Why can nothing save the arena genre?

>>388702696
Arena shooters were never that popular. Quake 1 and 2 sold decently because they had a single player mode, Quake 3 is one of id Software's worst selling games.

>>388702696
New players want to be able to compete against players who have played for thousands of hours.

Can't add new features because it'll drive away purists
Can't be a complete rehash because the purists will stick to the original

all quake needed was persistent stat tracking and a ranking system hoisted on a user-friendly and stable platform with modern graphics. unfortunately the retarded devs at id software hitched their dicks to the latest MOBA trends and ruined any chances of success. rest in piss

also every new map is a square, what the fuck

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>>388702696
Just messing with mechanics will never revive their heyday. They were once popular not due to superior game mechanics, but due to the novelty of the idea of gladiatorial 3D combat with weapons. 99% of the people who ever played it were not good, they just thought it was an unique experience and set up a LAN with their scrub friends to try it out

Same reason SHMUPs won't ever be big again. Nobody's impressed by it anymore. Only the autists with a specific passion for the genre remain

>>388703065
>all quake needed was persistent stat tracking and a ranking system hoisted on a user-friendly and stable platform with modern graphics

QL had all that sans possibly the "modern graphics" part and it fizzled out. It didn't look bad either, and simpler graphics means it runs well on more machines

>>388703113
fpbp

Fifth post best post

>>388703189
>a user-friendly and stable platform
it was missing this part

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>>388702696
Because they need adequate AAA marketing and all the big publishers would rather put their money into microtransaction-filled console games.
>>388702907
>Arena shooters were never that popular.
Wrong.

>>388703265
Well, it did drop the browser shit eventually. I have a hard time believing the infrastructure around the game is what could revive it

>>388702696
Genre is dead, was proven even before Quake Chumps. Submit to PUBG and help the concurrent player number.

>>388702696
Because games like these are too difficult for normal gamers.

They need games like Overwatch where they can win with their "strategy" and "meta knowledge." Tanks and Healers in these hero based games are much easier to play, and hero abilities require hardly any skill to get kills with.

>>388702696
>take Quake
>add modern lobby/matchmaking/community
>allow custom modded games

Don't add classes. That was it. Fuck just Quake Live with modding and community features would be all you fucking needed to do.

I still have hope though. Doom was half way an old style shooter and I enjoyed the shit out of it.

But the class thing has me worried. Overwatch is a much slower game to compensate for the need to think about team synergy and variations in character. Quake was pure. Everyone on equal ground, you had to play better to be better. Not run up against someone stronger/weaker.

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>>388703412
>Because games like these are too difficult for normal gamers.
I guess pic related is destined to wallow in obscurity and barren servers. Oh wait.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGOIMPQo9uI

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>>388703113
This is 100% right, but /v/ will ignore it because the shitposting and dissatisfaction must go on

It's the same as paintball. Back in high school, when you heard there was a paintball place in town, you wanted to try it. Everyone kid wanted to try it. The idea of experiencing something like modern combat without having to die or get hurt is very appealing. But usually most people try it once or twice and never return to it, whereas a handful stick to paintball, obsess over it, and even make a lifestyle out of it

I wanted to hate Quake Champions but it's actually good

It's the base Quake gameplay but refined. The maps and movement are fine as well as the weapons. The character abilities are kinda op sometimes though, because they all have different healthpools adn Sorlag, for example, is dominating because she can spit the acid ball for SHTTON of damage, deny an area and combo into anything else she has on the hand. Still it's a cool game and having fun with it even if I didn't expected or wanted to.

I like the characterization of eveeryone on the game too. Hopefully UT Alpha will get close to it in a distant future because it's also a good game and maybe even btter if only was finished.

>>388703113
And custom content, which QC seems to forget

>>388703595
Thing is Paintball is awesome and it's good exercise

>>388703458
>But the class thing has me worried. Overwatch is a much slower game to compensate for the need to think about team synergy and variations in character. Quake was pure. Everyone on equal ground, you had to play better to be better. Not run up against someone stronger/weaker.

If you played QC you'd know your worries are unfounded, the heroes change things far less than picking a class in game like TF2 would. There's some balance to be done still, but the core gameplay is still the same unrelenting skill test it ever was

>>388703510
Quake takes a lot more skill then Dark Souls.

>>388703458
>But the class thing has me worried. Overwatch is a much slower game to compensate for the need to think about team synergy and variations in character
Do you not remember Team Fortress 1

>>388703764
Plus any plebabby can compensate by grinding a lot and looking for all the game-breaking items. Whereas Quake/UT doesn't have any of the pay-to-win bullshit you find in CoD and such.

>>388703126
kek

>>388703412
it has tons of depth, but it's fairly easy to get into. after 10 hours im frequently getting 1/2/3 medals even though i have no prior experience in the genre. im not great by any means but im good enough to have fun. a competitive game's difficulty is based on the talent of its playerbase, and currently QC's consists of mostly novices.

>>388703968
>play DOOM 4
>games fuck your shit up
>find all the secret powerups
>game becomes a complete cakewalk

UT4 is essentially the perfect iteration of UT and it's free

Go play that instead of shitposting about QC and the death of arena FPS. Convince your gay DOTA2 friends to try it, too

>>388702907
[citation needed]

>>388703510
nice bait

>>388702696
>no appeal to new players
>oldfags don't do anything to try and get said new players interested

>>388704185
QC > UT4

>>388704118
QC suffers from almost the same problem as Overwatch. New players can play a brain dead hero like Sorlag, grab the LG, and faceroll everyone.

>>388704118
>a competitive game's difficulty is based on the talent of its playerbase, and currently QC's consists of mostly novices.

I was actually surprised by how high the level of competition already is in QC. It's far, far above most new games. A pub in QC is often a real fucking challenge

This could be due to people coming off the beta with hundreds of hours of experience, or it could be due to the kind of people it attracts (i.e. people that played QL). Either way I'm pleased it didn't degenerate into Overwatch with strafejumping

>>388704246
>no appeal to new players
>have to understand 10 weapons which only have one function as opposed to 20+ heroes with many

>>388704335
quake requires skill though, overwatch doesn't except for a few heroes

>>388704335
Sorlag is far more honest than Anarki and Nyx, IMO. She could have a slight reduction to her stack or an extra 10 seconds on the spit cooldown but that's it

>Anarki
>incredible mobility and air control, dominate all important items, get good weapons incredibly fast on respawn
>smallest hitbox
>ability is a full heal that raises your max health permanently for the remainder of the match

A good Anarki is the most frustrating thing to face in QC

first of all, y'all need to stop thinking of "arena fps" as a genre instead of a subgenre of fps. there were only two noteworthy arena fps franchises: quake and unreal. yeah there was shit like painkiller, warsow, fucking half life deathmatch even, but they were all basically copying from the big two.

second of all, arena fps wasn't dead until about 2 or 3 years ago. quake live had a healthy playerbase since its beta began in 2010 all the way up to when id software went full retard and killed it with steam. don't compare the playerbase of 7 years ago with the numbers put up by league of legends and dota today. there are way more "gamers" out there now, and a game doesn't need 500,000 players to be considered alive.

i don't buy what this >>388703113 guy is saying, mostly because its a generic statement that could literally apply to any genre that has been around since the 90s. no shit people are getting bored of the same formula that has been around since 1996.

fuck i don't remember what my point was. quake champions isn't trying to save a genre that never existed, its just trying to revive the quake ip. but again, modern id software is retarded and they overcompensated trying to modernize their game

>>388704503
Yeah Anarki is even worse than Sorlag.
Sorlag can only be so good, and she's only annoying because of her armor and health count along with the ability to bunny hop.

>>388704398
>this is what arenababbies actually believe

>>388702696
nothing is trying to save it

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>>388704398
The "a few heroes" part is actually the most damning, as getting killed by zero-skill heroes (Junkrat, Winston) when playing ones that require some technical effort (Genji, Pharah) is an unbelievably agonizing experience.

>>388703113

Are you telling me that were doomed to an eternity of cod clones?

>>388702696
It demands skill, which demands dedication. The current generation lacks the dedication to learn a skill just to play a video game. Developers accomodate their audience accordingly and try to arrange things to balance everyone so they don't feel alienated.
Try to waddle into quake live before ever playing it and see what I mean. You'd get curbstomped savagely without hope for improvement, which would deter you from ever playing it again.

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Doomguy and Ranger memes are the only reason I got into it.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMIlA81Atco

I'm getting addicted to it

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>>388704713
It's backed up by objective fact, though.
>>388601870

>>388703113
>99% of the people who ever played it were not good, they just thought it was an unique experience and set up a LAN with their scrub friends to try it out
Try playing against bots on lowest difficulty because of no friends and internet.

>>388704947
if only quake live wasnt such a terrible shitshow of a game. a million custom settings and cfgs and ugly ass UI

QC is making a lot of bigass mistakes

>no bots
>whatever, Q1 and Q2 didn't have them
>can't create an empty server to at least learn the maps a bit and practice movement
>the only way you can "see" the game is during matches
>newfags have to basically take up the ass for hours until they git gud, unable to even practice key movement techniques without rockets flying all around and people trying to kill them

I know there's a "custom match" option, but you still need other people to start a game

>>388705062
t. masters player who can't into GM and blames "muh Qs"

>>388705107
That's entirely besides the point, but I agree.

I like it.

I hope it gets a decent playerbase, because even if I get stomped by rocket-jumping CPMA-playing wizards, I'm having fun trying to git gud.

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>>388705173

>>388702696
It's already been perfected

>>388705173
Honestly, the epitome of skill is staring at a wall longer than other people do.

>>388702696
Because kids don't know how to play them and my hands are probably getting arthritis.

>>388705259
Is this what we've devolved into, just screenshotting replies from other threads? This is baffling, son.

>>388705259
>no movement acceleration

This hurts the most. Fuck that game.

>>388704132
>>play DOOM 4
>>games fuck your shit up
Did people actually think the new Doom was difficult?

>>388705893
The game is basically a city traversal simulator with the amount of game time dedicated to walking slowly to an objective. I wonder what a hero with movement acceleration and weapon pickups would feel like in that game... the engine probably can't support it.

>>388704132

>games fuck your shit up

It was easier than most other similar shooters that came earlier. Shadow Warrior remake was harder and that game was also easy as fuck.

>>388703801
>implying /v/ plays video games

>>388705060
Galena is cute!

>>388703351
>>Arena shooters were never that popular.
>Wrong.

They had tens of thousands of players. They still have tens of thousands of players. That's not popular compared to modern games and that's what they're trying to compete with these days.

>>388706063
It's pretty cheap on Nightmare, but I wouldn't call it hard. More like Super Meat Boy Shootan Edition.

>>388706537
>Super Meat Boy Shootan Edition
I think you just convinced me to play this.

It's a genre of video games. It doesn't need saving.
Literally nothing is stopping you from playing quake right now.

>>388703113
Pretty much, I used to play a lot of UT in '99 but I was never great at it. I got better over time but I never reached a level where I could say "I'm really good at this". Like you said, most people were the same. You'd have a few hardcore players who'd dominate and a lot of average/below average players eating shit.

I can't stand the bullshit being spewed about Quake Champions. It's a damn fun game.

>They turned it into a MOBA
No it's not. All the abilities do is give a new escape abilities and/or a unique kill. It's still Quake and it's still based around Deathmatch
>It's P2W
Furthest from the truth, people who play for free play as Ranger who is easily the strongest character with his teleport.
>The only people who play it are Quake veterans who will destroy you
Maybe in Duel, in Team Deathmatch most people are average at best

My main concerns are how long it'll take ID to deliver Dedicated Servers and will they deliver map tools so the community can build maps. If they deliver both on a timely schedule this game will have a nice little community.

I mean it won't be Player Unknown's Hobo simulator but it'll have active players.

>>388707690
>Ranger who is easily the strongest character with his teleport.
No way. Anarki is probably top tier in the hands of a good player just because his passive movement (QW style air control) is SO FUCKING GOOD, his hitbox is miniscule, he's fast, and his active ability is a fucking full heal and speed boost that permanently increases his maximum health for the match.

Ranger is good though.

>>388705259
I can totally see that screenshot

I don't expect the game to have a pubg tier player base but do you think it'll keep a strong core of players ?

I really like the game and I'd hate to see it in the same state as battleborn.

>>388706862
Just buy Serious Sam

>>388708432
>but do you think it'll keep a strong core of players ?
This really depends on if the playerbase of Quake Live, and the other afps games that have moved over to QC actually stay with QC rather than migrating back to where they came from. So far the retention rate seems like it might be ok, but my main concern is the lack of communication about the netcode issues on id's part, as I think that's probably the main factor that will start pushing players back to other games.

>>388708432
Hard to say, a lot of people who claim to want a new arena shooter have never really played one, at least not competitvely. The hardcore fans are few and far between. It'll probably keep a player base but it certainly won't be big.

>>388708432
Quake has literally always had a playerbase since it came out, a new Quake can only increase it.

>>388704713
he's right though

>>388707690
>Ranger who is easily the strongest character with his teleport.

Then why did we barely see him as a pick during Quakecon? Most pros will pick Anarki, Nyx, Sorlag and even Visor before him. Not a single Ranger in any of the matches during the finals, either

>>388709354
this is just false

>>388705141
>I know there's a "custom match" option, but you still need other people to start a game
No, you don't. You can absolutely make an empty game, start it up, and just roam around the map trying out movement mechanics or finding spawns or whatever the fuck you want. There aren't bots but there's no reason to think there won't be bots in the final product, unless I missed where they've outright said they won't add them.

>>388709428
No it's not

Ranger is an underdog pick among pros. Anarki, Sorlag and Nyx dominated QC, with the occasional Visor

>>388709512
Ranger was picked much more than Visor in both duel and sacrifice mode

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>>388702696
Plenty of people playing QL. But oh wait, you are just here to bitch and moan, so it's irrelevant.

Does anyone else feel it's too easy to get Gauntlet kills in this? It used to be truly rare in QL, now if you're a fast champion you can get in melee range if you SJ and there's nothing the enemy can do about it

I have ~500 hours in QL and like 30-something gauntlet kills. I have 20 hours in QC and I already have the 100 gauntlet kills achievement. Something's not right here

Because they take effort and people would rather play low skill ceiling games like PUBG or OW

>>388703126
Is wanting something new but still in-line with the elements that made earlier games great?

It's might not be possible to innovate anymore, but people will still desire it.

>>388702696
Because every one that has come out has been half baked by amateurs. Reflex and UT4 STILL aren't finished. Quake Live got raped by bethesda/zenimax being retarded as fuck.

>>388711498
Gauntlet does 75 damage per tick. Only need 2 hits on most heroes. It's super easy because there are a lot of new players that will follow you around corners into a gauntlet kill.

>>388712015
I just pummeled with gauntlet cornered Scalebearer in 3 hits - it was actually satisfying af

>>388707330
so the same as every other game? why is his generic statement such a revelation to your stupid ass?

>>388710236
QC has much more players than QL right now

>>388711723
this

>>388702696
The original Quake was popular before the FPS genre as a whole branched out overtime, more modern games simply got more mainstream appeal

Oh and elitism doesn't help

I bought this because /v/ told me there's a lot of new players and it's easy to do well right now

Holy shit did I get memed, the level of play even with randos is really fucking high

Seems like everyone can do advanced movement except me, and the game has no tutorial on that, only on the abilities

>>388702959
Literally get good, i loathe how hard valve, riot, blizzard and other games bend over backwards to make casuals feel like they can go toe-to-toe with people who nolife a game

>>388713578
>Seems like everyone can do advanced movement except me, and the game has no tutorial on that

This really is a problem

If you came from QL, SJing is second nature to you, and you can already play all but two of the champions at full speed

If you never did it, it's a completely nonsensical input based on a bug, that makes no sense why it would speed you up

You see a lot of people just moving around with WASD, and they can't get to quad/mega on time, can't escape losing battles well, can't get to weapons fast, etc. Movement is the first big hurdle to putting up a fight

tfw can't stop jerking off to nyx

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>want to break away from Overshit
>It's either Paladins with 10/10 waifus but 0/10 game, or QC
Someone sell me on quake

>>388713679
'git gud' isn't going to make up for people being literally thousands of hours behind someone who's been playing since the 90s. These kind of games desperately need good matchmaking to keep people in separate categories

>>388713890
It's good and you don't have to worry about the meta much, raw FPS ability will prevail in most cases

>>388713890
Paladins is a fucking abomination. I played one game of Paladins the other day because I was curious as to why it was so popular. I couldn't hit a single thing with the hunter woman's assault rifle. The aiming and kickback was fucking terrible.

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>>388713890
Quake is the most satisfying game in the world because there is a level of depth to pretty much everything.

You can feel yourself getting better at even basic things like moving across the map as you practice

>>388713919
ranked mode seems to always separate idra tier pro/baby rage from casuals
Making hit boxes the size of barns and habitual rounds of "nerf-nerf-buff" however, will only make the game became less and less worth while

>>388713890
Paladins is more MOBA than a shooting game.
Overwatch is more a shooting game than a MOBA.
Quake is just a shooting game.

>>388714007
Slash is too goddamn fun. I don't care if Anarki is objectively better, Anarki doesn't make me feel like I could do a fucking Varial 360 McTwist over the other guy's head (even though he's the one with the actual board).

>>388713890
Try Destiny 2. It's unironically one of the fastest shooters of the last decade.

>>388703351
They were popular because that's all anyone had. If you wanted to play a game online with a lot of players on fucking dial-up your options were Quake and Unreal. When Counter-Strike hit it big with what was it, 1.3 I think? I'm not entirely sure. But anyways, when CS got big it got BIG, and it dwarfed Quake nearly overnight. Unreal lived a little while because Unreal had stupid fun game modes.

Most people forget that a lot of QuakeWorld was just Team Fortress.

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>>388713890
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKJmlrhSr5U
>best waifu
>she will hold you always by the hand

>>388714195
>she will hold you always by the hand
but they changed her animation so she isn't holding a hand anymore

>>388702907
>Unreal tournament
>Series to kill of Unreal
>Arena Shooter
How about, no?

>>388714145
>Destiny
>Fast
Pick one

>>388706063
>>388706174
>>388706537
True, but it was harder than Doom 3 at the very least.

>>388714145
Warframe even shits on Destiny in terms of speed

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>>388702696

I'll send an SOS to the world
I'll send an SOS to the world
I hope that someone gets my
Message in a bottle

>>388704335
Good. Maybe the won't quit so fast then

>>388703113
I suck at arena shooters and I still enjoy them.

Even if I wanted to be a competitive gaming fag (I can't anyways because my reactions are too slow) I wouldn't do it with Quake, I'd do it with a game that was actually making money right now.

>>388714661
PUBG or Clash of Clans?

The skill ceiling of arena FPS games are too low for them to hold competitive appeal.

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>>388714857
Dota 2

>>388714998
>skill ceiling of arena FPS games are too low
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdkDjsBiO58
you mean it's too high to be seen by avg player

>>388715316
Was that supposed to be impressive?
Why don't you arena FPS experts go make yourselves rich by playing those babby tier competitive games?

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>>388703126
Pretty much this, it's why whenever a "pure" arena shooter comes out it fails.

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>>388715406
Rapha is commenting his decisions behind every action he made in that match which can give you idea how many factors are in typical AFPS duel.

>it's too high to be even
comprehensible by avg player

some rewording just for you

>>388715746
I played Reflex until its players dropped below 50... Now its impossible to get duels through the matchmaking. Shit games getting all the players where did we go so wrong.

75% of the reason I play FPS games anymore is to see well-modeled realistic guns being used. Arena FPS can't give me that.

>>388715746
I wonder if it's any coincidence that Clutch looks like the Reflex robots. They could have just made him Tank Jr. but they decided to go for a new robot that looks quite a bit like them

>>388714380
not an arena shooter

>49 playing an hour ago
hahahaha

>>388714007
they need to add more champs with this kind of movement

>>388713890
QC is most fun you can have right now

>>388715316
>this exact same post with the exact same video
Must be the only argument that you fags seem to have, I guess. What a coincidence that it only started getting posted a week ago too.

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*blocks your path*

>>388718850
Well if you feeling confident bring your REASONABLE arguments

>>388719062
I wasn't the guy you were originally responding to moron.

much like RTS, what started out as something moderately fun for everyone became an unwelcoming autism-fest over time.

most people joining a Q3 match these days are just going to be instagibbed by railgun or rocket the moment they even pop a corner because only people who are absolutely godly at Quake play Quake. Without the ability to learn the game without getting absolutely steamrolled nobody wants to play.

on an unrelated note I miss back when Starcraft first released and games were slower paced because the strategy aspect of the RTS name still mattered. Now it's all just Korean micro clickshit.

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>>388719107
Sorry, I didn't catch your name...

>>388703510
Dark Souls is a great game but it is only hard if you don't know what you're doing.

When you do know what you're doing you are basically invincible, you can ninja flip with the best armor in the game and have a weapon that oneshots almost every enemy and kills almost every boss in about 8 hits, as well as having infinite homing magic missiles that one-shot every enemy. Game is busted to shit.

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>>388718858
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqnkAcxr2K4
FUCKER GOT NOTHING ON ME

>>388719167
There are plenty of noobs on QC right now

>>388714998
You realise that (you)s aren't actually worth anything right?

You need to get the normies to play.

CS:GO is still one of the most dominant FPS games out there because so many normies like the skins and play matchmaking in the silver and gold nova ranks.

At those ranks you can be garbage at the game and still get kills and have a good experience.

Now the normies are moving over to PUBG because you do not need to be good at the game to get kills and have exciting moments.

Arena shooters will need to have a very solid ranking system and shit like skins and appealing visuals to make a comeback (note how Overwatch is super popular despite being a garbage game just because of the visuals).

Diabotical is the real hope arena shooters have. Normies won't find the gritty visuals of Quake appealing.

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>>388719278
4chanx is known for not being reliable for this shit.
Quit acting retarded.

>>388719684
>Diabotical is the real hope arena shooters have.

Kek

If I had to assign the "draw" of each game, from 1 to 10, Reflex is a 3, UT4 is a 5, QC is a 7, Diabotical is like a 4 being generous. It will not revitalize SHIT, it's fated to be niche

>>388719830
Will have a rank based matchmaking system, very cute design with a lot of skins and customization for your character and high skill ceiling mechanics.

Solid point though. Your numbers based upon how much your dick wiggles really made me reconsider.

>>388720061
FACT: nobody but 2gd's 15 twitch viewers knows wtf diabotical even is

>>388719830

QL shit the bed with bad bots (worse than Q3) and retarded loadout/HMG features. In addition the engine is just a patched Q3 so it supports widescreen and borderless fullscreen natively, but could still be better. The goodwill and marketing is the real fuck up though.
If DB provides custom mapping and the ability to host your own listen servers without port forwarding (steamworks + NAT traversal) it's already better than QL, and already better than QC (as long as ID doesn't prioritise fixing the netcode).

Oh I guess having similar hitboxes on every character is also a good start. "ID" think for some reason accurate hitboxes are a good idea for an arena shooter despite the difference in speed to games that warrant accurate hitboxes.

File: 1502955737110.gif (469KB, 512x807px) Image search: [Google]

469KB, 512x807px

What if we made a pubg clone with movement and weapons like quake/UT?

>>388720705
It would look dumb
>operator lying in the grass tacticooly
>huge muscular space gladiator clears shows up right next to him, mysteriously moving faster and faster as he jumps

>>388721158
obviously you would replace all the operators with muscular space chads and the grass with the craterized xeno-desert of planet khnrhnrrr in that case, not just put a few quake dudes in the actual pubg game

>>388721334
I'm not sure camouflage and stealth gel well with the ideas of AFPS. The time to kill of PUBG would already turn the game into, well, not an AFPS

>>388721425
it's doubtful if you could replace stealth with speed and still have the game work, but I never intended my harebrained suggestion to save arena FPS (since PUBG doesn't take place in an arena but a giant 100+ square kilometer landscape it kind of automatically makes it a different genre)