ITT: Games NO ONE defends.

>>388655276
I like it but I won't defend

cqd

>>388655276
http://blog.lazylily.moe/2017/06/18/dark-souls-2-is-my-favorite-game-out-of-the-dark-souls-trilogy/

Go to your front door.

Walk out of it.

I like Ds2. It's hate is overblown.

DaS2 is the best one

>those environments

Fucking amazing

>>388655276
I like it but I'm not the type to argue over pointless things like vidya.

>>388655276
You serious? There's has been a bunch of DaS2 contrarians since release.

>>388655276
That's the best one so far.

>>388655276
obsessed

>>388655276
operation raccoon city

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>>388655891
Bloodborne has the best environments in terms of aesthetics and presentation.
>Muh variety
Not an argument.

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>>388655276
I wholly enjoyed the game and think it's pretty great. Any residual hate for the game is just big idiots spouting opinions that other people had years ago and probably haven't even played it.

>>388656693
>Muh aesthetics and presentation
Not an argument

>>388657371
Level design is far superior too, Central Yharnam is built around a single lamp and loops the player back to it several times whereas DaS II never does this and just throws bonfires at you like candy.

>>388655891
>those barren texture simulations

1>2>3

>>388655276

DaS2 has the best magic.

And the Best covenants

And the best PvP

And the best DLC

And Powerstancing.

DaS2 isnt nearly as bad as you faggots make it seem. It was just a huge disappointment after the perfection that is Dark Souls

>>388658109
>perfection that is Dark Souls
I see you never played past Anor Londo.

>>388658208
Not him but
>Catacombs
>Darkroot
>Ash Lake
>Duke's Archives
>Crystal Caves
>Demon Ruins

Were all cool, unique areas and really rewarding. I actually like the game more AFTER Anor Londo.

>>388659027
Oh, I also forgot the Painted World, a very well-designed area of its own right.

New Londo as well.

Is Dark Souls II essential? Or should I just skip to Bloodborne and Dark Souls III?

>>388655276
There are many contrarians out for this game, OP, but I agree with you it's the worst.

Game feels awful to play, it's floaty and slippery, feels terrible to control compared to the first and the third didn't have this problem either.

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>>388659027
What backwards reality did you just crawl out of? Crystal Caves consists of three invisible walkways and less than ten actual enemies, and Demon Ruins and Lost Izalith by extension were so god damn shit I don't even need to explain it.
Plus you can go to half of those areas before even killing O&S, so your statement is invalid and your opinion is objectively shit.

>>388659647
I didn't say Crystal Caves wasn't short, I said it's a cool unique area. Personally it's one of my favorites for its aesthetic and I think the invisible walkways with snow droplets pattering on them was a really cool way to clue you into them.

I didn't mention Lost Izalith as being a good area so don't try to throw that shit in with what I was saying. I don't think anyone really defends that area (Although the quest with Siegmeyer there was interesting as well as having a respawning titanite demon is neat).

Demon ruins was a really cool area, I loved the lore surrounding Ceaseless, how he dropped the ring his sisters gave him to quell his pain, and the centipede demon emerged.. I really like how you can get a bit of foreshadowing by SEEING the centipede demon from the ruins, same with ceaseless if you go to the first bonfire. Firesage was meh, rehash sure, but he looked pretty cool for a palette swap. Also him being weak to bleed is neat.

Let's be real here, almost nobody is going to Ash Lake/Painted World/Fully through Demon Ruins or New Londo before O&S. ESPECIALLY not on a first run-through of the game. Catacombs is debatable, you can but I like to save it for after to go straight into Tomb of the Giants.

No need to get aggressive, dude. I like those areas. Also Duke's Archives are cool, but I also like that you can perform the Seath Skip.

>>388657541
Level design in Bloodborne was mediocre you deluded faggot. It was better in previous games.

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ITT: Games you think nobody defends but despite this, a surprising amount of people always defend them in threads about them

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>>388655891

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>>388660895
Central Yharnam in terms of secrets and interconnectivity is leagues ahead of anything in the series except maybe Undead Burg and Painted World.

>>388659027
>Ash Lake
>Duke's Archives
>Crystal Caves
>Demon Ruins
Those areas were shit.

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The worst game I've ever played to date

>>388660809
Also, it was neat how in Demon Ruins old bosses got reused as normal enemies (I love when games do this). It really lets you appreciate how much stronger you've become when you can suddenly one shot Taurus/Capra demons.

Same thing with Crystal Caves, seeing a bunch of full-on Moonlight Butterflies was really cool, and it was fun to see how fast you could now take them down with a bow. It also added a lot to the already god-tier aesthetic of the area.

>>388657541
Central Yharnam isn't any better then Forest of Giants you retard. It's the same fucking shit.

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>>388655891
>>388655891

>>388661251
>You live long enough to see people defend Demon Ruins and Crystal Cave
Demon Ruins is self explanatory awful but Crystal Cave is literally fifty feet of walking in a straight line and then at the end they just dump a bunch of enemies on you because why not.

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>>388661349
Wasn't even bothered to stay there long enough to open all the chests when this game released years ago. The entire thing looked like ass.

>>388661452
>Demon Ruins is self explanatory
Then explain it, instead of spouting memes.

I already gave reasons its actually a cool area, and here's another : The only area in the game with 3 bosses, with is pretty cool.

Crystal Cave is still one of my favorite areas, and I already gave good reasons why. It's very beautiful and has a clever, thoughtful design to it.

>>388661349
kek

>>388655276
PvP was best it has ever been though and the bone fists are fun as hell

>>388656693
Bloodborne also somehow manages to have the worst plot. How it beat dark souls 2 in that regard is a mystery.

>>388656108
this. most people love it but there are a handful of screeching contrarians here that think if they claim to hate DS2 without even playing Scholar, then they are one with le /v/ hivemind and are true 4channers

>>388663381
I played Scholar and Dark Souls 2 vanilla to completion. They are the worst. Vanilla I would give a 4/10 and scholar I would give a 7.5/10

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>>388661071
>Central Yharnam
>Secrets

Tell me more about those coldblood dews and blood vials

>>388655276
I fucking wish. It'd make Souls threads on /v/ tolerable if the Dark Souls 2 Defense force didn't exist to shit up every thread reminding us what cool contrarians they are.

>>388663665
Contrarians are against Dark Souls, not for it. You're the minority. Have you seen the Metacritic?

>>388664091
Metacritic is obviously a good sample to represent the majority view of 4chan dot com

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>>388664091
Damn.........

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>>388664227
>The user score

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>>388663490
>They are the worst
I agree but I don't think they are bad by any means. Its just painfully obvious from these threads that most people havent played either. they just parrot whatever they read, though this can be applied to any game on this board. I'm always astounded to read
>DS2 combat is awful and floaty, much worse than 1
this is in every thread despite DS2 having far superior combat and movement. Fuck even on this dump when DS2 was released the general consensus even from those who thought it was a streaming pile of shit was that the combat was far better than DaS. because it is, even if that is the one thing they got right.
reminder DS2 was never intended to be a Souls title and was originally the new Kings Field, made by a smaller team at From while the main team worked on Bloodborne, but due to contractual obligations and fear of poor sales, the game was poorly transitioned in to a Souls title

>>388664405
You misunderstand. I'm proving the guy wrong that most people aren't against it. The user score is there on purpose.

>>388664405
Read the image title

>>388664405
>>388664520
have you read the negative reviews?
>bad port
>bad peecee controls
i hope they never play DS1 or they'll go on a fucking killing spree over how god awful the port is

>>388657871
This.

2 is a great game, has the best PvP and the most replayabilty out of all the Souls games.

Ohh whoops, I defended it.

>>388655891
Scientists baffled by this comment

>>388664424
Having combat better than 1 or demon souls was easy though. They'd have to be literally retarded to fuck that up.

Also better combat doesn't mean shit when it's not utilizable in fun pvp or pve.

>>388660896
>Star Fuchs Zero
It still hurts

>>388664730
Dark souls 2 does not have the best pvp. Anyone who says that it does is literally retarded.

Dark souls 2 pvp has to be the most fucked up pvp ever implemented into a game that had potential for good pvp.

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>>388664697

>>388661204
I'm glad Curt went bankrupt just so there wasn't more of this

>>388659145
As far as lore goes it's skipable. But it's a good game.

>>388661204
Not the worst, just the most mundane.

>>388664424
Technically nothing but DS3 was intended from the ground up to be a Souls title, DS1 & 2 were practically remakes of KF4 & 3. It's too bad that the PR people got wind that Dark Race would piss people off.

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>>388665314
>DS1 getting a better reaction than BB

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>>388655891

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>>388662007
>>388661251
>>388660809
>>388659027

LMAO
M
A
O

COOL HEADED ANON CHAMP BTFOS MEME SPOUTING IDIOTS


>>388659647
>>388661125
>>388661452

>>388659027
Demon ruins is my least favourite level in any of the games.

>Quelaag's Domain bonfire
>walk 10 metres for another bonfire
>fight terrible boss
>walk along linear path and fight rehashed, arbitrarily placed Capra demons and Taurus Demons
>another bonfire
>walk along linear path and fight rehashed Stray Demon boss for the third time
>another bonfire
>activate shortcut leading to a previous
>walk along linear path to fight Centipede Demon
>another bonfire
>linear path with no obstacles leads to yet another (hidden) bonfire
>continue along linear path to fight the worst boss in the game

>>388665314
>Liking DS3

Filtered somehow

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>>388655891

>>388666596
I spouted no memes Anon, perhaps you need to take a breather and cool off.

>>388655276

It's better than the first one by virtue of not having a fucked second half. Neither game has a scratch on Demon's and Bloodborne, though.

>>388666178
Bloodborne is only better than dark souls 2 and that's not saying much. Bloodborne has no fucking plot.

>>388667079
Yes it does, it probably has the most coherent lore out of any of the games. The only things we don't explicitly know from the game itself is what exactly Moon Presence's goal was but Great Ones are on a plane beyond human comprehension so it's justifiable.

What didn't you get?

>>388667079
All of these games boil down to pretty much the exact same tropes and their main appeal is that they're not full of exposition, if plot is your go-to criticism I'd say the game's just fine.

>>388667398
>has the most coherent lore

Good thing I never mentioned lore you fucking retard.

Say it with me

P L O T

>>388658109
>And Powerstancing.

if its so "great", why did 3 take it away?

>>388667481
The plot in dark souls 1, 3 and demon soul's are very coherent and not given through exposition. The only ones the seem to fuck up the plot badly are 2 and bloodborne.

>>388666852
It's hard to breathe when I'm laughing this hard

>>388667716
>coherent
>has to explain things away with "time is convoluted"
>Still just a collection of tropes

>>388666625
I am 90% sure I saw you post this same thing earlier up.

Not even going to get into how dumb it is to whine about bonfires being close to eachother with NO ENEMIES inbetween, but
>fight terrible boss
Sure, if you don't do the intended way of killing him its lackluster. You probably know it as the 'cheese method'
>Sentimental, deformed demon gets enraged that you stole the only thing left still reminding him of his sisters (Goldhemmed set, Quelana wears this.)
>When you try to flee, he makes a MASSIVE leap over a fiery chasm of lava and molten death, clinging on to the cliffside
>All he can do is pathetically moan (likely in fear and in pain, because you know, he's endlessly spewing lava out of every orifice) and try to hold on
>You almost feel bad hacking away at his claw.. and you swear his eyes twitch when he's looking at you, as if pleading
>Eventually you hack him off, and he falls to his horrible death, falling likely where he dropped his Orange Charred ring his sisters gave to him to stave off his extreme agony
>Moving along, massive quantities of magma stop flooding the ruins and cool, allowing you access down to an area where previous early bosses reside as natural enemies in the environment (Makes you wonder - how did two of them get up to undead burg?)
>Really cool looking firesage boss, admittedly a souped up Asylum Demon but it gets points for aesthetic, as well as being weak to bleed and fun to fuck up with a scythe/katana
>Further in, you unlock a really neat shortcut leading up to the Daughter of Chaos bonfire (more world inter-connectivity that you so-praise before Anor Londo)
>Past that, the chaos bugs are a neat addition to the area leading to Izalith, or
>You move along to another boss RIGHT after firesage (back-to-back bosses are pretty refreshing if you ask me) to the mutated creature that spawned from an earlier boss, dropping that ring into the lava caused this monster to appear
Low on comment space left, the place is cool

>>388668127
What do I need to explain away with "time is convoluted?"

Stop talking to me like you're argument with someone else holds sway.

>>388667948
Like I said, breathe. I don't know why it's hard for you to understand that lots of people can think the same thing.

What was so great about Ash Lake? The linearity and the greyness? What was so great about the archives, the mobs and teleporting assholes?

>>388667560
Gehrman is prisoner to the Moon Presence and the Moon Presence wants Mergo dead, Gehrman then tasks the newly found Hunter to go kill the nightmare.

>>388668246
That's a line from Dark Souls and one that's dropped by one of the most well known NPCs to boot. You didn't play the games, at best you watched someone talk about them on YouTube.

>>388668409
He's obviously appreciating the aesthetic and the visual aspects of the areas, not the gameplay aspects. Don't be so close minded.

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>>388665314

>>388668415
yes that is the lore. I'm talking about the plot. The story that the player experiences while playing the game.

Why does the hunter do ANYTHING after getting to the hunter's nightmare? Because, if we talk to Gehrman, he tells us something around the lines of "not to think about it and just go kill things."

>>388655891
Even though it's the worst looking one, it's the only one that's actually FUN to play

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>>388668648
Ash Lake looks awful though, at least Crystal Cave is aesthetically pleasing.

The most aesthetically pleasing area from Dark Souls is Darkroot though.

>>388668551
I played the games but what does the lore explanation for summoning mechanics have to do with plot you moron?

>>388668648
>aesthetic and the visual aspects
Which gets us right back to grey boringness, not to mention the Demon Ruins literally hurting your eyes if you don't adjust your brightness. Also he specifically mentioned enemies at least once.

>another contrarian DaS2 hate thread made by a nu/v/edditor
pathetic op
91

>>388668707
*hunter's dream

>>388668648
I actually also really enjoyed there was a tougher "Black" Hydra down there, was a cool fight, I love hidden bosses like that. Also the dragon greatsword is here, which is neat.

>>388667716
The plots in 1 and 3 are boring though. At least 2 Has that story with the kings and abyss daughters instead of "everybody's dying, will you do nothing or do nothing?"

>>388667716
How does 2 fuck up the plot? Fragments of Manus survive and develop distinctive personalities, developing and being drawn to incredible power. One of them meets Vendrick and starts the events which lead up to the start of the game.

>>388658109
DaS2 also has the worst boss battles, the worst levels, and Soul Memory.

>>388668707
No that's the plot. Your character has some sort of disease or infection and has come to Yharnam who are famous for their use of blood for medical related purposes. You are then told that 'everything will seem like a bad dream' and you then awake at the Hunter's Dream and are told that in order to get the blood they need for the transfusion that they need to 'stop the source of the nightmare', this is Mergo.

That's the plot, while we don't know why Moon Presence wants Mergo dead there are many speculations out there that make sense and as already stated the Great One's wills are on an entire different plane of thought. Willem and Laurence tried to ascend to their level to comprehend them.

>>388668798
>lore
So I guess we're just going to ignore all of the subPLOTs that happen because of that nonsense.

>>388669015
>>388669063
you two retards keep mistaking lore for plot.

>>388657541
>Central Yharnam is built around a single lamp and loops the player back to it several times
And how is that supposed to automatically make a level good?

>>388663647
The music box stuff is pretty clever

>>388669124
yes because my original post was about the plot of the game.

>>388664424
>despite DS2 having far superior combat and movement
Is this bait? I've only played DaS2 with no patches so they may have changed something but between the 3 souls I've played(DeS,DaS and Das2) the combat and movement of DaS2 was,without a doubt, the worst of them

>>388669067
At least the levels are memorable unlike the grey mess that is ds3 and bloodborne

>>388668227
Are you vaatividya

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>>388669228
>Posting this nonsense 1 minute after railing against other Anons for not focusing on the plot

>>388669317
Bloodborne had far, far, FAR better levels than Dark Souls 2. You are insane.

>>388655276
Actual answer would be Deus Ex Invisible War, and dmc2.

>>388669146
Explain then, cause if that's your argument then none of the souls games have plot

>>388656693
>every environment looks the same isn't an agreement against the aesthetic and presentation

>>388669097
>Your character has some sort of disease or infection and has come to Yharnam who are famous for their use of blood for medical related purposes

Where does the game explicitly say this? Show me the cut-scene or the dialogue.

> 'stop the source of the nightmare'

This isn't a quest explicitly given to you. It's on a note iirc. So not plot but lore related.

>>388669390
Not better, more memorable.

>>388667668
Because they wouldn't know how to balance weapon arts around it.

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rec me a fun build for DaS1, I'm out of ideas

>>388669348
No but I guess I should appreciate being likened to him

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>>388669147
Because levels like Undead Burg, Painted World and Central Yharnam that have paths radiate from a central location have a ton of ways to traverse them and it's inherently satisfying when you loop back and realize that you now can approach the level from an entirely different path from when you started.

Dark Souls II and III just throw bonfires in a linear path at the player rather than actually making interesting levels that reward exploration for finding shortcuts. You can't name a single level from II or III that are as well done as Undead Burg, Painted World or Central Yharnam.

>>388669380
you're not making any sense. How does railing against you for not focusing on the plot contradict railing against other anons for not focusing on the plot?

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>>388655276
No matter how many valid criticisms you have of a game there's ALWAYS some fucker who has nothing to say but
>I liked it and I don't get the hate

Pic unrelated

>>388669565
And that is still false. I can vividly remember places like the Forbiden Woods with its winding shortcuts and only one lantern, Old Yharnam with Djura shooting at you, the Nightmare of Mensis with the frenzy eye and crazy castle, and the wonderful Upper Cathedral Ward.

The only areas that inspire that feeling for me in 2 are Shrine of Amana, the Gutter and Drangleic Castle.

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I'm sure someone here will defend it

>>388668772
>>388668858

It doesn't look awful at all. It's hauntingly beautiful when you consider the lore behind it and why it looks the way it is.

>>388669594
Bleed build with Lifehunt

>>388669561
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbH9jh5zU08
You wouldn't be getting a blood transfusion at the city known for using its mysterious blood for medical reasons without having some sort of need for it which would obviously be medical related.

Some things can just be deduced because there is no other logical reason.

>>388669668
But why is that BETTER, just cause it's nonlinear?

>>388657541
Don't reply to fanboys. They go through insane mental gymnastics to convince themselves and others that 2 has level design better than the others.

>>388669751
>It's hauntingly beautiful when you consider the lore behind it
That is dumb. A fugly forest doesn't become beautiful once you find out that something cool happened there once.

>>388659027
Out of all those areas, I only enjoyed Ash Lake and Demon Ruins (and really, I think it's more the IDEA of the areas that I enjoy). Darkroot and Catacombs are passable (Catacombs is well designed, but I don't really care about the idea in the first place), Duke's Archives is somehow boring even with the forced kill and emprisonment and fuck Crystal Caves.

>>388669828
Maybe you're getting the blood transfusion to become a hunter?

Again we're now talking lore and not plot.

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In this thread we list things Dark Souls 2 did that were far better than Dark Souls 3. I'll start:

>No bonfire and no death challenge where you can beat the game without resting at a bonfire or dying to gain a reward and bragging rights

>Non-linear first half of the game allows you to rush straight to the areas of the game that contain the items for your build

>Chugging Estus immobilizes you, and the heal isn't instantaneous meaning trying to chug while someone is sticking close to you will result in death

>Stamina regeneration is tied to weight, so a character at 10% burden will recover their bar faster than a character at 70% burden, giving an advantage and a reason to make a low burden character

>Poise exists and armor provides relevant, but not overpowering damage reduction, giving an advantage and a reason to make a high burden character

>Phantoms and Dark Spirits cannot chug estus, spirits can only heal via spell useage which is slow. This makes fighting outnumbered even without mob assistance possible since any damage you do sticks

>Can only perform four rolls before running out of stamina

>Can only perform 5 attacks of a rapier or straight sword before running out of stamina

>Parrying has longer recovery frames and consumes more stamina, making parry fishing riskier and makes parrying require higher skill

>Power stance allowing for unique combinations of dual wielding and unlocking an alternative moveset for weapons

>Being able to use the full moveset of a weapon in your off-hand including running, rolling, backstepping, etc. attacks rather than just being able to do a basic R1 swing and blocking with the weapon as it is in Ds3 (lmao who would ever want to weapon block)

>Bell Tower covenant providing two unique optional areas to PvP for Titanite Chunks, Slabs, and Twinkling, making farming for upgrades fun

>Bonfire ascetics to replay bosses you like and or gain items from NG+ and beyond without grinding through the whole game again

>>388669694
Nah. Still just a grey/blue blur to me

>>388669670
>railing against you for not focusing on the plot
You didn't, at least not in your most recent post. You tried to backpedal out of this plot nonsense entirely because you talked yourself into a corner because you didn't play the games.

>>388669668
Cathedral of the Deep is pretty fucking good level design, anon. Not even him. Multiple shortcuts, different ways to approach the level once you open them, etc. Same could be said of Irithyll Dungeon, pretty cool area.

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I loved this game as a kid,and am enjoying playing through it again.

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>>388669990
You're entitled to your opinions, however wrong they are.

>>388669840
It rewards exploration better, when you arrive in the courtyard and open the door back to the bonfire and then drop down the well and find a lever to open the other door giving you a straight shot to the boss that's satisfying because I was rewarded for exploring the world.

These games are action adventure at their core and as long as non linear design doesn't detract from the game in anyway (like in Dark Souls II where they give you three paths so they have to be equally balanced meaning the one you do last you'll be overpowered for) then I would argue it's better. Like I said Undead Burg, Painted World and Central Yharnam are by far the best individually designed levels because of how well you are rewarded for exploration and how non linear the exploration itself is. There's nothing wrong with more linear gauntlet style challenge levels but I do prefer the more open ended levels and it's disappointing that neither II or III has any of them in the game.

>>388669668
Mate, a sewer level can have """good level design""" like you mean, and it's still gonna remain a fucking sewer level. Shortcuts and bonfire placement don't automatically make a level good, they're supposed to enhance the exploration and tension of the areas which all depends on the atmosphere or idea it's trying to set.

>>388669668
Cathedral of the Deep and Farron Keep are probably two of the best levels in Dark Souls 3, in terms of giving players freedom to explore as they see fit.

Of course. /v/ hates Farron Keep because they're casuals.

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>>388661349
I like DaS2 but I gotta admit this area does look like N64 tier textures

>>388663159
>bloodborne's coherent and cohesive plot is somehow worse than dark souls 2's plot of cycles that only exist as nostalgiabait
Let me guess, you felt like the whole lovecraft angle came out of nowhere?

>>388669991
No I did not try to backpedal out of this "plot nonsense entirely." I literally told you that "subplots" aren't important because my argument is about the PLOT of the games. This further entrenched my ideas not "backpedaled" from them you moron.

>>388663159
>Bloodborne has a worse plot than DaS2
Literally what

The only good plot we got from 2 was the shards of Manus stuff from the dlc.

>>388670209
Bloodborne literally has no plot outside of "kill things because you're a hunter."

>>388670137
Hey that's actually the first good answer I've seen in this thread

>>388670017
>>388670194
I will concede my point that III doesn't have any as Cathedral of the Deep is good, I just forgot about it but I still wouldn't put it above the other three I mentioned.

>>388670363
The plot is to shit is falling apart because of the source of the beast scourge, go stop it.

That's better than "go cure your curse oh wait lol you're going to become a king but perhaps..."

>>388669146
Curse bearer gets drawn to the a faraway land in hopes of finding a cure and being able to return home. Meets a mysterious green cloaked lady who promises to serve and provide a cure for the affliction (which the truth behind that was pretty nice), while actually serving another purpose. As they complete the steps and learn more about the curse they draw the attention of a Daughter of Manus, who also promises a cure while also serving another purpose. Our hero fights through everything to learn that there really isn't anything they can do to change their fate, but is suddenly given another option by a third overseer who's been along for the ride.

I'm sure there's plenty I missed it's been a while. But it keeps the themes of dark souls without being a complete rehash. What's fucked up about it.

>>388670332
that's lore. Not plot.

>>388670363
>literally
I see you're using words incorrectly again, because that's literally not true. Bloodborne handles the plot in the exact same way that Demon's Souls and Dark Souls 1/2/3 handle the plot. In the exact same manner, with the exact same types of exposition as the aforementioned Souls games.

>>388670453
No, its literally the plot. Did you not read the note in the Hunter's Dream?

Your character's only hope of escaping the dream is to stop the spreading beast scourge. That is the plot.

>>388670453
Then what is plot? Opening and ending cutscene? Cause thats the only story any of the souls games actually give you.

>>388670443
>>388670446
You morons seem to be confused. I also think dark souls 2 has horrible plot. I just think it's slightly better than bloodborne because it at least tries to give you an understanding of what you're doing.

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>Dark Souls II has better level design than the firs-

>>388670683
>say something retarded
>get called out on it
>WOW YOU GUYS ARE MORONS

>>388669668
The inclusion of fast travel made looping areas unnecessary from a gameplay perspective. Then it became more about what those areas meant rather than how you traveled them.

>>388670536
A letter than may more may not be directed to you is not plot. It's lore. Plot is WHAT you are doing and WHY you are doing it.

Why did you kill ROM? Lore wise there's a lot of explanations for why killing rom was necessary. None of which was known to the character outside of a few random notes suggesting it that the player character might not even read.

>>388670821
The immediate availability of fast-travel in 2/3 was also a mistake.

>>388670753
That's world design, not individual level design. But D1 does both better than 2.

>>388670503
No you are wrong. Demon souls has the best plot and it is done completely differently than bloodborne's plot.

You know exactly what you're doing and why you're doing it as soon as you talk to the monumental.

You know exactly what is going on after the first cutscene.

>>388670753
Has anyone said this without being a blatant contrarian?

>>388669885
It becomes melancholy then, somber, slightly depressing. And it plays on visual themes and color palettes that reflect that. That doesn't make it bad.

>>388670634
Essentially, why are you doing the things you're doing. In BB, the first note you get asks you to seek paleblood, then when you ask the guy in the house next to the lantern, he tells you he doesn't know that shit, but the Healing Church is good at knowing blood in general and they're situated in the Grand Cathedral, so that's your goal for the first part of the game for example. You might easily miss that note and that NPC, but then again, you weren't forced to know about the second Bell of Awakening in Blighttown from the crestfallen dude.

>>388670634
Plot is what your player character is doing and WHY he is doing it. At least for video games.

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>>388670753

It's like they tried to make an in-between of Demon's and DS1.

>best NG+ for PvE
>all those different bosses to start at
>in the game with the worst PvE and bosses

>>388670894
>A letter than may more may not be directed to you is not plot.
Are you retarded? It says this:

>"To escape this dreadful Hunter's Dream, halt the source of the spreading scourge of beasts, lest the night carry on forever."

And you're telling us that this isn't addressed to you, the Hunter? Go kill yourself, you backpeddling weenie.

speedruning l4d2 is more fun than any dark souls game

>>388670821
Fast travel from the start is something I very much disagree with because you're right it leads the level designers to not worry about interconnectivity but consider how easy it was to traverse the first half of Dark Souls.

To get from Blighttown (the lowest point) to Sen's Fortress (the highest point) all you had to do was get on the elevator to Blighttown and then arrive at New Londo, take the elevator to Firelink, take the elevator to Parish and then run a couple hundred feet and you were at Sen's.

>>388670894
Rom is the seal behind the Mensis ritual, that's why Willem beckons you to the edge because he knows the only way to end it is to continue the ritual.

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>>388671110
>It's like they tried to make an in-between of Demon's and DS1.

oh and it sucked

>>388670894
>"To escape this dreadful Hunter's Dream, halt the source of the spreading scourge of beasts, lest the night carry on forever."
So you could gain access to the Nightmare of Mensis to put Mergo to death you fucking mouthbreather

>>388671192
I KNOW THE LORE REASON BEHIND WHY KILLING ROM IS NECESSARY. STOP RESPONDING IF YOUR IQ IS BELOW 20

>>388671302
>STOP PROVING ME WRONG STOP IT STOP IT

>>388670991
I didn't say anything about plot quality you fucking bucket, so I don't know where you're getting that from. I simply stated that Bloodborne tells its story in the same manner as the other Souls entries, which it does.
You know there's a whole other conversation being carried out in this exact thread about this exact subject so I'm just gonna refer to this post: >>388671126 as to why you're wrong about Bloodborne's plot. The player does know exactly what they need to do from the very beginning of the game in Bloodborne if they read that letter, which any curious player would do. Why wouldn't they? It's a shining object left sitting right there in front of them after an interesting cutscene.
Oh hey, "stop the spread of the scourge of beasts to escape"? Surely that's my goal here in this beast-afflicted hell-hole!
Just so happens that along the way to succeeding in that goal, you uncover some real cosmic shit.

>>388655448
was going to come comment this

the game is fun but it's hard to defend a lot of it

>>388671302
>Ask why Rom was killed
>Get answer that is stated in the game
>STOP RESPONDING
What did he mean by this?

>>388671208
right which is the lore. Not the plot. The plot is that you're literally just killing anything in your way because that's what hunters do and you just somehow manage to end up in the right place.

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>>388671192
>start strunk barbarian lady
>thinkin about weapons
>realize I can just run into blighttown, grab the great club, then bone-tfo

More of this in next Souls-like, please

>>388671387
I hated it back in vanilla back when Soul Memory destroyed fun coop, but the inclusion of the Agape Ring allows me to enjoy it.

>>388671442
Right I literally said in my first post that there were lots of lore explanations. I LITERALLY CONCEDED THAT THERE WAS LORE EXPLANATIONS. Then I asked for a PLOT explanation and you sub 20 iq morons gave me a lore explanation.

>>388671461
Everyone in the thread is disagreeing with you on that. Its the plot, despite your autistic screeching. You're just trying to dumb down the plot because you don't like it and you want to win an internet argument.

>>388669668
This.

>>388671486
>Can kill either Quelaag, Pinwheel, Sif, Moonlight Butterfly or Taurus Demon as your first boss from Firelink
Options is what II and III are sorely lacking.

>>388671662
2 has fuckloads of options, that is not the problem with DaS2 at all.

>>388671576
It doesn't matter how many of you are wrong. Random letters do not constitute plot.

>>388671546
Because you need to proceed with the ritual in order to silence the baby's cries which is what you are tasked with at the start of the game.

>>388671713
Okay, so every Souls game is "just kill stuff until the game ends" because by your logic, text and dialogue and anything that the player can miss is lore.

>>388671492
i've only played sotfs i should mention which i hear bad and good about

>>388671192
>To get from Blighttown (the lowest point) to Sen's Fortress (the highest point) all you had to do was get on the elevator to Blighttown and then arrive at New Londo, take the elevator to Firelink, take the elevator to Parish and then run a couple hundred feet and you were at Sen's.
Yeah but here's the thing, you're always forced to use elevation to build your world by doing so. Interconnected worlds like Dark Souls, 2D Metroid games, Metroid Prime, it seems they can't afford to make their levels too large horizontally else they're gonna have a hard time connecting them. Since the idea of DaS2 was making the game's world feel large, almost like you're traveling an entire country, cramping up everything for the sake of interconnection wouldn't have brought that feeling quite right (they still fucked up doing what they tried anyway but hey). In that sense, forcing interconnection can limit creativity, even though you can always work around it like DaS1.

>>388671802
SotFS has some obnoxious enemy placement changes but for the most part it is better than the vanilla game.

>>388669067
Soul memory is good
No matter how much /v/ is screeching about it.

Death has way more weight in DS2
Fuck you for trying to die your way through the game

>>388671785
Absolutely wrong for demon souls, dark souls 1, and dark souls 3. Dialogue with important npcs do constitute plot. So do cutscenes. Random letters that do not even request anything of you but simply tell you what will happen if you do something in a vague way do not constitute plot.

In the aforementioned games the plot isn't ambiguous at all. The letters that you guys are suggesting constitute plot are very vague and are not specific at all outside of maybe the rom one.

>>388671839
Resident Evil is very interconnected and doesn't really rely on lots of verticality, it's actually more non linear than Metroid Prime because you can do the section surrounding the Death Masks in any order you want but you are right that Dark Souls does heavily rely on verticality but I don't agree that it limits creativity, the sheer amount of options you have with Dark Souls with a Master Key is staggering. I've done routes where I gone Pinwheel -> Quelaag -> Sif -> Taurus Demon which I would've never even thought of doing my first time going through.

>>388671906
Soul Memory is not good. It punishes people for repairing weapons, experimenting with builds and cooping by pushing them up into higher and higher brackets in a game where it is already difficult to connect for cooperative play with your friends. It does nothing to prevent twinks because you can always just back up and reload your saves anyways.

Also SM has nothing do with death having more weight because you can just get your souls back. What SM does is cause situations where an invader invades your game and kills themselves to push you into a higher bracket.

Honestly, you should kill yourself. The agape ring was something universally approved and an admission of the failure of the system.

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>reading about ADP
>"oh, okay you have to decide how to level your character against similar soul levels with how you want to dodge, neat"
>find out matchmaking is based solely on SM
>"okay...maybe soul progression is harder or as hard as DS1 this time around"
>DS2 shits out souls like crazy

What the FUCK

It's just a dumpstat. What other purpose does it serve?

>>388659145
it has interesting lore, just doesnt add much to the overall "gwyn and fire linking" thing that ds1 and 3 do. its still pretty fun tho.

>>388671906
>soul memory is good

Found the trash opinion. Literally anyone who thinks like this should be gassed to prevent our collective IQ from dropping.

>>388672026
>Its not plot because I say so
You're a joke.

>>388670270
>I did not try to backpedal out of this "plot nonsense entirely."
Yes you did, you're asserting that plots that don't fit your narrative don't matter. The small things are the only things that differentiate the major tropes that make up the plots of these games. Say that the small things don't matter and you're left with the same generic fantasy plot that FROM's been milking since KF.

>>388666021
>DS1 & 2 were practically remakes of KF4 & 3.
How so?

>>388671880
i've heard the enemy placement is better, and i've also heard it was worse.

i liked it a lot but what i've seen of normal ds2 doesn't look as good


i wish they'd go back through dark souls 1,, 2, and 3, and finish each one, graphics wise, enemy placement wise, etc etc

>>388672213
>you're asserting that plots that don't fit your narrative don't matter

Where did I do this?

>>388671036
If you have to excuse how an area looks because something cool happened there once then the area looks like shit and you're simply justifying it with "but it's supposed to look like shit."

>>388655276
Has the most fun builds in the entire series

>>388671546
Your character was a hunter whose job to run around killing weird shit until the hunt ended. Killing Rom fit both of your characters goals.

Even if your character didn't know about the ritual (which they could have learned from the old guy outside the lake), they probably figured that leaving a giant monster under a lake near a town was a bad idea.

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>>388672328
Forgot pic.

>>388672182
It really shows that you have a low iq if you think random letters with vague assertions that aren't even requests constitute good plot.

That's totally the same thing dark souls 1, dark souls 3, and demon souls did amiright?

>>388672150
The real dumpstat of DaS2 is Vitality. Agility you pretty much just want that at certain key levels like 88, 96 or 105.

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>>388671662
>>388671702

II has a ton of options and variety but if it's referring to anything besides builds or fashion it just sucks.

>most replayable game is least playable

>>388672284
Not that fag, but a there was a clear point made by the letter: "Do the thing or stay trapped forever". That's plot.

>>388671546
The plot explanation is that killing Rom will allow you to access the Nightmare of Mensis, which will allow you to eliminate Mergo, which fits MP's goals. You know this basic plot from the start of the game.

I'd love to hear what you think the difference between plot and lore is.

>>388672380
Yes earlier in this thread I literally said that the entire plot was basically

>hunter goes around killing things
>happens to end up in the right location and kills the right things.

Glad you agree with me.

>>388672284
>I literally told you that "subplots" aren't important

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>>388668691

dis.

Dunno why people that hated DS2 like DS3 when is just a little bit better. Ds2 Bteam was unorinigal but DS3 is as well.

>>388672450
What the fuck are you talking about? I think Dark Souls 2 is the worst one but you have so so many options for first bosses, even compared to DaS1. You're crazy.

>>388671662
Dark Souls 2 let's you go straight to
>The Last Giant
>Executioners Chariot
>The Pursuer
>Skeleton Lords
>Ruin Sentinels
>Royal Rat Vanguard
>Scorpioness
>The Rotten
>Old Dragonslayer
>Dragonrider

What were you lying?

>>388672527
>the plot explanation is that killing rom will allow you to access the nightmare of mensis

that's the lore explanation. If you think it's plot then explain to me why the player character knows these things.

Protip: don't say vague letter

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>>388672172
>thought souls memory = souls SPENT
>you can lose every soul you get from killing every boss and be matched with someone who didn't
>"SL1 SMbillion = SL200 SMbillion"

And this was made to HELP people? And then they make a ring where you can twink?

>>388672225
There's too much too list, stuff like Sen's Fortress and New Londo were pretty much taken straight from KF. Even a certain knight overcome by darkness who uses a greatsword and powers up with an AoE.

>>388672705
Yeah but those don't count dumbass.

>>388672825
Explain what you think the difference is between plot and lore. Because the Hunter's Dream literally contains a note explaining your character's goal for the game directly to you.

>>388670683
How are the literal events of the game not plot m8


>>388670446

>>388672573
yes subplots aren't important. The plot of the game is important though. Two different things.

>>388672705
You can't go to Executioner's Chariot and Skeleton Lords until you get access to the miracle lady, for that you have to kill the Dragonrider. Not sure how you can get to Ruin Sentinels without killing a boss though. You can however get to Twin Dragonrider, Darklurker and Aava.

>>388671192
>>388670972

It's a relief to not have to run everywhere, not a curse.

>>388672912
I hope you fall down a flight of stairs.

>>388672705
>>388672928
Oh and the Rotten.

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>Let's make Sif but with four poison rats that will decide the outcome of the fight right at the beginning
Reminder people who say Dark Souls II had good bosses are contrarians.

>>388672894
Whether or not the letters constitute plot is arguable. I'd argue that if they are technically plot then they are a horrible way of conveying plot and completely antithetical to every other way the souls series has conveyed plot.

Either way the letters are vague and don't give you any sense of direction. Unlike say the crestfallen knight in dark souls 1 and the monumental in demon souls. Or Frampt in Dark souls 1 or the firekeeper in dark souls 3.

>>388673203
>posion rats
Worse, toxic rats. What the fuck were they thinking, it was either a snooze fight or you get murdered in the first 15 seconds.

>>388670198
>>388661349
Did anyone feel oddly nostalgic while playing DS2? The shitty textures tricked some part of my brain into thinking it was the early 2000s.

>>388673050
what's so confusing about this? My original post was about the overarching plot of the game.

>>388672912
>The small details that make the games truly interesting aren't important
>What's important is the basic bitch tropes that are present in every game
Dude I'm very close to done with this. I should've known from the instant you didn't recognize one of the most famous lines in the franchise that this was going to be like talking to a brick wall.

>>388673253
>Whether or not the letters constitute plot is arguable
The only person arguing about it is you because you're saying NUH UH NUH UH, even though you have to give a reason why the letter explaining the goal of the game isn't the plot of the game.

>>388673285
The idea was to get the boss to stun his own rats via his swipes, but no one noticed and it's pretty much irrelevant so they fucked up.

>>388672853
OH OH! I KNOW! I think I know it!

It's Artorias!

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>>388673203
>Let's make a platformer boss in a game that doesn't have a dedicated jump button
>Not even optional
Reminder people who say Dark Souls had good bosses are contrarians.

see? i can nitpick too.

>>388673358
Why did you think I was talking to you? Don't you know the difference between a post and lore?

>>388673381
Not his fault you don't know what a fucking plot is. Go back to high school.

>>388673203
>have 400 lb armor
>baby rat bumps into you for half your health
Fuck that fight and everything about rats in that gay game.

>>388673203
Yeah I love 2 but that boss is honestly garbage. The other rat boss is a nice little gimmick but this shit is fucking annoying.

>>388673381
If by "important" you mean "relevant to the original post" then I would agree that your greentext representation of my arguments would be accurate.

>>388672312
That still doesn't make it bad. It's beautiful because it looks like shit, not in spite of it.

>>388673569
I'm really, really confused about your shitposting logic here. What is your endgame?

>>388673203
>lingering flame

thats literally all it takes to kill them. Sorry you had to strategize for once.

>>388655891
I... I also liked ds2 the most...

>>388673676
my end game is to substantiate and defend my original position that Bloodborne does not have good plot.

>>388673797
You're doing a terrible job at it.

>>388673775
>cheesing the game with magic
redditor detected

>>388673831
well so far I've destroyed everyone who has ever responded to me so i feel like im doing a good job.

>>388673775
Oh that makes it a good boss then nevermind

>>388669704
my friend thought it was fun

>>388672385
Fuck off senpai, DS2's builds are way better, stop impersonating me

>>388658208
The fact that Dark Souls is the longest of the 3 games and many of the areas after Anor Londo were optional make up for weaknesses.

>>388673203
Lets just ignore Velstadt, Raime, Darklurker and uhh.. oh yeah Bed of Chaos.

>>388673901
No, all you've done is screech about a letter not counting for some reason.

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>>388673203
>Dark Souls II had bad bosse-
Apologize.

>>388674226
shit boss

>>388674226
Dark Souls 2 had a few great bosses and at least a dozen garbage bosses. Its the worst ratio of good to bad out of any Souls game.

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>>388672632

I'm saying yes. I'm also saying they all suck. There are VERY few redeeming bosses in base.

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>>388674226
but thats the wrong pic anon

>>388674139
What???
I like DaS1 the most, but 2 was MASSIVELY long (part of the reason it was SUCH a slog)

the other offender being its shitty movement feel and how ass it felt to play compared to 1 or 3, or even Demon's

>>388674386
No, you said there were no options beyond builds or fashion, which is blatantly false. Its okay to make mistakes, anon.

>>388673497
I know what a plot is Anon, my point is that all of the games have the same plot and can only be differentiated if you look closely at them and even then the games that are generally considered the best aren't coherent.

>>388673569
>I would agree
Good.

>>388674220
Wow if only one of the other souls games used letters to hamfist a plot in at last second after they released there was no reason for the player character to do anything after reaching the starting area.

They made the mistake of having good writing and plot.

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>>388674324
*blocks your path*
>Rom
>One Reborn
>Witches of Hemwick
>Micolash
>Celestial Emissary

>>388674517
>at the last second after they released
Is there a source for them adding the letter as a last minute addition to the game or are you just pathetically making shit up?

You don't have to answer, we all know its the second option.

>>388674517
*realized

>>388674592
>disliking Rom, which is a great callback to Vanguard
>disliking one of the better gimmick bosses, Witches
>disliking The One Reborn, a fun callback to Tower Knight
Shit taste detected

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>>388674458

You're right. I am sorry.

II has a ton of options and variety but they're stuck in the worst game in the series so they're mostly pointless.

>>388674517
>lying to win an internet argument
nice

>>388674592
>>Rom
>>One Reborn
>>Witches of Hemwick
>>Micolash
>>Celestial Emissary
None of those are even remotely bad.

>>388674593
if only there was a way for me to infer it by looking at the surrounding data. Idk maybe the complete lack of explanation of anything that's going on would give it away.

>>388673892
how is that cheesing? you mad cuz you want to use 1 fuckin weapon the whole game?

>>388674681
>Fun callback to Tower Knight
It tried to be but the boss literally does not move around, you just get up close to it and starting wailing on it. It's a terrible fight, all of the ones you mentioned are but One Reborn takes the cake because the music and design are 10/10 but the fight is a 4/10.

>>388674834
So the answer is that you have no source for the letter being added at the last minute, and you're just desperately trying to be right.

>>388656693
How is lack of environment variety not an argument against presentation and aethstetic?

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>>388674812

I personally would hate Micholash like crazy if he was just a no-name/personality NPC and not one of the most memorable in the series.

>>388674846
t. easy mode reddit cuck

>>388674859
I'd love to hear why you think Rom is a terrible boss fight. Its one of my favorites.

>>388674910
nah man my source is that I read it on a letter I found.

>>388674834
There's tons of explanation, but you keep waving it away as lore and subplots.

>>388675018
Alrighty, thanks for making a fool out of yourself for everyone to laugh at.

>>388670753
Who said this without trying to bait replies?

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>>388674998
There's nothing to it really, you kill her spiders then attack her and she teleports away. Her only attacks are shooting those meteors at you that are easily dodged by running. It's a very slow and long fight with nothing interesting about it at all, it's also incredibly easy.

Best fight in the base game is definitely this guy.

>>388674846
Being able to kill it easy with 1 thing doesn't somehbow make up for the rest of the bosses shortcomings, kid.

>>388675326
>There's nothing to it really, you kill her spiders then attack her and she teleports away
You could use that simplistic explanation with any bosses. Rom's attacks are interesting, forcing you to evade projectiles from above and below, with an AOE and a flail to prevent you from hugging her tight. Its not a slow fight at all unless you chose to make it slow, because you can choose to go for Rom quickly instead of taking on the spiders. Having multiple ways to approach the fight makes it interesting.

Logarius is fine, he's not the best humanoid boss in the game though.

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>>388675326
>best intro in the whole series is definitely this guy

Worth seeing every playthrough

>>388675075
>>388675170

Dark souls 1 would have been a lot better if random text appear everywhere explaining what was happening.

You guys are right. Instead of interesting development of a story let's just use the message system to explain what's going on.

Fuck the crestfallen knight and frampt. Let's just replace them with a random letter that tells you what to do in a vague spooky way.

I'll start working on a mod right away. Fixing Dark souls 1, Bloodborne style.

>>388675607
Get a life and stop shitposting, bro.

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>>388675539
I mean Ebrietas does everything you said but much better and only an idiot would not clear out the spiders beforehand since it makes the fight unnecessarily hard by not doing such, it's just not a fight I look forward too because it commits two cardinal sins: being both long and boring.

It's not Royal Rat Authority bad or anything but even Shadow of Yharnam is a more fun fight, actually I love that fight because like Logarius you have to have really good spacing with the enemy.

>>388675890
Ebby has spiders? She summons lasers from below? She has an AOE?

No, that's silly. Also why are you implying that Shadows of Yharnam isn't a good fight? Its probably the best gank squad From ever made.

>>388675890
> only an idiot would not clear out the spiders beforehand since it makes the fight unnecessarily hard by not doing such
If you're bad. Its weird, because you just complained about the fight being too slow and easy.

>>388675987
Yes she has A Call Beyond which is far harder to dodge and her tentacle swings cover a massive area.

>Also why are you implying that Shadows of Yharnam isn't a good fight?
I just said I loved it though and posted a cuhrayzee webm of the fight.

>>388676137
A Call Beyond isn't really an AOE, its just a bunch of lasers that shoot right at you. Unless you're referring to her aura of health drain.

I really don't get your logic, Ebrietas and Rom realy are quite different.

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>>388666690
holy repeating wall texture

>>388660896
Color Splash was alright. Considering Nintendo seems to be done with making Paper Mario games similar to the first 3, it wasn't bad. Sticker Star was literal cancer though.

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>>388676198
I'm not really trying to compare them but I just found Ebrietas more engaging because it's a much more active and challenging fight, there's very little downtime with Ebrietas because of how mobile she is.

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>>388676414
>I'm not really trying to compare them

>I mean Ebrietas does everything you said but much better

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>>388676531
You said that Rom was good because you avoided projectiles and her moves made you avoid just hugging her and mashing which a lot of bosses suffer from in Bloodborne. Ebrietas has both of those traits which is why I mentioned her I'm not saying they're the same boss but I felt that those two aspects were done better in that fight because it's a lot faster.

>>388677045
Fair enough, but those are traits that other bosses share. The nature of Rom's fight (having minions that aren't unlimited yet are immune to her attacks) make the fight unique and memorable.

I also would argue Rom is a faster fight than Ebriatas but you can choose to make it slower, I guess.

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>>388677249
I just don't see a reason to ignore the spiders when they're easily killed, I see no reason to make a fight harder than it has to be excluding summoning and using weaknesses (those are just things I personally choose not to do, not frowning upon them since they're intended game mechanics). I guess I'm being a little arbitrary but the spiders are a specific part of the boss fight and summoning and using something like bolt paper isn't.

>>388677475
I don't know why you think focusing on Rom makes the fight harder. You just don't get hit by the spiders, and you hit Rom. She doesn't have that much health and by moving in and out you can just keep hitting her because she has long windows between attacks and telegraphs like crazy. Its exciting to dodge through a swarm of spiders and take her out.

>>388677626
Because you have spiders attacking you when normally you wouldn't. The less enemies you have to worry about the easier something is going to be.

>>388663381
I just started playing scholar after vanilla and Im hating both but it's the only Souls game i have on my library atm

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>>388655276
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRTfcMeqhig

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>>388678530
>TFW he's right and you realize Dark Souls II is a straight masterpiece

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>>388678530
>All those passive aggressive attacks

Dark souls 2 SOTFS definitely has the most patrician lore on the series, and I can and will defend this

>>388679774
I assume youre referring to the daughters of Manus stuff. I like it but I don't think its the best.

>>388670753
Is there a version with DaS3 added?

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>>388680560
Not that I know of but here's 3's progression map.

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>>388680638

>>388680334
Vendrick as a whole and the entire concept of drangleic existing as a place where firekeepers lure undead who are desperate to rid themselves of the curse is pretty cool desu. Instead of le recurring memes, it gives the events some weight

>>388656570
Underrated post.

>>388680783
Vendrick was lame and nothing about Drangleic really makes sense. I dislike the whole LOL THE LAND IS CURSED AND THE LORD SOULS WILL ENDLESSLY REINCARNATE, that was bland and meshed poorly with DaS1. Since when did Seath have a soul, for example?

Ivory King was far more interesting than Vendrick.

>>388680638
Stray Demon isn't a boss in 3, what the fuck?

>>388672150
I-frames in your rolls

Guide to souls:-
1. Demon's Souls, the original, and still does things none of its successors do. It's also short and sweet, play it even if you think it's okay at best.
2. Dark Souls, Demon's with a budget. Polishes stuff, adds good stuff, plenty of content, good shit all around. Not as consistent quality wise as Demon's due to the massive drop in area quality in the second half (game got rushed out).
3. Bloodborne, the spiritual successor, and only worthy addition to the original 2. It changes things around a lot, but still manages to be a classic. It also has Demon's consistent quality, with no real drops.

bonus:-
Dark Souls 3. Want more of the same? Itching for some souls fan service? Play this once. The core gameplay holds up to the trifecta (the balance is really bad though, and it can't make up its mind whether it wants to be souls or BB), but don't expect it to match them in anything else other than maybe boss designs and audio/graphics.

Some people will recommend you meme clones like Salt and Sanctuary, Lords of the Fallen, and Dark Souls 2, but they're just doing it for (you)s. None of those games have anything to do with Souls other than a passing, shallow resemblance in hopes of capturing its audience.

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>>388668691

>>388683274
Dark Souls 3 has been out for a few years?

>>388683132
Salt and Sanctuary takes massive inspiration from the Souls games and is quite fun (especially coop) not sure what you're on about.

>>388683274
Good list, III manages to do absolutely nothing above average.

>>388683383
it was so forgettable that it feels like it

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>>388683132
Were sequels a mistake?

>>388682414
What about it didn't make sense?

Vendrick was obvs a cursed undead, and with the help of his brother invaded a stable time line wherein he could try and lift the undead curse, hence why firekeepers from various time lines guide undead to drangleic.

>>388661204
>the game that made a state go bankrupt
it's pretty good

>>388683957
Bamco was a mistake. They had to much involvement in Souls, and are more than likely to thank in Dark Souls' second half being rushed out. The more involvement they had, the shittier the game came out, which explains why DaS 2.

>>388683516
I've never played S and S co-op, but I bet it's comfy.

>>388667560
lore is the plot in these games

Is there a recommended order to tackle the four Lord Souls in DaS or does it no really matter?

>>388655276

Better Dragon Form than DS3. >>388655276

>>388673784
Me too, anon. Me too.

>>388672150
Sorcerers have to dump points into attunement, so it's only fair that melee builds also need something.
It was a great way to balance PVP, and should have been carried over to DaS3.

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>>388683274
>Dark Souls 3 worse than Dark Souls 2.

Bait Guaranteed (You)'s.
no matter how hard you try, it'll never be the case.

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Try and find one positive trait in this one.

>>388673607
>It's beautiful because it looks like shit

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>>388688402
Forgot pic.