How do you make Sonic successful without relying on nostalgia?

>>388595617
Every sequel relies on nostalgia. The word means nothing now thanks to idiots applying it to any sort of fondness for things in the past. Congrats.

You don't

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>>388595617
OC Maker + romance options

>>388595617
Remove tall/edgy angry sonic & his faggot voice

Reboot classic tiny sonic & give him a new voice

It's literally this simple.

>>388596191
How would classic Sonic appeal to kids more than the Sonic they already like?

>>388596308
By being a more appealing design and character in general. There's are many reasons as to why he was big in the early 90's and is a joke now, one important reason is how the character himself is presented.

>>388596191
Oooh so like how Sonic was during the Adventure era!

>>388596191
That would be using nostalgia though.

>>388596417
Most of the kids loved the Adventure era's tone which is why the OCs are usually in that style. Face it kids like edgy stuff, it is why shit like FNAF and Twilight sells. It is why kids constantly play COD despite it being shit.

Sonic used to be family friendly edgy stuff, which made him cool amongst the kids.

Remove Roger Craig Smith

God I hate listening to his voice. That Sonic Zombies thing pretty much nails how grating it is.

>>388596502
Using the character at all would coincidentally evoke nostalgia for anyone that grew up with the series, whether you grew up with the classics, with Adventure games, or with Unleashed. The point is to use the most appealing version of Sonic.

>>388596417
Except all the OCs made by kids glorify that shit.

>>388595617
Hire competent game developers.

>>388596640
Most kids aren't autsits, they're the minority. It takes a specific mindset and a specific age group to get that into Sonic. More kids liked Sonic in 1993 than kids did in 2000.

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>>388596191
>he fell for the "classic sonic was cute" meme

>>388595617
Start off by having an actual art style and direction again instead of shitty pre rendered bs.
Seriously, even your pic looks better than sonic now.

>>388595617

I thought the original levels in Mania were really solid, they could do a whole game with those. I think the thing is, now with CD/3K/Mania existing, the Sonic formula is near perfect, you can only reinvent the wheel so many times so just don't oversaturate the market with releases

Look at Mario, most big Mario games come out every few years at least, maybe more and despite many of them being similar its not too tired, at least, the main games aren't, because there's time in between

>>388596417
I don't think you know what kids like these days, Modern Sonic's design is reminiscent of so much stuff kids like such as Teen Titans Go, FNAF, and Splatoon. Fuck even the new DuckTales feels more like Modern Sonic than it does Mickey Mouse.

>>388596092
Post the source anon. Don't do this to us

>>388596819
And that group is large enough to keep buying Sonic games despite their faults, hell most kids don't give a shit about Sonic's faults because the presentation and characterization is so alluring.

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>>388595617
Physics-centric platforming with good acceleration, no rails, wordless story, good level design and bumpin tunes.

>>388596982
I'm a child psychologist, I know what I'm talking about.

>>388597146
Well you clearly don't know what kids like, otherwise you would realize why kids keep buying Sonic games.

>>388597146
Pfffff yeah right.

>>388596982
Holy fuck, I never realized that Splatoon kind of proves that what is cool in the 90s can still be cool today. Yeah, I think SEGA needs to embrace that 90s cheese the way Nintendo did, and not care that some autists online are going to call their audience autistic.

And like make the games fun and not buggy too, since they seem to have a problem with that.

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Sonic Team needs someone with an actual vision.

As it stands now, Sega just throws crap at the wall to see what sticks, and whatever DOES stick they have no idea why. Forces is just a bunch of concepts they think people want thrown into a blender with no rhyme or reason. It's a very superficial understanding of what their own fanbase likes.

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>>388595617
Pretty much Sonic Utopia but with a good camera, a big overworld to run around in and perform tricks, tight layered level design, varied lush environments, and without re-using old enemies, old locations, or anything like that. Also keep parkour from LW. Make a new cartoon of that with more than a shoestring budget and give it a good timeslot. Keep stories but don't have any dialogue (learn how to use sound effects properly you fucking hacks, SEGA) and don't let the cutscenes get overly long.

>>388596982
Things like Gravity Falls are more popular than any of those

>>388597460
Are you sure people don't like stories in games? I loved the Adventure plots.

Won't kids find it bothersome that the games have no voice acting despite the cartoon having voice acting?

>>388597561
But Star VS. might be more popular than it, which again uses an artstyle more similar to Modern Sonic.

>>388597562
I said to keep stories.

>>388597649
Having a cartoon without voice acting in the games is going to make the games look cheaply made to children.
Trust me on this, you are better off leaving voice acting in the games, there is a reason even Nintendo is starting to do it.

>>388597629
It isn't, it doesn't bring in nearly as many viewers.

>>388597930
That's retarded. I know you just like voice acting in Sonic games.

>>388598137
Name me a game with a cartoon series released in the last 10 years that doesn't have voice acting.

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>>388595617
>"Redesign" that's a compromise between Classic and Modern
>Characters still have voices but never speak (often anyway), instead only grunting or making similar noises
>Story and d e e p e s t lore but told through levels and other ignorable means so people who just want to play through the game with minimal/no interruptions can (think Kirby)
>Friends and other characters are still around but only a handful of them like Tails, Knuckles, Amy, and Metal Sonic are consistently relevant/playable
>Any other characters besides Sonic that would be playable would not be required to complete the games
>Keep the wacky world/level aesthetic from the Classics
>Most importantly, MAKE THE GAMES FUCKING GOOD

>>388597930
That's funny, I remember thinking the Archie comic and AtStH cartoon were "cheap" compared to the Genesis games when I was a kid.

>>388598315
I didn't say a tie-in cartoon wouldn't have dialogue, you dummy. I was talking about the hypothetical games.

>>388598359
Sounds terrible.

Even though 2d is pretty well polished out at this point, a few improvements such as differentiating foreground/background/level better. I'd still consider it already successful.
I'd say even though they have made some fun 3d sonic games, they haven't made a successful one in terms of design. First of all, they need to focus and not include werehogs, arcade shooting, and crappy 2d segments (ect.)
You could probably get away with having multiple characters and stories by having all the characters play like sonic but with different quirks, but they need to figure out what they want a Sonic 3d game to look like first. I'm not a huge fan of the boost gameplay since it's sloppy and feels like a glorified temple run but if they were to rework the basics of Sonic's movements then there might be something there.

>>388598315
There isn't one. Most shitty games have copious voice acting these days, because it's easy. Your point?

>>388597460
dude u retarded that shit would make sonic more antiquated than mario.

>>388597024
Akuno Toujou

>>388599654
You're antiquated.

>>388598554
Even the games to those cartoons have dialogue.
Fuck I don't even know of any popular kids games that DON'T have dialogue, I think children like to have dialogue in their games as it since it seems more complex and thus engaging to them.

>>388597460
SEGA shouldn't try being experimental when telling their stories, they should tell them the same goddamn way every FUCKING other game does it. With voice acting or if that sucks just use text boxes like every fucking game released in the last 20 years.

>>388600031
Being like every other fucking game is sure to make you a success.

>>388596191
>>388596656
He's grown on me through Sonic Boom.

>>388600148
Then shouldn't a silent protagonist do that? Not a character known for talking?

Keep making classic style games
It's not nostalgia when the old games are objectively better

>>388600326
So like a Sonic Advance successor?

>>388600274
"talking" is not one of Sonic's defining traits.

>>388595617
why where sonic 1 and adventure so popular?

they were cutting edge games on the forefront of technology

we haven't have a technically impressive sonic game since sonic adventure

>>388600408
But he has catchphrases associated with him, which couldn't happen if he didn't talk.

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>another thread where some assmad Adventurefag shits on anyone that proposes something not like Adventure

>>388600494
Well not like Sonic.

>>388600408
GOTTA GO FAST
WAY PAST COOL
YOU'RE TOO SLOW

>>388600454
Catchphrases used exclusively to mock how retarded and obnoxious he is when he talks, you dumb fuck.

>>388600625
Grow up you fucking autist it is no different than normies spouting "IT'S A ME MARIO!" or "SO LONG GAY BOWSER"

>>388600625
Yes because being an obnoxious smug little asshole isn't at all the persona of the quintessential 90's cool dude hero.

>>388600750
Of course a retard that likes voice acting in Sonic games would believe this.

>>388600773
Being obnoxious isn't. Having dialogue doesn't help define him either. He was perfectly defined when he was mute.

>>388600902
Then why did all the cartoons make him so obnoxious?

>>388600902
Yes they were
Check out Freakazoid, or The Mask, or The Tick

>>388601125
Sonic isn't any of those characters. Play Sonic CD.

>>388597438
Best post in the thread.

>>388601439
Yes the game where sonic will give you a game over if you wait to long and say "I'm out of here" because that's not annoying at all.

>>388596092
Fuck off, furries.

>>388601573
>ignoring the part where he says "C'MON! GOTTA GET GOING!" on repeat during his idle animation
>ignoring the his 999 random bits of dialogue that get triggered every time you collect 5 rings
>ignoring all the grunts, yells, and smarmy remarks he makes every time he takes damage
That game was pretty fucking bad with all that.

>>388595617
No voice acting
Use text boxes
Hire better programmers

>>388601956
Sonic is better with a voice.
Roger Craig Smith is the best.

>>388601943
What obscure copy do you have? I don't remember that in any games.

>>388602057
Nah Sonic Mania Sonic is better than Sonic Forces Sonic so far. Unless your one of those types who wants to self-insert as Sonic's best buddy, who Sonic shows his love and appreciation for through many dynamic lines of dialogue.

>>388602260
Do you not enjoy feeling appreciated in your game?

The way you go into detail makes me think you are projecting.

>>388602260
I bet if it was Amy or Rouge instead you idiots would be all over it.

>>388597438
This sums it up perfectly. The game's got like three fucking play-styles. They're obviously trying to bring back the Adventurebabies as well. The whole game is a checklist of things people liked about past games with little regard to how they all mesh together.

>>388602589
>implying classicfags don't hate furries
Nah those are your kind.

>>388602370
I just have eyes and ears, anyone can see what Sonic Team is going for here.

>>388602942
Sonic was going for the furry audience even back then.

>>388595617
Simply by sticking to a style and keep perfecting it.

>>388603125
You're thinking of Freedom Planet.

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>>388603313

>>388595617
Take a lesson from Mario 64 and make Sonic feel good to play as. hen build a world around him, get some ideas for some God tier platforming, and then make a story to tie the levels together. No more 2D, or this boost to win nonsense

>>388595617
make good games

Stop:
>rushing the game's dev time by months if not entire years
>handing the IP to untrustworthy 2nd party developers hoping for a cheap payout
>completely ignoring fan concerns and comments
>canning a mechanic, plot or character appearance that went over poorly due to the above issues
>bait-and-switching devs, making them gimp a game to work on Nintendo platforms to satisfy exclusivity deals
>making exclusivity deals as an independent developer with tons of IP value

Do:
>diversify development accross different hardware types to prevent the need of gimped games
>continue to work with fan developers, programmers, artists etc
>give the franchise to someone capable and creative after Iizuka leaves, not whoever has seniority (fucking Japan)
>continue earlier plot threads and series progression while incorporating new mechanics instead of 'rebooting' the franchise

It helps if you make the games fun first.

>b-but mania was fun!

True that might be but there's still more shitty sonic games than good ones. Generations and Mania have been the only good sonic games that came out this decade.

>>388604820
Sonic Unleashed
Sonic Riders 2
Sonic Colors
Sonic Rush

Just because you don't play a game doesn't mean its bad, tim.

>>388604948
All of those games were below average trash.

>>388595617
Good gameplay.

Oh hey, Mania did exactly that.

>b-but all the throwbacks and references!
Game's good in spite of all of that, not because of it.

>>388604678
Do
>let us play as tails again

>>388605114
>i have a hivemind and can't make any opinion for myself, so I'll just be a complete tool and just say what others say, btw arin was right about oot

>>388595617
Make it good, fun and even more memorable than classics.

>>388606120
I am sure it did, but I think if it used the modern Sonic designs it would not have done as well.

>>388606964
It helps that the classic design is also better. A Mickey Mouse wannabe is a more timeless design than some lanky Fred Durst wannabe.

Not so much better that it's anywhere near as important as the gameplay, though.

>>388595617
>Concept
Sonic was a product of the 90s, and was shaped by it. He is still a relic of that time in many ways. Rather than re-design him, it's better to find modern analogues to his appeal.
>Gameplay
Sonic was always kind of a game that felt like it was very inspired by skateboarding. Lots of ramps, jumps, and other stuff. Today's hip extreme sport is Parkour. Sonic should take inspiration from Parkour, but over the top and made more cartoonish. Less running in a straight line, and more jumping off of shit, doing flips, and running on walls. Maybe bring back things like rails from SA2 or pipes from the old 2D games as fancy set pieces to break things up. Sonic should handle like a mixture of Tony Hawk, Mirror's Edge, and Counterstrike Surf maps.
>Level design
No more "Go forward to the end of the level". Each level now is rather open-ended and lets you complete objectives in the order you choose, sometimes unlocking unacceptable parts of the level or new objectives for completing previous ones. The level design should kind of feel like DOOM 2016, where each stage requires backtracking, finding keys, and exploring, but are still self-contained and have a defined end-point. Sonic's speed should make backtracking easier than in other games, especially using set pieces that allow you to go around challenges you've already passed through by hitting a switch or using a key.
>Marketing and Character
Sonic's re-design in Sonic Adventure looked really cool, but he didn't look nearly as cool in game. Players are used to seeing this version of Sonic in the past, so making him stylized in that way in game shouldn't cause controversy, but will add some new artistic flair to a series that hasn't looked good ever since transitioning to 3D. Everything should be cel shaded for a look that's cartoony enough for kids, edgy enough for teenagers, and artistic enough for adults.

>>388604012
I'm not disagreeing with this idea. the issue here is that Sonic has always been about speed (call it a schtick if you want to), even though doing that in the 2D games can be more problematic than helpful. take away the idea of speedy platformer and all you get is just about every other mascot platformer out there.

about the only thing that can make a 3D sonic work (for me, anyway) is something open world like Sonic Utopia with a few changes; give him wall running and some level of parkour, limiting any time where he has to stop and focus on jumping on platforms/ledges/etc. running straight at a wall? give him the option to run up the wall if he has enough speed to do so at the press of a button or otherwise slam on to it . running high speed towards a waist high ledge or a pit with a series of platforms up ahead? allow him to hop on to them while holding a button without losing much speed (think ninja run from MGR). allow him to interact with various objects while in high speed to help him travel around.

it's likely to get old, but that's where I'd leave the developer to decide on how to make this more exciting. only other thing i'm having problems brainstorming is the battle mechanics; traditional homing just doesn't feel right, and manually aiming your attacks sounds like it'll be an issue.