 3, please post a video of you doing it

>>388787872
/Thread

>>388788571
Legit ST players don't play fightcade, he'd still get rocked by decent online warriors though.

>>388787872
So what's that mean for KI? I'm little confused on the difference between technical and strategic depth. Is is execution compared to mind-games?

>>388787973
He's right, that's why people like Damdai can always beat scrub Claws who think wall dive = instant win but got fucking destroyed by Mao who actually knows how to make them real 50/50s and also use Claws god tier normals.

>>388786187
>1242967269.gif

look, it's the sfa3 cuck that constantly shitposts against ST, alpha 2, tekken, and 'goobers' while defending his broken piss anime juggle game

https://boards.fireden.net/v/search/filename/1242967269.gif/

>>388788689
It's b8 anon. At best it's "these are games I like and games I don't like"

>>388788754
You could have just asked for someone to post it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52e3LNOCEwg

>>388788780
>broken piss anime juggle game
Guilty gear?

>>388788359
Fuck off Aris

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>>388774164

>>388788754
Damdai is autistic and keeps going for kara sweep srk to reversal vega when he doesn't have to.

>>388788780
>tekken
>no juggling

>>388788789
This is bait

Third Strike footsies

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtwYt6DPpIg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6k4DqQTJDg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfOYN5jhrcU

Super Turbo "footsies"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJi037lyNZM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tzqnk9e8yGk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YBSZ7_MqBs

>>388788672
I know for a fact that people like afrolegends played on ggpo and even recently dicked around on fightcade on alts

I think ggpo was better as far as player talent goes though

but yeah this idiot thinks because he can beat non ST players at it that it's an easy game when it's actually one of the hardest fighting games of all time, gets insane at an insanely high speed, I like guilty gear but your typical goober thinks that more system mechanics = more depth when goober has a huge buffer and dial combos

>>388789225
xd

>>388789096
You are replying to bait

>>388789320
nah I don't even like tekken but this guy's full time job is shitting on any fighting game that isn't alpha 3, he's the one that spammed the kermit pics on fgg for years, he literally has terminal autism and I saw people even challenge him to games on fightcade and he ducked

>>388774164
Bloody Roar, Battle arena toshiba, early KOF games.

Currently: Blazblue/Guilty Gear and UNIB because you have to constantly think ahead.

Third strike or games like MVC are not hard. Just pick top tier people and win.

>>388789225
typical 09er dumb fuck thinks footsies is jerking back and forth to get a crouching light kick to unga into super instead of spacing, punishing, and trapping your opponent

>>388786848
My nigga. I picked up guilty gear after trying out competitive melee and never looked back. Guilty gear is infinitely more fun at a competitive level than melee

if you play bishamon, lei lei, lilith, or bb hood, then vampire savior is very very demanding

it's not at all a demanding game if you play felicia, rikuo, or demitri or something though, mouth breather tier game

so it depends

>>388790981
Most games have characters with a higher execution potential and others that are more straightforward in that regard.
Nothing wrong with that.

>>388790981
John Talbain all day err day.

>>388791159
it's literally probably the worst in vampire savior though

you have these incredibly demanding characters like bishamon, lei lei, and bb hood with option selects and 1-2 frame bnbs and others that are upper mid to high tier that just mash chains and spam unreactable instant overheads that are pretty much completely safe (felicia, sasquatch)

it's so retarded

>>388791312
It's an old game, I dunno :^)

>>388791282
talbain, rikuo, felicia, sasquatch, and to a lesser extent demitri (nobody plays him though) are legit oogabooga low iq

just mash chains 4ever

characters like bishamon, bb hood, lei lei have to work so fucking hard in that game against the ungas it's incredible

>>388791462
> Fast ass character uses chip damage to make up for being a glass cannon.

Color me surprised.

>>388791631
which character are you referring to? none of the characters I mentioned rely on that strategy

I don't play much of other fighters but I am a fairly high level 3rd Strike player and I'd place my bets on that. Yeah the tier list is pretty bad but at the same time parry allows "balance" in a way and it adds an extra depth of mind games you can't do in other fighters. You eliminate the fireball game which forces footsies, if you are too predictable you can be punished. You really have to think about what you're doing and be careful about committing ANYTHING. Not only because of parry, but the fact a lot of shit can be reversal punished. You really have to know your distancing, you really have to know how to do mixups on wakeup, you really just gotta know how to play the meta of a fighting game in order to play 3s. There's no room for shit like in newer SFs where EVERYTHING IS SAFE and in 4 there was FADC which was literally an undo button for a little meter waste not to mention you got meter for getting hit.

>>388791840
It's been a while but it's the way I remember. Of course most people turtled with the big guys so that probably has a lot to do with it.

What version of Darkstalkers was it that let you pick characters from each game? That one was the shit.

>>388791882
>I don't play much of other fighters but I am a fairly high level 3rd Strike player

post fightcade hours

>>388792018
the crummy garbage ps1 port?

>>388791462
you are completely clueless

>>388792028
I don't actually know how to do that lol. I fight top players on there all the time. I don't think I'm hella great but I've held my own against people like Arczer. Exodus3rd, Metric, Tenren and KOfiend are way too fucking good though I mean holy christ.

>>388792118
Nah googling pulls up the psp port but I've never owned one so there has to be an earlier one. Might be Dreamcast.

>>388792124
nah I played bishamon for years and even went to tournaments like the evo side tourney, kept getting blown up by unga sasquatch shit even when my links and spacing were flawless, couldn't take it and quit the game

>>388792591
Post your fightcade

>>388791462
>>388791462
wasn't Lilith and Morrigan easy af to use too? Off hand I remember there was more characters like Q bee and Jedah that was hard af to use too.

I used to main BB hood myself so I can't remember. I had the original Darkstalkers 3 game before it was stolen. Not the greatest hits one.

>>388793486
I know Morrigan has some hard demon combos.

>>388793463
I haven't played more than a couple hours on fightcade a year ago, I played mostly on GGPO

>>388793486
morrigan and lilith are very hard, lilith probably moreso

>>388786946
Wait, can you play online with emulators?
please tell me more.

>>388794304
Fuck off you poser you dont know shit

>>388795667
assblasted felicia babby detected! keep mashing that dash+LK that you use as an instant overhead into another braindead dial combo, over and over again. every single one of you babbies plays the same. sasquatch, same shit.

>>388780265
you're saying 'infer' when you mean to say 'imply'

>>388795923
Come back when you have actually played the game

>>388787686

You said 'fucking' 4 times
Is your vocabulary really that bland?

>>388797053
I played the game for probably at least an hour hour a day 2 years straight

>>388797843
No you didn't

>>388793651
I honestly can't remember because it's been years. I don't even use emulators.

>>388794304
I thought Lilith was piss easy along with Morrigan? That's what Gamepro used to say (that they were Ryu/Ken clones.)

>>388797910
keep repeating NUH UH, doesn't make it any less true

>>388798183
>I thought Lilith was piss easy along with Morrigan? That's what Gamepro used to say (that they were Ryu/Ken clones.)
could not be more wrong- you play lilith like a shoto and you will DIE

>>388798183
You are talking to some who doesn't play the game

>>388798458
Post your Fightcade ID

>>388798681
I already told you assburger, I played on ggpo and gave it up around then. Last time I used fightcade has probably been over a year and I don't even remember the name because it was for like 2 sets.

>>388798539
who >>388794304?

>>388798458
This was over 20 years ago mate. I just remember it was in a magazine like Gamepro or some shit. Me and my buddies used to play the hell out of the game. One used Q bee, I used BB, and the other used the wolf. We used to mess around and give infinite supers when it got too boring. After that we played MVC3 and Third strike but it got boring because my friends used the same damn characters in all of the matches. Storm, Sent and Third strike was Akuma/Chun/Ken. That's it.

I still play P4U occasionally and I'm trying to get back into Blazblue and GG but I haven't played BB since CT and GG since Accent.

>>388795093
Most people play Extreme online with Dolphin, theres a discord group that records matches.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCl6vzJ8s9CJITUMGKznku7A

>>388788059
obviously not a traditional fighter but still a fighter

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>>388774164
Probably MvC2 desu, though I'd say GGXXAC+R would be a close contender.

>>388798871
This clown >>388798770

>>388798950
At least post the damn video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZZUMjoxfZA

>>388799053
you call me a clown and make up shit? how do lilith and morrigan play like shotos? lilith's dp is garbage and the strategy as lilith is to alternate between turtling and RTSD and hit confirm into the demon super- maybe capcom intended this as a shoto? but it certainly didn't work out that way, no good overhead either.

as far as morrigan I'm not too familiar and never had to worry about the matchup since the character is so woefully garbage in VSAV, even worse than lilith

>>388798946
If you have to use the words "none traditional" then its not a fighting game.

>>388799431
Post your Fightcade ID

The Capcom Jojos fighter has some of the most insane execution requirements in the genre.

>>388799593
nah I already dealt with rotanibor's nerd losers years ago, I don't need your validation dude, besides I have not played in basically years so I would miss all my bish dash links and then you would hit me with your low iq character's mashy chains and say SEE? YOU SUCK YOU DON'T EVEN PLAY THIS GAME! POSER

the game is ruined by atrocious low iq characters stomping while more intelligent characters like lilith lei lei and so on have a paucity of tools or given abysmal setbacks that give them iirc literal 8-2s, it was fun but I'm not going to play again

>>388800006
>I played this game for years
>Post your fightcade id
>REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE YOU CANT MAKE ME I HAVE NOTHING TO PROVE REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE BEATING ME SHITLESS WONT PROVE IM TALIKNG OUT MY ASS REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Classic /v/, every time.

>>388800006
The best character in the game is also the hardest character in the game, you literally dont know shit.

Faggots like you is exactly why /v/ is such a shithole.

>>388800414
I have my pride at stake, why would I let an aspie challenge me to a game I have not played in years when my character relies on 1-2 frame links for almost everything?

Before fightcade there was this thing called ggpo, did you know that babby?

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>>388800546
yeah and how many people play zabel in the west

that's right, none

>>388800570
Fightcade is ggpo you fucking poser baby

>>388800647
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1iwAQbU_N_ceHqAEQ1Jnm9XhMG87vAlE68u9nGHfZhqQ/pubhtml?gid=0&single=true

Every time you post you show you dont know what the fuck you are talking about.

>>388788268
1v1 me fgt and well see whose the real bitch, fuccboi

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>>388786869

>>388791462
But Demitri is turtle and spam bats until you get 2 bars THEN go crazy trying to land bite super

>>388801643
He doesn't even play the game m8

>>388801305
most of those are in japan and the other are literal who cucks with no skill other than rotanibor

>>388801643
bats? no good demitri player uses bats except very situationally, it also takes two bars

bat super is unga, just tick into it, teleport dash into it, do it off wakeup so it's unreactable, very lame

>>388801817
>bat super

sorry I meant demon super

not bat super

I'm sure the faggot will nitpick at this minor mistake to 'prove' I never played the game

>>388801817
Bats=Fireballs. Basically build a shit ton of meter with ground and air fireballs. Honestly the bite super is my favorite part of playing Demitri aside from the fact that DP is super hard to punish fully so you have to hit him while he's falling down to at least dissuade him from doing DPs.

I also hate Jon Talbain and his crouch MK into beast cannon

>>388801528
and the guy who created gifs pronounces it "jif"
sometimes creators get it wrong

>>388802193
I thought you were referring to demon million, the shitty super where the bats come out, the one that's like minus 200 on block

>>388779856
Kof13 is literally hop n jab with loops and 5 frame buffers.

MvC2 requires lightning fast execution and reactions. Sim and Magneto alone make the game deeper than any other fighter.

>>388787559
I'd say that the issue is that the experience of playing Smash is far enough removed that it definitely resembles "proper" fighting games but just doesn't really make sense to group it with them (I'd say that use of analog inputs alone warrants this).

If playing Street Fighter makes me better equipped to play Guilty Gear or KoF or even Tekken than someone who has never played SF, then it makes sense to group them. If none of them would adequately prepare me for Smash and vice versa, and if FG players often play other FGs even of different "styles" (e.g. people often play anime fighters along with traditional ones like SF, KoF, SamSho, and Vampire, or 3D ones) while Smash players often play various iterations of Smash (Melee, 4, PM) but there is quite apparently not nearly as much intermingling between the FG crowd and the Smash crowd despite each one doing so within oneself, then that speaks volumes.

>>388802583
Not the same anon but I disagree. My noob friend only uses the Trinity and so does most people. You can't even use most of the roster because of how unbalance it is. Nobody from MVC2 is like Naoto from Blazblue that makes your hands get arthritis because of pin point executions and 1 frames.

Unironically Melee, but if you're asking for traditional fighter, Super turbo.

>>388774164
How much would it cost to make an arcade cab, similar to this for example?

>>388803312
i remember seeing the shells for these on ebay a while back and back then they were like £800

google arace candy cabs as im guessing thats the kind youre looking for

>>388803041
>Blazblue
>1 frames

Trinity stoll includes Magneto and Sent while great for beginners begins to suckered at intermediate play unless you learn how to properly unfly

>>388803041
Try unfly combos with Sent or trijumping with Mag without getting any magnetic blast.

>>388787559
Melee doesn't have counter hits. Also shielding is very different in melee, way more committal than in traditional fighting games

>>388787559
>Melee has hitstun
No it doesn't

> and counter hit properties
No it doesn't

>blocking and shields are conceptually the same
No it isnt

>>388774164
>tfw I bought a piece of shit namco exceleena 2 instead of a blast city or astro city
it was so much cheaper but not even worth it

Virtua Fighter

>>388808773
lolno

>>388774164
Capcom vs SNK
You have to be really tight on your links or your combos don't work

Dark Souls. The variety and the playability

>>388783315
If talking about single player games, it's true that music games have among the highest skill ceiling, along with STGs.

>>388809387
And if you're playing a multiplayer game, it's to get away from that bullshit.

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>>388789684

The hardest fighting game is my favorite one! All the other ones are trash!

>>388774164
The difficulty depends entirely on who you're playing against. If you're only playing against the AI you're wasting your time and your an faget >:P
As for the skill ceiling, probably virtua fighter.

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>There are people who think Tekken is better than this

Gleam of force 2

>>388774164

>two stools like someone else is going to play

>>388810269
Would be better without the juggling.

Whatever happened to Momoko?

>>388786786
Go to bed Aden

>>388775267
I know you're trolling, but what's crazy is that people legitimately believe this.

>>388810269
Is this a joke?