Oh Taaaaxmaaaaan... Aren't you forgetting something important?

>>388734365
Was Mania better than 3&K?I feel like it missed the mark

>>388734607
No. 3&K has better music, level design, story. I feel some of the bosses were better in Mania but the last level and final bosses were complete shit. But it was made by amateurs, so it's expected.

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SEGA probably can't be assed thanks to all the music issues and feeling that Mania will feel the void.
Besides, you can just play 3 Complete if you want the closest thing to perfection.

>>388735515
no widescreen tho

>>388735368
>level design

No

>>N388735368
Yeah I felt that way too. I found Death Egg zone to be more enjoyable than Titanic Monarch

>>388734607
I personally prefer 3&k but Mania comes damn close. If the level selection was longer, mania would have probably beat it out

>>388735515
You gotta stop shilling that fangame shit.

>>388735368
The only things I agree on are music and the final zone.
The music to the final zone is absolute dogshit. You could literally plug it into any other game. It's not Sonic at all.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rd7IFNZYtZI

>>388734607
level design arguably better, level progression and mini-bosses arguably worse

>>388734365
What exactly does that picture suggest he forgot?

Sega will never touch it since MJ's estate will bleed them dry.

>>388736040
The 3&k ports

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>>388734607
Better? Not sure.
It's pretty close though. It's certainly in the same ballpark.
It's better than 2 or CD in my opinion.

>>388735368
>But it was made by amateurs
Yeah, they should have used professionals, like those that made Sonic 4, or Sonic 06.

Also, they were employed by Sega. So, that makes them professionals.

>>388735368
Mania's """"secret"""" boss is hot fucking garbage Jesus Christ
>you like playing super sonic? Well how about we give him the power of flight and have a turbo rush that wasn't present when you played him earlier and you get to fight the boss in this small ass arena
>you died to the boss because you were introduced to a completely different play style that you couldn't adjust to on time, too bad play the shitty titanic Monarch all over again
>oh btw there is little to no variation in the final boss's attacks so I hope you like bullet sponges
This is where Mania reached the amateurish design I'd expect when playing a fangame.

>>388734365
He's wanted to remake S3&K just like Sonic CD and the mobile versions of Sonic 1 and 2 for a while now. Unfortunately, a legal snafu regarding the music, IIRC, is stopping Sega from letting him do it.

>>388736276
He did do 3&K ports but Sega being the retards they are turned him down
>https://youtu.be/Ct1cErthI6s

>>388734607
Mania has more consistent levels (Hydrocity being the only low point in my eyes, and only because the original was so damn good) and in my opinion, better Special Stages and bosses. It also has the better multiplayer, and all the quality of life features that come with Taxman Sonic's, so it has a lot going for it.

With that being said it misses the mark in a fair few areas. The story is inconsistent as fuck, the lack of transitions for certain levels is jarring, Knuckles doesn't get enough exclusive routes/bosses compared to 3K and although I love the Egg Reverie music, in terms of stakes and atmosphere the finale of Mania feels pretty flaccid compared to the finale of 3K. There's also the fact that the Bonus Stages become effectively useless once you've got all the medals so there's no point going into Checkpoint portals on your additional run-throughs, which seems like a pretty wonky design choice to me.

So they're about neck-and-neck where I'm standing. I feel that Mania technically has the better gameplay (which is what counts, right?) but falls short on a lot of other aspects. If Mania was all-new zones and had consistent zone transitions, it would beat 3K by a mile.

>>388735829
>3 Complete
>fangame
It's just a mod that fixes a few issues with S3&K that fans would like to see fixed.

>>388735515
>Sonic 3 Complete
>No PC FM Synthesizer version of music
Yeah no. I'd rather not play steaming hot garbage from lazy hacks.

>>388735829
>sperging out over a free game

>>388736639
>No PC FM Synthesizer version of music
I'm pretty sure 3 Complete does have that

>>388736291
>>you like playing super sonic? Well how about we give him the power of flight and have a turbo rush that wasn't present when you played him earlier

Super Sonic's been able to fly since Sonic & Knuckles and has had that dash mechanic in a lot of games for both consoles and handhelds.

>>388736291
>you like playing super sonic? Well how about we give him the power of flight
Did you not play Doomsday Zone?

I thought they were just following the tradition of the secret unlockable boss being "epic" to look at and listen to but actually being complete fucking garbage to play. Doomsday was garbage and so were the unlockables in the Advances (not that many people saw them thanks to those ABSURD Special Stages and/or entry requirements)

>>388736291
>you died to the boss because you were introduced to a completely different play style that you couldn't adjust to on time, too bad play the shitty titanic Monarch all over again

But dying there just resets the fight, it doesn't make you replay the stage or even fight the previous boss again.

>>388736753
It has versions of the PC tracks in Genesis-style format, but doesn't have FM synthesizer.

>>388736639
It does have arranged version of those with the Sonic 3 instruments
Not sure why you would want those garbage songs though

>>388737889
I'm retarded when it comes to music related stuff - what's the difference?

>>388737889
Think it might be because the genesis couldn't handle that

>>388737309
Doomsday wasn't garbage to play though, it was pretty easy.

>>388737737
I think he means after a game over.

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Somebody better mod the drop dash into all the other Sonic games because I can't imagine a world without that anymore

>>388738134
Easy doesn't mean fun

>>388734607
I finished yesterday so I can't really be sure, but I feel it's up there.
The only gripes I have are Hydrocity act 1, which isn't a real problem since it's still good rather different expectations, the wonky story and titanic monarch being way less epic then death egg.

What does taxman mean

>>388738005
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbb5Ry-v87E
vs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ikwo3mEskWo

>>388734365
Just play Sonic 3 Complete ffs
A proper port of 3K will never happen unfortunately

>>388738005
They're not the original PC songs. They're arranged versions of the PC songs in Sonic 3's soundfont.

If you ask me they sound far superior to the originals anyways and those songs always sucked anyways

>>388738220
>actually preferring that trash over the original Sonic 3 version
*tips fedora*

>>388736285
Sonic 1 was made by "amateurs" and it's actually memorable and good.

>>388738220
The second one sounds like absolute shit, why on Earth would skipping out on that be a deal-breaker

>>388738220
That sounds like it's from New! Sonic The Hedgehog for the DS or something. God no.

>>388738378
Preferring
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHFN7EnXpFo
over
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qeSIZk2PvHU
>Injecting generic reddit meme
Wow you got me man. I might as well kms.

>>388738521
MJ's theme shits on that garbage which doesn't even fit the stage
Kill yourself contrarian faggot

>>388738423
Ignore that contrarian faggot

>>388734365

>top tier taxman ports of 1 and 2 locked to mobile
Fuck this gay earth

At least Sonic CD is his everywhere

>>388738219
Please respond

>>388738810
At least we have the Sonic 1 and 2 3DS versions

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>>388738220
>There's someone other than me who likes the Sonic 3 PC music

>>388734365
Forgetting? He publically pitched a proof of concept and has already done a lot of work on it. Blame Sega.

>>388738910
Haxman ruined Sonic

>>388738394
As opposed to Mania? No it isn't. Sonic 1 is a very basic game.

I got my friends to play S3&K and they didn't like it because for them the game felt unfair as it gives you the opportunity to go fast but in some instances flings you right in to a trap that you cannot possibly react to if you play for the first time
in addition one of them argued that the momentum physics are made for going fast and are not very good for slow platforming
how do I defend this "you need to know the levels to have fun" argument or what ever it is?

>>388736291
>you died to the boss because you were introduced to a completely different play style that you couldn't adjust to on time

(You) described every Super Sonic boss in existence.

>>388739440
You dont. Sonic 3K has the worst level design of the series for exactly that reason.
1, 2, CD, and Mania are all fun on the first playthrough and Sonic 3K is an acquired taste at best.

>>388739440
> "you need to know the levels to have fun"

Remind them that this is how ALL platform games are and that they suck balls.

>>388739634
>Sonic 3K has the worst level design of the series
Opinion discarded

>>388739634
what about some slower levels like the marble maze in 2

>>388739634
what the fuck

Barring one or two very specific and unintuitive obstacles, 3&K is a lot more beginner friendly than Sonic 1 and 2 in pretty much every way.

Sonic and Knuckles is the better half, and Sonic 3 is the worse half

>>388740081
There's no noticeable change in quality so this meme opinion is out

I have never seen a single S3K fag actually explain WHY it's the best game out of all of them. Only shit on the other ones.

It's an entirely meme opinion

>>388734365
I fucking hate Sega.
>Won't put the taxman ports of 1 and 2 on anything but mobile
>Won't let Taxman do a full port of 3&K even though he's pitched a proof of concept

>>388739440
>how do I defend this "you need to know the levels to have fun" argument or what ever it is?
It is true, for half of the population, although they can probably avoid a lot of the grief by using the roll better or learning the design language (not the design itself) of Sonic level design, as the levels NORMALLY try to choreograph when a "slow" trap-filled section is coming up.

In a 4:3 Sonic game running at full capped speed (not rolling), you have something like 14-15 frames to react to an oncoming horizontal obstacle. That's roughly a quarter of a second, or around the average human reaction time. Some people are below that average and some people are above it. Your friends just happen to be in the shit half of the population. They can either git gud reactions, learn to abuse the roll, learn the level design, or some combination of those. They've got three choices and if they choose to complain about all three then they were just casual faggots in the first place and nothing of value was lost.

Luckily since Mania runs in widescreen, faggots like these with sub-optimal reaction times have sort of calmed down with their bitching. For now, anyway

>>388740287
most levels, can be sonic tails knuckles, sonic and tails, getting all the emeralds does something other than change a cutscene (only sonic 2 sms also did this, bonus level crystal palace)

also floating island is better setting than mobius in general.

>>388736639
>No FM Synthesizer music
The Genesis literally can't do that you fucking fool.

S3 Complete is fully playable on a Genesis, it's a Genesis game for all intents and purposes. It's not a "fangame"

>>388739889
I hate 3&K therefore it's shit.

>>388739751
I think the problems is where the game is advertised "you can go fast here"
so they take it for granted that it shouldn't be unfair for doing so because there is nothing else to do
exploring is minor part of the game? and that really turns the game into a basic platformer that some people don't like because there is nothing to discover really?

>>388740287
Play 3&K

>>388740150

Marble Garden is shit, and Launch Base and Ice Cap are just okay

Only bad level for Sonic and Knuckles is Sandopolis

>>388740287
More shields, more levels, more characters, more bosses, more Emeralds, more bonuses

Basically 3Kfags are the equivalent of rosterfags, for them its all about size/quantity.

>>388740808
Yeah man I sure do love having LESS content in my game.

>>388740638
Good thing Sonic 3 complete isn't being played on a Genesis.
So what was your argument again?

>>388741020
Quality over quantity you moron

>>388736639
so you haven't played Sonic Mania then?

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>>388741252
Good thing 3K has both then, eh?

>>388741020
More levels but there low quality S3 levels for half the game.
More shields but Mania has ten times better implementation of the shields.
You can add pretty much any character to any Sonic game at this point. More characters is fairly irrelevant.
3K bosses never stuck out to me

Sonic 3K has more than the average Sonic game but I like all of what it has way less than the average Sonic game

>>388741091
m8 you're an idiot, 3&KC was designed to be put on a genesis cart

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>>388734365
Literally never happening, move on. Taxman and Stealth have already tried pitching it to SEGA and they turned it down.

It's not just them, M2, the guys behind the SEGA 3D Classics line on 3DS, made 3D versions of Sonic 1 & 2 and yet they weren't allowed to touch Sonic 3 either. There's clearly some major legal issue going on with the game's soundtrack or something that SEGA can't be assed to adress.

I'm pretty sure certain stuff in Sonic Mania like the inclusion of Blue Sphere and Hydrocity Zone being mostly the same as its original counterpart was mostly done as a way to compensate for the fact that an HD remake of Sonic 3 & K will never happen.

>>388741616
Good thing Sonic 3 Complete isn't on a Genesis cart.
What was your argument again?

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maybe it's my autism but I can't fucking stand how ugly the sprites are in Sonic 3, and the color palette makes it worse (Sonic, Tails, and Knuckles together look like an LED bulb)

>>388741820
somebody once asked me if I like the modern or old sonic
I said modern because I thought he ment 3
turns out there were these shitty 3d ones I was not aware of and got laughed at
by sonic fans

>>388741787
I am literally going to waste my time and money putting it on a Genesis cart just to spite you anon, screencap this post

>>388741787
You're playing dumb which is fine but I'll use you to explain, it was designed to not exceed the Genesis's capabilities while adding onto the original game. So the "higher quality" PC music wasn't added it was remixed to be more in line with the genesis sound card.

>>388741820
3K's sprite looks inspired by the american cover art

>>388741820
I always preferred 3&Ks sprites, more detail and better animations than what came before.

>>388741787
they are saying you can patch it to a legit mega drive cart and run it on console, romhacks don't always work if you do this.

what was your argument again

>>388738521
holy shit those FM tracks sound like shit. You have awful taste.

>>388734607
if it had completely new levels it probably would have. a big part of the enjoyment of a Sonic game is playing new and cool levels. Mania relied too much on nostalgiabait when it could have stood on it's own. blame SEGA, they are the ones who forced the dev team to rehash levels

a big thing that S3K had that Mania doesn't is progression. in 3K going deeper into the island, finding the emerald shrine, sky sanctuary, then finally death egg and doomsday really felt like a journey. Mania is just a mash and really slogs towards the end thanks to metallic madness followed by titanic monarch which are very similar theme wise

>>388741252
3&K is a big step up in both.

Like, it's really weird to see someone claiming otherwise. You know this has been the consensus, right? For decades?

>>388743034
It's a popular meme now to say that 3&K is mediocre

>>388741775
Apparently Sonic 2 3D was a giant pain in the ass to make. Sonic 3&K is even bigger and more complex. Even if M2 were allowed to make it I don't think it would have happened.

>>388742546
The good part is that now the Mania team has their feet wet making a new game and if Mania 2 has all original levels, it can very easily top 3K as the best Sonic game since even Mania is close but is just held back by its lack of originality.

>>388738141
Who the fuck is simultaneously capable of unlocking Super Sonic AND getting game overs in this fucking game?

How do these people breathe without forgetting midway?

>>388743086
no it isn't

>>388743843
It is, be in more Sonic threads or read this one

>>388743746
But Mania's weakest levels both in design and art are the new ones.

>>388743746
The sequel they nake would need to have some quality of life upgrades that they forgot to add in Mania

>>388743924
>not liking the new zones
Damn youre a faggot. Press Garden is fucking high-art, and Studiopolis and Mirage Saloon are cool as shit too (especially the Knuckles only act and the music that comes with it).

I can understand people's issue with Titanic Monarch at least, although it was fine for me. I enjoyed it and liked the nods to Chrome Gadget.

>>388743885
your ideas on what makes something a meme, much less a popular one, are fucked

it's just the same age-old shit of people going after sacred cows for attention

>>388743924
Pretty much this.
Press Garden and Mirage Saloon(minus the plane autoscroller) were good. The rest were trash.

>>388744150
Mirage act 1 as Sonic and Tails was shit, Sky Chase wasn't good in 2 and it wasn't good now.

I think mania surpasses s3 but not s3k. The new stages are great, the remixed act 2s of the retro stages throw in a lot of cool and recognizable mechanics while still feeling fresh, and the level design is a lot smoother for some of the portions. The only retro stage that wasn't really any better was hydrocity honestly and the bosses were really creative little gimmicks. True final boss is a bit lackluster with it being pummel the bosses and you basically cant lose but it's still a decent end to a very solid game.

>>388743924
This is objectively not the case for Studiopolis at least. Mirage Saloon would also be superb if act 2 was just longer.

titanic monarch is also definitely underrated. it especially shines on replays

Will he port the Advance games after that?

>>388744516
Of course not?

>>388744603
But they are great games.

>>388744656
>>388744603

>>388744671
But they are great games

>>388744352
Most 2d sonic games surpass sonic 3, considering Sonic 3 is half a game

>>388744352
S3 isn't even a full game so it's not a fair comparison

>>388739440
First off, tell them that they're liars for saying the level design flings you into traps, because that's absolute bullshit.
Second, this ain't Mario where he has a set slow speed where you barely have to adjust your movement when jumping on platforms. Tell them to stop holding right when making tight jumps, cause that's the only case I can think of where Sonic's movement can make platforming difficult. From a standstill Sonic's acceleration is pretty dang low, at least low enough that you can make precise jumps with ease. He controls more similarly to Mario when holding the run button.

You don't need to know the levels to have fun, you just need to know how to control Sonic, since his movement isn't binary like Mario.

>>388741820
>Sonic in 1,2 and Mania
Cool dude
>Sonic in 3
Mario+sonic gay hybrid

Mods of Mania have started.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5kYsHcZ9no

>>388745587
> because that's absolute bullshit.
No it isnt.
Every level has more than a handfull of speedtraps like slopes propelling you into spikes or right on top of a badnick's projectile if you go max speed. Or a bunch of crushers that you cant possibly avoid unless you know in advance how these particular platforms gonna move (i.e. on your 2nd+ playthrough)
So his friends were completely right. If it's your first time - you're gonna die alot to traps.

>>388746021
I thought this was impossible because the game had some kind of anti-piracy thingy blocking it?

>>388740762
>Ice Cap
One of the only tolerable ice levels in platforming. Opinion discarded.

>>388741820
>muh clown shoes
>muh cheeky grin
Fuck off with this shit.

one has drm and the other doesn't. that makes S3K better than Mania.

>>388744212
>people
They're summerfags, anon, let's be real.

>>388740762
What's wrong with Marble Garden?

>>388746089
Name 1 (one) instance of this.
http://www.soniccenter.org/maps/?url=maps
Go ahead, I'll wait

>>388741820
Sonic 3s sprites are more fluid than 1/2/CD animation wise, but 1/2/CD have the better overall construction. Mania is a happy marriage of the two, keeping the design of 1/2/CD with 3s animation fluidity.

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>>388738220
>>388738521
You probably also prefer this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQVK-UEY-yE

to this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYxlqTpZ-24

O m8 i am laffin at your shitty taste fag

>>388738521
This reminds me of Dragon Ball threads and the faulconerfags

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>>388738521
>that FM trash
Hahahahahahahahahha I can't take it anymore

The Sonic 3 part of 3&K is fucking garbage.