How can we make shmups great again?

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>>388760337
Stop playing bullet hell.

>>388760337
Vertical shmups need to die, nobody use tate mode

bullet hell bullshit is retarded

games like raptor and jets'n'guns are far more fun

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>>388760763
I used to hate them Varg-kun but then i played pic related and my view on bullethells was turned upside down

Put more cute robot girls like in the previous Dodonpachis.

>>388761118
>Western shit
No thanks.. They can't into shummps only tyrian was good

>>388760763
Bullet hells are easier though since you're given so much more leniency with dodging. Typical shmups tend to be harder since the bullets move so much faster. Bullet hells look really scary, but once you learn how to read the bullet patterns, they're much more manageable and fun. What I would suggest is that the bullet hell devs/community try to advertise the games more and give tips to newcomers. I feel shmups have about the same appeal as something like Monster Hunter and the community for that series as of relatively recently started offering a lot of ways of getting new players ways to interact with the community through various means as well as several websites and apps offering all the in-depth information you could ever want

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>>388760337
what are some shmups for android with controller support?
I literally cant find any

>>388761335
I enjoy Ikaruga quite a lot. Do you think I'll like the game?

>>388760337
Hopefully Sega does something with these Technosoft catalog they picked up earlier this year. Maybe a new Thunder Force, but i'm not holding my breath.

>>388762361
Sure,don't expect it to be as "puzzleish" as Ikaruga though.

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>>388760337
honestly I hate to say it but i feel that shmups are a bit lacking as a genre. shmups do one a couple of things incredibly well; like creating tension through gameplay, making very intense boss battles and providing incredibly engaging gameplay in a short burst. that being said, shmups are very weak in most of areas of game design. Sadly, the difficulty required to make these games exhilarating is a good deal above what a "gamer" today finds acceptable. all of this puts shmups in a really tough spot.

I feel like the best thing to do is to slowly re-integrate shmups back into a more "mainstream" genre. I don't mean by making it easier or anything like that, but to provide modern players bite sized pieces of shmup gameplay to slowly re-acclimate the playerbase with shmup gameplay. A shmup games' greatest strength relative to other genres is the amount of punch and satisfaction you can get in such a short amount of time. adding short shmup sequences and shmup boss battles to other more accepted genres is a great way for players to experience that rush, hopefully leaving them craving for more. after a couple of years, mainstream player will want a game just like all those cool bossfights, and from there shmup IPs can flourish.

I also feel that the brevity of shmup gameplay lends itself to mobile gaming quite well, but i dont feel that the controls are tight enough. maybe trying to tap into that market and solving the control issue could do well for shmups, i am not sure.

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Bank less on bullet hell memery and try more on "upgrade your ship" memery instead

>>388761118
>mfw Jets'n'guns 2 with more MaSu soundtrack is actually coming
Best timeline

>>388760337
They were never good in the first place.

>>388761030
Retard

>>388761335
Eschatos is so hecking goiod
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCewj5nsSSU

>>388763390
>I also feel that the brevity of shmup gameplay lends itself to mobile gaming

A lot of companies are already porting shmups to mobile,but then WHY

>>388761118
>>388763473
Western shmups were always doodoo,not surprising that they always put more enphasis on upgrading your ship than just building up your skill.

>>388760337
Isn't what Touhou is doing right now?

>>388763791
>pattern memorization is a skill

>>388764314
Most videogames require pattern memorization and it is in fact a skill.

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>>388760337
More explosions.

>>388767012
And that's the kind of bullethell that i don't like,too much of the screen area is covered by bullets,i can barely see the enemies.

>>388760337
Shmups that also emphasizes the "shoot down targets" aspect, not just the boolet-dodging ones. i.e. Shooting a boss with the correct type of weapon makes the boss receive increased damage, but would also spew out more enemy bullets in return.

>>388760337
Actually buy them. Dariusburst AC is the best shmup in years and no one bought it because it was priced as a new release which it actually was for once.

>>388763663
>FM synth soundtrack

That game is underrated.

>>388763473
Hopefully they can fix the difficulty balance this time. Jets 'n' Guns was stupidly easy on normal and bullshit frustrating on hard.

>>388762239
Why would you even try to play them on android in the first place?

>>388767372
That's because it's on the hardest difficulty.

Get Konami to make more Gradius and Parodius games.

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>>388763663
>mfw Mamorukun and Ginga force PC port never ever

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>>388768224
>Get Konami to make games

>>388768224
Do you really think Konami cares about games anymore?

Radiant Silvergun is the best shmup ever made.

>>388760337
Get rid of waifus and bullet hell garbage.

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>>388768905
>get rid of waifus

Never

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>>388768905
>Get rid of waifus
This. Everything i've heard about this game says it's a steaming pile of garbage.

>>388767929
>>388768412
Yousuke Yasui has so much good stuff, I was just listening to the Mamorikun ost. Never got a chance to play the game though.
Japan in general still has a good amount of great FM synth and synth in general coming out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52uZnWb9UpI
Main OST of this game is by Yuzo Koshiro (Etrian Odyssey, Streets of Rage, etc) and the FM pack was done by some other old school composers

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make them metroidvania

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Maybe they should, you know, make some fucking shooting games instead of doing nothing.

>>388761783
Jamestown was good. Even Blue Revolver was ok

>>388769237
Those have been around since before these WAIFUS REEEEEEEEEEEEE autists crawled out of their mothers' wombs.
Actually I'm surprised they're still at it after all these years. Guess the shumps farm wasn't a good enough containment.

>>388769501
>This is canon
But...why

>>388760337
anybody play gangs of space on steam? It's pretty fun.

>>388769501
Isn't Otomedius Excellent supposed to be somewhat good or at least quite a lot better than the first?

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Why haven't you gotten a second monitor yet?

>>388763390
Although the shmup segments were barebones and simple as all fuck, is Nier:Automata somewhat like what you're asking for? To have bullet hell gameplay integrated alongside more "traditional" gameplay, to ease mainstream audiences into the idea?

Actually Furi did an excellent job of melding bullet hell with an otherwise purely action game, and the bullet hell bits were actually engaging and gave the experience that bullet hell games actually excell at.

https://youtu.be/3tVpSMPpBFA

Final Boss is really good.

>>388767012
I hate that shit, I want bullet hells to go in the opposite direction. I don't want to gawk at how much dakka the designer was able to cram into the gameplay window, I want fun and engaging gameplay where I can actually tell what's going on.

fuck hori shmups

>>388769946
I have, but horizontal shmups are aids.

working on it anon

>>388770315
Anon, gradius V is the best shmup ever and is horizontal.

>>388769930
Probably. Maybe. I don't really know. I bought it out of love for the Gradius series, but haven't gotten around to playing it yet. I do want to get around to trying Otomedius G as weel though.

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>zero G sections

Fucking why?

>>388760337
Honestly? Give the player more options to deal with projectiles besides just weaving through insanely tight patterns and using bombs. Also, every game should have autobomb.
Here's a couple good examples:
>Monolith
The player has a dash that speeds them up for a brief moment. There's an upgrade that also gives the dash i-frames. The player having multiple HP even without autobomb is nice, but I can understand why people dislike that.
>DoDonPachi Black Label
The player's laser can block other lasers.
>Ikaruga
The entire Blue/Red gimmick.

Aside from that, the games need more appeal in general besides anime girls. Fuck EVERYTHING about Otomedius. Parodius, Twinbee, Fump Blaster, and other games like that all have characters you can play that aren't just a faceless metal ship or some cute anime girl, which just kinda makes them more fun right off the bat because you can pick a character by whoever you think looks cooler rather than "red ship (type 1)/green ship (type 2)".

>>388769501
>>388769930
Just play Parodius

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At least Nintendo released a couple of Hudson Soft's old Soldier games on the eshop for Wii U

>>388770818
Parodius is great, but I really wanted this one to be good too.

>>388769930
Honestly the game is passable.

recc me some good shmups

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>>388773453
Blazing Lazers is pretty great.

how can i emulate ps2 shmups like strikers 1945

>>388773758
By googling it.

>>388773453
Eschatos
Gunhed
Gate of Thunder
Lords of Thunder
R-Type Delta
Einhander
Super Aleste
Musha Aleste
Air Zonk
Thunderforce 4 and 5
Axelay

>>388768008
cuz i like to use my phone in bed

>>388774338
How are you going to use your phone in bed while using a controller at the same time?

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>>388770818
Posting best player

>>388760337
what game is this?

>>388769946
Because I have zero use for it when not playing Dariusburst.

>>388760337
Innovative mechanics and better level design

captcha: PENSILVA LADYCROFT

>>388775906
I literally could not live without at least one portrait and one landscape monitor

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>>388775775
The greatest computer shmup ever made

>>388776115
I don't understand the wanking this game gets. There is nothing notable about it aside from the power-up system.

By removing touhou fags

>>388776397
I's an enjoyable and fun game all around.

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Any other games such as pic related? (Small projects, obscure freeware shmups, etc)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luY4N44Wv1w&t=0s

Ignoring the Tumblr level design of the main character, this might be good.

>>388763473
>upgrade your ship memery
Oh great, it's another 'ruin the entire genre by taking out any aspect of skill and turn it into the equivalent of a mobile game' episode

>>388769641
Jamestown is fucking garbage. The entire game is so goddamn boring from start to finish. Even with it's pretty-looking graphics and nice, easy-to-see bullets, the actual gameplay and level design is so stagnant that there's no reason to play it. They fucked up the scoring system by making it the OPPOSITE of risk vs reward. They try to make it more 'deep' by adding lots of tiny little missions to make up for it, which would be cool, but this is pretty much the essence of what western shmups do wrong. No obsessive attention to detail in the actual shooting game, and lots of bullshit just thrown on top to make it last longer so that western critics will give it good reviews.

Jamestown is a bad game.

My computer can't run Blue Revolver very well, but what I played of it had potential.

>>388776397
It has great gameplay,good visuals and amazing music,a shmup doesn't need to be complex or revolutionary to be good.

>upgrade your ship memery
I liked frantic 2

>>388776641
Monolith?

>>388773453
Pink Sweets: Ibara Sorekara Xbox 360 arrange mode is the most underrated shmup of all time

>>388776784
>Story cutscenes
>Lifebar
>zapping out of existence meme
>checkpoints

There is no possible way this will be good. In fact, this looks even worse than the average western shmup.

Impossible One is my waifu!

>>388770068
Stage 4 and/or Black Onion never

https://eebrozgi.bandcamp.com/track/refreshening

>>388763473
>Bank less on bullet hell memery and try more on "upgrade your ship" memery instead

Sky force anniversary exists and i have bad news for you.

>>388763473
I think you meant "random spawns and timings for each enemy within a certain window" memery

>>388778103
Don't lose hope. Heroes never die.

>>388769930
Passable, as stated earlier. As a Gradius game, you're expected to loop the game multiple times in a row to get the highest scores, which means that honestly the most difficult part of the game is the start of a loop when you're not fully powered up (not to mention that the particular Stage 1 has a sunset background with orange bullets coming at you in part of it). Weapon imbalance is strong; Boomerang is far better than anything else. They also decided to make the ships be the waifus but they don't do anything in the course of play. There's a window of their face on the screen yet they just stare blankly at you forever. They could have done a lot of work on things like that to make it more engaging, but they didn't.

>>388777229
Totally agreed. I think the well is doubly soured on it, with original Pink Sweets being rather awful, and the waifu motif scares everyone else away, but that particular game is very good. Controlling life use to extend combo length is a rather unique concept.

>>388775906
2 monitors is amazing though

Just at a functionality standpoint.

>>388776641
That one Gradius like made by mexicans

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>>388779231
I know, I'm just fucking around. It's coming someday.

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Have you done your duty to Darius and genocided all the fish yet /v/?

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>>388760337
Just like with anime we should replace the current trend of waifu characters with traps instead.

Give a reason to play besides 1cc and score faggotry.

>>388780515
Fun

>>388776641
There's one in the gamedev threads that looks promising shmoopdev.tumblr.com

>>388780278
thats a cute spess fish

>>388768602
>>388768680
B-but Bomberman R though...

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https://youtu.be/LKSGyEJDZPA?t=28m58s

>>388760337
Make them slightly less seizure inducing

Put them on Switch

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>>388781549
>tfw cave is basically dead
At least we got Degica porting their games to pc at a snails pace

>>388782078
Good God no... That D pad is fucking horrible

>>388782078
http://www.nintendolife.com/reviews/switch-eshop/blazing_star_neogeo

>>388774906
by plugging the controller into my phone while i lay IN the bed

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>>388781549

>>388780278
I will defeat this whale!

>>388780596
The genre needs something new because nothing that comes out that just tries to be fun can stand up to the old masters.

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>>388781549
https://youtu.be/cujHIkGRT7U?t=1655

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edelweiss needs to make an ether vapor sequel

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>>388767929
>>388763663
I think you boys need some Mecha Ritz
https://youtu.be/xkfDym0EV04
https://youtu.be/LwMZLOpBy9Y

>>388776641
Mecha Ritz and Cho Ren Sha 68k

>>388783090
Isn't Astebreed that?

Name a shmup for a complete casual like me.

>>388783282
sort of but it's more of a spiritual successor

I just want a straight up sequel

>>388783601
Ibara Pink Sweets Xbox 360 Arrange
Alternatively Summer Carnival 92 Recca

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>>388776641
I liked Warning Forever.

>>388783601
Nuclear Throne

>>388783601
All these games are not ball bustingly hard
>>388774332
except maybe Eschatos if you are playing in hard mode and Musha is a bit on the difficult side too

>>388783601
The arcade version of Gradius 3 is baby mode compared to the other games.

>>388783601
Anything by Compile.

>>388783804
>telling a casual to play bad games
You don't have to be hardcore to enjoy a good fucking game. Nuclear Throne isn't a shmup anyway.

>>388783601
Screw that, I want to develop a better understanding of where these games are coming from. What are the quintessential shmups that you should play to witness the genre's roots and evolution?

>>388783601
Monolith is a good starter. It's also from an /agdg/ dev and has been getting fairly frequent updates.
http://store.steampowered.com/app/603960/Monolith/
There's also Crimzon Clover, which has a good Novice mode.
http://store.steampowered.com/app/285440/Crimzon_Clover_WORLD_IGNITION/

>>388784004
Ok now you are sounding like a fag that is more interested in being knowlegable instead of actually enjoying the games.

>>388784004
Space Invaders

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>>388783941
>Nuclear Throne isn't a shmup

>>388784273
What if I'm having trouble enjoying the games? I've played a couple Touhou games and those have a pretty clear structure and rules for the gameplay (beat 6 stages and their elaborate boss fights, use your regular shot in tandem with focused movement and bombs, there might be a game-specific mechanic for accumulating score/lives/bombs) but I know that Touhou is in turn inspired by older games, and yet I have literally no idea where to actually start exploring the rest of the genre and I have no fucking clue why anyone would enjoy stuff like >>388781549, which doesn't look like anything to me. I want to understand. I want to be part of that circle of dudes who 'get' shmups.

>>388783941
There is nothing bad about Nuclear Throne except it's developers.

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>>388784913
Just pick a game and play it, god damn.

>>388784913
Just search for a random list of obscure or well known shmups on google and you'll find something,if you really want to get into them start from the earliest ones,or just play whatever gets posted in this thread i guess.

>>388784694
(you)
>>388784940
Maybe it got better recently, but I played it when it first came out and was pretty disgusted. All that screen shaking, the boring weapons, having to stop shooting to reload all of the time, the music, the lack of interesting shit to dodge, the godawful fucking roguelite formula that's been a meme for western indie devs lately...

It's just a mess.

If you want to play a western indie roguelite shmup, I can back Monolith as a solid recommendation. But I don't think there is any reason to play Nuclear Throne.

>>388784004
cho aniki

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>>388784289
Believe it or not it happened

>>388785389
Cho Aniki is essential weirdcore,not really an essential shmup series.

>>388784913
Shmups are a gay cult I wouldn't think about it too hard.

>>388760337
dead game dead genre
move on

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>>388785334
>maybe it got better recently
No fucking shit it actually came out now instead of being early access, none of your complaints are valid anymore because all of it is great now.

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>>388760337
Has anybody tried CounterAttack? It's got some good aspects to it. 8 player online coop is actually pretty fun.

>>388785789
Got it for free from one of the devs threads but never touched it.
Convince me to play it

>>388785728
>No fucking shit it actually came out now instead of being early access, none of your complaints are valid anymore because all of it is great now.
Okay, how did they make it better?

>>388784004
>>388784913

Galaga
R Type
Darius Gaiden
Battle Garegga
Dodonpachi

>>388768160
I fucking love crimson clover but to be fair, it's a lot harder to see things that aren't bullets in that game than, say, the touhous or ikaruga

>>388783601
Jamestown.

>>388783804
>>388784254
Twin-stick shooter roguelites aren't shmups.

>>388785881
The good:
Great weapon customization
Starfox style level progression
Good difficulty
Dev is active/fixes shit

The bad:
Music is terrible. I mute it any play my own shit.
Complicated, I have trouble getting my friends into it. It's like Gradius meets Raptor call of shadows for upgrades.
Some of the levels are kinda boring

I think it's worth a try. Especially if you can find an online game.

>>388786218
>jamestown
let this fucking piece of trash game die already

>>388781549
I remember when Cave TLB's weren't almost entirely about how many lives and bombs you had left to spam your way through them.

>>388786261
It's a good introduction for casuals. Ideally he'd then go from that to actually good games.

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>>388785898
Thank you. Will look into.

>>388785334
>screen shaking
You can turn it off.
>boring weapons
Starting weapons are boring, but end games are fun.
>having to stop shooting to reload all of the time
Lies, you never have to stop and reload.
>the lack of interesting shit to dodge
Again, starts off boring but becomes hectic later on.
>the music
Thought it was okay, but one dislikes it they can always just mod in different music for the game.
>the godawful fucking roguelite formula
The rougelite elements of the game aren't even that bad, things are never really random that you get fucked by the game itself, most of the time its the players fault. Hell, some people even make the compliant that's it's not random enough compared to other games with roguelite elements.

Maybe you should give it another chance, at the very least you might some enjoyment in it if you play it a bit more. Also I don't consider it a shump, it's in the same genre with games like Smash TV, whatever the hell that genre is called.

>>388786218
Yeah they are.

Suck at bullethell more than I do RTS.

It forces me to look at my own character the entire time and the minute I look up I'm fucked.

>>388786372
No. It doesn't work that way. Casuals play a shitty game and like it, and then keep playing shitty games forever. There is no reason to not just jump into a good game.

Actually releasing some that aren't casual waifubait.

>>388786518
No they're not. That's why shmups are shmups and twin-stick shooters are twin-stick shooters. And it's also why they play totally differently, even before the rogue-lite aspects come in. We have genres for a reason.

>>388785891
going through all your points:
>can disable screen shaking
>tons of interesting and crazy weapons to get now
>reloading isn't actually a thing
>boss music is actually good, stage music is decent
>lots of unique and challenging enemies to fight, have to think quickly because they often aggressively attack you instead of waiting for you to come and kill them, 5-3 is a great example of this with the lil hunter boss
>none of the time gating bullshit from other roguelites and purely based on your own skill

>>388786738
>if it's not a doodoopoo clone it's not a shmup

Okay.

Counterattack

>>388783601
super aleste

>>388786237
I guess I should just try it out some time then, thanks anon.

>>388786526
You're not supposed to stare at your own character for bullet hells.

>>388786476
My complaint for the roguelite elements isn't that the game is random, but rather that it takes a very typical and boring approach to the roguelite elements.

Also I could have sworn there was an obnoxious active reload system, but maybe the shot speed was just slow or something.

As a diehard fan of roguelikes (nethack, baroque, ADOM), shmups (Recca, Futari, Cardinal Sins), and even walking shooters (kiki kaikai/pocky & rocky, twinkle tale, shock troopers), the game just has absolutely nothing to offer me.

>>388786993
I appreciate the breakdown, thank you. I'm glad to hear that they fixed the weapons and put in an option to disable the screen shaking. If there's a demo I'll give the game another shot so I can make sure I'm being fair to it before I mention it again, but I'm not sure the game could really change enough to become enjoyable since I played it.

>>388769569
This. Samus Returns is going to be my favorite shmup of the year.

>>388760337
They just aren't popular anymore, the only "one" to get any attention is Nier Automata and let's face it, it's not really a shmup at all. Also what the hell happened to Treasure?

>>388788670
>Treasure
ded

>>388788737
Really?!

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>>388760337
my friend is making a competitive pvp shmup for ps4 and xbox one with really awesome sprite art. i hope it sells well

>>388788872
I wouldn't call not making any new games since 2014 as being alive.

>>388789140
Damn that's a shame, last game I remember them putting out was Sin and Punishment Star Successor

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>>388783601
Touhou

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nn6ttmsRZm0

>>388760337
Get rid of weebshit

>>388783203
Somehing about mecha ritz soundtrack really hurts my ears

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>>388788959
>competitive pvp shmup

>>388763473
Pls no, euroshmups are not good

>>388770157
There is a higher resolution, anon.

>>388768224
I'd like a pachinko game.

>>388775906
Other than for vertical SHMUPS, it's great for web browsing especially when your monitor is rotated.

Plan on getting a rotatable monitor so I could play SHMUPS and browse in portrait mode.

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>>388761874
>I feel shmups have about the same appeal as something like Monster Hunter

lol wut

>>388760337

Stop churning out autistic bullet hells and loli fanservice, and make a fucking Gradius sequel instead.

>>388780494
That's not a trap.