How can the RPG genre be fixed?

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Get rid of Final Fantasy and bring back Chrono/Suikoden.

>>388760494
By sliding a J in front of it.

Force developers to work on a shoestring budget until they learn how to make a decent game.

>>388760494
how can you fix something that isn't broken? Oh wait, you are talking about Final Fanta-shit. No cleaning up that mess, it's been downhill since Sakaguchi left.

>>388763073

>it's been downhill since Sakaguchi left.
To be fair, it was downhill since FFII.

>>388763073
Name a good RPG from the last 10 years

>>388763263
Skyrim

>>388763263
Shadowrun games are pretty good.

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>>388760494
>How can the RPG genre be fixed?

Have patience.

>>388763339
Thats an adventure game with RPG elements, unless you mod it.

we need to invent a time machine and rescue more Neanderthaals, one is clearly not enough to bugtest and balance a game.

>>388763263
last 10 years? I ain't even gotta look beyond 2017, Persona 5 and Dragonquest XI are both fantastic and they are entry-level shit.
Final Fantasy has been, and always will be, a garbage franchise. Even during SNES era EVERY other Square RPG shat all over FF4-6. Just try to even compare shit like 7th Saga, Dark Half, Chrono Trigger, and Treasure of the Rudras to Final Faggotry's 4,5, and 6 microdick.

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>>388763472

>>388762807
good joke

>>388760494
Moebius' work is so weird to me because his style is pretty much what I want to achieve (aka simple but detailed) but when I was younger I read some of his work that had some gross stuff in it, and now every time I see his art my mind appreciates his work but at the same time remembers the feeling I had when I read the gross stuff.

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>>388763339
At least you didn't write Witcher 3

>>388763472
I'm curious, do you actually know of mods that give Skyrim more rpg elements or did you just assume?

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>>388763073
>>388763259
Sakaguchi is really just a George Lucas/Matt Groening figure as far as being the "creator" of Final Fantasy. Just look at Mistwalker's 15 years of failures and you can tell the man doesn't have a single idea left in him.

The real brains behind Final Fantasy's success was alwasy Hiroyuki Ito. Notable examples of his work include the Active Time Battle (ATB) system, Ability Points (AP) system, Job Change system, Esper Magicite system, Relic system, Materia system, Charge Time Battle (CTB) system, Guardian Force system, Junction system, Triple Triad card game, Active Time Event (ATE) system, Mognet, Tetra Master card game, Active Dimension Battle (ADB) system, License Board system and Gambit system.

By making them RPGs again, instead of action games with RPG elements that's marketed as RPG and idiots agree with the marketers even though it's a different genre.

invest more time and money in gameplay and story/setting/characters, less on graphics.

Use stylized graphics, not grimdark realistic ones where everyone looks the same, but also not cliche anime graphics.

Less fanservice. Stop trying to make characters that teenagers think is cool. stop appealing to teenagers in general.

30 hours minimum average playthrough, not including end game content.

have end game content.

simple.

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>>388764198
Enderal, as a total conversion not only supplies a new map, characters, and story content but a new skill tree, experience system and a skillbook system

the combat is still shit on its own but its a good TC

>>388765034
A lot of those are really shittily implemented and some of them are just flat out shit, so I wouldn't exactly start singing his praises.

>>388765034

The worst Mistwalker game is better than the best game Squarenix has released since he left. His games not being popular doesn't mean it's good. Just like everything else, usually, the most popular stuff is mediocre at best, and that's what FF is. FF, Elder Scrolls, Witcher, these are the pop music of video games.

also, you don't know who came up with what ideas in the game development.

Also, gambit system was garbage.

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>>388765480
>The worst Mistwalker game is better than the best game Squarenix has released since he left.
>implying

>>388765034

You are right that one guy didn't really make Final Fantasy. But you are wrong to attribute most of its succes to Ito. Someone like Kitase, 'everyone is a trans gender vampire' Amano and Nomura are just as much of a part of making the series popular, if not more. This is in large part because graphical design and story always takes precedent over gameplay in the series.

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>>388760494
>2017
>Not a single game wich tries to replicate the tabletop experience

In the age of procedural meme, is weird that any dev tries to release a RPG without story

>>388765734
SaGa might as well not be considered a Square Enix work because it's not trite garbage.

>>388765734

uh...he didn't leave in 1992. He was still at square when this game was released.

pls read

>>388765480

>The worst Mistwalker game is better than the best game Squarenix has released since he left.
The entire Dragon Quest series proves that wrong. Now if you had just said Square, maybe you have something there.

>>388765964
2005 is not 1992

>>388765974

Yeah, my bad. DQ is an exception because the creator of DQ still has total control over the game.

Once he dies or is forced out by the lackeys trying to make a name for themselves, like what they did to Saka-guchimane, DQ will go down the shitter.

>>388766137

>Initially made available in January 1992 for the Super Famicom, the game was later ported to the WonderSwan Color handheld system in December 2002, with both releases being exclusive to Japanese players. In April 2005, an enhanced remake of the title for the PlayStation 2 called Romancing SaGa: Minstrel Song

>>388766290
Minstrel Song is almost a completely different game from the original on every level. You'd have to be retarded to not treat them as separate games.

There needs to be an RPG that breaks the mold in terms of mechanics. Part of the problem is that RPGs are stagnating. There's not a whole lot of innovation going on in that department. Most games change up maybe one or two things, but for the most part keep it the same.

By the way, turning an RPG into an FPS or hack 'n slash is not breaking the mold, it's just fundamentally changing the genre to something different in order to say you're doing something new and innovative. So games like Crisis Core don't really count.

>>388766769

just graphics basically. it's still a remake based on an older game made during the pre-enix era. at best, that's a maybe. My point is still valid.

>>388766183

True. I fear the day when Horii retires and we suddenly have 10 different teams making 30 DQ games a year.

>>388766946
>just graphics basically.
Well it's nice to know you haven't played either game while trying to talk about them.

>>388760494
Making games about characeter development instead of a lackluster VNs that should just have been VNs so they might have been enjoyed.

>>388766868

JRPGs have broken the mold a ton. Making action combat, removing random battles, changing or completely removing stats/levels, dialogue chains like WRPGs do, etc. The problem is that after three gens of all this heavy experimentation, the fans are tired of it. They actually want RPGs to return to what they were on the SNES/PS1. A focus on story and visual design over crazy gameplay changes. Final Fantasy fans especially.

>>388766868

>Part of the problem is that RPGs are stagnating.

THat's not true. The market just doesn't like them right now. You think shooters should've stagnated a decade ago if this was legit. Or 3rd person action games. or platformers. Yet only 2 genres are claimed to stagnate: RPGS and RTSs. Not being popular doesn't mean stagnation. look at pokemon, it's a turn based RPG where the newest one is almost exactly like the original except better graphics. Yet it sells like, a billion copies a day. so it's not about stagnation, it's about marketing.

Games haven't innovated since the move to 3d. Nothing is new under the sun. this is a classic art verse commerce issue. No company wants to risk making an RPG. Especially now that game """""""""journalists"""""""" keep saying stuff like "(genre) is stagnate! we need 8 more games like Skyrim!!!"

>>388767254

> Making action combat

that's not breaking the mold. THat's changing a game to a different genre. action combat isn't an rpg.

>removing random battles

random battles were a product of lack of space on old gaming consoles, but they still have a place if done right.

>changing or completely removing stats/levels

every rpg changes states or levels, and removing them completely, again, makes it an action game.

>dialogue chains like WRPGs

these are memes

>>388767515

ARPG is still an RPG. The first JRPGs had action combat, not turn based.

>>388767298

I didn't mention anything about popularity or sales though. I honestly think that RPGs, like shooters, and many other games, have stagnated, and I say this as someone who continues to purchase RPGs and like some of the current ones.

>>388767254

Well yes, they did break the mold, a long time ago. But these days, RPGs can't go much farther. They had the potential to reach new heights at the time because games in that era were removing limitations that previously existed. Technology took a leap during that time, so naturally RPGs could evolve.

There probably needs to be a new technological revolution, but at the moment all we can really think of is shit like VR. Though I can't really think of any RPG that would benefit much from VR.

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No.

>>388760494
pandering pc and non-sjw players

Recommend my good open world rpg/jrpg. Not Gothic, TES, Witcher. Played all "classics"

>>388768913
How about Risen?

>>388768913
Metal Max Returns

>>388768913
Roll20

>>388768913
Legend of Grimrock 2.

>>388768128

RPGs could do plenty of new things. But most don't because they're either too low budget or too focused on trying to pander to what they think the audience wants.

A company like Vanillaware has proven that improvements in technology can improve 2D graphics beyond what the SNES/PS1 did. If a good series like Chrono or Suikoden had kept focusing on 2D graphics, they could have spent the majority of their time and money on story and visual design, which is what most RPG fans want. Not 3D graphics and flashy gameplay.

Other series like Dragon Quest did adopt 3D, but actually used the advancements to improve NPC interaction and exploration. While a series like Final Fantasy went 3D and it actually led to linear hallways and point to point triggers.

tl;dr There's plenty of new things developers can do with the genre. But only a few of them are bothering to try. This doesn't mean the genre has hit a wall, just that the majority of developers have given up.

>>388765914
What the fuck do you think Radiant Quests are? That's exactly what Bethesda is working towards. Also look at the shit like that was Sword Coast Legends who tried to do that even more analogously.

It doesn't work, it just doesn't work.

>half the fags in this thread talking about J"""""RPG""""s

This is a fucking RPG discussion, the vast vast majority of JRPGs aren't RPGs at all in any sense of the word.

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>>388770509
You need to break some eggs to make an omeltte. There is potential in that shit

>>388770325

Well yes, aesthetically, they can go much further. They can make the games look more beautiful, certainly. There are plenty of examples, like Octopath Traveler, which is coming some day. When I say stagnation though, I mean mechanically. I just don't see a whole lot of change in terms of mechanics.

My hope for Octopath Traveler is that it manages to make the experience feel fresh in some way. So far I think it looks beautiful, and am excited because it's going back to the SNES era battle systems as well as looks. But I want them to really change it up some way that makes it feel new.

>>388770736

Well fuck, who would have guessed that JRPGs would be mentioning in a fucking RPG thread? THIS CAN'T BE HAPPENING, I'M IN CHARGE HERE

>>388765224
That was probably one of the better combat scenes i've seen.
Until NPC's in bethesda games start fearing arrows/bullets the enemy AI will always let their games down.

>>388771049
Like I fucking said in that post, JRPGs aren't real RPGs and they have no place in this discussion except a select few.

>Dragon Quest 11 will be released in 2018 for west
JUST

>>388771180

Doesn't matter, this is how RPG threads always are. Of course there's going to be discussions about JRPGs.

>>388764198
Requiem. 10/10 mod can't play without it now. http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/19281/?

>>388771459
Then how about we do something to change that? Just because it's the way it's always been doesn't mean it's the way it should be. If you weeb faggots want you can make your own thread and discuss your games there.

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>>388771641
>>388770736
>"""""" """""" typing
>weeb
You're part of problem.

>>388771641

Because not enough people want to change it. I want to change the government but me and couple of buddies won't make a dent in it. You're fighting what is essentially a losing battle. You're speaking to a guy who singlehandedly shitposted Neptunia threads for months, MONTHS, because most of them had nothing to do with the games and were just used as a vat for weeb shitposting. Nothing changed, I got banned, mods backed them up.

I'm telling you this for your own good, just let it go. It's a lot better for your well-being and state of mind.

>>388771180
>>388771641

>WAH JRPGs don't count as RPGS! Make your own thread!
Or you could go make a WRPG thread and contain your autism there. But of course, the only WRPGs anyone will talk about is Skyrim and how bad Mass Effect is.

>>388764192
>look at the pic
>think to myself it looks like star wars
>notice the lightsaber and c3po
>realise it is star wars
was op star wars art too?

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>>388760494
Don't know about WRPGs but JRPGs already were saved.

>>388771180
Define "real RPG"

>>388760494

RPG deisgned by Moebius with many flopping penises when?

>>388772852
Moebius is dead for 5 years

>>388772768

Obviously RPG just means RPGs he likes.

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>>388772768
a little outdated but will always be a classic

>>388763414
Lmao

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>>388772630

>play this game because people obsess over how open and exploratino focused it is
>Dragon Quest VIII had a better open world back on the PS2
>Xenoblades own creators admit the game is linear, focusing mostly on story
Is this a case of the fanbase exaggerating? Like all those Souls fans who keep claiming Dark Souls is an open world game?

>>388773042
How do I rocketjump?

>>388773214
It's not one?
It does have non-linear progression for the most part.

>>388773214
No Souls fan would claim Souls is truly open world. It's an interconnected map of hub worlds/levels. Which is honestly much better.

>>388760494
More Toriyama.

>>388772502
Nah that's just Moebius. He did a lot of crazy sci-fi stuff like that.

>>388770924
what a stupid fucking analogy

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I want an RPG based in this

Futuristic feudalism, cyber knights, medieval mechs.

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>>388773841

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>>388773939

Remove levelling system use dynamic difficulty.
Balance gear make it useful or useless depending the type of monster.

>>388773841

Basically what FFXII tried to do. And failed, because they changed it into a generic Star Wars clone.

>>388773841
I feel like that's what Destiny tried to do, but it ended up bland and forgettable. By no fault of the concept itself, Bungie just sucks.

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Needs more creativity.

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>>388774028

>>388760494

better combat

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>>388760494
It already was.

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>>388774167

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>>388774291

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>>388774394

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>>388774514

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>>388774609
Alright that's all I've got from this guy

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Needs more diesel.

>>388773335
point at own ass
pull trigger

>>388760494
By losing the obsession with numbers.

>>388771973
Policing language is an impossible task, you're better off just embracing it rather than beating your head against the wall. Just look at how misused the words like 'meme' and 'cuck' are now, there is no way you're going to get people to change their usage at this point it's too far gone.

The best we can hope for is people get tired of empty words that have lost all meaning and move on to more descriptive ones. That's more or less what happened with "epic" even though it never regained it's original meaning or usage.

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>>388773841
>dude futuristic medieval lmao