Was he wrong though?

no he's right about everything including politics and positively shaming homosexuals and rape victims

>>388580873
Anon I don't know what you are talking about but this thread is about Dark Souls II.

>>388581105
fuck white peepoo

>>388580783
Nope. His points were pretty excellent.

Dark Souls II is a deeply flawed game still. But it baffles me that people are completely willing to ignore that so was Dark Souls, maybe even more so.

>>388580783
who?

check my 5

Communists are inherently wrong, anon. Just look at his No Man's Sky video.
>>388583005
wew

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>>388583005
>shit thread gets derailed immediately

Nice

>>388581360
>not "wypeepo"

He has about a 30% to 70% ratio of saying retarded shit to the pure gospel truth. It's 50/50 if you limit it to video games.

>>388580783
Of course he was. He was just assblasted about the video Matthew made.

>>388583005
/thread

I had never played 2 but got really excited by it after watching that video. Convinced me to buy the game

It's fucking garbage. I've tried to play it four times now and I've given up in anger every time so far. This is coming from someone who beat 1 and 3 without guides, magic, or summoning.

I want whatever the fuck he thinks he played

I think we all can agree that Dark Souls 2 had great base combat and mechanics even tying invincibility frames to a stat but faltered in terms of level, enemy, and boss design.

>>388580783
who?
>>388583005
nice 5 anon!

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>>388583448
>even tying invincibility frames to a stat
Hmm yeah that was fun but how about instead I have that from the beginning and don't have to sink 30 levels right off the bat into adaptability and vitality to counteract their stupid fuckery and instead get to put those souls towards the interesting stats that make my character fit my playstyle

>>388583448
>even tying invincibility frames to a stat
In the first 32 seconds the guy rolls away from a attack yet still gets hit.

>>388583695
DaS2 piles souls onto you so this really isn't as big of a problem and you whining cunts want to make it seem.

If you're shit and you need half a second of iframes, you pay the toll in levels. If you're not and you actually know how to time your rolls, there's no need to level ADP.

>>388583695
that's fucking stupid, games aren't meant to be fun. Now come on anon, this big pile of shit isn't going to devour itself ANOMNOMNONOM

>>388583927
>If you're shit and you need half a second of iframes, you pay the toll in levels. If you're not and you actually know how to time your rolls, there's no need to level ADP.
Why did I never once have an issue with rolling in 1, BB, or 3? Not even when I had just started playing 1. 2's rolling is fucking garbage, and although I'm sure it's possible to memorize the windows of the individual enemy attacks, their animation skills went down the fucking toilet, leaving every interaction a floaty, sloppy, vague mess.

>>388583927
>S-Shut Up I am good
>>388583695
In all suriousness if you need 30+ adp just to doge you have no sense in timing

>>388582869
>more flawed than dark souls 2

eksdee 3/10

>>388584509
1. I was using hyperbole
2. I was including the vit levels spent to counteract their stupid curse bullshit in that figure

>>388580783
yes
half his points boil down to DARK SOULS IS SHIT SO 2 IS ALLOWED TO BE SHIT AS WELL when the entire point of a sequel to polish things up

>>388584136
>I'm sure it's possible to memorize the windows of the individual enemy attacks
Why wouldn't you do this? How shit do you have to be that you just panic roll whenever an enemy leaves idle stance and get hit?

>>388584620
Stop dying or use an Effigy?

Most of the complaints from DaS2 seem to be from shitters that just didn't want to adapt to the game itself, which is how we ended up with DaS3's combat being such a dumbed down garbage fire.

>>388580783
I thought the game was okay.

There weren't any places in it that I hated as much as that gay fortress with all the traps and snake people.

>>388583448
>>388583695
>>388583927
On regards of Adaptability, I thought the idea was great honestly. Why should the player get full i-frames with no investment?, If you need stats to block or tank a hit, why nimble characters should get a free pass?

But the cool thing about Adaptability is that its also useful for the poise, so heavy characters still want a lot. It also plays very well with attunement, letting you decide what proportion of spells / poise you want to run.

It should have done more though, the stat would be more interesting if it affected bleed and poison damage the length of recovery animations.

It works a bit iffy due to how the game handles hitboxes. But then again, they are just as flawed as they were in DS. It just was easier to see here.

If hitboxes were to work like in Monster Hunter for example, the system would work just fine. The skill exists to raise i-frames in those games works just fine but its considered a crutch, just like it would here.

>>388584949
Honestly I don't get the hate for DS3 combat
I had a blast with it, I thought the speed was a welcome change. I was pretty much free to play it the same way I've played the other games, fast rolls and heavy fucking hits

He was correct about a lot of things but it doesn't change the fact that in the end almost all the levels and bosses are a snore and the world feels disconnected and nonsensical and less immersive compared to the other darksouls and Bloodborne. If they wanted it to be like demons souls they should have went all the way and had an archstone equivalent

>>388584590
Nigga, Dark Souls has flaws in nearly every aspect of the game's design. Its extremely janky, even more than Demon's Souls.

>>388585303
> Why should the player get full i-frames with no investment?
Because people didnt expect to be RPG elements in a action RPG

>>388585303
>If you need stats to block or tank a hit, why nimble characters should get a free pass?
So many reason, dude
To name a few
>blocking and tanking require no skill and are the go-to for those unfamiliar with the games. allowing them full blocking power from the start would encourage the players to stick to incredibly boring gameplay
>rolling (well) requires memorization of enemy attack patterns and attack types, as blindly panic-dodging rarely yields good results
>it makes early-game easier for experienced players who want to get to the most customizable side of the game as soon as possible

also
>why nimble characters should get a free pass?
I'll take "what is carryweight" for 200, Alex

>>388584651
But Dark Souls 2 only improvements over Dark Souls 1 are incredibly minor, how could someone come to this conclusion. Dark Souls 1 has better level design by leagues and miles (at least the first half does), wayyyy better bosses that don't feel like you're fighting normal enemies, better music, and better NPCs. Only thing 2 has is powerstancing, more variety I guess, and Emerald Herald being a better waifu then the firelink's firekeeper.

>inb4 but muh sekund halfe
The only truly shit areas are TotG and Lost/Izalith. I can think of several DaS2 levels that are just as bad if not worst, including Frigid Outskirts, Iron Keep, Shrine of Amana, Black Gulch, Earthen Peak, the Gutter, and so on.

>>388585934
You should really read posts before replying to them, anon

>>388585303
ADP affects more than just the roll. It raises Poise, increases the speed that your character will drink Estus/use items, and allows you to roll out of using items earlier. It also affects how quickly you raise and lower your shield.

>>388585335
>Honestly I don't get the hate for DS3 combat
It's shallow. You don't have to worry about stamina, almost every enemy gets stun-locked down, counter damage is broken in PvE because everything is constantly trying to attack, the parry windows are fucking huge and easy to pull off, Estus is instant, and the roll makes the entire game a huge joke. People like DaS3 because it's easy, doesn't punish being an idiot, and has strong presentation.

There's also the fact that the stat system has been streamlined to support quality builds far more than anything else, which also dumbed down the game.

>>388585701
>rolling (well) requires memorization of enemy attack patterns and attack types, as blindly panic-dodging rarely yields good results
Which is why ADP is good, because it punishes panic rolling and rewards timed rolls.

>it makes early-game easier for experienced players who want to get to the most customizable side of the game as soon as possible
ADP does this. People that know wtf they're doing don't need half a second of invincibility on their rolls when they can just time everything, allowing them more room to build how they want right from the start. A shitter on the other hand needs a stronger roll to do well.

>>388585661
I don't feel like the levels and bosses were as bad as they are made out to be. To start of, the bosses are miles better than Demon Souls'. Also when talking bosses people usually forget that Dark Souls had its fair share of terrible bosses.

Demon Souls is the game with the best levels overall (except for the swamp levels, those were pretty meh to trashy). Dark Souls on the other hand includes things such as Lost Izalith, Valley of Drakes, Lake of Ash and the great tree. The good levels are good and the interconnectivity is one of the game's strongest assets, but the design itself is inferior to Demon's.

But when it comes to DS2, the only truly underdesigned levels I can think of were Harvest Valley, Tomb of Saints and the Black Gulch. Aldia's Keep was cool but too short imho. Other than that the levels range from good to great and amazing for the DLC.

>>388585668
4/10

>>388586842
>Demon Souls is the game with the best levels overall
Not really. They're better than the majority of levels from DaS2 but have nothing on the first half of DaS or BB.

>>388583181
why poopy

>>388586842
Youre forgetting heides tower and huntsmans corpse, iron keep and the gutter. I always thought heides was so beautiful, i was so thoroughly disapointed by how absolutely shit it was, same with the gutter but for a different reason, because it was a cool very well designed level where you fight completely harmless enemies and have no chance of dying of anything but bordom

>>388583448
>making a stat that is mandatory to level up for every build ever
No, that's LITERALLY worse than Resistance

>>388585701
>blocking and tanking require no skill and are the go-to for those unfamiliar with the games. allowing them full blocking power from the start would encourage the players to stick to incredibly boring gameplay
Blocking is a valid strategic option regardless and requires stats. Also in DS2 blocking effectively requires good stamina management skills and cannot be relied upon forever, as DaS2's shields aren't as amazing as they were in DaS. Furthermore, its the game in the series that favors elemental damage the most. So some is bound to get through most of the time. This makes shield sellection beyon 100 phys resist important.

>rolling (well) requires memorization of enemy attack patterns and attack types, as blindly panic-dodging rarely yields good results
DaS3 says hi. But really, depends on the game and how the rolls exactly work. Some are bullshit, others are fair. Still, if rolling requires skill, doesn't giving full i-frames from the start undermine that?, Look at MH for comparison, you can roll through everything no problem, but its actually hard and requires a level of skill you develop until you don't even really need the extra i-frames.

>it makes early-game easier for experienced players who want to get to the most customizable side of the game as soon as possible
There's a variety of ways to deal with a situation for every character archetype. Having a true and proved way to cheese it all seems unecessary when you can still win easy if you know what you are doing. Plus, DaS2 actually has a ton of early customization options.

>I'll take "what is carryweight" for 200, Alex
Except nimble characters that depend on not getting hit never wear heavy armor because their main defense is not getting hit in the first place. This makes weight limitations completely irrelevant.

>>388581360
HAHAHAHA WHYPIPO LOL

>>388583448
Adding a huge delay to every action was aweful, increased stamina costs alone would have been better

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>>388583005

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>>388580783
>Complains about estus flask running out fast for someone who doesn't use a shield

I don't know you tell me

>>388580783
>play DS2 when it came out
>like it a bit more than DS1
>play DS3
>it becomes my favorite DS
>recently playing through DS2 Sin of the First Scholar
>notice how fucking bullshit they made the gameplay

Now its the only aspect of the game that really makes me hate it.
If you want a example, go check the arrows that enemy shoots your way. They literally change direction mid course to hit you.
Or how you get stunned over ANY attack.
Get hit by the weakest enemy = stun.
Which leaves you open to get gangraped by the absurd amount of enemies.
Also I noticed that bosses have infinite stamina bar and they get absurdly hostile when close to death. You wanna take a step back just to make sure you manage to finish the boss off? Too bad, here comes the boss to unrelently attack you when he is one hit away of dying.
And last but no least problem: your character animations are comically sluggish.

Anyway, its just some bullshit gameplay choices that actually makes me rage about DS2.

>>388588451
Here is the problem with your "argument"
>rely on blocking for everything
>die to attacks that numerically cannot be blocked later in the game, cannot ever go past maybe NG++ or +++
>cannot use dodging as a backup as ADP isn't leveled, so there is no possible way to avoid damage 100% of the time

>rely on dodging
>must level one stat to 20+ before you can make progress without chugging healing constantly and tanking things or playing absurdly safe at all times; basically fun is locked until you dump 20 levels into a single stat, sure hope you like using starting weapons only until midgame!
>forced to take damage constantly for the entirety of early game; causes early game to be a boring slog

Meanwhile on the other hand, you can have both blocking and dodging be viable from the start and require stats later on (END and VIT respectively).

>>388587639
Have you actually played the game?, I mean Dark Souls, because I don't think you quite realize what you are saying.

Valley of Drakes, Blightown, the sewers, there were plenty of or bland levels in the first half of DaS. Higher Undead Burg is also pretty meh and so are other levels. Also it speaks miles about the level design if you will not defend the second half of the game at all. A perfect 10 and a 0 still make a 5 and DaS's first half isn't a perfect 10 at all.

On the other hand except for the bland swamps, there were no noticeable quality drops in Demon's and they were actually more complex than in DaS for the most part.

BB I haven't played. I don't give opinions on games I don't have experience with.

>>388583695
Sure as fuck sounds to me like your character's playstyle involves rolling. So you should probably invest in the rolling stat.

>>388587639
Dark souls is only really impressive up through Sens Fortress. Anal Londo is alright and everything after it is "ah fuck it well finish it later"

>>388580783
sjw cuck trying to remain relevant by being a contratarian. no shit ds2 is alright after years of patches. The point of the hate was that the game was rushed shit and didnt work day1.

>>388582976
some lefty faggot that wasnt getting enough patreon money for this feminism patreon videos so he tried to be a /v/ contranarian and debate year old videos that were about ds2 while the game he is actually reviewing is d2:sotfs

>>388589237
Yes well literally every character's playstyle involves rolling so your argument is shit.

>>388589271
Can you express your ideas without resorting to buzzwords and name calling?

>>388580783
some decent points but it eventually turns from a defense to him attempting to justify every decision the game ever made

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>Listening to a numale SJW

>>388589271
Actually patches made DS2 worse. The game would have been better off if they'd stopped patching anything but bugs shortly after release and just added the DLC content (and skipped the poison DLC)

>>388585303
>Why should the player get full i-frames with no investment?

because stamina is suppose to be the secondary resource you manage, not invisible formulas a player can never figureout without datamining the game.

it was counter intuitive and contrary to how things worked in the previous title.

>>388589496
That hairline makes me want to donate to charity

>>388589398
No. Many just hold L1 and hide behind a shield and their stamina stat. Others just stay back and spam ranged damage.

>>388589634
Too bad you literally cannot block every attack in any souls game.

>>388589405
>The point of the hate was that the game was rushed shit and didnt work day1.

can you shut the fuck up and read instead of being a triggered little snowflake?

>>388589496
Other than his Fallout 3 and Bloodborne videos (easy material really) he's basically Dobson 2 with how contrarian and shit his opinions are.

>>388588228
>Heides tower
Not the best level in the game, but considering its one of the first 2 levels its fine being relatively simple. Plus, its pretty gorgeous. The only issue I have with it is enemy variety and the fact the level is too short. They really should have let you get atop the tower of flame.

>Iron keep
What are you on about?, Iton keep was pretty damn good. Is this about the volcano on top of a windmill thing?

>the gutter
The gutter is actually a pretty good level, better than Blightown at least. Still, yeah, terrible enemy variety. But enemy selection and placement is different from level design.

They should have merged Tomb of Saints with the Gutter to make it larger and more varied. The Black gulch could have also been better as a swamp level at the bottom.

>>388589634
Except you literally cannot rely on those for the whole game and you literally cant dodge attacks without 30 points in ADP. So literally a 30 stat dump for EVERY character in the fucking game or you're objectively gimped.

>>388589113
>>die to attacks that numerically cannot be blocked later in the game, cannot ever go past maybe NG++ or +++
By that time you should have a Greatshield like Havel's, Gyrm's, Mirror Knight, etc. and your mitigation is high enough to take blocked damage that bleeds through pretty easily. The point you're trying to make here just makes it evident that you don't know what you're talking about.

>>must level one stat to 20+ before you can make progress without chugging healing constantly and tanking things or playing absurdly safe at all times; basically fun is locked until you dump 20 levels into a single stat, sure hope you like using starting weapons only until midgame!
This is where your argument completely falls apart. I went through DaS2 twice as a bandit with no ADP as my first character and did fine, only using a shield at the very start of the game. If you actually learn to time your rolls, ADP is a wasted stat. It exists only for people that panic roll or don't bother timing rolls. You're blaming the game for your own shortcomings, which is typical of most DaS complaints really. Git gud or stop being a bitch.

He made a lot of good points, but at times it's extremely obvious he's being contrarian just for the sake of it. I think he even says he's being contrarian or playing devil's advocate for at least one of his points.
>DS1's healing system is bad because it's frustrating to get killed while healing
>DS2's healing system is good because the slower healing over time makes it far more likely you'll get killed while healing, meaning you'll learn to heal when it's safe

>>388580783
DS2 is the best game in the series. Dark souls 1 (or demon souls if you want to be a pretentious bitch) forced players to adapt to a new level of difficulty in games. Dark souls 2 brought it to another level, and while it wasn't really "harder" it was different, and instead of adapting to a new game DS1 babies just cried that it was shit and went back to DS1.
literally every single major complaint about dark souls 2 is either A. a complete non-issue (m-m-muh b team) B. something that dark souls 1 also did (dudes in armor boss fights, % wise dark souls 2 has like, 10% more dudes in armor as fights)

>>388590145
>By that time you should have a Greatshield like Havel's, Gyrm's, Mirror Knight, etc. and your mitigation is high enough to take blocked damage that bleeds through pretty easily.
Even with maximum stamina you cannot numerically block every single attack in the entire game with enough stamina for counterattacks. On higher NG+ levels your guard will instantly break even with +5/10 greatshields.
>The point you're trying to make here just makes it evident that you don't know what you're talking about.
No, it's more like you don't know what you're talking about and never actually did a blocking-only run without chugging constantly.
> I went through DaS2 twice as a bandit with no ADP as my first character and did fine, only using a shield at the very start of the game.
Now do it without healing constantly and playing extremely safe and slow.
> If you actually learn to time your rolls, ADP is a wasted stat.
Wrong. There are attacks that are numerically impossible to dodge without ADP due to how the game handles hitboxes to compensate for lag in online play (which applies even when you're playing offline due to shitty programming). Granted this is also a problem in DS3 and BB but those games mitigate it by not forcing you to level up 20 times to dodge properly.

>>388590020
>iron keep
>two types of enemy
>alonne knights pasted around the map in stupid numbers
>turtle knights reused from the FoFG
>horrible bland repeating stone textures everywhere
>boxy ps1 game style architecture
>looks like something from a mario game, layout makes no sense at all especially if we assume that half of it is under the lava
>end boss is just ceaseless discharge with a far more generic Balrog design
>skybox has no relation at all to the rest of the game

the fact that you reach this place from the top of a windmill is the least of its problems.

>>388590280
>game with infinite healing items
>hard
lol

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>matthew's biggest success on YouTube and the video that compiles all the problems with DaS2 in an objective way
>sperg tries to refute it by basically saying "THOSE WEREN'T PROBLEMS IN MY OPINION SO YOU ARE WRONG"

It's hilarious to watch the two videos in sequence and realize how much of Matthew's criticism gets skipped over. Also, hbomber tries too hard to be funny and it isn't even in a sort of goofy extravagant way like Mr. Clemps, he genuinely thinks his witty and that detracts from his videos because he's too busy trying to hilarious and failing

>>388590443
no that anon but
>Now do it without healing constantly and playing extremely safe and slow.
like dude just get better at dodging without adaptability crutch, if you can't do that recognize that the punishment is having to dump points into ADP

Immersion took a back seat to gameplay. Get fucked pvpfags

>>388590020
Fuck you retard heides is unacceptably aweful, you cant even give a reason for why its supposedly good, and the gutter isnt lacking veriety its lacking enemies in general, its a mid to late game level, there should be at least a slight chance of dying. Iron keep is just a disapointment because i expected a sweet lava castle not random hanging platforms that have no reason to exist

>>388590745
Sorry, but you're numerically wrong. It is factually impossible to dodge every attack in DS2 without ADP or ATT, in fact, it is numerically impossible to dodge most lingering attacks without leveling those stats. At base agility you have 5, fucking FIVE, iframes. Most attacks in the game last more than 5 fucking frames. Even basic hollows have attacks that last more than five fucking frames. Anyone who claims they rolled through everything with base agility is objectively a liar. It has nothing to do with difficulty, since DS2 is the second easiest game in the series due to you having infinite HP.

>>388589178
>Valley of Drakes, Blightown, the sewers, there were plenty of or bland levels in the first half of DaS
Blightown and the depths definitely aren't bad by any means. BT especially (bar poison swamp) has some of the best verticality in the series. Undead burg and the painted world are best levels From has ever made. DeS worst level is stonefang and it's a complete slog to get through and all the levels don't have any of the cleverness of the future entries.

>>388589113
Exactly how many times do you need to replay a Souls title?, sure they merit a replay (specially DaS 1 & 2), but 2?, 3?, even more?, How many times can you complete a game before you get bored.

Still, blocking may be unviable in high cycle playthroughs, but it should be considered either in the context of your first couple playthroughs in pvp. Very little people will go for NG+++ after all.

Also, I dodge everything constantly and I've got 9 adaptability. The game handles roll hitboxes like shit and sometimes I do get hit, but that's not an issue of the stat system at all. Either way, its perfectly to use dodges as a complement to blocks even if your rolls aren't the best in the world.

Also having to invest on adaptability early game WOULD be an issue if leveling up wasn't so damn easy when compared to DaS and Demon's. I mean, its quite easy to hit 20 points in any given stat you may need. Still, I agree that Adaptability should have offensive applications. Like increasing Poison and Bleed damage

>>388580783
hbomber? the guy who pretends to be Fitzthistlewits?

>>388590443
>Even with maximum stamina you cannot numerically block every single attack in the entire game with enough stamina for counterattacks.
Guess that's why Green Blossoms and Chloranthy Rings exist, and why blocking shit you don't need to is probably a good idea.

>No, it's more like you don't know what you're talking about and never actually did a blocking-only run without chugging constantly.
What? Specifically what attacks break Havel's outside of slow shit you can just strafe around? My last playthrough before playing DaS3 was a shield run and I did fine up to NG++ Mytha.

It's like you're being purposefully obtuse and stupid to try and create a narrative that doesn't make sense.

>Now do it without healing constantly and playing extremely safe and slow.
Why would I play safe and slow for no reason? Why wouldn't I heal? What in the fuck are you even talking about with this?

>There are attacks that are numerically impossible to dodge without ADP due to how the game handles hitboxes to compensate for lag in online play
The only attack I was never able to dodge, outside of laggy PvP invasions, was rolling through the Chariot's wheels, because his scythe will hit due to the lack of iframes with 3 ADP on the Bandit. Everything else in the game that can be rolled through without taking damage can be done without leveling ADP.

Your argument is that you're trash, so it's the game's fault you have to blow thousands of souls on a stat.

>>388590885
>numerically wrong.
Stop saying this. It makes you sound like a fucking idiot because you're massively wrong. Most attack in DaS2 don't even need to be blocked or rolled.

>Anyone who claims they rolled through everything with base agility is objectively a liar.
Just because someone is actually competent at the game doesn't make them a liar.

>>388589548
What on earth do i-frames have to do with stamina?

>>388580783
The handful of points he's got a good argument for are drowned out by his obsession with proving Matthew wrong and being a contrarian, following up arguing the dudes in armor are the best souls bosses with shit like "the level design is totally not the worst in the series and if you disagree you're just shit, fuck you Matthew" just weakens his argument. It's weird how hard he try's to be /ourguy/ depsite being a far left sjw

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>>388589496
fucking gross

>>388590678
Again, enemy and boss design have nothing to do with level design.

Also, I liked the architecture. But I can see why others wouldn't.

I did not pay attention to the sky box, so no comment.

The level has problems, but its nothing that makes it unsalvageable trash like Lost Izalith.

>>388591189
>Still, blocking may be unviable in high cycle playthroughs
Blocking is unviable in all playthroughs without playing extremely safe and constantly using healing items.
>Also, I dodge everything constantly and I've got 9 adaptability.
This is factually impossible unless your attunement is extremely high.
>The game handles roll hitboxes like shit and sometimes I do get hit, but that's not an issue of the stat system at all.
Objectively, it is an issue of the stat system.
>Also having to invest on adaptability early game WOULD be an issue if leveling up wasn't so damn easy when compared to DaS and Demon's.
You would have a point if DS2 wasn't the game with the highest average stat requirement for weapons in the entire series. Keep in mind that if you invest in ADP as say, a Deprived right off the bat, you can count the number of weapons you can wield one-handed with your other hand.
> I agree that Adaptability should have offensive applications.
Adaptability shouldn't exist. VIT as its own stat already controls rolling effectiveness due to affecting equipment load. With adaptability becoming the main stat to determine rolling efficacy, VIT becomes a near-useless stat for most characters.

>>388591249
>Guess that's why Green Blossoms and Chloranthy Rings exist, and why blocking shit you don't need to is probably a good idea.
Even with Green Blossoms and the Chloranthy Ring +2 you will still not have enough stamina to do a block-only run. It seems like you never actually tried doing one to me. Not to mention stopping constantly to chug Green Blossoms on top of the extra healing items you have to stop and chug to make up for bleedthrough slows the game down and makes it less fun.
>Why wouldn't I heal?
If an action-based game is not completable without healing, it's a shit game.
>The only attack I was never able to dodge, outside of laggy PvP invasions, was rolling through the Chariot's wheels, because his scythe will hit due to the lack of iframes with 3 ADP on the Bandit.
This is false. Five iframes is objectively too little.
>>388591331
Stamina already controls rolling. It's the resource that determines how effective rolling is. DS2 had already solved the overpowered rolling problem by making rolls consume more stamina and halt stamina regen for a longer period. Throwing in a stat specifically for rolling is just shit design that makes the game a slog if you do not level that stat, unless you like boring, slow, safe gameplay only 100% of the time.

>>388591575
You don't sit like some uncivilized mongrel, right /v/?

All video games should adapt AI to the level that there are no patterns for players to recognize, but have limitations on input speed even of the CPU so that faster reflexs are not be all end all. With this all games can reach a pinnacle wherein the games are like you fighting an actual living extremely skilled player.

>>388588398
>all stats are optional to level up
>What The Fuck Whys Is The Game Forcing Me To Level Up This Stat
I will never understand the special autism that Dark Souls managed to create

>>388591009
>undead burg Is the best level
Ahahaha Sweet jesus its litterally a short linier level with one small side area with boring and easy starter mobs, all it has is some good enemy placement, how legitimately mentally ill do you have to be to think its as good or better than stuff like all of lautria, central yharnam, reaserch hall, hunters nightmare, ect. Even within darksouls 1 blight town, sens, even the archives are more interesting. Hell, forest of fallen giants was better

>>388591987
The problem is that if you have a stat that everyone has to level up on every character every time no matter what unless they hate fun, then you have a shitty stat that shouldn't exist.

>>388591991
It's about its context in the game, you fucking moron. Undead Burg is the true tutorial level for the subtleties of the mechanics. It's only flaw is how unfun it is when you pass through it in the opposite direction later in the game

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>>388589702
LIES

>>388580783
I don't agree with his points or politics, but he makes good quality videos.

>>388592182
>30 second duration
I mean, you're not making a good argument for blocking being viable without playing extremely slow and safe.

>>388590847
>Fuck you retard heides is unacceptably aweful, you cant even give a reason for why its supposedly good
Can you give me a reason as to why its so very aweful?, also I did say it was pretty. A level being visually pleasing is an important part of the design, not everything mind you.

>the gutter isnt lacking veriety its lacking enemies in general
Still a placement / variety problem, not a design one.

>Iron keep is just a disapointment because i expected a sweet lava castle not random hanging platforms that have no reason to exist
Would you have rather taken a dip?, but seriously, of course there were platforms, how could there not be?

>>388591673
>Again, enemy and boss design have nothing to do with level design.
Not true. The shrine of Amana would be tolerable if it wasn't full of homing spellcasters, but it is, so all that nice atmosphere is totally wasted.
Enemy placement and what those enemies are is a gigantic part of designing a level, it's not an afterthought.

>>388580783
I have no idea why /v/ bitches so much about it tbqh

>>388591991
Bait

>>388591682
>Blocking is unviable in all playthroughs without playing extremely safe and constantly using healing items.
Get a good shield? How fucking safe do you need to play? Seriously, you sound like you're complete trash.

>This is factually impossible unless your attunement is extremely high.
No it isn't. Point out which attacks, specifically, that can't be dodged with over 1/4th of a second worth of iframes. Point them the fuck out, because if any exist, it's a hand full at most.

>You would have a point if DS2 wasn't the game with the highest average stat requirement for weapons in the entire series.
Probably because it has the most late game and NG+ weapons of any entry in the series, not because weapons magically require huge investments.

There's also the fact that, on average, you get three times the number of souls from enemies and bosses.

>VIT as its own stat already controls rolling effectiveness due to affecting equipment load.
The difference between a fat roll and a fast roll is how long the roll animation lasts. The actual iframes are almost the same, with only about 2-4, depending on the game, being removed at the very end of the roll. Meaning that as long as you don't roll early like a shitter, you're fine.

>>388591830
>Even with Green Blossoms and the Chloranthy Ring +2 you will still not have enough stamina to do a block-only run.
Why would you only block? Why would you never roll, ever? You may as well do a run where you don't sprint.

>Not to mention stopping constantly to chug Green Blossoms on top of the extra healing items you have to stop and chug to make up for bleedthrough slows the game down and makes it less fun.
I'm convinced you're retarded and you never switched up your shields based on what you were fighting.

>This is false. Five iframes is objectively too little.
If you're shit at timing rolls? You're right, it is too little. If you're not shit at timing rolls, it's fine.

>>388590020
>But enemy selection and placement is different from level design
If a level has shit enemy placement it's going to detract from the level.

>>388592543
>Get a good shield?
It is numerically impossible to block every single attack in the game without constantly retreating and playing defensively to let your stamina recharge every time the boss attacks.
>1/4th of a second worth of iframes
You are a retard. Since you just pointed out that you did not do any research about this topic, this argument is over. Nice to know ADP defending shitters are faggots who defend the mechanic simply because it's bad and they want to be contrarian.

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>>388580783
Not having this is already horrible

>>388584949
>Most of the complaints from DaS2 seem to be from shitters that just didn't want to adapt to the game itself

24 points into adp is the minimum for a roll to be similar to how it was to DS1, that is about 20 levels dumped into a stat that besides that will only improve, meaningfully, your speed of use of consumables.

Why should I want this kind of game design if the previous game already had roll invincibility feel good? Why should I force myself to like this? I don't, I never will.

Curse hollows the player, I detest this mechanic, I alsodetested curse in DS1, but it at the very least was a RARE thing. There were only 3 places in the whole game you could die of curse: Seath, Depths and TGH. Curse is everywhere in DS2, petrification is almost unavoidable in one of the paths to a certain bosses... and you want me to adapt to shit design? Not happening. DS2 will always be a game full of shit gameplay designs, with only a few quality of life briliant ideas.

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I don't know why people shit on his politics videos - they're pretty funny and well made and he's good at pointing all the stupid shit that /pol and other neo-reactionaries harp on all the fucking time, as well as how hypocritical and intellectually shallow they are (looking at you, Carl)

OT - the video is good. I think he brings up good points, although I don't agree with everything. It's a nice counter-balance to Matt's video.

>>388590885
what if you used the roll to avoid attacks with like, positioning, and not just trying to roll through them?

>watching Hcontrarianguy

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>>388593401
how original

>>388593571
Did you just time travel from 2015? Don't you know the alt-right are literal nazis now?

>>388593229
that would work if the hitboxes weren't shit and you didn't teleport into grabs

>>388593229
I've been trying to tell people this for quite a while
You dodge attacks by moving AWAY from the pointy/blunt object NOT TOWARD it
But advanced tatics such as "move a couple paces to the side or backpeddle" is too taxing for most people's heads

>>388591682
>Blocking is unviable in all playthroughs without playing extremely safe and constantly using healing items.
I really didn't. I did play it somewhat safe, because light armor and 20 Vit, but the best defense is a good offense mate. I only blocked when I needed to.

>This is factually impossible unless your attunement is extremely high.
26 attunement. 32 as of now in the post game. If you think it can't be done with those stats, well, I don't know what else to tell you.

>Objectively, it is an issue of the stat system.
It really is not, you wouldn't even need more than 5 i-frames if the hitboxes didn't even linger before being updated, you'd only need the barest minimum for the fraction of a second you were actually in contact with the attack hitbox.

Seriously, we don't even need extra i-frames in MH because the hitboxes don't remain static when you roll just because.

>You would have a point if DS2 wasn't the game with the highest average stat requirement for weapons in the entire series.
You think I started DaS2 with the Sacred Chime Hammer and never used anything else?, Yes, some stat requirements can be high, but there's still plenty of options for the early and mid game. Even then, more stat points really alleviate weapon requirements, and I was using the Skeleton Lords halberd, which had quite a lot of requirements.

>VIT as its own stat already controls rolling effectiveness due to affecting equipment load.
No, it really doesn't. People that plan to roll through everything don't need heavy armor, because they don't plan on getting hit. They don't even need HP because, again, they don't plan on getting hit. In fact, being able to mostly disregard stats like Vit to focus on having a bullshit high damage output was pretty OP in the first game.

Sure, vit is useless for nimbles in DaS2 for the same reason it was in DaS, because why invest on it if you won't get hit?

>>388583448
The biggest problem with that is that animation and frames are now inconsistent as fuck, If you had an unique animation for EVERY amount of I-frames you had to appropriately correspond my stats with what i am fucking seeing, now THAT would be fine.

>>388593804
You've been misleading people.
If an enemy swings his big pointy/blunt object at you, you should roll towards it (ie: under it). If you roll away from it it'll just catch you as your roll ends.

>>388593053
You get 20 levels worth of souls so quickly in DaS2 it's really a moot point. If you need ADP that high, then go kill Old Knights for twenty minutes or kill the Pursuer, a boss that requires virtually no rolling.

>Curse hollows the player, I detest this mechanic, I alsodetested curse in DS1, but it at the very least was a RARE thing.
Stack Curse resist? Stop being shit?

>petrification is almost unavoidable in one of the paths to a certain bosses.
Who are you trying to fool here? It sure as hell isn't me, or anyone else that's played DaS2.

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>>388593571
Am I okay guys

>>388591830
>Even with Green Blossoms and the Chloranthy Ring +2 you will still not have enough stamina to do a block-only run. It seems like you never actually tried doing one to me.
Why would you ever do that?, unless we are talking greatshields, I can't fathom any reason other than a severe adiction to pain.

You are given options. You use them as you see fit, not disregard one in favor of the other like an autist.

>>388594174
I'm talking about litteraly walking away from the enemy's range so there no chance of them hitting you

>spends 1 hour 30 minutes talking about Fallout 3
>40 minutes of his argument is "lol there's a mod that removes that! even the community hates it"

>>388592279
Come the fuck on, yeah, priestess were cunts, but if you can't deal with them its your own damn fault. Those projectiles are stupid easy to dodge and barely do any significant damage. Desert Sorceress were far more dangerous.

Either way, I get what you say, but I'm considering the level's architecture and visual design alone. Because you can fix enemy placement. In fact, you can have great placement and variety and still have your level be an absolute bore.

Also the Archdragon priests were more of a pain to me because they were so agressive, strong and liked attacking in numbers.

>>388593229
That would work if the game moved your hitbox with your character during the roll, but it doesn't move it until the roll completes. Therefore, if you're in range of an attack during your roll's regular frames, you take damage. The only option to avoid attacks with low ADP is to be out of the attack's range before it goes off, which isn't viable in many circumstances and when it is leads to a slow, boring playstyle where you're rarely given opportunities to attack back.
>>388594062
>26 attunement. 32 as of now in the post game.
This argument is about not leveling adaptability, not leveling it to the optimal level.

>>388580783
This guy is just long and rambling. A little conciseness please.

>>388594446
Except in DS2 every single option requires a stat investment, so you only ever have one open to you, unless you invest all your points in defensive stats, in which case your weapon selection is extremely limited and your damage is extremely low.

>>388592672
Yes, but its not an issue of the level itself. Just compare levels in vanilla DaS2 and Scholar. Better placement and variety make a difference but its still the same levels.

>>388595226
>What is raw infusion.
Just shut the fuck up already.

>>388595561
Raw infusion is a great way to deal shit damage.

>>388595162
>This argument is about not leveling adaptability, not leveling it to the optimal level.
Well, I pretty much didn't. I mean, I started with 8 and I'm at 9 so...

I'm still getting it to 24 though. For the poise, since I'm using a heavy, slowish weapon and I'm at a point that its the investment that will yield the most returns.

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>>388593053
holy shit you're a loser if you get trouble from fucking petrification and curse in DS2. I have never ever had a problem with these because I equip the appropriate consumables when entering a new zone. is that too complicated for you?
>m-muh rolling
rolling was totally different in Dark Souls compared to Demon's Souls. A shitter like you who started with the wrong game might think DS1 controls were the defining controls of the series, but the fact is people who like this series know everything gets tweaked every time. It took maybe a couple hours getting used to the new rolling only because i had just finished replaying DS1 on PC prior to playing DS2.

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>tfw you remember that DS2 exists
>tfw you remember about its fanbase

>>388595598
It's a solution to your self imposed problem that doesn't even exist to begin with, so the answer makes about as much sense are your retarded argument.

>>388583695
Are you retarded? It's like 10 levels and you don't even need it to complete the game, get gut, scrub.
(you)

>>388595598
>he didn't use the raw watcher sword +5, L2 buff it and wreck people
consider expanding your horizons man

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Defend this.

>>388595901
Contrarians exist in every fanbase anon

DS1 bored me to death after Anor Londo, it's a shit game. DS3 was too easy but still better than DS1. Demon's Souls had an awesome story, liked it better than both DS1 and DS3. DS2 had the best online play and made me play it the most, some bosses get really hard on NG+. Bloodborne is the best.

Here you go:

BB > DaS 2 > DeS >DaS 3 > DaS 1

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>>388597140

>>388595226
>Except in DS2 every single option requires a stat investment, so you only ever have one open to you.
Except not really. I mean, if you make a mage and want to block then you'll need some strength, but that's still not a bad idea if you want to use anything other than spells. And if you don't, your attunement would be high enough you should be able to roll no problem. I mean, if you block you still need to roll at least some, but you can go through the game entirely rolling no problem.

>unless you invest all your points in defensive stats, in which case your weapon selection is extremely limited and your damage is extremely low.
Hmmm... the only stats I'd call defensive would be Vigor and Adaptability. Blocking really doesn't detract from your offensive capabilities because it mostly requires strength.

If you want to block and roll (with no magic whatsoever) you'll end up with 24-30 adaptability, 40 strength. Doesn't seem to me like your weapon selection would be very limited or your damage low that way. You could even invest into dexterity and make a quality build with ample selection..

If anything, arguing that rolling is better because its more reliable and opens up your selection is an excellent argument ad to why Adaptability ought to exist. Do you know how ridiculous your damage can get when you can afford to disregard most other stats because your dodge is just THAT good?, it completely trivialized playing Dark Souls if you knew what you were doing. The challenge just went down the drain.

All Adaptability does is keep the damage of those sorts of characters at a reasonable level during the early game. You can still build them at midgame, mind you.

>>388597229
>He never played past the Lordvessel in Dark Souls
Don't blame you.

>>388597287
Yes, the entire point was that adaptability is just a shitty early game stat dump that makes the early game a slog. Thank you for agreeing.

>>388597140
DS2's online play was shit with its Blizzard balancing.

>>388597229
Nice meme you autist.

>>388597309
I did.

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Was he right?

>>388595343
the giant knights in heide's tower happen to be one of the shittiest enemies in the game (quite an accomplishment considering how shitty the game is) makes the area much worse than it actually is, because it's basically a barren stretch of bricks with a single fork on top of some water

who would have thought designing an enemy with a single attack string that lasts for years and making it uninterruptible so you just have to sit there and watch it was a fucking terrible idea and mediocre design?

>>388597140
DS2 bored me to death from the start, it's a shit game.

You really need a tier list to represent the games to express that the ordering for the good games doesn't matter insomuch as the failures being put in their place.

good tier
Dark Souls 1
Demon's Souls
Bloodborne

not good tier
Dark Souls 3

shit tier
Dark Souls 2

>>388591830
>Stamina already controls rolling
Stamina controls EVERYTHING you cuck. Every single aspect of the gameplay is improved upon by stat allocation.

Rolling I-Frames being tied to a stat is perfectly reasonable. Your only argument against it is "Well it wasn't like that in Des and Das."

>>388597987
>Rolling I-Frames being tied to a stat is perfectly reasonable
It isn't for the countless reasons already listed. It's like saying shield efficacy should be tied to its own stat independent of stamina and strength, or that your estus healing efficacy should be tied to a stat.
>Your only argument against it is "Well it wasn't like that in Des and Das"
Wrong.

>>388597369
Your fault for playing the broken character archetype.

I got through the game with no Adaptability, its your problem if your build + lack of skill demands it, buddy. At least you got to experience what normal progression is like for about two hours, which is pretty much the time you need to farm the souls you need to have an acceptable roll.

Honestly, I cannot comprehend for the life of me why you would complain so much about the early game being "a slog" just because you have to invest like 10 points in adaptability (if I got through the game on 26 attunement, you van do it with less adaptability) when you are given teleportation right of the bat and leveling is easier than in any other souls game.

If DaS2 was a slog, DaS1 must have been completely unbearable for you.

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>>388597936
>Dark Souls 1
>Good tier
Hmm....

>>388598105
Estus efficiency is tied to a tertiary mechanic, the burnt ash. It doesn't need a stat.

Shields also have stability, which is its own mechanic, it doesn't need a stat.

Rolling is a mechanic, and the I-Frames are a stat. There is nothing inherently wrong for them being altered by your stats. Your bringing up shields and estus are explainable, and even if they weren't, it's unrelated to my argument.

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>>388597987
>Rolling I-Frames being tied to a stat is perfectly reasonable

iframes being tied to a stat is completely unreasonable

you will never get comfortable with frame timings on a standard playthrough when
the number of frames you have to work with is constantly changing, which is why a progressive increase instead of breakpoints is plain poor design

>>388597712
Its not so bad. The guys go down relatively quick and there's at least one variant. It's over pretty quick regardless, but yeah, it needed some variety.

Still, this again is a problem of enemy placement and variety, not the level's architecture.

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>>388597309
I like how this meme has progressed from "Lost Izalith and the Bed of Chaos are bad" to "Dark Souls is pure shit post Lordvessel".

>>388598294
>post shitty meme boss
>this is supposed invalidate the rest of the game

>>388598294
Woah no other game in the series has any bad bosses.

>>388598294
>One bad boss ruins the whole game
I'd call this a meme, but Bed of Chaos really was a dumpsterfire, and the centipede demon and copy+paste stray demon clone, Izalith sucked.

>>388598392
If you ask me, in a universe of the chosen undeads being really powerful, bolstered with souls, using boulders are literal armor, the concept of rolling is fucking dumb, and being invincible to a blade clipping through your brain due to I-Frames is dumb anyway. My preferred style in the souls games is tankmode + shield. I find the concept of rolling to be inherently retarded. With how broken it was with the rings in DaS3 literally embarrassed me.

>>388598528
>If you ask me
>being invincible to a blade clipping through your brain due to I-Frames is dumb anyway

Which is why no one should ask you how to design a game that's actually fun to play.

>>388598490
>Tomb of the Giants
>Duke's Archives
>Crystal Cave
>Lost Izalith
>Demon Ruins
These areas are all garbage compared to the amazing interconnected world of everything from when you first arrive to Firelink and ascend Sen's Fortress.

>Firelink to Sen
10/10
>Anor Londo
7/10
>Everything after Ornstein and Smough
5/10

>>388580783
I can't respond to the totality of the video. Been some time since I watched it. However, I distinctly remember him praising the layout of the areas as free-associative. This would hold water for me if the structuring could be regarded as intentional, but with examples like the Lost Bastille (the cells clipping through the cliffs), it's hard for me to not think of the layout as slapdash.

>>388598294
Every time someone says something like ''dark souls is perfect'' lost izalith comes to my mind

>>388598321
>Estus efficiency is tied to a tertiary mechanic, the burnt ash. It doesn't need a stat.
Exactly, which is why tying it to a stat would be stupid when it's not only already tied to something, but also a basic game mechanic (just like rolling).
>shields have stability, which is its own mechanic
See above. That's the reason tying it to a stat is stupid. It's a basic game mechanic.
>Rolling is a mechanic, and the iframes are the stat
Rolling was already limited by VIT and END. Now it's also limited by ADP, making it the only base mechanic that requires THREE stats to effectively use. ADP is redundant and pointless padding.

>>388598661
I-Frames make no sense. It's a dumb mechanic, and the game should have been balanced without it ever existing, like how DeS was balanced without Poise, and DaS was balanced around having it.

There is no intrinsic need for a roll to make you invincible. A meteor doing damage to you shouldn't be based on your timing, it should be based on whether or not a slab of molten rock literally makes contact with your body.

>>388598105
Shield efficacy is already tied to its stats, strength and endurance.

Rolls are marginally tied to vitality only if you plan to do anything other than rolling to defend.

These are not equal at all.

>>388598737
Good thing nobody outside the strawman you invented in your head has said that.

>>388598695
Still better than Dark Souls 2, where the whole game is essentially Dark Souls second half, but even worse in some areas.

>>388598695
I agree that the interconnected world pre-sen is a critical part of what makes Dark Souls 1 so much better than trash like 2 and 3, but let's be a little bit reasonable and admit Duke's Archives wasn't bad and New Londo Ruins was a great post-anor area made better by the fact that you can access it early.

>>388598756
>VIT and END
Half of the shit in the game is tied to VIT and END, you're making false equivalencies.

Bitch if you don't stop memeing I'm going to slap you. Present an argument.

>>388598118
DaS1 isn't completely unbearable because base mechanics aren't tied to stats. Fun gameplay styles are available to you right off the bat and scale nicely. Blocking and rolling are both equally viable for the entirety of the game, unlike DS2 where rolling is fucking garbage early on and blocking is complete trash later on.
>I got through the ame with no Adaptability
Some people like doing something other than chugging healing items every 5 seconds.

>>388598695
>Demon Ruins counts as a Post-O&S area
>The catacombs don't
I never understood this meme.

>>388598793
>Shield efficacy is already tied to its stats, strength and endurance.
Just like rolling efficacy is already tied to its stats, endurance and vitality.
>Rolls are marginally tied to vitality only if you plan to do anything other than rolling to defend.
Except vitality determines how effective your roll is.

>>388598883
You first. What does ADP add to the game other than forcing you to level it at the beginning?

>>388598952
>Except vitality determines how effective your roll is.
Do you mean adaptability? The roll stat?

If not, then what the FUCK are you talking about?

>>388598801
I've heard stuff like this countless times dude, though not here on /v/

>>388598912
Catacombs are supposed to be done before you ring both bells.

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>>388598912
>He doesn't kill Pinwheel as soon as he gets to Firelink Shrine

>>388580783
The video was like someone rationalizing getting fucked by a priest when they were a boy - "Oh I was a freak and loved it!".

Copy paste clone boss design was rationalized as well thought out, swarm monster encounters were interpreted as 'fun' and hobbygrade.

The commentator was likely raped as a child to think of ds2 like this.

>>388599000
You're not forced to use it. You can just go tank mode. Rolling should be an optional stat path. I didn't take it my first playthrough, I used greatshields.

>>388599016
Did you even fucking play the game? Vitality determines your equip load which is directly tied to your roll efficacy. Throwing on yet another stat on top of that is redundant and pointless, especially when said stat is an absolute requirement to level up unless you want to just facetank everything in the game and let your infinite healing items do all the work for you in this shitty babby slow faggot game.

>>388599124
Yeah man stop having fun just stand there tanking everything and healing constantly. That's so much fun. Just doing literally nothing but mashing attack and your infinite healing items. What a fun fucking game for babies.

>>388599052
>Supposed to
No
>>388599054
I did on NG+ before I realized that the area was actually way more dangerous than before because of the boosted stats.

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>>388599186
>I have to overlevel for Catacombs

>dude just vit gouge lmao
Dark Souls 2 contrarians, everyone.

>>388598392
Psst, have you considered that increasing your i-frames is a crutch?, Or that in case you do increase them, you are already accustomed to precise timings so the increase simply ensures you won't get hit if you are a little off?

Plus, having your i-window be more or less ample has little to do with you actually getting the frames down. Precission is a skill and it doesn't go away as your i-frames increase.

>>388599185
All Dark Souls 2 did was put rolling onto a stat path, instead of just GIVING it to the player. This made it MORE of an RPG, and you're complaining?

I bet you think Skyrim is better than Morrowind, too.

>>388598876
Can you get to New Londo without the Master Key beforehand and if so is it through the elevator in Darkroot Basin that leads you to Valley of Drakes?

Let's be real though no one doesn't pick the Master Key.

>>388599274
>I have to overlevel
No?

>>388599319
Rolling already was on a stat path with the END/VIT split.
>instead of just GIVING it to the player.
Yeah, how DARE an action game just GIVE you blocking, rolling, and healing. You should need to level up a stat for your estus to heal you, all shields should have half their blocking efficiency until you level your blocking stat, and all rolls should have zero iframes unless you level up a stat. Those mechanics should be literally unusable until you put points into a stat. Fuck action in our action RPG.

>>388599362
>I play Catacombs after Drake and Josh
>but I don't overlevel!

>>388598790
it doesn't need to make sense, it needs to be fun

removing iframes because it isn't """"""realisitic""""" isn't good reasoning for removing iframes

the idea of dodge timing; understanding the enemy's attack frames and your own iframes and properly incorporating that timing into muscle memory is a critical part of what makes Dark Souls combat satisfying

if you remove that; you're shifting away from mechanical skill/pattern recognition and moving more into pure positioning, where dark souls otherwise takes advantage of both

>>388599325
You can get to New Londo without the Master Key. You just take the elevator near the Firekeeper.
>>388599421
You're so supposed to do it after them and anyway I could say back to you
>I need 20 estus to beat O&S!

>>388599319
Skyrim is shit because the combat is just standing still tanking everything that you can't backpedal from chugging potions like Oblivion before it. Funny that you mention it since your defense of ADP is "you don't have to level it if you just stand still tanking everything you can't backpedal from and chugging lifegems".

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>>388599495
>You're so supposed to do it after them

>>388599325
yes, you can get to new londo immediately

the gate with the master key blocks off early access to valley of the drakes, not new londo

>>388599419
End/Vit is carry capacity, NOT rolling. Why do you keep memeing? Stop making false equivalencies or I'm going to fucking hit you. You can just play the game with no armor. There, VIT isn't a thing, and your precious I-Frames keep you from taking damage.

Now stop.

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Literally one of the only things about /v/ in 2017 that I'm happy about is how often people will rise to defend Dark Souls 2 rationally and with well reasoned arguments.

Not brag too hard, but I've been doing this since the initial Gen 7 release. It's been a rough road, especially during the SotFS era where people thought the upgraded version was even worse than the initial release.

>>388599574
>End/Vit is carry capacity,
Which DIRECTLY affects your rolling ability. In fact, it affects two things - movement speed and rolling ability, and nothing else.
>Stop making false equivalencies
They aren't false equivalencies. You're the one insisting that rolling is not a base game mechanic like blocking and estus.

>>388599495
>>388599571
Yeah that's right I was thinking of Blighttown, you need the Master Key to get to Blighttown from Firelink but you can get there by going through Darkroot Basin.

Yeah man FUCK asshoels who want their ARPG to be an ARPG. Dark Souls needs to become a turn-based series. DS2 was a huge leap towards that but From went full retard and focused more on action in later games, how lame.

>>388599559
90% of players did not do the Catacombs first and you're delusional if you believe this. Just like most people didn't do the optional hard path in Tales of Symphonia on their first playthrough. Not because it was some insurmountable hardcore challenge, but because they didn't know it was even an option.

>>388599559
Not him, but it's better to do it after Ornstein Smough because you can just do the tomb of giants directly afterwards.

>>388599625
Flying lava lake.

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You are now realizing that Dark Souls' world design was a fluke and that we'll never see a game with 3D level design as good as Undead Burg again.

>>388598952
>Just like rolling efficacy is already tied to its stats, endurance and vitality.
Endurance impacts every single thing you do in the game, so it only matters so much, being a base requirement for absolutely fucking everything.

Again, vitality only matters when you don't just roll through everything and carry a shield and some armor too.

Equipment load means jackshit towards rolling if you only got your weapon and some rags on.

>>388599317
weapons are a crutch
upgrading your weapons is a crutch
leveling is a crutch
dodging and iframes in general are a crutch

>you are already accustomed to precise timings
then why even have a stat that increases iframes? just remove it entirely and force you to play with the base iframe count

because now it's no longer about understanding the timing of each kind of roll, instead, as you're describing it, it's just a stat that allows you to be more sloppy with your timings

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>>388599753

>>388599625
>rationally and with well reasoned arguments.
That doesn't happen though. 90% of the arguments in this very thread are "rolling isn't a base mechanic because I said so and you're wrong".

Dark Souls 2 is liked the most only by contrarians. This is a long-established fact.

>>388580783
I'm five minutes into the video and he's already outed himself as an idiot.
>I'm not going to count humanity in DaS1 as a healing item because they're rare
Are you fucking kidding me?
I'll admit right now that I'm okay at souls games at best, but by the end of a run you should be swimming in the fucking things.
Finding them from corpses, winning any pvp fight will get you multiple humanities, and if you're really bad just kill some rats for a while because they drop buckets of them.

I absolutely use them as healing items, because what the fuck else am I going to do with them?

For lorefags: do you guys take ds3 as canon, or just think about ds1 lore as it's own thing?

>>388599680
the fact that you have these kinds of options and interconnectivity and that you have to think about and parse through how to map a way to get from point x to point y without going through point z is what makes you wish the other games weren't so shit

>>388599809
Yes that's right, you have to sacrifice a ton of protection (or at least it was a ton before the shitty patches DS2 received made armor useless) in order to roll effectively, which is why it didn't need its own stat. It's a base game mechanic that the game is balanced around; with it being tied to a stat, you are required to level that stat to play properly.

>>388599751
90% of players(you included) are fucking retarded. You get to the moonlight butterfly and get the divine ember right at the same time as the first bell. If you're such a slack jawed inbred mouthbreather that you couldn't piece together in your clinically retarded brain that a holy weapon would let you kill the skeletons that don't die to regular weapons, you deserve to have your balls fed to you.

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>>388599834
>"rolling isn't a base mechanic because I said so and you're wrong".
I've read most of this thread. It's all the right arguments. I'm sorry you're an entitled baby who doesn't want RPG mechanics getting in the way of his hardcore action game. Really, no sarcasm there. If you weren't an entitled baby and could enjoy an ARPG for RPG aspects, you'd live in a world where Dark Souls 2 is a great game.

I want that for you.

>Dark Souls 2 is liked the most only by contrarians. This is a long-established fact.
Argumentum Ad Populum

>>388600025
> I'm sorry you're an entitled baby who doesn't want RPG mechanics getting in the way of his hardcore action game. Really, no sarcasm there. If you weren't an entitled baby and could enjoy an ARPG for RPG aspects, you'd live in a world where Dark Souls 2 is a great game.

Are these the rational and well reasoned arguments you were talking about?

>>388585303
>Why should the player get full i-frames with no investment?
Because that's how it was in the two previous games and changing it so dramatically was unnecessary? They should have tied i-frames to equip load, not a main stat.

>>388599956
Yeah no other 3D world has really clicked as well as Dark Souls' has (at least up until Sen's Fortress(, it's really fucking amazing.

Want to kill Quelaag first? Go for it.
Want to kill Pinwheel first? Go for it.
Want to skip Capra Demon and Gaping Dragon? Go for it.
Want to kill Sif early on? Go for it.
Want to kill Moonlight Butterly early on? Go for it.

Undead Burg and Painted World as individual levels are also genius, the way that they manage to loop the player around one central bonfire is amazing. When I first kicked down the ladder from Parish and ended back up at the bonfire in Undead Burg my mind was blown. I wonder how much of the team from Dark Souls I worked on III because III's level design pales in comparison.

>>388600025
>If you weren't an entitled baby and could enjoy an ARPG for RPG aspects, you'd live in a world where Dark Souls 2 is a great game.
Sorry I want my ARPG to be an ARPG and not a turn-based game. I'm not asking for the game to be fucking Ys, I'm asking for it to be a fucking ARPG instead of Oblivion and Skyrim.
>Argumentum Ad Populum
But then I would be defending DS2, since contrarians make up the biggest portion of this board.

>>388600081
Not him, but there are plenty of arguments, GOOD arguments in this thread, completely brushed off by baseless non-refutations like saying that carrying weight is a stat for rolling, even though it also affects stamina consumption, regeneration, running, and jumping.

But no, it's a ROLLING stat.

>>388599968
Now that I think about it, you might be right since you can get the Darkmoon Seance Ring in there. It is kind of funny how if it was intended to go there after Moonlight, pretty much no one did.

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>>388600081
No.

I don't need to do it this time. Rephrasing what others already put forth would be dumb and irrelevant.

>>388600081
No, they're pure contrarianism, the only thing you should EVER expect from a Dark Souls 2 fanboy. Notice how they STILL insist the game should be like Skyrim and shouldn't have any action elements in spite of being an ARPG.

>>388600215
Name one argument in favor of ADP other than "ADP is good because I said so" or "there's nothing wrong with ADP (without listing anything right with ADP)"
One argument.

>>388600220
Well yeah, because rephrasing dumb irrelevant non-arguments that are simply "because I said so" is always pointless. Want to make any real arguments so that your statement is correct and isn't referring to a slew of "because I said so" arguments?
My favorite "argument" was that if you don't like ADP you want the game to be like Skyrim, even though playing the game without ADP is identical to Skyrim's gameplay.

>>388600025
some rpg mechanics blend wonderfully with action oriented combat depending on the game and how its handled

some do not

would you be happy if dark souls had a stat that gave a % change that a swing would just completely miss? unless you're retarded, you would think this is a terrible idea because it's at complete odds with the combat system and the real time flow of events

playing around with the player's best means of mitigating damage and making it transition linearly instead of by breakpoint when it closely relates to muscle memory is poor design

>>388600220
Your life is dumb and irrelevant.

>>388600505
That's wrong because ADP is a good stat because rolling NEEDED a stat tied to it. Everyone agrees that the problem with DeS and DaS, the main issue at their core, was the lack of a stat for rolling.

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>>388598876

>trash like 2 and 3
>3

You must be one of those "it's bad because it didn't wow me like the first one did when I was 14" people.

>>388600771
That should have been obvious when his statement was "muh metroidvania"

>>388600647

>Everyone agrees

No. They don't. Claiming that is ridiculous. If anyone made that argument, they certainly didn't make it on /v/.

That aside, that's STILL not a fucking argument.

>>388600647
>Everyone agrees that the problem was the lack of a stat for rolling
you mean every fucking retarded DaS2 baby

the rest of the board can appreciate how rolling is handled in DeS and DaS1 as one of the highlights of the games

Rolling already had a stat intertwined with it and it was equipload. I've already explained why going by breakpoint when dealing with muscle memory is the not retarded way to go compared to slow linear increase.

The breakpoint system also allowed for stat optimization which was an addicting part of the game in and of itself.

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>>388600771
>Linear world design due to teleportation unlocked from the start so level designers didn't have to make an interconnected world or any good individual levels like Undead Burg or Painted World
>No weapon degradation which frowns upon trying out new weapons and removes a use for spending Souls
>Worst PvP in the series
>Stamina management is now non existent
>Only good bosses are Nameless King and Dancer of the Boreal Valley
>Feels the need to shoehorn in references to the past games and can't stand on its own two feet
>Doesn't implement new enemy placement on NG+ like DaS II did
Name one (1) good thing about DaS III.

>>388600929
Just look at this thread. There are a lot of people saying ADP is good so it must be good. I also say it's good, and I'm right because I like a game that's widely criticized, which makes me intellectually superior to the members of the unwashed horde like you.

>>388600881
>>388600771
yeah, because 3 is the most linear in the series by a landslide

it's even a worse offender than 2

>>388600940
>stat optimization
Ah yes, too bad even without ADP that wouldn't be a thing since DS2 completely and
utterly fucked it by completely eliminating SL as a requirement in multiplayer outside the shitty dueling system.

>>388601018
DS1 also had the worst level design in the series and "muh metroidvania world" didn't save this.

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>>388601063
(You)

>>388599818
>then why even have a stat that increases iframes?
Because some people do need crutches. Most people aren't perfect either. Its nice not being punished too much if you get a bit sloppy.

MH is a good example of this. You've got your natural i-frames and you can roll through everything with them no problem. However its notably harder than in Dark Souls. One of the weapons, the Switch Axe, is all about dodging and punishing relentlessly, and you can use it without any evasion skills, but its much easier to roll through hard to dodge attacks if you've got the evasion+1 skill.

What I mean is, in theory you don't need increased i-frames. In practice, its nice to have a way to increase them

>>388582869
This game feels like shit to play, that's all there is to it. 1 is vastly superior and feels more grounded.

>>388601063
interconnectivity is what makes the level design shine

you have objectively shit taste

>>388601153
You mean it makes up for the boring, short, awful levels with horribly lazy enemy placement.
>>388601101
Interconnected dogshit is still dogshit.

>>388580783
Why does Dark Souls 2 feel like such ass? Feels like your character is on ice compared to 1 and is barely connected to the floor.

>>388596702
Defend a fun boss?

>>388600196
>But then I would be defending DS2, since contrarians make up the biggest portion of this board.
Considering how well recieved DaS2 was on release, and how much it was right up until that Matosis vid full of footage of him fumbling around and getting his shit pushed in, I'd actually say it's more likely that shitters, DaS1 players that couldn't adapt, and casuals that love DaS3's style of combat all rally together to be loud and retarded, because none of them actually want to take the time to be good at DaS2, it's easier just to bitch and call foul.

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>>388601290
>Considering how well recieved DaS2 was on release,
>DaS2
>well-received on release

>>388601229
anything before anor is miles ahead of the collective effort put into 2 or 3's level design

>>388601229
>with horribly lazy enemy placement.
Are you talking about II where you can literally spawn at a bonfire and already be taking damage from archers or how every hallway just throws a bunch of multiples at you?

Dark Souls world design is game design kino and it's telling that no other game has even come close to living up to it, you start with the Master Key and that game is incredibly open without feeling overwhelming.

>>388601290
>it's good because it's hard!
he says, about the second easiest game in the series by a country mile.

>>388601290
>considering how well recieved DaS2 was on release

that is some serious historical revisionism

since release it has been the most hated game in the series to date

>>388601352
No I'm not talking about II which has even worse enemy placement than DS1 in spite of dropping the interconnected world shit in the most half-assed way possible.

>>388601338
In terms of interconnectivity and nonlinearity, yes, in terms of the designs of the actual levels themselves in a vacuum, not even remotely.

>>388600971

You're so far up your own ass you even did the greentext for me!

>Linear world design due to teleportation unlocked from the start so level designers didn't have to make an interconnected world or any good individual levels like Undead Burg or Painted World

Sure is a loaded argument, anon. I'd concede that it lacked the interconnectivity (and accidental shortcuts) of Undead Berg, but the overall progression of levels is logical, sensible and tells the game's story adequately.

>No weapon degradation which frowns upon trying out new weapons and removes a use for spending Souls

Weapon degradation was never a big part of the first game, anon. You basically had to be playing blind and not know where the next bonfire was to have any issues.

>Worst PvP in the series

The first game's PvP was worse.

>Stamina management is now non existent

Someone played a meme build!

>Only good bosses are Nameless King and Dancer of the Boreal Valley

It's matter of taste. I think the Dancer is a shitty boss considering all you need to do to beat her is stand behind her and to the right. It had a few other fun, interesting bosses - but I clearly liked the game.

>Feels the need to shoehorn in references to the past games and can't stand on its own two feet

Nigga what is a sequel? It's a more direct continuation of the 1st game's mythos, takes place in the same world - you name it. Dark Souls 2 needlessly shoehorned in references to the first game - especially considering it didn't occur in the same location.

>Doesn't implement new enemy placement on NG+ like DaS II did

Legit. Could use a bit of fleshing out in NG+.

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>>388601334
>>388601416
HIGHEST
RATED

>>388599958
You have it backwards. Rolling is so superior to blocking or just tanking damage you are actually gaining protection. Infinite protection, as long as you don't screw up.

The game was not balanced around rolling, since rolling could potentially trivialize the whole game.

In fact, Adaptability forces you to play somewhat properly, letting you still dodge it all while cutting your damage a bit by taling the excess points you would otherwise have from not investing in Vigor or Vitality.

>>388601529
by game journalists

lowest rated by people who actually play video games as noted by user scores

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>>388601529
lol

>>388601101
God this game is tiny compared to the others

>>388601018

No one is claiming its level design is better than the first game. It's level design does the job. It's about as linear as DS2, but actually makes sense and has logical progression

>>388601678
>It's about as linear as DS2
3 is much more linear than 2

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>Quelaag's Domain bonfire
>walk 10 metres for another bonfire
>fight terrible boss
>walk along linear path and fight rehashed, arbitrarily placed Capra demons and Taurus Demons
>another bonfire
>walk along linear path and fight rehashed Stray Demon boss for the third time
>another bonfire
>activate shortcut which loops back to a previous bonfire
>walk along linear path to fight Centipede Demon
>another bonfire
>linear path with no obstacles leads to yet another (hidden) bonfire
>continue along linear path to fight the worst boss ever created in a video game

Dark Souls "level design" everybody.

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What went wrong?

>>388600097
>changing it so dramatically was unnecessary?
Says you. I say otherwise.

>They should have tied i-frames to equip load, not a main stat.
It has always been that way, but it doesn't work because people that dodge simply don't need armor.

>>388601742

It really isn't, anon. Dark Souls 2 literally has a gate that bars your progress until you kill some shitty bosses or grind a lot.

In 3, you can off the Dancer and get to Lothric Castle in the first 20 minutes.

>>388601597
>Rolling is so superior to blocking or just tanking damage you are actually gaining protection
Rolling also requires sacrificing significantly more uptime than blocking, and requires a loss of uptime vs. no uptime lost by tanking damage.
It also poses the biggest risk, because if you whiff the roll, you take increased damage, you lose the most uptime, and you gain nothing. Conversely, an unsuccessful block means taking slightly more damage than you normally would or in some cases less damage, with significantly less uptime lost.
Rolling is the highest risk, lowest reward.
Blocking has a lower risk, with a lower reward.
Tanking requires the highest investment, but gives the biggest reward. In fact, facetanking is completely broken in DS2 due to infinite healing, while in DS1 it only became broken later in the game when upgrades to armor were more plentiful.
>the game was not balanced around rolling
This is false.

>>388601529
You do realise that journos hated DeS initially and only got on the bandwagon after the US release?
DaS2 was guaranteed high scores due to "hardest game ever" memes.

>>388601845
Contractual obligations to Namco Bandai. They didn't want to make this game.

>>388601151
Well, that's just your opinion. I can respect it, but don't ask me to accept it.

>>388601376
>It's so easy!
>But muh ADP needs to be at 20+ or it's shit!
>Why are the parry windows so fucked!?
>But muh gank squads are so unfair.
Most of the complaints are from people that are bitching are ding so because they're shit at the game.

>>388601334
>>388601416
>that is some serious historical revisionism
It really isn't. A lot of people liked exploring a completely new world that was separate from DaS1's, and the way it seemed to take place an eternity later was also well-liked.

>since release it has been the most hated game in the series to date
Only contrarians think this.

You faggots have an incredibly selective memory whenever you need to push an argument.

>>388602114

That pretty much sums up the entire thread.

>>388602317

>A lot of people liked exploring a completely new world

I'm sure they would have, but most people were pissed off at the half-assed references to the 1sr game that just made it seem like a poorly conceived rehash.

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>>388602317
DaS II is definitely the most hated though, ask any random fan of the series to rank the games and there is a high chance II will be dead last.

>>388602317
It's easy because you have infinite fucking healing items you fucking retard. So in a game where rolling is already pointless because you can just tank everything with literally no consequence, rolling is made even more pointless by taking away its only advantage (less healing intensivity when properly executed). So essentially rolling went from the highest risk with the biggest reward to the highest risk with the lowest reward.
>most of the complaints are shitters hue hue hue
Nice "argument" faggot.

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>>388602317
>It really isn't.

>point of an ARPG is that lack of stats/equipment can be mitigated by mechanical skill and vice-versa
>DS2 completely does away with this requiring stats for everything
>dude this is a good change it's more like Skyrim the best game ever now

>>388602428
>I'm sure they would have, but most people were pissed off at the half-assed references to the 1sr game that just made it seem like a poorly conceived rehash.
Those people must've been in for a huge disappointment with DaS3 then, holy shit.

>>388602468
Considering how much it has been getting defended on this very board, that seems unlikely. Rather, it's more likely that you're just projecting your belief as a general consensus so you can validate it.

>>388602476
>It's easy because you have infinite fucking healing items you fucking retard.
How many times do people actually run out of Estus in these games? For me it's a handful at most in each playthrough, if even that at later points in the game.

If you want to blow tens of thousands of souls on Lifegem spam, have at it I guess.

>So essentially rolling went from the highest risk with the biggest reward to the highest risk with the lowest reward.
That's some retarded logic you got there friend.

>>388602317
I remember release.

Most people were outraged that the lighting was turned off after it worked just fine on the network test, they were upset with how fucking terrible soul memory was, made even worse by limiting respawning enemies that required your soul memory to get even more bloated to farm. No one could even understand why it existed outside of NG. Most people hated soul gems. Most people thought adaptability was fucking dreadful garbage after being accustomed to Dark Souls 1.


The game was almost universally acclaimed as a dumpster fire on release by /v/.

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>>388602724
I like II but it and III are definitely seen as the weakest ones.

>>388602724
>That's some retarded logic you got there friend.
That's a retarded "argument" you've got there friend.

>>388602724
>Those people must've been in for a huge disappointment with DaS3 then, holy shit.

They sure were. Which is why 3 is the second worse game next to 2.

>>388602724

>Those people must've been in for a huge disappointment with DaS3

You're trying to be a sophist and failing. Who does that?

Maybe if they were dumb. But, given that DaS3 takes place in the same world as DaS1, it makes a lot more sense to have references.

There's simply no excuse for it in DaS2, and you're thinly veiled attempt at misdirection doesn't change that.

>>388601918
>Rolling is the highest risk, lowest reward.
>In fact, facetanking is completely broken in DS2 due to infinite healing
I would bother arguing these points but this joint ain't smoking itself.
Peace out and see your asses next DSII thread.

>>388603004
Bring an argument next time.

Central yharnam is significantly better than undead burg

>>388603112

This is a true statement of fact.

>>388603112
All of BB is significantly better than the rest of the Souls games aside from Chalice Dungeons

>>388603207
Definitely not in terms of bosses, the base game's bosses are by and large trash.

>Witch of Hemwick
>Micolash
>One Reborn
>Darkbeast Paarl
>Celestial Emissary
>Rom

>>388603278
BB has the lowest percentage of trash bosses.

>>388602779
>I remember release.
Selectively remember, maybe. The game had a ton of defenders here that were immediately quashed once mathewwhatever that eceleb's name is posted that video.

Despite how much hate it seemed to get here the community for DaS2 was alive and well everywhere else, especially within the game itself, right up until DaS3 released. The only real problem was that there were two versions of the game that split it down the middle.

>>388602890
>Which is why 3 is the second worse game next to 2.
I like all three (four) games a lot, but DaS3 has too many gimmicky bosses, and the undead settlement enemies get reused far too much for me to consider it better than DaS2.

>>388602898
DaS2's references to DaS1 aren't that egregious, so I have no idea what you're talking about. They few things it references are usually "lost to time" blurbs to help explain why something from DaS1 is even in DaS2.

>>388603278
The lions share of DaS bosses are garbage in general though. It's the standout fights that help make the game.

>>388603393
Every boss I just listed is bottom of the barrel garbage though even something like Moonlight Butterfly is still a better fight than Micolash or Witch of Hemwick and the only really good ones are Logarius, Gascoigne, Gehrman and Ebrietas. Without Old Hunters Bloodborne is an 8/10 but like with Dark Souls the DLC bumps the base game up to a 10/10 because the bosses are so good.

>>388601918
>>388603004
Ah, whatever, I'll do it.

Rolling is highest reward because its not about uptime, its about the extreme min-maxing you can do when you lean on rolls for everything. It gets pretty fucking silly. Sure, you can and will get killed easily a few times, but you can end up one-shotting bosses and all other enemies very easily.

Plus, Dark Souls PVE isn't about DpS, but rather burst damage.

Infinite healing refers to lifegems right?, I invite you to try and facetank anything in either PvE or PvP with lifegems as your main healing option.

There are two situations where lifegems are decent, to heal yourself after a fight when short on Estus and when playing a nimble character (not a tank) you receive some damage and want a quick fix.

You'll find that lifegem healing is very much insuficient if you plan on tanking. I would know, I play one. Nimbles on the other hand can avoid receiving damage for long enough that the healing actually matters.

>>388603207
I agree somewhat, Bloodborne is my personal favourite, it has the best bosses in both quality and quantity, and best lore, reaserch hall was tower of lautria tier ect. but it was really lacking in content and the second part of the forest was absolutely shit tier with those boring snake enemies that come out of nowhere and are never explained, bygenwerth being non existant, and the climax of the game consisting of re used mobs

>>388603278
>Ceaseless Discharge
>Firesage Demon
>Stray Demon
>Bed of Chaos
>fire caterpillar
>Seathe
>moonlight moth
>Capra Demon
>Taurus Demon
>Pinwheel
>if Micolash is a shit boss then so is Priscilla
DS1 wasn't that good in that regard either.I could do the same with DeS and DS2/3

>paarl
>bad
why lie?

>>388603745
>>388603278

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>>388603745
>R1 spam on legs
>Boss can't do anything
Do elaborate on how this is a good """"""""fight"""""""".

>>388603558
>Rolling is highest reward because its not about uptime, its about the extreme min-maxing you can do when you lean on rolls for everything. It gets pretty fucking silly. Sure, you can and will get killed easily a few times, but you can end up one-shotting bosses and all other enemies very easily.
Rollling is also the highest mechanical skill requirement of the mitigation options in the game which is why it gives the biggest reward. It's a longstanding tenet of action RPGs that mechanical skill should be able to make up for poor stats and equipment and vice-versa.
>Plus, Dark Souls PVE isn't about DpS, but rather burst damage.
4kings says hi.
>Infinite healing refers to lifegems right?, I invite you to try and facetank anything in either PvE or PvP with lifegems as your main healing option.
You know they stack right? And if you play a tanky character, you don't have to worry about getting hit while popping one, right?
>You'll find that lifegem healing is very much insuficient if you plan on tanking
It worked fine when I played as a tanky character with low agility, which was also the most boring playthrough of DS2 I've ever had.

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What are /v/'s honest thoughts on Nito?

>>388603809
But he can do plenty, you sound like you waited until you were overpowered to fight him then stunned him with one combo

>>388603278
>Last Giant
>Executioner's Chariot
>Skeleton Kings
>Flexile Sentry (so shitt the vast majority of people don't even know about the fight's main gimmick)
>Belfry Gargoyles
>Ruin Sentinels
>small rat
>big rat
>Duke's Dear Freja
>Mytha
>The Rotten
>literally recycling Ornstein
>Jabba the Hut
>Cooler Ranch Smelter
>literally 3 NPCs except they can roll cancel everything lmao
>Iron King
>Guardian Dragon
>Dragonrider
>Dragonriders
>lmao 2cat
>Prowling Trash Mob and the Trash Mobs
>Giant Lord
>Nashandra (literally the final boss before the remake)
DS2 pretty much consists almost entirely of shit bosses.

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>>388604095
I've fought him both at the end and when I first got to Cathedral Ward and got abducted, as long as you hug his feet he poses very little of a threat. It's just not a very good fight when compared to something like Logarius or even Ebrietas.

>>388604226
Now i know youre retarded or trolling, not only did you just described every souls boss, paarl is easy when you stick to his feet, logarious is easy if you stick to him like glue, defiled hot dog is easy when you stay infront of him, orphan phase 1 is easy from the left, then phase 2 right, but your example ebritas specificly suffers from the same problem to a much more severe degree than paarl does

>>388603974
Cool design, shit fight.

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>>388604697
Logarius is far more mobile than Paarl and when you're at a distance from him he'll zone you with a bunch of ranged attacks. Ebrietas is beaten similarly where you can just hug her but she has a far more versatile moveset with a grab, headsmash, two tentacle swing and a Call Beyond just off the top of my head and she also rotates around a lot faster meaning you can't stick to her weak spot as easily as you can Paarl. You also can't chain incapacitate her as easily as you can Paarl.

Paarl is just a trash fight with nothing interesting about it.

>>388603894
>Rollling is also the highest mechanical skill requirement of the mitigation options in the game
And also the lowest stat requirement by a long shot, and see, high mechanical skill leads to fantastic stats since you can ignore a bunch. That's why Adaptability is fine. Because it lets you still have great stats, just not completelyoffthe hook, which could get annoying, specially in PvP.

>4kings says hi.
Manhunters and Gargoyles also do it but its a very small minority of the fights.

>You know they stack right? And if you play a tanky character, you don't have to worry about getting hit while popping one, right?
Its still an overall terrible, janky strategy. By the time you pop the third gem players or bosses have already iced you.

Overall, if you can ignore hits you are better off chugging estus because the healing is way faster. How much estus could you possibly need?

>It worked fine when I played as a tanky character with low agility, which was also the most boring playthrough of DS2 I've ever had.
I can imagine if you block only. You should have invested in a little magic, the attunement would have really helped you and some faith would have given you Great Magic barrier and some great heals. Also they may have nerfed the lightning spears, but faith damage is still one of the best in the game, Lightning Weapon is still great.

More than ever, Dark Souls 2 punished min maxing and pushed for carefully balanced characters, which meant everything was viable, even Miracle builds. That's what was so great about this game's stat system and made the PvP so much fun for me.

>>388591009
The best level FROM has made is either cainhurst or fishing Hamlet.

>>388604209
>2cat
Can not be fucked to fight this boss ever given the horsies and area they're behind.

>>388605384
Get real, its Boletaria Castle or the Storm Lands.

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>>388605384
>>388605550
It's Undead Burg, Painted World and Central Yharnam.

>>388605373
>And also the lowest stat requirement by a long shot
Wrong
>PvP
Are you seriously going to bring PvP into this? You are gimped if you don't level ADP in PvP. If you bring PvP in because ADP is even more stupid because it's an absolute must-have 1000000% level or die stat even more than literally any other stat in the entire game.
>bosses have already iced you
If you're facetanking things you can pop gems all day and bosses will never chunk down your HP with how fast it will refill. In fact you can just substitute popping gems for rolling and you'll be at an even bigger advantage than agile characters because every attack becomes a free heal.
>I can imagine if you block only
This was without a shield since it was a heavy weapons character.
>Dark Souls 2 punished min maxing and pushed for carefully balanced characters
No, it pushed for you to level ADP to have fun with the game, especially if you want to throw PvP in the mix. Min/maxing was irrelevant in the game because of the abomination that was Soul Memory anyway.
>PvPing without ADP
Every fucking time. EVERY fucking contrarian that defends DS2 resorts to "muh PvP" then uses retarded arguments that demonstrate they never played PvP in it after the first week.

>>388580783
No, he wasn't right for defending the game because it never needed defending. The actual Souls fanbase loved it, which is evident from the Steam ratings, that cannot be bombed or bought like any other ratings, and the overly vocal, yet completely irrelevant, since they constitute only a small minority of the Souls fanbase, Miyacucki cultists will never be persuaded by any facts or arguments.

Everyone with half a brain always knew the game was good and was pretty much the best game in the series. Let the Miyacucki cultists wallow in their filth and ignorance, it's not like they can change the ratings that reflect the consensus of the fanbase.

>>388580783
DSII is OBJECTIVELY shit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2642mAJQm0Y
When the guy that did the guide tell you the game is a turd , then IT IS a turd.

>>388603974
He's Neato.

>>388605465
Can you imagine doing that area on release and expecting some great reward only to get a bunch of shit loot and be rewarded with a boss that's literally a copypaste of a boss you just fucking fought an hour ago? I mean after 3 NPCs and Cooler Ranch I had low expectations of the optional boss but recycling a boss FROM THE SAME FUCKING DLC was just a whole new level of laziness.

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>>388605632
>Miyacucki cultists
Holy fuck this shouldn't have made me laugh as hard as it did.

>>388605632
>lowest user rating of any Souls game
yeah the fanbase fucking loved ti

>>388604702
>He didn't use a fire weapon on Nito and kill the skeletons with a divine weapon

>>388595226
But DaS2 is incredibly generous with levels? You can be level 60-70 after Bastille, and around 100 when you get to Vendricks Castle. After DLC, 130-140.

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>>388605632
>>388605706
kek, ds2 fanboys always say something like that when anyone say anything bad about ds2

>>388605854
Level is literally 100% irrelevant in DS2 so yeah, it has that going, never mind that it's a symptom of another garbage mechanic of the game (soul memory).

>>388605797
this doesn't make the fight not be shit dude just makes it easier but it's still shit, and it's specially disappointing since he is one of the four lords

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>>388605859
Wasn't Miyazaki a supervisor on the project anyways?

>>388605925
The worst part is, he's the best of the four fights to get a Lord's Soul for.

>>388581105
He talking about the fag HBOMBERGUY
he's a fag who thinks DS 2 is better than DS 1 and is also a ugly beta cuck who thinks women are constantly being harassed and objectified by men. From this we can tell he's probably can't get laid and will soon join all the other male feminist as a rapist